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MSN Messenger Access To Be Restricted
linuxwrangler writes "According to Infoworld, Microsoft has announced that as of October 15 some third-party software and older versions of MSN Messenger will no longer be able to log in to their Instant Messaging service. Microsoft cited 'security issues', but declined to offer specifics. The company sent an email alert to Messenger users, but users reported thinking the message was a hoax or virus after receiving over a dozen copies of the email."
It's not vendor lock-in if someone else has the key. So yeah, it is a security measure. ;)
Now I feel sad. Not even Microsoft wants to email me.
Does any one know witch version of msn jabber emulates?
I really really want to keep useing jabber for my IM stuff (its not like I have a whole heck of a lot of choice , but running msn in wine is not my idea of a fun time).
Gaim falls under the category of third party software, so I'll have to assume so.
No more Messenger for me while playing around with X, but then again, I prefer AIM anyways.
Let's see.
Is Gaim a MS sponsered MSN Messenger?
Nope.
We are out in the cold.
Space for rent, inquire within
The trillian developers are probably working on it as we speak
Microsoft cited 'security issues', but declined to offer specifics.
The "security issue" is, of course, the "leak" of vital advertisement money they would be getting (:
Oh, ya... this is microsoft we are talking about.. get people using it, then take control of it.
Good way to cut off *nix users too..
And yes i realize its their software, their network but i thought at one point they said it would remain open...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
didn't AOL try to blobk trillian as well.... look how well that worked :) I use trillian to talk on ICQ, AOL, Yahoo, and MSN - I feel no need to run ALL those proggys - in fact I wish I only used 1, but some friends absolutely refuse to switch to anything other than - whatever happened to the days when everyone I knew was using ICQ and occassionally meeting up with eachother in an IRC room or web forum?
Ave Molech Setting
"We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement,"
Requiring formal agreements could be a sly way to keep open source software out. How would an open source project go about making such an agreement?
Just a couple of years ago? Now they decide that they don't want to play with others now.
Here's one of the many stories on it:
http://net4tv.com/voice/Story.cfm?storyID=1693
...or do we just have to scroll to the bottom of the page to find the Trillian-compatible Messenger version?
from the article:
:)
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
So....then I guess third parties will likely not be able to use the service but apparently MS is fine with them contacting them to work things out. Doesn't seem so bad. Unless of course MS starts charging exorbatant fees for third-party users of the protocol. Which would be pretty insane. For now, benefit of the doubt is what I'll give. Partly b/c I'm crazy
This is pretty bad news. I wonder if this is the first step in the process of charging for MSN messenger usage.
Wouldn't have anything to do with this announcement would it?
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
The implication that a network is more secure by only allowing MS developed software to access it is bunk. There is no logical reason why restricting clients and implementing security-through-obscurity will reduce anyone's exposure to network security problems.
Well, I guess it would reduce Microsoft's exposure since everyone using the network would have agreed to a Draconian EULA that stripped them of all their rights.
Be assured, this is not about security, it is about control.
Exactly, and this is pretty ironic considering the complaining MS did when they tried to hook into AOL's servers. They would link the servers and AOL would close the hole, then MS would find another way around, and AOL would close that one, and so on...
Now they'll pretend that never happened and act like people trying to circumvent their protections are some kind of criminals.
if(!cool) exit(-1);
AOL didn't allow Trillian on their network for a long time, citing bandwidth and resource use from people who weren't looking at the integrated AIM ads or using the AOL service. AOL insisted that third-party clients use the vastly inferior TOC protocol to connect to the AIM network instead of letting third-party clients use their proprietary OSCAR protocol.
So what did the engineers at Trillian and GAIM do? They reverse-engineered the OSCAR protocol and Trillian and GAIM can now use the AIM network again.
If Microsoft locks down their network, I give it all of 3 days before Trillian and others can access it again. AOL tried and was unsuccessful. I doubt Microsoft will be able to stop this for long considering the negative publicity (and Trillian patch) that would result.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
According to this discussion on the Cerulean Studios website, their new version of Trillian Pro already supports the MSN 6 protocol, and thus should not be affected by this change.
It's already in beta testing, and should be out before the deadline.
-- This sig for rent.
From the article:
"We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Sundwall would not comment on what type of agreement Microsoft would want with third-party IM software providers. "We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement," he said.
Yep. Sounds like M$ is really out to crush the competition and strike a blow to open source. Yep, they're being completely unreasonable here. Light the torches boys, we've got a rabbelous mob to form!
no thanks
I am hopeful that the developers of Gaim will be able to implement the latest MSN protocol by the Oct. 15th deadline. If not, well, my Gaim is also running Yahoo Messenger, ICQ, and AOL... any of which are fine with me. I'll have to get my parents to switch to ICQ but that shouldn't be a problem.
Well, rampant worms and other exploits of ridiculous security holes may be having their merry way with computer systems worldwide, and the traffic those generate may be slowing down the internet, but THANK GOD the Microsoft brain trust is making sure that their IM software is water-fucking-tight! Bravo, minions of Bill, bravo!
/me stands up to applaud.
~Philly
The guys at Trillian have been managing just fine over the years, working out how the various IM communicate and successfully implementing the protocols. This is just some MS FUD to get people to stop using the likes of Trillian. But never fear, I bet by OCt 15 I'll be logging into MSN via my updated version of Trillian.
"She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
Do we read this as: The upgrade is required because "we can't track the behavior of our Messenger users " with the older versions of the Messenger clients and third party clients, he said, declining to specify those issues.?
A similar action by talkcity.com about 4 years ago killed the activity in its chat rooms, wonder if Microsoft will let that happen or use strong arm techniques to keep the users!
There are two kinds of egotists: 1) Those who admit it 2) The rest of us
So, there's still some hope.
;)
Oh, you're going to cover the licensing fees for GAIM? Cool! Thanks! Hey guys, didja hear that? Gherald is covering the MS license fees for GAIM to keep working with Messenger . . .
everything in moderation
... do you see something like this:
uh huh... ... bullshit!!
(Score: 2, Insightful)
What is it about microsoft articles that cause the average IQ to plummet around here?
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
This is pretty typical of Microsoft though, so it isn't really any surprise is it?
[1] Attempt to crack market with new software
[2] Bundle software with OS - make pain in ass to remove
[3] wait for large user base to build
[4] close off to other vendors (you are here)
[5] wait for competition to die off
[6?] China decides to make it's own impementation =P
After circumventing the access control layer one of two things will take place:
Micro$oft will claim some sort of copyright on some of the data stored on their servers. This is not have to be the messages. It could be the compliation of the directory information of the user. By circumventing their access control you have gained access to a protected copyrighted work. DING DING DING DMCA VIOLATION DING DING DING
Since all communications must go through Micro$oft's (or their duly delegated agent's) servers, by circumventing the access control layer you have gained unauthorized access to a protected computer system. DING DING DING USA PATRIOT VIOLATION DING DING DING
Of course we all know why Micro$oft is really doing this:
Lock in - Keep users in your system and don't let them talk to other systems either by your own client or by some third party client.
Security through legality - This is one more piece of legal wrangling they can use to avoid any realy responsibility about any security concerns. Any security breach would require an exploit that the MSN client is not programmed to do. Thus any exploit would require writing a different client or modifing the MSN client. Either way this is an unauthorized client and the DMCA and the USA PATRIOT Act can be used.
Same too ya - Uhhh, AOL is doing it to MSN so MSN is doing it to AOL.
Gee, I guess I'll just use that analog, electro-mechanical, voice messaging system that the FCC won't let the baby bells completely destroy.
Ah, yes... I remember so fondly the pioneering days of Trillian, when I'd patch two, three times a day to maintain AIM connection. How excited I would get, coming back from classes and wondering if yet another release due to "flap error" was going to be necessary!
It made Trillian that much more exciting to use, all the more so because I loathed (and continue to loathe) AOL so much. Of course, I always had ICQ to fall back on. Then AOL bought them and drove them into the ground.
What we need is an open source, secure protocol for chatting, newly implemented for today's uses. I'm getting tired of chatting over AIM, just because it has something to do with AOL. Yahoo I don't like either, nor MSN, or ICQ for above mentioned reasons. And other chat programs with half-standards aren't at all what we need at all. There are more than enough able geeks out there, some solution shouldn't be too difficult to organize a consortium to address the situation. Mayhap I smell an Ask Slashdot in the future.
1. It is decentralized, like email.
2. Anyone with a domain can use it, even on a lan that isn't connected to the internet. I am sheenmaster@frob.us
3. It has "transports" to access the other IM services.
4. It has clients for literally everything, and is easy to program for.
get it
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
It appears this may be just affecting MSN's older protocols (MSNP7 and below). See this post and this link, which is referenced in the post.
BTW, I use Miranda and think it's a great Open Source alternative to Trillian. Check it out.
Microsoft's IM letter means you agree to pay and upgrade
END USERS OF Microsoft's Instant Messenger software that got multiple copies of a mail advising them to upgrade yesterday need to read the fine print of the firm's terms and conditions most carefully.
The end user licence agreement (EULA) for the new version of Instant Messenger has some clauses that suggest changes are afoot in the way Microsoft deals with this popular little software item.
By clicking on the new agreement, users promise to pay for future upgrades and to acquire future chargeable upgrades whether they're wanted or unwanted.
Read on...
What does this mean? It could mean that Microsoft may charge fees whenever it wants, and that you also have to stop using the software if the firm decides.
Always read the fine print. If Microsoft addes this particular clause to operating systems, everyone might be forced to utter "Hail Palladium" when the push came to shove.
The less they have to worry about catering to others, or time spent on monitoring 'others' on their products or network is time they can spend in their deployment of the one product end user goal. We've seen a glimmer of that mindset when last week they announced that the reason for BSOD's was outside programing etc.... LI}But eventually changes like this that ostracize entire portions of computer users will eventually lead to the better development by those who subscribe to deviant technologies. So in the end this move could start off the stages needed as a catalyst for better development and increases onward and upward.
Let's keep in mind that patents are in place to keep lawyers employed and keep them litigating. -CatGrep
Remember back in 1999? It was MSN who was complaining that AOL wouldn't play nicely with them. Now MS throws their IM-bot in with windows, and makes it frustrating to remove if installing Outlook, and then closes the door.
But don't think AOL is now held irresponsible in this battle. A few months ago, AOL asked the FCC if it could break the rules. It seems yesterday, AOL announced it would go ahead and break the rules.
It sounds like there needs to be a group "time-out". Everybody goes to their corner and sits for 5 minutes.
It's not a "sly way to keep open source software out"*, it's a not-so-sly way to counter OTHER people getting ad revenue/sales off YOUR network service, among other things.
MSN messenger only really makes money off:
(last two being market-share 'enhancers')...which is pretty much why AOL offers AIM independently too. When a client like Trillian is a)letting people use your service without showing you ads and b)letting users talk to anyone on any network...well, now, you've just shot 2 out of 3 reasons for MSN messenger's free-ness, haven't you?
Not to mention, someone at MSN's sales deparment finally realized "Hmm,, people are making money SELLING a client for our network! Hey! I bet WE can get a piece of that money!" They probably approached Trillian, Trillian probably told them to go screw, and MSN said "hah, watch us pull the plug". So, basically, Trillian etc will be forced to sign an agreement forking over xx% of their [gross/net/whatever] sales, the business world will perhaps do a little more than yawn, and the sun will rise tomorrow...meanwhile, Instant Messaging Planet will generate a dozen news stories and at least one conference over the whole thing ;-)
* let's drop the persecution complex, for crissakes- companies do things for one reason, and one reason only- to MAKE MONEY, not join The Man in fucking open source over.
Please help metamoderate.
Microsoft will be shutting down this security and spam risk as well, right? Seeing as how they are security concious all of a sudden. Or maybe they'd care to fix this problem, labelled a major security issue by the FBI. Or perhapse this URL exploit in SP1?
Come on, MS. You can do better this blatant attempt to isolate your market under the guise of a security issue, especially when there are so many more important ones that have been left lying around for so long now...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I have for the past few months being trying to consolidate my personality into a few well defined slivers ...
- handling different email identities with a single email package has helped a lot, and the fact that I can receive messages from different boxes, and send messages from different boxes - all from a single application is godsent
... MS has a product called Outlook which dominates the market ..
- I also am warming up to password management programs so that I have fewer passwords to forget
... MS came up with something that was supposed to help me - PASSPORT
- I am trying to consolidate my "buddy" personalities into a manageable interface, and Trillian helps me. Now, wouldn't it be nice if MS came up with a product like they have done for earlier needs. But, no sir, they got nothing in this category. So, what do they do. They try to destroy the entire category.
I think this is unfair. I think this is injust. I think this is immoral.And I think it is worse.
Instead of helping me manage my different identities, MS is actually doing the opposite. MS is driving me to multiple personalities. MS is driving me to schizophrenia. This, I think is just, so, wrong.
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
I can actually understand the Windows-only issue from their point of view; although I don't agree with it as a customer.
But I bet they're losing users to third-party clients in far greater numbers in the windows platform than anywhere else.
Linux users are already willing to go through some inconvenience to NOT use their OS OR their Office suite, areas over which they had a much tighter control in the market over the years. It's not like they hope to "bring them back" through Messenger.
I'm using Trillian right now on a Windows machine. Why? Not because I can't use Messenger, not because I have ethical issues about using Messenger, but because Messenger and its network (like RealPlayer) is a product that has gone from decent to inferior to catastrophic with each "upgrade".
Perhaps if the network did not kick me out sporadically, if their client didn't take that long to sign me in, or took up over twice the memory size of Trillian, or if I didn't constantly get spam through it, or if it didn't have authentication problems with my hotmail account (which Trillian doesn't have)...
Well, you get the idea. Perhaps if their client didn't suck that much I wouldn't mind using it.
I mean, I love having all my IM ids in the same client, and probably wouldn't want to live without it by now. But it's like tabbed browsing in Mozilla... it's a feature that solves a problem many people don't know they have.
What made me try Trillian was not my admittedly crowed taskbar, it was one too many popups from Messenger advertising porn.
If their products were merely competent, they wouldn't even have to match the 3rd party products feature by feature. Not until a mainstream IM client (IM or Yahoo) forces them to by including those features itself.
Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
What people fail to realize, is that IM is regionalized. In other words, each region adopts its own IM and sticks to it. I live in a small town in North Dakota. Early on, ICQ was the popular instant messager, but due to Windows' inclusion of MSN Messenger, MSN Messenger won over this market. Today, maybe 5% of the community uses ICQ/AIM. The same applies for much of the rural midwest. The cities are another issue entirely, where AIM comes into play. I don't know the numbers, but I'm guessing that AIM is the most popular IM in New York and LA, due to the large number of AOL subscribers. The problem here, while IM allowed millions to be able to communicate and share in a way that chat rooms failed to do (simplicity for one), is that this communication may draw boundries, with one city being 'incompatible' with another city just a few miles away. The bridge programs (such as Trillian) can help to take these borders down, but only if Microsoft and AOL don't mind.
The Political Programmer
I'm amazed that there isn't a single person on Slashdot who can figure this out. I hear plenty of conspiracy theories about how Microsoft wants to maintain their marketshare (for a free piece of software?) or that they don't want the protocol in the public domain (here's a hint: the APIs are all documented at MSDN Library) or that somehow this is some evil ploy to enslave all those people who couldn't just go use another FREE IM network. None of it withstands the test of logic.
The only thing, and I mean the ONLY THING this is about is preventing the sort of widespread IM Spam garbage that permeates other IM networks. Messenger has always been top notch at this in the past, but if they don't lock down the service to known, registered client programs, it's just a matter of time until someone creates a high volume IM spambot (if they haven't already).
Hands up who is surprised. It's standard business practice for MS.
Hands up who is surprised. It's standard business practice for MS.
Gates calls on FCC to examine AIM (ZDnet)18 Dec 2000 - Microsoft chairman Bill Gates telephoned the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission last week to urge a close examination of America Online's dominance in instant messaging, a Microsoft representative confirmed.
Leading Technology and Instant Messaging Companies Form IMUnified (The Devil Himself) - One of the things that makes this coalition so exciting is the opportunity to work together and learn from each other so that we can create a system that is even more private and more secure than what is available today, said Yusuf Mehdi, vice president of MSN at Microsoft Corp.
AT this stage, I think we are only at stage 6 of the product lifecycle. Although the IETF announced Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) almost a year ago, IBM and Microsoft have promoted a separate standard known as SIMPLE (SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions). As IM becomes more important in the corporate sector the issue really starts to revolve around this proposed standard and the conditions under which it will be available or licenced.
Stopping myself...Abort (core dumped)
Did any of you ever even once stop to think that maybe that particular protocol IS insecure?
Last year, my friend went through the MSN messenger API and found all sorts of goodies. Within a few minutes, he was sending messages as if they were from other people. He played jokes on us for a little while, striking up weird conversations out of the blue.
Think before you open your mouth.
One issue with fragmentation is that metcalfes law works in reverse: exponential loss of value.
If a network is split in two, the value of each network is (.5)^2, or a quarter of the value were the network to be united.
Even though there are now two separate networks, the total value is half what it would otherwise be.
I just put up a page that describes the situation slightly and mentions what we can and can't do about it. Please read it before asking us on IRC. We're getting flooded with questions.
Thanks for the link to the jdev archive. I found this url in one of the posts discussing the new msn 8/9 protocol. Looks interesting.
From the site's main page: "This website is intended to be an unofficial guide to the MSN Messenger protocol. It is written primarily for programmers that want to utilize the MSN Messenger protocol in software."
Who cares? Drop MSN and their messenger. It is a joke anyway. Use Jabber of GAIM or Yahoo or anyone else you know.
As Clausewitz said, "fixed fortifications are a monumnet to the stupidity of man."
Microsoft is just building a moat around their customers to protect their revenue stream. That never works.
All Ad hominem replies happily ignored as the sender shall be deemed to lack the faculties to comprehend the equation.
What I haven't seen here are messages about Yahoo porting its messenger to a couple of Unix flavours. One of the developers even maintains a nice FAQ! The current version (1.0) works like a charm, with RPM and deb packages available. The next version 1.1 will probably support webcams.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
I phoned MS support after getting that email (I have MS Gamevoice, which only works wirth Messenger up to 4.6)
They told me on the phone it was a virus email.
Stop bitching about Microsoft for a change. Microsoft is the only "commercial" IM provider that has been in favour of a standard protocol for IM. They published this draft in 1999, a complete spec of the MSN Messenger 1.0 Protocol.
Well, it is not like the MSN protocol specification has been open earlier, which didn't stop developers from making third party clients. I see no reason why the same people shouldn't be able to reverse engineer the protocol specs once more.
The question you should ask yourself is why MS is going this very public about "closing" their protocol.
---
The combined human population is enough to feed every living tiger for app. 28000 years.
Thats right along with Hotmail it's just a matter of time till M$ decide you need to PAY to use the services. It seems hotmail keeps losing features everyday, until eventually you won't even be able to read e-mails with it unless you pay... I can see IM going the same way, then it wouldn't matter which client you use, you'd still need a subscription. It's ok though, they'll say its for security reasons, I mean, if everyone's paying, it MUST be secure, right?
I spent ages trying to think of sig, but never did