High End Silent Cooling For Graphics Cards

What would excite me is a lower price by amichalo · 2003-07-27 06:32 · Score: 5, Interesting

I must be the only one out there but instead of the fancy packaging, colored circuit bords, flashing lights, included CD's filled with shareware games, and ... as of this article ... cooling devices fit for the Red October, I would like a graphics card that ...

IS IN EXPENSIVE!

Imagine that graphics card marketing departments. Keep your fluff and give me a lower cost card!

Of other note, a card shardard for laptops so I could upgrade my PowerBook G4 would be huge for me, expecially as laptops become the PC of choice for the younger, more mobile 20 somethings.

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Re:What would excite me is a lower price by sshannon · 2003-07-27 06:37 · Score: 2, Informative

Last month when I was building my new computer I was able to get a GeForce 4 (4xAGP, 64MB DDR) for $20 after rebate from Tiger Direct. Granted, it's not the greatest card in the world, and I've never been much of a gamer, but it should be enough for all but the most hardcore of gamers.
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-27 06:45 · Score: 1, Informative

For $20 I am assuming it was a GF4-MX and not a GF4-TI. THe MX is nothing more than a faster clocked GF-2 and only has DX-7 support.
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-27 06:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

Prices are never going to get cheaper. Lowest performing card(for gaming crowd) will be <$75(Radeon9200, GF4-MX) Entry-level cards will always be $75-125(Radeon9500, GF4-Ti4200). Highest end will always be $300-400(Radeon9800, GF-FX). (Will increase due to inflation obviously).

Why? The chipset designers(ati/nV) try to create one entry for each segment without too much overlap WRT pricing and performace between segments. No one is going to produce cards with older technology when they can use that manufacturing capacity to build other, newer, more profitable cards. Once production has ramped up it never gets cheaper to produce the cards. It does not cost any more to produce a top end card today than it would be to build a Voodoo3.
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by Kaboom13 · 2003-07-27 07:03 · Score: 1

They make those, only cost a couple dollars. Don't do 3d to well, but you get what you pay for. This is a product designed to fill a niche, people who want a good card thats quiet and are willing to pay for it. If you aren't willing to pay for it, go buy a cheaper, noisy card, or a really cheap completely silent card. If there isnt a suffecient market for this the product will fail. And I dont know what you complaining about cost anyway. I bought my first voodoo 2 for over $200. I bought a Geforce 4 ti for around a hundred. Seems like they are listening after all.
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by badasscat · 2003-07-27 07:25 · Score: 2, Informative

Last month when I was building my new computer I was able to get a GeForce 4 (4xAGP, 64MB DDR) for $20 after rebate from Tiger Direct. Granted, it's not the greatest card in the world, and I've never been much of a gamer, but it should be enough for all but the most hardcore of gamers.

Why was this reply modded down to 0:Troll? The parent asked for cheap graphics cards; this guy explained where to get one. A question was asked and answered. How is that a troll?

I also bought a GeForce 4 MX from Newegg.com for my HTPC for $44 just about a week ago. No, this is not going to give you Radeon 9800 performance, but you get what you pay for. The nice thing about the graphics card market is that there's something out there for everybody right now. No, the cheap cards don't get the headlines but that's to be expected. The good news is there are highly capable graphics cards out there that will be perfectly satisfying to almost anyone all up and down the line at every price point. You can literally buy an older, slower graphics card for $20-$30 that will give you solid 2D performance and even let you play most 3D games at lower resolutions happily. Or, if you've got the cash, you can shell out for one of the hot new Radeons or GeForce FX's.

What I usually do is wait until I can double my current performance for around $100. In my main PC I have a GeForce 4 Ti4200, which cost me $108 about a year ago (upgrading from a GeForce 2, which is still a perfectly good card and now lives in a PC I built for my mother). This was one of the fastest cards available at the time and it's still among the fastest today. No complaints here, and I think it'll be a while until I upgrade again - probably not until games really start requiring DirectX 9 capability to work.
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by TheNetAvenger · 2003-07-27 12:51 · Score: 2, Informative

Of other note, a card shardard for laptops so I could upgrade my PowerBook G4 would be huge for me, expecially as laptops become the PC of choice for the younger, more mobile 20 somethings

ATI with the new ATI Mobility GPUs are pushing a standard interface for being upgradeable.

It is up to the manufacturers to take advantage of using this interface though, so with Apple, cross your fingers.

In the PC world, there are a couple of manufacturers that are already supporting the ATI GPU with the upgradeable interface, so that you will be able to drop in the next faster ATI Graphics Processor when it comes out and not have your laptop locked into the GPU it shipped with.

I only hope NVidia is working on a similar design or even a compatible design so that a laptop user could switch GPU manufacturers.

PS - Yes I know that within product lines, you can already rip out most Laptop GPU boards and replace them with the next minimal upgraded versions(i.e. Pull Geforce4 440Go 32mb - Replace with Geforce4 460Go 64mb); however, the ATI interface specification is for moving all the way to an entire new GPU architecture as the technology advances over a few years.
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by shepd · 2003-07-27 16:55 · Score: 1

>No one is going to produce cards with older technology when they can use that manufacturing capacity to build other, newer, more profitable cards.

Too bad nobody told that to Trident!

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by rossifer · 2003-07-27 18:10 · Score: 1

All you have to do to get an inexpensive card is buy a few steps behind the state of the art. Look at last years "best" offerings and see if you can't realistically deal with 30-50% less performance than the bleeding edge for 10-30% of the price.

Now if you want the bleeding edge to be cheap, well, you're in the wrong market. Modern PC graphics performance is largely driven by gaming enthusiasts with substantial disposable income. As in people who are quite willing to spend $500 on a video card every year (or even more often) so that at the LAN parties, they can brag for five minutes straight about what's inside the box. If you want to have the same stuff as that guy, you're going to have to be prepared to spend the same amount of money he is.

Seriously, two or three notches back from the top of the line is a *lot* less expensive and not that much worse for a casual gamer, even for the latest crop of games. Even in this review, the 9800 was $420 and the 9600 was $200. If you look around, it's not too hard to find a decent older ATI or NVidia video card under $100.

Regards,
Ross
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by evilviper · 2003-07-27 23:20 · Score: 1

Keep your fluff and give me a lower cost card!

There are plenty of very low-cost cards... What is your problem?

Just quickly browsing pricewatch, I find:
1MB PCI generic card for $4
8MB AGP S3 Savage card for $11
Same as above with TV-out for $12
4MB AGP SIS card for $13
4MB PCI Matrox card for $5
16MB PCI NVidia TNT2 for $20

So why do you say videocards are too expensive? You want the top of the line but expect to get it for $20?

--
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Re:What would excite me is a lower price by Thavius · 2003-07-28 01:32 · Score: 1

The most likely reason the high-end cards cost so much are due to development costs. Research and Development cost quite a bit of money, and only sales can offset these costs. Once the manufacturing of these cards gets up to speed, they're not expensive to manufacture, but the costs are in development. Same with software, the disc isn't $50, it's the cost of development.

Sacrificing a PCI slot?? by whiteranger99x · 2003-07-27 06:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

Now i noticed that the 9800 Pro is so big, considering the size of the heat sink to disperse the heat generated, users would have to give up the adjacent PCI slot.

I always thought in some computers the AGP slot and the 1st PCI slot had a shared IRQ, so this wouldn't be an issue...unless im mistaken, of course :P

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Re:Sacrificing a PCI slot?? by CaptnMArk · 2003-07-27 06:50 · Score: 2, Informative

Many new motherboards have 5 pci slots with the same layout that the 6 pci version would have and the first slot is removed. Just for this kind of graphics cards.

It's definately a must have for my mobo in the future.
Re:Sacrificing a PCI slot?? by whiteranger99x · 2003-07-27 07:04 · Score: 1

Ah i see, the way video cards are being pumped up for performance, i can imagine such a setup being a must have for motherboards

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Re:Sacrificing a PCI slot?? by Martin+Blank · 2003-07-27 08:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

Considering that most sound card companies and virtually every NIC company I've researched has advised not putting their cards in the first PCI slot, it kind of becomes moot anyway. Moving those off to other slots leaves modems and what are essentially niche devices -- SCSI, tuner, USB/FireWire, and other add-in cards.

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You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
Re:Sacrificing a PCI slot?? by irc.goatse.cx+troll · 2003-07-27 10:12 · Score: 2, Interesting

Also, NVidia's first generation FX cards (I'm not sure about the ones out now, I'm happy with my gf2mx400 64mb pci) had a fan under it that was large enough to take up the top pci slot.

--
Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
Re:Sacrificing a PCI slot?? by PurpleFloyd · 2003-07-27 14:52 · Score: 1

It hasn't been a good idea to put things in the first PCI slot for a long time now, even without the shared IRQ worries. Fans need a decent amount of air around them in order to move the necessary air; if you've got a PCI card jammed up against the GPU fan, even one that doesn't generate much heat, you are almost guaranteed to get higher temps.
To echo other posters, though, who needs to use all the other PCI slots on their board? I have one for my SCSI RAID setup, one for my NIC, and that's it (I'm running an ASUS Nforce2 board; if I didn't care about Linux compatability, I wouldn't even need the NIC). The SCSI RAID is something most people don't have, and, like I said, the NIC is only there for Linux. The board's got five PCI slots. What's the problem with a GPU cooler taking up one, two or even three? Sure, I lose some expandability, but nobody's using it for anything, as far as I can tell.

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That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
Re:Sacrificing a PCI slot?? by shepd · 2003-07-27 17:00 · Score: 1

Although nvidia does suck for releasing drivers under the licenses they do use (apart from their lone GPLed audio driver), their NForce2 chipset has a driver package for sound, network, and GART. Works well with slackware.

Just FYI. ;-)

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC

silent fans but noisy games.... by 56ker · 2003-07-27 06:32 · Score: 1

With games being so noisy these days eg Command and Conquer, Quake etc - the noise of a fan on the graphics card hardly makes a difference! It'd be less fun playing them in silence....

--

Video Game cheats, hints a

Re:silent fans but noisy games.... by tomstdenis · 2003-07-27 06:36 · Score: 1

The fact that some people do more with their computers than play video games.... Some people read /. :-)

Tom

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Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Re:silent fans but noisy games.... by rokzy · 2003-07-27 06:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

the problem with noisy graphics cards isn't the noise they make during noisy games, it's the noise they make the other 99.8% of the time
Re:silent fans but noisy games.... by BinaryC · 2003-07-27 07:05 · Score: 1

You only play games 0.2% of your time? You realize that's only like 20 minutes a week right?

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Ne Quid Nimis - All things in moderation
Re:silent fans but noisy games.... by compwiz3688 · 2003-07-27 07:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

Then get one of those ASUS FX cards that supports the SmartDoctor 2 software.

I was surprised that when I was testing an ASUS V9520 Video Suite at work, the fan didn't spin until I started playing ga... err running benchmarks. I thought I broke the fan :).

This is news? by worst_name_ever · 2003-07-27 06:33 · Score: 4, Funny

I could already have told you that pipe technology greatly enhances enjoyment of the pretty colors and swirly lights so common in today's high-end games.

--

In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.

Re:This is news? by PetWolverine · 2003-07-27 08:11 · Score: 1

I think you're on the wrong site. Try here.

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I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.

I glad this is happening.. by nother_nix_hacker · 2003-07-27 06:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

...because my graphics card is louder than my sound card at the moment! :)

Re:I glad this is happening.. by djcapelis · 2003-07-27 06:44 · Score: 1

PREDICTION: A forthcoming patch for linux to modulate the fan on your video card to produce sound. Now you just need your video/sound combo card for a new multimedia experience! ATI and NVida will then list the decible output as a line item.

--
I touch computers in naughty places

Not as great as you might think by Dr.+Spork · 2003-07-27 06:37 · Score: 3, Interesting

The problem is that the heatsink is just dumping heat into the cavity of your case, and you will need some serious (and loud) fans to remove it from there. I hate to say it, but only Apple is in a position to make PCs that have wholistic quitet cooling systems installed.

I think that NVidia were actually on the right track by blowing out the GPU heat into the outside air rather than into the case. Of course, their fan was a monster, but I imagine that this could be done better with a cooler GPU like ATI's.

Re:Not as great as you might think by rokzy · 2003-07-27 06:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

nvidia was on the wrong track. they HAD to blow the air out of the case because it was so damn hot it would overheat (but that was just due to ridiculous overclocking to compete with ATI). and blowing air will always be noisy, especially if blowing it through small holes.

the key imo is watercooling for high-end cards, and generating less heat for the mid/low-end cards. AFAIK some .13 micron ATI cards only need passive heatsinks.
Re:Not as great as you might think by antiMStroll · 2003-07-27 07:02 · Score: 1

The Radeon ships with a heatsink/fan combo which generates just as much case heat, heat being a function of the work the video card does and nothing else. Why would this replacement cooler require additional case fans? Answer: it only does if you're hyping Apple.
Re:Not as great as you might think by E1v!$ · 2003-07-27 08:23 · Score: 1

The problem is that the heatsink is just dumping heat into the cavity of your case

Umm, yea, and that's what most cards DO!

Nvidia may have been on the right track, but then their card produces MASSIVE quantities of heat. ATI doesn't get that hot (comparitivly speaking)
Re:Not as great as you might think by BWJones · 2003-07-27 09:57 · Score: 1

Of course, their fan was a monster, but I imagine that this could be done better with a cooler GPU like ATI's.

Or better case design. Take for example Apple's new G5. Apple made sure that the case has multiple zones with independent temperature controlled fans than can spin at lower RPM's depending upon the heat load. Of course this means you have more fans, but overall the system is much quieter.

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Re:Not as great as you might think by Some+Dumbass... · 2003-07-27 12:13 · Score: 1

The problem is that the heatsink is just dumping heat into the cavity of your case

As compared to a fan, which blows magic pixie dust on the heat to make it go away. :) Seriously, though, if the card isn't overheating without a fan, then the fan is basically just generating more heat.

Notice, by the way, where that heat pipe sends some of the heat from the GPU. It transfers it to the large heatsink on the "bottom" of the card. In a standard case, the "bottom" of the AGP video card is closer to the rear case fan. In a case with two rear fans, the "bottom" heatsink might be directly in the path of the airflow to the lower fan (which presumably blows that hot air out of the case). Compare this to a videocard with a fan on it. Aside from the nVidia card you mentioned, the air blown over the heatsink is just scattered over the area below the video card. It seems to me that a heat pipe actually moves some of the heat into an area where the case airflow can get rid of it better, whereas the hot air coming from a fan doesn't get distributed in such a useful manner.
Re:Not as great as you might think by rob_macgregor · 2003-07-27 21:14 · Score: 1

Not necessarily. I've got the 9700 version of these cards in a midi tower case, along with an Athlon 2500 and the whole thing is pretty quiet. Not quiet enough that you have to check the power light to see if it's on or not, but getting close.

Yes, it has 5 case fans (6 including the one in the PSU). However they are all low noise fans and spend most of their time running on about 7V. With those all gently blowing air through the case I've seen it get as high as 55 Celcius, with ambient at 30 Celcius.

Trust me, it's a world quieter than the first release GeForce FX a friend has :-)

--
Following the rules doesn't get the job done.

Virtually silent? by chabotc · 2003-07-27 06:38 · Score: 3, Insightful

..fanless coolers on them that are virtually silent..

Care to explain how graphic cards with no fans, no moving parts at all are virtually silent? The cooling solution is totally passive, and thus makes no noice at all.. if it does, something went very, very wrong and it's probably the sound of the heavy cooling solution breaking your motherboard or graphic card ;-)

Re:Virtually silent? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-27 06:52 · Score: 2, Informative

Inductors hum, capacitors explode, resistors melts, ICs whine, etc... Both of my electric razors and my fast ethernet switch have power supplies that make a quiet twittering noise.
Re:virtually silent? by freeweed · 2003-07-27 09:44 · Score: 1

You mean you can't hear the sounds of electrons whizzing around an Aluminum nucleus? Or the ever-annoying ping of cosmic rays bouncing off nuclei??

--
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Re:Virtually silent? by Theobon · 2003-07-27 09:47 · Score: 1

The heatsink has a liquid core, thus moving parts. And seeing as liquid expands when heated needs to be room for this inside the core. This will createe bubbles. Bubbles cause noise when the water is migrating from hot to cold through the pipes. There is also small amounts of noise from the metal expanding and contracting. Thus virtualy silent.
Re:virtually silent? by boa13 · 2003-07-27 18:33 · Score: 1

Huh... virtually silent? Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how a large block of aluminum can be anything more than completely silent. ;)

It's not just a large block of aluminium: There's liquid in parts of the cooler. I sure hope it is also completely silent, too. What really matters is that there are no mechanical pieces involved, so your point remains valid.

Typical lifespan? by JarekC · 2003-07-27 06:40 · Score: 1

Does anyone know how long the typical lifespan of such a heatsink is? Would it survive longer than a typical fan-based heatsink?
I run my boxes 24x7 and it seems that in a dusty environment - such as my appartment - all fans need to be replaced every year or so.
This liquid-in-a-pipe concept seems like it might be a solution for my problem.

Re:Typical lifespan? by Simon · 2003-07-27 07:57 · Score: 4, Interesting

Does anyone know how long the typical lifespan of such a heatsink is? Would it survive longer than a typical fan-based heatsink? I run my boxes 24x7 and it seems that in a dusty environment - such as my appartment - all fans need to be replaced every year or so.
I think you just answered your own question. :-) In my experiance fans are _the_ most unreliable components in my systems. I'm using quality fans now and I've replace all fans on my GFX cards with heatsinks.
I imagine that a heat pipe would last much much longer than any fan. For a start they have almost no moving parts (well, no fiction really), and most of all no _exposed_ moving parts. (The pipe contains a liquid that moves/pumps heat by changing to a gas and back again.)
--
Simon
Re:Typical lifespan? by JarekC · 2003-07-27 18:26 · Score: 1

Well, it's not that obvious. Take for example rechargeable batteries. They do not have any moving parts whatsoever, but still they do not last forever. In fact their lifespan is limited to several hundred chargings.
I wonder if it's not the same with this heatsink. Maybe they start to "wear out" after several (hundred, thousand) liquid-to-gas and gas-back-to-liquid cycles?
Re:Typical lifespan? by Simon · 2003-07-27 22:38 · Score: 1

I've been researching and working on making my machines quiet for the last month, but I've never heard of that. :-) Do you have any photos or links about using these things inside a PC?
--
Simon
Re:Typical lifespan? by mobileskimo · 2003-07-28 04:30 · Score: 1

all fans need to be replaced every year or so.

That's odd. Maybe you need to look for better fans? My case (through 2 upgrades since its original 500Mhz installation) still has the original fans and only now one of them is starting to rattle (just add oil). I smoke, and live quite a filthy lifestyle where vacuuming and dusting was a fad. It's probably been 3 or more years and they still work just fine, after removing the wads of dusty from the fan grill. I might suspect maybe the stability of the power feed may impact the longevity of the motor on the fan, like anything else that's powered.

I imagine that a heat pipe would last much much longer than any fan. For a start they have almost no moving parts (well, no fiction really), and most of all no _exposed_ moving parts. (The pipe contains a liquid that moves/pumps heat by changing to a gas and back again.)

Remember that the heat sink efficiency will be FAR more sensitive to dust, since it relies so heavily on the surface to transfer heat. So, while they have the potential of being a "better" cooling device, they also have the potential to be a greater risk. A fan dies, its more likely you'll notice the noise difference. Heatsink gets choked, you'll notice when something is burning. I recommend you double check that a temperature monitor works properly after having one installed. (How do you test if you're temp monitor notifies correctly of overheats? Waste an extra card by burning it out? LOL)

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"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp

Nothing to see here by bahamat · 2003-07-27 06:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

No big news. All they did was take a Zalman vga cooler and package it with the card.

The only thing that really makes this significant, is that if it comes with the card you can't void your warranty by placing something "too heavy" on it.

What about the rest of the computer? by gagy · 2003-07-27 06:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

I've been sleeping next to noisy computers for most of my life. Back in the BBS era I'd have things download overnight, so I'm rather used to to all the noise. But if I was overly concerned with the noise, I wouldn't really care about the vid. card. There are much noisier components in a system, mainly the powersupply and some hard drives can be quite loud. People are now installing two or three case fans as well, adding to the cunundrum. I really don't think that adding one more noisy object to the mix would change things.

I know that some people spend their fortunes on quiet powersupplies and sound insulation and these cards might be what they're looking for, but for the most part they're a small nieche market.

--
-I DDoSed your mom.

Re:What about the rest of the computer? by koreth · 2003-07-27 07:08 · Score: 1

High-end video cards are pretty noisy these days, actually. One of the GeForceFX cards has a fan that many reviewers have likened to a leaf-blower.
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by mr.henry · 2003-07-27 07:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

I recently upgraded my box with 'quiet' components and it wasn't too difficult or expensive. I took off the stock AMD Athlon heatsink/fan combo and installed a ThermalRight SLK-800 ($40) heatsink and an Pabst 8412N ($17) 80 mm fan. I also took off the rear 80 mm fan on my case and replaced it with a Pabst (another $17). For the power supply, I put in a Nexus NX-3000 ($75).
For around $150 total, the improvement was pretty dramatic. The only sound I hear from my box now is the hard drive, and if that ever starts to become an annoyance, there are options.
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by rsilva · 2003-07-27 07:59 · Score: 1

To build a reasonably quiet PC is not that expensive nowadays. However you must have silence as ojective while choosing the components.

For example you can use:

1) Case + PSU: antec sonata
2) HD: Seagate barracuda
3) CPU cooler: a Zalman cooler
4) Graphics card: MSI FX5600-VTDR128 (only 25 db)
5) Choose a motherboard with passive cooling

Those components are not much more expensive than quality components and you should end up with a reasonably quiet pc (around 30 db, not dead silent but good).
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by PetWolverine · 2003-07-27 08:30 · Score: 1

But if I was overly concerned with the noise, I wouldn't really care about the vid. card. There are much noisier components in a system, mainly the powersupply and some hard drives can be quite loud.

Actually, I disagree. Right now, as I type this, I'm sitting two feet from my computer, yet I can't hear the video card fan, the optical drive fan, the three hard drives, the case fan, or the power supply fans. And this is the model of Power Mac G4 commonly known as the Windtunnel.

No, the noise that's bothering me right now is not due to any of the fans in my computer at all, but due to the fact that it heats up the room so much I have two large fans on. If I hadn't turned on the A/C an hour or so ago, I would also have several windows open, and I would still be sweating.

Currently, with my parents out of town for a week (w00t), I've moved my computer into a more spacious part of the house, but my bedroom is usually several degrees hotter than the rest of the house, and that's with a ceiling fan, a small but powerful fan on the floor, and either three large windows and a door wide open, or the air conditioning on.

I suppose it's the price I pay for having a (formerly) high-end desktop, but sometimes I almost wish I had gone with a PowerBook. Of course, a friend of mine who has a PowerBook complains that it gets too hot to have on his lap, so I guess there are trade-offs either way--or maybe an iMac is the only viable solution.

--
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by gagy · 2003-07-27 08:58 · Score: 1

For around $150 total, the improvement was pretty dramatic.

DAMN, $150, and that's US. I don't have that kind of cash! Good thing i'm used to loud computers :)

--
-I DDoSed your mom.
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by Fweeky · 2003-07-27 09:40 · Score: 1

I wouldn't really care about the vid. card. There are much noisier components in a system, mainly the powersupply and some hard drives can be quite loud

HD's these days are amazingly quiet. PSU's don't tend to be that loud. CPU's and GPU's are the two hottest components in most systems, and GPU's tend to be squeezed into very tight areas, meaning their fans are often rather powerful to offset the small heatsink. Consequently, GPU coolers on modern GFX cards can be one of, if not THE loudest parts of a system these days.

Certainly on my machine; with a 5400RPM fan cooling my Athlon 1.4GHz Tbird (hottest AMD until the XP3000+), a dual fan Antec PSU, two 120mm case fans and no less than four HD's (including two amazingly quiet Seagate 7200.7's), the GPU cooler on my Ti4200 is the loudest component.
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by LiquidCoooled · 2003-07-27 13:45 · Score: 1

just to let you know, my new MSI fx5900 is quieter than my old 4200 was
This actually shocked me, since every upgrade so far has produced a louder and louder system (I swapped out the stock fan in the xp2400 within minutes of getting it installed - it was soooooo loud.
The noises inside modern computers are phenominal compared to old systems, but the most unbearable noise EVER was the floppy disk click in my otherwise silent amiga!!

In my home system, im left with the noise of the drives as being annoying - actually its more like a high pitched whine - worse than just fan noise.
I guess its time to upgrade them next :)

--
liqbase :: faster than paper
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by toddestan · 2003-07-27 14:39 · Score: 1

Why choose that graphics card when there are silent ones, like the ones in this article? Also, if graphics performance is not to terribly important, there are cheap fanless ones like many of the Radeon 9000s.

I still prefer to make the computer as noisy as it needs to be, locate the box in a closet or another room, and run the cables out to the mouse/keyboard/monitor. Problem solved.
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by pAnkRat · 2003-07-27 19:01 · Score: 1

> In my home system, im left with the noise of the
> drives as being annoying - actually its more like
> a high pitched whine - worse than just fan noise.
> I guess its time to upgrade them next :)

Yep, I had two off those IBM 80 Gig Drives, they whined like hell after a few minutes uptime.
Not a real loud noise, just a high pitched noise (like having a tinitus).

I replaced them with Seagates Baracuda (120 Gig)
which is virtualy silent in my opinion.

I also replaced the stock power suply (some cheap no-name thing) with an Enermax (EG365P-VE FMA) which has the adjustable Fanspeed feature.
I installed the Zalman heatpipe on my Geforce Ti4200, and put an Artic cooling (AC????) heatsink on my Athlon 1700+.

Now my PC can't realy be heard standing 5 feet away, hell, my aquarium produces more noise than my PC. (Guess I'll hop over to www.aquarium-tuning.com)

--
When a man gives you a fish,
you owe him a fish.
When you teach yourself to fish,
you go to jail for DMCA violation.

--
we need an "-1 Plain wrong" moderation option!
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by AutumnLeaf · 2003-07-27 20:51 · Score: 1

I just recently replaced the heat-sink on my wife's computer with a much larger heat-sink that uses a 120MM fan to move air over the heat-sink at low RPMs. After doing this, I spent two minutes trying to figure out where the fan noise was coming from. Turns out it was the graphics card, with a little tiny fan right on the GPU that makes an amazing amount of noise given its size. It is the loudest fan in her computer now. By far.
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by Zugok · 2003-07-27 22:36 · Score: 1

I just got myself a Thermaltake Xaser III with the Thermaltake 420W PSU with PFC. The case comes with 7 fans. I'm running a stock heat sink for my P4 2.6C. Granted I only have a GeForce MMX440, but it's damn quiet, a lot quieter than my old dual P5 200MHz MMX, and my new rig stays between 25-30 deg C. Mind you it is winter here and I don't know what the Bribane summer is going to do. And the cost? US$165 for case and PSU.

--
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
Re:What about the rest of the computer? by evilviper · 2003-07-27 22:58 · Score: 1

I've been sleeping next to noisy computers for most of my life.

I've slept near some noisy computers for a long time, but I'm a very deep sleeper, and even I am now incredibly annoyed by the sound of a PC. After a few years, even the most plesant sound can get on your nerves. But more than that, I'm getting annoyed because new computers produce an order of magnitude more heat than older computers, meaning much much louder cooling solutions. To make things worse, cheaper cooling products are much louder than equivalent products you might have bought up to about 3-4 years ago. Now instead of nice white noise, you have a very high-pitched whine that can drive anyone insane.

I wouldn't really care about the vid. card. There are much noisier components in a system, mainly the powersupply and some hard drives can be quite loud.

Well, they can be, but not necessarily. If you spend some good money on reasonably quiet fans and hard drive, you can get the sound to a reasonable level. Then you stick in a videocard with a fan, and it will be the serious noisemaker.

but for the most part they're a small nieche market.

Quieter PCs is a niche market that is going to explode... Computers are getting so much more prevalent, running so much longer, and getting so much louder, I expect that it will be months, not years, before a huge number of people look into trying to quiet things down. I think it's a niche market myself, but only because fan-free videocards are widely available already. This is only good for those who want a silent PC, AND want a very top-of-the-line videocard as well. Combine those two and you've got a small niche.

--
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant

Enough! by Junks+Jerzey · 2003-07-27 06:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

Slashdotters love to make fun of soccer moms driving big, fuel wasting SUVs, then these same people go out and get monster graphics cards that need crazy cooling nonsense. In all honesty, maybe we've crossed the line here? The little benefit these cards are resulting in (remember, 98% of all games still aren't making use of pixel shaders) is not worth all of the energy waste, not to mention all the wasted materials that go into heat sinks and heat pipes and all of that.

Re:Enough! by gearheadsmp · 2003-07-27 07:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

remember, 98% of all games still aren't making use of pixel shaders

Ah, but what you're forgetting is that a vast majority of the games published any given day are crap. Just ask you're nearest game reviewer (ie PC Gamer, Gamespy, etc).
Re:Enough! by freeweed · 2003-07-27 09:33 · Score: 1, Insightful

Amazingly enough, not every one of the hundreds of thousands of people that visit Slashdot think the exact same thing on a particular subject. Some of us even drive SUVs.

Wow! Individual thought! Whod'a thunk it?

--
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Re:Enough! by Durendal · 2003-07-27 22:22 · Score: 1

OMH, I own an RX300 and a Toyota Prius. Am I amazingly inconsistent or do I average out to a light green car owner?
Re:Enough! by evilviper · 2003-07-27 23:08 · Score: 1

You can't even remotely compare the small ammount of heat given off by a videocard to the pollution given off by an SUV... That's ridiculous!

You might as well say that cigarette smokers don't have any right to complain about pollution...

But, besides the point, I happen to HATE hot computer components... Only a small part of that is environmental (appropriate, since they only do a small bit, if any, environmental damage) and I don't buy any videocards that run so hot they need a fan... Hey, guess what, slashdot isn't a hive mind; we don't all think alike.

not to mention all the wasted materials that go into heat sinks and heat pipes and all of that.

First off, they are almost exclusively recycleable materials. It's not as if people are using toxic waste to cool their computers. Secondly, a tiny ammount of materal goes into making things like that. You would have much more right to complain about the excess packaging materials.

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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant

Quit yer whining by Cryp2Nite · 2003-07-27 06:44 · Score: 1

$45 - RADEON 9200 64MB $69 - RADEON 9100 128MB $61 - RADEON 9100 64MB $74 - RADEON 9000 Pro 128MB $67 - RADEON 9000 Pro 64MB $46 - RADEON 9000 $61 - RADEON 9000 128MB $46 - RADEON 9000 64MB $64 - RADEON 8500 $40 - RADEON 7500 $55 - RADEON 7500 128MB $30 - RADEON 7000 $59 - RADEON 64MB DDR VIVO $30 - RADEON 32MB DDR The lameness filter thinks, I should add some more . But I think the list above about covers it. Apparently There's still more to type so here goes:

If you want the latest and greatest: pay up.
If you want something cheaper: buy last years tech.
If you want the latest and greatest against last years tech prices: Grow up!

What about... by Enigma1625 · 2003-07-27 06:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

water cooling? It is becoming more popular and I can only imagine prices will start to become more reasonable. Completely silent, and more effective than fans/heatsinks; what more could you ask for?

Re:What about... by DigitalGlass · 2003-07-27 07:14 · Score: 1

ummm.... you could always ask for a hose blowing and filling the inside of your pc with H20?
Re:What about... by johnny0101 · 2003-07-27 07:19 · Score: 1

some kind of liquid cooling would be useful if the liquid didn't conduct... ie, short out your electronics if the system leaked... I don't think i want water running through my system. i can stand my fan noise :D

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In Soviet Russia, the overlords welcome you!
Re:What about... by Elwood+P+Dowd · 2003-07-27 07:36 · Score: 1

what more could you ask for?

A dry computer?

--

There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Re:What about... by wheany · 2003-07-27 07:56 · Score: 1

Water pumps make almost no noise. At least when compared to a fan. Of course you'll probably still need a fan for a radiator, but going from CPU&NB&GPU ( and if you are hard-core, Power) fans to 1 large fan that runs at 7 volts makes a big difference.
Re:What about... by johnny0101 · 2003-07-27 08:05 · Score: 1

Pure water does not conduct electricity... You can buy de-ionized water at the grocery store.

ok, i'll give you the money to buy a gallon of deionized water and you go dump it on your computer? deal?
h2o is a POLAR molecule by definition. (although weak, hello high school chem) deionizing just neutralizes any ions in the water.
So yes pure water DOES conduct. It's weak though. I haven't tested it by spilling it on my motherboard though... feel free to be the guinea pig

--

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In Soviet Russia, the overlords welcome you!
Re:What about... by PetWolverine · 2003-07-27 08:19 · Score: 1

Pure water may not conduct, but if it spills on your motherboard, it won't remain pure for long. I'm sure ordinary house dust has the necessary ions to short out sensitive electronics when dissolved in water, and the inside of my case, at least, has no shortage of such dust.

--
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Re:What about... by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2003-07-27 08:48 · Score: 1

Is water cooling convection powered? I thought that the water cooling method needed a water pump and a fan. With that, I don't understand how it is completely silent.
Re:What about... by Fweeky · 2003-07-27 09:50 · Score: 1

Thermaltake Aquarius II, £60 for an all-included watercooling kit. Reasonable enough for you?

Not completely silent, but 29dBA isn't that far off.
Re:What about... by EvanED · 2003-07-27 12:09 · Score: 1

To be fair, with water cooling you could probably completely seal off the inside of the case in terms of airflow and not have much dust.

I still wouldn't want to do it though... I, like the great grandparent, am very wary of having water cursing through my computer.
Re:What about... by PurpleBob · 2003-07-27 14:05 · Score: 3, Funny

I still wouldn't want to do it though... I, like the great grandparent, am very wary of having water cursing through my computer.

Water molecule #38572039471928372: "God damn it - time to cool the fucking CPU again. Why the hell doesn't that piece of shit stop putting out so much fucking heat? Jesus."

--
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota

Same old Zalman cooler by steronz · 2003-07-27 06:46 · Score: 3, Informative

It should be noted that the same coolers have been available from Zalman for some time. That they're now packaged from the factory with this cards should hardly be newsworthy.

Well look what we got here. by PgDn · 2003-07-27 06:51 · Score: 1

First of all the GPU cooler in use is similar in technology to the heat sink used in Shuttle systems. Furthmore while this GPU cooler has low noise levels it takes up a lot of space it seems, blocking at least one PCI slot. This was a problem for a lot of people who saw the GeForce FX series of heat sinks for the first time. So I find it funny if ATI card holders did not care or something. But yeah the worst thing you have to worry about as far as noise is your power supply. My Asus FX card is damn near unregconizable comapred to my CPU Heatsink (its the loudest thing at 31 dcp) So sucks to you.

Let's get serious on quiet by pair-a-noyd · 2003-07-27 06:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

When I was a kid my mother used to tell me that silence is golden. I hated to hear those words then. Now I know that she was right.

I am bloody sick of loud ass hard drives and fans and everything else. The fans are no big deal but the hard drives are the real problem.
I've yet to see a hard drive that doesn't scream like a small dog in pain. That noise goes through your head like a bayonet.

I'm building a huge cabinet to put *ALL* of my equipment in made out of an old soda water cooler from a drive in store. It's sound proof and thermally it will keep the heat in so I can duct it out through the ceiling, thus keeping the computer room cool and saving money on the AC cooling bill. It gets damn hot with all the PC's and laserjets and stuff running..

Let's get some quiet hard drives too folks..
I'm really sick of noisy machines. I'd even like to have a silent fridge if they make one..

Re:Let's get serious on quiet by Txiasaeia · 2003-07-27 07:23 · Score: 1

...yet to see a hard drive that doesn't scream like a small dog in pain...

Western Digital 800 (80GB) special ed is silent. I cannot hear it at all.

On a related note, congratulations on the superpower. Let me be the first to dub you "Sight For Sore Ears Man."

--
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Re:Let's get serious on quiet by Simon · 2003-07-27 07:49 · Score: 4, Informative

Have you tried suspending your drives? It can be done cheaply and makes a big difference.
There are some good drives these days that are very quiet. Seagate Barracuda series drives are legendary among the Quiet PC crowd. Although other manufacturers are also bringing out quiet drives.
If you really want a silent computer you might as well get some information:
How to Quiet the Thing
Silent PC Review
--
Simon
Re:Let's get serious on quiet by ergo98 · 2003-07-27 07:50 · Score: 1

I'll second that about the fluid bearing Western Digital: Extremely quiet. I have the power saving mode that spools the HD down, a habit from prior configurations where the hard drive was the loud part and it was some aureal relief, however with this drive it's imperceptible if it's actually spinning or not.

The Volcano 7 heatsink on the other hand...what a mistake.
Re:Let's get serious on quiet by the+idoru · 2003-07-27 08:20 · Score: 1

try quietpc.com. that'll be easier that rerouting your ductwork.
Re:Let's get serious on quiet by Cordath · 2003-07-27 09:13 · Score: 3, Informative

Or...

You could save a lot of effort and just build a quiet PC. In my experience it's a lot cheaper and easier to eliminate noise by the careful selection of noise generating components rather than building large enclosures. Enclosures you might think would block noise can often actually *amplify* it by acting like a horn or resonator.

Anyways... Here are my current picks for a quiet PC:

Overclocking: Don't

CPU Heatsink: Heatsinks change so fast that giving you specific models is pointless. However, as a general rule, if it comes with it's own fan, chances are it's too freakin' loud. Stock HSF combo's from Intel and AMD are right out. Look for a hefty heatsink with a lot of surface area made out of a conductive metal like copper. You can find heat dissipation spec's for most heatsinks online. Odds are you will have to spend 50 bucks or so here, but it's one place not to cheap out. Don't forget to use thermal paste when you install it!

CPU Fan: If you have a good heatsink installed properly you won't need a freakin' hoover to keep your CPU running cool. The minimum ammount of airflow you'll need is going to depend on how much heat your CPU generates and how well your heatsink dissipates heat. I've found that even a 20CFM (cubic feet per minute) fan will do well even on a high end athlon if you have the right heatsink. For comparison, some stock fans do upwards of 120CFM.

Graphics Card Cooling: Go passive. Buy a card with a passive cooler or replace the fan. Those little wussy fans they put on graphics card may look innocuous, but many are cheap pieces of crap that will develop a high-pitched and loud whine in short order. Cheap fans, no matter how small, are the bane of silent computing.

Motherboard Cooling: Ditto. If it has a fan, replace it with a heatsink or don't buy it in the first place. The latter is my personal choice.

Hard-Drives: Once I would have written pages on suspension techniques, enclosures, network booting, etc. to tell you how to avoid noisy hard-drives. Now I can just tell you to buy Seagate Barracuda's. While other manufacturers are closing the gap, these suckers still have a hefty 6dB lead on anything WD has, and a wider lead for any other manufacturer.

Case Fans: Guess what. 20CFM fans are all you need here too. I usually have one blow into the case over the hard-drives and another blow out of the case by the CPU cooler, but there are other configurations you can use. The key thing here it to pick high-quality quiet fans. I swear by 20CFM Panaflo's. Three of them (2 case fans, 1 CPU fan) will not be audible over even a very quiet PSU. These fans are about $15 CAD, so aren't bank breakers either. You can get fans that move more air, but don't bother unless you find you need that extra airflow. If you do, add more low-CFM fans to work in parallel rather than installing high-CFM fans. Note that Panaflo makes other 80mm fans with more airflow, but they are much louder. Stick with the 20CFM fanss.

Power Supply Units: If you've built the rest of your machine properly, the fans in your PSU will be the *only* thing you normally hear. I consider PSU's to be the one item that is lagging behind the rest out there. You can pay a fortune for a fanless PSU such as those TK Power makes, or you can buy a PSU with too much fan noise. Things are getting better though. Antec's Truepower PSU's are high-quality units that are pretty quiet and are also very affordable. They're lightyears ahead of anything Enermax makes anyways. I'd try one of them out first and see if it's too loud for you before resorting to more extreme measures. After that, you can try opening up the PSU and modding the fans to run on lower voltage or use different fans. If all else fails, you can go fanless, but it will cost you bigtime!

Water-cooling: Since the PSU in a system built under these guidelines is all you'll hear, if you aren't willing to watercool your PSU then there's no point to it at all. Watercooled PSU's have yet to go mainstream, so this is heavy modding territory. I have encountered many watercooling systems where the water-pump alone is noisier than three of my systems. Watercooling isn't where it's at... yet. It may be the future though.
Re:Let's get serious on quiet by evilviper · 2003-07-27 22:46 · Score: 1

I've yet to see a hard drive that doesn't scream like a small dog in pain

Western Digital hard drives seem to be significantly quieter than the same generation Maxtor hard drives.

Also, the newer the hard drive, the quieter they seem to be... My old 6.4 GB Maxtor HDD sounds like a small tin chainsaw... Meanwhile, my 100GB Western Digital harddrive is very very quiet.

Also, you can do quite a bit about the noise as well, other than improving the components. What I do is to place towers on the floor, under a table, and as far away from people as possible. You'd be surprised the difference in volume just from moving a tower from the table top right next to you, to the floor under the table... When it's right next to your ear, even the most quiet noise is irritating. Additionally, when it's sitting on a table, the noise is actually amplified by the vibration-carrying surface. Put it on something softer, or in a hanging holder, and the volume will drop.

My two favorites are distance and obstacles. If you have something in between your ears and the tower (like a table-top, or a wall) you instantly reduce the sound significantly. Finally, double the distance away from your ears, and you quarter the noise you will hear, so moving it just a little further away can have a significant improvement.

thermally it will keep the heat in so I can duct it out through the ceiling, thus keeping the computer room cool and saving money on the AC cooling bill.

Wouldn't work too well for me. Here in the desert, temperatures very close to 130F degrees are very common, so ducting it outside would be almost like putting everything in a completely enclosed cabinet. I would need some cooling solution in addition to the cabinet.

--
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant

So the news is... by ealar+dlanvuli · 2003-07-27 06:57 · Score: 1

They are using a heatsink?

Um... yeah.

I'm going back to bed, wake me if anything worth knowing happens.

--
I live in a giant bucket.

For DIYers on a budget by johnny6vasquez · 2003-07-27 07:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

The sound was driving me crazy one day so I got out the hacksaw.

Just take any old stock AMD or P4 heatsink and chop it in half. I didn't have proper heatsink fasteners on my card so drilled it out and zip tied it down. The bottom is still smooth and the paste was properly applied.

The only problem was getting the stock fan off as it was glued on. I put my card in a ziplock bag
and chucked it in the freezer for half an hour. Then I used a screwdriver to pry off the fan assembly (with an old library card to protect the pcb).

Check it out (it's not a swiss watch but it gets the job done).

Pic 1: http://fullcircletraining.com/images/quiet1.jpg

Pic 2: http://fullcircletraining.com/images/quiet2.jpg

You can see I did the same thing to the northbridge on the motherboard.

happy modding.
j.

Re:For DIYers on a budget by johnny6vasquez · 2003-07-27 07:53 · Score: 1

Hey, thanks but I think you missed the point. I'm not cooling the video memory, I'm cooling the GPU. I know that I can get heat sinks for cheap, but none of the stores in my town had them in stock and I used what I had kicking around the parts bin. The Zalman video cooler is way more expensive than what I did. Not only that but a second hand stock AMD heatsink is less that $15. Besides, it took me half and hour, and most of all, I had fun doing it. I mean, look at it; how fucking funny is that?
Re:For DIYers on a budget by RandyOo · 2003-07-27 09:34 · Score: 1

I did the same thing for a friend who lives in Turkey. I was visiting him and his motherboard's northbridge fan was dying a noisy death, and the nearest computer store was a few hours away, so... We took an old AMD CPU heat sink, sawed it in half, put some thermal goop between it and the chip, and epoxy all the way around the edges.
It'll never come off again, but who cares?! Nice pictures of yours, by the way.
Re:For DIYers on a budget by johnny6vasquez · 2003-07-27 10:40 · Score: 1

I did that to another card long time ago. I found it really helped a lot.

I found that when I touched the top of the card where the chip was mounted underneath, the card was quite hot.

So since the amount of heat needed to be dissipated from the card is constant regardless of where it's dissipated from, I mounted a heat sink on the back of the card too. Double the heat sink size by having half below, half on top. The contact area on the back/top of the card is smooth and is lightly covered in paste. If you look at the picture, you'll see that the sinks are mounted lengthwise opposite to the card (does that make sense?). I did that otherwise the sink on the back/top would come into contact with some of the solder points. This way, the only thing it touches is the back of the card.

I never figured out why chipset manufacturers mount the chips and sinks on the underside. Heat rises. It would make more sense from a thermal point of vue to mount everything on the other side of the card. Maybe there they don't want to get too close to the CPU on some motherboards who knows. I haven't bothered to look it up but there's probably some standard somewhere that says it must be so.

So back to your question, I don't care much for aesthetics or what the standard is. I just think it makes lots of sense to take heat away in the direction it wants to move.
Re:For DIYers on a budget by boa13 · 2003-07-27 18:29 · Score: 1

From my end-user point of view, the vast improvement from ISA to PCI cards was that the card logic went from the top side to the bottom side of the card. Sure, it doesn't help cooling, but it helps prevent dusting! I just hate to clean those ISA cards.

virtually silent? by verbatim_verbose · 2003-07-27 07:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

Huh... virtually silent? Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how a large block of aluminum can be anything more than completely silent. ;)

Re:Why would I want to make LESS noise? by whiteranger99x · 2003-07-27 07:11 · Score: 1

I dig the loud PC. I start the thing up and it sounds like one of those backpack leaf blowers.

Lemme guess, you start your computer with a gas engine, complete with ripcord, like a lawnmower right? ;)

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Join the TWIT army now!

Fan reliability by BWJones · 2003-07-27 07:13 · Score: 4, Informative

The other issue we are going to be having is fan reliability. In servers, we can tell if fans go bad through notification. However, when the fan on my GeForceTi gave up the ghost last week, I only knew about it because I was in the case adding a card. With the proliferation of fans in computers, I would like to see either 1) built in software checks to identify fan status, or 2) more efficient passive cooling techniques that don't require fans. Having a truly silent PC on your desk is pretty nice as illustrated by the Apple Cube connected to a flat panel. Totally silent as opposed to my other workstations (Apple included).

--
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Re:Fan reliability by RzUpAnmsCwrds · 2003-07-27 08:29 · Score: 2, Informative

Two things:

1: The G4 cube is nowhere near "totally silent" for one reason: hard drive noise. The only reason we don't hear the spinning in most PCs is because of the fans.

2: HDD noise will decrease over time; I have two Samsung Spinpoint P40 drives which have a DSP designed to reduce seek noise. So the objective should be to make fan noise less loud than the HDD spin noise. Many of the HP Compaq workstations accomplish this with quiet, thermally managed fans.

So, completely passive cooling is nice. Heck, I have a Zalman in my system. But I also have 3 Panaflo L1A fans and an Alpha 8045. The're all thermally managed and monitored. Thus, fan noise is not an issue. My two HDDs are far louder.
Re:Fan reliability by toddestan · 2003-07-27 14:55 · Score: 1

I guess more dust could get in, not to mention cats, kids, etc.

Some cases though are designed with airflow in mind, and when you have the case open it screws up that airflow and temperatures can actually increase. Though I haven't seen increases of more than a couple of degrees, YMMV.
Re:Fan reliability by dreadlocks · 2003-07-28 02:04 · Score: 1

I guess some pc makers went the cheap route with respect to being able to monitor fan status. They want you to use your senses.

1.You now have the amazing option to have a window in the side of the case. Now rather than relying on software notification, you can just look thru the window and check the fan status.

2. You can put your hand on the case. If it burns, then you may have a fan problem

3. If the jet engine sound that you hear when you boot up is gone, you may have a fan problem

4. If you smell something smokey-like, then you may have a fan problem.

5. If you taste (well let's not address that one)

Future Cooling? by heli0 · 2003-07-27 07:18 · Score: 1

When are these things going to require something like water or peltier cooling? The Radeon9700/9800 and GF-FX5800/5900 already exceed the AGP3.0 spec for power consumption and require a direct connection from the power supply. Radeon 9700: 54W, GF-FX 5800: 74W.

The FX-5900 must use less power since they were able to ditch the giant cooler.

Any idea on the type of power consumption that would mandate something beyond air cooling?

--
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...

Come on mods! by FreeLinux · 2003-07-27 07:25 · Score: 1

This is a perfectly valid question. How is it Offtopic?

I too am left wondering what sort of noise this card generates. I had expected a heatsink without a fan to be completely silent. Why is this "virtually silent"?

brightly colored PCBs? by Saeger · 2003-07-27 07:27 · Score: 2, Funny

...for the Apple trendwhores, right? Because nothing says style and performance like a purple neon card inside your computer. WTF?

I wonder what these casemodders are going to do for lifestyle status symbolism when personal computing devices finally shrink out of sight over the next decade? Paint their smartcards with glow-in-the-dark paint? Have the OLED display woven into the back of their shirt display the SETI@Home screensaver with a message like "345,000 work units complete, beeyatches!"?

--

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Power to the Peaceful

I don't even know where to begin. by AntiOrganic · 2003-07-27 07:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

98% of all games still aren't making use of pixel shaders

And 80% of games are in 2 dimensions. What's your point?
I realize this statistic is fictitious and was hastily pulled from my ass; so was yours.

Most PC applications don't require much more than a 300 MHz CPU and 96 MB of system RAM. What's your point?

HDTV is being pushed as a standard but most people don't even have S-Video inputs on their televisions. What's your point?

Some people like technology. Some people like quality better, speed faster, and they want it to be quiet. Sure, these things may chug 50-60W (arbitrary figure, it's probably much, much lower) when they're in use playing a 3D game, but people don't 3D game to to and from work every day.

And is it really "wasted"? There's a noticeable and beneficial effect. It is by no means the same as driving an SUV alone using the rear cargo area to haul groceries and your daughter's broken bicycle.

Additionally, you're ignoring the other aspects of SUVs which make them infeasible as car replacements, such as the high rollover rate, the tendency of SUVs to "trip" when hitting small animals such as foxes on the road, or sometimes when the pavement so much as changes texture. SUVs are also regulated as "light trucks" so that they don't have to conform to the same federal safety regulations as normal vehicles. This is due to lobbying on the part of SUV manufacturers, and consumers still buy these deathtraps at premium prices despite how little effort went into making them safe.

The gas consumption and wastefulness of SUVs are only the tip of the iceberg.

Besides, you're ignoring the fact that it's a matter of adoption, and scale which determines waste -- you didn't see us yammering about SUVs much when 15000 people drove them because they weren't popular enough to cause a problem.

nothing is quieter than ice cubes by AssFace · 2003-07-27 07:32 · Score: 3, Funny

When my system is running hot, I'll toss a couple of ice cubes onto my video card.

Totally silent.

Usually then my system crashes and goes down for a day or so and during that time it almost never overheats.

Pretty efficient if you ask me.

--

There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.

Oh yes it is! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-27 07:36 · Score: 1, Insightful

The problem is that the heatsink is just dumping heat into the cavity of your case, and you will need some serious (and loud) fans to remove it from there.

But that's the thing! The case itself is easy to cool quietly - the case is the only place where you can use as large fans as you want. Larger fans == more airflow for the RPM, lower RPM == less noise. Two 120mm fans should give you all the airflow you'll ever need...

Does someone remember the quiet Hercules 64KB? by k.ellsworth · 2003-07-27 07:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

It was like 10 years ago when we all had fun with "prince of persia" in the all mighty's XT @8mHz...

I mean the whole computer world has evolved, into GPU's that are faster than CPU's 12 months old, using big smart busses (128, 256 even 512 bits), using DDR3 technology...

I had a XT, and i spent almost the same daily hours playing that i currently spend today... is just me or is the same but bigger, faster and stronger?

--
Putting a windows cd backwards, plays evil messages, but it gets worse, putting it right, installs windows.

The real future by Gossy · 2003-07-27 07:48 · Score: 5, Interesting

This is where it's really at.

http://www.directron.com/fanless.html

It's a Zalman case that is coming soon. It will cost a lot - but the entire case acts as a big heatsink. They claim it can easily cool the hottest GPU & CPU's out there, assuming your PC room isn't a furnace, I presume. :)

Here's a japanese link verifying Zalman as the people behind it. http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba/hotline/20030 712/etc_tnn500a.html

This is the holy grail for silent computing enthusiasts!

Re:The real future by Anonymous Coward · 2003-07-27 08:15 · Score: 2, Informative

Go to Zalman's forums. They say it will be available in the US in September for $900 to $1100.
Re:The real future by linuxpng · 2003-07-27 09:59 · Score: 1

Apple has already done this with their iMac flat panels. The entire inside of an iMac is a big metal heatsync. Through heat tubing, the heat is channeled off the proc to meet up and be disippated through the whole case. One fan sucks air from the bottom vents to blow the heat out. Very elegant.
Re:The real future by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2003-07-27 11:14 · Score: 1

It looks very interesting, but for the price, I think I'd rather make a hush box for a standard case. Also, I don't see any provisions for removable media.

I am fine with my current arrangement, I have a relatively quiet computer, sitting on some carpet, under a desk with accoustical panels behind it.

I don't have a graphics card with a fan on it though.
Re:The real future by mmmbeer · 2003-07-28 02:09 · Score: 1

One of the problems with the CPU cooler on this case is that is is designed to work in 3 orientations. Heatpipes only work when the end of the pipe is higher than the heat source you're trying to sink. The claim the six pipes combined are 150W/sec, but two are pointed down, two are level, and two go up. (image ) Therefore, you can only really get 50W/sec any one position you put the case in (on its side, upside down, or right-side up)

Re:FIRST GOATSE by Saeger · 2003-07-27 07:51 · Score: 1

The Goatse.cx image was worn out way before 2001; it was known as "The Stinger" on IRC for quite a while.

Anyway ... it's hard to top the anus for pure offense.

--

--
Power to the Peaceful

For those interested in weird cooling solutions by ctr2sprt · 2003-07-27 07:52 · Score: 1

You might also want to check out the Leadtek A300TD (pictures are unfortunately not working). It's a GF FX with a different cooling design. Basically they wrapped the entire video card in an aluminum box, then stuck two angled fans in the housing. I read all the FX reviews like everyone else and got nervous about the fan noise, but I can't hear this card at all over my power supply fan. (I was actually worried that the fans might not be working, but the card stays a relatively cool 62C. The cutoff is 140C.)

Anyway, I have no idea why it works so well, but it definitely does. It's something to consider instead of passive cooling, and it's almost certainly more efficient too.

Tom's Hardware Review by Chymaera · 2003-07-27 08:12 · Score: 3, Informative

Tom's Hardware also has a review of this Zalman heatsink and the Sapphire Atlantis Radeon 9700 PRO Ultimate Edition.

I'm not impressed with sapphire's build quality by E1v!$ · 2003-07-27 08:32 · Score: 2, Interesting

These cards are just standard card's running Zalman's ZM80 cooler.

I bought one of these for my GF3 and found the kit well made, and easy to install. Overall a good setup.

I later bought a Sapphire 9700 Pro Ultimate Edition with a ZM80 pre-installed (just like the cards above). The heat synch was improperly aligned, the conduction tube was bent away from the sync and almost NO thermal compound was evident between the tube and the heat sync plates. (Zalman's install instructions stress the importance of maximizing contact area between the plates and the tube)

I WOULD buy another ZM80, but I wouldn't buy another sapphire card with one pre installed. :(

IMO stay away from these cards. buy a regular version, and install a passive cooler yourself.

Re:I'm not impressed with sapphire's build quality by luekj · 2003-07-27 13:11 · Score: 1

This is strange, because [Rage3d.com] seem to do nothing but rave about sapphires quality and how they're somehow tight with ATI and make really good stuff.
Yet it's not to hard to find bad stories about them elsewhere.
Oh well.

--
Many Thanks,
Luke

Re:Why? by BWJones · 2003-07-27 09:18 · Score: 1

Why the hell would you have a GeForceTi in a server?

Because my workstation is my server as well. OS X gives me the possibility of having one workstation run all of my *nix code, along with Photoshop, Office, IDL, Multispec, Safari, Mail, Keynote, etc...etc..etc... at the same time as functioning as a rather competent server all in a plug and play environment with a nice GUI on top.

--
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.

Actually there's little competition by Junks+Jerzey · 2003-07-27 09:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

With all the competition these days in the 3D Accelerator market

The vast majority of consumer PCs ship with one of the following:

1. Intel Extreme Graphics 2 (a motherboard chipset roughly equivalent to a TNT2).
2. GeForce 4 MX (essentially GeForce 2 with more fillrate, but without programmable shaders).

The little bit of competition is all at rather small high-end of the market, with nVidia and ATI out diddling each other by a few percent every couple of months. Hardware fanboys excepted, this is uninteresting.

Re:Actually there's little competition by Pulzar · 2003-07-28 01:19 · Score: 1

The vast majority of consumer PCs ship with one of the following:

1. Intel Extreme Graphics 2 (a motherboard chipset roughly equivalent to a TNT2).
2. GeForce 4 MX (essentially GeForce 2 with more fillrate, but without programmable shaders).

Latest Mercury numbers indicate that Intel has under 30% graphics market share, and nVidia's integrated solution adds another 9% (half of the total AMD market). Vast majority? It's not even majority!

Look around for data to confirm things you hear from others before you spread the misinformation.

--
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
Re:Actually there's little competition by Junks+Jerzey · 2003-07-28 01:57 · Score: 1

Latest Mercury numbers indicate that Intel has under 30% graphics market share, and nVidia's integrated solution adds another 9% (half of the total AMD market). Vast majority? It's not even majority!

The GeForce 4 MX is not "nVidia's integrated solution." Sorry. It's the bottom-end card from nVidia that's the default in almost all machines from Dell.

Re:Why would I want to make LESS noise? by JudgeFurious · 2003-07-27 12:41 · Score: 1

FLAMEBAIT?

Slashdot moderators remain completely devoid of the ability to evaluate a post. Film at 11

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Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.

On the Subject of Sapphire Cards by luekj · 2003-07-27 12:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

I recently purchased a Sapphire 9700;

It may have not come with a fancy heavy heat sink, but it sure heated up to the point of automatic self-destruction pretty well without much prompting from myself. Needless to say, it was pretty dissapointing.

When I got the replacement in the mail I had to cool it with a smaller house fan until I went out and purchased a pci fan and placed it RIGHT NEXT to it.

So, no wonder they're pushing these big cooling rigs.......

--
Many Thanks,

Luke

Re:On the Subject of Sapphire Cards by evilviper · 2003-07-27 22:30 · Score: 1

Be smart, don't give in to the computer heat-ocracy. I go out of my way to buy videocards that don't have fans on them... That's how I know it doesn't run very hot.

If they want to push anything, they should push devices that run a LOT cooler (even if they are more expensive). Forget about global warming, I'm concerned with home warming... I don't want my house to be 150F degrees just because I leave my computer running.

No wonder Apple is doing so well.

--
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant

Re:whoo pie... by TheNetAvenger · 2003-07-27 13:00 · Score: 1

nothing like feeding hits to another boring hardware review.... yes, there are heatpipes, no doubt mfgr's wills start to use them....

old and boring news, move along people...

The sad part is that heat pipe technology has been used in laptops for a LONG time now, and quite effectively for CPU and GPU cooling.

It is strange the the desktop board manufacturers are just now finding them to be an asset.

My Geforce4 440 laptop is virtually silent 99.9% of the time, and even when it hits load and heat increases, the auxiallary fan turns on for only a few seconds - and then it still is not any louder than someone exhailing. The DVD spinning is louder.

And this is an average laptop, but performs faster than many desktops, hitting 6000 on 3D2001 Mark.

Why Desktops are still SO loud is just amazing with the technology that IS available.

Ok, my two cents...

Re:Too bad ATI doesn't support linux by TheNetAvenger · 2003-07-27 13:09 · Score: 1

In competing for the x-box, ati cancelled all support for linux.

Shit company, shit people, shit product

Actually, there was no competing... Microsoft killed off any chance of NVidia being in the XBOX2 after NVidia tried to milk them for more money when console prices dropped.

(After Microsoft had giving NVidia a ton of cash to develop the next generation Geforce GPU technology that they not only used in the XBOX, but got to package and put the the technology in the Geforce3 and future versions.)

Like I said before, if you are using a Geforce3 or newer NVidia card, Microsoft's bankroll from the XBOX project is the money that supported the creation of the technology in your card.

So NVidia, not only got money from the GPUs in the XBOX, they got DEVELOPMENT money that made all their products better. Double dipped from MS and the XBOX.

So ATI didn't drop Linux to get the XBOX contract, NVidia gave it to them.

GeForce FX 5200 is cheaper, as quiet, but weaker by Thag · 2003-07-27 14:09 · Score: 1

I got my Gainward FX 5200 for around $89. It too is passively cooled, but 3D performance is just above GeForce 2 levels. FWIW, it supports DirectX 9.

It also runs ok under Mandrake 9.1, though you have to use the text install.

Note that the passively cooled is plain old FX 5200, not FX 5200 ultimate, which has a buzzy fan.

Jon Acheson

--
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.

Re:Why would I want to make LESS noise? by toddestan · 2003-07-27 14:51 · Score: 1

Some people also like the noisy harddisk drives because they can hear when read/writes are taking place along with seeing the blinking LED. I really don't care too much for them myself. I can't hear the drives over all the fans anyway.

Re:Umm I dunno ... by PygmySurfer · 2003-07-27 15:45 · Score: 1

The GeForce 4 4200 has a much slower fan then the newer cards, though.

I'm not sure about the newest Radeon cards, but the fan on the GeForce FX line is apparently quite loud. Saphire must think the new Radeons are rather loud also, since they've developed this solution.

I have one in my system! by Ianworld · 2003-07-27 17:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

I love my "silent" computer. It isn't totally silent but the fans in the TV entertainment systems are louder than it.

The mainstay was getting a silent case(Antec Sonata-Highly recomended) and powersupply. The case has some sound reducing material in the front and a quiet power supply. Using a large heat sink on the processor and a low RPM fan i keep my CPU very cool. I put the Zalman VGA cooler on my 9500 pro and it not only runs great, but actually it also runs cooler.

The only case fan i have is a large low rpm fan out the back. It all runs like a charm and seems to always be lower than room temperature. (Damn AC is on the opposite side of the apartment.)

ATI state of linux support by 2ms · 2003-07-27 17:25 · Score: 1

So what's the latest on the relationship between ATI and linux? For a while there I recall the word being that ATI cards finally had feature complete support under linux, but then I think I heard that that was gonna end. Things were looking good there when they got a bunch of veteran, elite Unix driver writers with the purchase of the Fire GL company, but what's the latest?

I have no use for only partial support because then ATI card will be slower than Nvidia card in linux so just buy Nvidia card in first place.

Re:ATI state of linux support by Pulzar · 2003-07-28 01:22 · Score: 1

Linux and XFree86 Information

--
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.

Not really having to do with Gfx Cards... by Slime-dogg · 2003-07-27 17:50 · Score: 1

Did anyone else notice that you had to log in to see the ads?

--
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.

Not correct, I suspect. by Haeleth · 2003-07-28 00:44 · Score: 1

A few years back I thought that about hard disks. An IDE hard disk cost £100, period, unless you wanted to pay a huge premium for a slightly bigger one, and that stayed the same while they grew from 500 Mb to 20 Gb. Now a hard disk costs £50.

Expect the same to happen with graphics cards. Not only will the current high-end cards get cheaper - their successors will probably be slightly cheaper in real terms than the current range are now. The cost of production _will_ most likely fall faster than the technology improves, particularly once diminishing returns start setting in.

PCI Slot isn't a problem. by thePancreas · 2003-07-28 04:53 · Score: 1

The PCI slot closest to the AGP slot isn't really used that much these days. See since the GeForce 256 came along and (most other AGP cards) the first slot was recommended by manufacturers to stay empty as it caused some conflicts.

This may have changed but I never put anything in that first slot anymore. How many PCI devices do you need in a gaming rig anyway?

--
I went to battle MC Escher, but drew a blank

Re:PCI Slot isn't a problem. by PgDn · 2003-07-28 07:22 · Score: 1

While all this true (I don't use a single PCI slot on my Machine [gotta love asus]) I am just saying that when the fx series came out it everyone pointed to that fact which I thought was absurd much as a I do now the blower on the model card looked cool to bad it was a really noisy card.

Re:Why would I want to make LESS noise? by brakk · 2003-07-28 07:54 · Score: 1

That's a good idea, why not just stick a leaf blower into the back of your PC. That should keep everything cool.

Re:Good luck getting anything above 7200 runnning by TheNetAvenger · 2003-07-30 02:23 · Score: 1

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why this dipshit company (ati) is prevalent on slashdot.

Ok, and this anger is coming from what stock loss?

I have used both ATI and NVidia for many years.

Why ATI has 'respect' is they were one of the first companies to offer a low cost 'graphics accelerated' video card with the ATI Vantage back in 1991 that supported 8bit accelerated video and was a low cost alternative to the IBM 8514 XVGA accelerated standard at the time.

Back when NVidia was, well, what were they...

I am not sure why you replied this to my post, nor am I am going to debate which company is better or makes better products.

I have ATI cards in some computers, and NVidia cards in other computers. (And I am talking about my home, not our test labs)

The theater room has a ATI All In Wonder card in the server that controls the projection and sound systems. My laptop has an NVidia Geforce4 440Go. And I bought BOTH intentionally for the features they offered at the time.

Geesh...

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