Life As An African Web Developer

There's an interesting look at the realities of high-tech in Africa running on NewsForge -- specifically, one writer's account of starting a web development company in Ghana, dealing with obstacles including power problems worse than the norm in deepest California.

Comments

Going up?

[Blaine Hilton]

Here in the states the economics of being a programmer or anything in the IT industry is pretty bad, but from the article it seems Africa is much worse. We take most of their problems for granted here. I think this is a large problem for Americans, we don't really realize how good we have. The same thing can be said for gasoline, in Europe they are paying double, triple or more then what we are paying, even when we think its so "expensive".

I do believe there is a light at the end of the proverbial tunnel though for the Internet economy through out the whole world. We are coming to the point where computers are as common as televisions, and a computer really isn't a computer with out being able to access the Internet. This is going to redefine what we now know as a global economy. Borders are going to become looser, and ideas will be freely exchanged. Another thing is since the .dom crash many people have decided to switch careers, and thus the workflow is going to equalize, and I believe that is going to happen sooner rather then later.

Go calculate something.

Re:Going up?

[f13nd]

whine whine whine
gasoline... processors... LIFE
it's all becoming more expensive
deal with it
it's called INFLATION

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

>but from the article it seems Africa is much worse

You got second post and you're tellin' me that you really had time to read the article? Somehow, I doubt it.

Re:Going up?

[Scarblac]

Here in the states the economics of being a programmer or anything in the IT industry is pretty bad, but from the article it seems Africa is much worse.

Well, DUH. Talk about obvious.

There are a few major problems in Africa, and the price of gasoline or the lack of $60k jobs isn't one of them.

One is drinking water. Another is AIDS. Civil war is also quite common.

In some countries, school teachers are dying of AIDS faster than they can be trained. In some countries, people pay more than half their daily income for fresh water. Saying that "it seems" the problems in US IT industry are not the worst in the world is rather offensive, in my opinion.

Re:Going up?

[@madeus]

Here in the states the economics of being a programmer or anything in the IT industry is pretty bad, but from the article it seems Africa is much worse. We take most of their problems for granted here. I think this is a large problem for Americans, we don't really realize how good we have. The same thing can be said for gasoline, in Europe they are paying double, triple or more then what we are paying, even when we think its so "expensive".

While I quite agree with the rest of this paragraph I take strong issue with your opening sentence.

Specifically with:

Here in the states the economics of being a programmer or anything in the IT industry is pretty bad

Workers in the IT industry are still earning above the national average, for a job that's really not that demanding (your actual milage may vary of course, but by and large it's not that taxing if you know what your doing).

I think the IT industry is a great one to be in - certainly as far a salarys & formal prerequisites to employment go, especially for a job that requires almost zero physical labour and has almost endless scope for career development (by which I mean there are so many roles you could do you couldn't possibly hope to do them all in one lifetime).

The only problem this sector ever had was the influx of mid 90's 'get rich quick' lusers turned sysadmins/developers/web designers who wouldn't know a clue-by-four if they were larted on the head with it.

Most of them are still unemployed now, but if your a *real* sysadmin/developer/etc - and your reasonably flexible - then your simply not going to be unemployed for huge length of time (>6 months) unless you live in an area where there is amazingly stiff competion (like say, the bay area).

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah the joys of being able to read the article, before it's really posted. Check out /. subscribe feature before making assumptions.

Re:Going up?

[seanadams.com]

Just a little career advice: learn to spell "you're," and watch your salary double!

Re:Going up?

[bm_luethke]

I think this is a large problem for Americans, we don't really realize how good we have

This is also true for CS people in general. We still have one of the most desirable jobs.

Take for instance one of my friends: master in english - 3.9 gpa. 250 resume's later still no job (only a handfull of "we'll keep you on file"). He's not asking for anything large (in fact it will be difficult for him to repay his loans).

That's a crappy job market. Ours just sucks compared to the dotcom bubble - which was insanely high. The jobs have basically came down (though a little lower) than what they should have been all along.

I do agree with your second paragraph also. Give it time to adjust - at the small state school I went to there were about 10-12 CS, 20-30 IS, and over 100 IT. That is really out of proportion. Nearly all the IT (and a few of the IS) was because it was easier and made good money, once it is certain it will not make the fortune they wanted, they will move on.

Re:Going up?

[Breakfast Pants]

I think gasoline prices are rising more due to the fact of something called LIMITED SUPPLY.

Re:Going up?

[packeteer]

Did you mean to use the term "scarcity"? If your going to pretend to know what your talking about maybe you should really know.

Re:Going up?

[DCowern]

Crap... I think I clicked the "read more" link and ended up back in 1996... A few words from the future (April of 2003):

• Most areas of the US still face the "last mile" problem
• Linux STILL isn't on everyone's desktop
• Microsoft is still one big bully of a company
• A bunch of aliens came and tried to enslave half the population but we beat them all back with garden hoses. REMEMBER TO STOCK UP.

All in all things aren't that different in the future :-P

Re:Going up?

[Erik Hollensbe]

Maybe you should use a fricking dictionary before you try to play the asshole.

Re:Going up?

[Breakfast Pants]

its not mere scarcity... instead of limited supply perhaps I should have said finite supply.

Re:Going up?

[SN74S181]

Well, gee. We were talking about the topic of IT.

We haven't considered malnourished children in Mississippi, or the plight of the coal miners in West Virginia. I bet you never even THOUGHT about those people before making your comment. How offensive.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

"then your simply not going to be unemployed for huge length of time (>6 months) unless you live in an area where there is amazingly stiff competion (like say, the bay area)."

In other words you agree completely. Oh and those wannabe sysadmins/web designers etc? They've still got their jobs. In fact, you'll often be interviewed by some of those dolts. (Haven't I seen you before?)

Re:Going up?

[@madeus]

Just a little career advice: learn to spell "you're," and watch your salary double!

Oh good greif.

Man accidentally uses apostrophe inappropriately (at ~6 am in the morning) - news at 11.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is slashdott, speling and reeding the linked artacles are opshinal.

Re:Going up?

[Dot.Com.CEO]

Scarcity (the economic term) is correct. A dictionary does not teach you economics.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Take for instance one of my friends: master in english - 3.9 gpa. 250 resume's later still no job (only a handfull of "we'll keep you on file"). He's not asking for anything large (in fact it will be difficult for him to repay his loans).

How about suggesting your friend to take some HTML/WWW lessons and then send his/her resume to online news services or any companies that need literate people wirting for the web?

Hell, your friend could also apply for a Slashdot editor position.

Re:Going up?

[@madeus]

If your unemployed for a long period there is a reason for that. That reason is not 'your skills are dazzlingly bright', nor is it 'you're trying too hard'.

The unemployment rate is currently 5.8% in the US (as of March 2003). It's notably less if you male, or, for that matter white - in which case it's more like 5.1% (relevant as most /.'ers will of course be white males).

Even 5.8% is low, it's one of the lowest in the world. This table for example, maybe a little out of date, being as it is from last year, but it's still useful at putting everything in perspective.

Compared to unemployment rates of 50, 60 or 70% in Africa (and double-digit dates in the last century in the US) the current whinging about unemployment is a-something-about-nothing that's been blown largely out of proportion by media and public opinion.

Certain factions of the public find it easier to believe that they are a victim of a weak economy rather than admit responsibility for their own circumstance. My own father, who I haven't seen in years, has not been in full time employment in a regular job for a decade due entirely to his own inadequacy - and he regularly blames the current government, the previous government (going back 20 years) and the state of the economy (but oddly enough, not himself).

Re:Going up?

[Lionfish]

Man, WE all know how you get AIDS. They dont. There is just no money (and people) to educate them. A majority has not even a clue what "a virus" is. They do not have the choice to not share a needle, when there are not enough one-use needles in their hospitals. If there is a hospital at all. Its die or die.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you also realize that innocent children and even babies get raped because some people still believe that having sex with a virgin will cure aids ? Yes, that happens in Africa. Education is the only way to stop things like this happening, and even then, it is quite difficult to get someone to change their beliefs. You are a complete ass.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it possible to have a civil war? Hello ? Anybody home? Do you know what a civil war is ? You really are a fucktard.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are lies, damned dirty lies, and statistics.

The unemployment rate is the percentage of people actively looking for work, which is not equal to the number of people who do not have jobs.

As for your loser father: an apple never falls far from the tree.

Re:Going up?

[stinky wizzleteats]

Let's have a history lesson...

One is drinking water. Another is AIDS. Civil war is also quite common.

Poor sanitation, disease, and civil war. United States, late 19th century. What did we do to overcome these problems? Did an international outreach of concerned Europeans build sewers and hospitals for us? Did English peacekeepers prevent the savagery of our civil war?

As evidenced by this statement: "...is rather offensive, in my opinion.", you clearly intend for the reader to assume responsibility for the conditions of those living in -insert impoverished country here- when history clearly demonstrates that such concern is idiotically ill-conceived. If the concern you are offended that we don't have cannot make the changes you would intend, then what possible good can come of those purposes in the first place, except to shock and paralyze soccer moms into believing that they can't walk outside without harming the world in some way?

What got us out of the squalor and suffering of our early days is the same thing that can get them out - the personal struggle to overcome. And if you wake up in the morning, and find reason not to pursue excellence because people in Africa don't have clean drinking water, then you, sir, offend me.

Re:Going up?

[@madeus]

The unemployment rate is the percentage of people actively looking for work, which is not equal to the number of people who do not have jobs.

Oooh you really do sound like a bitter luser (and an AC - what surprise!).

What's the matter - can't get a job because you posses no skills society attaches any usefulness to?

Would you like a big shiny L to attach to your forehead?

As for your loser father: an apple never falls far from the tree.

Well _that's_ *obviously* true because there is no such thing a 'self made man!'.

Oh, and just to make it clear (it seems your not too bright) people != apples (people not being fruit, except possibly in your case).

Re:Going up?

[autopr0n]

(relevant as most /.'ers will of course be white males).

Bleh, what makes you say that? Besides, 5.1% isn't that much better then 5.8% I think the real issue here is the unemployment rate for collage grads.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi I posted this from a P 800
I didnt even read your comment.

Re:Going up?

[autophile]

I do believe there is a light at the end of the proverbial tunnel though for the Internet economy...Borders are going to become looser

Actually, that's the worst thing that can happen to the U.S. economy. The US has one of the highest costs of living in the world. If borders become looser, and workflow equalizes across the world, then US IT salaries will drop to compete with the rest of the world where costs of living, and hence salaries, are lower.

We in the US *do* have it great, but we should be preparing ourselves for the crash to come.

--Rob

Re:Going up?

[HanzoSan]

The US created their own Civil War, the Africans were given chaos by European invaders in the same way Iraq was given Chaos/.

Re:Going up?

[fulana_lover]

Poor sanitation, disease, and civil war. United States, late 19th century. What did we do to overcome these problems? Did an international outreach of concerned Europeans build sewers and hospitals for us? Did English peacekeepers prevent the savagery of our civil war? Umm, we brought over millions of slaves from Africa to do all the dangerous, hard work for no wages? Oh, so you are suggesting Africans should go invade europe? kidding aside, i mostly agree with you, but it is much, much, much more difficult for countries nowadays to "hoist themselves by their petards" than it was 100 years ago. China and India have managed to putter along pretty well, many people believe because they have accepted little to no IMF funds and are able to set their own economic policies. Don't also forget that 1st world countries currently subsidize their farmers heavily, which means 3d world farmers have a very tough time profiting from farming (long story, Europe is most guilty of this). I do feel Africa squandered their biggest opportunity, the cold war. Now that its over, only the countries with valuable resources (oil, gold, diamonds) are getting vague interest.

Re:Going up?

[HanzoSan]

If it wasnt true, people wouldnt need affirmative action.

Women and Minorities only make between 70-80 percent of the salary of white males. Which means these groups must be more educated and experience than you to make the same amount of money, this is why they like to support Affirmative Action.

Re:Going up?

[carlos_benj]

...it is much, much, much more difficult for countries nowadays to "hoist themselves by their petards"

Did you really mean to imply that it's much more difficult for them to destroy themselves with their own devices, or to "pull themselves up by their own boot-straps"?

Re:Going up?

[@madeus]

(relevant as most /.'ers will of course be white males).

Bleh, what makes you say that?

You mean apart from because it's true?

Besides, 5.1% isn't that much better then 5.8%

Actually it's a big deal when talking about unemployment figures. A 0.7% difference in unemployment has a huge impact on the US economy - it is the difference between billions of dollars of tax revenues collected and billions of dollars spent on benifit and support schemes. It represents a difference of ~1 million people.

That's to say nothing of the effect such a difference has on the private sector (e.g. on lending rates, consumer spending, retail revenue).

Re:Going up?

[carlos_benj]

Are you suggesting that there were no warring factions or tribes before the Europeans came?

I suppose it could also be said that Europeans caused the US Civil war since most of the participants wouldn't have been on the continent without European exploration and colonization.

Re:Going up?

[carlos_benj]

Oh good greif.

That was funny! Was it intentional? Maybe you need more coffee....

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

So what, at least they (Africans) are still a people, unlike most Native American tribes...

Re:Going up?

[stinky wizzleteats]

Umm, we brought over millions of slaves from Africa to do all the dangerous, hard work for no wages?

You overlooked the purpose for having fought that civil war in the first place. The blood of nearly a million Americans was spilt removing the crime of slavery from the American culture, so you'll forgive me if I feel unmoved by the addition of your tears or mine. I consider it the most fundamental respect to the memory of those fallen to live in harmony today, thus, I do not believe in continuing to fight that war. The descendents of Africans are contributing members of the modern American society. They are not and have never been slaves, and I for one am thankful for that.

Their participation in the building of this nation, as previously discussed as the late 19th century, was as free people.

Re:Going up?

[Scarblac]

As evidenced by this statement: "...is rather offensive, in my opinion.", you clearly intend for the reader to assume responsibility for the conditions of those living in -insert impoverished country here- when history clearly demonstrates that such concern is idiotically ill-conceived.

What was offensive to me is that it was suggested that the current "problems" of IT in America are similar to the problems that Africa faces. I completely agree that more "help" by Western states is the last thing they need (although less active opposition by trade barriers would be good).

Re:Going up?

[carlos_benj]

If your unemployed for a long period there is a reason for that. That reason is not 'your skills are dazzlingly bright', nor is it 'you're trying too hard'.

Nice generalities. Having been unemployed for long periods of time in the past (once for 11 months and once for 9 months) I feel somewhat qualified to respond.

In the mid 80's I left a very high paying job because I didn't care for the pressures and the time away from my family and the cost of treating ulcers was probably going to go up. I left for a job at half the salary and asked if I could start in a month so that I could spend some time with my wife and kids. They were very accomodating. In that month the company was acquired and the job eliminated, this during an economic downturn in the 80's. The difficulty in finding a job was threefold - those who had jobs were hanging on to them, those jobs being vacated were not being filled, those interviewing me told me they wouldn't hire me because I'd be looking for another high-paying job after a few months (when I finally got a job I was there for 8 years before leaving to find a better one).

The 9 month period of unemployment happened a few years ago when I was "let go" because "I wasn't the type of programmer they were looking for." I think they were looking for a programmer that didn't have cancer. It's difficult to look for a job when undergoing cancer treatment, especially when you tell potential employers you'll need time off up front for scheduled treatments.

It may be possible that your sweeping generalities are as accurate as your inappropriate use of the word 'your'.

Re:Going up?

[4of12]

In some countries, school teachers are dying of AIDS faster than they can be trained.

Worse, in one African country local superstition has resulted in some schoolteachers being killed outrightfor casting Ebola spells.

Now that's the kind of problem that is like burning your seed corn.

As you note, IT problems in Africa are the least of their problems.

Re:Going up?

[@madeus]

Yes your right :)

*Definately* more coffee! :)

Must have had a temporary SOH failer (had a run in at work with an Apostophe Enforcer recently).

Re:Going up?

[@madeus]

Okay, somewhat at the prompting of another /. reader, I apologise for being a grumpy bastard.[0]

[0] This time (not in general). [1]

[1] Everybody get's one. [2]

[2] Unless they at Nat. Portman I think that additional apologies will get me nearer her hot grits.

Re:Going up?

[de la mettrie]

I completely agree with your statements, but...

In some countries, school teachers are dying of AIDS faster than they can be trained

AIDS is not inevitable (except in rare cases: infected blood serum etc). A person that is ignorant or stupid enough not to use condoms is not a person that should be teaching kids anyway.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Man how CLUELESS Americans can be!

You know *NOTHING* about their culture.

Fuck, you people are so goddamn ignorant I'd say you deserved the shit you got.

Re:Going up?

[TKinias]

scripsit fulana_lover:

I do feel Africa squandered their biggest opportunity, the cold war.

That's an interesting statement; what it brings to mind is Angola, with right-wing South Africans (U.S. proxy) fighting left-wing Cubans (Soviet proxy)... The Cold War doesn't seem like it helped Angola very much, but I'm sure that's not the model you had in mind.

What sort of opportunity did the Cold War offer Africa, and how did they squanderit?

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Again, learn to use you're properly and your salary will double!

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF is a collage grad?
Someone who is great at making collages?
No wonder you're unemployed! Who would pay for that shit?

Re:Going up?

[Rinikusu]

"Yep, you gotta say one thing about that there Saddam. He sure knew how to keep order. Can't be having that chaos running around. Yep, killing hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, yessir, just because they didn't agree with him. Nope, no sir, it's one thing we like and that's order, to hell with "rights"."

Europeans invaders just gave the already warring factions methods and tools to wage war more indiscriminately and more deadly.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

scarecity is incorrect. He was attempting to be diplomatic by suggesting that you used the word incorrectly instead of accusing you of being ignorant and brainwashed.

See, inflation is caused by rising prices. Rising prices within a fixed market system, with no corresponding increase in real wealth, results in inflation. "A dollar that doesn't buy what it used to."

But of course we don't have a perfect zero-sum economy. Wealth is created. The production of oil has outstripped demand, and so, relative to overall inflation, gas prices are down.

The perceived scarcity of oil does not exist. It is price gouging by oil companies who have not suffered diminished supply, and speculators who predict that in the future there may be diminished supply, due to war, etc. Hence rising prices. But, as was already shown, rising prices without a corresponding rising demand (or decreased supply) results in inflation. Over the past two years the inflation of gas prices, relative to other commodities has increased.

Anyone who has paid for their own gas for any period of time over 2 year and can understand simple economics and doesn't believe in conspiracy theories that an idiot can see through, realizes this. Hence the previous poster's generous supposition that you are not an idiot and a kook who doesn't support themself.

Re:Going up?

[Some Dumbass...]

Poor sanitation, disease, and civil war. United States, late 19th century. What did we do to overcome these problems? Did an international outreach of concerned Europeans build sewers and hospitals for us? Did English peacekeepers prevent the savagery of our civil war?

We tapped our natural resources. We poured money into our industrial infrastructure. We started founding state universities.

Now, why don't those sill Africans just do that?

Re:Going up?

[Some Dumbass...]

Note: the "sarcasm" quotes around that last sentence got lopped off. My bad. Hopefully people will figure it out.

Also, I forgot to mention that in the late 1800s, personal machineguns didn't exist. You know, those weapons which African dictators arm their militias with? That's a pretty major difference.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

is that the shit that's better off than Africa?

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Aids? Not in Ghana, just 6% of the population (isn't much when you take into regard theat 80% of the population are under 25), 95% of prostitutes, no civil war, democratically elected government (athough there is a destabilzing winner takes it all spirit), dictator Rawlings was dismissed by free elections.

The main problem of Ghana are: Malaria, no constant power supply, few jobs.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it cancer or an ulcer or wanting more time off? You've got to make up your mind.

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[Anonymous Coward]

That ratio sounds shockingly like the real world tech job market.

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[Anonymous Coward]

I know that if they still think fucking a virgin will cure AIDS, then maybe their culture is heading for a well-deserved extinction. I know many countries have dumped countless dollars into programs to educate all these people that just can't seem to stop fucking. I have a hard time believing that any significant portion of the population can honestly claim to have never had any opportunity to get information regarding the spread of AIDS.

And if they can't get condoms? DON'T FUCK. Abstinence sucks but it's quite possible.

The only people to blame for the rampant AIDS epidemic in Africa are the Africans. This started over there...it's not like wiping out the native Americans with smallpox. If their culture and society can't handle it, too fucking bad.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm I thought everything started really going downhill once the europeans left

Re:Going up?

[zdislaw]

It's amazing how many people here (both those apparently trying to be as offensive as possible and those who are not) are referring to "Africa" as if their incredibly broad, overarching statements could possibly apply to such an enormous region. Africa is a continent made up of different countries made up of different regions, cities, tribes, towns, etc. This virgin sex cure for AIDS did happen. Still happens. But it doesn't happen in "Africa." As far as I remember this was reported in parts of South Africa, a country in Africa about as different from other countries in Africa as you can get. A country that has been about as fucked by colonialism as you can get. So, to say that "yes, that happens in Africa" is essentially meaningless.

Check out the Peter's Projection map for a decent picture of how big the area being painted with a single brush is: Peters Map

I don't pretend to understand the cultural intricacies that can lead to dangerous behavior (unprotected sex), but have you looked in American high schools lately? We don't use condoms over here as much as we should either, but the disease is not as prevalent as there so our odds are much better.

Yes, education is going to help and we as a country should do more to help, but there is a lot more going on than just ignorance. Sometimes Americans (and Europeans for that matter) need to jsut shut up and listen to the people they are trying to help. Our solutions don't always apply in other countries. And a solution that works in South Africa might not have a snowball's chance in hell up in Algeria.

So there's my contribution to the derailment of the original posters thought.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

what about children BORN WITH AIDS! they make up a huge portion of the population who have it, and they certainly didnt ask for it.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

also, education doesnt fix thigns instantly, its not like you provide aids education and 2 years later aids is gone if people listen, and the epidemic isnt that old, but incredibly devistating.

Re:Going up?

[carlos_benj]

Yes. At any given point in time it's one of those....

Re:Going up?

[JoeBuck]

I'll tell you what the US did: it had a copyright and patent regime that refused to recognize foreign copyrights and patents, and proceeded to "steal" British "intellectual property" to create an American industry. It passed high tariffs, to keep out foreign competition. In other words, it did the very things that the US (through its organs, the IMF, World Bank, and WTO) forbids developing countries to do.

No country ever got rich by opening itself for exploitation by foreign companies and by practicing "free trade".

Re:Going up?

[i]

Idiot!

Most of the people don't afford condoms AND western (US) churches/missionaires in Africa condemn the use of condoms !

(And US government killed all money to information about condoms etc.)

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry pal, but the first step in writing any wrong is placing the blame where it belongs. Your finger pointing is 180 degrees off. But feel free to stew in your own bile if it's all you're good for.

Re:Going up?

[stinky wizzleteats]

No country ever got rich by opening itself for exploitation by foreign companies and by practicing "free trade".

This statement is clearly correct, but that is because there is a difference between a rich nation and a prosperous people.

The rest of your comment is half-right. Clearly, US IP policy is hypocritical when compared to its past behavior. The only ones who want IP enforcement are those who own IP, and we (or M$, **aa, and their paid for government buddies) are proving no exception to that rule. I think the assertion that America became a world power because of stolen British IP is a bit of a stretch, and I am quite amazed with how quickly we've been put back on top of the "Grand One World Conspiracy" that stood against our action in Iraq, especially since it isn't even over. You might wait for the echoes of "down with America" ringing from all over the UN, WTO, et al to die down at least a little before making that statement.

Re:Going up?

[stinky wizzleteats]

Last week: The US is losing the war.

This week: Iraq was given Chaos.

Stay tuned, kids!

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, itsa comin'. That's the trouble with these prophets of doom and gloom. When you spend half of your lifetime sitting on your posterior warning about the approaching certifiable, incontrovertable end of everything, your butt gets bigger. And then when you spend the other half of your life ducking and covering under your desk, other people begin to confuse your ass with your face. It's a wasted life.

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bet you there are a lot of people in Africa begging for big, ugly hyperpowers like the US to give them just a little smidgen of this "chaos" you're talking about.

Re:Going up?

[PoorCoder]

"...burning your seed corn." - Do they run a Popcorn farm? Well, many time I have been telling people "be glad that you are in U.S.A." They are still cry babies anyway!

Re:Going up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux STILL isn't on everyone's desktop

Shocking. I propose we find all the people who aren't already using Linux, confiscate their computers, and put them in camps where they will be reeducated in the one true philosophy of Open Source.

Re:Going up?

[fulana_lover]

That's an interesting statement; what it brings to mind is Angola, with right-wing South Africans (U.S. proxy) fighting left-wing Cubans (Soviet proxy)... The Cold War doesn't seem like it helped Angola very much, but I'm sure that's not the model you had in mind.

What sort of opportunity did the Cold War offer Africa, and how did they squanderit?

As you point out, many 3d world countries were involved as proxies between USA and Russia during the cold war. Countries such as Philipines, Turkey, Malaysia, Iran, Peru got both military assistance and economic assistance while the money spout was on. African countries, in general, spent most of the money on military purposes and then squandered any other funds on various grandiose projects (worlds largest church, palaces, etc). I grant you most of the recipients did not end up really that much better (afghanistan is a cruel example, chile and most of south america another), but arguably better than Africa has.

I mean, think about it, if you were the ruler of a country and you had two superpowers currying favor from you, isn't there ANY way they could have used it to materially improve their peoples lives, instead of simply blowing it all on the latest machine gun model? Billions were spent between the 50s and 80s.

Its also interesting to view statistics such as noting that most of africa, most of south america, china, and india were at roughly the same levels of agricultural assistance in the 60s (all were net importers, needed massive aid, etc). A few African countries have progressed and made it on their own, but most are actually BELOW 1960s levels in self-sufficiency. :(

I spent 18 months in Kenya and Rwanda as a ngo worker in the past 3 years, they are definitely making more progress now than a decade ago, but I always find it amazing how easy people are able to shoot themselves in their own feet (metaphorically speaking). It really is two steps forward, three steps back most of the time...

Re:Going up?

[Captain Ed]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010111094200/...Infer iority.htm

Africa has to get new breed of humans (Opinion)
The Monitor (Kampala)
January 4, 2000
By Ssekitooleko Deo

Software Programmers in Ghana...

[timjones]

And you thought we had competition from steaming legions of Indian and Chinese programmers?

Most of the executive set I know (yes, in the USA) wouldn't consider buying an AUTOMOBILE from a third-world country like that, but they will do anything to have IT design (at least as complicated, when done properly) done in such places.

Something to think about...

Re:Software Programmers in Ghana...

[tarball_tinkerbell]

The answer's pretty obvious, if you do actually think about it.
First up, making an automobile takes not just man (woman?) power, but also metal and machinery and what-not. Given a reasonably good PC & UPS (to deal with blackouts), all it takes to write good code is a good brain, or a good codewriting brain to be specific.
Developing countries have terrible infrastructure, badly depreciated machinery, and poor maintenance of said machines. So, to put it simply, an automobile made there would be more likely to be unreliable - note, not guaranteed unreliable - than one made in the US or Europe or Indonesia.
But code?
Given the right training, someone from Ghana or Chad or Burkina Faso can write code that's as good as, if not better than, code written by anyone else in the world.
Simple.

Re:Software Programmers in Ghana...

[The Cydonian]

Precisely. Now you know why all these so-called third-world nations are so excited about IT; most believe it's their ticket to first-world-dom, whether on a personal level (ie jump hop to US/Europe), or on a societal level.

Re:Software Programmers in Ghana...

[timjones]

I've always UNDERSTOOD why they're excited.

That was not my point. The point is, if a place doesn't have enough infrastructure/education/people who can make a car, it is foolish to think that such a place can handle the latest software technology. The executives farm the work out anyway, get shoddy work (most of the time), but are still delighted that it only cost a fraction of what experienced Western programmers cost.

All these electricity problems are exactly what I'm talking about.

From what I've seen of foreign labor (since 1990), there's the occassional whiz who knows his stuff, lots of mediocrity, but mostly people who saw their first computer in their third year of university, and those people are just AWFUL (in skills, anyway).

Q: How can a person with such limited exposure to the culture of computers possible do quality work like an American or European who has been coding since pre-puberty? A: THEY CAN'T! But if they're cheap enough, the CEOs will gladly do the deal.

Re:Software Programmers in Ghana...

[Li0n]

very true

it's elitist to think that just because some people have an easier lifestyle, they must be also much smarter.

Mundungu! Call the president!

[El Jynx]

And tell him there's hyenas chewing on the power cables again!

Somehow I don't think that watching hyenas glow in the dark is what African IT experts thought their teachers meant when they were learning about Shockwave Flash.

I know Guido

[sbwoodside]

It just happens that I know Guido. I hope he doesn't mind if I talk about him and what I think about his situation. I want to say these things about him.

First, he WANTS to be in Ghana. This is a personal decision on his part, it's his home, it's where he grew up. So it's not like he's stranded there, you know, he went to university in the states and could easily be pulling in 100K if he were there, but he voluntarily returned to africa.

The biggest problem for him in Ghana is that his talent simply isn't recognized. The people who hire in Ghana aren't talented enough themselves to recognize a quality programmer. Most of the western companies that drop in shops in a place like that ship their own talent in as well, and they're not going to be looking for a top-notch coder/ sysadmin / webdesigner / all around talent to be found in-country. So getting a job that's worthy of his talent at all is tough.

Pay? The cost of living in Ghana is dirt-cheap compared to where I am (canada). I think that he would probably be well off at 10K a year (not a month!) and would be above average at half that. Think about that for a minute, if you're looking to hire a web developer he could be doing the work for 1/5 the price.

Unfortunately there are serious, serious problems with being located in Ghana. Just try to get internet access. Sure, there's an 80Gbps (yes, that's GIGA) pipe running JUST OFF SHORE ... the SAT-3/SAFE/WASC line that runs down the western coast of Africa to SA, and then over to india. But can Guido get access to that? Yeah, right! Instead the most reliable internet access is 2Kbps over a VSAT connection at BusyInternet. Anything else is very much intermittent. How can you work in conditions like that?

He'd have to pay $1500 to get his own VSAT (very small aperture terminal) and then $100s a month for a measly 32Kbps or less connection, ironically. Even though the people are poorer there, the bandwidth costs so much more. And could he run VoIP on that and save himself on longdistance? Not without running afoul of Ghana Telecom ... not yet.

It's a chicken and an egg problem. I have a lot of respect for Guido for being there and doing what he's doing. He's just a guy who wants to write code.

simon

PS If anyone reading this can push the right people to give up access to the SAT-3 fat pipe, please do...

Re:I know Guido

[Anonymous Coward]

I come from Ghana and the lack of a good telecom infrastructure has always been my major challenge.

I tried to open an internet cafe and felt so sad at the speed that I closed it down.

The bottom line: Please anyone who can help us in Ghana legally tap from the GIGA offshore, I would be indeed very happy. The truth is a lot of us want to go back to Ghana to help, but the current conditions it makes life very tough for us all these excellent talents but NO INFRASTRUCTURE!!!

Thanks,
kwasi tawia

Re:I know Guido

[sbwoodside]

The bottom line: Please anyone who can help us in Ghana legally tap from the GIGA offshore, I would be indeed very happy. The truth is a lot of us want to go back to Ghana to help, but the current conditions it makes life very tough for us all these excellent talents but NO INFRASTRUCTURE!!!

Yeah ... I talk about the gigabit pipe in another post. People who know people, please push them to free it up.

I'd mod you up but I already posted ...

simon

Re:I know Guido

[Anonymous Coward]

We're paying USD$65 a month for 50 hours of dialup access to Africa Online in Accra... so you're right, internet access is hardly cheap!

Re:I know Guido

[pommiekiwifruit]

Pah, there's a broadband cable and junction box passing 10 metres in front of my block of flats in London, but our chances of getting access to it (which would involve digging up a private road) are slim to say the least. I imagine tapping into an offshore cable is non-trivial from both physical and economic points of view...

Re:I know Guido

[Anonymous Coward]

no offense, but if you want to make ghana better: do it yourself. You tried to open an internet cafe but you felt sad about the speed so you closed it down? Why not agitate for better infrastructure? Why not organize with other internet cafe owners? Why not run for government? Why did you just say "oops too slow" and give up and go home? The US and Europe are not magic angels. We cant come in and fix everything. We tried to do that once, and it was called colonialism. You guys didnt like that too much. Here we dont have a wireless ethernet infrastructure, so what do people do? Start their own. You need to learn the lessons of America and Europe: organize, build and if necessary, demonstrate for whatever cause you want. If youre waiting for the infrastructure fairy to come and give you gigabit ethernet to every home in Ghana, or any other country on the planet, were still waiting here in the US, well let you know when it shows up.

Re:I know Guido

[sbwoodside]

They've landed the cable in Ghana at least ... so yeah, it's in a junction box, same situation as you have.

Re:I know Guido

[joggle]

The problem is that everything you mention takes money, the more the better. One reason why the US got off to such a good start was because a bunch of surprisingly ethical, brilliant and rich people got together and decided to build a new country. Unfortunately, it seems fairly uncommon to find people who are both ethical and rich (esp. in destitute countries, in part because the only way to get rich is by being unethical).

Sure, if you can get together a few multi-millionares who actually wanted to help, Ghana could be hooked up in no time (pay initial rents on access and conection to the 80 gig pipline, pay off the relevant officials/executives). It would probably take decades before they would ever get their money back and would be a very risky venture (which is why it won't happen tomorrow).

Re:I know Guido

[Suicyco]

Heh, well, the fact that the founding fathers were rich might have had something to do with the slave labor (african slave labor) to work their farms and large estates. Indentured servitude, slave labor, no women's rights... Hmmm, yes, highly ethical behavior. Or perhaps, they just needed a place with no laws and no political infrastructure in order to make up their own system that just so happened to coincide with their land-baron lifestyles. American capitalist imperialism is based on the ethics and morals of those men. Railroad tycoons, plantation owners, oil barons, ceo's. We are certainly successful, but who ever said ethics had anything to do with it? Actually, it takes exceedingly rich and UNethical tyrants to create the quick success that American has seen.

Re:I know Guido

[joggle]

Heh, well, the fact that the founding fathers were rich might have had something to do with the slave labor (african slave labor) to work their farms and large estates. Indentured servitude, slave labor, no women's rights...

Have you studied American history? First, a number of the founding fathers were against slavery (Adams and Franklin in particular; also Thomas Jefferson later freed his slaves, all of whom continued to work for him by their own free will). At the time, the founders from the North couldn't convince representatives from the South to give up their slaves, so they either had to form two seperate governments or write a Constitution which would at the present allow slavery (despite the obvious contradictions with the Declaration of Independence--treating all people as equals), but could in the future be changed without recreating the government (which was done by Amendment 13).

While these men weren't perfect, many of them certainly had some altruistic qualities, which is obvious if you had ever read any of Jefferson's, Washington's, Adam's or Franklin's papers (a good example would be the Federalist and Ant-Federalist Papers, which was an open debate about the forming of the new government).

Also, it is important to consider that these men were a product of their times. Slave labor and indentured servitude were very common at the end of the 18th century in many parts of the world (as it had been for the thousands of years preceding it). Also, while American women didn't have the rights then as they do now, they did eventually get them through another amendment of the Constitution and even back in the 18th century had many more rights than women in some Arab countries in the 21st century!! (freedom of speach, freedom of religion, freedom of picking one's spouse, freedom of divorcing one's spouse, freedom to travel (by one's self), freedom to choose their professions, etc.). There was obviously significant biases against them, but at least it was legal for them to do all of these things (just not always practical). If you have a better example of a government formed at the end of the 18th century that is still in existance, I'd love to hear about it.

We are certainly successful, but who ever said ethics had anything to do with it?

This is a rather unfortunate statement that I'm afraid many people may agree with nowadays. It's unfortunate because it could not possibly be any further from the truth. Ethics have everything to do with the success of people and governments. Governments and people that are plagued with corruption can not possibly compete against open societies. The reason that the US government has three branches with a thorough check and balance system is because the founders, above all, didn't trust individuals to act in the best interest of all. What happened to these plantation owners, railroad tycoons and CEO's? Well, for a while they did well, of course. But once the intransigences of these people exceeded what the public would tolerate, the government would right some laws and/or prosecute these individuals to cease these practices. This is how the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commision) came into existance (after the stock market crash in the 1929). This is why former CFOs of major coperations such as Enron, ImClone, and WorldCom, just to name a few, are facing serious charges and even lengthy prison sentences. One huge reason they got into this mess is because they believed what you do, that this is a country for the CEOs created by the CEOs (essentially) so they may achieve maximum profit and pleasure for themselves while, unbeknownst to them, the country is, as it always has been, a country for the people by the people!!

I can not emphasize this enough. People need to become less cynical and much more proactive (and pragmatic) towards maintaining the US democracy and staying as vigalent as ever about our government rather than simply whining and moaning all the time without doing anthing at all!! While the government may have been formed pragmatically and even altruistically, it requires a ton of maintenance and interaction with the people themselves to prevent it from falling apart.

Africa?

[Dahne]

Somehow, while thinking of good places to find a job, that continent really wouldn't be my first choice.

GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[jvarsoke]

I was a volunteer in 2000 for GeekCorps. And I can affirm most of what this guy was talking about is true. My job was to teach one guy how to code in Perl or PHP in 3 months. No problem, right? Heh.

For one thing the educational system in Ghana is completely based on rhote memorization. In programming you never see the exact same thing twice. Oh, you might see something similar, but never the exact same thing. Well, my Ghanian counterpart would sit there in front of a problem and just blindly try to apply the last thing I taught him. It took a lot of drawn out silences and lots of me sitting on my hands to get him to be a beginner programmer. But this was a success story, a year later he got into an American university for CS. And this year competed in an ACM contest. Wow.

Other things that the article doesn't really go into are aspects of doing business w/o contract law, not getting paid for 4 months, and often work only comes if you're aligned with the political party in vogue at the moment.

And getting a straight business plan or a requirements document out of Ghanians is impossible. These people want to do video conferencing via 14.4k modem, real-time purchases w/o credit cards, and door-to-door shipping when no place has a street address.

but don't get me wrong, best 4 months I ever spent. I'd go back in a second.

If you want to know more about it, check out: Geekhalla.org.

-j

Re:GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[Call Me Black Cloud]

Hell, I've been coding for years and you couldn't teach me perl in 3 month :)

Re:GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[Erik Hollensbe]

Well, that's because programming in perl and understanding perl are two completely different things. :)

Re:GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[Lachrymite]

I'm having very similar experiences right now.

All the techs here learn by rote, not by principles.

They're good at networking stuff like routers and whatnot. I'm teaching them to be passable at Linux administration, considering I got everything set up and running fine, and they just need to make sure nothing breaks.

But they have no concept on how to code, and I don't think it's something I'll be able to teach them.

I cannot emphasize how true it is that they just try to apply the exact same solution to every problem.

And the weirdest part is, they can learn some pretty arcane syntax fine for command line stuff in Linux fine, but they don't totally understand the concept of directories and file system structure. They know by memory how to type these complex commands, but they don't really grasp the idea of directories and the ability to tinker with stuff.

When I came here, I was a moderately talented if somewhat inexperienced Linux admin. I learn extremely quickly though, and I'm picking up stuff at a great pace. This is why I was brought here... We just get it on some level that these guys don't, due to having grown up around a more tech focused culture I guess.

Re:GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[jjga]

Well, my Ghanian counterpart would sit there in front of a problem and just blindly try to apply the last thing I taught him. It took a lot of drawn out silences and lots of me sitting on my hands to get him to be a beginner programmer. But this was a success story, a year later he got into an American university for CS.

I honestly find your comment condescending. I wonder why going to a US university to study is such a success, as though per se, US universities are better than those in Ghana. You just assume that, which is not right. You also seem capable, after spending just a few months in another country, to determine how good or bad professionals they are, how well they think, how well they reason... I wonder how much previous "western" teaching experience you had before going into Ghana, because you would be surprised about how many stupid people we have in Europe and the US.

By the way, I am not trolling, I spent a few years working in Africa (Argelia and Morocco) working in this kind of projects until I realized how easy to do the wrong thing is, and how extremely difficult it is to really be helpful going there.

Re:GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[Anonymous Coward]

American Universities are not the best, but they are better than Ghana's.

Pull your head out of your politically correct ass and take a look around.

Re:GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[sbwoodside]

Well, my Ghanian counterpart would sit there in front of a problem and just blindly try to apply the last thing I taught him.

Richard Feynman might agree:

After a lot of investigation, I finally figured out that the students had memorized everything, but they didn't know what anything meant. When they heard "light that is reflected from a medium with an index," they didn't know that it meant a material such as water.

simon

Re:GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[jjga]

No, you just assume that. You probably know even less about Ghana than myself (and I haven't the faintest idea on that country).

Re:GeekCorps: Accra, Ghana

[Anonymous Coward]

We just get it on some level that these guys don't, due to having grown up around a more tech focused culture I guess.

Maybe it's just because they're dumb niggers. Did you try enticing them with some watermelon?

Case it be 'dotted

[Anonymous Coward]

So's ya' wanna be some Web African honky codemer?

Monday April 21, 2003 - [ 09:07 AM GMT ]

Topic - Business - Guido Sohne - Accra, Ghana - Wo'kin' as some software developuh' in Web Africa
kin be some tryin' 'espuh'ience. ah' rememba' de days when, less dan two monds into startin' some
new company, we had t'endure da damn infamous "load-sheddin'" -- some practice uh cuttin' off
electricity t'whole secshuns uh de city in o'da' to conserve power. Ah be baaad... Neva' mind
dat ya' need electricity t'wo'k and ya' need t'wo'k t'eat. Man! Nowadays doodads is much betta'
-- dey plum cut off electricity widout any warnin' whutsoeva' o' de powa' fluctuates crazily
and da damn electricity co'po'ashun dinks dat be entirely no'mal. We plum have t'make savin'
every five minutes some habit as well as run journalled EXT3 stashsystems dat won't co'rupt
data even if de powa' browns out 5 times an hour. Ah be baaad.....

I kin't recon' de Califo'nians complained about rollin' brotherouts ! Preach it loud, bruddah!

Some sucka's gots it baaaad! Right on! Dere is so many doodads dat is snatchn fo' granted in
mo'e developed countries dat it be hard t'imagine da damn environment dat 'esists in Web Africa. WORD!
Let's snatch labo' supply fo' instance, if ya' is goin' t'run some software company ya'
basically gots dree choices, dig dis:

1) Hunt around fo' real baaaad honky codemers. Sell yo'
moda' to keep dem cuz' dat be whut ya' gots'ta t'do if ya' wants' dese prima-donnas t'stay.
Slap mah fro! Good luck! Preach it loud, bruddah!! Right on! Dese dudes is all fantasizin' about
bein' Bill Gates and if ya' duzn't look likes Bill and gots some pocket likes Bill...
Good luck! Preach it loud, bruddah!! Right on! I'll be seein' ya' on de oda' side, where da damn
grass be greener. Ah be baaad...

2) Process literally tons uh resumes. Each mond some ho'de uh new
honky codemers, freshly trained out uh NIIT mosey on down wid impressive lookin' syllabuses,
certificates etc. Co' got d' beat! claimin' skills in Java, C++, COM, Oracle, SQL, HTML and
MS Office. De problem be dat, dough de syllabus looks baaaad and would be some baaaad startin'
point fo' bein' some software developuh' in apprenticeship, de head homeboys spend hardly any time
wid de students. Dey plum churn students drough de institushun and probably kin't keep down wid de
demand fo' certificates.

Bottom line, dig dis: Dese dudes is less dan half-baked and kinnot do
productive wo'k. Ya' know? Not when ya' duzn't wanna lose da damn client. Man! And da damn guv'ment
wants's some Indian company t'invest into dis radical doodad t'de tune uh ova' $1,000,000?
God help us all.

3) De last choice be probably de most ludicrous. You's gots'ta teach dem how t'code.
ah' mean ya' find smart sucka's, hire dem off de street and teach dem how t'scribble honky codes.
Whut's wrong wid dis? ah' mean, we is tryin' t'make some profit developin' software but we find
ourselves runnin' some farm where we pay our students... Good joke! Preach it loud, bruddah!
But seriously, dis be whut ya' gots'ta do if ya' wanna make yo' business wo'k.
Ya' know? Ax' S.O.F.T if ya' duzn't recon' me. One approach gots been t'divide da damn problem
into some library dat duz de hard part, and code donkeys who do de tedious part. Man!
It wo'ks, no doubt about it. Man! But it results in poo' applicashuns. Very inefficient designs.
No innovashun. De same way uh hangin' doodads every time. Dere's no substitute fo' some baaaad
honky codemer. Ah be baaad... And whut choice do ya' gots when ya' kin't find many baaaad
honky codemers? Dis be not some vicious cycle. Far fum it. Man! It's some malicious environment.
Man! Survival uh de fittest, survival bein' de opuh'tive wo'd. Ahh, de life in Web Africa ...
we betta' haid upside to de beach befo'e we 'esplode in frustrashun o' kick d' cud from some
stress-induced heart attack. Ya' know?

Well, ya'

Anti-American Sentiment

[Paul E. Loeb]

This was probably not posted by someone from the U.S., but by someone just trying to get everyone riled up. People seem to think it's fun to criticize the U.S. these days. No matter what the article is about, the posts degrade into criticism of the U.S. This is a linux site, remember? If it was posted by someone in the U.S., it certainly doesn't represent everyone's opinion here. If you take garbage like that as representative of American values, you obviously have never been here. Yeah, there may be people like that here, but aren't there people like that where you live, too? People that speak without thinking, hate others out of fear of the unknown, etc. live everywhere, not just in the U.S. Do I assume you are an idiot just because your neighbor is? Regarding the post,I find it troubling that someone could so blatantly dismiss the problems of others and other nations. The post is so over the top that I can't believe that someone really felt that way. It's an obvious attempt to stir up anti-American sentiment in a forum where it doesn't belong.

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, at least we find out how many /.'ers hate jigaboos!

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[Call Me Black Cloud]

Don't see any anti-american sentiment. Perhaps you should re-read it. Now go back to your spanish homework.

By the way, could you tell Anna to return my sweatshirt? It's one of my favorites and I want it back. She'll know which one.

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[MillionthMonkey]

You're painting with a rather broad brush aren't you?

Just because there are a lot of articles about Linux doesn't make this a "linux site".

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[mackstann]

Ah, but unfortunately it most definitely is a linux site, whether or not you have noticed. :)

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[Call Me Black Cloud]

I knew you'd hate me for my comment. That's how Anna ended up with my sweatshirt...she hates that you're so predictable and temperamental...goes with being insecure I suppose. You're too high-maintenance.

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[easter1916]

Christ, you're full of it. Americans have spent the last decade lecturing the rest of us on how to run our economies, social lives, defense, etc. If you dish it out, be prepared to take it.

Oh, by the way -- your website is crap. Pretentious little twit.

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans have spent the last decade lecturing the rest of us on how to run our economies, social lives, defense, etc

God don't I know it, and you still can't seem to figure it out!

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[Anonymous Coward]

The IRA sucks by the way.

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[easter1916]

Good one!

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[easter1916]

Too easy. Fish in a barrel. And not the balls to post but anonymously. You have been trolled.

Re:Anti-American Sentiment

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, by the way -- your website is crap.

what are you talking about? paul is sexy!

I know what its like

[arvindn]

... for power to fail all the time.

we had to endure the infamous "load-shedding" -- a practice of cutting off electricity to whole sections of the city in order to conserve power.

They do that here in India too. Especially in the summer. The next few months are going to be pretty bad. It sucks, especially because I'm running a server on my lil' machine at home. (As if enduring 44 degrees C and near 100% humidity for a whole day weren't bad enough.)

Re:I know what its like

[The Cydonian]

Which raises a very curious point about energy. Yes, the world's masses are without power, telephone etc, yes, all that's necessary for *regular* IT development, but the question is, on ecological basis, can we sustain, say, American, energy levels on a global scale?

PS:- From India myself; I know what you're speaking about. My solution:- move to Delhi/Hyderabad! :-D

Re:I know what its like

[metlin]

Heyy! Madras isn't that bad either.

Where I live, I've just had have an odd outage or two a couple of times a month - not exceeding 10 mins each.

But yeah, the weather kinda sucks here, not to mention the traffic and the people :-p

Re:I know what its like

[The Cydonian]

Better in Georgia Tech eh? ;-) Congratulations!

Yes, there is now a definite geographical disparity in power quality, if I may use the term, and other lifestyle parameters in India. The ubiquitous cell-phone, for instance, which remarkably works even in deepest parts of south India, will stop working the moment you go beyond say, Gauhati or Shillong, in the North East. What's more, it's difficult to imagine the phone companies doing anything about it in the near future; the market there won't sustain the difficult cost of wiring up the hills. (My data is two years old; could be wrong of course).

My point:- we Indians are probably looking at two forms of digital divide, international and intra-national, a digital divide that doesn't augur too well for a multi-cultural land like ours.

PS:- Why HCI? Your earlier sig and your webpage seems to be filled more with AI than HCI.

Re:I know what its like

[metlin]

Better in Georgia Tech [slashdot.org] eh? ;-) Congratulations!

I'll find that out I guess, but hey thanks ;-)

The difference in quality is evident, but unfortunately, the people affected don't bother to say a thing, or even if they do its not heard. And the people who should do something have no economic viability. Its unfortunate, but thats one of the evils of Capitalism I suppose :-) Atleast its better than the other alternatives!

I do agree with your point on the digital divide, but there isn't much that we can do now, can we?

PS:- Why HCI? Your earlier sig and your webpage seems to be filled more with AI than HCI.

Actually its got both Graphics and AI, figured that HCI involves both :-)

Three reasons why HCI -

1] More realworld application scope than arcane theoretical CS stuff in AI (yeah, I've done all that too, but wouldn't want that as a career option)
2] Its multi-disciplinary - involves AI, Graphics, Design, Psychology and Engineering - so more fun ;-)
3] Better prospects in the industry, and equally good prospects for a Ph.D too.

More than that, these places have some neato projects and cool research with funky gizmos, so I just thought it would be more fun to work with ;-)

Well, I don't know about you guys, but...

[stephanruby]

...from now on, I'm forgetting all my dreams of turning Ghana into the Software Capital of the World.
I'll be staying in California. Thank you very much.

Re:Africans today are as racist as were the Nazis!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want to imply that your post wasn't well-considered, but you seem to be confusing Africans (they're the ones from Africa, for the most part) with African-Americans (the ones who live near you--I'm pretty sure you're an American).

Easy Funding

[Anonymous Coward]

At least getting operating capital should be easy, with so many business people and government officials offering to pay well for a little help.

Why, I have six business offers in my email just this morning! It would be so much easier to help those people when you're on the same continent.

What can be done? SAT-3/WASC/SAFE

[sbwoodside]

You probably haven't heard about it, but there's a fat pipe running down the coast of Africa with 20Gbps (yes, that's GIGA) of capacity. I've been following this story, and it's being wasted.

Home Page

Map

The max capacity of the cable is 120Gbps. It cost 0.65 billion to build and was a monumental sign of pan-african development 6 years ago when they bought it. Now it's finally in place.

technical

It's being wasted! It's a fat pipe, it's got something like 20x the bandwidth previously available in Africa (seriously...) but despite the obvious -- to me -- benefits to start using it Right Now, instead nothing seems to be happening.

Analysis: "...the benefits of this new capacity will not be unleashed on the national business environment"

The state telcoms in all these countries that control the access ... they are just going to sit on their hands because they have no vested interest. It's not on their radar screen to do anything with this cable, or to start selling access to regular people, like Guido. Instead, they are all slowly or quickly going out of business and dragging the market down with them. Installing the cable was only half of it. The other half is freeing the bandwidth.

simon

::: Check out rural wireless 802.11 on the wireless-longhaul@openict.net mailing list. subscribe or check out the project page :::

Help needed everywhere

[Roto-Rooter Man]

I sympathize with his plight, but the reality is that many IT professionals throughout the world are facing similar, or worse, obstacles.

How do the challenges facing African developers compare to the trials of computer geeks in Afghanistan, for instance?

No wonder it was so hard.

[Anonymous Coward]

3 months?! I think that it'd be pretty hard to learn any prog. language in just three months.

exhibit of power of human

[jsse]

a practice of cutting off electricity to whole sections of the city in order to conserve power.

It's not the worse thing you could find in Africa. I've seen how they work with a donated SUN workstation in a school where electricity is inaccessible.

To use the workstation you must have another one power it up with bicycle-dynamo. The user gotta type real fast before your partner exhausted - that means playing game is out of question. :)

That's how many of those donated workstations are being used. I'm very impressed by their eagerness of learning. In them I see what real geeks look like. :)

Learn more

[sbwoodside]

Obviously I'm really into the whole situation of IT in Africa (they call it ICT .. the C is for communications). Here are some links for you to look at. A lot of them are really oriented towards WiFi too since I think that's the "last best hope" for the internet in Africa

Weblogs:
riptari filter

m u l t i p l i c i t y

R Alden

News

Balancing Act: Africa This looks dense but it's the BEST news source about ICT in africa and getting better all the time. Very reliable too.

Shameless plug
I wrote about using the open source model for (ICT) development here and some other stuff from here.

Stories

Laos

You've already heard about that ... but this much more story and pictures about another project:

Pictures, stories, of setting up the real thing in Bhutan a country you've maybe never even heard of ... but they have a WiFi based VoIP long-distance system that doesn't even need electrical grid to work.

I'll leave you with one that's going on right now ... the Digital Plains of India.

simon

Vim

[mackstann]

Vim - you know, Vi Improved? You ever actually read the :help iccf it tells you about when you start it up?

VIM - Vi IMproved

version 6.1.48
by Bram Moolenaar et al.
Vim is open source and freely distributable

Help poor children in Uganda!
type :help iccf for information

type :q to exit
type :help or for on-line help
type :help version6 for version info
(slashcode insisted on fucking that up, oh well, you get the point)

Go read it sometime, it's pretty interesting, and was how I first became aware of this subject. Dunno if I'll ever move to africa... but hey, it's just one more idea to kick around for the remainder of your 70-some years on the planet.

hey, watch it...

[g4dget]

Power problems aren't that bad here in Califo#%*(!.

Re:What can be done?

[stephanruby]

They should legalize corruption -- then may be they'll have enough people with vested interest to do something about this.

Re:Africans today are as racist as were the Nazis!

[Anonymous Coward]

I take great solace in the fact that your punishment in this life is having to wake up and just be you. The horror. The horror.

African ????? What...??? Re:Going up?

[yogkarma]

Why all the time people use terms like African this and African that. I mean why not European American and European Australian.???

Re:African ????? What...??? Re:Going up?

[opkool]

Errr...

You've never read the article, haven't you?

The article is by and about a web developer that lives and works in Ghana. Last time I checked, Ghana was part of the African continent.

And then, someone moded you up "Insightful" when you should have been moded "go read the article / check your geography".

Jeeeeez!

Re:African ????? What...??? Re:Going up?

[LostCauz]

I think you missed the point of their post.

Re:African ????? What...??? Re:Going up?

[Lemmy Caution]

I am in complete and utter awe of your stupidity.

I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Lachrymite]

I'm currently in Nigeria, working for a company that's an ISP with plans to expand into fixed wireless phone stuff as well. I'm pretty much their head (and debateably only) technical person, and the only other non-Nigerian here besides the head of the company. The Nigerian techs are okay at what they do (mainly making sure the routers and satellite connection are fine), but fall apart on anything related to configuring the Linux servers. They're enthusiastic learners though, even if they lack the technical background to pick things up very quickly. I was specifically imported for this purpose, setting up their servers, making sure everything runs smoothly, and helping the Nigerian techs learn how to keep the machines running. My role has expanded to include web development of internal apps as well, since I have a very strong background with web dev stuff.

That said, working in Nigeria is absurd, both frustrating and amusing at the same time.

The biggest problem here is the power. The power goes out between three and twenty times a day. We have an extensive UPS and generator system that keeps all our machines online.

We have a side division of our company that does major installs of networks for local companies and government agencies. I was brought to a site to survey putting a 300 machine network into a building with no roof. All of the individual offices did have roofs, but the main part of the building with the hallways connecting everything together was completely open to the elements. Furthermore, the doors of the offices were of very poor construction, so dust and rain could easily come from underneath and mess up everything inside. We're trying to convince them to put a roof on the building, just even a glass one or something, but it looks like they're just going to be having a lot of inhospitable operating conditions for their hardware instead.

The strangest part is that this isn't at all unusual... In another instance, a company wanted a 20 machine network installed, and freaked out when they saw cabling and routers on the bill. They said they didn't ask for that. They didn't understand you needed these things to actually connect the computers together on the network.

It's a good thing I'm incredibly laid back and just find everything kind of funny, or I probably would have jumped off a roof by now.

Assuming I could find a building with a roof...

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. Mod parent up. Good luck to you Lachrymite you made my, uh, night.

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Anonymous Coward]

>Assuming I could find a building with a roof...

I don't know why this guy was marked up with interesting. Funny yes but interesting?

I grew up in Sierra Leone and I HAVE NOT seen any building without a roof. Not even mud houses in villages deep into the interior of the country are without roofs. It is more like an INSULT. They may be poor in West Africa and ignorant of technology to a degree but they are NOT stupid.

I find the power outages in Nigeria weird. In Sierra Leone, Freetown the capital to be specific, it was the case because fuel was a problem (except Bo Town which had hydroelectric power) but Nigerian towns/cities that get to have power stations?

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Lachrymite]

Wow, somebody is rather easily insulted. Sorry for attempting to inject a little humor at the end of the comment there, my mistake.

Like I said, the individual offices DO have roofs. However, the hallway is completely open to the elements.

Have you ever been to any government buildings in Nigeria?

There's basically three layers; an outermost square of offices, a middle ring of a walkway, and an inner square that's just open air. There is NOTHING keeping the elements out between the inner square of open air and the walkway except four a three and a half foot tall railing, leaving some six feet of open air. Some of the buildings have a glass cover over the open air on the top floor, but this one doesn't, and there's no plans to put one. If it ever rains heavily with a wind, they're all completely fucked, because the wind blows the rain sideways into the hallway area, and the drainage isn't sufficient to get all the water out in time, so it floods and comes seeping under all the office doors.

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Anonymous Coward]

I once saw a TV programme about Nigeria's main international airport in the capital city (in immitation of the UK programme "The Airport" about London Airport). Boy what a farse that was. It was like a comedy show...

The camera crew is driving to the airport, of course people are driving on the wrong side of the road on the motorway.

The person in charge at the airport orders that some bushes be removed. So they pour a tank of petrol over the bushes to burn them off because it's too damp to make them burn by themselves.
Then the person in charge orders them to take the car around the perimeter of the airport to patrol for people growing vegetables on airport land. So the car runs out of petrol, but they can't refill it because they burned the petrol up on the bushes. So they guys get out and push the damn car around the entire perimeter of the airport rather than having the inititive to walk instead of lugging a car around manually.
And then there is the issue of the baggage handling conveyorbelt breaking down daily.
And the car parked in the middle of the runway where the plane is meant to land.
And people trying to grow their food in the airport, which has the said armed guards with the job of ripping their vegetables out due to the security risk they pose.
And that for goodness knows what reason people keep insisting on driving on both sides of the road.

Really I wish colonialism hadn't happened. Africans aren't stupid, but they've had 'modernty' thrust onto them which they neither fully understand nor can cope with. Your examples of people wanting networked computers without cables and a server installation without a roof are pretty familiar for anybody who knows Africa. It reminds me of what the S. African government was trying to do to 'bridge the digital devide' - sending trucks laden with tens of thousands of dollars of computers into the poorest slums so they could browse all half dozen webpages in their language to help them out of extreme poverty. Funnily enough someone nicked their power cable. Then again, this is the country which has a government that thinks any idea that HIV causes AIDs is a white racist plot.

The African renassance can either make you laugh or cry. Probably the latter would be more appropriate.

Now, if only the damn electricity companies here would produce enough power to keep the lights on 11 months or more per year...

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Anonymous Coward]

I am Chinese and currently live in Hong Kong and I doubt I'll ever be visiting Nigeria in the near future.

All the pictures of buildings in the towns/cities of Nigeria that I have seen are very much like those in Freetown. Multi-storey buildings made of concrete or bricks in the important centres with modern looking designs.

I seriously doubt the descriptions you have given of the buildings that the Nigerian government uses.

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Lachrymite]

Africans aren't stupid, but they've had 'modernty' thrust onto them which they neither fully understand nor can cope with.

I think this definitely sums up the whole thing perfectly. It's completely true... the people here aren't dumb, and they're very interested in learning, but they've just been dumped into this digital age they really don't have the background for.

It reminds me of what the S. African government was trying to do to 'bridge the digital devide' - sending trucks laden with tens of thousands of dollars of computers into the poorest slums so they could browse all half dozen webpages in their language to help them out of extreme poverty.

This is also extremely true. They just seem to have weird priorities in general (not that Western nations don't a lot of the time). They're building this huge impressive monument nearby, and down the road there are people living in huts constructed from tarps and sheet metal.

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Lachrymite]

Riiight, I'm just making this up because I enjoy fabricating accounts of third world living conditions on the internet. I'm sure your pictures are much more reliable sources of information that my obviously lying ass that claims to have been walking around in these buildings.

What the hell would I have to gain by making up stories about this? You freely admit to being largely ignorant about this, having never been to Nigeria, and yet you still question the truth of my statements.

I never said the buildings weren't multistory, or that they weren't made of concrete or bricks. But they're made very shoddily, and with design flaws that cause major troubles for networking equipment! Is it that hard for you to understand that?

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Afty0r]

I live in the UK and in any of the major cities you will see 10, 20 and 30 story glass sided and concrete buildings with lighting, etc. some of which are beautifully architected.

Our government buildings on the other hand are usually 50 years old or more situated out of the centre of the town or city. My father and mother were both "lifers" in the employ of the goverment and only once in their 30+ year careers worked in buildings designed to be "permanent". They spend decades working in an emergency hospital built for world war 2 designed to last just ten years (it's still there 60 years later) and from the way it was built (long corridors, wards either side, private rooms converted to private offices etc.) you could tell it was an old hospital. It was expanded by using static caravan-style portacabins and then just pebble-dashing them to make them look permanent. I'm a tall, heavy guy and when I did work experience there it felt like I was about to fall through the floor.

If this is the state of government buildings in the UK, I can well believe the posters accounts of government buildings in Nigeria.

In general, government work is drudgery. Requires being able to read and write and process rules written in big books, it's not rocket science. As such many workers outside of the "senior" levels are temporary workers, or just rather thick, and as such these people don't go demanding wonderful office environments - if they wanted that (and warranted it) they could go work in industry, if they could get past an interview.

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[minkwe]

The electricity company in Cameroon, Nigeria's eastern neighbour is owned by an American company. Yet things are not any better wrt power failures.

Your assessment of the problem in Africa is insulting, or fallacious at best. Colonialism is the root of the problem. However, the problem is not because Africans can't cope with modernity, or don't understand it, but because of lack of accountable governments, which were put in place by the colonialists when they left. It's been almost half a century and most of the governments are still in place. It is very difficult to replace such governments. Most people fail to realise that African countries are not poor. Power failures are not due to lack of enough electricity. All the problems can be traced to lack of accountability of the government. The electric company does not care about maintaining hardware because there is nobody to hold them acountable for it. All these problems gradually disappear in a true democracy. Show me a true democracy in central/west Africa and I'll show you a functioning society.

I'm an African, and I'm currently in Sweden where I work as a Sysadmin. Where I work nobody knows shit about computers. I don't expect them to understand what routers are, so you should expect to explain technical details to your client in understandable language irrespective of wether they are african or not.

I refuse to believe that all offices in Nigeria are built to the specification the parent poster cited. It's not every house in the US or Europe that would be free from flood or fire or any other disaster. Just because the poster has encountered a bad case does not justify generalising in that manner. Just because the poster claims to be in Nigeria does not make him an authority on nigerian affairs either!

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[ArsSineArtificio]

Colonialism is the root of the problem.

The lack of colonialism is the root of the problem. Once upon a time, the government actually built power plants, railroads, and telephone networks.

Then everyone asked the government to leave. Fine.

Blaming Africa's problems on anybody but the Africans is ridiculous. You're on your own now. Good luck and have fun.

Go on, tell me how the average resident of a sub-Saharan African country was worse off back when a colonial British or French government was building infrastructure, administering courts, and suppressing tribal warfare and sharia.

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Lachrymite]

I refuse to believe that all offices in Nigeria are built to the specification the parent poster cited. It's not every house in the US or Europe that would be free from flood or fire or any other disaster. Just because the poster has encountered a bad case does not justify generalising in that manner. Just because the poster claims to be in Nigeria does not make him an authority on nigerian affairs either!

You seem to be getting a tad irrationally defensive, responding to claims I never made.

I did not state that all offices in Nigeria are built without roofs. As a matter of fact, I specifically mentioned many of them do have roofs, which is why we were pissed about this one not having one. Neither did I ever claim to be an authority on Nigerian affairs (although my employer, who has been living here for four years and is close friends with many members of the Nigerian government is something of an authority on Nigerian affairs and agrees with my comments; hell, so do most of the Nigerians I've talked to). What I have done is present my experiences working so far in this country, and those experiences have been that the country isn't up to the same levels of Europe or America in areas of infrastructure.

so you should expect to explain technical details to your client in understandable language irrespective of wether they are african or not.

The point isn't whether these people are African, or American, or European, or Asian, or damned Martians. The point is that they have no technical background whatsoever, so it's much more difficult for them to get up to speed. It's exactly the same as teaching someone like my mother, who has almost no computer experience. While young people in most Western countries generally have had experience with computers through just tinkering around on home PCs, young people with this background in Nigeria are few and far between. This is changing now, as more cybercafes pop up all over the place, and in twenty years the children of Nigeria today will have far more early experience with it.

And besides all that, these people aren't even clients, they're supposed to be technical people themselves!

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[easter1916]

As a citizen of a former British colony (Ireland) I think I can fairly say that colonialism is not the problem. Ireland had it hard under the British, blah-blah-blah, but 50 years after independence the place was still an economic backwater with low incomes, by western European standards. What changed in the last 25 years? People stopped blaming the Brits, the government, anybody but themselves for their problems and started working hard, starting small business, availing of the excellent free education system and so on.

I don't deny that colonialism can cause problems, and I certainly disagree with the tone and content of the parent post, but there's a good deal of truth in. You ARE on your own now. African nations are responsible for their own destinies. Have a revolution if your governments are corrupt, un-democratic and inefficient.

Re:I'm currently in Nigeria.

[Anonymous Coward]

>Colonialism is the root of the problem.

Corruption (greed, love of money, doesn't the Bible say that the love of money is the root of all evil?) is the root of the problem. Sierra Leone used to have a currency stronger than the HK Dollar and a working railway into the interior of the country.

After the British were told to leave, Sierra Leone started its decline. When I was still there, before the stupid 'rebels' started making serious trouble, you could find areas all over Freetown that had broken pipes, roads with holes everywhere and newspapers would ask why people vote for persons who only know how to go abroad and bring back flashy cars and build big houses.

Hong Kong's government gives the impression that they favour businesses and the elite are mostly businessmen too. Now the British Government is not perfect but neither Sierra Leone nor Hong Kong can really blame them for their current problems.

America's got its problems too

[bfinuc]

Americans... don't really realize how good [they] have.

True. Or how bad. I tried wholesaling UPSs in Germany, but there is no market for them. Why? No power outages. Meanwhile, my sister in law in Lexington, KY reports that after a recent ice storm, they went three days without power and there was widespread looting. She lost her TV and stereo. No wonder those rednecks running (or not running) Iraq take such a relaxed attitude. It's just like home. The solution is to run the power lines underground, but that would require investment in infrastructure.

Europeans cope with ridiculous gasoline prices (1 a quart!) by buying fuel efficient cars. Americans cope with their awful electricity infrastructure buying USPs and guns. Poles and Russians can repair just about anything. It is impossible to try to explain to your average Korean what a dump Seoul is, because he can't imagine a city that is actually pleasant.

Poor countries have spurts of growth unimagineable in rich counties. Look what's going on in China. It's partly because they see rich countries in other places and know things could be better. Backwards places like Pakistan don't progress partly because they don't see the need to. They can't imagine a better place. There was a huge debate in India among Hindu fundamentalists about whether the flyover pictures of Southern California in a popular TV series showing all the swimming pools were real or just CIA backed propaganda.

Once the entire world is equalized, and every talks to everyone, the will be a burst of growth and then all progress will stop, because no one will aspire to anything better.

Re:America's got its problems too

[jafuser]

Once the entire world is equalized, and every talks to everyone[...]

I, for one, will welcome our new genetically engineered bovine-arachnid crypto-marxist subterrianian viking overlords.

Re:America's got its problems too

[Anonymous Coward]

And guns have what to do with our power problems? You must have some extreme misconception of either guns, or gun owners, or you decided that you just have to put an anti gun comment in you posting to make you feel better, even if it has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. That only makes one look more like an idiot when posting. Feel free to continue, idiots are usually my dose of humor for the day.

Re:America's got its problems too

[carlos_benj]

I believe the gun comment was in reference to the looting during a power outage that he mentioned just prior. I didn't see it as an anti-gun comment at all, though I suppose it could be.

Re:America's got its problems too

[Anonymous Coward]

There will always be something better or something to strive higher for. Always.. it's just the nature of man.

Re:America's got its problems too

[shumway]

Europeans cope with ridiculous gasoline prices (1 a quart!) by buying fuel efficient cars.

err, actually, it's us in the US with the ridiculous gas prices, subsidized (see this also) to keep us happy.

Re:America's got its problems too

[Anonymous Coward]

Poles and Russians can repair just about anything.

So, what are living conditions in Russia like, hmmm?

Re:America's got its problems too

[Anonymous Coward]

Once the entire world is equalized, and every talks to everyone, the will be a burst of growth and then all progress will stop, because no one will aspire to anything better.

You're nuts. Those fundamentalists you speak of very likely share much of the same utopian ideology as you do and also want to see history grind to a halt. That sort of ideology is basically ignorance codified. "Equality" is not what enables progress, apart from equal protection under the law, assuming the laws are meant to protect people instead of burdening or destroying them. And when people stop aspiring to better themselves or their condition, we'll be in big trouble.

Re:America's got its problems too

[dustmite]

Backwards places like Pakistan don't progress partly because they don't see the need to. They can't imagine a better place.

I was with you up until this silly statement. Of course the people of Pakistan are capable of imagining improving their lives. It might interest you to know that Pakistan is actually in the middle of a mini economic boom at the moment.

There are many reasons why poor countries seem to struggle to crawl out of it, but the idea that it is because they lack the imagination to imagine a better life is definitely not one of them.

Re:America's got its problems too

[Anonymous Coward]

There are quite a number of them though who are tought from childhood on to believe that the only way to better yourself is to kill and get killed.

Re:America's got its problems too

[cybercuzco]

Fool! the guns are to keep people from looting your stereo when the power goes out.

Re:America's got its problems too

[bfinuc]

As has been pointed out, I was talking about guns as an anti looting mechanism

Re:America's got its problems too

[dustmite]

I think you are confusing Pakistan with Palestine.

Not easy teaching CS in Ghana

[Otisserie]

I taught computer science in a Ghanaian university in the early 80s, and had a number of smart, competent students. But the educational environment didn't give them much of a chance:

1. We used an IBM 370 with punch cards. The card reader was frequently broken so the students had to write out the programs and I graded them by hand. They were never run.
2. University students have to apply to a specific department to be admitted, not the university itself. The CS department was considered easier to get in than some others, so some students with no interest in CS applied to that department just to get in the university.
3. Text books were difficult and expensive to get. And mostly out of date.
4. Brain drain: the best graduates moved to the U.S. or U.K., leaving the rest back in Ghana.
5. Indifferent or incompetent professors. I was just out of school myself and, while I worked hard, I just didn't have the experience to be a good teacher. Other lecturers were more interested in their next "educational" trip to London to bother teaching students.

With that kind of education it's amazing anyone there can program at all.

West Africa..

[Anonymous Coward]

Mali makes Ghana look like Silicon Valley... :)

Re:West Africa..

[Thrazzle]

But Mali is a great place.

Re:West Africa..

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah.. it is, actually. Strange as it sounds, I don't really want to leave *shrugs*

Line the ducks up why don't you...

[Thaidog]

...what is it called when somebody posts something that seems legit, but knows what will happen to the subject once released to the public? Flamebait? Good thing I got that USB to NES adapter for the Duck Hunt gun... Ok next article: Word association... and AMD chip looks like a.... cracker! BLAM! I just can't miss...

A thought...

[Isldeur]

[I posted this over there at newsforge. Hopefully it will reach the author.]

Greetings to Ghana! It was only 2 years ago that I spent a super month working in a hospital in Kenya. Great people, and I salute you!

The author here mentions an interesting point about paying to train/teach students. This gave me a thought. The first being that every job is, naturally, always training its employees in it's methods and ways from when they start work.

Now that wasn't wat the author meant, I know. But how about this: I'm just about (hopefully!) to finish medical school. I'll then enter a period called a residency where I'm being paid, but the learning experience is far from over. Most people believe that residents are still students, and I'd have to agree. It's the first time we actually get to treat people largely ourselves, with the watchful eye of our superiors, naturally.

Medicine dictates that. It needs to start paying these "students" because few if any could hold out any more without a paycheque. Perhaps that's the mentality the author needs in Ghana?

Find some people who really *want* to learn and have that drive. Maybe they never had the opportunities at this college. They will be the ones who stand to you.

Best wishes & greetings!

Re:A thought...

[Isldeur]

I have to add something to that which is posted above. I feel for that guys infrastructural problems. I really do. When we were in Kenya for that month, checking email was a revelation. It would literally take anywhere from 5 - 10 minutes to even load up my webmail app (neomail - hardly bandwidth heavy).

I can feel what he's going through. I only wish whatever ponces could get off their hands and open up that pipe running down the West coast.

Congratulations

[Anonymous Coward]

It's great that you traveled halfway across the world to feel better about yourself.

Re:Congratulations

[Lachrymite]

Actually, I travelled halfway across the world for lots of money.

Re:Congratulations

[Anonymous Coward]

heheh - nice comeback

Finally the answer!!

[FyRE666]

#1 Read Slashdot.
#2 Set up company exporting cheap UPS' to Ghana.
#3 Profit!

Put Ghana's extra money to work

[bruthasj]

This one guy told me they had millions of dollars in a Swiss account that they wanted to forward to me -- he had some connection with the government I think. Could we somehow utilize this seemingly untapped resource sitting in the hands of locals to fund better resources for the country as a whole?

t-i-c.

Re:Africans today are as racist as were the Nazis!

[Anonymous Coward]

[...] The horror. The horror.

I know it is you, Taco. You can't complete a paragraph without stuttering anything a second or second or second time.

Re:Africans today are as racist as were the Nazis!

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree, and the only reason I'm going to bother to post is because I've been up all night.

Listen to what Christ Rock has to say about the difference between black people, and 'niggas' - it's comedy, but it actually makes sense. After all, you or I would distinguish between a white person and 'trailer trash' (aka white trash, rednecks, hicks, hillbillies, crackers, etc), so the same sort of distinction should be reserved for 'nigger,' I think. (I refuse to use 'African American' because I'm not a 'European American' - I'm an American. Plain, and simple. If you want to distinguish farther, I'm white.

Libya? Ah, Egypt...

[Anonymous Coward]

oh no? Well those are in Africa.

i.t. news of the upmost confidence

[Anonymous Coward]

request for urgent i.t. business relationship
first, i must solicit your strictest confidence in this transaction. this is by virtue of its nature as being utterly confidential and 'top secret'. i am sure and have confidence of your ability and reliability to prosecute a transaction of this great magnitude involving a pending transaction requiring maxiimum confidence. i got your name from slashdot.

we are top i.t. official of the federal government contract review panel who are interested in imporation of software and technology into our country with funds which are presently trapped in nigeria. in order to commence this business we solicit your assistance to enable us transfer into your account the said trapped funds.

the source of this fund is as follows; during the last military regime here in nigeria, the government officials set up i.t. companies and awarded themselves contracts which were grossly over-invoiced in various ministries. (typical for i.t. consultants) the present civilian government set up a contract i.t. review panel and we have identified a lot of inflated contract funds which are presently floating in the central bank of nigeria ready for payment.

however, by virtue of our position as i.t. civil servants and members of this i.t. panel, we cannot acquire this money in our names. i have therefore, been delegated as a matter of trust by my colleagues of the panel to look for an overseas partner into whose account we would transfer the sum of us$21,320,000.00(twenty one million, three hundred and twenty thousand u.s dollars). hence we are writing you this letter. we have agreed to share the money thus; 1. 20% for the account owner 2. 70% for us (the officials) 3. 10% to be used in settling taxation and all local and foreign expenses. it is from the 70% that we wish to commence the importation business.

please,note that this transaction is 100% secure since we have used ssh and kerbos to end you this email and we hope to commence the transfer latest seven (7) banking days from the date of the receipt of the following informatiom by tel/fax; 800-suc-medry, your i.t. company's signed, and stamped letterhead paper the above information will enable us write letters of claim and job description respectively. this way we will use your i.t. company's name to apply for payment and re-award the contract in your company's name.

we are looking forward to doing this i.t. business with you and solicit your confidentiality in this transation. please acknowledge the receipt of this letter using the above tel/fax numbers. i will send you detailed information of this pending project when i have heard from you.

yours faithfully,

dr clement okon (director nigerian i.t. consultants)

note; please quote this reference number (ve/s/09/99) in all your responses.

Great Discussion, Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a great discussion and I'd like to thank all the people who have been sharing their personal experiences with IT in Africa. It's great to get a wider understanding of my industry and the world.

(I'm posting this AC so as not to karma whore.)

Well then, keep all that money!

[jpellino]

Jeez, with things this bad, you'd think they'd stop trying to URGENT!!!! ship THE SUM OF $US 25 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!! out of six countries from a hundred SON | WIFE OF MURDERED FORMER LEADER!!!! twenty times a day to my mailbox alone. BTW I already tried telling them to call (202) 324-3000 (FBI HQ) - they don't get it.

You got it ALL wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the cuisine which is gettin' our African brothers down; it's their big fat black cocks. Them big black dicks make 'em hella horny and that's why black women fight white women while asian women take it on the sly: big delicious black dick.

Don't tell whitey.

They make their IT folks out of iron there!

[HarveyBirdman]

Let's see some wimpy American geek deal with a router that's been gored by a rhinoceros.

Think anyone at Yahoo! has had to deal with a lion stalking around their server farm? Ha!

Hey, you know those clicking noises in the Bushman language? Are there HTML codes for those?

Re:They make their IT folks out of iron there!

[TKinias]

scripsit HarveyBirdman:

Hey, you know those clicking noises in the Bushman language? Are there HTML codes for those?

Well, checking the Unicode pages, I find:

• LATIN LETTER DENTAL CLICK: ǀ
• LATIN LETTER LATERAL CLICK: ǁ
• LATIN LETTER ALVEOLAR CLICK: ǂ
• LATIN LETTER RETROFLEX CLICK: ǃ

So yes, there are. I note, however, that in Zulu orthography the first two and the last can be rendered with x, c, and q, respectively. Cake. See the Latin Extended-B code page.

Steaming legions?

[frostman]

I am trying to picture steaming legions of Indian and Chinese programmers.

Somehow it doesn't come into focus.

When you talk about "legions" of programmers, I think you miss the point that programmers are fairly high up the professional scale there too.

And as for "steaming" I have no idea what you mean, since I'm sure you don't mean to sound racist here.

Re:Steaming legions?

[timjones]

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt on being racist. I absolutely am not .

By "Steaming", I guess I was referring to the notion that all programmers are interchangable, even recent grads from third-world countries lacking basic infrastructure. (Think: steaming pile of ______).

But upon further reflection, there are plenty of American 'coders' glutting the market who have only recently discovered there are actually programs other than shoot-em-up games. They are equally ill-equipped to design and run mission-critical business applications, yet they get snapped up for being cheap.

I am always prepared to compete (and win) on merits, but it getting harder to win against people who only ask for mere pennies on the dollar in wages. (now I know why Gates hates Linux so much!)

Maybe 'steaming' is also applicable to my increasingly bad attitude about this topic. (surely we can agree on that!)

best regards, tim

They know about aids

[HanzoSan]

Their religion tells them to have multiple wives however and brothers take care of each others wife if one dies.

Good system until Aids came. Asking them to change is like asking christians to have sex before marriage.

Re:They know about aids

[carlos_benj]

There are a lot of different spiritual beliefs in Africa.

Asking them to change is like asking christians to have sex before marriage.

Shouldn't be too hard then as many who profess to be Christians volunteer without having to be asked.

Re:They know about aids

[Lionfish]

Ironically there is also a pretty strong conservative catholic influence in parts of africa. Now, they have to deal with the catholic stance towards birth control (read: condoms).

Re:They know about aids

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe you meant:

Now, they have to deal with the catholic stance towards birth control (read: fidelity or abstinence)

Re:They know about aids

[Anonymous Coward]

except that after they marry they still dont use condoms wich makes kids wich get aids themselves its all a vicious cycle.

Re:They know about aids

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe he meant:

Now, they have to deal with the Catholic stance towards sex (read: fuck an alterboy).

Americans and supremacy

[Anonymous Coward]

The Nigerian techs are okay at what they do (mainly making sure the routers and satellite connection are fine), but fall apart on anything related to configuring the Linux servers. They're enthusiastic learners though, even if they lack the technical background to pick things up very quickly.

Nevermind. Lucky them that have you, the Mighty American, to save them.

Seriously, do not you realize about the tone of supremacy in your message?

Re:Americans and supremacy

[Lachrymite]

It's not about being American. It's about having grown up using computers, something nobody here has had access to. I'm sure anyone that grew up in a digital society could do the same thing.

God, some of you are so anti-American that you just don't get it. These guys have no more background experience using Unix than I do at surviving on the streets of Lagos. I mean, if you want to talk about arrogance, how arrogant is it of you to assume that I'm considering myself superior because I'm American and not because of the fact that I have, everyone try not to gasp in shock now, a technical background?

The funniest part is, I'm getting shit over being an American, whereas if I was from Britain or Canada, nobody would think twice about this.

Way to go on jumping all over the assumptions bandwagon, bonehead.

Re:Americans and supremacy

[Anonymous Coward]

The funniest part is, I'm getting shit over being an American, whereas if I was from Britain or Canada, nobody would think twice about this

And why do you think that could be?

Re:Americans and supremacy

[Anonymous Coward]

because a lot of people are ignorant, judgmental, and prejudiced against americans?

Re:Americans and supremacy

[Anonymous Coward]

And why is it just with USAmericans? You don't get it, do you?

Re:Americans and supremacy

[foriegnb]

Sorry, I'm British (I just happen to live in the Bay Area) and I don't get it either. Maybe you should clearly explain your problem with 'USAmericans'. What are they anyway? Is that as opposed to South Americans?

Re:Americans and supremacy

[joggle]

Because guess who is on the news? Norway? Canada? Switzerland? Nope, it's the USA, duly prejudiced by your local (and international) media companies and/or government. Frankly, there isn't a perfect government on this planet, but currently the one walking around with the biggest stick and biggest voice is the US, which provokes responses from everyone else.

Everyone always talks about how other countries, such as Canada, are superior (morally and in other ways) to the US. But does anyone ever critically consider the merits of this? Of course they don't because they don't want to put out the time and effort it would take to form an informed opinion (besides, it would be a waste of time since they know that they're right!!). Rather, they will just spout off of what they've heard (which is often heavily biased and utterly false) and have selective memories.

For example, it was rather convenient for all of the Muslims (excepting Iraqi exiles and Kuwaities) to forget about the autrocities commited by Saddam Hussein's regime while the war went on in Iraq, isn't it? Did you hear of the story where journalists working for Al Jazeera were attacked by a mob of Iraqis living in Detroit for this very reason?

In short, everyone is biased and even brain washed. If the Shia clerics in Iraq tell their people to cooperate with the US military, they'll do exactly that. If a week later they tell them to go and rid the country of the 'Infedels' they will gleefully go and attempt to kill every last military person there. My point is that people need to form their own informed opinions rather than acting like brainless fools.

Re:Americans and supremacy

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of that anti-American is coming directly from American media, government, and corporations. In case you haven't noticed, there *is* an opposition party in America (unlike most countries, including Canada), and they're fairly unpopular with a large majority of the American people. Therefore, they export their hatred, loathing, bigotry, and lies.

What movies do you think they watch in France? That's right, A M E R I C A N. (If you don't believe me, go to Cannes.) What are America actors saying about America, it's policies, and government? That's right, and they're traveling to other countries to say it, because they don't get an audience for saying it here.

What about all the democrat "fund-raising" going on *in* America. Do you think the campaign really want to throw millions of dollars at candidates who may agree with them, but won't say it in public for fear of losing the election, but probably won't win the election anyway. It's much more economical to pay politicians overseas (IT isn't the only industry that's cheaper overseas), to say it for you.

And how do you hear it? That's right, from American media outlets, that all the sudden feel that a minor government appointee in a backwater country has something newsworthy to say.

Re:Americans and supremacy

[Anonymous Coward]

What are they anyway?

USAmericans? It is pretty difficult to describe, you know... Let me think... It is people from the USA (i.e. the United States of America). Let me know if you have any more questions, I will do my best.

Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

My first thoughts about the article were the support dept. fielding calls from disgruntled monkeys unable to access the web site.

African being Sysadmin in Sweden

[SysKoll]

I'm an African, and I'm currently in Sweden where I work as a Sysadmin.

And that, my friend, is the root of the problem. It is braindrain that is happening NOW, not colonialism four decades ago, that is the most damaging trend to Africa today.

African countries and families spend a disproportionate amount of money in education. It's common in some African countries to have families get into bad debts just so that a few of their boys can get a good education. And in return, do these kids work in their country, contributing to increasing economic activity? Heck no. They flee and go work abroad as fast as they can.

And who could blame them? The article is talking about work conditions and salary. But there is more. Look at the infrastructure -- water, road, electricity, and public services -- that us Westerners take for granted in our developed coutnries. It represents about 4 to 6 years of GNP. In other words, each person in a Western country enjoys about half a million dollar worth of infrastructure. This is a unimaginable boon to most Africans.

Once, in Senegal, I was discussing the brain drain problem with a few locals. A young French engineer, a volunteer international cooperant, was complaining that he had just spent 18 months teaching maths to 15-20 year old students and that his brightest students all dreamed of either emigrating or becoming politicians -- hardly production-increasing work as far as Senegal was concerned. I asked our old taxi driver what he thought. "You whites want to help us?", he said. "Fine. Build a concrete wall all around Africa. Don't come in, and don't let them youngsters out."

The sad thing is that to this day, this unreasonable idea is still the most practical among the numerous "solutions for Africa" I have heard of. Most of our ideas for "helping Africa" are recipes for disasters.

Minkwe, this is not a flame. I don't have a "solution for Africa". But I doubt that taking the best brains out of the continent is helping. I'd like your opinion as an emigrant, provided you keep a cool head.

-- SysKoll

Ooga booga monkey man

[Anonymous Coward]

Will HTML for bananas.

I'm saving up for lime green shoes, a purple shirt and an orange hat.

Video conferencing via 14.4k modem

[GQuon]

These people want to do video conferencing via 14.4k modem

That solution allready exists. Post a sneakermail address, and we'll discuss the terms.

My only experience with Africa ....

[zaqattack911]

Is this King Mobutu guy from the Congo (or was it Nigera?)

Anyways, he desperatly wants to insert 10 million into my bank account. In fact there are like tons of Africans who like to insert money into peoples' north american bank accounts!

Africa rulez!!!

--Zuchini

...power problems....

[CitznFish]

.....power problems worse than the norm in deepest California.....

It isn't normal for California to have power problems....grumble...grumble...grumble...

>=[

Wrong moderation...

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI This is a variant from a well known urban legend.

Graft and corruption are Africa's specialties

[Mr. White]

If you want to see crooks running countries into the ground and getting themselves and their friends rich, Africa is a great place to go. Most of those African countries would've been much better staying colonies.

Witold
www.witold.org

Status Report for April 22, 2003

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Big performance improvement in spamming toolset. Now all of the children of the late, great statesman Dr. Fungus Sabimbi will be able to post twice as many emails asking for help in withdrawing his holdings from 50 different Swiss bank accounts...

Who moderated this crap insightfull?

[Anonymous Coward]

Morons