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FreeBSD Looking for People with Lots of RAM
drdink writes "A few weeks ago, PAE (Physical Address Extension)
support was added to FreeBSD 5-CURRENT. This
allows memory above 4GB to be used normally by the kernel and userland
on the x86 platform. Jake Burkholder, the man
behind PAE, is now looking for users to help
him test this new feature. In his message to
the freebsd-current mailing list, Jake describes
the current caveats to PAE and also says
'We'd like this feature to be solid for
5.1-RELEASE, so I'm hoping there are people out
there with systems with more than 4G of ram that
are willing to test it.' This, along with other features
make FreeBSD 5-STABLE look very promising."
then i'd be far, far closer... if only i had.. well.. any money at all
--Less Thinkin', More Drinkin'...
Hmm, maybe between all these PCs and consoles and portable devices... hold on, HOLD yourself now, I'm getting there, just don't make me lose count....
MY dilemma is I have a lot of Ram but half of it is flakey!!! so I just tell linux to skip over it. It's really like having a regular amount of good ram. Hey, can BSD map my bad ram out too? Anyone?
Think of the size of the RAMDISK I could have with 4GB+! Goodbye swap space, hello disk space!
I have an HP LXR 8500 with four processors (currently) and 4GB of ram. I've been considering upgrading to 6GB for a while anyway. I'm currently using Windows 2000 advanced server on it, after being somewhat frustrated with Linux support a couple of years ago. I'd be more than willing to try out BSD, although I never have before. Is there anything I should know about this? I presume that BSD would run Mathematica fine under Linux emulation mode, as my main use of the box is just Mathematica crunching. Does FreeBSD make reasonable use of four processors? Anything else I should beware of? And anyone know a good source for cheap lxr-ready ram?
I've had this sig for three days.
Hrm.
.iso's or whatever you'll need to prepare to install your OS.
1) Go to pricewatch or e-bay and buy a server that can hold greater than or equal to 4gb... and buy the RAM while you're at it.
2) While waiting to ship - download the
3) Server and RAM arrive! Snap RAM into server - take existing machine, put aside - plug KVM into new server - fire up - install OS.
4) Test!
5) ?????
6) Profit!
[Connection closed by foreign host]
...slashdotting would be much more difficult.
Their test system with 6GB has 12 times the memory in my 512MB system (with maxed out RAM slots). Remind me again why 64-bit CPUs are needed...? ;)
Joking aside, it's very cool - is support for more than 4GB of memory a first for 32-bit x86 operating systems? I believe Windows NT is limited to 2GB because it keeps half of the 4GB address space for virtual memory / paging (is this right?). At the very least it will help in the interim before native 64-bit x86 machines are commonly available - both in terms of extending existing applications and porting over to "true" 64-bit compatibility.
I'm currently running a workstation with 12GB of RAM. Where do I sign up?
Specs:
Intel SHG2 board
Dual 3.06 XEON processors
12GB DDR266 memory
nVidia Quadro
480 GB hard drive space in a 4-way stripped array
My penis is normal size, thankyouverymuch.
How would you test that? I can't think of any easy way to actually test that much RAM. What would you do, load 8GB of random data into RAM and compare it byte-by-byte with the original data?
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
sits an unused 4x700MHz Xeon, 2MB cache. 4GB RAM (can go to 16 I think). I don't know if I have the proper RAM densities to go beyond 4GB without throwing RAM away first.
I've worked at shops that had mid range enterprise class Sun servers with 8 CPU and oh 16Gb of ram. Telco's and financial companies often have high end Solaris E10K with 24 CPU's and 20Gb+ of ram on several boxes. Yeah, it costs millions, but sometimes there's no other way.
From the office of Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf (aka Baghdad Bob):
"BSD isn't dead! The infidel Linux coaliation will soon pay the price for descriating BSD!"
More at 11.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Better yet, anyone know of a simple PCI board with nice standard DIMM slots and emulates a Drive? I don't care about battery backup, I just want to copy static data to it then run like the devil!
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
Buy me the extra RAM and I'll do it.
With apologies to Blake "buy me a Mac and I'll fix the bug" Ross (Mozilla bugs 75158, 76728, 77758, 81028, 88086, etc).
The shareholder is always right.
OK first off for those that insist that more than 4 gigs is only for server machnes scroll down a few stories and look at the 12 gig max 7505 chipset board. Now repeat after me if it hav an AGP slot it's not a server it's a workstation. Anyway can anybody think a good reason to run BSD with a pile of memory compared to say Linux????
No sir I dont like it.
Talk about a fucking bloated OS!? 4 gigs of RAM? Not even XP Pro requires that much memory!
You have to remember that if you were to do something similar to that, the memory would only run as fast as the PCI bus, which is usually limited to 33MHz... Now with that being said, if you were running a 33MHz bus for some memory, you would be running that bus for all memory. Hence, you would have a Pentium 100, at best, once again.
:(
Aren't we trying to achieve best speed and performance in this world? I mean, after all, RAM is what's making computers go faster now.
Of course if a gig of ram was needed, i could help out. My motherboard maxes out at 4 gigs though.
Guess I'll have to put to use our lab DL760 G2 machine. Has 2.5 GB currently, should be able to find another 2.5 gb for it (Raid 5 memory overhead and all).
How well does BSD work with Hyperthreading? The lab box has 4 HT enabled Xeons in it right now, and I could toss in another 4, resulting in 16 virtual CPUs.
It hurts 'n' stuff.
You don't need to be a telco to have a box of that class. I'm at a stockbroker at the moment.
/usr/platform/sun4u/sbin/prtdiag
/N0/SB0/P0 0 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB0/P1 1 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB0/P2 2 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB0/P3 3 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB1/P0 4 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.1 /N0/SB1/P1 5 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.1 /N0/SB1/P2 6 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.1 /N0/SB1/P3 7 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.1 /N0/SB2/P0 8 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB2/P1 9 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB2/P2 10 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB2/P3 11 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB3/P0 12 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB3/P1 13 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB3/P2 14 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB3/P3 15 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB4/P0 16 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB4/P1 17 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB4/P2 18 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB4/P3 19 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB5/P0 20 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB5/P1 21 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB5/P2 22 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 /N0/SB5/P3 23 900 8.0 US-III+ 2.3 ...and we've got two of 'em.
%
System Configuration: Sun Microsystems sun4u Sun Fire 6800
System clock frequency: 150 MHz
Memory size: 49152 Megabytes
= CPUs =
Port Run E$ CPU CPU
FRU Name ID MHz MB Impl. Mask
The most popular one I've seen is the "Cenatek Rocket Drive"
Find out about my new childrens book: SS Death Camp Criminal Batallion Go To Monte Carlo For The Massacre
My old ISP switched to FreeBSD from SunOS Sys V I believe, quite some years ago. Many others did as well.
:) the place is VISINET
... uhmm... red hat, debian and mandrake. Oh and as usual LinuxPPC/YellowDog 2.x on the mac.
Try looking up widomaker.com on any of the nmap spoof sites out there. Betcha you'll smile... they're running FreeBSD AND they are a significantly sizeable Hampton Roads ISP. I believe the MAJOR ISP in HR also uses BSD, but I'm not sure since I've not telnetted in for ages upon centuries (1997
I am too lazy at the moment and too drowsy to check it myself. But I know for a fact wilma.widomaker.com is STILL running some version of free_bsd (unless they changed again VERY recently).
BSD's a capable OS, I'm not much of a user because I do a lot more hacked together work often, and BSD only ran my old file server/ httpd rig. My home boxen ran a mix of
I'm going to ask?? Why are all you folks having such a Unix vs *nix vs BSD JIHAD?! If we are to compare ourselves to the arab world... Isn't microsoft our "evil west" and Bill Gates our "great satan" type figure?!? Jeez people, we're fighting each other so to speak, while Billy boy makes a killing and leaves us hanging. And I'll take my own advice here since I recently forgot it and got into a long argument (I hate getting sucked into politics). But, if we all coded more and flamed each other less, and if we helped out the newbies, I bet we'd start stealing from the REAL big user base out there... MICROSOFT's. If BSD dies its only ONE more corpse microsoft can have strewn over their Gates of Mordor. Linux didn't win that one. Gates did, and will. And who do you think is next?! Damn straight. Billy's gonna take us down one at a time. First the weaker ones... then the strong ones. And yes Linux is at the top of the OS food chain under Bill Gates own pet. We're all supposed to have a purpose. OSS. So get back to coding, thinking or designing something cool and stop flaming each other. I know its tempting, I couldn't resist it once or twice but I caught myself. If you do flame or troll, at least post some info, some resource links so we can check, and then get back to doing something fun or useful that doesn't piss off half the damn messageboard just for the sake of pissing them off. That's just immature and stupid. That IS why nobody pays attention to us. We're all a bunch of immature little kids in the bodies of adults screaming bloody murder upon Bill gates, george bush, osama bin laden and whoever wants to hear us. Too bad we're in a cave all of our own and they locked us in.
If BSD dies... let it die on its own. Gloating doesn't help anyone. Some people put a lot of effort in that project, and if you haven't you've no right to harp on them. If you never even USED BSD, then lay off until you have, and given it a very legitimate attempt to at least get the installer completed. Show some respect, just like Linux and even parts of windows, whether the ideas were stolen, litigated or created, they were STILL worked on by someone, usually someone brilliant. And until we each can surpass those people... whether in coding or marketing or design or even legalese, we need to shut the fuck up and show some respect. If you can't show some respect to those who gave us the nice toys we now use all the time and harp about, then perhaps you'd like to still be using punch cards!
So speaking of this, I'm getting back to my work. Try to do the same. And as for the individual who modded down that post describing the disillusionment with BSD, it makes much sense. Let it stand up, replace BSD with OSS and get on with it, because the problem facing BSD has nothing to do with good code or bad code. It has to do with the george bushes and saddam husseins of the OSS community Once they finish with BSD they'll move onto another project and tear that one apart as well. Just like slashdotte
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
And all this time I thought my 768 MB was a lot. ;/
No, Beowulf clusters can't imagine in Soviet Russia.
Why not use Memtestx86? I know it boots off a floppy most of the time, but there is no reason you couldn'y compile it natively under *BSD.
I wonder how long it would take to test all that RAM?
I know my first test would be to install Neverwinter Nights and/or Unreal Tournament 2003 into a RAM drive...
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
I've got lots of RAM in my HARD DRIVE, baby! Oh yeah! ...OK, it's out of my system. :-)
evil adrian
What a lot of people fail to realise is that the existing system is already optimal: slow, cheap storage, cached by fast, expensive storage. Except in the case of big file copies and such, things you don't often do on desktops, a single ATA drive with a gig of ram will Smoke a SCSI RAID system with a quarter gig. If you can afford fast disks and don't plan on doing frequent mass transfers, your money is better spent on RAM. For a desktop, that is.
"[A] high IQ is like a Jeep; you will still get stuck, just farther from help!" --Just d' FAQs, c.g.a
It seems that, 20 years later, we're back to doing essentially the same thing.
Best Buy can have you arrested
Looking at a full rack of DELL PowerEdge 2650s Dual Proc 2.8Ghz w/ 6 gigs of Ram and smiling. But they are already running Windows 2003 Enterprise Server. I wonder if the boss will let me take one of these $10,000 babies offline...YEA I WISH!
PAE never really excited me. I mean ... it's like EMM386, with 4GB instead of 1MB. It's a hack, and from what I hear (that is to say, what Will Irwin has said on LKML) PAE is fairly slow compared to regular memory, anyway. (And regular memory is already fairly slow compared to core CPU clock speeds, even with high-speed DDR.)
I won't say people don't do >4GB on x86, because obviously they do, but there are reasons not many people do. :3
Why do people say BSD is DEAD? Because people like you write fucking books about how somebody at home uses BSD or some FUCKING isp is running BSD and Apache. The point is NO ENTERPRISE HW manufacturer or Software for ENTERPRISE supports BSD, so it is a DEAD OS for the enterprise.
You walk into any company with more than a 1000 people and see what runs thier CRM, database or mail and it will be windows or linux on the intel platform or unix on one othe risc platforms, NOT BSD.
... finally a valid excuse to buy more ram :)
We've had this system for a couple years:
:)
bash-2.03$ uname -a ; prtconf | more
SunOS largo 5.8 Generic_108528-14 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-Enterprise
System Configuration: Sun Microsystems sun4u
Memory size: 10240 Megabytes
bash-2.03$ psrinfo
0 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:03
1 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
4 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
5 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
8 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
9 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
10 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
11 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
12 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
13 on-line since 03/10/03 13:25:07
Look ma.. no PAE.
bash-3.00$ uname -a
SunOS panda 5.10 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-2
... still every guy I know that runs his own webserver (Apache that is) runs it on FreeBSD or BSD kind of OS (OpenBSD, NetBSD, ect.). That there is no large enterprise running it is because they are mostly run by pencil geeks (aka managers) that only use large corporations (like IBM, MS, Oracle, ect.) simply because it has a name, support (who says OSS doesn' t have support???), buzzwords, ect.
would anyone want to waste an expensive machine on FreeBSD?
Seriously, this isn't trying to be flamebait... I think FreeBSD is a great OS, but it has been lagging behind in the hardware support department. If you buy a machine that can support more than 4Gb of ram, chances are the following statements are true:
FreeBSD has lost the battle... I'm not saying that it's dead, but noone in their right mind would run it on entireprise-class hardware.
Unless it is a x86 machine this is off topic.
Or you are just bragging, or you just dont understand why it only has a 60 GB HD. That HD is only for booting the machine(like an expensive floppy driv)e, For the real storeage you probably alredy have an san that containt all your terabytes of data.
I think this machine bas an powerpc cpu that alreay can run in 64 bit mode and adrress some terbyte of data.
To get more on topic....
if you had a beowulf cluster of these......Then you had bragging points.
Well, you have to have a graphic board at least to boot and set up the system, and all current boards are AGP, thus the AGP slot.
Enabling very large amounts of RAM in BSD makes BSD more useful as a server OS.
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
OSS support? Yeah , that'd be "RTFM luser". Jee , I wonder why big corporations don't go for that.
You probably never did use a good OSS with a large userbase. I did and they do give a lot of information and help. The response of the developers is sometimes even better than large corporations, depending on the OSS project ofcourse.
http://rick.vanrein.org/linux/badram/
;)
So far as I know, no BSD (well, doublecheck NetBSD) has implemented such a thing, probably mostly out of the 'treat your systems as you would production machines' attitude. So hey, use Linux on your box with bad RAM, and FreeBSD on your *good* hardware.
I hate to tell you, but FreeBSD "suffers" from a colored ls if you want it to. "ls -G" and you need xterm-color.
You can install FreeBSD on a headless PC quite easily.
You can upgrade Apples pretty easily these days. This includes the "older" G3s.
Ever hear of the PCI bus? Or AGP?
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
See, SPARC doesn't have that silly 4GB addressing limitation that IA-32 does. Running "without PAE" on a Sun box makes no sense because it's an "extension" that only x86 is afflicted with. I bet any of the free Unix-like systems would run fine on sane architectures with 10GB of RAM, too ...
USB is wire compatible with PS/2. Take apart a USB->PS/2 converter sometime: it's just wires, no IC's. Newer motherboards may have the PS/2 jacks connected directly into the USB subsystem.
I'm thinking you can count the number of PAE enabled "desktops" on one hand. :^)
What I'm talking about (and hopefully other folks on this thread) are servers, with admins who at least have some clue what they are doing (else they wouldn't be running BSD/Linux). I have a set of files that I need to search through very quickly, with a SLA attached to it. I need to ensure that this file remains in RAM, I don't want might nightly updatedb flushing the file out of cache, or any of a dozen other maintenance scripts that I don't give a rats ass about how slow they run, screwing this up and causing the next search to run 10x slower at best and giving a negative user experience, causing the system to fail its SLA, and my company losing beaucoup bucks.
We're not talking about a generic file server, where you have somewhat randomized access and you're far better off letting the OS do the caching (Its good at that stuff). I'm talking about systems like databases that are constantly reading data but there are some core indexes that you need to search FAST.
A little example. You have an application that has about 20GB of data, spread among 10 files. You read the first 4GB of data and most of it gets cached on your 4GB system. It then reads the 5th GB of data, flushing the 1st GB out of RAM. At the end of the search, you have the last 4GB or so cached. Now second search starts, and the last 4gb gets flushed to make room for the first 4GB, process repeats. The only time caching benefits you is when a second search is launched within the time it takes to search the first 4GB or so, so caching just isn't going to help unless there are some pretty damned advanced adaptive routines happening. So instead cache one of those files on a RAM disk, and you search time improves 10%; more if that file is access more than the rest.
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
You *do* realize that you're restating what I said, right?
The first thing I addressed (hardware testing) was in answer to the question "how do you test that much RAM" of the grandparent (which was *not* "how do you test support for that much RAM"). Then I mentioned that testing OS support would be a separate thing, involving malloc'ing pages in various sizes, forcing them to be paged around, and otherwise exercising the VM. Granted, hitting the corner cases may be a bit hard -- but for the common cases, that's nothing more than a few hours of C.
Give these guys some credit. They don't need volunteers to call malloc. They need real workloads.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Besides, if all they wanted was "a few hours' worth of C", they could do that themselves.
Sure, but to a VM subsystem, what *is* a real workload? A whole tremendous lot of mallocs, frees, and requests for pages (and funky stuff like marking big swaths of memory non-pagable and such, which most "real world" loads won't do but which is necessary to ensure that your kernel won't freak when it sees a corner case). Whether it's an application written to test the VM that does this or a "real" workload irrelevant -- to the VM, at least.
And if you don't have the hardware to run your test app's "few mallocs" on, it's not like you can just do it yourself.
Your excessive use of uppercase words and vulgar language seems to indicate that this is a sore subject with you. Does BSD offend you in some way? Do people who support BSD offend you? Does it bother you that bSD exists? Maybe you need to see some professional counselling to help you realize that it is just an operating system.
Beware, Nugget is watching... See?
Thankfully, FreeBSD has extensive documentation to refer to if you are told to RTFM. Otherwise, there are many people who would be happy to help. There are also many mailing lists to turn to when you find a bug or just have a problem or question.
Beware, Nugget is watching... See?
So how long will it take for this to filter into NetBSD? Oh, wait, I can't put 4GB of RAM in my SE/30 anyway...
Constitutionally Correct
Apple's OS/X Darwin kernel is a direct derivative of BSD.
The US Government just gave $2M USD to further the development of OpenBSD, because the government uses it extensively in places where Linux would not be secure enough.
Qwest uses it as a server platform in various places. I worked there, I saw it. They have a few more than 1000 people. I guess you could classify them as "an enterprise" type of company...
And IBM uses BSD, whether they openly sell it on their 'e-server' systems or not. I'm working here now, looking over at my BSD server... Hi, IBM BSD server! :)
Check your facts dude, you sound like an idiot. Just because Linux has permeated the Windows-weary waving the flag with "look at me, something new!" messages and all that, doesn't mean BSD has lost functionality or purpose.
I also own a small local ISP on the side. We are 100% *BSD based, and except for large patches/upgrades, my systems are rock solid and have never had a security incident. We colo a windows box for another small company there, I keep it firewalled off on it's own physical network because I don't trust it. Same goes for the Linux box we also colo.
Part of why Solaris is so popular as an enterprise system, is the lack of cruft. It doesn't hurt that the hardware is ridiculously fast too, but Solaris doesn't have directory trees 5 levels deep or all of the annoying shit I see in Linux now. BSD is the same way - everything is just "cleaner" IMO. The documentation is *great* compared to Linux, and the message lists are extremely responsive if you can't find it somewhere else.
BSD may not have the home user appeal, because it's not all fluffy and cute. It's designed to be fast, efficient, and reliable, without being everything to everyone. It takes a little more knowledge than how to navigate a GUI to get it going, but the rewards are worth it if you're a seasoned admin worth a sh!t.
In an effort to create market appeal, Linux has become bloated. It has added everything for everyone, and though it's easier to use, the intelligence required to admin it has dropped significantly, so that when an "experienced linux admin" comes across something hard, they're stuck. I see it traversing more into the user market, but it's moving into the arena of a "windows-like server that doesn't crash as much". For true hardcore servers, I do think there are better things you can use.
I just think it might be a tad naive to think you could hit all the important test scenarios with a simple special-purpose functional test using malloc (though that is important for other reasons). You would need to be very insightful indeed to think of every possible thing that could go wrong in the Real World.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
s/mild/subtle/g
Ha, you are elected the Marketing FUCKING IDIOT then for BSD, go baby, go baby, tell everyone how many people use BSD, maybe IBM will start supporting you.
Yea, like the end of my third member suck it off idiot
Ah, yea, let me send this over to Intel and Dell so they can wake up, oh shit I should send this to Oracle to right you DUMB FUICKING COCK sucker? BSD is DEAD!!!
OH damn, I am sorry you are right BSD of course is such a good thing that all of corporate America should really wake up, because the "Kinky Clown" on Slashdot said so. you fucking idiot, go back to your closet and fuck yourself with a lampost with BSD horns installed.
What are you fucks smoking? BSD ids DEAD because the the anonymous coward says so, fucking cuck suckers.
..of, oh, only TEN YEARS AGO, when I had to run a DOS extender (like DOS/4GW, anyone remember that?) to get at the boundless uncharted wilderness of RAM over 1 MB.. *chuckles*.. the more things change, the more they stay the same. Oh, and remember having to change your BIOS to access more than 64megs of RAM? Ha.
Just amazing, though, that standard memory configurations have exploded by a factor of a thousand in ten years.. I guess by 2013 we'll all be running machines with, oh, around 1-2 terabytes of RAM.. and complaining that Windows NBTTWP ("no bugs, this time, we promise") runs like shit..
That's why I said we need to all STOP that shit. If just myself or Bob down the street stop doing the "RTFM luser" shit, then hell yeah, we can't get allies in big places cuz we're "user friendly". But if some of the even MORE vocal types than myself become helpful... well remember that word of mouth advertising deal? It rocks. And it does work. Look at the business models (that work) that all accept the fact that word of mouth advertising works admirably, and exponentially.
:) It also means that since us USERS are also the tech support, then we get to represent what our OS means to us... I know I'm repeating what many feel, but I thought it needed being said one more time. Feel free to mod.
Having a great OS doesn't mean being user unfriendly. It just means we prefer to EDIT our entire system without depending on regedit.exe
-DaedalusHKX
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
No. not even close.
USB->PS/2 converts are just wires because the logic is in the mouse. This is why the USB->PS/2 converter you got with your mouse won't work with your keyboard.
Devices designed to be used with converters have logic in them to detect if they're being hooked to a USB port or a PS/2 port.
two of them? Aren't you special? Try working somewhere other than a Fortune >50000 company, and you'll see that that box is not only common, but small and underpowered.
After more research I found you are right. Thank you for the correction.