Play PSX Games On Your Xbox

falzbro writes "Now Xbox owners (well, modded Xbox owners) can do what the Playstation people have been able to do for years; play PSX games on your console! PCSX has been ported to the Xbox. It's unfortunate that the homebrew Xbox development scene is stuck in a world of pseudo-legality, due to the lack of a usable Legal XDK. A compatibility list is currently being hammered out, and it's limited to only playing games stored on your Xbox HDD."

Comments

Oooookay...

[InfinityWpi]

So you essentially have to rip the game onto your hard drive to play it? .... How big is an Xbox hard drive, and how much is your average PSX CD, again?

Somehow, I don't think this is as big a drawback as you make it sound.

Re:Oooookay...

[stratjakt]

When your harddrive is full of 9 gig xbox images that you "fair use legally" backed up after you rented them from blockbuster, this gets to be a pain in the ass.

Also, you have to make an ISO on your PC, then ftp to the xbox, copy it over, then play it (maybe).

That's a lot of work to avoid paying 25 bucks for a modded PSX.

Re:Oooookay...

[Hast]

A modded XBox can handle a 120GB IDE drive. So you can fit quite a few games on it.

Re:Oooookay...

[Anonymous Coward]

you can easily upgrade the xbox hard drive to say 120gigs, and the xbox modders are already playing most of their ripped xbox games off their upgraded HDs...

Re:Oooookay...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be more interested in modding a PSX to have a large HD to stick games on, to be honest. Perhaps this is already possible?

Re:Oooookay...

[ripewithdecay]

I'd like to see you fit a hard drive into a PSX.

Re:Oooookay...

[amuro98]

And for the price of a 120GB HD, I can buy a PS1 and a handful of games.

Yeah, yeah, this is more of a "Gee whiz, that's nifty" type of thing but after trying to get BLEEM to run on my PC, I have to wonder at the amount of effort folks are going through here...

Re:Oooookay...

[Anonymous Coward]

what, a 2.5inch laptop drive? you could probably fit 2 or 3 in there!

Re:Oooookay...

[krisp]

Have you ever looked inside an original PSX? You can't fit a credit card in there and put it back together. Even worse with the PS2, but atleast that has an expansion slot.

Re:Oooookay...

[gl4ss]

well, considering that you would have to fiddle around with the game cds with a real psx..

the psx emus for pc's have come a long way, with installers that should make it easy enough for anyone who can read..

aaand since i'm guessing that this takes advantage of 3d hw, with filters(like most psx-emus for pc), it looks better than on the real psx.

not that i would go running to buy a xbox because of this.. or would ever. maybe an used one someday, but the for the hw it has it's getting a worse buy day by day (xbox has just about 1 game that i would like to try that's not available on pc).

bleem! didn't live up to it's words.. but theres other (free) alternatives that are better than it anyways, like this pcsx. i preferred epsxe for gran turismo 2 but havent looked into psx-emus lately..

Re:Oooookay...

[rhuntley12]

Get a 120 gig hard drive on Xbox. You'll wonder how you always sat through load times playing off a CD. Hell, put all the Xbox games you legally own off your hard drive and never switch cd's or bother with them again, oh and did I mention the load time rules? ;)

Re:Oooookay...

[Anonymous Coward]

>Have you ever looked inside an original PSX?

Yeah, when i chipped it. Under the PCB? I don't have a PSOne.

Re:Oooookay...

[Anonymous Coward]

The emulation software is designed to emulate PSX games (not PS2, which are often in DVD format, although not always.) This means that each PSX game would only take up around 650mb (or whatever... you get the idea).

I am stoked, I was going to get a PS2 (even though I wanted an XBOX) just so I could keep playing my PSX games (I want to trade in my old PSX console to go towards my XBOX...)

But with this, I can keep all my PSX games I purchased, trade in the console, get a XBOX... and lock myself inside for the rest of the summer! ;)

Emulation of emulation

[compwizrd]

So does this mean i can play NES games on the emulator for the PSX, under XBox?

Or does that rely on hardware tricks with the PSX hardware?

Re:Emulation of emulation

[dduardo]

you can play nes games under emulation within linux on an xbox with DarcNES or iNES

Re:Emulation of emulation

[phreak03]

there are working nes emulators, and snes, and genesis, and amiga, and atari emulators for the xbox..... they work flawless

Re:Emulation of emulation

[krisp]

Or you can just run xNES nativly on the (modded) xbox with out installing linux.

Thanks for the Warez update

[stratjakt]

PCSX is highly incompatible on a P4 2.53 with a Radeon 9500. I highly doubt any sort of extreme performance on the xbox.

Just get a PS2 - oh and mod it, because we all know this isnt about playing the games, but playing them for free.

From a technical view, emulation is really neat. Too bad the authors cant get credit for what they accomplish, as they're drowned out by some asshat who ports the source using a stolen dev kit for the sole purpose of pirating games.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[wo1verin3]

This project may not interest you, but as an XBox and original PSX console owner this is extremely cool for those times I want to play Twisted Metal 2 and my PSX is being flaky because the plastic piece containing the laser assembly has warped slightly giving me problems reading discs.

You are talking about a tool. All tools can be used for good or for bad. A hammer can be used to damage a car, or to fix a house.

I'll be choosing to fix my house with this tool.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, get a modded PS2 -- if you want to fix the laser in it every 3 days, that is. That thing can't read CD-R media at all, at least the unit my buddy has. I have to fix it for him every couple of weeks 'cuz the DVD drive in it is a piece of shit. And it doesn't read any burned CD with the lightest scratch or smudge on it.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[stratjakt]

I'm talking about a piece of software that was developed using stolen code from microsoft, and is a port of open source code (GPLed, IIRC).

Sure makes the OSS community look grand, doesn't it?

So fine, you don't respect MS's IP in the XDK, but you respect the IP of every PSX devloper. I'll buy that.

But I'd bet the next step is to use the same reasoning as the kazaa users. "Why should I pay 20 bucks for a game with only 1 good level?"

I already said that technically I think emulation is really interesting.

I used to follow the develoments closely a couple of years ago. I watched NES and GameGear, then SNES and Genesis, then N64 and PSX emerge from the works of skilled coders.

By then it had all changed 100%. It was about 0-day r0mz and free games, not about mastering a piece of hardware.

Watch the emu community now, this "preservation of hardware" stuff, which used to be the driving mission, is now mostly lip service. Lots of work emulating popular stuff like GBA or PSX, little to nothing on Jaguar or Saturn or Dreamcast (the platforms in need of "preservation").

So this is just another step. Free 0-day r0mz for your xbox. Very little skill created this. It's a port of some open source using stolen libraries. It's written for a community that cares nothing at all for IP, and feels entitled to free games.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[Anonymous Coward]

Trade his in for a version 4 or higher, or one of the next "version 8" units if you can. The earlier units had shit lasers, the later ones are much better - I've had no problems with my v5 after a year of heavy use.

The v8s apparently are designed to read DVD-R, so I'd imagine their lasers are just perfect for you and your friends warezed copy of Vice City.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[stratjakt]

That thing can't read CD-R media at all,

Neither can the xbox. CD-RWs usually work, its hit and miss. You need to replace the xDVD drive to get anything working well.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[antis0c]

*Applause* Seriously. I'm glad I'm not the only person that feels this way. The same applies for everything else, you can't use two wrongs to make a right.

The whole excuse "Why should I pay ... when it only has ..." is nothing more than an excuse to reason with yourself why your doing something illegal or wrong. If you don't want to pay money for the software, don't use it.

Seriously, applause again..

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[wo1verin3]

How long have you been working for the RIAA?

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[ripewithdecay]

I'm talking about a piece of software that was developed using stolen code from microsoft, and is a port of open source code (GPLed, IIRC).

Stolen?

Tell us that when Longhorn is released, with its curious familiarity to OSX.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[ripewithdecay]

It's slang, asshole.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[Anonymous Coward]

My XBOX reads my burned musik cd's just fine.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[drunk_as_in_beer]

little to nothing on Jaguar or Saturn or Dreamcast (the platforms in need of "preservation").

True.. very true. I'd love to see a Saturn emulator and get ROM^H^H^Horiginal copies of many of the Japanese games released for the system, supposedly they were really good (many titles not released in the U.S.).

Actually I own a Saturn and X-Men vs Street Fighter (an import). Good stuff.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[Shilaeli]

Watch the emu community now, this "preservation of hardware" stuff, which used to be the driving mission, is now mostly lip service. Lots of work emulating popular stuff like GBA or PSX, little to nothing on Jaguar or Saturn or Dreamcast (the platforms in need of "preservation").

That's not entirely fair. The reason no one writes good emulators for Jaguar or Saturn is because those consoles failed miserably and not enough people care about them. Sure there's a bunch of good Japanese Saturn games, but who wants to play a game in a language you can't even understand? Not me. Dreamcasts are still very cheap and easy to find, and there's not going to be any improvement with the graphics for like 10-15 years, if ever. PSX emulation on Xbox has the potential for you to play PSX games on your TV with much better graphics, like with Bleem! for Dreamcast. I dumped my own Castlevania COTM cart just to play the game backlit with Visual Boy Advance. GBA emulation on Xbox will let you play games on your TV with a nice backlight, and bigger display. You still can't do this, unless you import the expensive Gameboy Player for Gamecube, or use a crappy TV out setup from a video card.

Even though it would be nice to respect the open source community, it's not really worth it to reinvent the wheel to port these things to the Xbox legally. This stuff does have the potential to be very useful, and not all of the new kids in the emulation scene are in it for piracy. Most of them probably buy many more games than your average video gamer.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[gl4ss]

is pcsx really _that_ slow? or you just unable to configure it properly? you do realise theres recommendation specs of p3-500mhz/256mb/3dcard?

havent tried pcsx personally myself, but you can get perfect emulation of psx on a k7-700mhz/128/gf2 combo i used to have, with certain emulator(s).

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[Guppy06]

"The reason no one writes good emulators for Jaguar or Saturn is because those consoles failed miserably and not enough people care about them."

Hence the "the platforms in need of "preservation" comment by the original poster.

"Sure there's a bunch of good Japanese Saturn games, but who wants to play a game in a language you can't even understand? Not me."

Then go download the translation patch. It's how I played Seiken Densetsu 3.

"Dreamcasts are still very cheap and easy to find, and there's not going to be any improvement with the graphics for like 10-15 years, if ever."

640K should be enough for anybody!

"GBA emulation on Xbox will let you play games on your TV with a nice backlight, and bigger display. You still can't do this, unless you import the expensive Gameboy Player for Gamecube,."

First off, you can't wait until next month to get a domestic Game Boy Player? I mean, hell, the damned thing will be released in North America before an import model would reach you from Japan!

Secondly, it's $50. If $50 is too much for you, you're in the wrong damned hobby (and probably the wrong website). This isn't exactly the Sega 32-X we're talking about here. Hell, I payed around 50% more than that for my copy of Final Fantasy "III," and that was before the US dollar started slipping. Worst-case scenario, you also buy a $150 GameCube to connect it to, which brings your total to about the same price as an Xbox. And you won't have emulation bugs, either.

If your excuse for emulating the Game Boy Advance on an Xbox is "to get a bigger picture" or "to get a back-lit picture," you're either too damned stupid to get a GameCube instead, or your only true reason is to be able to play illegal ROMs. You should be honest with yourself.

"Even though it would be nice to respect the open source community, it's not really worth it to reinvent the wheel to port these things to the Xbox legally."

And what, praytell, it the ultimate goal the "effort" you speak of is striving for? If the goal is anything but "play illegal games," then I'd have to say that the ends do not justify the means.

"This stuff does have the potential to be very useful, and not all of the new kids in the emulation scene are in it for piracy."

If they're not in it for piracy, why did they pirate the Xbox SDK?

"Most of them probably buy many more games than your average video gamer."

I'd agree with you a few years ago (I wouldn't have dug up an old Master System if I hadn't been introduced to Phantasy Star through emulation), but today I'll have to disagree.

Consider this: After the release of the Game Boy Player, there will be no legitimate reason to use a Game Boy Advance emulator to play commercial games*. Even those interested in making their own games can just go buy a Flash Advance. And yet there's no sign of the GBA ROM scene disappearing come June.

*(Actually, I can think of one reason, but if the GB Player doesn't do anything with Super Game Boy code, as both the GBA and GBC have failed to, I'll still always have my actual Super Game Boy)

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[Guppy06]

"but as an XBox and original PSX console owner this is extremely cool for those times I want to play Twisted Metal 2 and my PSX is being flaky because the plastic piece containing the laser assembly has warped slightly giving me problems reading discs."

Solution: Buy a new PlayStation (probably about the same price as an Xbox mod chip) and learn to take better care of your consoles.

Next!

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[Shilaeli]

Well, it'd be nice if there were lots emus for preserving the rare consoles, but unfortunately the best ones are only for the most popular consoles. The NES is like my least favorite console, yet there are about 30 near perfect emus for it. If frustrates me too. There are just not enough fans of the rare hardware for people to work on the program, and not enough fans of the system in general to appreciate it.

I've had my GB Player for a month now. I couldn't wait. =P But if Nintendo didn't make it, or I didn't already have a use for a Gamecube, I'd try the Xbox method.

I actually agree with what you said about GBA roms. The carts are so cheap and there's no region protection, so I don't understand why people need to pirate the roms. Especially after the Afterburner light, GBA SP, and now the GB Player.

I could see a real use for this PSX emu for Xbox. I had a blast playing Symphony of the Night again on Epsxe with improved graphics and fast load times. I'd love to do that again on with my bigger display TV and Xbox.

The idea of a Dreamcast emulator just bores me right now. It would be nice to see how it comes a long, but how practical would it be right now? The PSX games look much better when emulated on PC and Dreamcast, but most computers right now would struggle to play Dreamcast games even at a decent speed, let alone play them better in any way than the Dreamcast can already do by itself.

It might not be legal to use the Xbox dev kit without approval, but it's just too hard for people to sit around and wait for someone to develop there own bios and dev kit. Who knows how long it would take, and how far they will get with it. The way it's going, nobody will ever do it since it's so convenient just to use the MS utilities. I'm sure the people who port the open source emus to Xbox feel a little bad about it too, but it's just too tempting when the Xbox is a cheap bundle of good, TV-ready, PC-based gaming hardware, and the only easy way to access it is with illegal proprietary code.

I can relate to much of what he was saying, but it's not really fair to generalize the newest generation of the emulation scene as pirates. Many of them have just much respect for the game developers and buy the majority of their games, they just don't care so about stupid trivial stuff like whether their Xbox apps were created with authorized code or not.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[gpinzone]

Make sure you get a Samsung DVD drive in the XBox. It will read anything.

Re:Thanks for the Warez update

[rtechie]

Lots of work emulating popular stuff like GBA or PSX, little to nothing on Jaguar or Saturn or Dreamcast (the platforms in need of "preservation").

I can't speak for the Jaguar or the Dreamcast (though I think in the case of the DC, speed is a major issue), but there are combination of issues that have prevented much Saturn development, mainly due to the complex nature of the Saturn architecture and the fact that almost all the development is going on in Japan. In fact, there is probably a fairly active community in Japan. Don't make the mistake of thinking the USA is the whole world.

XBox Modchips

[mcbridematt]

It looks like M$ will never let us mod our XBoxes without being banned from XBL. What a shame.

Well. It looks like we will still need to depend on Buffer overflows then. I wish we just used the buffer overflows to install and boot a Linux system, not use it like Knoppix.

Then again, I can't wait for *BSD on Xbox!

Re:XBox Modchips

[Bendy Chief]

Well, it's not as though you'd get a different response from Nintendo, Sony, or any other console maker, for that matter.

One way or another, for Microsoft, your installing a modchip is A Bad Thing. Either you do it to turn your box into a PC, therefore very likely forgoing games (which they make all their profit from), to actually pirate games, or to use it for some other obscure purpose which I can't think of at the time being. :)

You'd protect your interests if you were in MS' shoes. If you're looking for someone to hiss at for unsavoury practices in the industry, take a look at some of Nintendo's early-nineties antics.

Re:XBox Modchips

[Jeff Reed]

I believe Microsoft was also concerned that gamers with chipped systems would start using hacked versions of online games to cheat (see Diablo 2, Everquest, or hell, just about any PC online game ever). That was (at least once) the official line on why they didn't allow chipped systems to be used on X-Box Live. Can't say I blame them, really; I wouldn't want to have a gaming session ruined because c00ldude7189 decided he wanted to be invincible and have a +99 Sword of Hurting or that sort of thing.

Re:XBox Modchips

[Bendy Chief]

Ahh yes, the obscure third purpose I couldn't put my finger on. Thanks.

Obscure perhaps isn't the best term though; cheat prevention is a very, very important thing. I don't even play Counterstrike anymore thanks to hacks, and I fear that the official Valve release of DoD could be the beginning of its end too. Ah well.

Re:XBox Modchips

[Anonymous Coward]

It is fairly trivial to install a switch on the D0 grounding which will "disable" the modchip and run the original bios. You might have heard of this under the name YBOX mod. The box does not detect the chip when it is disabled. Essentially if you want to play xbox live games you need the original game and really you should pay for something that you are going to play on Live, because multiplayer functionality (as proved by rtcw, quake, counterstrike etc) IS worth the money.

Re:XBox Modchips

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually you can get on XBL with a modded chip. You just need a chip that has an externel switch to turn it off when you get on XBL. I have one and it works.

unfortunate

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's unfortunate that the homebrew Xbox development scene is stuck in a world of pseudo-legality, due to the lack of a usable Legal XDK. "

Really? How do you come to that conclusion. I bought an Xbox, I have some PSX games, i`ll play them on my Xbox if I like.

Re:unfortunate

[stratjakt]

The emulator was developed using MS's XDK, and is itself nothing more than a bunch of stolen libraries and system calls.

You'd probably break down and cry if someone violated the GPL.

Re:unfortunate

[M3wThr33]

Right, like any sane person would go through the trouble of ripping a PSX game and playing it on a shaky emulator, when they already have the console and games next to them.

Then again, it's also addressing the same crowd who put a computer in a toilet for the hell of it...

Re:unfortunate

[Anonymous Coward]

NOt if it were broken for the greater good, no.

Re:unfortunate

[jvalenzu]

Then again, it's also addressing the same crowd who put a computer in a toilet for the hell of it...

That's a pretty harsh way to describe installing GNU/Lunix.

Re:unfortunate

[M3wThr33]

Yeah, I guess it's a pretty shitty comparison?

Re:unfortunate

[roka]

Hell yeah. I would totally cry when someone ported GPL licensed software to the xbox.
That's like you go out buy _our_ foobar and do with it whatever you want. Unbelievable!

site is down already..

[tomanator]

PCSXBox - PSX Emulator for XBox v1
>> Xport did it! , the first PlayStation emulator working on Xbox.

From Xport on forums.xbox-scene.com:
[QUOTE]
What's New :
- Emulates Playstation
- Memory Card manager (select from 10 memory cards)
- Save states (LTRIGGER+BLACK and LTRIGGER+WHITE)
- Cheat code searching
- Gameshark code-compatible
- Gameshark cheat code database with codes for over 1700 games
- Remappable PSX buttons
- Throttle/speed-up
- Supports BIN files or GZIP'd BIN files. (GZIP is not the same as ZIP)
- Background - Thanks to CandyISO for the background image
- True Type Font - Thanks to CandyISO for this PSX font
- MP3 support
- XPort's Configurable PlayThing

This version does not support real CDs. There are a different set of technical hurdles involved with PSX cds than with SegaCD and PCE CD/SCD. I was finally able to get the XBox to read XA sectors, but it reads them much too slowly for anyone to want to play games using it. (Reads about 2.5KB per second)
For now, create BIN/CUE's of your PSX games and either copy them to your HD or burn them to DVDR/CDRW. Your BIN and CUE files should have the same names.

When you select the BIN file to load, you will be presented with an options menu. You can start the game using one of two different BIOS methods. Using an actual BIOS file for the emulation is the most compatible, however it's a little slower than HLE. Try both and see which one works best for the game you're playing.
[/QUOTE]

Official Site PCSXBox: http://xport.xb-power.com
Official Site PCSX: http://www.pcsx.net
Download: n/a (built with XDK)
News-Source: forums.xbox-scene.com
Posted by:: XanTium
May 11 18:14 (GMT+1)

Re:site is down already..

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi, why did you support Microsoft for free, did Mirosoft something for you and free :-(. CU H9000

Re:site is down already..

[Anonymous Coward]

[ Script Execution time: 0.0572 ] [ 10 queries used ] [ GZIP Disabled ] [ Server Load: 0.96 ]

Dude, I bet they really didn't mean to disable GZIP...

Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[JayBlalock]

Just talking strategy, what's one of the biggest reasons the PS2 is kicking them around in the marketplace? The huge back-library of PS1 titles that can be had for $10. Suddenly, with NO work on Microsoft's part whatsoever, all those PS1 games are playable on X-Box - removing one more reason for people to shell out for a PS2. Of course, they'll probably just sue everyone anyway.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[patoco12]

Just talking strategy, what's one of the biggest reasons the PS2 is kicking them around in the marketplace? The huge back-library of PS1 titles that can be had for $10. Suddenly, with NO work on Microsoft's part whatsoever, all those PS1 games are playable on X-Box - removing one more reason for people to shell out for a PS2. Of course, they'll probably just sue everyone anyway.

The consequences for Microsoft of people modding their Xboxs outweigh the benefit of people buying an XBox because they can play PS1 titles on it.

It would be nice to have such a big library of games to choose from, but the PS1 doesn't have such a bad price. Microsoft may figure that people who want to play those games will buy a PS1 if they also want to have an XBox.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[JayBlalock]

The consequences for Microsoft of people modding their Xboxs outweigh the benefit of people buying an XBox because they can play PS1 titles on it. Well, that would be their fault for selling below cost and thinking they could sue anyone who attempts to mod the hardware. It's gonna happen, whether they want it to or not, and absolutely regardless of their legal actions. So should they sue everyone they can, to no real effect besides even more bad PR, or should they embrace movements that will potentially get more people to buy their product? The only people that MS really doesn't want buying X-Boxen are folks who just want to convert it into a spare PC. If you're playing games on it at all, you make MS happy since you're still a potential customer.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[Guppy06]

On the flip side, PlayStation 2 game writers have to compete with $10 PSX games. This is why PSX "emulation" on a PS2 doesn't render at higher resolutions, etc.

Speaking of which, does anybody know of a PSX emulator that runs well on Linux for PS2?

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[patoco12]

Well, that would be their fault for selling below cost

So they should charge more and sell less units?


they could sue anyone who attempts to mod the hardware

It's is actually in Microsoft's best interest to put the pressure on. Regardless of what slashdotters do, the vast majority of people will mod their xboxs to play pirated games.


The only people that MS really doesn't want buying X-Boxen are folks who just want to convert it into a spare PC.

Of course, they want these people to buy a PC with Windows pre-installed!!


If we measure the intelligence of a business decision in dollars (and not necessarily PR), then there is really nothing wrong with Microsoft's decision to try and limit XBox modding.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[lvdrproject]

I really don't think Microsoft is worrying too much that people aren't buying their console based on the fact that it doesn't support a 7-year-old console's games.

Aside from that, the development, and probably the use, of this emulator is/was illegal. Not to mention that you have to get your Xbox modded, which (a) allows you to pirate Xbox games (which will certainly destroy any added revenue owing to the very small crowd that buys an Xbox based on the fact that it can now play, poorly, a few PSX games), (b) locks you out of Xbox Live (which, coincidentally, is another source of income for Microsoft), and (c) is also illegal (or, at least, the law seems to consider it so).

So, no, i don't think this helps Microsoft at all.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[blincoln]

This is why PSX "emulation" on a PS2 doesn't render at higher resolutions, etc.

Actually, it does. You can enable texture smoothing and faster disc reads for PSX games from one of the system menus.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[Guppy06]

"Actually, it does. You can enable texture smoothing and faster disc reads for PSX games from one of the system menus."

I've tried both. Both offer little in the way of visual benefits and both tend to make PSX games more buggy on the PS2 than they would be otherwise (which, in my experience, is still fairly buggy).

Texture smoothing is an insignifigant benefit next to polygon rendering at higher resolutions. Generally speaking, higher resolution is all that really separates Star Fox from Star Fox 64.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[JayBlalock]

If we measure the intelligence of a business decision in dollars (and not necessarily PR), then there is really nothing wrong with Microsoft's decision to try and limit XBox modding. As evidenced by the soaring sales and universal love granted to the RIAA following a similar campaign?

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[NeMon'ess]

A PS2 still will not render PS games at 640x480 because the 33MHz chip from the PS is doing the rendering. Rendering at 640x480 up from 320x240 is four times as many pixels on the screen. That would make racing games actually playable for me. I can't race a PS game when I'm staring a a 3x3 block in the center trying to determine if that is a left or right turn. 6x6 would help. Anyone know if the xbox renders at 640x480? Will it render N64 games at 640x480? California Speed is one of my favorite arcade racing games. I own it for the N64, but to play it at 640x480 would be so much better.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[JayBlalock]

Aside from that, the development, and probably the use, of this emulator is/was illegal. Nope. If they legitimately reverse-engineered the PS1 hardware, then the emulator itself is completely legal. See the Supreme court Atari\Coleco ruling from '83 or so.

Obviously, playing pirated games is illegal, but we don't need two laws covering the same area. And the provision in the DMCA claiming you can't mod "protected" hardware is clearly ludicrous and almost certainly won't stand up to a Supreme Court challenge. (heaven help us if it did...) My point is not one of law. It's of strategy. Attempting to sue the pants off their users is almost certainly going to do more harm than good. People will still mod their X-box, and still play pirate games if they're so inclined. Hard-to-enforce laws prohibiting this aren't going to put much of a dent in it. Conversely, however, a long enough track record of Microsoft suing its own customers will likely drive undecided buyers to the open arms of Sony or Nintendo. (just as, it would appear, people and bands are slowly getting fed up with the RIAA labels and moving to independents. Check out the history of the new "Sanctuary" record label sometime - they've become quite profitable solely because of the Big Names acting like jerks)

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[lvdrproject]

Nope. If they legitimately reverse-engineered the PS1 hardware, then the emulator itself is completely legal.

I was referring to the fact that they used the illegally-obtained Xbox SDK to port it. That makes it illegal, doesn't it? :/

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[JayBlalock]

I was referring to the fact that they used the illegally-obtained Xbox SDK to port it. That makes it illegal, doesn't it? :/ Don't know if they did, either way...

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[badasscat]

I've tried both. Both offer little in the way of visual benefits and both tend to make PSX games more buggy on the PS2 than they would be otherwise (which, in my experience, is still fairly buggy).

Texture smoothing is an insignifigant benefit next to polygon rendering at higher resolutions. Generally speaking, higher resolution is all that really separates Star Fox from Star Fox 64.

Then I guess we can all turn off bilinear (or trilinear, or anisotropic) filtering on our PC graphics cards, despite the fact that we all paid a pretty penny specifically for that feature, because that's exactly what the "texture smoothing" feature of the PS2 does. It improves the visual quality in exactly the same way as filtering does on PC graphics cards. If you don't notice it, then I guess you probably just use software rendering on your PC whenever you play games too, huh? Or at least turn off the filtering for the performance increase? Somehow I doubt it.

And yes, SF64 uses bilinear filtering, SF doesn't (in fact, if I remember right, it doesn't use textures at all - just flat-shaded polygons).

Oh, and all games I've tried texture smoothing with work perfectly. It's the "fast load" feature that some games have a problem with. Very few games are known to have problems with texture smoothing.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[Guppy06]

Rant on about PC cards all you want. I've seen several PSX games on the PS2 both with and without the texture smoothing enabled. The differences between the two are small enough that, unless you were looking for the differences, most non-audiophile people wouldn't notice.

"And yes, SF64 uses bilinear filtering, SF doesn't (in fact, if I remember right, it doesn't use textures at all - just flat-shaded polygons)."

Are you trying to say that SF would look just as good as SF64 if it kept the old rendering resolution but inlcluded textures?

"Oh, and all games I've tried texture smoothing with work perfectly."

There have been several times in FF VIII where the textures got all screwy, to the point where text was unreadable. And I didn't have either texture smoothing or fast loading enabled. I had to go through a boss fight a second time just so I could see the dialog I missed.

And then there are the problems with FF V, but at least that's documented.

Re:Microsoft shouldn't block this...

[Anonymous Coward]

yea, that makes sense, MS has decided that they WANT people to play psx games on their modded boxes because they lose money on the consoles AND dont make money on the games? BS buddy, maybe u should stay off the crack...

Mr.Big

Higher resolution like Bleem!cast?

[klui]

Site is slashdotted, but I'm curious if this emulator will play PSX games at a higher resolution like Bleem! for Dreamcast.

Re:Higher resolution like Bleem!cast?

[Anonymous Coward]

have you tried it out, it emulates psx at 100% full speed without any or much noticable glitches, works better then bleem..

Re:Higher resolution like Bleem!cast?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm curious if this emulator will play PSX games at a higher resolution like Bleem! for Dreamcast
Nope, nothing like BleemCast yet. Jaggies all the way.

Re:Higher resolution like Bleem!cast?

[klui]

have you tried it out, it emulates psx at 100% full speed without any or much noticable glitches, works better then bleem..

I don't know. I have the Gran Turismo 2 Bleempack for Dreamcast and it works quite well. Fry's Electronics had a display demo a while back where they had a PS2 and a Dreamcast running GT2 and the graphics improvement on the DC was quite obvious. There were no noticable slowdown on the DC, and when I played it on my console, but it was nice having a PS2 to do a side-by-side comparison at the store to confirm.

Not ready for prime time game playing

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems that the PCSX2 runs homebrew demos well, but can still only run a small minority of commercial games...

From a quick glance at NGEmu... I believe that's how it is with most of the Playstation Emulators out there (but I'd love to be proven wrong.)

Re:Not ready for prime time game playing

[jtriska]

Well, I can prove you wrong. ;)

The PSX emulation scene is quite mature and has been for some time. Emulators such as EPSXE for the PC and Linux are highly compatible with PSX games, nearing 98% compatible with all games.

PCSX2 is a Playstation2 emulator however, not a Playstation emulator, which is why it only runs a few demos. This is a port of its predecessor, PCSX, which is about on par with EPSXE.

Uh WHY?

[kewsh]

why when you can play NES games on the NES emulator for xbox? theres an emulator for everything on xbox now except for N64 (which there is currently a contest running for however writes it first) and PS2.

Re:Uh WHY?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought there was an N64 emulator, just has no sound at the moment, though that might have been solved in the last week or so. I seem to have one on my XBox, and havent upgraded to WithSound version.

Re:Uh WHY?

[frankthechicken]

Is that the daedalus version, I haven't tried it out yet. Is it any good?

In amount of time it takes to do all this work...

[Anonymous Coward]

...to burn, transfer, etc, one could earn the money even working a minimum wage job and buy a PSOne. Forget about "evil corporations", etc, on a pure time basis it's really cheaper to buy one.

Wonder of Wonders

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally I can make a 733 Mhz CISC CPU operate as well as a 33 Mhz RISC CPU! Oh wonder of wonders!

Re:Wonder of Wonders

[Anonymous Coward]

Fair comment. Why do we bother, but hey - aint it fun!

Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[goombah99]

Microsoft (steve balmer) has said that we should not fret so much about Paladium (redubbed Next Generaion etc...) since it will be optional. The end user can choose not to use it. of course certain Apps wont run in non-trusted mode but that'll be my choice. And of course, the ability to run certain apps in a trusted mode will indeed be desirable (e.g. medical records, banking, coroporate VPN). sounds good right?

So if MS really feels this way, why are they so obstinate about the Xbox modding? Xbox's protection is highly analogous to the Paladium in the way it uses a secure platform. So it seems like I ought to be able to diable this at boot time. Okay in return I should expect that Xbox games and Xbox network should be inaccessible in a non-secure platform mode, but if we take steve balmer at his word then this should be an acceptable choice left to the user to make.

On the other hand one could draw a more troubling inference. MS is saying, we are going to lock out non-approved game vendors by using our secure computing platform as a club. This is not unreasonable if it just stopped at Xbox (since they dont have a monopoly on game boxes). But this may also be a the camel's nose in the tent for genertal computing: we're going to do the same with paladium to secure our software monopoly. We will just call it a choice-- a hobson's choice--to evade the monopoly problem.

Of course I'm just talking out my ass here. But I see a strong parallel and dont like it.

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[alienw]

WTF are you talking about? Every video game starting with the 8-bit Nintendo used the same kind of copy protection to keep out unlicensed titles. Why are you dissing Microsoft for following the accepted industry practice? It's not that I like Microsoft, but people really look pretty dumb when they start inventing conspiracy theories left and right.

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[Osty]

So if MS really feels this way, why are they so obstinate about the Xbox modding? Xbox's protection is highly analogous to the Paladium in the way it uses a secure platform. So it seems like I ought to be able to diable this at boot time. Okay in return I should expect that Xbox games and Xbox network should be inaccessible in a non-secure platform mode, but if we take steve balmer at his word then this should be an acceptable choice left to the user to make.

Huh? So for Paladium, you'll accept that some applications won't work in non-trusted mode and that trusted mode would be desirable for other applications, but you can't see the obvious parallel to XBox and XBox Live? If you want to mod your XBox, go ahead. That's not going to stop your non-online games from playing, but you can forget about XBox Live. You have the same choice -- mod your XBox/turn off DRM and lose XBox Live/some apps that require the trusted mode, or don't mod your XBox/turn DRM on and be able to run XBox Live/the previously mentioned apps.

However, you can't expect Microsoft to build in this kind of support directly. Believe what you will, but a good 75% (and almost certainly much more) of people who modify their game consoles do so because they want to pirate games (and even if they did have a more altruistic reason in the beginning, they end up pirating games anyway). Maybe XBox Live should be more lenient, and only disallow connections when a modchip is detected rather than blacklisting you for all time, but oh well. Just be more careful making sure you switch off your chip before logging in (alternatively, buy two XBoxes).

On the other hand one could draw a more troubling inference. MS is saying, we are going to lock out non-approved game vendors by using our secure computing platform as a club. This is not unreasonable if it just stopped at Xbox (since they dont have a monopoly on game boxes). But this may also be a the camel's nose in the tent for genertal computing: we're going to do the same with paladium to secure our software monopoly. We will just call it a choice-- a hobson's choice--to evade the monopoly problem.

That's nothing new. Console makers have been doing this for years. Microsoft is just following suit when they require developers to be licensed to publish XBox games. The licensing goes a lot farther than just saying, "Yes, you can publish a game for our platform." Microsoft does some minimum amount of testing (especially for Live games), which theoretically should help keep quality high. It doesn't always work out that way, but nobody's perfect. I think you're stretching things here too much, and you just come off sounding paranoid.

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[miu]

Microsoft does some minimum amount of testing (especially for Live games), which theoretically should help keep quality high.

Hmm, can your theory explain "Nightcaster II"?

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[Osty]

Hmm, can your theory explain "Nightcaster II"?

Nope, and it can't explain Kabuki Warriors either (well, perhaps the need for third-party launch titles can explain that one). But then, lots of things only work in theory. In practice, lots of things can happen. As well, I'm not sure Microsoft tests to make sure things are fun, just to make sure the game is reasonably playable and bug free. Even so, some games still slip through the cracks (like Ghost Recon, though I'd again lump that into the "need launch games, screw the quality" bucket, since it was an XBox Live launch title).

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[moncyb]

Except M$ is trying to apply that same "copy protection" (meaning keeping out competitiors and open source developers) crap on generic computers! I don't want to be forced to use only M$ software on my computer.

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[alienw]

The PS1/PS2 is just as commodity hardware as the xbox. They all use fairly standard processors. They all use fairly standard hardware. You can develop your own software for the PS1 or PS2. Hell, the PS2 even has a proprietary Linux distro. Yet, everyone always bitches about xbox being protected. My question: how exactly is sony better?

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[corsetboy]

i have no idea about the PSX, but the PS2 is almost entirely proprietry hardware - the EE core processor, vector units, and graphics synthesiser were all custom designed for the PS2. but your point still stands, and all console makers are only acting in their own best interests to attempt to keep control of the market.

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[alienw]

The EE processor is not proprietary. It's a MIPS core, just like the PS1. MIPS is the company that makes processors for SGI. Sony has a custom version of it, but it's not anything radically new. Besides, Microsoft doesn't use a standard Intel chip in the xbox, either. It's in a weird package and is somewhat of a cross between a Pentium III and a celeron. Both Microsoft and Sony use custom proprietary graphics chips, though. Microsoft's is based on nVidia's chips, Sony designed their own. I don't see any real difference between how proprietary the two are.

Re:Xbox DRM versus Paladium (NG...)

[moncyb]

I don't think Sony is better. It's just Microsoft is positioning themselves to remove generic non-MS computers from the markets where I live. First they got rid of any for-profit Operating System developers (unless you count Linux Distros), now they may get rid of computers which will run the non-profit ones too.

Maybe Sony is doing something similar in Japan, but I don't live in Japan. So I don't know, and it won't affect me. Not that it would be right for Sony to take over Japan or anything, I just have other priorities...

Sony Missing the boat with CVGS

[adzoox]

I really think Sony missed a golden opportunity with Connectix Virtual Game Station. (I think Apple missed the boat too.) As Apple seems to be trying to get "Mac Onlyness" to the computer user, I think this would have been a perfect "switch reason". (A built in Playstation emulator) This program opened up a vast game title to the Mac and did so legally. The fact that it was Mac Only was the driving force behind my purchasing another Apple laptop instead of a desktop as my main machine.

Virtual Gamestation was flawless with the emulation it provided. It was in most ways superior to the Playstation before the PS2 came out. Before most games started being Playstation II only, I already had a transportable DVD Mp3 playing, Playstation game playing unit in my PowerBook G3 500, upgraded to 900Mhz now with 768megs of RAM and a 32x CDRW/DVD combo drive.

I was really hoping at the time Connectix faced legal concerns with Sony, that Apple would step in and co liscense it and just add the emulation to the Mac OS. After reading the article about Virtual PC , many wished Apple would have done the same thing with it or a program called Boch's.

I was hoping that Sony would make PCI cards or even PCMCIA cards that would would compliment software emulation.

All said, I'm very content playing Intelligent Qube and Puzzle Fighter on my PowerBook on Airplane trips with the Gravis Gamepad that was just a "PSX controller with a USB connection."

Re:Sony Missing the boat with CVGS

[stratjakt]

VGS wasn't flawless by any means. It was good, and more compatible than Bleem! for sure, but many many games had serious issues, or just flat-out didn't work.

Neither prevented you from playing copies, both threw in little routines to check for originals, both were easily patched out within a day of release, which is Sony's main beef.

Re:Sony Missing the boat with CVGS

[Anonymous Coward]

After production of VGS was stopped, games that followed were "console intensive didn't work" - but true of most consloes = the best most console advantaged games don't hit until right at the end of the life cycle.

Most everything during and before CVGS worked perfectly. You also have to take into account NOT ALL games worked on the Playstation flawlessly either. There were lots of bugs in Final Fantasy VII and in Grand Tourismo that would either freeze the console or make it skip lots of frames. The VRAM frame buffer, only 2MBs, was the biggest problem of the PSX and it carried over into the emulation.

The Connectix emulator was better on the Mac because it was a RISC emulating a RISC.

Re:Sony Missing the boat with CVGS

[Anonymous Coward]

you can buy adapters that allow you to plug in a real playstation controler (better d pad, dual shock) to USB, but i dunno if its compatable with macs.

Re:Sony Missing the boat with CVGS

[orbital3]

Sony missed a golden opportunity? How about Microsoft? Who owns Connectix now? That's right, Microsoft. Connectix already went through the whole court battle regarding the legality of their Playstation emulator, and they won. All MS has to do at this point is:

1) Port Vitrual Game Station to the XBox
2) Profit!

Seriously.

Who cares?

[RatBastard]

Not to be a dick or anythingm but who cares? You can get a PSOne for $50.00 (US) almost anywhere. That's less than getting your XBox modded. And you won't have to worry about whether or not the emulator works with any particular game.

Re:Who cares?

[Evil Adrian]

Mod parent up. Makes sense, and you don't have to worry about breaking your Xbox.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

And if 50 bucks is too rich for your blood, you can find a used PSX for like 24.99 at babbages, IIRC.

I really wish slashdot wouldnt post something that's basically 'warez' news.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

i want to pirate games. i want to switch consoles without getting off the couch.

Re:Who cares?

[SiliconJesus101]

Well, most things posted here are not really "practical" but they are rich on the pure geek factor alone. Hell, Linux on a cash register, web servers on C-64's, and Dreamcast VMU's, etc. None of these are at all practical....but damn it's nifty...isn't it.

Doesn't being geeky also involve having some fun and playing with your toys in a non-practical way?

Re:Who cares?

[badboy_tw2002]

Doesn't being geeky also involve having some fun and playing with your toys in a non-practical way?

I hope so. There has to be some benefit in exchange for women.

Re:Who cares?

[acidrain69]

Because that's $50 extra I don't need to spend on a piece of hardware if I can make something I already own do it. Also, how big is the HD in the XBox? 40 gigs? 20 gigs? You can fit a nice handful of playstation games on that. Let's see, CD swapping hell +$50, or xbox jukebox for the cost of a modchip. Checking modchip prices, the difference is very small. Like $10 after shipping. Now also take into consideration that if you have 2 systems, you have to plug them both in somewhere. Now you need an AV switchbox or you have to use valuable inputs on your TV. Add another $30 for a switchbox and wires.

Re:Who cares?

[ozric99]

I care. It's just one more reason why xbox is one of the greatest things a shoddy company like Microsoft has ever produced. It means that the modded xbox I have sitting in my living room now plays xbox, psx, amiga, snes, megadrive and arcade games. It's hooked up to the LAN so I can listen to my mp3 collection or listen to shoutcast streams. I can stream videos from the LAN, or simply play them from the huge hard drive I now have installed. I can stick a CF memory card into my computer in the other room and we can all view the pictures taken earlier that day on a big screen TV. Or maybe just boot into linux.

All accessible from the couch via the xbox's dvd remote control.

Didn't mean to go off on a fanboy wank-rant there, but as much as I dislike Microsoft as a company, they've produced one hell of a product.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

CD swapping hell? No wonder you're fat and out of shape.

Re:Who cares?

[ripewithdecay]

Also, how big is the HD in the XBox? 40 gigs? 20 gigs?

Lower. 8GB.

Re:Who cares?

[August_zero]

umm i gotta agree with the "who cares" comment.

You can play all those games on a PC with a good mega-drive, SNes, etc, emulator.

I mean if you are intrigued by the challenge of modding the system yourself then by all means, but most of you are just free-loaders and most of the rest of us really don't care about your pain.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

thank you ozric99, you took the words out of my mouth

Mr.Big

Re:Who cares?

[Guppy06]

Because they may actually look better on an Xbox and because I have enough things plugged into the back of my television already.

Re:Who cares?

[acidrain69]

But my PC monitor isn't 36". Nor does it also play XBox titles.

As for your "not caring about our pain", then why bother to uphold an opposing opinion?

I don't even own an XBox, but if I did, I'd like to be able to do things like this.

Re:Who cares?

[acidrain69]

Says the anonymous coward.

Out of shape, yes; fat, not really.

Maybe I should rephrase that. How about the mess created by throwing 30+ CD's around the room? Does that mean I get to call you a filthy pig for liking that idea better?

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but slashdot is just full of microsoft lovers; they would rather talk about microsoft than any other company.

Microsofts New Plan To Deter Piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Just give /. a review on the new threat and its taken care off imediately by the slashdotting

Re:In amount of time it takes to do all this work.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're talkin to Linux users remember. The same ones who'll spend hours downloading/building/tweaking/building/tweaking/bu ilding an app that offers 60% of the functionality of any of six Windoze shareware/pd apps (and about 30% of commercial apps) just to either save the $15 shareware fee/$120 commercial fee/just to avoid M$.

Remember, "it's only free if you don't value your time" and the average /.'er has more time than anything else (e.g. a life).

I'd mod you up if I had points.

[RatBastard]

Really, I would. You hit teh nail right on the head. Good post.

Re:I'd mod you up if I had points.

[Anonymous Coward]

U R TEH N41l h34|> H1TTAR!!!!111!!!1

I am not Worried

[Herkum01]

I am sure that MS will quickly sue those individuals who would dare play an PSX game instead of a legal one. The X-Box was not made for people to have fun, it was supposed to help MS make money. They will just have to get with the program like the rest of the suckers, I mean consumers.

Re:I am not Worried

[Anonymous Coward]

Right... Nintendo and Sony OTOH made their consoles with the only concern being the consumer's "fun". They had no intention of making any money whatsoever.

What's in it for Microsoft?

[RatBastard]

What's in it for Microsoft?

• How would they benefit from this?
  They wouldn't.
• What aspect of their business interests would this serve?
  None.
• How does letting people modify their console to play their competitor's products help them?
  It doesn't.
• Do they get any money from those $10.00 PSX titles?
  Nope. Sony does. (And since you have to use .ISO's, that's not really true, either.)

I don't see any business case for Microsoft not stomping this into the ground. Hell, they might even get Sony to help them out with this one as the need for .ISO's could be seen as an invitation to pirate PSX games.

Re:What's in it for Microsoft?

[JayBlalock]

So increasing hardware sales, and getting massive PR points among the technologically literate don't matter? The geeks who despise Microsoft and try to undercut them are the ONLY group who would have any interest in this. My point is simply they can do *nothing* and almost certainly be better off than if they act. And "acting" for a major corporation involves millions of dollars spent. Imagine the cost of a single high-profile court case. Then imagine that weighed against the amount of money lost to people who suddenly decided to start pirating X-Box games because they discovered they could play PS1 games. I'm guessing the case would cost more. Ergo, to do nothing and allow it to happen on its own is less costly than any other alternative.

Re:What's in it for Microsoft?

[rizawbone]

So increasing hardware sales, and getting massive PR points among the technologically literate don't matter?

Original, legit psx games can already be played on the psx, ps2s, and above average computers.

If you're technologicly literate and don't have one of the three, and rather dish out money for an xbox, solder, a modchip, and invest the time to dump and transfer every game you buy, I'd be incredibly suprised.

So basicly the market is for nerds with shitty computers, who haven't bought either of the last two most popular game systems, and who have more money and time then brains to pick up a $20 ps1.

I'm guessing this demographic could be counted on my toes. You're really, really reaching.

The irony is: *I* will probably be the one marked as a troll.

Re:What's in it for Microsoft?

[EvilSporkMan]

Hey, $20 not spent on a PSX is good money, plus money for games if you want to go down that road, and I'd really like to see a .ISO get scratched up and unplayable over time =P

Open Source SDK and Modchips

[Megaport]

Unfortunately there is no "pseudo-legality" about it. Until we have a legal SDK for the Xbox, the modding community is going to have to stay underground.

The best news in the last few days was this story about open source modchips on the games.slashdot.org site, so perhaps we are slowly getting closer to Xbox modding becoming a legitimate hobby.

Re:Open Source SDK and Modchips

[anonymous loser]

Actually I've been thinking about this, and I wonder if one couldn't install linux and use WineX to "emulate" the DX layer? Rather than depend on the nefarious use of MS's XDK, you can use the freely-available DX9 SDK available for windows to develop applications, which happens to have mostly the same API. Of course, there's a few extra functions in the XDK that aren't in DX9 for windows, but I don't think it would be too hard to add support for the missing functionality.

Re:Open Source SDK and Modchips

[Joe Tie.]

install linux and use WineX to "emulate" the DX layer?

I don't think anyone has been able to get 3D acceleration in an xbox linux, and without that it'd be sunk.

Re:Why don't you...

[kupo zero]

Because without it, we don't get all these worthless mods!

Re:In amount of time it takes to do all this work.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except person #2 doesn't have to do all this work anymore because person #1 has made a .deb or an RPM after all his hard work.

Saves $120 for person #2, person #3 ... person #n.

VGS, better?

[phorm]

Truly, VGS was very nice for less 3d-intensive games (some FF collection games notably) that didn't work as nicely on some things such as EPSXE. However, it lacked the 3d power and configurability of many of the more common modularized emulators.

If Sony had wanted, there were probably a lot of choices they could have picked up on after VGS for emulation, provided they find a way to reduce their usage for piracy.

Why bother? Just buy a PSX for next to nothing!

[Viewsonic]

Who wants a bunch of crummy bugs and imcompatabilities? Just go buy a PSX at your local shop for a few bux.. They dont even cost anything anymore.. The only reason I could see why someone would want this on their XBox is to pirate games (As usual.)....

Re:Why bother? Just buy a PSX for next to nothing!

[Anonymous Coward]

Or because they think it's cool, or admire it as a very nifty hack. Or because they appreciate the irony.

It was only a few years ago when not *everyone* felt the need to ride their moral horse whenever their limited vision prevented them from seeing a Use for something.

Re:Why don't you...

[Anonymous Coward]

But then you can't play Serious Sam, Thief, Deus Ex, Half Life, Counter Strike, Castle Wolfenstein, Morrowind, Unreal, Baldur's Gate, or Doom III on Xbox!

Re:Wonder of Wonders, MIPS to X86

[corsec67]

And then there is the issue of running something designed for a MIPS processor on an x86. You are paring 30 general purpose registers down to 4 specialized registers.

That is why I think that the PS2 will not be emulated for a while, you have to get by with 1/30 the register space. The registers on the PS2 are 128 bits wide, and there are 30 of them.

Re:Just a Glass a Day Keeps the Doctor Away

[Anonymous Coward]

Puzzling to me, however, is whether proponents of "urine therapy" chugalug their drink of choice on the rocks

If you cool urine too much the urea precipitates out.

Gotta say it!

[MegaHamsterX]

No use for a slow intel console, hey I'll buy a CD32 and a CDTV to go with that XBox.
Since the xbox uses an intel processor, with stripped down windows (from what I know) why not make an xbox emulator for the pc.
I don't know what the xbox software want's to see when run, but somehow someway it must be possible.
A wine xbox emulator, that would piss microsoft off :-)
Did I mention how I have no use for a slow intel console and it ain't going to be the center of anything in my house.

Re:Gotta say it!

[EvilSporkMan]

Since the xbox uses an intel processor, with stripped down windows (from what I know) why not make an xbox emulator for the pc. It's a bare-bones Win2k kernel, meaning less overhead. The Xbox [which is the RIGHT way to spell it, by the way] gets much better performance for its specs than an "equivalent" Windows PC would because it doesn't have the overhead of Windows itself - the GUI, system processes, etc. I'm approximating here, but a top-notch computer might not even be sufficient to run an Xbox emulator, especially one that wasn't fully optimized yet...(think 1.0)

Re:Gotta say it!

[AvengerXP]

[which is the RIGHT way to spell it, by the way]

Sieg Heil mein Komandant! Xbox is it from now on!

Re:Gotta say it!

[MegaHamsterX]

I do know how they spell it, it's another annoying product with X in the name just to look cool. I could see marketdroid masturbation in action when they thought it up.

I know it's a cut down kernel, but in a virtual environment it wouldn't be a problem if the hardware looked the same, think of.
Yes, you would need a copy of whatever is on the harddrive to boot it, as well as a copy of the rom in a file to run inside the environment.
As an example, you have an nvidia card and intel processor, most of the native instructions could be passed through to the hardware to speed execution.
Possibly not initializing the second processor in an smp system and using it like a coprocessor for the xbox app, dunno, I'm in way over my head here.
In any case that would be the only way I would actually play xbox software, and microsoft probably knows that and doesn't really care.

Re:Gotta say it!

[EvilSporkMan]

it wouldn't be a problem if the hardware looked the same
Yes, exactly. You need a computer that has a spare "Xbox-unit" of processing power AFTER booting, loading the OS and any startup cruft (firewall, anti-virus), AND running the emulator. You couldn't run an Xbox-emulator on an Xbox running Linux, for example. Hence my statement that you need at LEAST a tippy-top-of-the-line computer to run a not-quite-optimized Xbox emu, and I think the requirements get higher the less optimzed it is (think development builds).

To use your example of the nvidia card and intel processor, on a PC the card and processor are already busy processing the Spiffy Desktop (TM) and the basic overhead of the operating system.

OpenXDK the free legal XBox SDK

[gilesjuk]

Sounds good to me:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/openxdk/

@ IN SOVIET RUSSIA @

[Anonymous Coward]

Your XBox plays PSX games on you!

ok, this is just not my day..

[roka]

me: w00t, FFIX - finally!
compatibilty list: Final Fantasy IX - NO, Freezes on start after "Produced by Squaresoft slide"
me: damn, but maybe ChronoCross..
list: Chrono Cross - loads but hangs after i choose start new game
me: aaaah! xenogears! please!
list: Xenogears - wont go further than title
me: *sob*

This is what's in it for Microsoft

[roesti]

What's in it for Microsoft? The underground community that wouldn't normally buy anything branded by Microsoft are clamouring over each other to get Xboxes. Face it, the Xbox is cool to a whole different community now, and the faster the machines sell, the faster Microsoft gets its investment back.

Besides, if you've got a modded Xbox, getting an emulator is the only way you can play decent games on it. The Xbox has been out for a year and a half and Microsoft is still peddling its launch titles, and Halo 2 won't be out until next year. Call me cynical, but don't other games machines get good games on a more frequent basis?

Re:This is what's in it for Microsoft

[Cyberdyne]

What's in it for Microsoft? The underground community that wouldn't normally buy anything branded by Microsoft are clamouring over each other to get Xboxes. Face it, the Xbox is cool to a whole different community now, and the faster the machines sell, the faster Microsoft gets its investment back.

No, the faster the machines sell, slower Microsoft has to sell to get its investment back! (Their big Achilles' heel against Sony is the X-box's much higher hardware costs. Sony have aggressively slashed production costs, to the extent the PS2 is down to about two fancy chips, some RAM and a DVD drive - they actually break even on hardware alone. Microsoft have had to match Sony's price, but without the same cost savings - which means anyone buying an X-box who doesn't buy X-box games as well is eating away at their cashflow...)

Besides, if you've got a modded Xbox, getting an emulator is the only way you can play decent games on it. The Xbox has been out for a year and a half and Microsoft is still peddling its launch titles, and Halo 2 won't be out until next year. Call me cynical, but don't other games machines get good games on a more frequent basis?

Yep - that, of course, is why MS are fighting to sell X-box machines. If you were a games company, and had the resources to release a new game on one platform, you'd probably go for the most popular one - the PS2 wins. Even if it is a multi-platform launch, priority will go to PS2 over X-box.

To fight this, MS can either "bribe" the games company (cheaper deals on development kits, cut the licensing fee, even buy some or all of the company) - but that gets very expensive very quickly, and even MS have a point where it is just too expensive - or wave impressive console sales figures under their nose ("Look, we've got X million potential customers for you!"). So far, MS got some mileage out of the first strategy, at great expense, and are getting wiped out by Sony on the second...

X-box certainly hasn't been a flop; I certainly get the impression it's lagging behind the Sony juggernaut so far, though!

Re:This is what's in it for Microsoft

[UnknowingFool]

No, the faster the machines sell, slower Microsoft has to sell to get its investment back!

According to some estimates, MS is losing $100 per machine. Obviously they had thought that the money would be in games. Unfortunately their games have not been as numerous or widely sold as PS.

With the rumors from E3 that Electronic Arts will not release any titles soon because of MS policies, this picture gets bleaker. True, they announced that some 50-100 new games will be ready at the end of the year, but most of them are from MS or their subsidiaries like Rare.

Playstation sucks

[moncyb]

I bought a used PSX. It appears to be in good condition, but it sucks. Half my games won't play at any given time. I bought some used, but even the new ones with no scratches have problems. I'd like to be able to play the game I want when I want.

Are all the PSX systems like this? I'm sure their black CD surface "copy protection" doesn't help. I'd rather go back to the days of DOS where you have to configure the game for all your hardware and cross your fingers--assuming the game even supports your hardware at all...

Re:Playstation sucks

[DeadScreenSky]

I am not sure if it has to do anything with the black CD surface (likewise, I thought it being 'copy protection' was just a myth), but PSXs in general are known to be shoddily constructed. (Imagine, a Sony product being cheap hardware designed to break frequently!) They have a tendency to just die sometimes. Sounds in particular like that unit's CD laser is dying.

PSX emulation is pretty good on the PC, you might want to try that out too.

So.......

[Ride-My-Rocket]

I hope so. There has to be some benefit in exchange for women.

Excuse me, I think I'm a bit lost. Where do I go to exchange my geekiness for a woman?

Re:So.......

[jaybird144]

A liberal arts school. ^_^

Man there is some lame ass stuff going on here

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey guys...it's time you figure out that there are practical purposes for this.

I along with many people own the PSX and PS2. Well, I let someone 'borrow' the PSX so I can no longer play games on that. Of course the only game I would ever play is Castlevania: SotN...my first and favorite game on that aged console. Well, the PS2 hardware is really slow to load and just not fun to deal with, so I will be glad to be able to play SotN on the XBox. Word has it SotN works flawlessly...let's hope so. So I am lazy...its no different than people making MP3 collections for the convenience facter.

Re:Man there is some lame ass stuff going on here

[Anonymous Coward]

A PS2 can play PS1 games as well as the ability to increase loading times (does not work on all) and sometimes enhance the PS1 game. You do need a PS1 memory card though if you want to save. When you state the PS2 is slow to load your PS1 game you must have a problem with your PS2.

With regard to running a PS1 game on the Xbox - why bother spending money on an Xbox when you can get alot of legal PS1 games cheaply and you know they are going to work on either a PS1 or PS2.

PS. Castlevania: SotN is a really great game.

stupid question

[typhoonius]

Why emulate something through an emulator? Why host a web server on a Dreamcast? WE'RE GEEKS. IT'S WHAT WE DO.

NOT insightful

[Anonymous Coward]

Cant you read the article you posted too? the poster says exactly what you do, that its okay for MS to copy protect its Xbox. He's just noting how a locked down system is in consistent with the speech balmer gave last week on their supposed change of heart on desktop protection. Its not a conspiracy theory since its not even theoretical; paladium is coming and xbox IS the prototype.

Re:Why don't you...

[Anonymous Coward]

it works on cdrs cdrws or dvdrs if you burn the game as a bin cue file

You assume too much

[Anonymous Coward]

Get rid of your assumptions about people such as "ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS STEAL" and then maybe I'll read your post next time.

I just don't get the motivation

[burns210]

I understand that it is cool to be able to do this... but i just don't see why we ignore such a powerful console(PS2) which is atleast slightly more open to Linux and the community.

It works perfectly!!!! I'm amazed!

[Anonymous Coward]

I just tried it. I could not believe it work to about 99%. I could not identify any slow down.
The graphics were perfect. And there were no sound problems. I tried it with four games.

It is perfect for emulating games. Well done!

I hope the author has a job. The world can not waste talent like this.

How long will it take?

[LocalHero]

I wounder how long it will take for Microsoft to shut this program down? Or will they?

It might be just what they want

A lot of people seem to say this is inconvient.

[WhiteWolf666]

I don't really understand why?
I own an snes, a playstation, an nes, and an xbox.

I've got all my cd's ripped to mp3s on my home system, and I've got most of my dvds ripped to high quality vbr xvid.

Now, I can play all of this content through my xbox.

Nearly all of it, ('cept the playstation stuff) is shared through samba, and I can access it all through a convient, on screen menu system.

I also have in-game saves for all of my games, and it is really nice to be able to pick a playlist of a GENRE of movie you might like, and then push random.

Or TV shows, for that matter. I enjoy pulling up my Dune mini-series, or HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

All without swapping discs.

I haven't upgraded the harddrive in my xbox, but thats not a concern. I can either a) share what I need over the LAN, or b)burn it to DVD-RW, and play it that way.

What's the average playstation game size? 200 megs? 400 megs? Lets say 300, though I'm sure its probably less than that (I know that there are games that fill discs, or even span discs, but the vast majority of them don't). So 300 megs, I can fit maybe 10-12 games on a DVD-R. And if they gzip down at all, I can fit even more.

This is really cool, people. If you dump an 80 gig harddrive into your xbox, you can have a vast number of psone games on the system itself.

No more worrying about scratched discs. No more lamenting your messed up copy of FF VII which won't let you get past disc 2. No more loosing discs.

Simply navigate through the menu structure, and choose your form of entertainment.

Hell, I don't even watch cable anymore. My system simply records the shows I want to see, and saves them on my harddrive. They are recompressed to xvid, and then dumped in my tvshows dir.

South Park on tap. Final Fantasy on tap (one through eight!). Music on tap.

Life is good

Re:A lot of people seem to say this is inconvient.

[Anonymous Coward]

"My system simply records the shows I want to see, and saves them on my harddrive. They are recompressed to xvid, and then dumped in my tvshows dir."

Can you post some details about the toolchain that you use in order to achieve this?

Alternatively, send details to transitionality at yahoo dot com.

Thanks.

Re:A lot of people seem to say this is inconvient.

[WhiteWolf666]

Right now, i'm using showshifter---

Its unforunately not 'free', its a windows app, but it does its job pretty well. Its handles everything by itself, but it is a major resources hog, and slow to boot. This is on an Athlon XP 1800+, with 256 mb ram. I can't get it to record natively to xvid or divx without dropping loads of frames, so I record to mpeg-2

When exam week is over, I plan getting Freevo to work properly. It has lots of promise.

If your really ambitious, you can run Freevo on your xbox :)

When I started trying to get this project on my 'nux box, I figured I would need a disgusting set of shell scripts. So I went with ShowShifter, because at the time Freevo was not around.

Freevo has most of the showshifter functionality now, though.

This probably wasn't the answer you were looking for, 'cause its really not hardcore geek enough, but it works

Re:A lot of people seem to say this is inconvient.

[Anonymous Coward]

There Is More Than One Way To Do It. Which is why I asked.

I already know about Freevo. Will look into ShowShifter.

It's always good to have options.

Thanks.

P.S. Does ShowShifter handle the XviD post-processing, or how else does it happen? Does WinXP have scripting capabilities that I don't know about?

Re:A lot of people seem to say this is inconvient.

[WhiteWolf666]

Yeah, showshifter will run any codec you install into the Windows codec thinger---

It handles the post-processing pretty nicely, you can have it automatically queue up jobs when your system is idling.

If you have an uber box, you could probably record directly to XviD.

I prefer to keep some of my processor cycles free :)

This port is also a *GPL VIOLATION*

[EGSonikku]

The port is based on the open source PC PSX emulator PCSX and plugins. The Porter has NOT released the source code despite repeated requests. Just FYI.

Re:This port is also a *GPL VIOLATION*

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually he *DID* release the source code to his PCSX port. You can download it on his homepage.
http://xport.xb-power.com/

Only one answer to you...

[da5idnetlimit.com]

MAME.

It works. It preserved 1200+ games, some of which are now crumbling silicon from the 70s.

When the dreamcast will be 30 years old (or just 20...) then we can speak about preservation.

And if you REALLY enjoy Saturn, grasp a source code and help them.

As I OWN Tekken3, and some other games that survived my PS1, the coming of an emulator is all I want.

+ the guy distributes source, not bins...

Exactly

[swat_r2]

Very well said, that pretty much sums up the argument and puts the "haters" in their place. Having an Xbox is almost like rooting for the underdog (kind of ironic isn't it?) against a wave of neverending Sony fanboys! The PSX emulator is just another great step towards excellence in the underground scene. I just played Chrono Cross last night and it was great :)

Chrono Cross works fine!

[swat_r2]

I was playing Chrono Cross (from FF Chronicles) last night, and aside from some minor sound stutter in the FMV it played wonderfully. Except for some reason I couldn't save my game after playing an hour and a half, had to reset it and it pissed me off!

Re:Chrono Cross works fine!

[Anonymous Coward]

you are talking about chrono trigger. (FF chronicles) and there is a fix to get chrono cross to work by tweaking some settings. played it today.... works fine :0)