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KDE Success in the Enterprise
Arandir writes "Is UNIX ready for the desktop? Display Works Inc. thinks it is! They adopted KDE as their official desktop environment over a year ago, and KDE::Enterprise is running an interview with IT manager Tim Brodie over their experiences. This is a very good interview that covers why KDE was chosen, user migration, and wish lists for KDE. Quote: "I now see KDE taking the lead in polish and professionalism on the desktop"."
An interesting article; not only this, it addresses the issue of inexperienced or job-only computer users using KDE - hitherto not really mentioned in linux-promotion material (apart from obvious examples, eg. lindows). Quite a feather in kde's cap, I'd say.
:)
Or certainly a good sign.
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you
Let's face it, for well over five years the KDE team has slaved away forging a complete and total desktop solution for not just linux, but the intire UNIX platform. No small feet, that. Along the way, they've had to make some hard choices. Abandon the closed-source QT license or petition to have QT opened? Work on the linux frame buffer potential, or expand their prescence over into the *BSD projects? While GNOME was making critical mis-steps such as following in the footsteps of Microsoft, and using their FSF clout to force Redhat to hemogenize the redhat/linux desktop; KDE kept their focus almost to the point of obsession. Quality, and Nothing but. So, I say Huzzah to KDE! Truly, the GNU worlds' greatest example of the american dream -realised!
but what about countries besides Poland?
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I now see KDE taking the lead in polish and professionalism on the desktop
:)
I bet those Polish people are happy...
It's a pretty small installation as these things go, but most business uses probably revolve around those sizes of networks.
:)
So good news.
And, if it turns out that it's bullshit, at least it's first-rate bullshit
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
We are operating a LTSP server with (at this date) twelve concurrent users. We also have another four stand-alone workstations used at some of our other sites.
Without wishing to be overly critical 12 users does not constitute Enterprise level. Yes its nice to see a success story but do we really need to get a story on every KDE/GNOME deploment in the universe ? Can we maintain some perspective with the headlines please.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Yeah, and i see hot chicks. But I still spend saturday night alone, reading slashdot, and jacking off.
that is nice but what will ye do with this "blackbox"?
that when he wants to develop an in-house program that isn't going to be distributed anywhere else, the GPL doesn't require him to release his sources to the public, so he didn't need to be really concerned about the licensing issue.
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
KDE has been the best desktop for a long time. (Yes it starts up slow ... but I love taskbars.) fvwm95 is still pretty cool though. Its really fast.
I would think a small office would be much easier to convert then a large office.
These guys are supposed to be Linux-friendly; yet
their web site is useless! Come on, guys
Did Picard endorse this?
-------
Support Indy Music. Buy
fluxbox > blackbox
mount it, ping it, finger it, touch it, fsck it, etc.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, yes. what i live for
It's hard to say anything bad about the latest release. Works great for me.
And I've set several first time LInux converts up on it and they not only like it, they have a fairly easy time adjusting from windows to Linux.
It's really a good thing.
Thanks KDE guys, you got a good thing going!
Yeah, I think so.
You can go back to sleep now.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Wow, that's a lot of conjecture and speculation you're spouting, yet you haven't given any solid proof of any of your arguments. Most of it is objective (X is better than... Y is faster than...).
There are also quite a few flaws in your diatribe. (i.e. Ximian's Red Carpet is NOT part of "official" Gnome)
Anyway, for the real beef on KDE myths and facts, go here.
Why the Polish...I mean come on...what about us! =)
Big clue. There was NO (repeat NO) FSF clout. What RH did was a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. Of course Bold "I'll extract those 8 hours" Marauder should be familiar with "business" decisions instead of spreading FUD.
I personally find KDE to be better than Explorer for me. Of course windows on a whole is still far more user friendly when one considers program instillation, learning curve, and generally things working. However if one were to consider the desktop environment of windows compared to KDE I do find KDE to be superior.
Configurability: KDE hands down, the Control Center simply allows so much to be configured, my system is currently set up to respond precisely how I want it. Windows respond to mouse overs after the time I specified, right number of desktops with the correct visibility of other apps, themability also a big plus. Don't know if XP has themability or to what degree but I don't consider it a major function.
Look & Feel: Used to give it to Windows but now I think I like KDE better. Basically a function of familiarity of the system combined with actual looks, themability helps KDE here.
Usability: Both have a fairly comprehensive start menu. I'll discount the points I could give KDE for a greater amount of software initially since this isn't necessarily a long term effect as you'll fill both with software you need eventually. However I do prefer the KMenus method for listing large numbers of programs as a heirarchy, when Windows tries to list 3 full columns at once it's much too slow especially since you probably already know the location of the item you're looking for. Also KDE gets points for multiple desktops, yes I know that you can get programs for Windows to mimic that but it doesn't work as well, most notably it simply hide apps so that cycling through apps in one desktop gives you apps for all desktops. The file manager for windows is generally nicer but the combination of file manager and CLI built in for KDE should give it the advantage there but I'll call it a tie.
Either way overall I prefer KDE but after a certain level it comes down to familiarity. I used to use Windows alot and prefered that but recently I've almost entirely switched over to Linux, just found that the things I did alot were just as good and easy in Linux. Actually it's mostly multiple desktops that gets me. Frankly Gaim still isn't up to par with Trillian and Evolution isn't as nice as Eudora but the entire environment is nicer to work in. But either way that isn't directly pretaining to the Window Manager.
I stole this Sig
Odd, I think that most people would associate FUD with the actions of Microsoft, rather than the FSF. Oh well. It takes all kinds, I guess!
Give me a break, I have friends with more computers and servers in their homes than this company. No matter how bad KDE was, that Sysadmin could walk around to each desk and teach everyone in the company how to work with KDE in one day.
KDE is indeed very polished, snappy and comfortable, arguably more so than Gnome (apart from Red Hat's excellent Gnome). However, Gnome & GTK is a more future-proof *platform*, since you can develop a toy application with it, and if it is succesful, you can release it with whatever license you/your employer wants to use. With KDE & QT, your application will only be GPL, unless you cough up the money for QT license *before* you start developing your app.
For example, I develop Python applications in my current job. There are some python libraries that can't be released under GPL, by any means (the will of the company, not mine). In those cases, I just can't import those libraries when I develop a GUI application if I use PyQT. However, with PyGTK, I can release anything I want with any license I want.
So, the main point is that even if your application could be GPL, all the libs that the application would use can't necessarily be so. Of course one can use CORBA etc. the insulate the non-GPL portions, but it's a drag and I'd much rather use GTK. The code that uses GTK can be deployed everywhere without worries, with QT you have to keep vigilant that you don't accidentally GPL'ize anything.
In my view a library is not a "commodity" until its use is absolutely free of strings. That's the reason I avoid proprietary libraries, and GPL libraries. Liberate the infrastructure!
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
Aww come on chaps.
As an individual story this is kinda cool. As a slashdoy headline of "KDE success in the enterprise" it's just sad.
And I would imagine all the Apple users raised an eyebrow at "is Unix ready for the desktop".
Like some business somewhere uses KDE on their desktop... so what? You not see how desperate it is to be going nuts over this rather small instance... how many desktops exactly are involved here?
There have to be better examples than this.
As KDE has been making excellent progress into providing a unified approach to the desktop, I was getting concerned as to the level of effort into getting KDE into the enterprise.
I guess these things take time, but from http://enterprise.kde.org's website hadn't seen an update since Feb 2002 its good to see we are starting to demostrate the power that KDE 3.1 has. Not to mention that there is room for KDE within the enterprise and should be considered to be a contender in this space.
With KDE 3.2 clearly within our sights, I welcome the inclusion of policy restrictions into KDE's framework to effectively allow lockout policies. (This will allow all applications to follow a policy conduct as to what the user can do, execute it, not allowed to ect.). Note: It's presently there in 3.1, but no GUI interface.
Looking at the current CVS builds, including groupware collboration (meeting events etc) functionality in kmail and korganiser I'm very excited!
I'm running Suse 8 with the latest KDE build and I'm pleasently suprised how well it operates.
Power to the users!
>># "Following in the footsteps of Micrsoft", what's that supposed to mean?
"I'm refering to their shift in focus on implementing C#."
That's Miguels pet project. And using "their" is being disengenious. That's like saying everyone at KDE agrees with Mosfet (cringes is more like it).
After reading comments that there should be more examples, and a larger amount of clients would add credibility, I would say there is:
m ai n/0,14179,2860180-1,00.html
. sh tml?tid=19
How about 450 thin clients running KDE with 800 users? All running from one Linux server box. Now that sounds good!
Articles:
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/
and the follow up:
http://newsforge.com/newsforge/02/12/04/2346215
With the mickey mouse icons and an interface that looks like it belongs on sesame street, that's some nice polish and real professionalism.
I just checked out the new kde by trying knoppix for the first time (I'm still using 2.2.2 and 3.0.something on the two desktop installs I have), and while the latest kde release is so good I have trouble leaving the computer, it still strikes me how cartoonish the icons, buttons, and general widgets are.
I think they're very good, and kde in general is getting quite excellent, but the cartoonish appearance simply detracts from what is otherwise a fantastic piece of work. Professionalism? Are cartoonish icons/buttons/widgets professional?
That being said, I can live with the cartoonish features, and can't wait to update all of my computers. But I think they could do better for corporate desktops.
So has matrix 2 hit gnutella in decent numbers yet?
I tried the gtk-gnutella 1.* series on suse 8.0 after I couldn't get the 2.* series working (or was that 0.* after 1.* failed?) due to dependency failures. Just a few days after I downloaded and installed it, I get messages telling me that the release is full of bugs/issues, I have to upgrade. What a pia.
So with the new suse 8.2, and the new kde/compilers/whatever, I should be able to get the newer gtk-gnutella working. How stable is it? Does the release last at least a few months without a forced upgrade?
His mention of building KDE reminded me of my recent FreeBSD install experience. After getting pissed off at RedHat constantly locking up my USB mouse (I don't know why I keep trying Linux distros. I must be a sucker for punishment or something.) and failing to support my NVidia card (Your kernel is too old, update. Oh wait, now it's too new, downgrade. RPM compile? I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that) I decided to try building a trusty FreeBSD box instead. I figured, "if Linux is here, BSD must already be there too!" Well, I was right and wrong at the same time.
:-)
My first attempt was to build a Gnome desktop similar to RedHat. FreeBSD 5.0 itself installed cleanly, and with the help of a FAQ I was able to build NVidia drivers for 5.0. (One kernel module! You hear me Linus!!! One module for every friggin' kernel! BTW, for anyone who wants to do this, 5.0 is not officially supported by NVidia. The module will not install by default! You need to modify the header to remove the 5.0 checks and use the new AGP stuff.) So far, so good. I begin the build of Gnome. It built and installed cleanly. Unfortunately, the desktop was a little sparse and didn't look like the RedHat desk at all.
So I began tweaking it. I added Bluecurve to replace the hideous default theme and then tried attacking the problem of installing programs. It soon tells me "Only root can add to the foot menu". Fine. So I log in as root and modify the menus. Come back as the user and none of the new icons show up! Is this a sick joke? Even worse, I cvsuped and upgraded to Nautilus 2.2. Suddenly, I have no way to change the Nautilus theme, it looks like crap, and all my icons are "unknown documents". On the bright side, I can sample the beginning of an MP3 by mousing over. Swell. A search on Google Groups tells me that a *lot* of people are having this problem with Nautilus (both Linux and BSD) and noone has yet found a solution. But don't worry! They'll have an XML config file in the next version that will fix all this. Couldn't they have done this in the first place? This goes on for awhile, with the desktop getting worse the more I tried to tweak it. Oh, and it's impossible to copy desktop settings between users. Apparently, these config files are tailored to individual logins. They look like serialized objects or something. Bonobo perhaps? Finally I give up and install KDE.
Now, I didn't install KDE to begin with, because the 2.x UI was kind of flakey. It wasn't that it didn't work, it just kind of flashes and resizes in a very ugly fashion. None the less, I figured that 3.1 couldn't be any worse than Gnome. So I cvsup and begin a "make install". It begins building. And building. And (this thing is huge!) a day later I have a KDE desktop installed. No install problems to report. I booted up my brand new desktop, and.... WOW, IS IT EVER BEAUTIFUL. Well, save for the fonts. I had to tweak those a bit. 12 pt. Arial looked too thick on the screen. Later I loaded my TTFs from my NTFS partition. Cheating, but hey. Nice fonts are nice fonts.
Anyway, I just started *using* my KDE desktop. There really wasn't all that much I needed to tweak. I got Russian keymappings set up for my wife (a seemingly impossible task under GNO-it doesn't work-ME), installed KDevelop (nice IDE!), Netbeans (I love how unixes don't touch the swap file), and FreeBSD OpenOffice 1.1 (Side note: needs a full install per user. Yuck.). Worked like a charm. Even my wife, who usually hates these experiments, really loved this desktop. She soon was browsing the web, checking email, typing letters, etc. without my help. And she absolutely *loved* the action sounds.
So here I sit. One KDE desktop on the nicest OS known to man (maybe save for OSX) and I am happier than a clam. The really great part about KDE was that everything *just works*. Like with BSD where sendmail works from the point of install, KDE never needed my help to get working. I just had to tell it my preferences, plus enable KDM and I was good to go. No hassle, no idiot scripts to
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I use NetBSD every day. I use Mac OS X every day. They're both UNIX as far as I'm concerned, regardless of how many Erdos points they are removed from their AT&T ancestry.
You know what the Mac Window Manager is? It's a UNIX daemon. You know what Mac OS X "Web Sharing" is? It's Apache. You know what the core compiler of ProjectBuilder is? It's gcc.
Perhaps my definition of "UNIX" is too broad for some, but I see no reason to split hairs about something built around the same foundation and principles. However I will happily agree that Windows NT is not UNIX.
-- thinkyhead software and media
I wrote a language 5 years ago and I've used it to develop sites for brokerage firms. I still can't decide whether to GPL it or not. It's a tough decision. Lots of benefits (more developers, more usage, bugs fixed over time, etc.)... but then I don't have the evil leverage I once had.
amen brotha.. real men bb.
Follow the adventures of the new wandering jews
heh. He was clearly accusing you of spreading the FUD.
KDE Success in my Pants
The cost of a QT license amounts to roughly the same money it takes to have a decent developer working for a week or two. And this is ONLY if you're going to sell the end result. This could hardly be a problem for any serious product development company.
May we live long and die out
1. KDE 2. BSD 3. OS X ...oh wait. That's only two.
Everything Microsoft sells, we're going to give away for free.
Here's my comments on the Largo story, latest post on Newsforge, which is actually a side story on Mandrake's version of ltsp, but which references the Largo story.
My comments are repeated below, since no one answered on Newsforge. I, and I'm sure others would like to see answers to these questions from people with experience on this part of it. Especially since I know companies that would move sooner if they can avoid any licensing fees, like the citrix licensing, which Largo does use:
The article is over a week old. Other sites already linked it as news a week ago.
As for the scaling question, some of the posters at the story site are talking about maxing out at about 20-25 users or so, depending on hardware. Yet this is similar at what Largo Florida is doing, though I believe they are using citrix. So can someone explain how the dudes at Largo are putting 150-200 users, and can handle about 400 users on one server if the second one goes down? That's what the article states. I checked the specs on the hardware they're using for that performance. The servers are basically PII-400 dualies with a lot of ram. But the other examples of the ltsp project and the other story are using newer hardware, with GB ram specs, and much lower user numbers. What's up?
Can someone supply some real world numbers for the following setups? Assume a gigabyte ethernet card for the server, fast ethernet for the terminals, and a switch capable of feeding the gigabyte ethernet server card in all the examples and no citrix:
1. A server equipped with an AMD XP-3000 cpu, and 2 GB DDR Ram?
2. Same as 1, with 3 GB Ram?
3. Same as 1, with 4 GB Ram?
4 A server equipped with dual AMD MP-2800 cpus, and 2 GB DDR Ram?
5. Same as 4, with 3 GB Ram?
6. Same as 4 with 4 GB Ram?
7. If the dual boards can handle 4 GB per cpu, same as 4, with 8 GB Ram?
Let's leave the opteron's, the jokingly inferior, overpriced pentiums, the jokingly expensive xeons, and other (sledgehammer, air hammers, hammer's hammers) pipe dreams out for now. Let's also assume a raid disk setup that is not the bottleneck in this setup.
So how many terminals are we talking about? Using a free software solution? Without citrix? Is citrix mandatory? Any way around it? What difference would citrix make in the above examples, and can someone throw in ballpark licensing costs for 5 users, 10 users, 25 users, 50 users, 100 users, 500 users or similar breakdowns within these points?
I can convert a small business right away if I can avoid citrix and other recurring licensing costs. My relative can start talking to the non-profit where he works in the it department, with the 400 or so seats they have. They are already trying red hat in a few of their small satellite offices for file serving/print serving
If they can be shown a solution with linux and without citrix, and without the recurring licensing costs and audit preparedness costs/risks, I'm sure they'll jump on it.
Good questions. You are on the ball.
I work mostly with non profits too.
OK lets see what we can work out from them, I have the IT from Florida's email on another machine I am not at right now. I would like to keep a discussion open about how many servers Linux - minus cirtix can handle. Where can we keep this discussion alive?
What's the gui tool for iptables on knoppix? On debian?
What's the gui tool for resetting screen resolution on knoppix? On debian?
While knoppix doesn't perform a hard drive install, can it be used to actually install debian on the hard drive, that can be used with the knoppix cd?
Thanks!
Take it back to Newsforge I guess, the original article, linked in my post takes you there. There are other posts there as well, I'd suggest adding to my newsforge post, since that won't confuse it among the other posts.
I modified it a bit, adding "without citrix" at the top, as I think this is key. I've included decently equipped starting points for home/self-built servers, keeping out the hard disk storage from the equation. Being familiar with non-profits (a bit), time doesn't count, it's cheaper to build the box yourself than to save time/money by paying an outrageous amount to the big manufacturers. And the non-profits know where the support comes from...in-house.
Microsoft Visual C++ .NET Standard 2003 - $109. (About $95 if you shop around.)
Trolltech's QT library for one platform - $480.
Win32 is not that terrible, especially compared to X. Yes, it's not quite click-and-play, but with a little experience Win32 is easy to find your way around. The documentation and examples are second-to-none.
For Christ's sake - if the API isn't free nobody will write anything commercial for it. It's that fucking simple. Forcing someone into a choice of licence for their end-product because of a choice of GUI API is retardedly counterproductive.
How much of a fuss would people be making if Microsoft Visual C's EULA dictates how you use, licence and distribute programs generated by the compiler? The sooner someone re-writes KDE to not use QT the better.
PS: Check out The Fox Toolkit if you haven't seen it. Cross-platform and quite unencumbered.
Did anyone else raise their eyebrows when they saw the words "success" and "enterprise" in the title?
How many "ready for desktop" users are going to change their desktops? Take a look at "desktop" windows users still using the default installed desktop background almost ten years later...
First impressions...plus dependency failures...
Gnu/linux is addictive, but it sure ain't crack cocaine...we's got to keep em for while before they jump ship...
A couple of Slashdotters argued:I understand what you're saying, and I understand what Trolltech wants, but I don't understand how anyone thinks they got there.
GPL: You can distribute internally. Anyone who get the binary has the right to request (and receive) the source. Not a problem; that's all internal.
Qt commercial license: Some number of developers are licensed to build with the Qt framework and distribute the result with a non-free license.
So what prevents a shop from having a bunch of internal developers who only distribute their results internally, plus one licensed person who builds the "gold disk"?
P.S.: According to the URL above, you're supposed to: Seems to me the GPL gives you the right to do that. How does Trolltech expect to enforce the clause quoted above?
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
This is just the sort of snobby elitish pedantism which gets Linux into trouble, consistently. Lets see, how about we call your company "too small" to be called a "company" ...
... Linux *is* ready for most enterprises...
The word 'enterprise' is not a 'class' of business nor does it imply any 'size of business'.
The word 'enterprise' simply means "A business organization." as opposed to an educational institution, or personal user.
Please learn to use a dictionary, and especially work on your 'marketing dreck filter 101' language skills.
Whatever Microsoft (or IBM) may have done to this word, getting Linux installed in this budding enterprise is a damned fine thing. Hats off to to the entire crew of the Display Works crew for proving that yes
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Different countries, different scales.
In the US, a "Small Company" is under 500 employees.
In NZ, it's under 10.
In Poland, maybe it's 1?
Having just installed RH8 (9 doesn't work with WebSphere yet) for a development project I was really impressed with how far it has come since RH6 and RH7. In fact, so impressed I'm having another go at replacing win2k on my notebook with it. Last time I tried, I had trouble working with people using MS Word etc. Openoffice initially looks good - time will tell if I can interoperate. Its great that KDE and Gnome are moving forward so fast - they really look like a viable desktop platform these days.
> Quote: "I now see KDE taking the lead in polish and professionalism on the desktop".
Yes, the kde internationalization team have done a truly fantastic job.
Oh... *polish*...
I'll get my coat.
Si
I hate companies/websites that make you install Flash just to view their site. What a bunch of lame poop heads.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
just imaging ...
...
can you build a hierarchical system ?
many dumb X-terms (x-servers)
several idendical application server
(maybe sharing the same hd image via high spped nfs mounts)
(addresses with the same ip with RR dns, or on different LAN to pation traffic)
a "big" file (mail, http, database) server backend,
accessed only by middle tier machines?
more scalable ?
.
I don't think it's going to happen as long as de Icaza thinks he's like Microsoft except with "Libre". Can someone tell him to pull his head out of his ass?
/. threads as I didn't get that reference.
LOL, I must have missed some
Is there a problem in that area, personality or something?
I have recently realized that People dont care about Real Multitasking, Threading, a easy to use shell. What people dont want is "Questions" to a normal user, a "question" is a mind bogggleing thing, even if its just to turn off a startup hint, they will dread reading it and ask "whats this mean" to the nearest IT person.
What windows does is it ignore's us geeks who like to decide what we want top do and just does it without asking. So really, you just need to remove "Questions" and you will have a suitable desktop/home system.
This is also why I feel that a lot of people dont like the debian installer (even geeks).
The only thing Windows can't do is run on top of Linux :).
Sure it can, using VMware, Win4Lin, Bochs or Plex86.
Sorry, but words are important, and diluting their definition with marketing dreck is just not on, particularly in this day and age.
Attitudes such as yours are incorrigible because they allow for language to devalue itself, when in fact the value of language is in the participants' ability to understand each other, based on skillful use of words commonly defined.
The word 'enterprise' means 'business activity', and any skillful deployment of Linux technology in such an area *deserves* attention by those for whom "Enterprise" is not just a place for twibbles and scam, as in those for whom an enterprise is a source of livelihood and who thus stand to benefit from what Linux has to offer.
Arguing about words in a debate instead of focusing on the activities those words describe is a cheap foul!
Dictionaries, people! It's what they're for!!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
If you enable moused in sysinstall you can use the mouse on the console. However X needs to know it's the sysmouse it should be using (via moused of course) instead of its own driver for a ps/2 or usb mouse. So that's where the confusion comes from and people having trouble with the GUI X setup tool with the mouse "not moving" or "being stuck at a corner".
>Myth #1 - KDE is more integrated than GNOME
oh my god.
Flamebait, yes.
But sheesh!
That is probably the most rational _sounding_ flamebait I've ever read!
Not to mention the most long winded.
Somebody has WAY to much free time.
-john
Slashdot: you'll not find a more wretched collection of villainy and disreputable types...
> All of that is available in Windows. Get TweakUI...
Microsoft Windows: making you redefine "available in" since 1995! *g*
> But with a little work [...] you can make Windows (XP) do
> everything that made you choose KDE over Windows.
Okay, two point here.
1) KDE does NOT require 'a little work'. It's already powerful and functionnal that way out of the box. No need for crutches of any kind.
2) Last I checked, the Windows GUI was still broken in deep ways. You can't move or resize an application window that is busy. Killing a dead explorer takes down the ENTIRE desktop. Sure, it respawns right away (if we can't make it stable, well let's sweep the unstability under the carpet, right?) -- leaving behind the application windows that are busy and not responding right at the time. Window folding still isn't there. Advanced features (virtual desktops et al) felt awfully awkward last time I checked, behaving mostly like a single desktop with some windows hidden -- compare with the seamless way it works in KDE.
Etc, etc.
There are a number of issues with Linux, a number of things that work more smoothly in Windows, but the desktop environment is no longer one. That battle is over, and Windows lost it majorly (mostly due to its own monolithic design, funnily enough). Get over it.
-- B.
This sig does in fact not have the property it claims not to have.
"We are operating a LTSP server with (at this date) twelve concurrent users. We also have another four stand-alone workstations used at some of our other sites."
This is what Slashdot considers to be "The Enterprise"? This is the poster child for the success of Linux on the desktop that needs to be shared with the world? I've been a part of Terminal Services and Citrix implementations (shared applications) with tens of thousands of concurrent users. How is this groundbreaking or at all worth of discussion?
Better to find stories that explore the powerful side of Linux: as a low cost server architecture. This OS has no business being a day to day end-user desktop.
Maybe it will, but you'll have to wait a bit: no new major KDE release any-time soon, I'm afraid.
I'm all for developer meetings, been there, done that. But when they start to dictate release cycles, that worries me a little.
Simple answer. If QT is overpriced, Troll Tech will suffer the consequences of the business decision to set the price as they have.
A company can only successfully overcharge if it has a monopoly, is part of a cartel or has the government forcing everyone to use it's product. Otherwise you will get creamed by more competent managers who choose better prices.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
i think its pretty funny that you find kdevelop to be 'excellent ide'. do you actually program anything with it? because freebsd doesn ot even come with the most basic of kdevelop programs: kdoc. so you dont have the kde library documentaiton.
.... is something you know nothing about. Try running a REAL distro, such as Gentoo. Then you'll stop being such homosexuals out of sheer boredom, waiting for KDE3 debs to appear in sarge.
> gnome isn't filled with crap
No wonder after they removed nearly everything.
I feel sorry for the non-profit stupes that are going to suffer 100% downtime because of your "home-built" Tier-3 server that you dumped on them in order to save $150 by not buying the "jokingly expensive" parts.
Terminal Server -> Single-point of failure -> everyone sticks their thumb up their ass while you wait for replacement parts from pricewatch.
Dude. Get a Dell. And the support contract.
Sorry you lost all that dough, man. and your job. um. at least u still have linux? *giggle*
Oh so you're a pussywhipped 'new age' "man" eh? And she's a femminist BITCH!
Spoken like a single, never had a serious girlfriend (your EQ elf bitch you have cybersex with doesn't count) computer geek.
Database conectivity, OpenGL support, html rendering... a lot of stuff.
It also doesn't use propietary C++ extensions (the moc compiler) and you get full source of the library for every version (not just libs and includes).
And the license is non restrictive in MSWindows too.
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
We have been waiting for a mature open source PIM to become available, and Kolab is certainly looking good.
Isn't Evolution a PIM and a fine one at that? I've been using if for at least 18 months now and it does all my PIM stuff I need.
Compared to that, qt is free - grab the gpl version
Has the GPL version of Qt been ported to Cygwin?
"Install Linux." Has Linux been ported to the hardware of my PC which I received as a gift? How can I use Linux without tying up my CD-ROM drive if I don't have much free space left on my hard drive?
"Buy a new PC, and make sure to check the Linux distributions' compatibility lists first." Are you looking to hire a programmer with a BS in computer science in the Fort Wayne, Indiana, area?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I thought KDE was European.
That means that KDE is the BMW of desktops and Gnome is the Ford.
Let the flames begin.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Damn you KDE for making the icons and look of the interface hardcoded! Damn you for denying me the right to change the icons and the interface! Damn you to hell!
Damn you end-users for wanting to get actual work done and not to sit around all day not tweaking KDE's icons! Damn you to Redmond!
Will I retire or break 10K?
This isn't actually goats having sex at all. Isn't that ironic?
That's what online docs are for.
Not everybody can afford the hardware fees, monthly service fees, and possibly family relocation fees involved with wireless Internet access. Or do you refer to downloading a tarball of the online docs and installing them locally? Is that possible?
Will I retire or break 10K?