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MSN Messenger Access To Be Restricted
linuxwrangler writes "According to Infoworld, Microsoft has announced that as of October 15 some third-party software and older versions of MSN Messenger will no longer be able to log in to their Instant Messaging service. Microsoft cited 'security issues', but declined to offer specifics. The company sent an email alert to Messenger users, but users reported thinking the message was a hoax or virus after receiving over a dozen copies of the email."
It's not vendor lock-in if someone else has the key. So yeah, it is a security measure. ;)
.... bullshit!! They just want to close off their service.
Now I feel sad. Not even Microsoft wants to email me.
Does any one know witch version of msn jabber emulates?
I really really want to keep useing jabber for my IM stuff (its not like I have a whole heck of a lot of choice , but running msn in wine is not my idea of a fun time).
Gaim falls under the category of third party software, so I'll have to assume so.
No more Messenger for me while playing around with X, but then again, I prefer AIM anyways.
Let's see.
Is Gaim a MS sponsered MSN Messenger?
Nope.
We are out in the cold.
Space for rent, inquire within
The trillian developers are probably working on it as we speak
So in a nutshell, I may be forced to run windows on my desktop machine if there is no opensource client alternative. I can only hope that there will be some way to get around this.
Microsoft cited 'security issues', but declined to offer specifics.
The "security issue" is, of course, the "leak" of vital advertisement money they would be getting (:
Yeah, that sure worked out great for AOL.
this sucks! who wants to use ad-filled msn! What a power grab! That's it, everyone switch to jabber!
Oh, ya... this is microsoft we are talking about.. get people using it, then take control of it.
Good way to cut off *nix users too..
And yes i realize its their software, their network but i thought at one point they said it would remain open...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Seeing as how the IM market is fairly competitive, and all those work with Trillian as well, is there any reason people wouldn't just leave MSN IM? Or is their service really that popular? (it's the only trillian service I've never used)
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Oh come on, you can't keep all the security problems to yourself you greedy bastards!!!
didn't AOL try to blobk trillian as well.... look how well that worked :) I use trillian to talk on ICQ, AOL, Yahoo, and MSN - I feel no need to run ALL those proggys - in fact I wish I only used 1, but some friends absolutely refuse to switch to anything other than - whatever happened to the days when everyone I knew was using ICQ and occassionally meeting up with eachother in an IRC room or web forum?
Ave Molech Setting
"We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement,"
Requiring formal agreements could be a sly way to keep open source software out. How would an open source project go about making such an agreement?
Who uses msn, anyway? I thought almost everyone uses the AIM part of Gaim or irc or something.
Just a couple of years ago? Now they decide that they don't want to play with others now.
Here's one of the many stories on it:
http://net4tv.com/voice/Story.cfm?storyID=1693
...or do we just have to scroll to the bottom of the page to find the Trillian-compatible Messenger version?
I use all four major IM services (AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, MSN), because I run a web host and I need to be able to be contacted by anyone. If MSN won't let me integrate all of my IM services into one client, then I won't use them. Simple. My desktop is crowded enough as it is with just ONE IM client. I'll be sad to not be able to service my MSN-using customers, but that's the way things are.
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
from the article:
:)
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
So....then I guess third parties will likely not be able to use the service but apparently MS is fine with them contacting them to work things out. Doesn't seem so bad. Unless of course MS starts charging exorbatant fees for third-party users of the protocol. Which would be pretty insane. For now, benefit of the doubt is what I'll give. Partly b/c I'm crazy
This is pretty bad news. I wonder if this is the first step in the process of charging for MSN messenger usage.
to use more open alternatives. AIM anyone?
Wouldn't have anything to do with this announcement would it?
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
I once used GAIM exclusively until I started using MacOS (learning experience... I still use Linux but not as my correspondence machine.) Anyway, I am relatively certain that the GAIM folks will come up with a way to allow connectivity. There will always be a way... just gotta keep on patchin'
SCO has Intellectual Property in both Trillian and MSN Messenger, and will soon sue users of both out of existence.
The implication that a network is more secure by only allowing MS developed software to access it is bunk. There is no logical reason why restricting clients and implementing security-through-obscurity will reduce anyone's exposure to network security problems.
Well, I guess it would reduce Microsoft's exposure since everyone using the network would have agreed to a Draconian EULA that stripped them of all their rights.
Be assured, this is not about security, it is about control.
This follows closely on the heels of the FCC's lifting of the restrictions on AIM, as discussed recently. Seems that MS thinks that if AIM can get away with locking people out, so can they.
This account verified sig-free since..., uh, never mind.
What would really surprise me is if they actually use some GPLed public/private key encryption!
Get rid of everything Micro and Soft: Buy Viagra and/or Linux
I know that most slashdotters don't RTFA, but this is bordering on the ridiculous! It's one thing not to read the artcile before replying, quite another not to read the blurb. :P
Ok I can understand Microsofts want to have people use THEIR client, but I'm sorry some of us don't use windows and need to talk to people who are on windows based systems and happen to use MSN. I'm sure that there will a patch around this almost immediatley, but still :-\ quite annoying.
Microsoft: instead of making your protocol HARDER, offer the features people obviously want: a cross protocol client, if you make it slick, easy, free, etc people won't use trillian, they will use yours.... especially if you bundle it. Just don't shut down your network to the "outsiders"
Security.... yeah, security my big toe....
I only used my MSN Messenger account when I really needed to before. Now I won't use it at all. There are other IM services out there, and Microsoft's wasn't a particularly GOOD one anyhow...
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Sundwall: "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
So, there's still some hope. The code to GAIM is freely availeable for Microsoft to audit, so theres at least a small chance they will certify it as not being a "security risk".
The unofficial
The IM community is so partitioned now, that most users have to run 2-4 different clients in order to talk to all of their friends. What about a service that is open, cant be bought out, and will last for a long time?
Has anyone run into a decentralized IM service?
AOL tried this for a long time and failed miserably. Remember when MSN was attempting to convince AOL to open up AIM?
Then you should definately take a look at Messenger Plus. Amazing 3rd party "plugin", including ad-removal.
Fascinating how Microsoft is using AOL's *excuse* to block third parties from accessing MSN Messenger? I seem to recall AOL using this reason to block MSN and others from its users and Microsoft responded by helping to set up IMUnified as a pressure group to convince the FTC and the FCC to require AOL to open up the AIM network to them... I love hypocricy (sic, if I spelled that incorrectly!)...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
AOL didn't allow Trillian on their network for a long time, citing bandwidth and resource use from people who weren't looking at the integrated AIM ads or using the AOL service. AOL insisted that third-party clients use the vastly inferior TOC protocol to connect to the AIM network instead of letting third-party clients use their proprietary OSCAR protocol.
So what did the engineers at Trillian and GAIM do? They reverse-engineered the OSCAR protocol and Trillian and GAIM can now use the AIM network again.
If Microsoft locks down their network, I give it all of 3 days before Trillian and others can access it again. AOL tried and was unsuccessful. I doubt Microsoft will be able to stop this for long considering the negative publicity (and Trillian patch) that would result.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
According to this discussion on the Cerulean Studios website, their new version of Trillian Pro already supports the MSN 6 protocol, and thus should not be affected by this change.
It's already in beta testing, and should be out before the deadline.
-- This sig for rent.
From the article:
"We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Sundwall would not comment on what type of agreement Microsoft would want with third-party IM software providers. "We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement," he said.
Yep. Sounds like M$ is really out to crush the competition and strike a blow to open source. Yep, they're being completely unreasonable here. Light the torches boys, we've got a rabbelous mob to form!
no thanks
Since when did security issues keep software off the street?
Thanks Microsoft, for breaking the IM unity that Trillian was successful at providing. Is it just me, or does this paint M$ as a sore loser?
-jc
I am hopeful that the developers of Gaim will be able to implement the latest MSN protocol by the Oct. 15th deadline. If not, well, my Gaim is also running Yahoo Messenger, ICQ, and AOL... any of which are fine with me. I'll have to get my parents to switch to ICQ but that shouldn't be a problem.
Well, rampant worms and other exploits of ridiculous security holes may be having their merry way with computer systems worldwide, and the traffic those generate may be slowing down the internet, but THANK GOD the Microsoft brain trust is making sure that their IM software is water-fucking-tight! Bravo, minions of Bill, bravo!
/me stands up to applaud.
~Philly
Quote from the linked article:
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Sundwall would not comment on what type of agreement Microsoft would want with third-party IM software providers. "We are very interested in interoperating with all third parties, there just needs to be a formal agreement," he said.
Still BS, but at least it's not the usual "shut off and don't answer questions policy".
Do we read this as: The upgrade is required because "we can't track the behavior of our Messenger users " with the older versions of the Messenger clients and third party clients, he said, declining to specify those issues.?
A similar action by talkcity.com about 4 years ago killed the activity in its chat rooms, wonder if Microsoft will let that happen or use strong arm techniques to keep the users!
There are two kinds of egotists: 1) Those who admit it 2) The rest of us
This should stop the IM spam.
That's right folks, this is just going to get worse and worse, with each IM service locking down the clients for "security concern$".
jabber, on the other hand, is an open protocol, and by nature, and third party clients are encouraged.
I've been exclusive on jabber for 6 months now. If anybody really wants to chat with me, they can do so through jabber ( skennedy@qualitydentists.com )
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Wasn't it not that long ago that Microsoft was putting out white papers on the MSN Protocol for others to use in programming clients?
So, there's still some hope.
;)
Oh, you're going to cover the licensing fees for GAIM? Cool! Thanks! Hey guys, didja hear that? Gherald is covering the MS license fees for GAIM to keep working with Messenger . . .
everything in moderation
... do you see something like this:
uh huh... ... bullshit!!
(Score: 2, Insightful)
What is it about microsoft articles that cause the average IQ to plummet around here?
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
then I say, "Fine by me." I'll just use some other service, such as AOL's AIM. I would never use a M$ Internet service in the first place, partly because I fully expect Microsoft to pull crap like this on a regular basis.
Anyone up for a mass exodus?
I'm installing Trilian as I type, and digging out my ICQ number. I'll use MSM to hand this number (and the URL of trillian - http://www.trillian.cc) to my friends over the next couple of months. After that Gates can damn well go ahead and instigate his pay-per-type service, or whatever evil M$ Tax he thinks up next. Does he ever wonder why nobody ever has anything good to say about his business and software practices?
Don't tell me you people actually use that protocol (in any original or clone IM).
For you trillian users:
Here is a Link that seems to think trillian and other 3rd parties using the "newer" protocol will be ok.
So, there's still some hope. The code to GAIM is freely availeable for Microsoft to audit, so theres at least a small chance they will certify it as not being a "security risk".
You think they're talking about the user's security?
Don't be naive. The only security they are referring to is the security of their market share.
"'Tis a small mind indeed cannot think but of one way to spell a word." -Mark Twain
I only know about 2 people that use MSN anyways and I hated having to make an account just to IM them.
I guess it's time to send them a message saying I'll no longer be using Messenger and that they can get me on ICQ or AIM.
This will also remove the one reason I've been reluctant to try iChat A/V (no MSN support).
Dear Beta Tester, We are pleased to announce that Microsoft(R) Office Live Communications Server 2003, Standard Edition (formerly known as "RTC Server" and "Greenwich") has been released to manufacturing.
...
...
The Microsoft Office Live Communications Team
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
The only reason I use Msn is because most of my friends and clients use it, so I kinda have to use it if I want to keep in touch. No, They're too lazy to move to something else. This really sucks because up to now I've been using 4.6 and refuse to upgrade to the bloated piece of shit that MSN 6.x is.
I also develop plugins for Msn plus, and like the fact that msn 4.x is nice, small and fast to start up when debugging.
I want a fast, small, simple IM app. Not a freaking huge application that takes up half of the screen , gaming centre, washes my dishes, takes care of the kids, walks the dog. I cannot stand that program, I tried it twice but no! I hate it. This really sucks.
Hopefully it will be rev eng soon. dmca? ARGH@#$
[alk]
This is pretty typical of Microsoft though, so it isn't really any surprise is it?
[1] Attempt to crack market with new software
[2] Bundle software with OS - make pain in ass to remove
[3] wait for large user base to build
[4] close off to other vendors (you are here)
[5] wait for competition to die off
[6?] China decides to make it's own impementation =P
Perhaps. I am not being naive though, I just pointed out there was a "small chance."
The unofficial
After circumventing the access control layer one of two things will take place:
Micro$oft will claim some sort of copyright on some of the data stored on their servers. This is not have to be the messages. It could be the compliation of the directory information of the user. By circumventing their access control you have gained access to a protected copyrighted work. DING DING DING DMCA VIOLATION DING DING DING
Since all communications must go through Micro$oft's (or their duly delegated agent's) servers, by circumventing the access control layer you have gained unauthorized access to a protected computer system. DING DING DING USA PATRIOT VIOLATION DING DING DING
Of course we all know why Micro$oft is really doing this:
Lock in - Keep users in your system and don't let them talk to other systems either by your own client or by some third party client.
Security through legality - This is one more piece of legal wrangling they can use to avoid any realy responsibility about any security concerns. Any security breach would require an exploit that the MSN client is not programmed to do. Thus any exploit would require writing a different client or modifing the MSN client. Either way this is an unauthorized client and the DMCA and the USA PATRIOT Act can be used.
Same too ya - Uhhh, AOL is doing it to MSN so MSN is doing it to AOL.
Gee, I guess I'll just use that analog, electro-mechanical, voice messaging system that the FCC won't let the baby bells completely destroy.
Ah, yes... I remember so fondly the pioneering days of Trillian, when I'd patch two, three times a day to maintain AIM connection. How excited I would get, coming back from classes and wondering if yet another release due to "flap error" was going to be necessary!
It made Trillian that much more exciting to use, all the more so because I loathed (and continue to loathe) AOL so much. Of course, I always had ICQ to fall back on. Then AOL bought them and drove them into the ground.
What we need is an open source, secure protocol for chatting, newly implemented for today's uses. I'm getting tired of chatting over AIM, just because it has something to do with AOL. Yahoo I don't like either, nor MSN, or ICQ for above mentioned reasons. And other chat programs with half-standards aren't at all what we need at all. There are more than enough able geeks out there, some solution shouldn't be too difficult to organize a consortium to address the situation. Mayhap I smell an Ask Slashdot in the future.
After 10/15 I won't be able to use the last version of MSN that works on the Classic MacOS! And some Macs are just not well-equipped to run MacOS X. My Blue G3 can run it, but my Wallstreet Powerbook isn't so lucky. Oh well, I'll just have to tell everyone to contact me via either AIM or YIM. Or IRC which I'm usually on all the time anyway.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
but, hey, not bad for a FP atempt. My only regret is losing to GNAA.
And I'll be happy to cover your licensing fees for MSN Messenger 6.0 as well!
I'd estimate the grand total will come to about, say, $0 ?
The unofficial
At least I thought one of the reasons for using Trillian was because you could make it use encryption and stuff.
I tried trillian and I couldn't get it to work. I could get ms messenger to work sometimes but mostly couldn't be stuffed. All the chat/instant messanger things were banned at work, you had to get special permission from the Lan Admin. Something to do with keeping bandwidth use down or stopping time wasting.
Of course the Lan Admin used his to find a girl, and fall in love...
Sigh. The only one I used regularily was ICQ - ironically to solve work problems in my new job.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Everyone i know has an AIM account. Who cares what happens to MSN?
The samba team unravelled SMB so I'm sure it won't take long to "fix" this
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
So that's why Microsoft allowed the leak of MSN Messenger 6.0. When I first saw it, and the fact that it was being leaked over and over very quickly, I thought it was odd. Then Microsoft released their own pre-released version. Everyone I know who uses MSN Messenger went to 6.0 like flies on ... stuff flies like.
But not very many people I knew who ran the clones went over to 6.0. It's all just to convenient.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
Wrong. They said they want to have formal agreements with third-party software. Interoperability is still there.
This is a non-story.
"Sufferin' succotash."
1. It is decentralized, like email.
2. Anyone with a domain can use it, even on a lan that isn't connected to the internet. I am sheenmaster@frob.us
3. It has "transports" to access the other IM services.
4. It has clients for literally everything, and is easy to program for.
get it
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Trillian rocks for me... I actually *bought* it, (funny concept, buying software, eh, linux users?) and it's worked beautifully for me. I have friends who use different protocols, as well as linux friends, so this royally sucks...
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
It appears this may be just affecting MSN's older protocols (MSNP7 and below). See this post and this link, which is referenced in the post.
BTW, I use Miranda and think it's a great Open Source alternative to Trillian. Check it out.
the only reason I use Trillian to access MSN Messenger in the first place is because the newest upgrade of Messenger locks up my computer. Maybe if MS could make something more stable than Trillian, they wouldn't have to worry about their competition.
Microsoft's IM letter means you agree to pay and upgrade
END USERS OF Microsoft's Instant Messenger software that got multiple copies of a mail advising them to upgrade yesterday need to read the fine print of the firm's terms and conditions most carefully.
The end user licence agreement (EULA) for the new version of Instant Messenger has some clauses that suggest changes are afoot in the way Microsoft deals with this popular little software item.
By clicking on the new agreement, users promise to pay for future upgrades and to acquire future chargeable upgrades whether they're wanted or unwanted.
Read on...
What does this mean? It could mean that Microsoft may charge fees whenever it wants, and that you also have to stop using the software if the firm decides.
Always read the fine print. If Microsoft addes this particular clause to operating systems, everyone might be forced to utter "Hail Palladium" when the push came to shove.
The less they have to worry about catering to others, or time spent on monitoring 'others' on their products or network is time they can spend in their deployment of the one product end user goal. We've seen a glimmer of that mindset when last week they announced that the reason for BSOD's was outside programing etc.... LI}But eventually changes like this that ostracize entire portions of computer users will eventually lead to the better development by those who subscribe to deviant technologies. So in the end this move could start off the stages needed as a catalyst for better development and increases onward and upward.
Let's keep in mind that patents are in place to keep lawyers employed and keep them litigating. -CatGrep
Remember back in 1999? It was MSN who was complaining that AOL wouldn't play nicely with them. Now MS throws their IM-bot in with windows, and makes it frustrating to remove if installing Outlook, and then closes the door.
But don't think AOL is now held irresponsible in this battle. A few months ago, AOL asked the FCC if it could break the rules. It seems yesterday, AOL announced it would go ahead and break the rules.
It sounds like there needs to be a group "time-out". Everybody goes to their corner and sits for 5 minutes.
I only got it once, for whatver thats worth (Trillian user myself...)
It's not a "sly way to keep open source software out"*, it's a not-so-sly way to counter OTHER people getting ad revenue/sales off YOUR network service, among other things.
MSN messenger only really makes money off:
(last two being market-share 'enhancers')...which is pretty much why AOL offers AIM independently too. When a client like Trillian is a)letting people use your service without showing you ads and b)letting users talk to anyone on any network...well, now, you've just shot 2 out of 3 reasons for MSN messenger's free-ness, haven't you?
Not to mention, someone at MSN's sales deparment finally realized "Hmm,, people are making money SELLING a client for our network! Hey! I bet WE can get a piece of that money!" They probably approached Trillian, Trillian probably told them to go screw, and MSN said "hah, watch us pull the plug". So, basically, Trillian etc will be forced to sign an agreement forking over xx% of their [gross/net/whatever] sales, the business world will perhaps do a little more than yawn, and the sun will rise tomorrow...meanwhile, Instant Messaging Planet will generate a dozen news stories and at least one conference over the whole thing ;-)
* let's drop the persecution complex, for crissakes- companies do things for one reason, and one reason only- to MAKE MONEY, not join The Man in fucking open source over.
Please help metamoderate.
MS have the right to do whatever they want with their IM. They created it and it's their business. Besides, their EULA probably also gives them the right to burn your computer and rape your sister, so might as well cope with it... However, what is disapointing is that microsoft somehow forged its place among IM users (and somehow dislodged ICQ), and now they are, as usual, simply abusing the users they got from a free service in order to force them to play by their own rules and probably to pay later. And this happens just a few weeks after their new avatar/eye-candy-ish MSN 6.0, just enough time to let people become addicted to this crap (hey... it's realy cool!) Another disapointing thing is that I got 7 e-mails from microsoft about this new "rule" of theirs - the same day I read that there's a new worm in town sending fakemails. Well, the mails ended up in the junk folder. Very unprofessional. I can hardly believe that it was not the worm... So, they're doing it for "security issues"? Yeah, like they're about security anyway... And like MSN messenger is secure... I should stop whining, because someone WILL find a way to use older versions of MSN or Gain, or whatever on their network anyway. By the way, among home Windows user, did anyone realy pay for anything from microsoft anyway? Should anyone complain?...
You are more than the sum of what you consume. Desire is not an occupation.
Suprise! Micro$oft is doing weird ass shit again in the name of "security."
I know a lot of people use the MSN messanger, but please...If you don't like what they're doing let them know by not using their product.
What advantages are there to using MSN messanger over AOL IM anyway? With the upcoming deregulation of AOL IM by the FCC we may have a better messanging product (from another evil, though *seemingly* less cryptic corporation.)
And the myopic viewpoint:
Do you really want Microsoft to read your instant messages anyway?
who exactly is buying "Trusted Computing"
Doesn't everyone? You buy stuff off people you don't trust do you? If companies have to tell you they're honest they usally arn't. Take "Honest Joe's Software Co", if there stuff was good they'd just call it "Joe's Software Co".
Microsoft will be shutting down this security and spam risk as well, right? Seeing as how they are security concious all of a sudden. Or maybe they'd care to fix this problem, labelled a major security issue by the FBI. Or perhapse this URL exploit in SP1?
Come on, MS. You can do better this blatant attempt to isolate your market under the guise of a security issue, especially when there are so many more important ones that have been left lying around for so long now...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I don't watch MSN's security flaws very closely (an almost impossible task from what i have seen) but it seems to me that the security flaws are in their client, not thier servers. In fact, i've heard of only a few successful breakins to microsoft's core messaging servers (probably because i stopped watching around the time they started swtiching to windows for their servers.)
Please keep in my that my ADHD keeps me a little scatter brained and I sometimes can't focus long enough to
You know, the LAST time they said this, you either had to agree to an NDA that precluded an OSS implementation. The "formal agreements" there were pretty clearly only for other commercial (because of the licensing fee) & closed source vendors.
I have for the past few months being trying to consolidate my personality into a few well defined slivers ...
- handling different email identities with a single email package has helped a lot, and the fact that I can receive messages from different boxes, and send messages from different boxes - all from a single application is godsent
... MS has a product called Outlook which dominates the market ..
- I also am warming up to password management programs so that I have fewer passwords to forget
... MS came up with something that was supposed to help me - PASSPORT
- I am trying to consolidate my "buddy" personalities into a manageable interface, and Trillian helps me. Now, wouldn't it be nice if MS came up with a product like they have done for earlier needs. But, no sir, they got nothing in this category. So, what do they do. They try to destroy the entire category.
I think this is unfair. I think this is injust. I think this is immoral.And I think it is worse.
Instead of helping me manage my different identities, MS is actually doing the opposite. MS is driving me to multiple personalities. MS is driving me to schizophrenia. This, I think is just, so, wrong.
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
ICQ isn't quite doing the same thing, but I can't log in with an older version of the ICQLite client because it says I need to upgrade. The new version, of course, has huge ads everywhere...
Username taken, please choose another one.
oops, /. didn't like the < sign in the subject line. That should read "MSN protocols < 8.0"
First off...doesn't everything microsoft makes have security issues? AOL did something similar to this some time ago. They changed their software so that third-party clients could not connect. So, third-party clients patched their software to overcome this. Is it possible for microsoft to lock down msn messanger? Doubt it, but you never know. Sux.
I'm amazed that there isn't a single person on Slashdot who can figure this out. I hear plenty of conspiracy theories about how Microsoft wants to maintain their marketshare (for a free piece of software?) or that they don't want the protocol in the public domain (here's a hint: the APIs are all documented at MSDN Library) or that somehow this is some evil ploy to enslave all those people who couldn't just go use another FREE IM network. None of it withstands the test of logic.
The only thing, and I mean the ONLY THING this is about is preventing the sort of widespread IM Spam garbage that permeates other IM networks. Messenger has always been top notch at this in the past, but if they don't lock down the service to known, registered client programs, it's just a matter of time until someone creates a high volume IM spambot (if they haven't already).
I'll have to get my parents to switch to ICQ but that shouldn't be a problem.
Yeah mom just ignore the porn spam.
How is this any different to when AOL broke the AIM protocol to stop gaim and trillian connecting?
I remember Microsoft then calling for open standards. This was when MSN Messenger was only a fledgling service and not widely adopted.
Just another backflip from not only a large corporation, but Microsoft. Again, only acting in their best interests - which is fair enough, they are a business. But I think the biggest problem we have is how they go about doing their business, the FUD, etc... etc.... etc....
This kind of measures only will isolate MSN users from the others, of course, unless the updated protocol is widely implemented by alternative software. If people have the choice to connect to the world, or just to MSN users, hopely will swich to more open alternatives.
They are only blocking OLDER versions of the protocol. The article misrepresented the intent of the bulletin.
This is true... Try to create a product which implements the SCC interface for Source Control.. Even some companies can't use it because the nasty legal agreement bundled with an NDA making you not even acknowledge that there is this API doesn't fly with some corporate legal departments.
This is a story, it's just dressed up all pretty by MS to make it look like nothing.
"Nothing to see here, move along" - Officer Barbrady
Wiehie! ...
Finally i got an excuse ignoring all those msn-bitches in my contact-list.
"Sorry, haven't got msn...., some other time maybe,"
Aah, internet will be so quit when msn has finally gone
- Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Various MS-centric websites have and do block access to 3rd party clients...
Not saying this won't be different, but I wouldn't put it past them...
smash.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I just emailed my (few) MSN Messenger friends with a link to the article. I informed them that on the date that gaim no longer works with MSN Messenger protocol, I will no longer be able to communicate with them, unless they go with another protocol. As far as I am concerned, since I have AOL, Y!, ICQ, and Sametime at work, there is no excuse for them not being able to communicate with me. Goodbye MSN... if you want to close your network off thats fine with me. You bring nothing to the party, and offer nothing so great that I need you, your client, or your protocol. Bye bye. If my friends need to talk to me, they'll use one of the myriad of other methods.
Doesn't really surprise me that M$ and M$N would do anything they can to require people to use there products.
Can't provide a reference on this, but the rumor is that they are discontinuing Outlook Express, requiring people to use the MSN Email client in it's place (and therefore be an MSN user). If true, which I believe it is, that's pretty weak.
-- [Sig] Rome did not create a great empire by negotiation; They did it by killing everyone who opposed them.
Besides, she's used to ignoring the porn spam. She has a Hotmail account.
In recent years MSN has been (for me anyway) the most common IM to give and take from people you meet travelling. There is little hope to convince many of these people to switch to another protocol (ICQ or something) as I have enough trouble convincing people from work that there are other decent alternatives (for me gaim on linux rocks, not so much though on windows). I mean, it still is great to be able to chat to these buddies across the globe. Is there any hope with my less geeky friends, or do i have to go back to writing group emails (which then get trashed by hotmails crap junk filter) ?
I use SCOIM and it was only $699!
Maybe the config of that was the problem? Which port does Trillian use? Is that different to ICQ and MSN?
Could it be the server at the other end? ie I chat with someone else that has a similar config.
Why did ICQ work but not Trillian (another IT mystery).
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
mycomputer\controlpanel\addremoveprograms\msnmessa nger
Click add remove and put up with the are usual "are you really sure you want to do this Dave?" routine. Bingo no more problems. If that doesn't work cfdisk the rest of the shit starting with any ms format file systems like ntfs, or fat32 etc you will be amazed at the amount of wasted space you had on your computer!
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
...when you have to rely on the nation of ignorant meatheads running $299 Windows PCs to be aware of them and make sure they're installed.
Microsoft took out full-page ads in several major newspapers on Tuesday, imploring the great unwashed masses to run Windows Update to get the Blaster patch. So obviously, even they know that the mere existence of the patch is not enough.
~Philly
Hands up who is surprised. It's standard business practice for MS.
Hands up who is surprised. It's standard business practice for MS.
Gates calls on FCC to examine AIM (ZDnet)18 Dec 2000 - Microsoft chairman Bill Gates telephoned the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission last week to urge a close examination of America Online's dominance in instant messaging, a Microsoft representative confirmed.
Leading Technology and Instant Messaging Companies Form IMUnified (The Devil Himself) - One of the things that makes this coalition so exciting is the opportunity to work together and learn from each other so that we can create a system that is even more private and more secure than what is available today, said Yusuf Mehdi, vice president of MSN at Microsoft Corp.
AT this stage, I think we are only at stage 6 of the product lifecycle. Although the IETF announced Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) almost a year ago, IBM and Microsoft have promoted a separate standard known as SIMPLE (SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions). As IM becomes more important in the corporate sector the issue really starts to revolve around this proposed standard and the conditions under which it will be available or licenced.
Stopping myself...Abort (core dumped)
Arghh... there is too much posting about this, and there is no response from Gaim yet. I'm going to wait and see.
Did any of you ever even once stop to think that maybe that particular protocol IS insecure?
Last year, my friend went through the MSN messenger API and found all sorts of goodies. Within a few minutes, he was sending messages as if they were from other people. He played jokes on us for a little while, striking up weird conversations out of the blue.
Think before you open your mouth.
So, there's still some hope. The code to GAIM is freely availeable for Microsoft to audit, so theres at least a small chance they will certify it as not being a "security risk".
Ah, but microsoft considers the GPL a virus, remember? Microsoft probably considers letting a GPL'd program (i.e. a virus) access their messenger to be the biggest security threat of all! (That explains why they don't have any energy left to do much about the closed-source viruses that rape their software (or, more accurately, users of their software).)
>We are out in the cold.
It won't be gaim users that are out in the cold, it will be those that are beholden to MSN Messenger.
Funny all the ways Microsoft is finding to push people away from their products. There next big idea will probably to start charging people for Internet Explorer. (I guess they soft of already do with Windows)
And we all know how Microsoft combats viruses. ;)
The unofficial
on October 16th third party applications will once again work with msn network through the illegal ways of reverse engineering.
kthanksbye
Microsoft isn't trying to shut out all clients but their own, they are now only allowing SSL connections, so IMs will be encrypted in transit.
RFC1459 is still being heavily implemented; it is open source, secure, in current use, and fits the online dialogue needs of millions every day.
--
There is no hatred more pure and true than that expressed by children.
We'll see... Don't decide our fate until we do ;)
Have you tried to solve this issue? I do not have it and I run a server most users use with transports.
I hope it's just coincidence that my Mozilla just stopped being able to login to Hotmail.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
I don't care. The minute amsn stop working I'll give away my @hotmail and @msn accounts.
'Tis but another reason to move completely away from Microsoft.
Bring on Jabber, I say.
If going fully MS-free isn't practical (I know for some unfortunate souls that to be true), your friends and relatives can be shown how even under windows, it is possible to drasticly reduce your dependence on them just by changing the applications you use (or in this case, networks you subscribe to).
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
While Microsoft does say that they'll "prevent third-party software from accessing their networks", and while Gaim is third party, I don't think it will take Gaim long to re-implement a protocol.
:)
The only way I can see Microsoft truly breaking third party support, is if they break support with all of their earlier clients - as this is what the third party software emulates.
But even if they do break that support, Gaim'll eventually implement a fix. It may take a while (about a month or longer I'd wager) but I'm damn sure they'll be able to do it.
Besides, breaking MSN support would be monopolistic of Microsoft. Not like that's new however.
Yep, I got spammed as well. 10 or 12 emails at least. And I actually have the latest version of MS Messenger already, even though I don't use it. I'm a die-hard trillian fan.
appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars
Always read the fine print. If Microsoft addes this particular clause to operating systems, everyone might be forced to utter "Hail Palladium" when the push came to shove. /dev/hda
, and installing Something Else.
No no no, we'll be backing up our data and uttering "Fuck Palladium", # shred -z
-insert a witty something-
It's not like Microsoft's network does a much better job of sending text or files ANYWAY...the text gets across no matter what client you're using.
-insert a witty something-
(Posting anonymously for obvious reasons.)
right - because NOBODY here would use pirated software, or illegal MP3s or pirated divx encoded movies...
I signed up with the new MS Messenger service for their "$1,000 a day" contest, now I can dispose of it again and go back to Trillian.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
You're forgetting that Microsoft has to play catchup with AOL when it comes to IM market share.
If Linux users want to do all the work of support MSN for them, I don't see MS having anything to lose right now. If MS was in AOL's position, then I could see them shutting out the Linux people making sense. But if someone is willing to help you fight a war that you're losing, why fight them?
I just put up a page that describes the situation slightly and mentions what we can and can't do about it. Please read it before asking us on IRC. We're getting flooded with questions.
I think Microsoft's profit comes sooner, somewhere between steps 5 and 6:
[5] wait for competition to die off
[5.5] PROFIT!!!
[6?] China decides to make it's own impementation
cpeterso
So, there's still some hope. The code to GAIM is freely availeable for Microsoft to audit, so theres at least a small chance they will certify it as not being a "security risk".
I wish. I think the probability that Microsoft would certify a GPL software package for use with their network is only slightly higher than the chance Microsoft would releasing Microsoft Office 2003 under the GPL.
My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!
No one need Microsoft-using friends because no one needs Microsoft.
Do you think someone with a sig like mine could miss this post?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
you forgot:
[X?]Profit!!!!
I live in Soviet Canuckistan you insensitive clod!
I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent rules dropped against AOL. Also here's a nice tidbit from MS..
"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after Oct. 15," Sundwall said. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."
Let me rephrase a bit of that.
"We would encourage those thrid parties to contact us to work out payments by which they can drive away your customers"
I've also heard a rumor that a new version of MSN messenger yet unnannounced will include the ability to work in a similar manner of Trillian which allows you to consolidate all popular IM Programs into one program. I have no way to verify this "Rumor" but it's really hard to say MS wouldnt do it.
Has anyone else heard otherwise?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
What M$ makes it a pain in the ass to IRC?
[6]People get sick of software that does not work.
[7]Microsoft dies.
You are realy between 6 and 7.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
If Trillian Pro can reverse-engineer it, why not someone else?
it's green.
Next its going to be - "you may not access your hotmail account using Browsers other than IE 5.0 +"
So MS doesn't want 3rd party clients on their network, I say "so what"...
Linux users don't want to run Microsoft OS's - why they heck should they care that they can access the messenger network?
I think it's time we started asking our friends to use something like Jabber. Why we should we adapt to them? Want to IM with me? Okay, fine, go grab any one of the Win32 jabber clients. Done.
Personally, I'm going to do more than that. My company (at least 600 users) wants IM. I've already done a proof on concept with Jabber and lots of different clients. I'm pissed at MS now, I might have waited for us to do Exchange 2000, and it's free IM stuff, but now I'll make sure we do Jabber out of spite. Enough of us do that, and MS will notice.
In a nut shell, we should change the system from within - Fuck MS's IM network. Think RMS style on this one. Start taking MSN support out of free clients ON PURPOSE before MS takes it away.
BTW, I run an MS netowrk , complete with NT, Exchange, IIS, and most of our users on a2k/TermServ/Citrix Farm. I really don't mind using their software at work to run File sharing/Email/Word Processing/Etc. It just freaks me out when I see so many Linux users getting upset about not being able to use a closed network along with users who use a non-free MS product.
So, do you think this is just another finger in Apples's eye after killing IE Mac? M$ really wants to isolate their users. It's a huge mistake in a world that's used to open networks and standardized communications protocals.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
No, there's plenty of software worth buying. Games and Star Office come to mind. Some people even sell ISOs that you could download and burn yourself. I bought a Zaurus, mostly for the fact that it came with Linux on it and I could get Open Zaurus, which rocks. Free software is like that.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Microsoft reserves the right to replace, modify or upgrade the SOFTWARE at any time by offering you a replacement or modified version of the SOFTWARE or such upgrade and to charge for such replacement, modification or upgrade.
That is unbelievable. They think they can just charge you what they feel like when they feel like because you use their goofey IM client. Nuts, it must be part of their new forced update OS revenue scheme. That pluss Paladium will make the old upgrade train abuse look trivial. Fuck that company.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
My girlfriend got about 20 copies of it. and gets a new copy of it whenever she logs on using her messenger (v3.5). She tried using the latest version she could( thats 4.6 as she has Windows 95, yes she has a 233MMX & a whopping 32meg of ram.) But that was getting *MAJOR* connectivity issues in that the software would barf and not be able to talk to anyone else online. Seems that i may have to slice her pc open and try makin it a itty bit faster so it can run a later peice of Microsoft bloatware, oh im sorry "Operating system". Windows XP be damned, i wouldnt go past 2000, maybe even keep her on windows 98 *shudder*.
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
I don't think you dislike Jabber... I think you tried one or two, probably half-baked, clients and disliked those.
A couple years ago, I tried quite a few Jabber clients for Windows 98 (including at least Winjab and JIM), but I disliked them because they ate a sizable chunk of System Resources (that is, the 64 KB gdi.exe and user.exe heaps inherent in Windows 9x) and crashed quite often. Has this been fixed in the newer Jabber clients for Windows? Is Exodus any better?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I've also heard a rumor that a new version of MSN messenger yet unnannounced will include the ability to work in a similar manner of Trillian which allows you to consolidate all popular IM Programs into one program. I have no way to verify this "Rumor" but it's really hard to say MS wouldnt do it.
Yeah, and I bet that they will be parsing the frak out of ever IM that passes through their gateway.
no thanks.
gaim-e for me please!
I use Al's Messenger on Linux because Msn Messenger doesn't exist. Some people I talk to only use Msn Messenger. Since I use my Linux computer most of the time, it will be a pain to pop over to the Windows computer to send a message to some people. I hope Microsoft goes out of business!
Volunteer Mozilla developer, RPI Student.
Confession: I am a cheap b@st@rd with my home PC. It is a P-100 running Win98, and it does all I ask of it - IRC, web surfing, and occassional light MS office work.
Why does a text based chat program have a recommended system that is at least a Pentium running at 500MHz+?
If it was doing PGP encryption on the chatting, or was doing something more impressive than parsing text at a rate far less than 100 words per minute I could see the need for some processing power, but this looks like (yet another) bloat for no great increase in utility.
System Requirements for Version 6.0Minimum System Requirements:
Multimedia PC with 233MHz processor or faster (500MHz recommended)
Microsoft Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows Millenium, or Windows XP operating system
Minimum 64MB of RAM (128MB recommended)
Up to 50MB of hard disk space needed to install -- after install, up to 15MB may be needed
256-color VGA or higher resolution graphics card (SVGA recommended)
Minimum 800x600 screen resolution
Microsoft(R) Internet Explorer version 5.01 or later must be installed on your computer, though it does not need to be your default browser
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
If you've ever seen MSN's network protocol, it is intentionally designed to be easy to program for (It's all in UTF-8 text), so I don't think upgrading Trillian and Gaim should be very hard for those guys (mind you, these are the guys who reverse-engineered the OSCAR protocal, the most backward, confusing protocol I've ever seen in my life; programming for it is like being ruthlessly beaten by a street gang)
1p}{ 1 sp34k |33+ +|-|e|\| p30p13 \/\/il| 8e i/\/\pr3553|)
This is +5 interesting? A cheap shot at Microsoft on /. is interesting? I though we wanted them to be more conscious of security.
Thanks for the link to the jdev archive. I found this url in one of the posts discussing the new msn 8/9 protocol. Looks interesting.
From the site's main page: "This website is intended to be an unofficial guide to the MSN Messenger protocol. It is written primarily for programmers that want to utilize the MSN Messenger protocol in software."
I must have gotten that damn message 20 times. Was there any reason behind the 'snafu' that caused people to get the message so often?
Incidentally, my other hotmail account didn't even get the message once.
This is left as an exercise for the reader.
While it stikns, I can;t understand how so many ppl out there are talking as if they have some inherent right to use Microsoft's servers. In fact I think they would be within their rights to sue people using unauthorised third-party clients for theft-of-service
Well, I'm a Chinese. There's a more awlful software called OICQ here, which has a hugh amount of nasty ads. It also urges user to receive unwanted messages(on various lousy product). What's worse, OICQ runs only on windows.
I agree, grandparent was overated...
The unofficial
Who cares? Drop MSN and their messenger. It is a joke anyway. Use Jabber of GAIM or Yahoo or anyone else you know.
As Clausewitz said, "fixed fortifications are a monumnet to the stupidity of man."
Microsoft is just building a moat around their customers to protect their revenue stream. That never works.
All Ad hominem replies happily ignored as the sender shall be deemed to lack the faculties to comprehend the equation.
If you transport it through the local machine, know what data should be going out, and what data should be received... you really should be able to decode what's going on.
I've never really figured out the difficulty in this, although I've not tried (yet). Netstat to figure out what server/port are being connected to... redirect that host to a local address (local PC or LAN)... ensure that the end recipient is on said LAN. Log all input/output from the either client as it goes through redirection, and then have it forwarded right back on to the proper destination.
Eventually with enough time and logs (and you know almost exactly what the logs should represent as far as outgoing data) then it should be decipherable.
Of course, the other concept is that MS really isn't much up on security - so chances are that somebody will be able to crack this easily enough anyhow.
Check out the news archive at Trillian's website.
A long while back, Trillian got an impromptu upgrage because MS was changing the network and was letting Cerulean Studios in on it. They say unauthorized third-party clients, meaning there exist some that ARE authorized, or at least less of a security threat.
Heck, Trillian has blowfish encryption on SecurIM!
> So a company can spend millions of dollars
o problem.
> developing software and protocols, running servers,
> paying for bandwidth and then they have the gall to
> claim that every Joe Blow can't piggy back off of their
> service!! How dare they!
Well as long as they nearly threaten people with new XP installations to FINALLY get a passport account and sign on to messanger, they are *again* misusing their position in the operating system market to push their services. They should at least let other clients interoperate with them, which they in fact do. kopete.kde.org still works fine with msn.
>Sheesh... another Slashdot MS is evil rant fest. Let me
> know when there's a free Jabber server for public
> logins...
No problem, here is a nice list.
http://www.jabber.org/user/publicservers.php
N
This whole thing smacks of the time AOL sued Microsoft for "hacking" on to their network with the MSN messenger service. There was a big hulubaloo, and then it was over.
As far as Gaim goes,
Linux programs have never had trouble impersonating microsoft ones. It seems logical to me that anything they do would be easy to overcome.
Besides,
MSN messenger is bottom rung anyway. If you're really concerned about having a an instant messenger for Linux, why not use ICQ?
This signature has Super Cow Powers
And then I'll pull the winning lotto ticket outta my backside...
What I haven't seen here are messages about Yahoo porting its messenger to a couple of Unix flavours. One of the developers even maintains a nice FAQ! The current version (1.0) works like a charm, with RPM and deb packages available. The next version 1.1 will probably support webcams.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
MSN messenger takes 20 seconds to load, and takes about 3x as much RAM as .NET Messenger. As long as they don't make me stop using .NET messenger, I'm happy.
Security risks include loss of ad revenue.
Besides, MSN messenger is bottom rung anyway. If you're really concerned about having a an instant messenger for Linux, why not use ICQ?
Because my employment requires me to use MSN messenger?
The other people in our small organization had already more or less standardized on MSN before I came along. They are already very accomodating to my needs by letting MSN be our primary means of communication aside from email, and there is no way I could ever expect them to switch messaging programs. Its bad enough they can't pick up the phone and call me.
I do contract web development jobs, which are all passed on to me by one specific company, in Canada. But after doing this for a while up there, I decided there was no reason I couldn't do the exact same thing from Mexico, with a high speed cable connection. The only problem is that the long distance is prohibitively expensive, at about 76 cdn cents / minute.
For this reason MSN messenger is very important for me. Plus, I have been using Linux exclusively for 6 years, come this labour day weekend. Everything I do work wise is 100% Linux related, mostly MySQL & PHP on Linux servers. I need Linux running locally, I could never go back to Windows.
So what do you suggest I do? Ask everyone else I work with, albeit remotely, to switch to another service just for me??
Right now I use Gaim. For me, the message logging is also another very important benefit of using Gaim as oppossed to the Microsoft version. I need the logs to remember the conversations and what ever little things they asked to have done, although of course big descriptions are sent through email but the little modifications they mention over MSN, I need to remember these. And as far as I know the Microsoft version does not support any logging features.
When they refer to security, it wouldn't surprise me if they are concerned about the third party clients having these logging features. I know some people are pretty surprised when I quote old conversations. Could it not be thought of as a security concern if people don't think their conversations can be logged, when in fact they can be by third party clients?
Eh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
It's Microsoft, remember?
Repeat After Me :
"AOL Instant Messenger"
What with AOL being the worlds biggest ISP, I think they might have a few users.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
It would be the logical step, right?
Don't worry Linux guys... whatever MS do
I can assure you that It can be hacked
Remember DVD encryption?
Come on! Have faith!
Wine can help too...
The code to GAIM is freely availeable for Microsoft to audit, so theres at least a small chance they will certify it as not being a "security risk".
:)
No offense, but are you smoking crack?
MS will never, ever endorse gaim. You see, Microsoft is something of a Monopoly, and they have demonstrated many times over that if they are given a choice, they will always try to tie things into their own OS and screw over the users of other OS's.
What I'm getting at here is that gaim is a product that allows you to use MSN messaging without having to pay for Windows. Therefore, Microsoft hates gaim. MS has tried in the past to constantly break their IM protocol so that gaim (and other third party IM users) would be SOL. I think they've mostly given up on that tactic lately, as it has been largely futile (the open source developers have been able to reverse engineer it too quickly for it to be worth the bother).
Frankly, I'd be glad if MS prevented me from having MSN on my gaim list. All it means is one less ugly, proprietary messaging protocol on my contact list. I'll just tell all my friends to use Jabber if they really want to contact me (or email for that matter).
Now I just need to convince that one guy that uses AIM to get Jabber, and I'll be able to take AIM off my contact list too
I phoned MS support after getting that email (I have MS Gamevoice, which only works wirth Messenger up to 4.6)
They told me on the phone it was a virus email.
Why are your co-workers using a consumer messaging client at work? Do you have any idea how dangerous that is?
Aside from the fact that you could be leaking propriatary information to the world (via microsoft product, who's have thunk?), it's NOT designed for that.
If you're concerned about asking people to change their client, they should probably change their client anyway. Microsoft logs everything on their consumer networks, and they make no promises to keep your information confidential.
Read their TOS.
For this purpose, you're much better off with the
Novell instant messenger, I think lotus has one too, or something that was specifically designed for a work place situation. Unless you like the risks associated with running on a consumer oriented network.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
I am not smoking crack, all I did was point out that because Gaim's position in this matter is reasonable (M$ can view the source if it feels like it), then there is at least a chance they will allow Gaim to keep compatibility.
:rolleyes:
> What I'm getting at here is that gaim is a product that allows you to use MSN messaging without having to pay for Windows.
Oh, of course! MSN Messenger is one of Windows' main selling points...
Well I happen to use Gaim with Windows at work, because I like it better than MSN Messenger.
The unofficial
MSN6 does logging into XML.
"Taligent is still pure vapor. Maybe they'll be the last who jumps up on Openstep... "
A lot of people have been asking about whether MS's latest decisions regarding MSN will affect us. Here's the general information on what they're doing.
;) Then they can continue to talk to their MSN friends, but move to Jabber or another protocol.
MS has decided that everyone should upgrade to MSN version 5.0 or higher. MSN v5 is the first to use their MSN Protocol v8, which is the first to use SSL for login. Now, we know how to login over this. This is not hard, and we will be supporting MSNP9, the latest version of the protocol, soon.
However, upgrading to this does not guarantee us anything. Whereas previously, Microsoft has let third party clients connect, they now require a license for doing so. They still encourage clients to connect to their network, so with any luck, we can work something out. If not, people may find a way to connect anyway, but the legalities of this are pretty obvious. Key words: "Intellectual Property" and "DMCA."
We cannot give a yes or a no to the question, "Will Gaim continue to work after October 15th?" (Which, btw, is the day that third party clients not using MSNP8 or higher will be unable to connect). We will do our best, but if it comes down to it, we will drop MSN support. If you have a lot of friends on MSN, perhaps it's the time to migrate them. Get them to install Gaim
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
M$ might help out for a FEE or sign under an NDA leaving gaim stuck to reverse engineering still..
I too am concerned about gaim getting blocked. For more information, read GAIM's Official Statement about this matter.
/usr/bin/complain >
Heck, I'll have to update my msnp.py!
Stop bitching about Microsoft for a change. Microsoft is the only "commercial" IM provider that has been in favour of a standard protocol for IM. They published this draft in 1999, a complete spec of the MSN Messenger 1.0 Protocol.
Gaim's position in this matter is reasonable (M$ can view the source if it feels like it), then there is at least a chance they will allow Gaim to keep compatibility.
:rolleyes:
First of all: Using the term M$ makes you look childish at best.
Secondly, Microsoft is the same company that called the GPL viral, and communist (in case you hadn't noticed). The chances of them turning around on this issue are slim to none.
MSN Messenger is one of Windows' main selling points...
There's a reason that there's no linux port for the official MSN Messenger client. Hint: It's the same reason there's no linux port of Internet Explorer, Outlook, or Office, either. You're right, people don't buy Windows just for MSN Messenger, but it's an added value thing: MS has nothing to gain by allowing people who don't use windows to use Messenger. If it was only possible to use MSN on Windows, Gates would be a happy, happy man. It would be just one more reason for people not to switch away from Windows. It's all about proprietary lock-in.
Well I happen to use Gaim with Windows at work, because I like it better than MSN Messenger.
And I happen to use Gaim with Linux at home, because I like it better than any other IM client I've tried. What's your point?
Frankly, I'm just hoping for a time when there is only one IM protocol, and that IM clients can compete on features/usability, not protocols (much like email clients or web browsers). Preferably the Jabber protocol could fill this role.
19: Do you plan to support plaform foo? ..etc..etc.. binaries.
:)
Where
It is unlikely that we would ever build a Caldera/SCO version, however.
hehe funny
There's nothing childish about M$ but if you want to think otherwise, fine. It is a good abreviation and I'll use it whenever I do not feel like typing "Microsoft." (MS is reserved for multiple sclerosis)
/. will cover when the time comes.
Anyway my point was Gaim is a cross platform application that runs on Windows as well as Linux. M$ should not (emphasize should not) feel obligated to compete with it.
Whether they end up doing so (for obvious monopolistic reasons) is a future story, one that I am sure
The unofficial
I don't know why I'm explaining myself to an AC, but here goes, just for fun:
He hasn't done anything with his account that would warrant me putting him in my friends list, but he is the lucky user who got the 700,000 UID. Note his name -- seven00kay, or 700k. I rather suspect it's a junk account, somebody who just wanted the 700,000 UID as a novelty, but won't actually do anything with the account. In that case, it's kind of a waste, so he's on my foes list for now.
Unless you're him, posting anonymously. In that case, SCREW YOU! Make your account worth it, biatch!
(MS is reserved for multiple sclerosis)
Lol, speaking of multiple sclerosis, there's a great billboard in the subway tunnels in my city. It says something like "Every penny counts in the fight to stop MS." I know they obviously mean multiple sclerosis, but it's kinda funny to think that there's an organization taking donations whose sole purpose is to destroy Microsoft.
Anyway, it's possible for acronyms to have multiple expansions. Take ATM, for example: Adobe Type Manager, Automatic Teller Machine, and I'm sure there's a few hundred more. Just like how MS is Microsoft, and Multiple Sclerosis. Get over it.
Anyway my point was Gaim is a cross platform application that runs on Windows as well as Linux.
Well, yeah. A lot of open source apps run on windows. Microsoft won't see that as a redeeming feature; I use gaim to talk to my MSN buddies every day, and I'm sure it bothers MS that I'm using their servers and their network without having paid for a copy of windows.
Well, it is not like the MSN protocol specification has been open earlier, which didn't stop developers from making third party clients. I see no reason why the same people shouldn't be able to reverse engineer the protocol specs once more.
The question you should ask yourself is why MS is going this very public about "closing" their protocol.
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The combined human population is enough to feed every living tiger for app. 28000 years.
> I'm sure it bothers MS that I'm using their servers and their network without having paid for a copy of windows.
Just like it bothers Time Warner that people use AIM without having subscribed to AOL?
I don't think your point is valid.. MSN messenger and AIM are free clients because they are trying to get exposure to as many users as possible.
Consider:
AIM ---> AOL as an ISP
MSN Messenger ---> MSN as an ISP
Both are natural transitions...
A Linux user with Gaim really shouldn't be showing up on Redmond's potential customer radar.
The unofficial
Who cares! You (and your contacts) should be using jabber anyway so that you can avoid manipulations like this.
It's not hard for Microsoft to detect public jabber msn transports (regardless of the protocol)- they could be scanned for like open irc proxies.
I got that email about 20 times, i couldnt understand it - everything in my head was telling me it was just a spam/hoax/virus but it made no sense - there were no attachments, no-one wanted my password or details, and they didnt try to link me to any dodgy sites to download things (well except sites on microsofts domain which is pretty dodgy at the moment), this was after reading an article on the blaster worm which said something like "this is why microsoft's policy is to never solicit upgrades or patches through email"
If its all true and they are forcing an upgrade, im going to have to go without MSN for a month while someone hacks the new protocal for gaim...
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
You might as well take advanteage of it:
Security-vulnerable software == shorter backwards-compatibility requirements.
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
How may stupid decisions can a company make, and just how terrible a company must one be before the people that support you get the picture and leave.
it should have happened to ms a long time ago -- every competitor they have makes a better product then them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_c
The DMCA has provisions excluding reverse engineering for interoperability. Different client sounds like interoperability to me.
We'd like them to be more conscious of it in their own code first. Since that hasn't yet happened, accusations from Microsoft against lack of security in third-party code that they probably haven't even seen can hardly be considered plausible. Furthermore, since it should technically be possible for anybody to "fake" an MS Messenger client and thus do all kinds of damage, perhaps they should instead concentrate on making their servers secure so that the client is unimportant.
GreyPoopon
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Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Oh, of course! MSN Messenger is one of Windows' main selling points... :rolleyes:
Close. Messsenger is a big part of MS Office 2003. Their intention is to strongly link messenger email and the entire office suite to encourage colloboration.
I wasn't aware of that one.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
Thats right along with Hotmail it's just a matter of time till M$ decide you need to PAY to use the services. It seems hotmail keeps losing features everyday, until eventually you won't even be able to read e-mails with it unless you pay... I can see IM going the same way, then it wouldn't matter which client you use, you'd still need a subscription. It's ok though, they'll say its for security reasons, I mean, if everyone's paying, it MUST be secure, right?
I spent ages trying to think of sig, but never did
I Think the Security is to set up a DMCA case against 3d parties.. Reference that use of the act for garage door openers.
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http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/16
Here the software which was copyrighted had a security feature that a competitor for a universal remote exploited. They closed them out of some big contracts by using copyrighted security feature circumvention and DCMA. Thats why they are doing this. To set up to use the DCMA against users of their system.
Take ATM, for example: Adobe Type Manager, Automatic Teller Machine, and I'm sure there's a few hundred more.
Really? Acronym Finder can find only seventy. If you can think of more, they accept submissions.
For comparison, it has 130 meanings for MS, and Microsoft is number 5.
I got over 15 messages from them.
This is pretty bad news. I wonder if this is the first step in the process of charging for MSN messenger usage.
Now why would they charge for MSN messenger usage? I just recently got an email that Bill Gates was gonna give me a ton of money just for forwarding it to test his email tracking system, and apparently from what I've seen, he's got a similar experiment going on for people who forward messages with MSN messenger. They're going to pay us to use it, not expect us to pay!
If he only answers via MSN?
Disclaimer: If I disagree with you I'm probably trolling...
maybe even keep her on windows 98
My windoze box still runs 98SE...and guess what, I was happily immune last week. Security thru obsolescence...joyjoy
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
Microsoft is simply testing the limits of the rules, and then playing by them. If it's okay if AOL shuts out Microsoft, then Microsoft can shut out AOL. Makes sense to me. AOL, of course, is doing the same thing. The rules of the game including legislating your bottom line, so why not do so? The money doesn't care if it's wrong, and shareholders want profits. Not to mention officers :P
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The MSN Messenger protocol tried to get opened a long, long, time ago, when Microsoft was trying to make it the big standardised open standard (i.e. around the time AOL was being reamed in court for being proprietary about this sort of thing)
r -protocol-00.txt
m l
http://www.abraxis.co.uk/draft-movva-msn-messenge
This was because of involvement with these guys:
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/impp-charter.ht
But they took a slightly different direction.
Of course it lapsed and the spec for the current protocol additions is hidden, but then it's a fairly plaintext protocol, uses XML & HTTP for auxiliary functions, so it's nothing you can't find out with Ethereal.
One thing I am wondering, though, is MSNP9 SSL for logins only, or is it SSL for the entire protocol? It will definitely be nice not to have some bastard snooping on my Messenger traffic if the latter is true, and it certainly doesn't stop people from snooping the traffic on a legitimate connection (i.e. Gaim connects, logs in, dumps all protocol traffic to a file so people can look at it..)
Ah well.
Hmm, I always thought that Trillian used code from gaim or Meredydd's libmsn2.
I've heard that the gaim devels did help them out in moving to the new Yahoo protocol when the old one stopped working.
There's also proteus that uses code from GPLed projects, and does comply with the GPL (by releasing that portion under the GPL). I find it odd that these guys use GPLed code, but never acknowledge the original authors.
Do not underestimate the value of print statements for debugging.
Guarantees that the client would show their advertising. Cannot be guaranteed with anything open source, obviously.
Guarantees that the client would... well, do anything, really. Not allow certain operations... report certain information to them... since anything can be changed, nothing about potential derivatives can be guaranteed.
Per-user fees. Even a fraction of a penny would mean there would have to be *some* kind of charge for the client, obviously free software is screwed again.
Hell, even a single large fee per-application or per-version-upgrade could be really bad for a lot of people, since each individual small project would have trouble raising large amounts of cash.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to people who try to co-operate with them, and what happens when some of the conditions turn out to be impossible for a particular client. Of course, that client will have already drawn themselves to M$' attention... trouble could enSUE.
Close. Messsenger is a big part of MS Office 2003. Their intention is to strongly link messenger email and the entire office suite to encourage colloboration.
collaboration.. is that like having everything so tightly integrated that you can get all your viruses and spam in one nice neat package..
all yours for $399.99 ?!?
iF yOu WAnT to C YOUr iP agaIn gAThEr tWO MilLIon dOLLArS IN Non - cONsEcuTivE TweNtY's AnD AWaiT FuRThER iNstrUctIoN
icq is just a big a spam farm anyway..
iF yOu WAnT to C YOUr iP agaIn gAThEr tWO MilLIon dOLLArS IN Non - cONsEcuTivE TweNtY's AnD AWaiT FuRThER iNstrUctIoN
or you could set up an "in-house" jabber server and get away from the "bsn" clients.
( bsn = bull shit network )
iF yOu WAnT to C YOUr iP agaIn gAThEr tWO MilLIon dOLLArS IN Non - cONsEcuTivE TweNtY's AnD AWaiT FuRThER iNstrUctIoN
How long after m$ changes msn messenger that someone "reverse engineers" their system..( again ? )
Maybe we should get a big ol betting pool going?
LOL |-)
iF yOu WAnT to C YOUr iP agaIn gAThEr tWO MilLIon dOLLArS IN Non - cONsEcuTivE TweNtY's AnD AWaiT FuRThER iNstrUctIoN
This should be no big deal. Just go to work and move your contacts over to ICQ or GAIM. I have 8 business contacts that I've been very successful in moving to ICQ. If Microsoft wants to be isolated then lets help them!
I found this really neat site with a LOT of free MSN 6 icons!!! It's really cool :D
ICONPLAZA.com