Slashdot Mirror
Massive WWDC Rumor Roundup
An anonymous reader writes "MacRumors.com posted a massive rumor roundup of all the major rumors surrounding Apple's World Wide Developer's Conference which starts next week. There's been talk of 970 PowerMacs, PowerBooks and Panther... seems like the biggest uncertainty is whether or not 970 PowerMacs will ship or not."
Man, tough morning, first I'm thinking something about WMDs, then I'm thinking some kind of zany religious shit (What Would... DC? Huh?).
Then I realize it's Mac-related, and so it is kind of zany religious shit (as if us linux-ites are drinking any less kool-aid).
they HAVE threatened legal action on quite a few rumour sites recently - Think Secret's still got 2 pulled stories on it's front page.
That was classic intercourse!
i think the biggest doubt is weather the 15inch powerbooks will ship and not the powermacs. The rumors on the 15inch powerbook are pointing in different directions with some people saying they are boxed and ready to be shipped while other people are saying they just went into production...
----
12" ibook, G3 700, 640MB RAM, 20GB HD
But I believe "G4" is not the name of the processor that will be in the replacement machines...
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
Whether or not slashdot editors will ever startproofreading their stories or not.
I'd think that'd be a rather low estimate on the number of PowerMacs they'll be able to ship.
2. Get mentioned at Slashdot.
3. Everyone jeers and boos.
4. ???
5. Loss
Loss? Apple has been posting underwhelming but definite profits (almost) without fail for every quarter in the last three years. Name five other companies that have done that. On second thought, given the economic landscape, those profits are not really underwhelming. Still, it was a useful post. Thank you for attempting to add to the Apple Death Knell Counter. Given the likes of John Dvorak as your potential company on that list, your parents must be very proud.
The simple truth is that Apple matters. There are things they innovate (like Quicktime, the Newton, and Firewire, etc etc etc) that are ahead of their time. They also can take existing markets and make something far and away better than what is there (iPod being the most recent example). What's more, they can take someone else's technology and make it acceptable (USB, anyone?) And they also can produce things that change the way you think about 'X'. In this latter category I'd put the GUI, Quicktime, and most recently the Music Store. I have completely changed the way I look at music, thanks to the iTMS and my iPod.
As long as they keep this up, and I don't see why they can't, they will matter and will draw people who want to speculate about the latest and greatest.
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Okay, here's the issue. The reason this is important is that it will increase the relative speed of the PowerMac 2-fold. Right now, the G4 is 1.5-2 times the efficiency of the P4 at the same clock speed. The 970 (G5) will be 1.5-2 times faster than the G4 at the same clock speed. If you do the math, this means the 970 will be 2.5-4 times as fast as the P4 - as well as having dual processors when using Altivec enabled apps, including the OS. Estimated initial clocks are 1.4-1.8. An dual 1.8 (3.6 total) 970 wouls be CONSERVATIVELY equal to a 9 GHz P4. Make sense yet why this is important?
***
Its amazing how little information has got out on Mac OS X Panther (10.3). This is what Apple is claiming WWDC is about and next to no information on this new OS version has been leaked. Last year, with Jaguar (OS 10.2), there were screens on ThinkSecret and a rundown on many of the new features but with Panther there is next to nothing. All there really is is speculation on piles and even this information is highly doubtful. It seems Apple has finally blocked the rumor channels. :-(
I can't believe you were modded up for that. Apple can quite happily continue for several years taking losses, given the amount of money they have. In fact, they're a profitable company, so that isn't an issue. Their consumer and portable lines are doing well, as is the music related stuff. Talk of Apple disappearing is ridiculous. People will be disappointed, yes, but they're going to ship the 970s some time this year and most people who wantone will wait a few more months if necessary.
" they HAVE threatened legal action on quite a few rumour sites recently"
Imagine if MS or IBM was threatening web sites because of rumors they published... people would be apoletic, and rightly so.
But when you tell this to Mac people, they say "well, this is good, because expectations will be too high and it will only hurt apple".
People, this is a fundamental free speech.
But I guess the mac-kooks are more like "whatever... apple says its for the best... whatever"
Man... I REALLY love Apple...
But boy are you gonna be disappointed in a weeks time.
-Nex
This sig has been deprecated.
Jobs will do his imitation of Ballmer's monkeyboy dance.
"Apple rumors aren't tasty"
Don't you want to know what your Windows box is going to look like in 2009?
-Nex
This sig has been deprecated.
They promise to... just as soon as Slashdot posters startproofreading their posts!
Same goes for some other technologies being introduced now. Nothing worse than a system design that is obsolete before it hits the shelves.
2) - Dual rpocessors give a 70% speed increase at best. Few programs are optimised for them so the biggest benefit you get is when running multiple programs, so going with a 30% increase would be a tad more realistc.
3) - If you really wanted to be conservative, you should be taking the 1.4, rather than the 1.8.
4) - This gives a 'conservative' estimate of 1.4*2.25*1.3 = 4 Ghz roughly (before anyone objets that this is too high, read my next paragraph).
5) - If you think that even your 'conservative' numbers hold for every situation and that speed is limited purely by the CPU speed, then you can't make any sense of what is important about the 970. The extra speed is nice. It should put us on a par with P4s again. It's new bus architecture and better ability to further scale the speed that are going to make the real difference however. It's when you realise that we can start using faster memory, aren't starving the chips of data and can speed the chip up more than once (or twice if we're really lucky) a year that you'll see why this is important. anyone remember the fiuasco with the 500 MHz G4s? How long were we stuck with them as the top end? That, in my mind, is the turning point where we gave the speed crown to Intel and Motorola gave up.
My point was that the post is about rumours, not facts. Of course it is appropriate to post this information when it is actually formal and public. Until then, we risk spreading misinformation.
Unfortunately you seemed to take my post as being "Boo Apple, Yay Intel", when that is not the case. I do not dispute any of your numbers, you just missed my point.
Now, that leads to a scary possibility. There are no new 970s. Panther's just an incremental update. The new 15" PowerBook replacement is a 15.4" PowerBook with the same-old G4 as always. But Apple, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that a webcam is the "next big thing" and are convinced that Jobs demonstrating a $400 webcam with an in-built 10G HD will suitably wow the entire world.
It might happen. And, given the success of the iPod, which is "only an MP3 player", they may even be right about the "iCam"... ;-) It'll suck to be a Mac user though after that...
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
in the last three years. That is not a direct answer to your 'profits' question, I realize. But I believe it's worth noting, especially in the current/recent economy. See link of the astounding stock return here: Click Here hopefully that link will work for you.
I like Safari because it is quite pretty. Nevertheless, there's no ignoring the fact it currently does less than the Gecko-derived browsers so it hasn't quite done enough to become my default browser yet.
Cheers,
Ian
Apple will close down its operations before June 23rd of this month. This is not a rumor. WWDC is going to be a huge going away party, where Steve Jobs will reveal to everyone that he is the Architect.
Now, you might be asking yourself where I got this information from? Simple. Oracle told me. Larry Ellison led me to her, and we had a conversation on a park bench. She said I must spread the truth.
Cupertino _IS_ the Zion and Microsoft centinels are moving closer to destroying it. We must fight their evil forces with devices powered by embedded linux kernels.
- The One
I think they threatened on AppleInsider's Powermac G5 write-up, too.
That was classic intercourse!
Rumors from Microsoft are a different matter.
So you want Microsoft rumors, well here it goes:
Current mac rumors will resurface as Microsoft rumors slightly altered as not to violate copyright laws in 5 years.
In a past slashdot thread, I predicted that people would be sorely disappointed because Apple would wait to demo new iApps, unveil new prices and cases for new hardware, and keep GUI changes under wraps until they can make a bigger splash to a more consumer audience. Things may be different this year because of their falling out with the MacWorld Expo organizers and so much consumer attention has been focused on WWDC by the Mac fan sites. I won't try to predict what consumer focused changes will appear at wwdc. In the past the biggest announcements were those designed to affect developers in the biggest way, if that holds true, this is what I'd like to hear about:
I'd be happy if we saw official Apple support for Cocoa bridges other developers have created such as Camel Bones (Cocoa/Perl) and PyObjC (Cocoa/Python) as officially supported as the Java/Objective-C bridge.
It might be interesting to see the addition of an optional garbage collector added to Objective-C for newbies to use but engineered in such a way to make it optional for those Objective-C veterans who want to make their work execute more efficiently. Memory management headaches are the biggest difference between the simplicity of Cocoa and other more "popular" languages like Visual Basic (and heck, even Apple's old Hypercard).
Apple went a long way in Jaguar toward re-engineering the bowels of the user interface architecture (HIToolbox) to unify Cocoa and Carbon. I'm sure Panther will see this effort finished, but it'd be great to see a global user interface macro recording feature added now that there's one robust, well-thought and well implemented API underneath.
What would be bigger news to me than any sort of user interface bauble (like the fabled "piles") would be an announcement by Apple that it was completely updating the Mac OS X online help system. They've done a great job of trying to make it easy to get to, but it's very slow and very awkward to use. Any improvements in this area would be very welcome for users and developers.
While new Macs, new iApps, and new user interface trinkets could debut here or at any other Apple event, this is the only time of year Apple really focuses on making geeky, developer relevant announcements. I hope this WWDC doesn't disappoint in that regard.
There seem to be quite a lot of slots "to be announced" at the WWDC, especially for tuesday...
Is this normal? Could these be demonstrations of new products? Ideas, anyone?
2) - Dual rpocessors give a 70% speed increase at best. Few programs are optimised for them so the biggest benefit you get is when running multiple programs, so going with a 30% increase would be a tad more realistc.
I was under the impression that current PowerMacs supportsymmetric multiprocessing of multithreaded applications (even Java threads), which means that in iTunes, one processor can be ripping a CD while the other can be importing a library of MP3s. I wouldn't be surprised by a 70% figure for multithreaded apps.
" Estimated initial clocks are 1.4-1.8. An dual 1.8 (3.6 total) 970 wouls be CONSERVATIVELY equal to a 9 GHz P4. Make sense yet why this is important?"
This is absolutely ridiculous. IBM have already published provisional SPEC scores for the PPC 970 @ 1.8Ghz, if I remember rightly, the scores were about equivalent to the top of the range Opteron. If Apple use 2x 1.8 Ghz 970s in their top machine, it'll be very fast, but hardly bettr than it's x86-64 equivalent.
That was classic intercourse!
Once one-time charges, stock options, private jets, etc are included, they're not profitable.
People, pay attention. The 15" powerbook was held back because Jobs promised to support MacOS 9 until ... this summer. With that constraint off, it can get the new technologies that are not supported in MacOS 9 (bluetooth, airport extreme). That doesn't mean it's getting the 970.
I'd like to see a few issues addressed. Yet oddly enough, they all seem to involve Microsoft:
1) The whole Virtual PC thing. Is Apple going to talk to developers to find ways to continue to run Windows on the Mac should MS decide to kill VPC?
2) Safari/IE. MS is killing IE for the Mac. Many sites currently don't look so hot, or don't even work, on non-IE browsers. How will this be addressed? Safari "giving in" to IE-style rendering?
I do also expect some yummy hardware announcement, I just have no idea what it is. It's beyond speculation, but whatever it is, I'll be happy.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
"Dual rpocessors give a 70% speed increase at best."
Err... nope. Dual processors give a 100% speed increase at BEST.
That was classic intercourse!
I can't believe (well actually I can) he got modded down! It's a very real possibility. The whole "Apple will ship 970 based machines RSN" thing appears to be the product of rumour and speculation. Nothing interesting happening is certainly possible, and it's worth having somebody point that out. But it tells Mac users things they don't want to hear. Too bad.
Apple can quite happily continue for several years taking losses, given the amount of money they have.
You think their shareholders would like that? You think they'd just sit back and say, "well they aren't making any profit, but that's OK cos they have a cash pile to burn through"? I don't think they would.
In fact, they're a profitable company, so that isn't an issue.
Depends how you define profitable. As pointed out elsewhere, their cash pile has declined by over a billion dollars, despite the company being "profitable".
they're going to ship the 970s some time this year
Is that actually confirmed? By Apple? Or is it just people assuming that they must do, it's so obvious? Well I'm not saying they won't, but putting rumour as fact is not good.
Oh but of course like the poor poster who started this thread I have questioned the strength of Apple, which is clearly flamebait. Or overrated of course. Don't forget moderators, if you use overrated, you don't have to get metamoderated! ;-)
Better than that... in some cases, the decrease in context switching (among other things) can give a greater than 100% increase. I've seen such a thing happen before.
Sure, during the crazy housing boom that followed the dot com crash. Look for the housing market to crash shortly, thanks to massive increases in the interest rates, again thanks to the rising national debt.
Isn't the 970 a 64-bit chip? Shouldn't those that are uptight and comparing just raw clock rates compare it to another 64-bit chip like the Itanium? What's the current clock for Itaniums (if you can get em), 1.8 Ghz?
While there were a few rumors of an Apple browser before Safari came out, few people expected it to be based on open source Konqueror.
I'm wondering how big a surprise a behind the scenes port of Open Office to the Mac would be.
In the situation where someone just woke up and didn't have their coffee. It seems that they are saying the new PowerMacs cases will be a matalic color as well as 10.3 using more of the brush metal theam. I can only assume that they want to OS to look more like the case itself and vise versa. Which is basicly what they have been dooing OS up to 10.2 have been on Macs that were normally White in color but now the new ones are becoming more metalic as well as the powerbooks so the New OS will look like the case thus making the brush metal theam fit with the computer.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I've heard from others that this is also true of regular (non-VPN) NFS mounts as well.
Whatever.
At work we always use NFS mounts except for builds (our NFS server is lousy, performance-wise - see it on other unixen, too). Have no problem.
I NFS mount my home directory from my laptop through a VPN (not PPCP - VTUN (see vtun.sf.net)). I drop connection all the time and have no problem.
Maybe you should try to avoid Samba...
At the moment, you're not realistically going to see anything better than around 70%.
Why do you mention the housing boom? How is that related?
Thanks.
Hmm, I've never sene iTunes rip more than one track at a time. I'm pretty sure it always just rips one and uses both processors for it. And I've never seen a benchmark where speed increases are more than 70% for a DP system. Theoretically, it's possible to go higher, but it's a lot of extra programing for relatively little gain and not all tasks can be threaded.
I can confirm problems with non-VPN NFS mounting, but what problems have you had browsing SMB shares? I have a much easier time browsing from OS X than from XP or 2000 boxes, which sometimes see only their own workgroup, sometimes nothing, sometimes everything.
For just navigating thru menus and windows and general GUI stuff my 33MHz 68040-based NeXTStation Turbo Color slab feels about the same speed as my dual G4 800 Mac!
Don't knock the '040!
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
look at your dnetc scores...
That was classic intercourse!
He didn't say 'if nothing interesting happens, they're dead,' but rather 'if there are no 970's, they're dead' which is rubbish because Apple makes more than just professional Macs, they've plenty of cash and there can be interesting things happening aside from the 970.
They wouldn't think it's okay, but Apple survived the Amelio era, haemorrhaging billions, yet still being alive. They're considerably healthier now than they were then.
A define profitable as them saying in their quarterly financial statements that they're making a profit.
The Velocity Engine is in the 970 so it's pretty clear that Apple is going to be using it and we know that if IBM hasn't already started volume production of the 970 but now, they will before the end of the year. If they didn't and Apple didn't have another good chip to switch to, then there would likely be sufficient bad publicity and loss of faith from professionals to cause them serious problems, but the WWDC is not the turning point.
When did I say questioning Apple was flamebait? I think he was being over-dramatic and got modded up for it, but I wouldn't say it was flame bait and neither is your post. I think your point about profitability is valid for instance. Just because some people are zealots doesn't mean all are.
What aobut the dnetc scores? If you have a point to make, say ti rather than asking me to go find your argument for you. Besides which, dnetc isn't hugely applicable to real world computer use.
Yeah, and my 50Mhz 486 feels just as fast as my dual Athlon 2200+. The difference is, the 486 has butt-ugly Windows 3.1 graphics, and the Athlon has (relativly) nice WinXP graphics.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
My kernel compiles go about 100% faster on both proccessors, as does 3D rendering.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Has your OS got piles?
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
I think you're thinking of Sallie's sister Fannie. Sallie does student loans.
Thanks for playing.
Are you aware that Apple is sinking their cash into research and development? Do you think those shiny new Powerbooks just materialize out of thin air? Do you think it is *cheap* to spec, prototype and mass produce two *entirely new* laptop designs (12" + 17" Powerbook)?
Yawn. IHBT, IHL, HAND.
Again?? Damn... That must be like the 27th time.
The only way Apple can justify the long delay in revving the 15-inch Powerbook is something extra-ordinary. This is in light of how many people have wanted a 15", but with the capabilities of the 12" or 17" model, and so have waited. And waited. And waited.
A simple 15.4" with the same abilites as the 12 or 17 just ain't gonna cut it. Apple had better be releasing it with 970's. And if/when they do (if/when it's soon), they will make a killing with their usual crowd.
The rewards are too great and penalties too high not to. Apple needs a PPC 970 Powerbook. Plus, won't this be the industry's first 64-bit portable computer?
The progeny of Power4. The power of 64.
Part of the fun is speculating on what Jobs will pull out of his ass this time. Security is so tight at Apple, any hint of what is to be is big news.
It is a game Mac users and others enjoy. Jobs is into the joke too. Watch his presentation, it is sheer entertainment. We know to expect the unexpected, and would be disappointed if the rumor sites were right.
Even if you are not into Macs, it is worth it to watch his presentation. You will be learning from the master.
photosMy Photostream
Surak is a KNOWN TROLL -- Mods read histroy and mod approatly. thank you
Um, yeah. Read my journal. Also, RTFAQ . Funny mods don't get you karma anymore.
My journal has hot
I'd also point out that he is VP of Hardware Marketing, not Hardware. (i.e. Engineering)
Random is the New Order.
ti?
"Besides which, dnetc isn't hugely applicable to real world computer use."
So what? We're talking BEST CASE here, not common case - the vast majority of apps aren't multi-threaded at all.
That was classic intercourse!
I've been using Macs since '87 and I think that letter to Apple was funny.
--Richard
We're not talking best case, we're talking best real world case. And dentc isn't a real world application.
If you're compiling a kernel, am I to assume you're not doing it under MacOS X? Becasue unless you are, the comment isn't hugely relevant.
The only way Apple can justify the long delay in revving the 15-inch Powerbook is something extra-ordinary.
Extraordinary like "we're still getting rid of inventory on the TiBook?"
A simple 15.4" with the same abilites as the 12 or 17 just ain't gonna cut it.
Of course it will. It will sell like hotcakes. The 12" is too small (for some applications) and the 17" is too big. All that's needed is a "medium" option to go with the small and the XL.
Apple had better be releasing it with 970's.
Or what? Slashdotters will be on the Internet within moments registering their disgust throughout the world?
No, I'm not (I'm talking Linux on dual Athlons). However, the same principals apply - two processors can compile two files simultaneously, giving a near-100% speed increase. Unless the PPC architecture is really fucked up or the OSX scheduler really sucks, I'd think it'd be pretty similar there.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
It's a very real possibility.
Relax. It's not. The people who buy Macs are generally not the same people who follow the rumor mill.
You think their shareholders would like that?
It's kind of a moot point, because something like the last 18 of 20 quarters have been profitable for Apple. (Too lazy to look up the numbers now; my 10-K reports are filed in the basement.)
Depends how you define profitable. As pointed out elsewhere, their cash pile has declined by over a billion dollars, despite the company being "profitable".
Profitable means they're making more money than they're spending. (You do know the meaning of the word, right?) Just sitting on cash isn't a good thing for a company to do, and getting rid of excess cash isn't necessarily a bad thing for a company to do. All that counts at the end of the quarter is the balance sheet. Did we make more than we spent? Yes? The let's have a party.
Oh but of course like the poor poster who started this thread I have questioned the strength of Apple, which is clearly flamebait. Or overrated of course.
Actually, your post is overrated, simply because you got so many things so terribly wrong.
I know what you mean---my 25MHz '040 NeXT Cube is still my main machine for doing TeX and PostScript work.
The really painful thing is the comments from Mac developers when they first tried out OpenStep 4.2 on decent white boxes in preparation for what was then called Rhapsody...
``windows vanish (instantly) (after clicking the close box)''
``feels rock solid''
``man I hope the real thing performs this snappily''
There was recently a post to comp.sys.next.advocacy from a guy who got OpenStep running on a something.something GHz box w/ 1GB or DDR or somesuch RAM.... may have to think 'bout setting up something like that myself, thoough I'd really miss the cool old-style NeXT keyboard....
William
i
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
"...The Velocity Engine is in the 970 so it's pretty clear that Apple is going to be using it..."
What does this prove? IBM has stated that they are going to use the 970 in their own Linux systems, and AltiVec support for linux exists and has been implemented.
In addition, Steve Jobs apparently is satisfied with the G4 roadmap.
We'll know for sure in a week. Well, maybe the night before if we're lucky.
(tig)
"We do not inherit the land from our ancestors"
"We borrow it from our children"
Ignorance and prejudice and fear
Walk hand in hand
Yes, and the Earth being destroyed tomorrow to make way for a hyperspace bypass is also possible. But look at the evidence: WWDC was moved back a month for no adequately explained reason, the G4's are apparently in short supply, Apple is hyping WWDC and showing the keynote in their stores, and Steve Jobs made unusally pointed comments about Motorola a few months ago. None of this is conclusive, but it implies a very strong probability that we'll see the 970 a week from today.
As pointed out elsewhere, their cash pile has declined by over a billion dollars, despite the company being "profitable".
Um, because they've been buying lots of companies?
Is that actually confirmed? By Apple?
Of course not. But IBM has said they'll be shipping their own 970 systems this year. Can you construct a plausible scenario where Apple doesn't? It may be a rumor, but it's a rumor backed by overwhelming circumstantial evidence.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
i tinks isa needs mare sawltsz. Yew jes siddown and mes fixen to biscuitize y'all merhp, gerhukiey.
sneep! sneep!
Yeah and Linux in 2014
-- I don't buy it, I grow it.
If for some reason Apple doesn't have a 970 machine ready or to be announced at WWDC, all hell is gonna break loose. The underground hype is ridiculous at this point. Every 4th day I see a new story posted somewhere about how Apple must be using the 970 chip. It's all vaporware until they show us a box. People are so paranoid to purchase new machines from Apple for fear of being left out in the cold. Not that Apple actively discourages this though, but at this stage in the game, what can they possibly do to stop the 970 expectation short of actually producing a box?
Steve Balmers hot dance video Everytime I see that I think "wow that guy is a real psycho"
GIVE IT UP FOR MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I Love This Compayeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
When he prances (ok maybe that's too delicate a word) across the stage he looks like a (really fat) upset beaver...and who chose the music.
At least if Jobs does it he'll have some better music (and won't make himslf look like a fat upset beaver).
My employer, Sallie Mae, tripled its stock price in the last three years.
Apple quadrupled theirs in the last five years. (Two, count 'em, two stock splits. Woo.)
Hmm, I've never sene iTunes rip more than one track at a time.
;-)
I've done it. The MP3 encoder is vectorized and threaded, so it pegs both CPU's and encodes at about 24X. The AAC encoder is vectorized but not threaded, so it only encodes at about 12X, but you can do two of them at once at that speed.
And I've never seen a benchmark where speed increases are more than 70% for a DP system.
Now you have. Although I wouldn't call MP3 encoding a benchmark exactly.
Also, look at things like the Maya renderer. It's twice as fast on 2 as it is on 1.
But the important part about have a two-processor machine is not that it's twice as fast. It's that it's more interactive. And you can't benchmark that. You also can't put a price on it.
I'll just post this again, then:-
"Dual rpocessors give a 70% speed increase at best."
Err... nope. Dual processors give a 100% speed increase at BEST.
That was classic intercourse!
(fwiw) this is one thing i could live without.
yes, i know why it is there, have done 64-bit work for dec & sgi, and, perhaps, understand intel's 64-bit overhead backward problems.
(imo) _if_ anything _move_ forward
You know, that quote from Romans is pretty awesome. I was reading over Romans 8 a couple of nights ago and that passage struck me as being very reassuring. I wrote it down, it's a good one that I'm going to commit to memory!
That's only a theoretical maximum. The real world maximum we're seeing at the moment is around 70%.
Cool, didn't know about that. Have to find a DP machine and try it out now :^)
I've heard conflicting reports about that, most of them saying it's less than 100%.
Very true. Leaving an encoder/renderer/compiler running full blast on one CPU and still being to get a responsive system out of the other is great.
Just because we're interested in technology doesn't mean we all gather with the AV alum dweebs for Saturday night screenings of crappy sci-fi flicks.
Shame on Google.
Your Redhat link was a press release saying that they were going to start work on it last year. You haven't provided proof that it actualy has been implemented or that anyone is using it IBM has been quite happy without it so far, the Power4 didn't have it and theres no reaosn to suppose that they would have tacked it on (apparently as an after-thought) unless it was at the request of someone who already has a use for it - Apple.
No, he was satisfied with it last year. That doesn't mean he still is.
massive...not.
:)
You must not be able to count beyond 3, and anything after that is a Carl Sagan number
Rehased hash is still hash...where's the beef?
The G4's bus architecture limits it to about a 70% speed increase.
The G4's biggest bottleneck is not clockspeed, but the slow bus, which prevents it from taking advantage of newer, faster memeory architectures. one big win of the PPC970 is that Apple will be moving from the slowest CPU bus (167MHz SDR) of the major PC vendors, to the fastest (450MHz DDR, 900MHz Effective), for their top end CPU's. It's also going to force Apple to ship dual-channel capable memory for the first time since the PowerMac 9600 was retired(7/8/9500, 8/9600 and 7300 PowerMac's used interleaved memory access if the DIMM's were installed in Matched pairs, which was simply a more flexible version of current dual-channel implementations), since they'll need dual DDR400 channels to even hope to feed a 1.8GHz PPC970.
"You've got an invalid haircut" -Warren Zevon - Life'll Kill Ya
It seems great things are in store for Objective-C.
Apple is working on "generational garbage collection, dynamic compilation and recompilation, lightweight processor specific synchronization, and zero cost language bridging."
Take a look at www.apple.com/jobs. Search under software engineering positions. They want to add an "Advanced Runtime Engineer" to the team. The quote above is straight from the job description.
Oh no knocking intended :). They're excellent machines, and I know at least 2 graphic houses that still use 68040 based macs for scan cleaning. If it works and keeps working well, keep using it.
Loss? Apple has been posting underwhelming but definite profits (almost) without fail for every quarter in the last three years. Name five other companies that have done that.
Apple is running their operations at a loss. The only reason the final line is still positive is that there is a lot of money generating interest in their bank account, but that can only be a temporary measure.
(The reason why it must be temporary is that few investers think it is a good idea to risk their money at a return lower than normal bank interest).
I've always wondered why 'or not' is even included *once* in a 'whether' hypothetical. What's wrong with 'seems like the biggest uncertainty is whether 970 PowerMacs will ship.' Says it all. If you want to emphasize the uncertainty, you could say 'will even ship' or 'will ship at all.' The 'or not' is always implied in such a statement.
> Sure, during the crazy housing boom that
/.
> followed the dot com crash. Look for the
> housing market to crash shortly, thanks to
> massive increases in the interest rates, again
> thanks to the rising national debt.
Let's see...how exactly is the national debt causing interest rates to rise? Care to explain in terms other than econ 1 "crowding out" effect?
Something tells me you're not a Republican. Imagine that on
Go stroke yourself to a picture of sausage-legged Hillary or something.
dnetc exists in the real world. At least it does in mine. It's doing real world work (OGR, breaking RC-xx encryption through brute force). Now, it may not be doing typical user work (ie, word processing, running PS filters, page layout, playing Q3A, etc.), but we're talking best real world--and it gives a 100% increase.
ZING!
Apple's adjust for split price was about $13 5 years ago, and is $17 today. That is not quadrupling (which means FOUR TIMES by the way...in case you didn't know that)
I was talking about the last THREE years, for one thing. And our stock, which will triple-split shortly (And than means absolutely NOTHING except to idiots), has tripled in those three years. Up another couple of bucks today.
Here:
Apple - went from 50-60-ish, to 17 today
SLM - from 38-ish to $127 today.
over the last three years.
Now, what was your point, again? I'm confused how you can compare the two stock's performance. Or, is a Monday morning thing? I'll understand.
Okay, maybe I should have said 'best case for real world use that is applicable to a remotely significant percentage of users then', but I had assumed people would realise that was what I meant.
That being said, Time Bandit is a great game.
My wife is with you 100% on that, I'm afraid...
That being said, Time Bandit is a great game.
Indeed it is. One of the very best. Good memories of it back on my old Atari 520ST.
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
"that is applicable to a remotely significant percentage of users then"
Well, if that's your criteria then 70% is a massive overestimation. ALMOST ALL applications that one uses day to day on a dp Mac are single threaded, any performance benefits come in the main from load balancing, and we all know how under utilised a single CPU is most of the time.
That was classic intercourse!
Interestingly, what *wasn't* shipping the same day were two versions of the XServe (not the low-end model or the cluster unit, but the other two). Those were listed as 3-5 days. I haven't done this drill recently, so I don't know how unusual this is for the XServe.
In any case, it might be worthwhile "pinging" the Apple Store this week for the appearance of PowerMac shortages. right now, I don 't see any.
Babar
Why you gotta lie to make friends? :)
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Umm no they haven't published anything.
Encoding (vidoe and audio), Photoshop and 3-D rendering are significant tasks that utilise multiple processors and I hace seen benchmarks where they can get to around 70%.
On the subject of what rumors have been pulled by Apple legal, squiggleslash writes:
Actually, stories about G5 Macs have also been pulled from www.macbidouille.com, as has www.macrumors.com and www.osnews.com and tech-report.com. All of these were about 64-bit offerings being shown at WWDC.
Now, whether Apple Legal had these pulled because they were accurate, or merely scurilous but potentially hurting hardware sales, is another question.
Babar
in three years, or five years. I failed to see that 10 year timeline mentioned anywhere.
l &a =v&p=s&t=my&l=off&z=m&q=l
But, just for your info, I have gone to yahoo to look up the stock. Picked MAX timeline and laid the two stocks on the chart.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SLM&d=c&k=c1&c=aap
Again, how has AAPL outperformed SLM? (based on that chart)
Or, pick another time frame up until TODAY and show me what you mean.
I TAUGHT Finance and still wonder what figures you're looking at here.
Thanks!
Are you comparing NEXTSTEP to Win 3.1 and then moving on to compare Mac OS X to Windows XP?? Granted - the comparisons are very similar in nature, but pays insult to both NeXT and Apple.
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
you've SEEN BENCHMARKS?
I take it that you don't actually use a Mac professionally, then...
God save us from know-nothing wannabes.
That was classic intercourse!
In the interests of Slashdot's non francophile readers and despite the fact that I might screw up some of this translation, here is what that item says:
Grek sends us evidence (lit. testimony) that not only confirms rumors of the release of PPC 970 machines, but but also this time for servers.
I would remind you that the WWDC last year was the the time when Steve announced the first generation of the XServe in addition to Jaguar. This year, Panther will be there, but it remains to be seen if there will aslo be a speedboat for the XServe at the WWDC. [sorry, I'm not sure how to translate "une vedette de la WWDC]
Now, I do not find the logic here completely compelling; this could be just a price drop, or an announcement about software improvements or what have you, but WWDC wouldn't be a silly place to announce changes in the server line by any means.
Babar
also Apple WILL be at MWNYC this year, just no Steve Jobs keynote.... today IDG announced
Not the same as Steve Jobs i guess, but it sounds like he will probably be repeating a lot of what happens next week.... but tuned down to consumer-speak. The NYC conference is being geared more towards consumers and creative people. Kind of makes sense since it's just a month after WWDC. Since theya re targetting the creative Mac users, it seems like all the more reason to keep the East Coast Expo in NYC instead of the northmost edge of the megalopolis.
The FSB is only limiting for certain usage scenarios and in many cases the G4's backside cache can cover FSB issues.
Anyway FSB would only affect SMP if the processes you are running are stressing the FSB, which compilation wouldn't really do (it is disk bound mostly).
I would love to see a 970 with a large backside cache... but it would be overkill given its FSB support.
I'm comparing the relative appearence and performance of Win3.1 and WinXP to the relative appearence and performance of NeXTStep and OSX.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Kremlinologists need something to do since the fall of the USSR. So chill out for a while and see who's right about what.
It's funny because it could be true: The rumor of piles
___ www.lingo24.com Language and translation solutions - online
Yes, I've seen benchmarks of times taken to render scenes, encode songs, etc. MacWorld labs for instance do them every once in a while. You're happy to take dnetc stats, but not real world benchmarks? In fact, given that you were asking me to look at dnetc stats, why are you so upset that I've looked at other benchmarks?
I take it that you don't actually use a Mac professionally, then...
Did I ever claim to? If you look at my bio, you'll see I'm a physics student, not a graphics designer/moive-maker/professional coder/whatever. I have an iBook/500. If not for the fact that I have to fly btween home and university every couple of months, I'd probably have an iMac, or maybe a low end PowerMac since I've already got a monitor. I certainly can't afford a high-end system with the kind of tools that would use dual processors (iTunes aside). However, I don't need to be one as I can read which allows me to gether information from other people in magazines, on web sites, etc.
God save us from know-nothing wannabes.
What is it you think I want to be? Or are you simply resorting to pointless insults? I mean, really, this isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be.
"Alan Patridge" is a troll. You really don't need to go to great lengths to defend yourself against him.
You have exactly 314 seconds to come up with a less retarded plot.
Usually at WWDC the kinds of announcements that get made are software. If new hardware is announced it's from a software implications viewpoint. They may demo cool new boxes, but they aren't generally announcing ship dates or showing off new plastic cases.
The exception is when they have nothing in the way of new software or architecture announcements. (The Powerbook G3-500 release is the only example I can remember of a major product announcement at WWDC; and the other announcements at that WWDC were highly underwhelming.)
The big news is Panther. Apple hasn't told most of us what will be in Panther so the idea that they will muddy the waters by fuelling a bunch of consumer-related hysteria when what they really want is to get people excited about a new OS release seems to me to be far-fetched.
I'd be looking for a demo of the PPC970 (or an unnamed chip) but not a product release.
Then again, WWDC has become more and more like a pure marketing exercise as the years have gone by and the leaks have been plugged. The days when you could stand around with system engineers being told about the year after next's OS changes and the current OS's most egregious unfixable bugs seem gone (or maybe they just won't talk to me any more).
M.A.C. means Media Access Control. So, to have your computer on an Ethernet, you need a MAC. Are you saying that every person who has ethernet sucks balls?
You are an ignorant little smegma pile. Mac isn't an acronym, it's short for Macintosh.
a troll? moi? surely you should be able to do better than that
something like this, you mean?
troll
As used on the Internet:
1) As a verb, the practice of trying to lure other Internet users into sending responses to carefully-designed incorrect statements or similar "bait."
troll
v.,n.  1.Â[From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT. 2. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that the have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll."
Use this whenever you have a troll in a discussion group!
You swine. You vulgar little maggot. Don't you know that you are pathetic? You worthless bag of filth. As we say in Texas, I'll bet you couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you.
You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you. You are a bloody nardless newbie twit protohominid chromosomally aberrant caricature of a coprophagic cloacal parasitic pond scum and I wish you would go away.
You're a putrescence mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.
You are a bleating fool, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done.
I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell?
If you aren't an idiot, you made a world-class effort at simulating one. Try to edit your writing of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly.
You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs.
You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an ignoramus. Mon
That was classic intercourse!
I wouldn't worry about these TROLL ALERTERS too much. It's rather like screaming "she's a witch!" when confronted with an argument you cannot counter or a personality you cannot dominate.
Slashdot needs TROLL ALERTERS like it needs Father Randy Pudge.
Worst of all, it's an attempt to stifle the art of provocative argument, which is one of the most valuable skills in debating.
That was classic intercourse!
"and the Athlon has (relativly) nice WinXP graphics."
Aahh! And you almost had me going!
That was classic intercourse!
As a MacOS X user and very frequent web browser, I can assure you that there are plenty of sites that will look awful or simply not even work in any other browser (Camino & Safari) than IE for MacOS X.
I don't see it as too much of a problem though, since IE will keep existing in its present form even when M$ stops developing new versions. It would be nice to be able to use only one browser, but I can live with this.
2) - Dual rpocessors give a 70% speed increase at best. Few programs are optimised for them so the biggest benefit you get is when running multiple programs, so going with a 30% increase would be a tad more realistc.
Maybe you meant to say that dual processors process 70% more information per quanta. Dual processors offer a tremendus increase in apparent speed, because the user waits less for processor time.
Apple has been making more and more of the OS multithreaded, and has been using the vector unit in many new and novel ways. Given the fact that the standard timeslice on the Mac is 1ms, compared with 10ms for the Intel architecture, you already have a machine that feels faster.
Well, System 7.1 on my Quadra 950 (33Mhz MC68040, 64M RAM, 7G HDD) FEELS faster than anything on PPC.
Everything is quite instant.
For most tasks, the problem isn't the memory, it's I/O blocking. It takes some sweet hard drive setup to saturate even the 167mHz bus of the G4.
Well, WinXP graphic effects (after you turn off the Luna shit) are undeniably nicer than 3.1's.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Considering the upcoming WWDC, would any of you buy an iMAC G4 today...7 days before the conference? This question really isn't as stupid as it may sound. Here are some things to consider...If the G5 is announced, it probably won't be placed in the iMac for some time...On the other hand, prices might drop on the existing iMac G4 if the announcements do affect the iMac in some way. If they do, does Apple offer a price guarantee similar to Dell? The point is...I want to buy an iMac today, but don't want to get burned in a week. As you can see from what I stated above, one could argue that I should buy today and worry about next week when it gets here...OR...one could argue that patience is a virtue.
I believe in 1998, Apple announced the iMac at WWDC. Also, I'm pretty sure that the "Lombard" PowerBooks were introduced at WWDC in 1999. I remember that they had a giveaway every hour and the first guy to win was from Microsoft. Man, you've never heard so many boos...
2000, 2001, and 2002 the focus for developers was Mac OS X--Get Your Apps Moved! In 2002, Apple "buried" Mac OS 9.
So I could easily see the 15" PowerBook being released. Nothing fancy, though. I expect it to be the same as the 17" and 12" PowerBooks (ie, no PowerPC 970). I could also see PowerPC 970 machines being announced and demonstrated with Panther. Their availability remains a question.
making it mHz to mHz slower
Compare: "My foo is better is better than your foo using arbitrary undefined standards."
Loss? Apple has been posting underwhelming but definite profits (almost) without fail for every quarter in the last three years. Name five other companies that have done that.
One thing to keep in mind is that while they've technically posted some very slim profits over the last few years, they were a little iffy. There's a reason why Apple's P/E and market cap is so low- wall street basically has said that Apple's hardware line is pretty much of no value right now.
Why? Because in many, many quarters they'd have posted a loss without the interest made from the $5billion in the bank. When interest rates dropped dramatically, Apple earned less interest on that money, and hence started bleeding.
The reason you saw the stock surge quickly from $14ish to $17ish was the music store, and the fact that it COULD be a decent source of revenue for Apple if things shake out well... but they have $5 billion in the bank, and their market cap is ~$5billion... their hardware just isn't doing that well, so Wall Street is essentially giving value only to the cash Apple has.
When Inmos was selling transputers, they published some results (in Byte Magazine I think) that had one of their programs running on 4 processors at 4.4x the speed of it running on 1 processor. This trend continued up till 7 processors (where it dropped below an extra 1x per processor added). It does really depend on the type of calculation you are doing.
Also, letting the OS have time on a different processor than my app is running is a good thing.
I was going to purchase a 15' powerbook, but now I'm thinking that I'll hold off for MacWorld. The problem is that I need a powerbook before June 30th. What do you think I should do? If the powerbook upgrade is released, what are the real odds that it will be available quickly?
i love my next cube, but i saw the os running on a pentium 166 back in the day and it was screaming fast even back then. oh, and i liked the color. the cube i've got right now is a 25 w/ b&w studio monitor, so . . . .
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
can anyone reccomend a good application for my poor box, that will work, and be secure on the internet, today so it may find a home again??? or at least a decent free software archive for the thing that's still running????
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
I thought was much, but decided to give hi the benefit of the doubt. The discussion is well off the front page now so he'll probably shut up now.
Or semi-decent RAM, given the RAM is running 266DDR or 333DDR, twice the speed of the CPU interface.
"You've got an invalid haircut" -Warren Zevon - Life'll Kill Ya
What are you talking about? Macs were the first machines to push FireWire hard. True, Macs have recently lagged in the speed of their internal ATA interface--but at least with FireWire you've got the fastest external drive interface (in practice it outpaces USB 2.0) and now there's FW800 integrated. And how about integrating not just a slot for a wireless ethernet card but having the cases wired with antennas? And Bluetooth - how many PC's have that built in now as well??
Sounds to me like Apple is leading the way in many areas of the motherboard featureset, as they always have. (How many PC's in the 80's and early 90's came standard with SCSI on-board??) And it seems that the areas where there is a current lack of performance vs. PC (internal HD bus, system bus speed) are about to get taken care of--bigtime. Some rumors are indicating that Serial ATA _will_ be part of these new 970-based Macs, as well and have you seen the bus speeds that are expected for these Macs???
I can't find an area that would foster PC envy in any owner of one of these forthcoming 970 Macs. Not a one.
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
Don't you want to know what your Windows box is going to look like in 2009?
Need you ask? Current Mac products *are* Windows rumors!
Is it okay to cry "Movie!" in a crowded firehouse? --Steve Martin
Oh well. :-p
120 character sigs suck. Make it 250.
You can get a pretty nice NeXT ADB keyboard and an ADB->USB adaptor and use the keyboard on your mac. I did that for awhile, then convierted to a Belkin USB keyboard that I cut and re-routed traces so that CapsLock->Control.
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