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Managing Linux Systems With Webmin
The book is structured as 60 chapters, without any division into sections and I have serious arguments with the order of chapters; why are the chapters about configuring Webmin at the end, for example. That said, the book has a fine index and the usual two-level contents make it a fraction easier to find what you want.
I do, however, have a little digression about the 'Bruce Peren's Open Source Series,' of which this book is a member. Frankly, I think they all need, and deserve, a much stronger hand in editing. With this volume it is the bad structure and order; with "Intrusion Detection Systems with Snort" I found myself engrossed by the information and furious at the appalling grammar and sentence construction, particularly in the introductory chapters. The others in the series look significantly better at first glance but could still use better editing.
Once again we have an author or publisher who throws Linux into the title to make sure that it gets found by the greatest mass of likely readers while the tool described is more (not that I criticise the practice, they want to sell books.) Any *nix system can be controlled using Webmin -- including a great deal of Mac OS X not available through 'System Preferences.' Indeed, I'd recommend the tool to all OS X users who want to gain better control and install better tools for the underlying BSD layer in OS X. I use it myself for just this reason. If you run any other *nix system don't be put off by the 'Linux' in the title: very little of this book is Linux specific.
This one is well written -- Cameron has a light, informative style that I look for in a tech book. The book is well laid out, he gives good examples, good explanations and screen shots.
Cameron starts out with three introductory chapters on Webmin, its installation and security before launching into forty three chapters on using various Webmin modules, but with no real pattern to the order of most of the chapters. Why, for example, is the NFS module at chapter 4 while the Samba module is discussed in 43? I could list another half dozen examples without raising a sweat.
There is then a chapter on Usermin, the Webmin system for ordinary users. This is followed by three chapters on the server clustering system, a few on Webmin configuration and logging before the volume ends with chapters on building modules and themes.
Some of the chapters on the modules within Webmin border on merely stating the obvious, others are extremely useful. Overall they constitute a good manual to using the system, Webmin users who have not spent a great deal of time administering servers will find them particularly useful. The chapters on clustering, using Webmin on multiple servers to perform the same task at the once on many machines, are a good guide to administering and using this useful facility. I found the chapters on writing your own module more than adequate, I'm well under way to writing my first one after only a short time with the system and book.
One final complaint. Where in this book does it tell you how to start Webmin? I didn't want Webmin running from boot, so I answered No to that question and Webmin then ran. Nowhere did it tell me how to restart Webmin after I rebooted my computer and having the script 'start' in the directory specified as the config directory is a little less than intuitive.
Prentice Hall have a page for the book that has an author bio, the Preface and a sample chapter. Though this book is supposedly 'open content,' I couldn't find an electronic version anywhere. It might have helped, as it would give me a way to search the book faster.
In conclusion, this is a good book. With a little work on the structure it would be an excellent book, rising from a rating of six to an eight or nine. the lack of structure makes it unduly hard to find what you are after. I would recommend Webmin, as a tool, to almost everyone running a supported server. If you have no need for the section on clustering and writing your own modules you could buy The Book of Webmin for a few dollars less or browse the same book (even download a PDF version free) at Swelltech, which is less comprehensive but much better structured (and tells you how to restart Webmin). If you want a guide to Webmin that includes notes on writing your own module then this will do until something better comes along, or they release a second edition with greater thought to structure and order.
You can purchase Managing Linux Systems With Webmin from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Ref: Amazon has this book for $4.50 less than bn and with free shipping.
Around these parts, we call that Windows mister! And we don't like it, no sir. Devil's work I say, DEVIL'S WORK. A real man just needs a command line, his boots and his brain. Nothing more, nothing less.
Normally, books get an 8 or a 9 (nobody's perfect, and with so many books there's no reason to review a mediocre one).
Sounds like the editor may be headed for a one way trip in the candle truck, if you catch my drift.
if you can be bothered with a command prompt every time, without fail, then so be it. some of us prefer to have a choice
I find it funny that the reviewer makes specific mention of the poor grammar in the book and then goes on to show that his is no better.
Why, for example, is the NFS module at chapter 4 while the Samba module is discussed in 43?
Because NFS is a unix feature, samba is a kludgy addon to play nice with windows.
Makes perfect sense to me, though I do agree with the criticism of Perens editorial skills as a whole.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I work at an Application Web Host Provider which has been providing web services to Fortune 500 companies for the last eight or so years. We have purchased an Enterpise WebMin license (which wasn't that expensive) but overall I'm not too impressed.
Since we run Windows 2003 on all of our administrative servers it was challenge to get the underlying PHP framework properly. We also found that it would allow us to kill processes on on our Red Hat 7.2 MySQL server clusters. There was also some minor latency effect on a couple of the Sun boxes we host although it sometimes subsides after all.
I do know that the programmer is planning on extending the application to allow support to SharePoint and other server suites.
Which is nice.
If your botherd by a command prompt and feel at home with a gui, maybe your using the wrong OS.
also in addition to being a craptastic user interface, it will obfuscate your config files so that you need to use webmin.
This must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I run some apache servers, and I have a friend that runs dns on one of the boxes for me. I use his dns server, and he uses mine, so we have two each. But he's far more competent using foss software than I am, and he teaches linux 1 & 2, unix 1 & 2, and other related classes. So I lean on him for advice and knowledge.
He's helped to keep my apache and dns servers running for several years now without incident. For him to run dns for me, I've had to give him root access, and there haven't been any problems. He's insisted on some configurations for security reasons. One of the things he's insisted on is no webmin, because "it's insecure".
Can someone go over the security issues on webmin, and if they can be adequately compensated for?
You mean he should use OS/X?
Command prompts and text files have gone the way of the old-timey bikes with the big wheels.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Is that the sound of you typing in the ecommands to look for the manual pages for the insanely unintuitive and arcane commands you have to type in in order to get anything set up on your lunix station?
BOO! TERRO
Okay, no surprise that we've already got the obligatory: "CLI or DIE" posts. This is /. afterall. But, if we can put away the over zealous uberlinux advocacy for a minute, I'd like to offer some a positive defense for Webmin.
As a cat who occasionally works with at risk youth and adult computer literacy -- I personally find Webmin very useful for a simple reason... uhm, it's kind of simple. Especially when your target group is accustomed to working within Windows (and often nothing else).
Taking a kid (with a short attention span) and expecting him/her to gain immediate appreciation for a command line is like asking a republican to join you at a Pro Hemp rally -- it rarely happens, and almost never for the reasons you hope.
The same can be said for many small to mid-size business owners. They understand what they know and what they know is graphical representations of the underlying system that they use on a daily basis. Many would like to delve deeper, but simply don't have the immediate understanding of how to.
Trust me, it's far easier to take someone who thinks of linux as: that really hard to get OS, to take a shot when you can present many of the deeper OS configurations in a safe, understandable environment -- and what could be more understandable for the MTV generation than a browser?
I find it ironic that a user base as dedicated to expanding desktop acceptance and market share growth for their preferred OS would want to exclude and deride a product that provides growth potential.
----
#SickNotWeak
feh. some people can't tell the diff between troll & humor. Of course maybe it wasn't funny but there are three other posts that at least got a 0.
Vote Quimby!
That would explain why almost all Unix and Unix like systems rely on them.
Tool.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
Guess what buttons you should never be clicked on in this webmin page:
[Stop SSHD] [Stop LPD]
[Stop FTPD] [Stop LDAP]
[Stop SMBD] [Stop NFSD]
[Stop HTTPD] [Stop ETH0]
Did you find the answer?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Well, I've found Webmin extremely useful in getting an idea of what a certain server can do, what type of options there are, etc. Manpages are nice, but don't provide a quick oversight in the same way. Also, when configuring stuff using webmin, the fact that it's a gui makes it quite easy to correct mistakes, try new things, etc.
Later on, you can always dive into a config file or use the commandline directly.
Sorry about the editing stuff, I'll point your review out to Mark, the executive editor. My role is acquisition and overall series direction - I don't get involved in production.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
We use Webmin primarily to administer our Bind servers... Like every other GUI, it has it's ups and downs. The ups would be that it (obviously!) makes it easier to administrate those horribly syntaxed named.conf files (Umm, did I put a } in front of the ; or after? Was there a space there? DAMN IT!).. The downs are, obviously, once you know the config files well enough, you have much more control over everything. Webmin, for example, by default puts it's zone files in /var/cache/bind. I was used to putting them in /etc/bind. It just makes it that much more frustrating when you have scattered zone files. I mean, it's not like it makes it any worse performance wise, but I like keeping neat and tidy systems. It seems that the old saying always rings true - "If you want something done right, do it yourself." That being said, I think Webmin is an awesome thing for people who don't necessarily have the time to sift through all the man pages and spend hours learning the context of a config file before they need to set up a simple web/dns/samba/whatever server for their company, or themselves. It's a great stepping-stone.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Not meant as a troll
I don't get it. Are you trying to say "I'm not being stupid to annoy people, I really am this stupid." If you have to tell people you're not a troll, maybe you should reevaluate what you want to say.
On topic: Webmin rules. It's not like the RedHat gui tools that leave out all sorts of options, webmin just puts everything in a gui. Check out the gui for samba configuration if you don't believe me.
Click Click Clickkity Click!
That's his mouse dumbass! It's a GUI so he doesn't need to know a damn thing about what he is doing.
I'm sure in some twisted and convoluted manner, you Windows admins can make that sound more appealing. I, OTOH, like to know what is going on behind the scenes. Please post back when Windows is truly running a data center.
I've used webmin for something like 8 months now. i never had a need for a book but i must say that i LOVE webmin. the program is just about the best thing ever :-P
-I use webmin so that I don't have to remember all the man pages and switches for some CLI commands.
-Webmin shows some switches and configuration possiblities that you may not run across during your normal CLI sessions.
-It can help tweak your installations without trying a command 5 or 10 times until I get all the switches right.
-Sometimes just being able to hit the high port # (10000) when all the lower ports are closed can be a life saver too.
This sig has moved on
I haven't had any problem with that - Webmin is pretty good about parsing config files, and writing them out in a clear format. Much better than linuxconf, or RedHat's tools, in my experience.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
How often does it crash? More or less often than sshd?
I do not have a signature
Try remote Admin of *NIX servers from locked down Windows2K boxes. I can't even use the floppy, so putty is out. But since it lets me surf, I can go to port 10000 and work on the system. Usermin is also great, allows my users to get their email via web. Been using it for almost 2 years, it is the first thing I add on to any server I build.
While I use a command line for just about everything I do, I have a business partner who can't seem to grasp the concept of the Vi editor, and I have forbidden him from using that atrocity of an editor, Pico. I've had simply no choice but to put webmin on our boxes we distribute only because it's the only way he can manage them. It also helps when you're installing one at a site that doesn't want a maintenance plan, but wants to be able to manage it all easily. Unfortunately, the computing world has changed so that people have become dependent on GUIs to step them through everything. I do give webmin quite a bit of credit, though, and if you use Usermin you can let users access the server through that to manage their accounts. It is a nice add-on for Linux, but I rarely use it unless I'm configuring something that has a script that's simply too difficult to edit by hand.
Does the book cover virtualmin, the virtual domain manager in webmin? That's a real time saver right there, and unlike Plesk, it leaves the resulting files alone so you can hand edit them later. Nice.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Rarely is it good for one to complain about grammar when one does not have a great grasp of it themselves. Any review is suspect in quality when it mentions (esp without examples) problems with "grammar and sentence contruction," and then proceeds to do be riddled with such itself.
So that I'm not a hypocrit, here is an incomplete list types of errors found:
"more than adequate, I'm well under way" should be "more than adequate; I'm well under way"
"Prentice Hall have a page for the book" should be "Prentice Hall has a page for the book"
"the lack of structure makes it unduly" should be "The lack of structure makes it unduly"
"If you want a guide to Webmin that includes notes on writing your own module then this will do until something better comes along, or they release a second edition with greater thought to structure and order" should be "If you want a guide to Webmin that includes notes on writing your own module, then this will do until something better comes along or they release a second edition with greater thought to structure and order." Seperating "if" and "then" should make sense to IT folk, even if they don't know what a conjunction is. The comma before the word "or" was improper, considering there was only two items being compared.
Oh, I could go on...but eh. I'm sure that my own complaint about the complainer's grammar has problems too...but ya don't see me writing a review on his review. Such things (reviews, that is) should be done with a little more editing...you know, that thing that supposedly (can we believe that?) was lacking in this book's publication.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
At my place it sounds like the desperate keyboards clicking in the experimental Linux department.
Don't get me wrong. I love these young guys. They walk in and give their weekly report. "No sir, our system is not working right but it will soon. We are having trouble communicating with the Windows network".
I always make it a point to question the whole idea of using Linux in an intranet that otherwise works perfectly: "Just because these few individuals refuse to use Windows is no reason to cripple the entire network - just lay down the law!".
Ah. I just love these meetings.
BOO! TERRO
Book of Webmin page at nostarch.com
Full disclusure: I am the acquisitions editor for No Starch Press
Hyperic Community Manager
webmin is great, if speed is not an issue
a) bring up page, log in, wait to load, do your stuff, logout
b) login, type command, log out
b is --a lot-- faster
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
When you are stuck at a place who's firewall rules don't allow you to shell to your box without using wierd connection methods like http tunnelling, webmin thru SSL is about the best alternative. I set up an email trigger with procmail to turn on the service so it isn't running all the time, and set limits on retries, after I found some logs of some dialup accounts trying to log into it. Anyway, I use it to read my spam proofed email, run apt-get for security updates, and write lyrics (saves me from having to email personal stuff to myself unencrypted over the network or lug a disk around).
CFengine is an excellent tool for configuration management and automation - and it is just celebrating its 10th birthday.
It can run under *nix as well as Windoze, and has a 'self healing' capability (so that if you removed the sshd from the system, for example, and were not able to login after a reboot - it would detect this [provided you set it up to look for this] and restore it)
I like to wind things up, then let them go about their merry way...
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Webmin is a dog. Slower than any other web-based administration tool I've ever seen. I have two more servers to remove it from before its completely out of my environment...finally.
======== In the future, everything will be artificial. ========
One thing you might be missing if, like me, you prefer to do everything in a shell: Webmin makes it easy for you to provide limited admin access to the other IT guys in your department who don't know Unix. If you're anything like me, you are probably getting used to being stuck doing boring adminstrative crap on the Unix boxes because noone else is willing to invest the time to learn how to do it. Webmin will set you free! Between the built in modules and the ability to add "custom commands" (really a simple interface that allows CLI challenged folks to pass some arguments to a command and see the results) you can enable any moron to do basic unix system administration tasks. No more phone calls to reset a password, change an MX record, or restart the web server! Create user accounts that limit the modules available, pass out some logins, and all the Windoze guys see is a web interface with buttons, no more scary unix shell.
-Lod
I was just coming over to Linux and the CLI was rather intimidating but then I found this thing called Webmin. Webmin got me up to speed faster than anything else would. Several years later now I use the CLI about 50% of the time and Webmin 50% of the time, it's strange that Webmin made it easier for Me to use CLI more.
Thats right I said Webmin made Me more comftorable using CLI to the point now where I use it more and more.
BTW, this whole CLI vs. GUI thing is stupid, as long as we're using Linux who cares?!?!?!
The best part about Webmin is the logging facility. If you have multiple people admin the same box, the logging will save your ass at least once a month.
I originally learned how to set up our Linux servers manually (emacs, baby - no VI for you!) for mail (Sendmail), web (Apache/Tomcat), database (mySQL), and everything else. We then hired a guy who knew more about networking that I do (especially the low-level details of all of the protocols and whatnot), and he insisted that we switch everything to Webmin.
I was hesistant at first. But once I got into practice of using it, being able to look at the logs and see who made changes to httpd.conf, or when was sendmail last restarted, or anything like that - well, trying to implement that level of logging manually would have been a huge pain in the ass.
Sorry, what were the reasons for which you hoped a republican would go to a Pro Hemp rally?
Didn't mean to but in on your well-thought-out post, but my giggle-itch got the best of me. Carry on, and good luck!
Emacs: for people who just never know when to
SQ mail is a far better interface than usermin for readin mail
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Port 10000, Webmin's default port, is reserved by IANA for NDMP usage, a network data management service utilized by some backup softwares. I know this is a Webmin developer issue and not a book author issue, but it deserves to be mentioned in any comprehensive book on Webmin. Webmin installed from its native scripts or from RPM on a box that has backup software will barf at startup. Backup softwares installed after Webmin will barf at their startup. Not a good thing, something Webmin should have accomodated for by now.
BTW, I use Webmin all the time. Great product. I have wished out loud and in print that Red Hat had spent their "NT Admin migration" energy in a cooperative work on Webmin instead of on their distro's own python tools. redhat-config-print is a fine tool, but CUPS comes with a web interface and Webmin has modules for both CUPS and LPR. Focus, people! Focus!
-j
From my experience of Webmin, it causes more problems than it solves in all but the simplest of administration tasks. Certainly it's capable of completely screwing up a server with any previous customised scripts.
I have installed in in cases where a server would be left to the charge of a novice, but I disable many of the worst modules. EG, Samba, Sendmail, MySQL, printer admin, named admin etc. The reason being it's far better to use the dedicated web interfaces for these, or in the case of Sendmail, leave it to an expert/someone competent.
I can see why a complete novice with a new box might find it useful, but for any remotely complex setup, it's woefully inadequate...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
for administering linux. As a quick solution for managing Sendmail, DNS, MySQL and Postgresql, it does the trick.
For more complex Postgresql and MySQL functions you still need to use other tools.
Sendmail and Bind are the big things I use Webmin for. Sendmail's configuration files are so convoluted that screwing it up is easy. Webmin eases configuring Sendmail.
Also, I like using Webmin to add multiple IP addresses (virtual) to a single server. It's alot quicker and cleaner than hand editing the network scripts and interfaces.
I pre-install Webmin on our Linux Virtual Private Servers. I think its a great tool.
It is a great help for setting up programs that require a fair bit of configuration. After you're done, you can look at the config changes that Webmin made. Next time around you are a bit more empowered to make the changes via the command-line.
Unlike some control panel software, it doesn't 'take over' your server. It doesn't overwrite RPMS with its own custom versions. It doesn't make config files 'Webmin only'
The help from within Webmin itself is not so great. Often you have to have a very good understanding of the service you're configuring before Webmin will make much sense. There is little contextual help in the program.
I've found The Book of Webmin to be quite useful. Plus I've created a few of my own HOWTOs for common tasks:
The problem with Pico is that it chops lines incorrectly, causing untold havoc on the config files. THIS is why I don't want him using pico. Vi will not chop the line up, it will simply wrap the text around but continue the line. I have told him about that, and he agrees that pico isn't the tool for the job. He just doesn't use vi enough to know what to do with it. I told him to download the cheat sheets and print them out, but apparently that's too much work.
Amazon.com is also attempting to patent the entire internet and will charge you 50 cents "per surf".
Get the book at a tech friendly place for $24.95
http://www.bookpool.com/.x/ia7nmm3ps8/ss/1?qs=webm in
Sunny Dubey
.. praise jah, praise ssh.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
> How often does it crash? More or less often than sshd?
Uh, more? I've never had sshd crash on me except when I was upgrading it or openssl (and it didn't really crash, it just wouldn't start because of temporary problems). I've had Webmin not only crash, but I've had it start using 100% of CPU at one time - I could barely ping the box, and reboots didn't help (the box was remote). Had to pay for an "incident" to have someone at my managed host manually disable Webmin from starting. After that, I've never ever used it again.
Must-not-watch TV!
> This is Linux we are talking about, Not Wintel
;)
LinuxTel, most of the time. What, you're running on Aplha? puh-leeeeeeze
> sshd does NOT WORK if you can not run a ssh client!
A big hand for Mr. Obvious <g>
> Kinkos does not do ssh, but it does have IE.
K, I hear you - but a) aren't there Java applets that implement an ssh client that you can run in a browser? (if not, there should be) and b) doesn't every notebook computer now come with modem and Ethernet ports, and sometimes even WiFi (or ~$40 for a WiFi PC Card)? You can then just proceed to your nearest StarBucks, if your hotel doesn't provide any connectivity options including not offering you a phone line to dial up even lowly AOL that has POPs nationwide, so you can run an ssh client on your choice of unix/win/etc. on your own "secure" notebook? Or are you implying that you live at Kinko's?
> The local Library does not speak ssh, but it can do Webmin. (Well the librarian does speak SHHHH!)
Must-not-watch TV!
I'm the author of this book, so I thought I'd add a comment explaining why the chapters are ordered the way they are. Basically, they follow the categories that modules are grouped under in Webmin itself, so all the system, networking and hardware related topics are covered first (such as users and groups and managing printers), followed by chapters on servers like apache, sendmail and squid.
:-) Rather, you can just read the first few chapters that explain how to set things up, and then skip to the chapters covering the specific servers that you are interested in.
Because it wasn't really written to be read all the way through from start to finish like a novel, the ordering shouldn't matter too much to readers anyway
Should I/we ask Jamie directly if he needs help editing for next release...or contact the publisher, etc. (I'm a tech writer by trade & use Webmin on Linux and OS X.) Jamie's work has helped me, perhaps I can return the favor.
Hmm let me think about this one. I run the only Linux desktop in the organisation and I have absolutely no trouble in accessing any of the Windows Network.
Oh and I run the intranet here. My machine has uptimes of weeks on end while the MS machines start to chuck fits after a couple of days.
The only reason we have not been able to switch more people to linux is legacy apps. Not word or excel because we have been rolling out Open Office with great success, but the more esoteric sales applications and ratings apps that management and sales need.
It is the author explaining her book!
I just installed it today....
now I just have to find what does what....and with my chronic ungodly procastination disorder (CUP'D for short), it'll take just about the same time as someone not using the web-based gui who's not lazy.
I'm married and can hardly afford books at near-full price. I have been saved by Bookpool prices more than once.
"why are the chapters about configuring Webmin at the end, for example"...
Simple. (And as an ex-trainer, laudable.)
You should learn how to use the B-flat vanilla version of anything before tailoring it -- follow the rules before you break the rules.
Additionally, it helps keep the printed examples consistent with the user's own screen during the essential first-use period.
All three NDMP users? You mean, like the majority of NetApp and EMC Celerra filer sites?
Youre right anything that has a vulnerability is not worth spit. All this time I have been using Openssh, guess that was a waste of time. Might as well thrown every piece of software on the planet out becuase there is a vulnerability..