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Buying a New TV?
Bob Bitchen asks: "I have had the current TV set for 10+ years and really haven't put any thought into a new one. The current set is having some problems and I'm thinking of getting a new larger set or possibly a projector, with a budget of $1000. What's the best thing to get these days? HDTV ready might be nice but it's not mandatory. I don't know enough about the projector technology to feel comfortable about buying them but I might be convinced, if I hear from enough converts. Do the projectors perform as well as conventional displays? If I do go with a conventional display TV, what models are preferred and why? I am also looking for some good sites for comparing and learning more about the current state-of-the-art in televisions. I found a good site for projectors but haven't found a similar site for TVs."
..."can't go wrong with a Sony".
Obviously try-before-you-buy, but my 5 year old Sony is still a great, great TV.
Personally, I'd be wary of HDTV until it shakes down a bit more...but that's just me.
-psy
HDTV is not worth spending you money right now.
Look at the GE TVs. They are cheap and will last until HDTV standards are stabilized.
OK, stay away from the "Dick Tracy"-style of wristwatch TV...they aren't good and there is no place to plug in cable.
Also, colour is now available so you don't have to see everything in black and white.
Make sure you get one with more than 13 channels...somebody told me there is more.
Remember to pay your license fee that you MUST do if you own & watch the tele.
Use rabbit ears to pick up stations a long distance away (called "DX"), but don't use real rabbits or else the blood will obscure your view of the tube.
Thanks for listening.
Thomas Farnsworth
.. I'd spend maybe $200-$300 for a TV and the rest on a sound system + TiVo.
:)
Not sure if that gives you much to think about, but considerations are always good.
It all depends with projectors on the amount of time you'll spend with it on - they do have a limited bulb life, and the bulbs are expensive to replace.
;-)
A conventional (tube) TV set can run for many thousands of hours without any appreciable drop in output / quality. Most projectors have a 2000 hour bulb life (or less).
There! That's my share of FUD against projectors done! Please feel free to correct me if you think differently
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
I can't imagine spending $1000 on a monitor that doesn't even come with a mouse or keyboard.
I suggest putting $1000 into your IRA instead!
While I sympathize with your economic situation, usually 17 year olds living in their parents' basement aren't supposed to have $1000 to spend on a TV. Okay, so I'm 19, and I'm about to move out, and I already own a complete home theater including DLP projector.. but that's not the rule. Just because you don't have $1000, doesn't mean you should complain someone else does. There is a remedy to your situation. If you are unemployed, take a job at the supermarket. If you have a crappy job, learn new skills in your spare time so you'll have a way to pitch yourself to a new employer. If you really are 17 and living at home, stop complaining. Otherwise, make your life better.
Anyhow, how do you know the guy hasn't already been to China? A TV will last 10 years or more. A 1 week vacation to china will last 1 week, but those intenstinal parasites you'll carry around for a lifetime. Or, you could get SARS. I bet that's why airfare's so cheap.
A solution to the problem with music today
They do a nice 30" HDTV-ready 16:9 ratio unit for a little over $1,000, I think it's the 3096 / 3097 / 3098 model numbers, but they may have changed. Cambridge Soundworks usually has one set up in their stores. If you already have a surround-sound system, get the *97 (2 tuner, more home theater tweaks than the *96, but without the built in sub-woofer, which you won't be needing).
But really, so long as you're not being dirt cheap, you can't go too far wrong with a Sony Wega.
HDTV standards are stabilized. HDTV is awesome. All stations in my area broadcast digital SDTV or better. I'd recommend an HDTV tuner card in an HTPC, with a projector. It'll be a little bit more than $1000, but the improved screen size and picture detail over a conventional TV are definitely worth it.
If you're buying a TV now, unless your room is very small, it's definitely worth going for a projector or an HDTV capable set, if it's within your budget. Generally, if you do the ceiling mount and screen yourself (which even the most well-monied individuals can enjoy doing as a refreshing change), a mid-range projector will cost less than HDTV tubes, plasmas, and RPTV's. I personally use an XGA DLP projector, and while the rainbows (it's an older DLP model; newer ones are much better) were mildly annoying at first, I'm very satisfied with the purchase.
A solution to the problem with music today
I wouldn't reccomend getting a projection TV if you are planning on hooking up a newer gaming console such as a PS2 or Xbox, they will most likely damage it. (Look for warnings in your console's manual.)
You took the words right out of my mouth. Rock on!
I've seen Airfare to Vietnam from San Francisco for $300, roundtrip
Health insurance doesn't cover vaccinations required for leisure trips. It costs a lot more to travel out of the US to Asia then $1000 when you account for all the other fees. Then, when you get back you'll still have to spend something on entertainment. $1000 isn't much to spend on a time-sink that will last for 10+ years. Besides, it's probably good for you to be a couch potato once in a while. Let's face it; even at $1000, a television is cheap entertainment compared to travel.
Okay, so I'm 19, and I'm about to move out, and I already own a complete home theater including DLP projector.. but that's not the rule
Look bucko, in your wealthy world, maybe every 19 year old has his own home theater system. But out here in the rest of the world, mom and dad don't pay our bills anymore, we go to school, get a good education, work our ass off, get laid off, and still find ways to pay the rent.
I'm also aware at the completely materialist & wasteful additude of alot of slashdotters. Some poor young SOBs SOB worked their ass off so you could have that Television which you don't need. Good to know your priorities are in order.
You're obviously a rich kid who doesn't hasn't spent much time on his own, otherwise you wouldn't be talking like that. You probabably couldn't survive a week without help from mommie & daddy. You'll be weened, and that's good, but watch your additude.
A TV will last 10 years or more. A 1 week vacation to china will last 1 week
It's the memories that last a lifetime, dipshit. Obviously you haven't had many life moments worth remembering, or you'd realize that. PERHAPS YOU'RE WATCHING TOO MUCH TELEVISION.
but those intenstinal parasites you'll carry around for a lifetime. Or, you could get SARS. I bet that's why airfare's so cheap.
Actually, that IS why the airfare is so cheap, because chickenshits like you don't understand that your risk of getting SARS is close to nothing. Intestinal parasites? Wash your hands, eat cooked food from clean places and you'll be fine. If not, usually some antibiotics will do the trick.
First of all, Audio Review can be a useful site for all kinds of home theatre gear. They don't have a lot of the latest models, but it can give you a good idea of the best brands etc.
Second of all, there's a whole bunch of terminology you may want to become familiar with. First off, connections. You want component video inputs. For that price, you shouldn't have a problem getting a set with component video. It's seperates the signal into more discrete parts reducing interference greatly.
100Hz is really nice. It gives you a rock solid picture, that you can stare at for hours. It's not essential but for the price you're looking at, you can probably get a nice one.
Progressive scan means it draws the entire frame, every frame. Normal television is interlaced - it draws the odd lines one frame, and even frames the next. These translate into the "p" and "i" you see at the end of picture modes. What are picture modes I hear you cry?
Standard American broadcasts use NTSC (as does Japan). That has 480 lines of displayed resolution. So 480i is what you're used to seeing. Progessive scan output (from some DVD players and digital set-top boxes, and interpolated on some TVs from regular transmission), is called 480p. Remember, 'p' is better than 'i'.
Next up is PAL (used in Australia and UK). PAL is 576 lines. So if you're in PAL territory, try and get a TV that does 576p.
If you're in NTSC territory, 576p probably isn't that important. Similarly 480p isn't much used to the PAL folk.
Next up are the High-definition modes. There are two different HDTV modes: 720p and 1080i. It's arguable which one is better, though I'd favour 720p. Ideally, if you're going for HDTV, get a set that supports both. Different places around the world don't necessarily support both resolutions either - check for your area. The other thing worth knowing is that the XBox is the only console with HDTV output. Not that many support 720p though and a even less supporting 1080i. At around the $1000 mark, I think you're probably looking at a standard (CRT) television. You probably won't get HDTV for that price, but you probably will get a nice 100Hz, progressive-scan capable display. And go the widescreen. I'm regretting making my last TV a 4:3 (tech-talk for standard ratio), now that I have digital television. Lastly, if you're a bit of a junky when it comes to these things, get as many inputs as you can. Unless you're going to get an AV receiver (which typically only swap 2 sets of component video), you'll want to be able to plug in lots of stuff.
Refuse to make a statement in your sig!
The research I've been doing is in the $4000 range and I've decided on DLP.
There is no "burn-in" and the consoles are significantly thinner (not plasma thin, but thinner than traditional rear projection units.) The picture is pretty awesome at all angles and the technology is really cool.
Info on DLP concept.
A vendor (Pricey, but informative.)
Rumors are around that sub-$1000 DLP systems will be out by the end of the year.
A know bulbs that blow up after a mere 1500 hours.
That's 250 days at 6 hours a day. And you'd probably want to stockpile a bunch of bulbs because:
1) You wouldn't be able to find any bulbs anywhere to buy.
2) even if you do find a source of bulbs they will want to extort the money out of ya.
Further FUD to consider:
1) You need a good wall to project onto. When you move houses this might be a problem.
2) The fans on them can be quite noisey.
3) You really need to hang them from the ceiling.
4) You might need to run a long video cable to the projector, and so end up with signal loss issues.
5) All your idiot friends will make up shadow puppets.
Do you just watch regular broadcast TV? Are there enough HDTV broadcasts in your area that you're interested in to even bother with an HDTV set? Do you watch a lot of DVDs? The answers to these questions will help you narrow down your list.
If you watch a lot of DVDs, you'll probably want a widescreen set. That'll shoot up the price.
If you want to watch a lot of HDTV broadcasts, same thing, but with a further question: what HDTV spec (there are several) are the broadcasters in your area broadcasting in? Broadcasters are kind of split on whether to broadcast in 720p or 1080i. I'd rather watch 720p over 1080i, but too many people don't understand the difference between progressive and interlaced, and just assume the higher number means it's better. Feh.
How big a screen are you thinking about? There's a world of difference in price between a really good 27" set and a 36" flat-tube screen. Even between a 32" and a 36" can be a big price difference, depending on other features.
What I find annoying is that noone seems to be making intermediate TVs. I want a widescreen flat-tube 36" TV that goes up to 480p. No speakers. PIP (picture in picture) would be nice, too. But the thing is, there seems to be a plateau at a regular NTSC TV, and then it steps up to HDTV specs, with the attendant price increase. I just want to watch good DTV broadcasts and DVDs in full 480p mode (that's the max that DVDs can do - they don't even match low-end HDTV specs, sad to say). And what's with all the high-end tv with speakers? People who buy high-end TVs don't use the crappy built-in speakers - they're hooked up to a decent sound system.
TV manufacturers are downright _weird_ about some things.
If he'd rather have a TV than a trip to Timbuktu, then how is that being wasteful? Maybe we should analyze all of your purchases to see if you're buying things that we think are wasteful.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
- Don't buy it over the Internet. If you do and it dies, you'll waste months fighting with the support people for TiVo and for whatever label you bought it under. Instead, go to a local merchant and make sure there's an understanding that you can get a replacement unit right away if the first one dies.
- Get an extended warrantee. I usually consider this a ripoff (if your gadget is reliable, an EW is a bad value, and if it isn't, why are you buying it?), but for a Tivo this actually makes sense.
Also, note that a Tivo's price doesn't include a subscription, even though the device is pretty useless without one. A lifetime subscription is a better value (it costs less than 2 years of the monthly subscription) but there *are* those hardware issues...If you're lucky, nothing will go wrong and your enjoyment of TV will go up drastically. (Tivos aren't just convenient, they're wonderful for digging up shows you always meant to watch, or would want to watch if you'd ever heard of them.) If you're not lucky, the damn thing will go psychotic. Which is survivable, if you're prepared for it.
Yeesh, we don't know anything about this guy's finances, maybe he can afford to buy the TV and still go to China afterwards. We didn't all lose our jobs when the bubble burst, there are still people for whom a thousand dollars is not a life changing amount of money.
I may look wistfully back at the days when my stock options were worth a couple of extra zeroes, but I bet I spend a fair bit more than that when I finally go buy a new TV (been meaning to for years, I bought a half decent Sony a few days after graduation just to have something other than the 11" deal that lived in my bedroom through college), and I won't have to live on Raman to do it. And if we can't talka bout expensive geek toys on Slashdot, where can we?
Ok, I have spent some time doing this recently at home. Spent a heap of money but I am sure my experiance will be good for your more limited budget.
If you are going to go for a projector make sure the room is DARK. And I mean REAL DARK, like only watch movies at night or with blackout curtains. This may not be an issue if you have a tv room specific for watching tv, but it can be a pain normallly.
Be warned that there are two kinds of projectors floating around, Data projectors and Home Theater projectors. You definately want the second kind. Data projecters often have specs that look amazing (high res, very bright etc) but the colour quality SUCKS. They ghost lots on fast movement and are definately not something to watch tv or movies on.
The other thing to consider is that for $1000 you are not going to get a really amazing projector, I think you will be dissapointed by the brightness and quality of the picture. Projectors really improve as you throw money at them.
Limited bulb life of projectors is an issue too. It is many hundreds to replace a burned bulb and they typically last 2000 hours.
Ok, so after all that I think you should look for a nice tube tv. Make sure it has the following things:
* Widescreen format (16:9). I know lots of TV is not in widescreen now but it will be in future and most DVD's are. You don't want to be pissed off watching everything in a letterbox. Now is NOT the time to buy an old style 4:3 tv.
* component video input. Seperates the colours into different cables, greatly improves the picture quality and is essential when connecting a good dvd player.
* 100Hz. Faster refresh rate, the picture looks much sharper and clearer, easier on the eyes.
European TV's normally have all the above features, but they often are more than $1000. Look for Metz, Loewe and Grundig.
Hope that helps!
Your best bet is to do some real research rather than relying upon the anecdotal experiences of Slashdot readers and friends.
Consumer Reports tends to review televisions every few months. Their most recent comprehensive review (27-36 inches, HD-ready, and projection) was in the March 2003 issue. Perhaps your local library has a copy? They also have most of their content online at www.consumerreports.org for a $4.95 monthly subscription ($24 per year).
If you're considering spending $1000, it's worth spending $5 on research.
My advice: Go with a flat tube. IMO they give the best picture for the money. They give a nicer picture than both the curved tubes and the projection TVs. Sure, they don't look as nice as the LCDs and plasma screens, but they are a whole lot cheaper. I'd avoid flat panels in the sub $1000 range. They are too small, and I've heard anecdotally that they have a shorter lifespan than tube TVs. I haven't used a video projector in several years, so I can't give much opinion on them.
I bought a 27" flat tube Sony about 6 months ago for about $500. If I had $1000 to blow on a TV, I'd either go with a slightly larger Sony, or maybe a widescreen flat tube if I could find one in that price range.
Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television
- NextVision N6
by Viewsonic
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Sony SXGA LCD monitor
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Sony stereo system
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video/audio cables
The NextVision N6 will convert any HDTV or SDTV signal into an RGB video signal and an audio signal that can be connected to a nice LCD monitor and a high-quality stereo, respectively. Furthermore, the NextVision N6 has a built-in SDTV tuner, so you can immediately start watching standard NTSC television programs.While you enjoy your time shopping for this equipment, please remember that when you buy products made in a particular country, you indirectly support the value system of that country. So, please avoid products that are made in China (which includes Taiwan and Hong Kong). At Amnesty International and Tibet Online, you can find plenty of reasons to avoid products "Made in China" (which includes "Made in Taiwan" and "Made in Hong Kong").
The ATSC standard may be stabilized but the receivers are still a work in progress. Most of them have problems with sensitivity, multipath and software bugs. Receiver designs are still in flux. The biggest problem is how to cope with dynamic multipath. There are locations that receive strong ATSC signals where no commercially available receiver can successfully decode the signal.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
If the TV channels you watch use permanent on-screen logos (DOGs, idents, whatever) then once you've narrowed down your list of TV choices you should check-up on how prone each of them is to so-called "logo burn". Some sets are much more vulnerable than others, especially rear-projection.
Monitors have screensavers, TVs generally don't, and if (for example) you're watching a news channel for an hour, with a logo constantly displayed in the corner of the screen, you could soon find that there's a "shadow" permanently burned on your screen. This will interfere with the rest of your viewing as the colour in that area of the screen will always be distorted.
Note that some TV manufacturers do warn about their sets being prone to logo burn, but these warnings are only made in the small-print of the manual, which of course you will only read after you've bought the set, if at all.
Check these pages for some brief info...
Watching TV is bad for your set!
Screen Burn (LogoFreeTV campaign)
Example picture #1
Example picture #2
Get a cheap NTSC TV today and wait a few years. Future sets will include tuners that can decode ATSC (HDTV) and digital cable. They will also have CRTs with better resolution than NTSC. LCD flat panel TVs will also be much cheaper.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
My TV is about a decade old, too. I have, after careful consideration, determined that an LCD projector (2500+ Lumens) seems to be the best long-term, easily transportable choice. Has anyone deployed an LCD projector (or DMD) as their TV? How is it? Did you use a screen or the wall?
epinions.com try it. maybe look at avsforum.com as the majority of that community is really into home theater.
a slut did tulsa
I have spent a lot of time on this and ended up compromising and buying two TVs. Most made for TV material is 4:3 and shot for a small screen. If you watch that material on a big screen it is really going to look bad as you stare up news reader's noses and the likes. A small set (21-25") is ideal for that sort of casual watching material. It is still worth getting a good set though but HDTV ready is not necessary. You will need to use a calibration DVD (eg Video Essentials) to pick a set that will actually give you good flesh tones etc. I bought a 21" Sony, got into the factory settings menu and reset it to give a more natural picture. Sony (as do many others) set the colour temp far too high so you end up with a very blue picture which might look impressive but is rather unrealistic. With that I am all set for watching standard definition material.
:-)
:-D
For movies I bought a single chip DLP projector (InFocus X1) which is the best bang for the buck at the moment. Fully multistandard, calibrates wonderully and is very bright and clear. The video scaler and deinterlacer are excellent too extracting 24fps from NTSC LDs with 3:2 pulldown eliminating judder. Resolution of the DLP is only 800x600 but that is ample for all current DVDs and even in 16:9 mode where it compresses the picture down vertically it still looks clear. A true 16:9 projector would have a little more resolution but brightness and colour correctness make up for this small deficiency, and cost (about $1500). Oh, and it will accept HDTV signals although it downconverts. Once HD is really cooking this projector will be ready to retire anyway so not to worry.
Lessons to live by:
Buy Video Essentials, practice with it until you can get a really nice picture, try several sets, it takes time to get used to it but you will learn which TVs can be calibrated and which can't.
Don't be swayed by the brightest punchiest picture in the shop. Quite likely a TV with that default setting is running a very high colour temp and also the tube is liable to burn. A calibrated picture looks dark and dull at first but once you get used to it you will never go back. Room lighting is also important, TVs are not designed to be used in brightly lit rooms, control the light, especially that shining on the screen.
Avoid LCD TVs like the plague, the scalers in them are very poor and they have poor contrast and black level, plus they cost a fortune for what is really a very small and muddy picture. They are a very poor substitute for plasma screens.
Plasma TVs are for people who like to show off. Very few produce an acceptable picture, and those that do cost a lot. For the money you would spend on one of them you can have a nice little direct view and a huge projection system. My set up currently has a 100" screen but I want something bigger. It cost less than half the price of a decent plasma screen and the picture is 3x bigger.
LCD projectors are better than they used to be but DLP is much better and about the same money. The InFocus X1 can be had for less than $1500 which is amazing value, particularly as it has a built in Faroudja deinterlacer.
For CRTs, make sure that the picture is stable when there is a strong flashing image (Video Essentials includes the necessary tests and instructions). Nothing worse than a TV where the picture bends and pulses when Arnie blows s**t up
Back projection CRTs are OK but very bulky, imagine what your room will be like when the thing is not turned on. It will be like sharing a room with the monolith out of 2001 and you're back to staring up people's noses. Once all TV is shot assuming large screens as movies are then this won't be a problem. As I said, my solution is to have a small set for small screen stuff and a big screen for big screen movies. Cost is more than your budget but you might be able to find ex-demo or secondhand projectors on E-bay and it is well worth it.
Of course, you could just avoid all this and buy the first set that you like the look of, but that wouldn't be the slashdot way now would it?
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
Have one for your bedroom and one for your living room/ company - you'd be surprised at how handy and space saving these new 3 in 1's are. Also MAKE SURE what ever TV you get that it has front av inputs. Nice for a digital camera or hooking up a laptop on the fly. Some TV's (just not in the $1000 price range) have DVI hookups.
I'd go with glass for this reason and you can see if you have the same need. I have just about ALL the light gun games ever made for home video game consoles - I WILL NEVER give up a way to play Point Blank (1,2,3) or Duck Hunt. To me, these games and Tetris are the ONLY playable video games. SO, if you ever want to play a light gun based game, at least you can with a glass tube TV, you can't with a projection, plasma, or LCD.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
I bought a new HD projection TV a little while back, here are the things I realized once it was here:
Depending on the size you get, make sure that the room you plan on putting it in is big enough. If there isn't enough space between your primary viewing location and the tv, you're going to be overwhelmed. Mine is 50", my living room is ~12' wide. I ended up having to rearrange everything in my living room so that the tv was against one wall and the couch against the opposite wall. I could still use a few extra feet.
Make sure you can block most of the sunlight coming into the room that you can put it in. My tv will auto adjust the picture based upon the ambient light in the room. Even still, the image looks the best when the room is fairly dark.
A projection tv can cause problems depending on your viewing habits. If there are typically one or two people watching the tv from directly in front of it, you're fine. If you typically have friends over, you may have trouble with your viewing angle, depending on how the furniture is set up.
Widescreen HD projection screens are still projection. That means they still have some problems with burn in. Normal signals will appear with a black band on either side of the image. Apparently, these black bands can burn into the screen. This means you have to do some type of morphing of the image to make it full screen. This degrades the image of most broadcast stations. The tradeoff is natively formatted widescreen. However, many DVD's don't have the same ratio as the TV. This means you will still have bands, albeit smaller ones, on the top and bottom.
Check your area for HD offerings via digital cable. It is far cheaper to pay ~$10 extra on your cable bill a month than buying an expensive over the air tuner. My cable company offers a few channels (about 6), but there are more coming online all the time.
Also, some regular broadcast stations end up looking worse on my 50" HD than my 27" normal tube. This depends on the resolution of the cameras and the broadcast. Any deficiencies become exaggerated. Last year's Super Bowl was hyped that it would be done in all HD. For the most part, everything looked fine. Fine until they switched to their low-res on the field cameras. The images were terrible and almost unwatchable.
Make sure you do your research before buying. Research brands and models and look for any reports of problems with the ones you are considering. I did this before buying mine as was shocked at the number and severity of things being reported. The model I ended up buying had no negative reports, and I've had no problems, although your mileage may vary.
Hope this is useful to someone...
There are a number of articles and how-to's on just about every aspect of TVs including flat-panels and HDTV over at www.crutchfieldadvisor.com.
I would start with the Choosing a TV learning center article and check out the HDTV Center as well.
(Disclaimer: I am associated with Crutchfield, but there's honestly some of the best information anywhere located there)
Check to make sure that you're in an area with decent HD coverage.
This is pretty much any major metropolitan area except for NYC (Due to 9/11 knocking out all but one of the HD transmitters there.)
If you have a signal, HD is well worth it. Note: Even without an HD signal, an "HD-ready" TV with composite inputs can make for an AMAZING PC monitor for gaming, etc. In my case, I don't have an actual HDTV, I just feed my 18" LCD on my desktop using an HDTV tuner card in my PC. Sadly, I live in the NYC area which means only CBS and Fox for the time being.
The picture quality is worth it, even if you only use a PCI HDTV card and a good PC monitor. If you like CSI, think SERIOUSLY about getting HD, you don't know what you're missing out on until you've watched CSI in 1080i HD.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Ok, this is ridiculous.
A 'typical wasteful American'. He's got a ten year old telvision that's having some problems. He's not talking about going out and buying a top of the line set -- he's not even talking about spending money on a moderately sized rear screen projection television. He's talking about a reasonably priced medium level television.
Maybe he doesn't like to travel. Maybe he doesn't have time to travel. Maybe he has a wife and four kids and the low fare suddenly gets rather expensive. (Not to mention that airfare is usually one of the cheapest parts of the trip. Priced hotels, rental cars, and restaurant food lately?)
This guy asked a simple question, and he gets slammed because he wants to replace a ten year old television. Why can't people just answer or not answer the guy instead of making unwarrented assumptions about what he's like.
In other words, play nice kids.
Sean.
I moved into a new apartment a while back, and decided that my 19" Sharp TV wasn't cutting it anymore. I decided to upgrade. Here's what I did:
- TV standards are not finalized yet, and the deadline for ratification (IIRC) has been extended past 2006, the original due date. As such, thich means that there's several competing standards out there. The more standards a TV is compatible with, the more expensive it gets. Additionally, with people getting digital cable and satellite receivers, a TV doesn't really need a tuner, anyway -- all work is already done, all it gets is straight video signal.
- TV speakers can't really do justice to a movie that's got 5.1 surround sound in Dolby Digital / DTS. If you want to get the experience, separate your output: picture goes to TV, sound goes to a receiver + speakers.
Once I've reached these two conclusions, I decided to hold off on buying a new TV. Instead, I recycled a 26" Sony CRT TV set, bought a receiver and a set of speakers, and use my VCR as a tuner. VCR feeds A/V into receiver, receiver sends video to TV, audio to speakers. The receiver is now the hub of the entertainment system, so I made sure it had enough inputs and outputs for future growth (for now, all I have is a DVD player and a tape deck, but I have room for satellite / digital cable if need be, or another DVD player / VCR). Sound is phenomenal, even if only coming from broadcast TV / analog cable, thanks to CircleSurround feature of the receiver. Video is big enough that I can sit comfortably 10-15ft away and enjoy the show. And my receiver's remote control is programmable, so all my devices are controlled from one remote (except the tape deck, which didn't have one anyway). The receiver can do digital coax/optical audio-in, RCA/S-video/component video in, RCA/S-video-component video out, so when the day comes to upgrade the TV, I'll be set (and I'll upgrade my DVD player to one with component video out, too).
I think my setup will be good for another, oh, 10 years. I hope.
Have EVDO, will travel.
First off, if you want a good site for general home theater stuff, check out AVS Forums. You may end up wanting to spend more than your budget though :)
That said, I'd highly recommend you get a widescreen HDTV-compatible set. If you want to keep your TV around for as long (or longer) as your last set, you'll regret not getting HDTV. No, the switchover isn't going to happen in 2006. But it will happen, and you can receive HDTV in most areas now. Even without HD reception you'll get better DVD viewing, a huge computer monitor (if you want), and can get better visual quality out of most consoles.
Your choices are going to be rather limited at $1000, and I can't recommend any specific ones (I just bought a new TV set... but for considerably more than $1k... the Samsung HLN467W - 46" DLP widescreen), but there are some available. Do check out the menus. Check to see if it has discrete codes available, otherwise you'll want to kill yourself if you get a programmable remote (or, more likely, your SO will want to kill you because they can't operate the damn system). Check what inputs it has -- at this price point about the most you can hope for is one or two component inputs on the high end. You almost certainly won't get a VGA or DVI input.
If you don't go HD, then don't bother buying a TV bigger than about 32" -- which will be far, far below your budget. Big screen non-HD is just a waste of money.
You mention your specific budget in terms that infer 1 full expenditure. Have you thought about buying your TV on a store Credit Card? Most stores (BestBuy, Sears etc) will balance a $4000 Plasma to ~$90pm for 4 years.
This will future greatly proof your investment (at this price, includes the HDTV 720x). No i don't work for a big store but i am drooling over the Panasonic and Daewoo 42" Plasmas for a personal Xmas present. My budget matches yours. I am also looking at a Sony XBR32" for ~$800 online. No idea what condition you'll get it in tho' !
...just a few months ago. It was going to be a nice Sony VEGA 1080i jobber at 40" diagonal. Except then I realized it wouldn't fit in my pretty-large-already entertainment center. I would have to get a new one. This meant dealing with unhooking everything, unloading all the DVDs, CDs, etc. stored in it, then moving the beast, selling it (or Goodwill), etc. The final clincher was that I decided it wasn't worth it for the crap available on TV. The only thing that keeps me watching is digital cable, and only because IFC, SUND, STARZ and a few others show non-blockbusters (e.g. crap) fairly regularly. Oh, and HBO. Gotta watch Kristin Davis on Sex in the City :)
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Typical DLP projector bulbs run around $400. And we buy in quantity!
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Yes, but $1000 can buy a lot of cheap booze and hookers!
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Did you look at epinions.com?
I realize that lots of people like Ask Slashdot because they feel that they're pretty similar to the average Slashdot reader, but there is a wider audience out there. Epinions is a site where you can search for many parameters, like brand or price, or features, and see what fellow consumers have recommended.
I wrote a little description of the TV I bought a while ago here.
As with anything where you ask for people's opinions, I find it helpful to find the harshest critics and decide if you side with them or discount their ideas. Many times, in epinions and in real life, the people with the worst criticism complain about features something doesn't have as if they didn't read the product description, or how unreliable it is when it's treated abnormally ("Sony VCRs suck because one broke when my son dropped it off my roof" kind of things). If, however, you find people complaining about how the product doesn't perform as advertised, or how it fails in normal circumstances, you know it really is bad.
I've had a real mixed bag of experiences with Sony products. My Sony monitor was a total piece of shit. Good tube, but shitty electronics. And my walkmans and discmans never seemed to last. On the other hand I've been very happy with my Sony VEGA TV. I think the thing I like best is the special 16:9 mode, where it compresses the scanlines vertically, so you can watch your movies in wide-screen mode without losing any vertical resolution. Pretty nifty.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
DON'T buy a widescreen Sony TV if you don't like buzzing noises whilst watching at lower volumes.
I wish I hadn't bought mine late last year. I'm just coming to the end of 6 months of waiting for Sony to decide what to do with my 28" 100hz widescreen TV which has been sitting in the shop all this time.
Shortly after buying it, I asked the dealer to sort out an annoying buzz that was coming from the deflector yoke and was annoying when watching TV at lower volume levels. After six months of stalling, Sony finally decided to repurchase the television since they seem to have decided that they are unable to supplying me one that doesn't have the aforementioned loud enough to be annoying buzzing sound. Apparently, all their larger widescreen TVs do this. Sounds to me like a quality control issue.
If you're the sort of person that likes to watch stuff that has quieter scenes as well as loud hollywood action, my advice is to stay away from a Sony.
If you want to keep your budget under $1,000 you can pretty much forget about a projector. I don't think you will find one that is high quality enough to make it worth it.
I would not worry about getting an HDTV because you won't find many under $1,000, but may be able to find an HDTV ready set at 32" or 36". The biggest advantage is not so much that they are HDTV ready but that because they are they have more lines of resolution than just a normal set. For normal TV or cable viewing this will not mean much, but when you pop in a DVD you will definately see the difference.
The last two things that I think are essential are flat screen and a 3 line digital filter. If you get a decent flat screen it will most likely have the 3 line digital filter.
Like the fist poster said, you can't go wrong with a Sony...especially the Wega. You can probably get either a 32" HDTV ready or a 36" standard Wega. I would not worry about 16:9 TV's unless you watch a hell of a lot of DVD's, otherwise you just end up watching either distored regular TV or you got to 4:3 and lose about 1/3 of your screen.
You're off-topic AND you passed up a stupid pun
1. Contact a lawyer about a living will.
2. Kiss all your loved ones farewell.
3. Dive into a pool of liquid nitrogen.
4. When they thaw you out, you'll get a free HDTV set with a magazine subscription.
Hey. It worked for pocket calculators. They used to cost--what--a hundred bucks when the minimum wage was $2.50?
What is the truth?
Please read "Fire-Breathing Dragon Burns Americans and Tibetans". In 2000 May, the Department of Justice identified Taiwan as an intelligence threat. Please read "Reno calls Taiwan an intelligence threat". Rules at the executive branch of the government prohibit the Justice Department and the FBI from commenting on why Taiwan has been added to the list of nations that pose a threat to American security. However, we at SlashDot can easily understand "why" when we see the facts: for example, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reports that the majority of spies who steal American military technology to give to Beijing actually were born and raised in Taiwan.
I use a Dell 2000FP 20" LCD. It has no TV tuner of its own, but it has VGA, DVI, composite and S-video inputs (which you have to manually switch on the front bezel). I use a VCR as my TV tuner.
The Dell.com price on it is $999.
I recently purchased an infocus X1 for $999. I had to order the composite 480i and composite 480p/720p/1080i cable from infocus for another $45.
I have been absolutely satisfied and that's projecting on a non-white speckled wall. I have projected on a matte white wall and the picture quality was good enough for me. Especially when you consider the portability. I used to own a 36" Sony. It weighed like 180lbs. projector, like 10lbs w/ about a 90" screen from 11ft.
The one probably may be fan noise. I mostly watch w/ headphones.
I will never buy another regular TV.
jason
We had sony trinitron vega and it was a good set, but I recently purchased a panasonic 27inch conventional TV (does 480i), while I was comparing the sony vega 27inch I could tell very little (if any) difference. The biggest difference was the price. The sony was almost 40% more then the panasonic. I just recommend you see the tv before you buy.
The Good Life
In that price range, you'll probably want to look for a Panaphonics, Magnetbox, or Sorny.
I seek out products made there, out of sympathy. It is a sovereign nation that is not officially recognized as such for the sole reason that a big bully next to it wants to take it over. The bully has coerced other countries into this non-recognition, although just about the entire world winks its eye and knows that Taiwan is not the eternal imperial property of mainland China.
Please do not quote Clinton administration "studies", as the Clinton administration was bribed with much illegal money from Taiwan's enemy. Of course they will say bad things about Taiwan.
I would suggest staying away from buying any Sony television.
My parents are friends of the owner of a Sony-only TV store in NC. They sell and repair them.
The owners of the store would never buy a Sony TV because they say half of them come back in for repair.
How ironic is that?
help fill in hidden movie endings @ End of the Credits
I've been looking for a new TV, too, among other things, and am frustrated by how difficult it is to find a good independent review of products. So, start with Consumer Reports: their top 2 rated projection TVs, the Panasonic PT-45LC12 and the Sony KP-51WS500 are both panned by the user reviews at cnet -- these are summary reviews by
UC Davis Transmeta
"Whether or not you're right -- don't talk to people like they're assholes. They probably don't deserve it."
Man! Mod this up as "+2 Righteous." This should probably appear at the very top of Slashdot's main page!!
Either that, or repeated at the bottom of the page instead of the pithy sayings that appear there now.
Life goes better when we're nice to each other.
Charlie Trie, John Huang, and Johnny Chung were the 3 key figures involved in bribing American officials. Johnny Chung was born and raised in Taiwan. John Huang was raised in Taiwan.
The submitter asked about a low-cost, high-quality replacement for a faulty 10-year old TV. You responded by calling him, in so many words, a materialistic, amoral, intellectually bankrupt pig.
I double-dog dare you to try that in the real world. Go to your nearest Best Buy, walk up to the first customer you see in the TV section, and without solicitation, repeat everything you said here. Be sure to report back to us if you manage to make it out of the store without somebody turning it into a punchup.
A bit of advice for you, kid. Before you hit Submit, ask yourself this question: How would this person react if I said this to their face? If you don't have the balls to say it in the real world, you probably shouldn't post it here.
This sig intentionally left blank.
Do not pass go. Do not collect your $200. Just go directly to www.avsforum.com. You will find separate sections for direct view, projection, and plasma tvs, HDTV receivers, recorders, programming, and local info and all with very detailed info. Any other site offering information on home theater equipment (including the likes of epinons and CU) pales in comparison to the sum total of info and knowledge you will find there. Personally I'm a plasma person and pro HDTV for abyone buying a set now but do some research there and you'll find what works for you and your budget.
Great ... a random keystroke posts gibberish from me on my first post to slashdot (elsewhere in this thread now).
Anyways, I find it difficult and frustrating that the reviews from different places differ by so much. The more research I do the more frustrated I get. Many times it keeps me from buying things, cause I can't figure out what to buy.
The top two rated projection TVs at Consumer Reports, the Panasonic 45LC12 and the Sony 57WS500 don't fare well in the user reviews at Cnet. The former is not recommeneded 32% of the time (19 users in survey), the latter 21% (14 users). Also, the Sony 51WS500 (which I was assuming is quite similar) is not recommended at Cnet 40% of the time (91 users).
Are there other sites people like and/or strategies they use to resolve discrepancies like this?
UC Davis Transmeta
Consumer Reports vs. C-Net/Amazon/Epinions/etc aren't really comparable in any meaningful sense.
Consumer Reports tests and compares all of the products themselves. They detail their methods, so that you can judge their adequacy. (For example, I don't make use of CR's computer reviews because their requirements don't match my own needs.)
Online sites, on the other hand, make use of a self-selected sample. Basically, it's just a group of people who love the product, hate the product, or just want to have their voice heard. Not the same thing at all.
It's also important to recognize that Consumer Reports tends to privilege value, functionality, and reliability. So it's not the place to go if you're looking for a high-end stereo system or something else that requires specific expertise. But most of the time, I just want good value for my money. In that situation, CR has never let me down.
I use Sony produced DirecTV receivers, incliding a Sony DirecTiVo upgraded to store 150 hours of TV. Going with a Sony TV means that I can always use just one remote.
I like the Panasonic and Sony televisions. I would personally spend $300 on a mid-line TV and worry about HDTV in a few years, but I'm trying to watch TV, not have a home theater.
I'm still using my 1986 RCA, my 1985 Zenith, and my knobby 1982 GE. I'd be happy just to step up to remote control let alone HDTV. But I'd say for that kind of budget, HDTV is an absolute must. You'll regret it later when everything is Hi-Def. Even PBS is going digital.
Yeah, but they also tell me not to play for more than an hour at a time lest I get "fatigued" (whatever that means) or have like a seizure or something.
Those warnings are straight CYA.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Pluses:
Cons: No major ones yet! Price: About $300 at a typical electronics store
This same set is available in other screen sizes, so if 20" is too small for you, check out the rest of the line.
i am a soviet space shuttle
Anyway
Why this is important: (IMHO)
When you watch DVDs or widescreen content, you can put the tv in widescreen mode and it will focus all the scanlines into the widescreen/letterbox area. So you get to have use of ALL of your horizontal lines to view widescreen, instead of WASTING 25% or more scanlines drawing black bars.
Some regular TVs also have this feature (I think the better Sony Vega's have it), but it's not as good because there aren't as many horizontal lines available.
The HDTV i got is the Samsung 27" TXM2796HF. ($535 floor model, $600 normally; but alas floor model because Samsung has moved on to newer models, so you probably won't be able to find this one. It got fairly good user comments on cnet.)
My reasoning for going 4:3 vs. 16:9 was: ... there are what 3 HD channels on DirecTV ? (which requires a new HD-receiver (~$300).) I don't know if you're lucky enough to even have HD broadcasts in your area.. we have *1* station, but we can't get a tv signal where we are anyway.. plus that requires an HD tuner box.. (more $$$; about $300)
1) price.. cheapest 16:9 was i think a 30" Samsung at $999. (most HDTVs are 30/32"+ and $1200+ anyway though)
2) distortion! 4:3 on a 16:9 tube will either DISTORT the image (everyone looks.. tall... like watching Conan or Red Sonja on TV), crop the image, or you'll burn in some vertical letterboxing (if the tv even provides this option).
I think 4:3 with a widescreen mode provides the best of both worlds (4:3 & 16:9); no distortion and no lost resolution for either).
3) there is not enough widescreen stuff out there now, nor will there be in the near future (IMO).
Even in the future, re-runs, old tv shows, all the current programming, your old videotapes, etc. will still be in 4:3 format.
I think it will be quite some time before MOST programs are in widescreen
By the time programming is the predominant format (7 years?) (not just widely available (3-4 years?) or even just available which it isn't really now) a better, widescreen HDTV will be (just like computers) cheaper then.
So (to me) widescreen will ONLY benefit you if you have HD channels you can watch (AND you watch them; currently only Showtime HD, HBO HD, Discovery HD) or if you watch a lot of DVDs.
Some other things to consider: ... which provide even bigger screen for the same price. And aren't quite as unwieldly heavy! (My 27" is 100lb. I imagine you're looking at 150-200lb or more for larger tube sets, HD or not. RPTVs typically have casters/wheels to move them around on..)
Go ahead and get HDTV now. An HDTV will still make current regular TV look better, scanline-doubling/filtering, etc. and you won't have an "obsolete" TV set to have to sell or take up landfill space later. You can upgrade the HDTV-ready with an HD-tuner/receiver box later when the FCC makes it mandatory to be built-in to new TV sets and this makes the external boxes cheaper.
If 27"/30"wide is too small.. anything bigger is also rear projection TV (RPTV) price range ($1200/1500+)
I'm also aware at the completely materialist & wasteful additude of alot of slashdotters. Some poor young SOBs SOB worked their ass off so you could have that Television which you don't need. Good to know your priorities are in order.
HAng on. He works hard, smart and long, to get a decent pay check, and decides to spend it how he wishes. What wrong with that? If he wants to burn it, thats fine, its his money. If you're getting laid off, and working too hard for too little pay, perhaps you should get a better job? Who are you to tell someone else what he should and shouldnt do? I'd ignore you for the prick you are if I wasnt in such a lazy mood drinking free beer, surfing the net, and getting paid for it.
> Consumer Reports vs. C-Net/Amazon/Epinions/etc aren't really comparable in any meaningful sense.
The best review site I can recommend is Consumer search. The check individual review sites and publications then aggregate the results, while also providing links to the original reviews ranked by "credibility ratings".
They do tend to rank CR at the top almost all the time but often the other publications provide additional insight.
Amazon and Epinions reviews are consistenly ranked at the bottom of the pack.
My own experience is that those sites are pretty good at weeding out the lemons but close to useless when deciding among decent to good alternatives.
For example, their TV review, they ranked the CR (3/2003) and CNet (24/3/2003) reviews as the best followed by a Home Theater (1/2003) review, then a bunch of lower-ranked ones. Amazon and Epinions close the list.
> The submitter asked about a low-cost, high-quality replacement for a faulty 10-year old TV. You responded by calling him, in so many words, a materialistic, amoral, intellectually bankrupt pig.
Er, no.
He did not respond to the submitter's post but rather to a grandchild (a reply to a reply) of that post.
> I double-dog dare you to try that in the real world.
I double-dog (whatever that means) dare you to try that in the real world. At best, you would be considered a kook.
> A bit of advice for you, kid. Before you hit Submit, [...]
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Look bucko, in your wealthy world, maybe every 19 year old has his own home theater system. But out here in the rest of the world, mom and dad don't pay our bills anymore, we go to school, get a good education, work our ass off, get laid off, and still find ways to pay the rent.
Look, I worked 8 hours a day for quite a while to save up the money for what I have. My laptop ($1.6G), desktop ($1.1G), and home theater ($2G+) I paid for myself. I don't come from a rich family; I worked for what I have. My parents work dang hard to provide for our large family. We hardly even see them sometimes. I don't mean to be inflammatory or insulting, but I don't accept people accusing me falsely. It's not impossible to make a living. Just calm down; keeping your cool will be a big help in job interviews. Oh, and when you get a job, donate at least 10% of your income to some worthwhile charity, to help balance out the universe.
A solution to the problem with music today
Agreed. CSI is one of the several shows broadcast with amazing quality in 1080i. The Tonight Show is also in HD, though sometimes technical problems at the local network affiliate force me to switch to the analog broadcast.
Even SDTV at 480i is better if the compression ratio isn't too high, because there's no more static or fuzzy images.
A solution to the problem with music today
The bulb lasts 3000 hours, or 4 hours everyday for 2 years. 4 hours may not seem like much, but remember some days you might be too busy to watch 4 hours of tv. A new bulb is ~$250 currently, but the price may be cheaper in 2 years.
Some people complain about needing a very dark room to see a projector. Remember that the closer the screen is to the projector the brighter the picture will be, so if brightness is a problem just move the projector closer to the screen. Might have to deal with "only" 55", but the ability to simply move the projector back a few feet and double the screen size is a nice capability. Here's a Lumen Guide that should help you decide how bright your projector should be, but according to the guide 1100 lumens should be enough for 72" with "windows open during daylight hours, lights that cannot be dimmed like in an open office settings".
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 72" TV for less than $1000 anywhere else.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
...have sex, or as in "carry over rough terrain".
I could _watch_ a 98 lb girl all night...make up your own joke using the word "remote".
I'm a firm believer in CRT tv. Sony 32XBR400 Wega is what I got. I'm very pleased with it. And you can always plug your DVD player into the 3 wire connectors and take advantage of HDTV resolution now. And down the pipe your cable box or satellite box will have the 3 wire interface on it. Who really uses a tuner anymore?
I would never buy a Sony because they are overpriced junk, but I'd also never buy a GE just because there are so many brands of the same price that ARE NOT junk - Philips/Magnavox, Sanyo, etc. Just find one that looks good, use the remote to turn it ALL THE WAY UP and watch for picture shrinkage in sync wiht the audio. The ones with the least picture shrinkage have the better power supplies, which is the number one failure point in any TV. Buy it, take it home and run the balls off it for 90 days. After that, if it's still reasonably good as new, keep it.
Oh, and waiting for HDTV top "stabilize" at this point is like waiting for the polar caps to thaw. You can get a fucking HD set now for like $500, and the greater picture quality improves regular TV, DVDs, satellite - even here in buttfuck, mississippi there's plenty of programming to take advantage of it. Why on earth would anyone at this point spend $1000 on a "non HD" set when it would be guaranteed to be obsolete before the end of the decade?
I've owned half a dozen sony items over the years... all crap, maybe they've gotten better in recent times... I woulnd't know as I haven't bought or owned anything sony for at least 4 years.
Sony free is the way to be!
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Further to this, most lightgun games can't handle high TV refresh rates. Time Crisis 2 won't work on a 100Hz CRT, for example.
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
This setup isn't for anyone who's serious about watching TV at a range beyond 5 feet or less. LCD monitors within a $1000 dollar (minus other listed equipment) price range are just far too tiny for use as your main television. That price range will only net you a 17" LCD, but can instead put you in the range for a 30"-36" direct CRT HDTV or can put you in the range for a refurbished or discount 43" rear projection CRT HDTV.
The setup you propose is a hugely wasteful one for what you get. I'd only advise it if you're living in a college dorm or a really tiny apartment. The poster of the article was thinking about projectors (though with a $1000 price cap, he wasn't thinking very far). I'd say that it's safe to say that he has the room for a far better system.
(The comment about being aware of where you buy from is a good one, though it's really just impossible to buy name-brand electronics that do not contain large amounts of components that are made in China & Taiwan even if the main assembly isn't done there.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").