Roswell Declassified

John3 writes "Scotland may be the most popular UFO destination on the planet, but Roswell, New Mexico is the old favorite for government conspiracy buffs who believe the US government has been hiding proof of an alien spacecraft crash in 1947. Popular Mechanics has recently gained access to de-classified documents from the Roswell military base, and they contain no entries of unusual events or activity. I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists?"

Comments

It won't :)

[zaqattack911]

Conspiracy theorists are only fed by government denials. Look what happened to NASA when they started to talk back at Moon landing doubters.

zuchini

Re:It won't :)

[chamenos]

exactly....conspiracy theorists tend to believe whatever they want to believe irregardless of the facts that may speak otherwise. the declassification of documents will just be interpreted as an attempt by the government to throw them off.

Re:It won't :)

[oogoliegoogolie]

That is frustrating, but not suprising. A significant percentage, into the double digits if I remember correctly, of people in industrialized countries still think the world is flat, so it I am not suprised that there are ppl out there that think the moon landings are fake,

Re:It won't :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Conspiracy theorists all work for the government. Don't listen to them.

Re:It won't :)

[HanzoSan]

You dont have proof we landed on the moon just like you dont have proof that flying saucers exist, Pictures and Video are not proof. I also do not think its wise to blindly trust the government, this includes NASA.

Come to your own conclusions, if you think its a realistic possibility that flying saucers exist than they exist. I think its a realistitc possibility that they exist, whos making them is debateable, but I believe the pictures and video footage, I also dont believe millions of people would lie.

Now, as far as landing on the moon, I think it happened, not because I actually went on the moon but because I think the videos and pictures are authentic, and I think its realistic that we could have had the technology to do it at the time.

Flying saucers are real simply because our own government had prototype spy crafts which were flying saucers, its also realistic to believe the soviets could have had secret weapons designed to spy on us which just happened to be saucer shaped. The far out theory is that Aliens could be controlling them, this is possible too although much more difficult to prove, theres not as much evidence but its possible.

Ultimately the odds say flying saucers exist, theres evidence to prove it, the more far out the theory the less evidence you have and the more you have to trust the word of people. I do not like to draw my conclusions from the word of people, therefore I cannot say Aliens are controlling flying saucers, I can only say flying saucers exist.

Re:It won't :)

[HanzoSan]

Do your research before you post idiot.
CraftA Project Silverbug
CraftB

The Nazis had project Flugelrad and Wing Wheel, the British had Project Y, Canada had Y-2, and the USA had Silverbug.

Do your research on these projects to find out more information. We have had saucer shaped craft for a while, since the 1940s, around the same time the Roswell situation happeend.

If you want .gov links you'll search for them yourself, consider the fact that these projects were classified, finding detailed information about these projects from the government may not be easy as we cannot even find out how the stealth bomber works.

Re:It won't :)

[heli0]

I also dont believe millions of people would lie.

They don't have to be lying to be dead wrong. Ask someone what happens when you die. You will get answering ranging from pearly gates to 72 virgins to nothing. People have seen things in the skies for thousands of years. The only thing that changes is the explanations. We have gone from lights in the skies being gods(polytheistic societies) to angels(monotheistic) to aliens(atheistic).

Re:It won't :)

[LastManOnEarth]

Ok, Let's make a few points here... (1)Aliens can definitely exist. BUT... That doesnt mean they have to fly in saucers ,look humanoid, have interest in us, even develop sentience or technology. A microbe that is extraterrestrial is an "alien".You cant prove the ground under your feet isnt alive just because it hasnt proved itself to you that it is. And considering the bizaare circumstances that created life on earth was astrnomically rare (no pun intended :P)only created one sentient lifeform here that we know of the chance of meeting intelligent life in this universe is near null. (2) Id like to point out the trends of UFO sightings in past happen to coincide with alpha technology of the respective periods (ie. cigar shaped = jet/ boomerang = flying wing/ saucer previously mentioned)And due to angles and atmospheric conditions, man made sattellites that can be seen with the human eye from the ground tend to look distorted and move in odd directions. Notice that most modern footage is taken at dusk or dawn? Thats from sattellites being so far up they still are reflecting the sun and our atmosphere either squashes and/or stretches or even reflects it multiple times. This phenomenon is well documented and can be easily verified. Im not saying that all phenomena can be explained away so easily, but until we have proof (alien artifact/body/public first contact)I'll remain anchored to what logic seems to point too. That we are indeed alone as far as intelligent life and people are still desperately trying to find something to believe in.

Re:It won't :)

[skroz]

Thats from sattellites being so far up they still are reflecting the sun and our atmosphere either squashes and/or stretches or even reflects it multiple times.

I just can't get the image of Will Smith saying "Uh, some swamp gas reflected off of venus, and uh..." out of my mind.

Re:It won't :)

[dissy]

(snip) You dont have proof we landed on the moon (/snip)

Well, we do have proof that we have sent craft to the moon.
There is a flag on a pole that you can see with a powerful telescope, controlled by the same places that give us the wonders of technology we can see the outcome of on earth.

There are also mirrors on the moon which you can use to reflect lasers back (Granted the hardware to do this is pricy, but 'anyone' can do it)

Now, this just proves we have sent things up into space that ended up on the moon.
Doesnt prove it was a person.

But using your basic logic, if we have the technology to send a craft to the moon that can plant a flag and posistion mirrors, and return with samples from the moon, that exact same technology could very well hold a person inside as well.

Its sorta like saying people dont fly fighter jets because you cant see the people when the planes fly overhead.
While that is logically true, if you look at a jet, there IS room for a person in there, so its not at all improbable or impossible.

But there is just no convincing some people i guess :)

Re:It won't :)

[tftp]

Forget flatlanders. A much more significant percentage believes that this planet is directly ruled by an invisible, omnipotent old man that sits on a cloud in the sky...

Re:It won't :)

[podperson]

And considering the bizaare circumstances that created life on earth was astrnomically rare (no pun intended :P)only created one sentient lifeform here that we know of the chance of meeting intelligent life in this universe is near null.

I recall one scientist suggesting that if you have life on a planet then intelligence is almost inevitable. After all, he pointed out, it's arisen independently three times on this planet.

But then folks says lots of dumb things, especially when it's not exactly in their field of specialisation. I recall an interview quoting David Brin as saying "if there's life on other planets, we'll probably be able to eat it" -- a brave prediction given there's plenty of stuff on Earth we can't eat, either because it's poisonous or biologically alien to us (e.g. stuff outside the plant and animal kingdoms is frequently highly toxic).

Pondering the probability of imponderables is good work if you can get it. Carl Sagan quotes what he admits is a very crude formula -- 1/10 stars has a planet, 1/100 (?) stars with planets has a habitable planet, 1/10 habitable planets has life, life always develops intelligence, intelligence always builds radio telescopes but only has a 1/10 chance of surviving the invention of nuclear weapons, etc. always seemed to me to be far more sketchy as it got to the right side of the blackboard.

What are the odds that an alien intelligence will have a metabolism in our preferred timescale and thus be able to communicate with us in real time? What are the odds it will "see" and/or "hear" as we see and hear? Would an organism that sees with bat-like Sonar be able to convert a prime x prime grid of pixels into a recognisable image or set of symbols?

Bat-like sonar is a sense possessed by a creature quite closely related to us using parts of a brain very similar to ours. Imagine how alien an alien brain connected to alien sense organs might be.

Then there's the convergent evolution argument (exemplified by David Brin). DNA is obviously the best way to encode genes. Expect aliens made of cells, quite possibly with familiar proteins, carbohydrates, DNA etc. etc.

And who knows, maybe silicon-based life is actually by far the easiest one to come by and we're remarkable in that our solar system appears to be devoid of it. But silicon life all lives much slower-paced lives than we do so we simply couldn't relate to it...

By the way sentient i.e. "having a faculty, or faculties, of sensation and perception" is a rather low bar. There's a huge number of sentient creatures on Earth. If you're going for self aware, dolphins, gorillas, chimpanzees, elephants, dogs, and probably several other animals have demonstrated self-awareness.

Id like to point out the trends of UFO sightings in past happen to coincide with alpha technology of the respective periods

I think Weather balloons are well into beta by now...

That we are indeed alone as far as intelligent life and people are still desperately trying to find something to believe in.

To misquote Steve Martin: "With all the crazy superstitious people out there, I don't know what I'd do without my astrological mood-ring".

Re:It won't :)

[ipfwadm]

As others have said, the flag isn't visible from earth. Besides, why would you be looking for the flag, anyway? The base of the lunar lander is a hell of a lot bigger, as is the lunar rover that was used on the last missions.

Re:It won't :)

[Rxke]

if you refer to the apollo 11 flag... it's not standing up anymore, Neil Amstrong himself saw it toppling over when they lifted off. I'm not kidding/trolling, you can go and look it up in the transcripts sections on the NASA website, so it must be true (if you believe they landed on the moon, you'll have to believe NASA on that account too ;) )

deter or encourage

[Stinson]

either this will deter conspiracists, or just give them a new argument that the government removed the unusual entries before declassifying them. There really will never be a way to prove that declassified documents aren't modified

Re:deter or encourage

[sebi]

It was the Ferengi!

That is a lie!
It was Zoidberg.

Right

[Matthaeus]

And the documents that were declassified were all the documents associated with Roswell, right? All unaltered? Hey, look over there!

Not that I'm a rabid conspiracy theorist, but anybody who is willing to believe in a government coverup of that magnitude won't be pacified by a bunch of relatively easily-faked "declassified" documents.

Re:Right

[StarTux]

Considering Clinton was unable to hide his affair and that the F117 was also known well enough about I doubt, very much doubt anything of this magnitude could be hidden. Heck, even the Chinese stole nuclear secrets.

No closure here

[nukey56]

This is the equivalent of the government saying "no, sorry, nothing happened". Just because they realeased their "offical documents" doesn't mean that: A) they're true B) they're complete and most importantly C) they aren't counter-intelligence. Our government still has much to gain from having some sort of advanced technology. I suspect that once the world is dominated by one country, one culture, one affinity, that we will actually know the truth. But then again, the only proof may or may not be locked in a hanger somewhere, it's hard to tell.

Re:No closure here

[evbergen]

I suspect that once the world is dominated by one country, one culture, one affinity, that we will actually know the truth.

Ah, so the aliens brought weapons and Hollywood?

Re:No closure here

[ibennetch]

But then again, the only proof may or may not be locked in a hanger somewhere, it's hard to tell.

True, but the thing that I question (assuming "something" happened there, which I neither have an opinion on nor care about, this is just a mind-game) is the first-hand reports of the military and government personel who were involved -- especially in any cover-up. Here's what happens:

- Something happens
- "they" cover it up, remove all evidence and delete any documents reporting anything about "it"
- Everyone invovled dies of old age (Roswell was what, fifty years ago -- another twenty or thirty years and no first-hand witnesses will be around)
- No one ever finds out the truth

Re:No closure here

[Goalie_Ca]

I really hope you don't mean the U.S. country/culture owning the world. They may try but they don't know that canada has a secret army stashed away in the rockies and a secret moonbase death star. You will all become Canadian. Muhahahaha!

Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ?

[Infonaut]

Uh.. no.

Conspiracy theories are not really theories, in that they can never be disproved. The theory that the earth is flat can be disproved; the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved.

Conspiracy theory is a belief system, and as such is highly resistant to facts.

Re:Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ?

[TummyX]

The theory that the earth is flat can be disproved; the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved.


I don't understand the difference between those two. How is it that you can prove the earth is flat but yet can't prove the goverment has been infiltrated by aliens?

For example, how do you know that all the aliens in the government aren't faking all the evidence for the round earth? For all we know, all the evidence is just an illusion that is sustained by drugs the goverment puts in the drinking water.

Re:Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ?

[Blondie-Wan]

the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved. Conspiracy theory is a belief system, and as such is highly resistant to facts.

What a coincidence - so are the highest levels of government.

;)

Re:Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ?

[Matthaeus]

Go into the mountains. Put a unique item of some sort that you can test the uniqueness of (a large random number that you have memorized would work) in a safe and bury it. Note the GPS coordinates.

Now start walking west. When you get back to the coordinates, open the box. Verify the number.

It may not mathematically disprove the earth is flat theory, but if everyone who thought that the earth is flat did this, the rest of us could get some real work done. :)

(Alternately, you could take a few physics or engineering courses and try to figure out what sort of material could make an object the size and mass of a flat Earth and not collapse into a sphere under its own weight.)

Re:Will it deter conspiracy "theorists" ?

[Imperator]

the theory that aliens have infiltrated the highest levels of government can't be disproved

No, but I can prove conclusively that if they are aliens, they're not advanced aliens.

Conspiracy theorists.

[Montreal Geek]

I think the poster misses the point about how conspiracy theorists think entirely.

If the files show no information about anything odd happening, then of course it means they were cleaned to hide the truth. The fact that there is no proof of their pet theory is proof that there was a cover up to hide it.

This is the reason why those kooks annoy me so much; it's not that they beleive in a complicated, contrived scenario so much as they use the lack of proof for their delusion as proof of correctness. Making them, by definition, immune to logic or facts.

This is probably going to hurt my karma to dare say so, but one cannot help but notice the parralel with most religious beleif systems.

I guess the bad-guy-of-faith has been transposed from satan to some illuminati for those who feel the need to explain life by intervention deus ex machina rather than accept its unpredictability.

-- MG

Re: Conspiracy theorists.

[Black Parrot]

> If the files show no information about anything odd happening, then of course it means they were cleaned to hide the truth.

Some will take the lack of mention of aliens as proof that the aliens are real.

I think I'm going to have to lurk on sci.skeptic for a few days. This should be good.

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[m00nun1t]

Well, I've also got Karma to burn, so...

It's also a lot like /.
Report on the things you believe on (pro-OSS, anti-MS), avoid linking to things that go against that belief system, and report unconfirmed rumours (ie. Michael Robertson saying Microsoft were selling WinXP for $50 to Lindows customers, later refuted) as fact.

It's really hard to see the difference between /., religious extremists and conspiracy theorists. All 3 will make sure the "facts" line up with their beliefs, regardless of what is really happening.

I expect to be modded to -500 for this, but such is life...

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[Imperator]

I believe in God because the Bible tells me so.

The Bible is true because it is the word of God.

What? Why are you looking at me like that? It makes perfect sense!

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[Goalie_Ca]

What if the bible had a disclaimer:
The following text was made up by a bunch of drunk pimps in the desert who one day decided to become rich and powerfull by starting a religion. This text is not true though it may be based on "some" historical fact. The content of this book does not reflect the views and/or beliefs of the publisher, merely those of the author/conartist.

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[Surak]

Strange. I would say that I "believe in the Bible", because archaeological and historical evidence bear it out - from fulfilled prophecies, to supernatural events, to plain old facts. Its remarkable insight into human nature could also be considered contributory evidence of its divine nature.

Really? So rabbits chew their cud? There is archaeological and historical evidence of an actual flood that occurred 3000-4000 years ago in which all the people and animals of the earth were populated from the ones on that took a ride on an ark? The earth is only 6,000 years old? The earth is flat and has four corners? Note also that there is NO RECORD of Jesus bin Miriam's birth, life, or death (other than the Bible) despite the fact that the Romans kept meticulous records. Also note that there is no Egyptian record of the Jewish people ever being enslaved by them, and then freed by Moses, despite the fact that Egyptians also kept meticulous records.

There holes in the Bible big enough to drive a Sherman tank through without hitting anything.

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[Pinball Wizard]

There is plenty of archaeological evidence of a great flood taking place 3000-7000 years ago. Not only that, but the flood story is universal to nearly every culture. Where in the Bible does it say the Earth is flat or only 6,000 years old?(hint: it doesn't) Josephus and Tacitus both mentioned Jesus in their histories.

I can't comment about the Egyptians enslaving the Jews, but so far you've been wrong about everything else you wrote about, so it wouldn't surprise me to find that this is historical fact as well.

You are either supremely close-minded or only read biased history written by atheists. Either way, you're wrong.

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[yourmom16]

Also note that there is no Egyptian record of the Jewish people ever being enslaved by them, and then freed by Moses, despite the fact that Egyptians also kept meticulous records.Since we're on the topic of conspiracy theories(or at least supposed to be) I should point out that the egyptians covered it up, because the jew's escape embarrased them.

Re:Conspiracy theorists.

[Malcontent]

Just because there was a flood that does not mean jesus christ was the son of god.

Every culture in the world has a legend about a big flood which indicates there was some sort of a global event but that does not make jesus the son of god. Following your logic then all myths by all cultures are true because they all mention the same flood.

I have no doubt that the bible was documenting a lot the cultural legends and history of the jewish people but I don't for one second believe that it was the word of god.

The bible is a book of the jews. It makes the jews look good and everybody else look bad (which is understandable). It does not contain any information which would not be available to the jews living at that time.

There is no mention of the poles, no mention of pluto, jupiter, saturn or any other planets, not even a mention of the pyramids or the sphynx.

Surely if the jews were slaves of the egyptians they would have said something about the pyramids and as a previous poster said the egyptians would have written something about it. They seemed to have documented everything else that went on in their lives.

You can't say that because the bible mentions some event or another that all of it is true. Not even you believe that jonah lived in the belly of a whale do you?

Fake

[nEoN nOoDlE]

Those de-classified reports are obviously fake. The real UFO documents will never be de-classified due humanity's inability to deal with Extra-Terrestrial life on this planet.

Well, all personal conspiracy theories aside, why would this stop anyone from making up conspiracy theories? No one in their right mind would believe that the government would declassify documents that they feel could be damaging to themselves or the US public. Are they gonna declassify that they shot JFK (if they did) even 100 years from now? I think not.

Re:Fake

[dvdeug]

No one in their right mind would believe that the government would declassify documents that they feel could be damaging to themselves or the US public.

It's documented that the CIA tried to kill Castro with explosive cigars, that they tested LSD on unsuspecting subjects, that they withheld syphilis treatment for a group of black subjects for decades as part of a study. The government isn't monolithic, and has regular turnover on people, between politics and just plain old age. And between basic honesty, vengance on political opponents, and an active coverup being work (which is not why they took the job), stuff's going to come out. If the government shot JFK, no one would stand to benefit now from its coverup, and many people would actively try to unsupress it.

Glad that's cleared up!

[sam_handelman]

When I was an undergrad, all my CS profs (some people in math, too) at UCSC got hand-written letters from this fellow, who happened to be in prison, claiming that he was recieving encoded, telepathic transmissions from the spider-like aliens who had landed at Roswell. He couldn't understand them, and he wanted help "decoding" the transmissions.

Fortunately, we can reassure the fellow that no such aliens exist, now that we have a crate full of declassified documents. This must be a great relief to all of the countries paranoid schizophrenics. I bet hardly any of the text has been blacked out!

Oh ye of little faith!

[LucidityZero]

Destroy the conspiracy theories? I think not!

You guys just all wait untill the Bildeberg Group unleashes Space Gozilla to finally rid us of the Nazi UFO's! Then we will all know who killed JFK and you puny mortals will finally believe that the Moon Landings were all a hoax!

Give up on conspiracy theories? Yeah right!

Not very likely...

[Gandalf_Greyhame]

The whole theory behind the conspiracies is that the government is hiding something. Therefore the conspiracy theorists will refuse to believe anything that says that aliens have not visited Earth.

I find it highly unlikely that aliens do not exist. For as Douglas Adams said, we live in an infinite universe where anything is possible. The shear immensity of the universe allows the possibility for extra-terrestrial life to exist, and it would be rather sad if all of those stars we see at night had empty planets orbiting them. Having said that, I do find it unlikely that alien life has contacted humans. We are a fairly warlike peoples (it is true, look throughout our history, and you won't have to look too far back either) and I would not be surprised that if a peaceful alien life form found Earth, they would refuse to make contact with us. A warlike alien life form would probably destroy us however, and since that has never happened...

Chop chop!

[Faust7]

During the 1990s, the time limits on keeping Cold War-era records began to expire.

And thus the Ministry of Truth went into overdrive, scrambling to correct everything before its final release...

Consipracy nuts...

[Realistic_Dragon]

Lets face it, if the g'ovt produced an alien and said 'this one turned up last week' the conspiracy theorists would assume that it was only as a distraction to hide something of even bigger importance.

We will never be rid of them - just like we will never be rid of Open Source naysayers, BSD is dead trolls and other assorted kooks.

John3: to answer your question....

[wowbagger]

John3 (the story submitter) wrote:

I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists?

Having read the first few posts on this story, do you consider your question answered?

NO answer from the government, nor indeed from anybody will quiet the conspiracy theorists:

• "Here's all the documents on the base - see, no unusual activity."
  "Yeah, like you'd release the REAL documents rather than these forgeries!"
• "Here's the documents - something landed, but we aren't sure what. Here's all the info we have."
  "SURE that's all the info you had - see, we told you there were hiding something, and they still are!"
• "Greetings people of Earth. I am the ambassador from the Galactic Federation. Now that you have achieved the required levels of societal and technological advancement, we are allowed to make contact. Yes, you in the back..."
  "Have any aliens landed on Earth before this?"
  "No, that is completely forbidden under our laws."
  "SURE nobody else landed here - YOU ARE COVERING IT UP!"
  "Perhaps we jumped the gun on your societal evolution...."

COVER UP!

[isa-kuruption]

These documents are from Area 57... they just whited out the horizontal part of the 7 so you THINK they are real!!!

Roswell Log Files!!!

[Chromodromic]

July 4, 1947

Cpt D Anderson, Dty Ofcr
Base Log Entry

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! UFO landed today!!! Aliens look like Gumby dolls with big heads!!! Jesus, they're ugly!

As if this shit isn't enough, there's some guy hanging around all day smoking cigarettes like they're going to be illegal tomorrow. He says he's "in charge". Whatever. I'm out in two months anyway.

Also found: Advanced weaponry, an anti-gravitational drive, a cure for cancer, and alien porn! It's revolting, but I'm strangely aroused.

NSA ADDENDUM: Please strike all this shit out. This is supposed to be a secret. Cpt. Anderson, please see me.

Well, slow day here today. Nothing happened, nope, no sirree, not a bit, quiet here, yup, quiiieeeeet.

Re:Roswell Log Files!!!

[romec]

Clearly another Consipracy, Gumby was created in 1956
Gumby Site
Its all a conspiracy from the Federal Government and Major League Baseball!!!! Get your tin foil hats NOW

THE GOVERNMENT IS STILL HIDING THE TRUTH!!

[tiny69]

/me puts his tinfoil hat on so that everyone will know I'm telling the truth...

The "Morning Reports" indicate that nothing happened. Of course no staff duty log or "Morning Report" would contain any classified information. If something was accidently added, that log would have been rewritten within a day. The governement change their story the next day. What would keep them from changing any daily logs?!?

/me goes to check the supplies in the fallout shelter

These documents only prove the the government is still trying to hide something!!

/me sees black helicopters flying around

Everyone else is nuts for believing EVERYTHING the government tells them!!

/me sees strange lights in the sky

Oh no!! They've come for me....

Re:I don't know...

[LBArrettAnderson]

yes, the truth is out there. the question is whether or not we'll get ahold of it.

if there really was an alien craft do you think they'd release THOSE documents? no. this doesn't deter anything

What an odd idea

[kfg]

"I suspect that once the world is dominated by one country, one culture, one affinity, that we will actually know the truth."

This is like saying that if there were only one newspaper we'd know the truth. Or that China is the paragon of open information.

It is only through the maintenence of mulitiple sources of information, power and control that the truth can ever be known.

KFG

Re:Theres many UFO conspiracy theories.

[operagost]

I don't think the German military was doing anything of the sort in 1946. That's because there wasn't one.

Not everything is declassifed by definition

[Anonymous Coward]

from the NISPOM (National Industrial Security Program Operating Manual)...

http://www.dss.mil/isec/nispom_0195.htm

Duration Of Classification:

Declassification is the authorized changing of information from classified to unclassified. When information is originally classified, the classifier must now attempt to identify a date or event upon which the information will be declassified. The standard in this Order is that information should normally remain classified for no longer than 10 years. But the Order also recognizes that there are some circumstances in which information must stay classified longer than 10 years because disclosure would cause damage to national security even after 10 years. In such cases, under Section 1.6(d) of the Order, the original classi-fication authority may exempt information from the "10-year rule" only if, after 10 years, disclosure would be expected to:

a. Reveal an intelligence source, method or activity, or a cryptologic system or activity (X1),

b. Reveal information that would assist in the development or use of weapons of mass destruction (X2),

c. Reveal information that would impair the development or use of technology within a United States weapons system (X3),

d. Reveal United States military plans or national security emergency preparedness plans (X4),

e. Reveal foreign government information (X5),

f. Damage relations between the United States and a foreign government, reveal a confidential source, or seriously undermine diplomatic activities that are reasonably expected to be ongoing for a period longer than 10 years (X6),

g. Impair the ability of responsible United States Government officials to protect the President, the Vice-President, and other individuals for whom protection services, in the interest of national security, are authorized (X7),

h. Violate a statute, treaty, or international agreement (X8),

The designators in parentheses following each item show the exemption categories specified in Section 1.6(d) of the Executive Order. Either the designator or a brief description of the exemption will now be applied when marking documents containing exempted information.

The Order permits such extensions up to 25 years, when most classified information must be declassified. However, in a very small number of situations, some information may remain classified for longer periods.
emphasis mine

i have worked on programs which fall into the very last line.. they will be declassifed... maybe.. in 75 years... but probably not.

Why rebuke conspiracy theories?

[Fefe]

Every culture needs myths, fairy tails and mysteries. America needs it's own Loch Ness.

And it's good for the government, too! These kooks wasting their time on area 51 won't have any time left to poke around in current conspiracies. And the more really outlandish conspiracy theories are out there, the less likely the outlandish conspiracies that actually happen are, so nobody will believe them.

If we really had obtained alien technology, why would we still pollute our ecosystem to get from A to B? You'd think we wouldn't need to burn fossils any more for transportation.

The gov controls the media.

[HanzoSan]

I'll tell you why. First people want to believe they can trust the government. Second people want to believe they can trust the media. Third people are ignorant.

The Media is controlled by the government, the government will have you fired if you go on TV and say the wrong thing, just ask Bill Mahr or any of these others who said the wrong thing on TV.

People want to protect their jobs, and because of their political status alot of them know they wont get any more secret information from the government, no more leaks, nothing, if they were to support any conspiricy which could harm the government.

This is why media people refuse to believe that Bush may have lied. They refuse to believe Bush may have lied to the American people to get us to go to war with Iraq, even when intelligence officials and others are saying he wasnt being truthful, even when the evidence says he could have been lying, people want to protect the government so they blame the CIA. Why the CIA? Because the CIA always takes the blame.

Re:I don't know...

[hpavc]

correct, its the 're-release remastered roswell' documents.

Put your tin foil hats away, please

[stwrtpj]

Rather than replying to a whole bunch of tin foil hat brigade posts, I'm going to combine what I know of the case into one post. In my younger and more foolish days, I was a UFO nut and soaked up every account of alien visitors. As I got older, I started looking at many of the facts of the case in a more objective light.

The conclusion I have come to is that the Roswell case is a conglomeration of multiple accounts of unrelated occurences occuring over the span of ten years that were later cobbled together into a single, misinformed account.

There is one very important fact that needs to be made clear about the entire Rosewell bru-ha-ha. A lot the publicity for it, namely the theory that an alien spacecraft crashed there, did not come about until well after the incident. In fact, it was not until as late as 1978 that alien bodies were ever associated with the incident.

So, bearing this in mind, here are some of the little factoids about the case that appear to have perfectly logical explanations:

• The little alien bodies - For some time durintg the late 1940s and early 1950s, the USAF conducted a series of tests which involved shoving anthropomorphic dummies out of planes from high altitude, usually to test parachute equipment. These dummies often wound up in people's farms. Not only did the USAF not cover this up, they encouraged people to report the location of these dummies, and even paid rewards for them. No coverup here. This is all documented.
• The alleged bits of alien spacecraft scattered over the landscape - The oft-repeated refrain from the tinfoil hat brigade is that the government claimed that this was a weather balloon. This term is a misnomer, and was never used by the USAF. This term was invented later. At the time of the alleged crash, the USAF had just started Project Mogul, which involved the launching of several high altitude balloons for various scientific experiments, including the effect of cosmic rays on living tissue samples. In fact, the very first such balloon crashed at about the time that the supposed alien ship crash happened. Once again, this is all well-documented, including the locations where these dummies we retrieved.
• The living alien at the hospital - Many accounts of the incident involve an actual living alien being escorted by USAF personnel. The figure is discribed as having the characteric large head of other supposed accounts of aliens. This is yet another case of an unrelated event being tied to Roswell. In 1959, a Captain Dan Fulgham received a nasty head injury that caused a massive hematoma. As a result, his face and head swelled to grotesque proportions. Even his own wife didn't recognize him at first. Documented. No coverup.

Ok, this post is long enough. There are lots of other little factoids from the case (the so-called "Missing Nurse", the alleged "red-headed captain" that threatened people if the said anything, etc) that I could go into, but all of these facts can be found with a little investigation.

But I can predict the responses now: "The government planted those other stories to throw us off the trail!" "They're feeding disinformation to us.!" Bull-fucking-shit. Check your history, people. The US government sucks at covering up anything of importance. Anything that remains classified now from that long ago, it's largely because no one considers the information important.

Finally, here's another one for you: You say we recovered advanced alien tech. You say we recovered alien bodies. Then tell me: Where the hell is this technology? 56 years is a hell of a long time. We've gone from vaccuum-tube ENIAC that fills a room to a 2.6 gigahertz PC that sits in your lap. If we can't in that space of time figure out what made any alleged UFO from Roswell tick in that space of time, then either it never happened, or the government scientists are all idiots. And don't claim that things like stealth tech resulted from alien technology. Give humanity credit for be

Re:Put your tin foil hats away, please

[Moldy-Rutabaga]

>The conclusion I have come to is that the Roswell case is a conglomeration of multiple accounts of unrelated occurences occuring over the span of ten years that were later cobbled together into a single, misinformed account.

This is excellent writing. Thank you for the voice of sanity. I often wonder how the same government which can't balance a budget, and can't hide from the public either bugged party offices or intern oral sex, is capable of covering up Kennedy's FBI assassination, a faked moon landing, and space aliens. This is not a criticism of the American government, rather the reality that they are human beings like us who make mistakes.

I agree with a previous poster who claimed that the desire to believe in conspiracies alleviates some from accepting that life can be unpredictable and tragic--one loony can, in fact, go out and kill the president. I do not think that condemning those who have religious belief for the same reason is a good comparison. Believing that God has a personal and historical relationship with man, and being in a community with extensive written records of this relationship going back thousands of years, is not the same as believing Elvis is alive because the Midnight Star says so. If one doesn't believe, fine, but I don't think the situation is equivalent.

Ken:>

Re:Put your tin foil hats away, please

[TummyX]

We've gone from vaccuum-tube ENIAC that fills a room to a 2.6 gigahertz PC that sits in your lap. If we can't in that space of time figure out what made any alleged UFO from Roswell tick in that space of time, then either it never happened, or the government scientists are all idiots


Where do you think the computer technology came from?

Re:you skeptics amaze me...

[stwrtpj]

Then, the Air Force said the *alien bodies* were actually dummies used in testing human conditions at high altitudes (ie. ejecting at high altitudes), yet the tests didn't start for 5 plus years AFTER the *Roswell Incident.*

And the first tinfoil hat conspiracy theories did not come up until years after this

Read my rant titled "Put your tinfoil hats away, please", and educate yourself.

He was asked what was inside the infamous hanger, and he said never to ask that question to him again.

OMG, yes!! Wow!! Thanks for reminding me of that! Yes, wow, that one statement conveys sooooooooooooo much. I'm so, like, totally enlightened now! Of course, when someone answers a question like this, it certainly MUST be code for "There's an alien spacecraft in there, but you didn't hear that from me."

Dude, do you think that just MAYBE his response REALLY meant: "I've been ask that same assinine question before by every single UFO nut out there, and I'm goddamn fucking tired of it."

Pickery of nits.

[DoraLives]

There is a flag on a pole that you can see with a powerful telescope

Yes, we went to the moon.

No, you can't see ANY of the stuff we left there with ANY telescope. Too small. Too far away. Good thing we also left the laser reflectors, huh.

Carry on.

I have a simple question for the believers:

[Artifex]

Why haven't any corrupt government officials made money off the technology, yet, if this is true?

Why haven't we seen huge revolutionary leaps in technology beyond what we'd expect with Kondratiev and other cycles, instead of just jumps along an evolutionary scale?

Sure, they could keep it secret for a while, but 60 years later is a long time.

Re:I don't know...

[andrew_mike]

...but the truth is we got UNIX from the Roswell UFO...

It makes sense. Only aliens could have invented something like UNIX.

Half-Baked.

[Fantastic Lad]

This guy, (probably through laziness), uses here a technique which masters in the art of counter intelligence and social programming long ago discovered to be highly effective. --That is, drop a few sort-of related factoids, and the minds of the target audience, (which are already eager to believe in the comfy Learning Channel version of reality), will happily assume that there is both causation and effect where none really exists. They then go back to sleep before any glimmer of scary thinking can occur. Witness the +5 moderation of the above post. And stand in awe. And fear. These are the same breed of drooling morons who will turn you over to the Homeland Police someday soon.

Anybody who cares to actually do the research, (as the poster so blithly suggests), will quickly realize that it is quite impossible that plastic army men and one guy with a head injury are accountable for the thousands of grey aliens which have been witnessed around the globe over the last century.

And I love this one; who cares when the term 'weather balloon' was coined? That detail has absolutely no bearing on anything important. --Why even bring it up? Perhaps the author hopes that when it is read quickly along with his other bulleted factoids, it might pass as some sort of evidence which sort of means something. --A technique used by shabby university students trying to pad essays the world over.

As for buddy's final, heart-stopping question. . ,

You say we recovered advanced alien tech. You say we recovered alien bodies. Then tell me: Where the hell is this technology?

This is Jr. Highschool junk philosophy at its finest! Why not also throw up the, "If God exists, how could he let there be War?" argument and be done with it? Grow up.

Only those living in happy TV land believe that the state has any interest whatsoever in the welfare of common humanity. There's a reason you can't buy even the most mundane, human-derived military secret down at the local Radio Shack.

Think about it. Aside from everything else, (and there are more points than I can even begin to count off the top of my head), there is no profit in war if you sell your country and the world on technology which is actually effective.

The real war is one you can't see. --And by my estimate, you've already lost about four fifths of it if you are willing to post garbage like the above. Sheesh.

Good luck. You'll need it.

-FL

one thought

[mpost4]

Is just not possable that alians have never come to earth, even if they exist, which I don't know one way or the other, and don't care.

I just say if they exist more power to them, if they don't oh well no big deal.

If I were to be asked if I belive that they exist I would say, it is posable given the massive size of universe, so why not? But do I think they have come to earth, I would say no, and if they did they would not come just to give some hillbillys anal probs, or draw circles in fields, or turn cows insideout. That would seem to be a waist of time and effort to come to earth for a few pranks. But who knows they might be among us, sorry I could not resist that one.

It Took Them 56 Years to do What?

[Nom du Keyboard]

It took them 56 years to say that nothing happened. Yeah, right.

Sorry, but we know people they threatened there at the time. And believe me, they did an excellent job of scaring the people there over what? A weather balloon? Pleeeeze.

And to those of you who claim it there is no secret because the government couldn't keep such a secret so long -- What Secret?!?! This has been leaking out all over the place for years. Think a little bit, folks.

Re:It Took Them 56 Years to do What?

[Idarubicin]

It took them 56 years to say that nothing happened. Yeah, right.

Ask a Pentagon official about something classified. Go ahead. Try it. The answer you get will be along the lines of "We can neither confirm nor deny..."

If they said, "Well, I guess it won't hurt this time to tell you that nothing really much happened at Roswell, and we classified our investigation because we were embarrassed to waste all that time and money..." What would you think? The next time you ask a question and don't get more information, you can think "Ah hah! They're really hiding something good, now! If there was nothing to this story, they would say so." And so the whole 'neither confirm nor deny' practice goes out the window.

Re:It Took Them 56 Years to do What?

[Nom du Keyboard]

we classified our investigation because we were embarrassed to waste all that time and money..." What would you think?

I'd think cover-up. Whether incompetance, or actually what is alledged, I'd say I'm not getting the straight story.

And as I said before, I do know items were found that have not been explained yet.

Re:I don't know...

[MADCOWbeserk]

but the truth is we got UNIX from the Roswell UFO

So this means SCO doesn't have a case?

Real cover-ups

[Animats]

Here are some real events in the US that were covered up:

• DuPont family member sets up secret training camps for paramilitary forces in preparation for a coup against Pres. Roosevelt. (1934)
• US Explorer space satellite program was a cover story for spy satellites. (1960s)
• The "Tonkin Gulf attack" used by Pres. Johnson to justify the Vietnam War never happened. (1964).
• Bush crony involved in massacre of gold miners in Tanzania. (1996)

Re:Real cover-ups

[twaltari]

Bush government made up stories of weapons of mass destruction to justify starting the war with Iraq (2003).

Re:Of course it won't...

[sebi]

If these declassified documents are truly complete, there HAS to be a reason they were classified in the first place.

Maybe the fact that Roswell, according to the article, was "home to the only atomic bomber unit (at Roswell Army Airfield) in the world" had something to do with it. We are talking 1947 here. The war has ended two years ago and the fight against commies is on. Could it be that all documents from that base were automatically kept secret? Were you able to look at the records from the 3rd of July 1947 before now? What about the 5th?

Manhattan Project

[sprayNwipe]

The US government sucks at covering up anything of importance.

I'd say that they managed to hide the development and creation of a nuclear weapon, on a project with thousands of staff, pretty well.

The problem with alien life is that there can never be any proof to say it never happened - after all, you can't prove nothing. The only way this would ever be resolved is if the US Government did end up doing something in Roswell, and then admit it sometime in the future.

Re:GRAMMAR NAZI says:

[Sj0]

How many people do you see using the word 'aint' on slashdot? There is a certain level of formality required to sound intelligent, and for the most part, that is maintained on technology sites like this one. You'll also notice that few, if any of the people on this site use casual internet-style, such as "Wow! U R Soooooooo Kewl!!!!111" on slashdot. Thank god.

The protocol of a fairly formal writing style on this site also helps root out local slang, which would be inappropriate to use.

Therefore, 'irregardless' shall remain incorrect, or it will mean 'with regard', since it is a self-contained double negative.

fake release

[lo_fye]

Releasing documents that have no evidence of alien activity could be just another layer of conspiracy/coverup... at least that's what we conspiracy theorists would say ;)

Best way to deal with conspiracy theorists ...

[magellan]

Do what Buzz Aldrin did. Just slug 'em.

http://www.csicop.org/articles/20021018-aldrin/buz z-aldrin-punch-video.mpg