SonicBlue (Replay/Rio) Bought By D&M

An anonymous reader writes "Here's the announcement that many have been waiting for all week. Yesterday, the ReplayTV and Rio product lines of now-defunct SonicBlue were auctioned off in a bankruptcy court. Despite earlier negotiations failing to result in a deal, the Japanese holding company D&M, makers of high-end Denon and Marantz stereo gear, bought the product lines for $36.2 million. The big question is what about all of the "lifetime subscriptions" that people bought? No answers as of yet, but we can all be hopeful."

Comments

That's not much money

[Ignorant Aardvark]

Only $36.2 million? That's really not that much for an entire line of TiVO-like products. It sounds to me like D&M might make a killing off this investment, if they play their cards right.

Re:That's not much money

[levik]

Not neccesarily. Don't forget that SonicBlue already *HAD* these product lines, and still went under. These may not be all that commercially viable.

The PVR market is still high end, still small and already saturated.

Re:That's not much money

[Scyber]

Yes, but SB was already saddled with debt when they bought ReplayTV. Then they developed the newer 4k and 5k units. So they probably never got a chance to recoup there R& D costs

D&M already has a viable product design, they just need to keep the software updated.

Re:That's not much money

[Palshife]

Well, it was a bankruptcy auction. They usually start the bidding at 1 stick of Fruit Stripe gum at those things.

Re:That's not much money

[jonbrewer]

Only $36.2 million? That's really not that much for an entire line of TiVO-like products. It sounds to me like D&M might make a killing off this investment, if they play their cards right.

I'd agree, and add that just the brands "Rio" and "ReplayTV" are worth more than $36 million. D&M could make their money back by Christmas, simply by branding the cheapest MP3/PVR machines they can find with "Rio" and "ReplayTV" and selling them through discount chains like WalMart.

Re:That's not much money

[BTM1001]

In today's mega merger era, it seems low, but if you read the article it turns out to be even a better deal than D&M had offered SB recently. They were willing to buy it for 40 mil plus 5 in assumed debt a few months ago.

Hopefully this isn't a sign of massive global deflation - I need my job! /me knocks on wood
damn it's a plastic cubicle!

Re:That's not much money

[bripeace]

You can realize what they are up against when describing the category that one of their products is in bears the name of their biggest competator.. which btw isn't making a killing themselves.

Lifetime Support?

[fewnorms]

Heh, "...until death (or hostile takeovers, bankruptcy etc) do us part ...." =] So much for life time support I guess. However, Rio was a good brand a while back, so I hope the new company continues it's services.

Re:Lifetime Support?

[Shrike9]

If we could get DVRs w/o these sorry ass 'service' contracts we'd be much better off. I CAN program a VCR!!

Re:Lifetime Support?

[dirty]

All indications so far show that the support will continue as is for everyone. Pissing off the loyal users is a really bad way to make money. It's not at all uncommon for people to have 3 or 4 ReplayTVs all with life time subscriptions. This would hurt them a lot.

Re:Lifetime Support?

[The_K4]

HELL YEAH!

That's what i've been saying for a while. Then Panasonic came out with this puppy :)

Lifetime?

[Good Sumerian]

Lifetime support has always meant the lifetime of the company. They got what they paid for; it was a gamble, and, unfortunately, they lost.

Re:Lifetime?

[deanj]

Well, not necessarily. When ReplayTV got bought out, the company went away, and the assests went to SonicBlue. They honored the lifetime agreement for ReplayTV owners.

Re:Lifetime?

[sbuckhopper]

Lifetime support has always meant the lifetime of the company.

In the US that depends upon what state you live in and what their laws are. I was under the impression in NY that lifetime support meant for the lifetime of the product or 5 years.

By your definition if my product dies, gets lost, burned or whatever, if I still have proof of the service agreement and the company is still in business they would have to replace the product?

Re:Lifetime?

[91degrees]

By your definition if my product dies, gets lost, burned or whatever, if I still have proof of the service agreement and the company is still in business they would have to replace the product?

No. They just have to support it. Thjis does not mean they have to be sure the hardware works. Just the service.

Re:Lifetime?

[Zathrus]

Well, not necessarily. When ReplayTV got bought out, the company went away, and the assests went to SonicBlue. They honored the lifetime agreement for ReplayTV owners.

Yes, but lifetime subscriptions are not an asset - they are a liability. The press release doesn't go into any detail, but I'd presume that D&M got saddled with the liabilities (court cases, outstanding debts, and lifetime subscriptions) as well as gaining the assets.

This is why $36.4M is not a "deal" by the way... and it's why they went under in the first place. They have far more liabilities than assets at this time.

Re:Lifetime?

[ePhil_One]

Well, not necessarily. When ReplayTV got bought out, the company went away, and the assests went to SonicBlue. They honored the lifetime agreement for ReplayTV owners. Does anyone know for sure?

I admit I'm not that familiar with the product line, I use a DirecTiVo myself, but I thought ReplayTV's didn't use the subscription model that Tivo uses? I seem to recall folks using that as a reason to get a ReplayTV in place of a Tivo.

But D&M will likely maintain their agreements if they intend to continue the subscriptions if they intend to continue to produce the ReplayTV, this is not an area where the old adage "any press is good press" applies. Maintaining those subscriptions maintains an air of stability to the product, and the cost will likely be low, just connection charges, since they would be maintaining the databases anyway. But if they just wanted to get their hands on part of the tehnology, well then yeah, its game over.

Myself, I avoided the lifetime subscription on my Tivo when I found out it was for the life of my Tivo; man am I happy I didn't. At the time the lifetime cost about 2 years of service. But I bought a second unit, which would have doubled that; whereas the month to month rate covered both under DirecTV's terms. Then DirecTV dropped the rate to $5/month. So within about of year of getting the boxes, the lifetime sub cost jumped from 2 years of service to 10 years, and considering opportunity cost of that money it would likely be more like 20 years.

And as a worst case, Tivo's linux core means there's always going to be a way to keep it going :^)

Re:Lifetime?

[zsmooth]

I admit I'm not that familiar with the product line, I use a DirecTiVo myself, but I thought ReplayTV's didn't use the subscription model that Tivo uses? I seem to recall folks using that as a reason to get a ReplayTV in place of a Tivo.

When Replays first went on sale, the cost of a lifetime subscription was included with the unit, so they all cost like $500 or $600. Then they realized that Tivo's method was working better since a lot of people didn't want to put down that big a chunk of change all at once.

Re:Lifetime?

[BreadMan]

Says the article:

D&M Holdings said it bought inventory, receivables, intellectual property and capital equipment, and that it would also take over certain contractual relationships and liabilities.

I'm guessing that "certain contractual relationships" means customer agreements.

I don't see the business case of buying a hardware company that relies on subscriptions and then stiffing your subscribers. If you manage not to upset your subscribers, you have a good pool of people you can up-sell something to in the future. Plus, the nice word-of-mouth referrals will help pick-up business from new customers.

Re:Lifetime?

[sbuckhopper]

good point, I realized that it was a service being provided, not a service contract for hardware. of course that was after I posted.

Re:Lifetime?

[nojomofo]

Exactly. If they stiff me on my lifetime agreement, then I'm not going to buy another one from them or pay them monthly. In that case, I'm going out and buying a Tivo. Hopefully, they're smart enough to know that this sort of behavior wouldn't help them.

Re:Lifetime?

[haystor]

Quite clearly any use of the legal system to circumvent the lifetime services (which provide copyrighted materials) would be a violation of the DMCA.

Re:Lifetime?

[Wateshay]

They haven't made the money they can make from your next purchase down the road when you decide you'd like to upgrade to a newer model. Most people who buy Replay's, TiVo's, etc., are gadget people, and gadget people like new gadgets. There's no prestige or coolness factor in having a five year old gadget.

Re:Lifetime?

[Zathrus]

How do you write off a court case that may cost you millions?

Or debt to another company for services rendered (e.g. - whoever supplied Replay/SB with guide data)?

You can write off unpaid sales, but you can't write off things like that. In any country. In fact, under US law, if D&M was forgiven the debt by the guide company they are then liable for taxes on that unpaid debt - because it's considered the equivalent of free money.

Re:Lifetime?

[Zathrus]

I don't see the business case of buying a hardware company that relies on subscriptions and then stiffing your subscribers.

Think about it some more. The lifetime subscribers are a liability. You will not get anymore revenue from those boxes... by dumping them you will lose goodwill, but in the case of Replay (where it's something like 85% lifetime contracts) it may be determined that the cost of continued support for those subscribers is far greater than the ill will you'll generate by dumping them.

Personally, I agree - I think it'd be a stupid move since PVRs are still being sold largely by word of mouth - but it's definitely an option they have.

Re:Lifetime?

[JoeBuck]

Don't forget that they bought some assets through the bankruptcy court. The status of those "lifetime subscriptions" may be that they were treated as canceled debts.

Re:Lifetime?

[truesaer]

I bought my replay a while back when there was no such thing as a lifetime subscription, it was just a part of the service you got by buying the unit. In other words, though I don't recall exactly how it was phrased, I thought of my program data as something I was entitled to by buying the box, not by buying some kind of subscription.

A subtle point, but I"ll have to see if I have any info on my unit and how the program data worked. Probably don't have anything anymore...

Re:Lifetime?

[stevew]

How much does lifetime subscription service cost the company? (Not counting tech support which is MOSTLY just for getting things working the first time (and consequently not a recurring cost)).

Hmmm - for replay - there is phone subscriptions and net connections, there is the creation of the programming guide - that is about it.

So - you have recurring costs of supplying the guide data to the phone/internet connection. You have the guide creation cost - That's about it.

I don't imagine this is a really large part of thier over-all expenses.

Re:Lifetime?

[Anonymous Coward]

Part of it was people, but mostly it was stores. For the same commitment in shelf-space, the tivo cost them ~33% less to carry because of the reduced inventory costs. You can see that this was the case because ReplayTV went to a direct-sales approach for the 4000 series, keeping the inclusive fee. But when they wanted to get back in the B&M shelves with the 4500 and 5000 boxes, they implemented the subscription model instead, making the boxes at least as attractive as the Tivo to the merchants.

The bonus to the manufacturer for the seperate fee approach is that ~100% goes to the manufacturer rather than getting eaten away at due to the retail chain. The bonus for the consumer of the included fee approach is that when there is sale based on a percentage discount then that discount also applied to the programming fee.

That's why I bought my replaytv, with a 50% off discount (thank you venture capitalists) at 800.com, my "lifetime" subscription was also half-price. The tivo they were offering with the same discount would have cost ~$100 more in the long run.

This might hold an answer

[austinij]

Silicon Valley Biz Ink is indicating that all current customers will be retained. Hopefully, it works out that way.

-- I

Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[southpolesammy]

Interesting....this is a paradigm shift for D&M, as they've typically invested their R&D on the high-end of the audiophile spectrum. I'm somewhat perplexed by what they hope to accomplish with buying a line of low-end audio devices...

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Drakino]

I'm somewhat perplexed by what they hope to accomplish with buying a line of low-end audio devices...

SonicBlue fired all the low end audio people a while back, leaving the audio engineers in the UK (The empeg folks). They are very capable of delivering quality high end devices if so requested. I believe the empeg sound system came close to any high end ($1000 and up) in dash stereo unit for potential audio output quality.

Hopefully this means the empeg Mark 3 might see the light of day.

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[fewnorms]

They can't be very high end if I've never heard of them. Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer... those are high end. D&M sounds like the Apex of the audio world. Dude, you are probably not an audiophile. Denon and Marantz are related to the likes of Kenwood, Sony and Pioneer like a ferrari to a volkswagen. You probably also never heard of Quad or Nakamichi? heh ... now that's an audio system.

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[NetJunkie]

You'll probably see these come back as Philips branded devices, assuming they don't have a exclusive agreement with TiVo. A lot of Denon/Marantz products are released in a lesser form as Philips... My Marantz remote control is almost exactly the same as the Philips TSU-2000 remote.

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Sivart]

That would be because, until quite recently, Marantz was owned by Philips

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Anonymous Coward]

you are probably not an audiophile

s/probably/obviously/

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Wyatt Earp]

D&M isn't high end.

It's more of a high-end of the low-end.

Rotel, Krell, Sunfir, Mark Levinson, anything with vaccum tubes and the list goes on are more towards the middle and hugh end of the audiophile spectrum.

You know stuff where each mono-block amp costs more than the most expensive D&M box. Or when your system has a phono cartridge that costs 5-15,000 bucks, that's high-end.

But me, I'm happy with my Denon AVR-3803

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Zathrus]

They can't be very high end if I've never heard of them. Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer... those are high end.

Congrats... you've just named all of the major low-fi vendors.

Would you like to play again? Maybe, this time, try something more simple. Like automobiles. Hint - Honda, Toyota, and Ford are not the top of the line, despite sales figures.

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Anonymous Coward]

D&M aren't high-end. They're middle-range. Think Meridian and TAG and such for high-end.

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Surreal_Streaker]

You know stuff where each mono-block amp costs more than the most expensive D&M box. Or when your system has a phono cartridge that costs 5-15,000 bucks, that's high-end.

I'd argue that when your system sounds good it is high end. Thousand dollar phono cartridges only guarantee that your system is expensive. High end systems take more than just money.

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Wyatt Earp]

I'll go with that.

My Denon and Paradigms do sound good, as good as Rotels and M&Ks according to my buddy who spent twice as much as I did for Rotels and M&Ks.

But my point was there is an ass-load of stuff above and beyond Denon.

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[ePhil_One]

Denon and Marantz are related to the likes of Kenwood, Sony and Pioneer like a ferrari to a volkswagen

More like middle range, say more like a Volkswagen to a Jaguar. What the average joe thinks of as high end, but folks who are really dedicated to it know there's lots of stuff even higher and/or more specialized. Carver would more closely map to Ferrari, perhaps McIntosh to Lamborgini. And there are more out there that map to even more exotic stuff, like McLaren's, Liegnfeter(sp?), Vector, Shelby, Panos, ... (Ok, so I'm more into cars than audio) Probably maps pretty well in terms of volumes, etc.

I'm still cursing my freind for getting me hooked on the idea of getting a Carver Sunfire (http://www.sunfire.com/)

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[kesuki]

It's called 'higher stock values.'
Acquiring replay TV and the rio product lines doesn't exactly fit with the companies main line of work. But since they also got the names, they can simply keep on calling the replay tv the replay tv, and the rio the rio. They can sell low end (consumer grade/chomp usa/best [not to] buy) junk for revenues during the economic recession in japan, and the questionable economy here in the US.
The only question is will rebuilding iraq/building new bombs to replace the ones used be enough of an economic stimulus to get the economy going here, and in other contries competing for the rebuilding work.
BTW all the people who say the war in iraq was about the oil are fools, It's about rebuilding a bombed out nation that has the oil revenues (if a stable government is put in place) to pay for the foriegn contracts...

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[bludstone]

So, where would Onkyo be on this list?

Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[SecretAsianMan]

Some AC said:

They can't be very high end if I've never heard of them. Kenwood, Sony, Pioneer... those are high end

Hey, you just answered my question, which was "What's the best way for a person to let the world know s/he knows nothing about high-end audio?".

The score is now marketing 7, you 0.

Lifetime Activation

[Christopher_G_Lewis]

INAL, but if D&M continues the ReplayTV "Name" (ie, they purchased the name, not just the products) then they should have to honor the agreement. If the company all of a sudden become "D & M R-TV", or even "ReplayTV+" then the current owners might be screwed. Hopefully, they'll honor the current agreement, or only charge a small "transfer" fee.

From the service agreement...
SonicBlue

REPLAYTV Digital Video Recorder

Activation and Service Agreement

This Agreement applies to your use of the ReplayTV Service and is a legally binding agreement between you, SONICblue Incorporated and its wholly owned subsidiary, ReplayTV Inc. (collectively "ReplayTV"). By clicking the button marked "I Agree" below or by otherwise communicating your acceptance to ReplayTV or by using the ReplayTV Service, you agree to all the terms and conditions in this Agreement. IMPORTANT NOTE: Your ReplayTV digital video recorder works only by activating and receiving the ReplayTV Service offered and provided by ReplayTV. If you do not agree with all the terms and conditions of this Agreement, you are not authorized to use the ReplayTV Service, and you may return the ReplayTV unit to ReplayTV or the authorized retailer from whom you purchased the product for a full refund within one (1) month of the original purchase date.

Re:Lifetime Activation

[The_Rook]

IANAL either, but as i understand it, bankruptcy court allows a company, with the permission of the court, to set aside its obligations including debt and current contracts. part of the agreement for d&m to buy replay may have been to set aside certain replay contracts such as the lifetime activation or possibly supplier agreements.

oh, and by the way, while dennon and marantz gear is reasonably good, they are not the apex of high end audio, not by a long shot.

Re:Lifetime Activation

[stsai]

I believe you are citing the part where it says collectively "ReplayTV" as the basis for your comment. That part simply means that the phrase "ReplayTV" will be used to refer to SONICblue, Inc and its subsidiary ReplayTV, Inc. Whether or not D&M will honor the lifetime agreements is completely dependent on the structure of the agreement between them and ReplayTV, and has nothing to do with this service agreement.

Re:Lifetime Activation

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an asset sale not a stock transaction. Certain assets of SonicBlue (apparently including it's Rio and ReplayTV technology, trademarks and customer list) were purchased by D&M.

D&M is *not* SonicBlue's legal successor and will *not* assume SonicBlue's liabilities. The "lifetime" service people are just a few of many SonicBlue creditors who are going to lose here. It's unfortunate but they are no more deserving than the unpaid vendors and creditors that get burned in any bankruptcy. We should just be happy that the product line was picked up by a firm with the apparent resources to continue the scheduling service and to continue to develop the software. Tivo's software has pulled ahead in recent weeks. I'm hoping for big things from the next software update on the Replay.

Re:Lifetime Activation

[Christopher_G_Lewis]

I was actually refering to D&M purchasing the one or both of the companies "SONICblue, Inc and its subsidiary ReplayTV, Inc" VS D&M purchasing the asset known as ReplayTV and the right to maintain and manufacture past and current hardware...

But as pointed out, the Bankrupcy court will probably agree to allow D&M to punt any past agreements.

My understanding is that the court will basically allow pretty much anything in order to get some money back to the debt holders...

Net result, FUBAR'd users :-)

Re:Too bad

[austinij]

The ReplayTV is not based on a Micsoft OS.

S.O.L.

[Anonymous Coward]

The big question is what about all of the "lifetime subscriptions" that people bought?

I'm pretty sure D&M would've had to have bought out any and all contracts that SonicBlue had held, too. If they haven't bought the company outright, I don't think they're obligated to any service contracts or anything like that.

As somebody pointed out above, a lifetime contract means the lifetime of the company. Pretty rare that you'll find a sucker willing to take on the responsibility of assisting a previously installed user base-- it's usually not worth the money.

Re:S.O.L.

[Scyber]

Well SB continued to support existing Replay users when they bought out ReplayTV. Of course look at what happened to them...


The problem is that if D&M ditches all of the existing customers, then it will just about ruin the ReplayTV name in the consumer market. ANd they did buy the name.


I can't imagine that supporting the current customer base is too expensive.

Re:S.O.L.

[Lumpy]

BzzzzT! Wrong...

Thanks for playing.

a lifetime contract is based on the term lifetime as specified in the contract. Tivo is about 5-7 years.. just wait for the pissed offf tivo owners here soon finding they need to either buy a series 2 unit or re-up their "lifetime" contract.

lifetime = lifetime of the product as determined by the corperate scumbags.

lifetime

[ih8apple]

I've been a replaytv user for 3+ years and considering how much effort it takes to support the subscriptions, I'm assuming they will honor the lifetime subscriptions to keep customers loyal.

I mean, how much effort could it take to download a bunch of schedules from tvguide or whoever, encrypt them into the proprietary replaytv format, and put them on an FTP site. For the broadband users, they're done. For dialup, they need a simple agreement with a national ISP to support a few thousand 5 minute calls every night.

Doesn't any one RTA? Subscription info...

[splatter]

"D&M Holdings intends to keep all ReplayTV
customers and will design, manufacture and distribute a line of ReplayTV and
Rio products."

Sounds like they plan on continuing as normal. Hopefully D&M won't be buryied like Sonic Blue.

Re:Too bad

[evilviper]

Unfortunately, it just doesn't work out very well just yet. TV-out devices available for Linux have poor quality, as do the TV tuners available. I've tried. I'm still hoping somebody from gatos will change their minds on TV-out and get the AiW 8500DV working... Supposed to be near-DVD quality output, but lack of drivers screws Linux over again.

Now, this entire situation will be reversed once HDTV gains popularity. Then, input and output will both already be digital, and your computer will have no trouble. That is still assuming that an unrestricted HDTV tuner will be available, and Linux drivers will exist. But, until then (years from now), TVs and Linux PCs won't get along well together.

Philips and Marantz

[Anonymous Coward]

Philips owns a significant part of Marantz, you know.

http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=story_stocks &articleid=CA66618

Re:Philips and Marantz

[matthew.thompson]

I believe that story is now out of date the www.marantz.com site now states, under their History link.

MARANTZ TODAY

The Philips period ended in 2001 when Marantz Japan Inc. acquired the brand and all overseas sales subsidiaries. Today, Marantz falls under D&M Holdings, a joint holding company set up in 2002 to integrate Marantz and Hi-Fi manufacturer Denon in a strategic union that will strengthen both companies in the current tough economic climate. The company employs more than 1600 people in over fifty countries. It carefully selects its dealers to ensure that the quality of the service they provide matches the quality of the products Marantz produces. A dealer must satisfy strict requirements regarding demonstration facilities and store layout before Marantz products can be sold.

Re:Philips and Marantz

[Anonymous Coward]

"&M Holdings Inc. will establish a new head office in Sagamihara City, Japan, with Kabumoto as the new president and CEO of the company. Sakamoto will be installed as the new president and CEO of Denon, and Takashi Sato will serve as the new president and CEO of Marantz. All shares of Marantz and Denon will be transferred to D&M Holdings, making Denon and Marantz wholly owned subsidiaries. Marantz shareholders will receive one share of D&M Holdings per share of Marantz stock, and Denon shareholders will get 0.4416 shares for every share of Denon stock. Ownership by Marantz shareholders and Denon shareholders in D&M Holdings will be 30 percent and 70 percent respectively, which means Philips and Ripplewood will have stakes of 14.7 percent and 68.6 percent in the new company."

As of Apr02...

Re:Philips and Marantz

[red_gnom]

And the RIPPLEWOOD HOLDINGS, LLC is in the hands of Rockefeller family,
so 68.6 percent of Denon & Marantz belongs to Rockefellers now.

Re:Too bad

[jackalope]

The ReplayTV OS is a modified version of VxWorks from WinRiver.

One shouldn't immediately assume that there are only 2 operating systems in the world. There are a slew more than that, especially in the embedded device arena.

This is what scares me about these services....

[Flabby Boohoo]

"....what about all of the "lifetime subscriptions" that people bought?"

That is exactly why I have never taken the plunge. I don't want to invest in hardware that (more or less) requires the company to be around for it to work properly. For example, the only broadband options in my area are fixed point wireless. The problem is that I have to invest $500 in the hardware. What happens when they disappear in a year or two? I am stuck with useless hardware (unless someone else offers the service).

I guess the dot com mess is still fresh in my mind...

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[Sancho]

That's one of my aversions to TiVo. Last I checked (admittedly over a year ago) the unit was virtually worthless without a subscription. I remember reading that you could record 30 minutes at a time, on one touch, and not schedule recordings (even manually). So if TiVo were to go out of business, I'm left with a hunk of junk.

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[Snowspinner]

For what it's worth, TIVO has repeatedly promised that, should they go out of business, they will release ways to continue getting the channel information for free. ReplayTV hasn't made a promise like that, but I'm honestly not terribly worried about them if they're owned by D&M, who I doubt are going anywhere.

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[4of12]

Not necessarily.

Some TiVo owners didn't like the unit calling the mother ship and potentially downloading new revs of the OS that might mootify all their carefully-soldered hardware add-ons (eg, ethernet out).

I bought the lifetime subscription for the two TiVos I own (which have user-added hard drives) and been reasonably happy with it.

One problem, though, is schedule drift, where some movie off the satellite runs over the regularly scheduled time slot. The TiVo's feature of tacking on extra time to the recording helps this problem, but I'm loath to record too much unwanted crap (I already get commercials that I have to FF through and can't edit out).

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[KUHurdler]

Yeah right, and when I die I promise to give EACH of you that read this One-Million Dollars!!!

Of course, the day after I die.

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[Snowspinner]

I would assume that, following bankrupcy, a TiVo employee or two would be the ones to do this. Since bankrupcy is unlikely to result in their immediate death, this does not seem as unlikely as your offer of one million dollars.

Hope you never flatline in a hospital and get recussitated, though. =)

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[ryanwright]

Last I checked (admittedly over a year ago) the unit was virtually worthless without a subscription.

Which is why I, also, will not buy one. I don't want the subscription. I don't care about it. I just want to use it like a VCR - record when I want to, manually or via a schedule. Oh, and extract the MPEGs from my computer, but I'm happy with an end-user hack for that...

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[BigDish]

No. Tivo has promised they will release a set of instructions or something like that that allows you to use your TiVo in a VCR manner. You will no longer have a program guide.

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[patchmaster]

I just want to use it like a VCR - record when I want to, manually or via a schedule.

Like most people who've never lived with a ReplayTV or Tivo, you have no appreciation for what the schedule information adds to the device. I've been trying to explain ReplayTV to people for years and they still go away thinking it's just a fancy VCR with a large capacity. Anyone who's had one for more than a couple hours knows this couldn't be further from the truth.

If D&M wants to push the ReplayTV, the first thing they need to do is put together a 30-minute infomercial. The implications of the schedule information and the way the unit uses it would take at least that long to explain in a way people can fully appreciate.

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[ryanwright]

I realize the power the scheduler adds to these PVRs. No, I've never used one, so you're right in that I can't appreciate what the schedule adds. However, I understand the features; I just don't want to use them. I watch so little TV that my only reason for having a PVR would be to snag decent quality captures of a couple of shows here and there for recording to VCD.

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[patchmaster]

If you truly understood these features there's no way you would ever say you don't want to use them. Why would you not want to have the PVR adjust its record schedule automatically when the network decides to change the schedule around? Why would you not want the PVR to automatically record all the episodes of regardless of when it's on or what channel it's on?

I watch a lot more TV than I used to, but it's all TV I WANT to watch. I no longer sit in front of the TV cycling endlessly through the channels in search of something worth watching.

If I had to give up my ReplayTV, I'd probably give up TV entirely.

Re:This is what scares me about these services....

[KUHurdler]

Even still, my point was that there is no contractual obligation for any TiVo (former) employee to do this, and no purchasing decision should be based on that. No matter who promises it.

and are you saying my word is no good?

Re:dial up for replaytv - not a few thousand

[ih8apple]

yeah, but how many of those are dial-up and how many are broadband?

Consider this:

1. When broadband support was first announced 3 years ago (after replaytv had been in business 2 years), the reasoning behind it was that over 85% of replaytv customers had broadband access at home (cable/dsl/isdn)

2. All of the devices since then have focused on broadband (any model 4000+)

I'm assuming that, at most, the dial up need is in the low 10's of thousands, not in the 100's of thousands

D&M made a good purchase

[steelerguy]

Both Denon and Marantz make pretty high quality products and some nice higher end audio and video equipment. This looks a nice aquisition for them so they can expand their product line in a nice progressive way. They already make good DVD players and receivers, now they can add a media center device that will allow DVR capabilities and MP3 music libraries.

I do have a feeling that they will somewhat support the Replay TV customers, but they will no do any additional development. My guess is they will come out with their own unit and offer Replay TV owners deep discounts if they trade in. They are not going to want to support someone else's service.

Re:D&M made a good purchase

[MortisUmbra]

Erm, how is it someone elses service? They bought that "someone else" so it's THEIR service. The point here is that D&M don't HAVE to make their own service, because they bought someone elses service, so all that infrastructure work with channel guide updating, and so on, and hardware design, os customization,menu building, it's already done. Otherwise they would have just made their own from scratch.

There is absolutely no reason to buy a company who's assets contain everything you need from top to bottom to get a functional PVR out the door, and then change crap so it becomes "yours".

It already IS yours. Any changes you make to the system (outside of new features and whatnot) is just making life harder for you than it needs to be.

It would be like me buying, oh, GM, then changing the engine bays so they don't fit the standard GM engines anymore, then making my own engine just to put it in the car and say it's "my engine".

Why dothat? It's stupid, just use the engines and bays and layouts you paid for.

Re:D&M made a good purchase

[Ko5mo]

Technically, it is their business now.

If they want to keep the ReplayTV name, what's to stop them from putting the D&M quality worksmanship into it, and develope that name brand?

Of course they can also have a two tier system of Replay boxes and D&M boxes to differentiate the brand. Personally, I don't think that would be wise as there is already alot of confusion within the PVR market/features.

D&M will be fine

[WIAKywbfatw]

Denon and Marantz has a very solid core business - home audio entertainment. It's a well-respected, much-loved brand.

The likelyhood of D&M running into financial difficulties is slim, simply because their traditional businesses are cash cows. Even if the SonicBlue division (whatever it ends up being called) makes a loss, D&M will be fine (short of some vey serious mismanagement).

It's like Microsoft and Hotmail - even if Hotmail was to sink like lead, the money that Microsoft makes from its other businesses would more than keep it afloat.

As someone else has said, $36.2 million to buy yourself a major slice of the PVR market (not to mention portable digital music players) is a steal.

I'm glad I didn't go lifetime

[chill182]

I hope the ReplayTV stays around because it is as addictive as crack. I tried watching TV at a friends house and it was like going through withdrawl. I couldn't commercial skip and I was stuck watching whatever happened to be on at the time.

I felt like a caveman stuck watching the same old rerun of "Fire".

Re:I'm glad I didn't go lifetime

[splatter]

To funny,

I had the same experience the other day when I was sitting around at my friends house. I kept loking for the remote to skip the commericals and twice found myself biting my lip from asking my buddy to rewind it because I couldn't hear some of the dialog.

RTV = Entertainment Crank
dp

Re:I'm glad I didn't go lifetime

[danielobvt]

Dont worry.... There is another dealer out there willing to sell you a fix.. Tivo Addict since June 2000

Lifetime agreement:- Dictionary Definition

[phrantic]

Lifetime agreement: A fanciful mechanism whereby companies can charge the prices they really want to charge for a service but realize that no one will go for it as it is too high. For further explanation, see also Straight hooks and tartan paint

Empeg!!

[ajayrockrock]

Is anyone else hoping that they bring the Empeg back to life? I bought the Mark IIa when SonicBlue shut down production for a mere 300 bucks and I can say that it's the greatest MP3 player on the planet. Its been several years since the player was released and there's still an active community that builds all kinds of crazy software for the stereo (partly due to the fact that it runs linux).

later,
ajay

PS. And OGG support is coming soon!

Re:May 1st is Post as Anonymous Coward Day

[Globe199]

Or maybe you should just worry about something important!

Globe199

If it's anything like a "lifetime guarentee"...

[aerojad]

...those usually are void once the company goes under. You basically have a lifetime guarentee as long as the company is around, which is why it only really means something when the company has been around a long time, like Sears for example.

If the agreement is anything like that, the buyers of the assets can in theory say that since the original company is gone, they don't have to continue the service but they can offer them a new service, just like the old one, at a higher price.

Re:Too bad

[BonrHanzon]

Can't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of your Linux/Tivo/Anti-MS crusade. There is nothing Microsoft in the ReplayTV OS.

The user base is only partly prepaid

[fendel]

A lot of people bought lifetime subscriptions--in the beginning, that was the only option--but I think there are still a lot of ReplayTV owners paying the monthly fee. If D&M keeps the channel guide servers going for those folks, how much would it really cost them to let the lifetime subscribers dial in too (literally, or figuratively for the broadband units)?

Think $$$: Why wouldn't they keep their commitment

[evenparity]

If D&M are going to continue the Replay line, they would be crazy not honor Rio's lifetime subscriptions. Subscribers are assets.

Not only do you get a chance to upgrade them to next model, the eyeballs themselves must have some value. Marketing departments are constantly trying to develop channels like these subscriptions, and they are willing to pay for them.

It costs big $$$ to develop the guide data, but costs very little to distribute it more widely to these lifetime subscribers. By not honoring the agreement, it will cost them a lot in goodwill.

Of course, I can see them maybe offering lifetime subscribers a year or two of free service and then maybe making them pay, too. But it seems like there is an advantage of not making these people feel cheated. Cheated customers never return and they complain a lot (LOUDLY!).

(I'm glad I am a happy Tivo user.)

Maybe I missed it

[SomeOtherGuy]

Does someone have a link to a story that explains why SonicBLue could not keep there heads above water? To me it looks like they had won the battle of getting their products (portable Mp3's and CD based Mp3's) on just above every available shelf of every willing retail shop (Circuit City, Best Buy, CompUSA, etc.) Which considering a lot of high quality, sometimes obscure, sometimes better priced competitive products never even got in the door. And considering that most buyers do not want to go through the hassle of ordering the alternatives from some fly by night japanese web site and waiting 6-8 weeks for delivery if they ever deliver it all, requiring a credit card, some shady Ebay megadealer and all the other pitfalls of ordering online VS. walking into a brick and morter in any of the lower 48. Bottom line -- is it a weakness in the end user market that caused the downfall, is it the fact that the market is not as wide spread as conventional CD players, or DVD players, or TV's??? It is just hard for me to comprehend as to why a company that had such a monopolistic foothold in the brick and mortars could not at least break even.......

Re:Maybe I missed it

[SomeOtherGuy]

That was partially my point. (I am not a businessman) However, it does not take a businessman to understand the adage of not letting ones reach extend ones grasp. Their has to be some way (business model) for niche companies to provide products to smaller markets. Why does every technology company spend themseleves at the level that it would take the same kind of market penetration as TV's and Toasters in order to break even? Maybe the model would be to crank these things out of a "garage" until one can produce enough honest profit to deserve the amenities given to a proven company with a proven product. (Like I said -- I am not a businessman, but I do know software development for fortune 500 companies -- and we learned years ago that the "If we build it, they will come" is a very risky approach.

Re:Maybe I missed it

[splatter]

I think the lawsuits doomed them. But I'm not sure

BK Court Info - Sonic Blue's sale of Replay &

[slogadget]

Looks like the Bankruptcy case for Sonic Blue will be held in the Northern District of California Bankruptcy court. Judge Marilyn Morgan is hearing the case. Here is a link about the sale of Replay and Rio: Sale of Replay, Tues 15th April 2003 ~Robert

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

No. TV-out devices and TV tuners available as add-ons to PC's are typically of poor quality. The poster is correct in their assertion that this becomes less of a problem as things go digital, but still a problem nonetheless. Large amounts of the poorness of quality on PC components is because of the sheer amount of electrical and RF noise inside a PC.

There are many Set Top Boxes available that currently run Linux on IBM PPC cores, which have fantastic video output quality, and all the features you would expect. BECAUSE THE HARDWARE IS DESIGNED FOR IT.

The OS you're running has zilch to do with generating a quality TV output. Hardware designed by monkeys who say "yeah, that's looks like a TV picture, ship it" is more likely the cause.

Re:Too bad

[MortisUmbra]

Maybe for you, but anybody who values their time in the LEAST would never do that. The MCE boxes are not that great either. But of course you mentioned Linux so you will get plenty of Karma points.

Good Riddance!

[drayzel]

I'm not sure why everyone was/is such a fan of Sonic Blue and the other various bastard children of Diamond. I've had and seen nothing but problems with thier products. Shoddy workmanship, disposable products and low quality output.

My Rio Volt 250 lasted 2 months, my brothers PVR was nothing but trouble, their video cards back in the day suffered driver issues for years after initial release.

GOOD RIDDANCE! It sounds like D&M may be able to take the popularity of the name and turn out an adequate product.

Of course I am a freaking idiot and my opinion is probably usesless... I guess that's why I was given MOD points today, so I would STFU... but my dislike for SB, Rio, DiamondMM etc. overcame my deisre for an over rated sense of power and control.

Re:Good Riddance!

[pdbogen]

I wonder if he spent his RANDOMLY ASSIGNED mod points on this thread.. :>

Hi-fi elitism

[theLOUDroom]

I've already see a few posts on this topic that just made my stomach turn. Here's an example:

D&M isn't high end. It's more of a high-end of the low-end. Rotel, Krell, Sunfir, Mark Levinson, anything with vaccum tubes and the list goes on are more towards the middle and hugh end of the audiophile spectrum. You know stuff where each mono-block amp costs more than the most expensive D&M box. Or when your system has a phono cartridge that costs 5-15,000 bucks, that's high-end. But me, I'm happy with my Denon AVR-3803

Here's another one:

Dude, you are probably not an audiophile. Denon and Marantz are related to the likes of Kenwood, Sony and Pioneer like a ferrari to a volkswagen. You probably also never heard of Quad or Nakamichi? heh ... now that's an audio system.

I'm not an "audiophile" if by audiophile you mean "sucker." People who spend a ton of money on this stuff are buying some VERY overpriced equipment. Just because something is the most expensive in the world doesn't make it the best. And tubes? Yeah, you can make a good amp with tubes, but you can make just as good or better of and amp with transistors. (Guitar amps are a slightly different story.) Saying something has tubes, doesn't necessarily make it good.

I've decided to stick to pro-audio gear for all new audio purchases. There's just something stupid about spending $200 on unbalanced phono cables, but "audiophilies" have no problem with that. Nor do they seem to have a problem with $1000 speaker cables, etc.

If you're going to spend a ton of money on your audio system, I suggest you buy the same things a recording studio buys.

Just to show you guys are being a pompus asses, here's a brochure from quad:
here
check out those power amp specs: 108 db SNR

Now lets go look at some pro gear:
Check out the specs. page for this Crown amplifier.
SNR 120dB

People "in the know" don't buy that ridiculously overpriced "high end" stuff, they buy pro grear. It performs wonderfully, takes abuse, and costs less.

Re:Hi-fi elitism

[mcglothi]

Thank God somebody has some sense around here!

Re:Hi-fi elitism

[mkldev]

Exactly. The definition of high-end depends on who you are.

For average audio users, companies like Kenwood and Pioneer are seen as (relatively) high-end.

For audio engineers and other people with discerning ears, Denon, Marantz, Nakamichi, etc. are seen as high-end.

For the folks who blindly believe that they can hear the difference between 48 KHz and 96 KHz audio or between a $5 cable and a $1500 cable, there are plenty of even more expensive brands that are considered high-end....

For people with good ears, Denon and Marantz are high-end. For the rest of you, there's Mastercard.

Re:Hi-fi elitism

[Anonymous Coward]

Not like this has anything to do with the article. Yer tho thmart.

Re:Hi-fi elitism

[Lumpy]

SNR on an amp is 100% worthless.

What is the THD on all those items? hmmmm?

I can give you a amp that has a 1000db SNR but it has a 100% THD.

It's called a high-isolation relay.

Signal to Noise Ratio is a worthless measurement.

Re:Hi-fi elitism

[great om]

where does NAD fit in on the high end/ mid-end/low end bracket?

Re:Hi-fi elitism

[theLOUDroom]

SNR on an amp is 100% worthless.

Way to be very authoritatively wrong. SNR is not worthless. THD is important, but so is SNR, so is RMS output, so are a lot of things. THD only describes nonlinear distortion. Here's a diagram for you to look at. It will give you a better idea what all these specs measure. And if you want to know what the THDs for those amps are, I posted links to the damn specs, look at them!

Your analogy is worthless. First off, there's no Signal on the other side of your relay...you know? As in Signal to Noise Ratio? Second, the other side of your relay has 0% THD, does that mean THD is a worthless spec?

BTW, even if you were thinking of using a relay as an amplifier, it's not going to have 1000 db SNR or 100% THD. The SNR would be around 7.78 db (for a sufficiently harmonically complex signal), and THD would be very dependent on the signal you fed it.

Re:Too bad

[ozzee]

Can't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of your Linux/Tivo/Anti-MS crusade. There is nothing Microsoft in the ReplayTV OS.

Is Replay using a GNU licenced OS ? So I changed my tune, hey, WTH, this is SLASH dot.

And, no, I'm not anti-Microsoft. I have NO love for MS, but I am PRO linux.

Re:Too bad

[dirty]

Why does everyone think that this is the end of ReplayTV? So far everything looks like it's not going anywhere, and that there will probably be a lot more developement on the ReplayTV line. People were making the same comments two weeks ago when the deal between SonicBLUE and D&M "fell through". I think D&M was offering $40mil then. Yesterday they paid $36.2mil. That's $3.8mil more cash D&M has now. How is that a bad thing?

Re:Too bad

[dirty]

Here

"D&M Holdings intends to keep all ReplayTV
customers and will design, manufacture and distribute a line of ReplayTV and
Rio products."

This is not bad nws

Actually, it's even cheaper!

[jbarr]

The $36.2 million was for BOTH ReplayTV AND Rio. Not sure how it splits out, but for BOTH divisions, it seems like a steal.

Keeping the ReplayTV name doesn't mean they have..

[MrBud]

...to honor lifetime subscribers. The same thing happened to Wolf camera. Senior citizens received a lifetime membership if they joined (1 year renewal periods for everyone else). After Ritz camera bought out wolf camera, they stopped honoring senior lifetime memberships.

OT: Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[Zapman]

Ok. I've been eyeing the sunfire line (cinema grand, and theater grand lines). From what I've HEARD, their pre-amp's arn't that good at the video switching, but are find for audio. The thing that really interests me though is their 'step down transformer' amps. How do they sound to you? The lack of heat, and the nice power ratings are good pros, but it's a rather un-orthodox way of amping a signal (and in this day of surround sound, I'm not sure if the assumptions will hold up).

I know that I really should just go and listen to them (and I will if I ever go to buy one), but I'm lazy, so I'm asking you. :-)

Re:OT: Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[hudsonhawk]

While their sub has a lot of gee-whiz cool to it (a 12" cube! that's so cool!) they're amps and preamps, imho, are mediocre, considering what they cost. If you're looking for high-end home theater amps / preamps, look no further than B&K. If you're looking for just a high-end audio system, for the same price as the Sunfire stuff, you could get yourself into some entry-level Audio Research and Conrad-Johson eletronics.

But I've never been a fan of that all-flash, no substance Carver / Sunfire sound. To each his or her own.

Re:OT: Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[ePhil_One]

From what I've HEARD, their pre-amp's arn't that good at the video switching, but are find for audio.

Which sorta sucks for me, since one of the big draws to me is the abundance of HD Component video sources, since my TV really only has one set capable of HD (480p and up).

The other draw was switch to active interface functionality that promised to limit the amount of remote juggling (I own a rediculous # of remotes these days).

But there's a lot of other stuff ahead of this purchase, so aside from drooling I haven't done much research :-/

Re:OT: Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[The_Rook]

sunfire is owned and designed by bob carver (famous for his previous company, carver electronics until he was forced out by his investors). so whatever was true of carver is true of sunfire. that is, lots of marketing hype and gimmicky products and product names (remember sonic holography and magnetic field amplifiers?). reasonably good mid-fi quality but probably not up to true high end standards. carver's marketing always seemed rather silly to me, kind of how psychics promote themselves.

Re:OT: Re:Hi-fi buys lo-fi

[southpolesammy]

I bought a Sunfire Jr. about 3 years ago and while it's great for music, it's not so good for home theater and movie sound. It slams against the housing during large explosions and and other repetitive low frequency tracks on DVD movies.

But for music, it's very, very nice. Very smooth, musical, precise, and not at all dull or boomy. Blends nicely with my old NHT Super One's.

Of course, this is an entry-level high-end setup, but it's good enough for me. I'm not blessed with the ears that some of my other audiophile friends have, nor their budgets, so I'm happy.

ReplayTV traditionally != lo fi

[sporkboy]

Replay has publically positioned themselves from very early on as more of a high-end PVR maker, thus the inclusion of higher capacities and networking capability earlier than Tivo. This strategy probably cost them a lot of business so they've softened their stance and tried to push down into the more mainstream market but it doesn't change their original intent.

As a fan of both companies I can't help but be encouraged for the time being.

Onkyo comparable to Denon

[sporkboy]

Onkyo products are typically competitive across the board with Denon, it's more a matter of personal preference. The upper hand between them switches back and forth at various times but they typically both have a solid product for any component that will be of good quality but not excessively expensive (for people who like their gear at least). Both are well-known enough that some of their products will show up at a mainstream electronics store, but the bulk of their line would usually only be seen at a specialty retailer.

Re:Onkyo comparable to Denon

[bludstone]

Excellent.

I recently purchased an Onkyo Home-Theater-In-A-Box. It performs beautifully and I now realize what Ive been missing listening to music out of tinny computer speakers for so many years.

Only 500$ and I have a great reciever With 5.1 speakers.

num num.

I got the HT-S650, if you want to know.

Re:Too bad

[evilviper]

but still a problem nonetheless.

Please say what possible problem there could POSSIBLY be with HDTV tuners and computers. I already know HDTV out will not be a problem, since many of them support DVI, and ATI's last 3 generations of cards support HDTV output via a $30 adapter.

Large amounts of the poorness of quality on PC components is because of the sheer amount of electrical and RF noise inside a PC.

That's pure and utter bullshit. One of the urban legends of the computer age.

BECAUSE THE HARDWARE IS DESIGNED FOR IT.

That's quite a vague assesment. The reason embedded systems can have very good TV-in and TV-out is because of interlacing... Video cards with TV-out made for PCs must take the non-interlaced signal, output it to VGA/DVI, then interlace it, and output it to S-VIDEO. The conversion never works perfectly, and it's expensive to even do it well, so no go.

Of course you COULD design software around TV-in/out hardware that keeps everything in the interlaced domain, but that would involve pretty much writing everything from scratch (which I imagine Tivo did). Of course, then you are to the point of everyone needing their own embedded system, and software written for it, which is NOT what people want, and not what they mean when refering to using a PC like a tivo. That would be prohibitively expensive, and not easilly accomplished.

The OS you're running has zilch to do with generating a quality TV output.

That's half right, and half wrong... The cheap hardware with TV-out will not produce a good picture no matter what. However, very complex drivers are needed to properly make use of very good TV-out devices, which varies from platform to platform. In addition, my gripe with Linux/ATI/Gatos is NOT that there is something inferior about Linux, my grip is the drivers for hi-quality TV-out devices (my ATI All-in-Wonder 8500DV to be exact) is simply not available on Linux at all. In addition, I would also say that the poor quality of TV-in under Linux is, in fact, due to the software doing the processing of the input.

Don't get me wrong, I like Linux... (Setting up a full-fatured multimedia box isn't really even possible with the mediocre software available on Windows) ...however, the lack of support for good hardware is a big drawback, and a major source of frustration for me.

Re:Too bad

[evilviper]

If the monitor you are outputing to has no HDTV input,

That's one hell of an "if". We are talking about when HDTV is popular... Why wouldn't an HDTV have some form of digital input???

PC based products that are shipping in 1000's with TV out. I'm on my third now.

And I'm Jimmy Hoffa...

Believe what you want, but if you can see it on a `scope then the problem exists.

It's not that there is no noise inside PCs, it's that most decent quality electronics is not susceptible to it, and even the cheap crap can be selectively sheilded if necessary. Most people are convinced that there is a load of interference inside their case just because the $2 embedded sound-chip sounds like crap.

DVB-T/S/C tuner cards exist which do all the video processing / MPEG decode / video output.

If I'm not mistaken, DVB is DIGITAL, which means it has NO relation to this discussion about interfacing ANALOG video with a PC! I specifically said that DIGITAL TV would solve this whole problem.

It's a matter of using the right tools for the job.

Hmm, apparently it's a job of making things up as you go...

The only way to generate proper TV out is to be creating an image that is the size of the TV frame to start with

Do you have ANY experience with this AT ALL? You can very easilly set your computer's display to be 720x480 (or any other standard TV freq.), but guess what, the quality is still terrible. If it was merely a matter of a different resolution, you'd see tons of dirt-cheap video cards with perfect TV-out. Re-read my point about interlacing...

What you need is documentation, which all the GFX card co's guard more tightly than their mother's good name.

ATI gave the gatos developers the specs on their cards, although they have to keep everything confidential. The problem is that they are in the USA, and are afraid that enabling TV-out will get them in some legal trouble.

You are maybe 0.00001% of their sales. Why bother with a linux driver?

Interesting question. Why don't you ask it to NVida, who not only have a Linux driver, but also have a FreeBSD driver for their cards.

Re:Philips and Marantz (and TiVo!)

[ashutoshsm]

Which is interesting, because Philips has a lo of interest in TiVo - at least judging from the fact that Philips branded TiVo's are (or used to be, until recently) available on the market.

Are we, perhaps, seeing a consolidation of the major players (TiVo and ReplayTV)? That can only be good, because the PVR market is still too small this consolidation to be considered a monopoly.