Slashdot Mirror
Apple Updates iBook Line With G4 Processor
Kyro writes "Apple today upgraded their iBook notebook range across the board to G4 processors, Airport Extreme, bluetooth, USB 2.0, and slot-loading combo drives. All models ship with Mac OS X 10.3, and the 12" model gets a 800Mhz G4 while the 14" models get a choice of 933Mhz or 1Ghz. Prices largely remain the same as the old G3 versions." Mwongozi adds "Although not announced on the front page, the Apple Store was updated just a few minutes ago to show the new iBook."
dont forget if you are going to order one of these, to get your student discount!
it takes the $1099 12inch ibook down to $949. Hey thats 1/2 an ipod!:)
Just got myself a 12' PowerBook, oh well :-) Today I'd be hard pressed to choose -- one big plus on the PB is the *digital* video out, which lets you attach a Studio display. The new iBooks are discounted $100 at my University's edu store, versus $200 on the PBs. Specs and Euro prices from Macbidouille:
- 12" / 800MHz
PowerPC G4 a 800 MHz
256 Ko de cache N2 (a 800 MHz)
Ecran TFT 12" (1024 x 768)
256 Mo DDR266 / 30 Go
Lecteur combo DVD/CD-RW
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (32 Mo VRAM)
1.199 euros
- 14" / 933MHz
PowerPC G4 a 933 MHz
256 Ko de cache N2 (a 933 MHz)
Ecran TFT 14" (1024 x 768)
256 Mo DDR266 / 40 Go
Lecteur combo DVD/CD-RW
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (32 Mo VRAM)
1449 euros
- 14" / 1GHz
PowerPC G4 a 1 GHz
256 Ko de cache N2 (a 1 GHz)
Ecran TFT 14" (1024 x 768)
256 Mo DDR266 / 60 Go
Lecteur combo DVD/CD-RW
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (32 Mo VRAM)
1699 euros
If pices are the same, why would I pay the premium for a Powerbook? Obviously, with the 17", the screen of course, but for the 12" and 15" I'm not sure if a $500+ markup is worth it.
The next IBM 750 series of processors will have faster main cores and Altivec extensions so G3s will be back even if they don't get called G3s by apple. What is a G3 with altivec if not a G4 (ish, sort of).
I will interested to see how this will affect lower end powerbook sales.
I just checked out the specs, and with the exception of the 12" model, the G4 PowerBooks all have a 167Mhz bus, and 512K of backside cache.
The G4 iBooks have only a 133Mhz bus and 256K of backside cache.
The faster buses and larger caches in the PowerBooks are going to keep them running faster than the new iBooks in real-world tasks, even if the CPU speed is the same.
-Mark
I honestly do not find the iBooks--at least the 12.1" versions--to be that large. They are a bit thicker than competition, but they also can take a tremendous beating. I have dropped my current iBook three times, and my previous one four or five, and neither was hurt at all. (What finally did my old iBook in was actually when idiot moving people dropped a 100 pound crate on it, which cracked the LCD. I currently use it as my home server.) By comparison, I have heard stories from my friends of when they drop their IBM and Sony laptops and they shatter badly. Yes, this is anecdotal, but If we're talking only about a pound difference weight-wise for the extra stability then it's certainly worth it to me.
These aren't the same G4 chips you're used to in Powerbooks, they're IBM manufactured "PPC 750GX". Yes, that's a G3 with AltiVec.
Previous PPC750s (the fx and so on) were called G3s. Add an AltiVec unit to it and Apple call it a G4
Remember Apple's marketing is perfectly justified in calling a chip anything it likes, and it looks to be using AltiVec as the demarcation between G3 and G4, rather than the rest of the core. It's still a PPC750 in these new iBooks however.
Can someone explain why a 14.1 in display would have the same resolution (1024x768) as the 12.1 in display? I would expect to see a higher resolution as the screen gets bigger. Can you see the difference when comparing the two side by side (clarity of the icons, etc)?
The reason this is slashdot front-page material is that they moved from g3 to g4. Historically this is a biggish thing.
Basically the difference between g3 and g4 is so great that this is a big deal. Up until now, the question has been, do you go with the iBooks and save a bunch of money, but suffer; or spend a "premium" and get the leaps-ahead g4. This has been one of the biggest problems with recommending a mac laptop to someone-- they couldn't get an acceptable processor at a cheap price.
Now even Apple's bargain-basement laptops have the vastly superior g4.
This is also significant because if I am not TOTALLY confused, this means that the g3 is no longer being used in any products whatsoever anywhere. It is dead. Salute. The retiring of an entire chip line is perhaps somewhat significant on a geek site.
Needless to say, they had the G4 iBooks ready to go, but held off announcing them until my 15" AlBook had arrived.
How much longer can we see OS X support for the last generation of iBooks with G3 processors? The current version of OS X 10.3 (Panther) does not support the beige G3 model.
That's like comparing a Windows 3.1 system to a current Mac with the Unix-based OS. You'd be asking why anyone would choose Windows.
The mac you are using doesn't have pre-emptive threading support. The Macs now have a totally different OS core, based on BSD.
This is a necessary move for Apple to reclaim some market share.
I'm only going to say this once.
Nobody gives a damn about Apple's share of the entire computer market. Does anybody care about Mercedes's share of the entire automotive industry? Of course not.
Apple, like any company, has target market segments. First-time home computer buyers in upper-middle-income brackets; first-time laptop buyers in same; students; teachers; creative professionals; science and technical users. Among these market segments, Apple's share is just fine, thanks.
Apple doesn't sell well to people who already own computers and who make under $75,000 per year per household. So freakin' what? That's not their target market. Just like Mercedes doesn't sell well to single people under the age of 25.
Now that you've been educated, kindly slink back under your bridge, you troll.
i was minutes away from buying a g3 ibook for my wife yesterday, but decided to wait. by this morning i'd talked myself into it and went to the apple site. holy jebus, for an extra $100, she's [i'm] getting a g4 with twice the memory and the combo drive built in!
!(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
My bet is they're about to put G5's in the PB line. But that would be pretty shocking. To go from desktop to laptop that quickly??? That's not like Apple, unless I'm forgetting something.
;)
I think you're forgetting that it's the year of the laptop..
And I think you'll see speed revs before (or in lockstep with) price drops, given that they said 3GHz in 2004 is realistic..
And listen, the stock G5 may dissipate lots of power at 2ghz, but don't be surprised if Apple comes up with an interesting cooling scheme, runs the chip at lower speeds, and basically sells it as a desktop replacement ala desktop P4 laptops..
It is just curious to see that Apple is not using the latest MPC7447 G4s (those found inside the newest Powerbooks) but the oldest MPC7445 , which include only 256K cache and generate more heat as they are produced with an 0.18 u technology (as opposed to the 0.13 u of the 47s)
The only reason I could see is, apart from differentating the models in terms of cache size, the future transition to G5 in the Powerbooks and G4-7447s in the iBooks.
I have just bought a new top-of-range Al Powerbook and although I am extremely happy with it I am concerned that Apple has not got enough of a differentiation between the iBook and Powerbook line.
Bluetooth and a larger L2 cache is hardly a justification and the superdrive is personally neither here nor there. I think the sooner they get the liquid cooled G5 fitted into a powerbook the better. Hey I might even be *forced* to part with even more money for the sheer coolness of it.
However I think that this market segmentation is crucial for Apple to keep an aspirational difference between consumer and pro lines. And frankly these releases are dangerously close to blurring them...
I would suggest that plastic vs metal case is *not* gonna be enough if they are both based on the same processor architecture...
---- The Open Source Record Label : : LOCARECORDS.COM
Its difficult to justify buying the 12" PowerBook with the new 12" iBook. I know the PowerBook is slightly faster, has slightly better graphics card, DVI out and a slightly nicer casing but the price difference is so large that you'd really have to need one of these specialised features to justify the purchase of a PowerBook 12".
The eMac has dropped to $799 now and that is for the 1 GHz G4 with a combo drive.
Browsing Apple's pages, I noticed that USB 2.0 support was added to these iBooks. USB 2.0 was first supported by Apple in the new G5 towers (although unlike the G5s, the iBooks don't support FireWire 800, only FW 400).
It also ships with OS X 10.3 Panther, although this should surprise no one as Panther is set to ship within the week anyway.
If you want to buy one of these, it might be a good idea to go to the unleashing of Panther this Friday at an Apple Store! When Jaguar came out, it was what, 10% off everything in the store?
I was going to get an Audi TT then I found out I could get a
Kia Rio for less than 10 grand! They both go 75mph which is as
fast as you can go anywhere anyway. Audi is charging over
3 times as much!
Audi, as a quality automobile company, is dying.
I actually considered going w/ an iBook (got to use a couple at TUG2003 in Hawai'i and thought the 12" model was a good fit---found the 14" too big, guess I'm still remembering my Sharp PC-6220, the first truly usable laptop (and I had a GRiDCase III plus, NEC Ultralite and Toshiba 1200xe before that)).
But, I'd have to haul around a separate graphics tablet (at least these days w/ USB you don't need a wall-wart power supply like my ThinkPad and Wacom ArtZ did), and the handwriting recognition is ``merely'' the print recognizer from Newton OS 2.x and doesn't learn, and there's no built-in support for gestures beyond basic editing for other aspects of pen UI.
Surely Apple could engineer a nice double-hinge setup which was elegant, durable, reliable and innovative (look at recent stories on interesting laptop designs from IBM as examples of what they should surpass).
So, I got a Fujitsu Stylistic instead, at least I didn't have to compromise and get a convertible, but got a true slate---for Mac OS X, I'd probably compromise though, especially if they added further pen-specific aspects to the UI.
I really miss PenPoint though (ran it on an NCR-3125), and have always kind of wished that Go had teamed up with HP, and that NeXT had gone w/ PenPoint for their portables (say w/ some kind of synch arrangement like to the Palm Pilot).
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
If you bought it within the last 30 days, you'll get some money back if you ask. I bought a G4 desktop 5 days before the G5 was released, and I got $700 back from Apple. That's why I usually buy hardware from the Apple Store directly...you get perks like that. Either way, it's worth a call...
My
yeah, 800mhz G4, student-proof construction and 6 hr battery life for $1000 is such a turn-off.
... and finally Unix-based ...
however, if they raise the price to $2000and cut the battery life in half, perhaps you will be more impressed.
p.s.
what rock have you been living under? ibooks have run osx since day one... YEARS ago.
My first reaction was "great, the iBook is the same as the PowerBook I bought a few months ago". After a few minutes digging, though, there are some real differences, though they're subtle. So Apple managed to give the core benefits of the PB to the iBook at a somewhat lower price, which is a good thing, even if it does reduce the product differentiation a bit.
:-)
The differences I can see are:
- Bluetooth is extra (an internal module, like AirPort).
- No SuperDrive option. This is a big deal to me -- I do backups on DVD-R's (you don't want to back 60 GB onto CD-R's!).
- No DVI out (also none on my PB, but there is on new ones)
- White plastic instead of metal case.
- 0.3 pounds heavier, perhaps 1/2 inch thicker.
- 10 GB smaller hard drives
- Plastic probably more impact resistant than metal (but also leads to case being thicker).
- $500 more for PowerBook.
So overall, a tradeoff. I'm still as happy as ever with my 12" PB, but now more people can buy most of what I've got, and while that makes it a little less exclusive, that's really a good thing...
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
I actually had my wife considering an iBook for her next laptop, because she wanted iTunes. But now that she's got iTunes on her existing (Windows) laptop, there will be no iminent iBook purchase.
Thanks Mr. Jobs.
MORTAR COMBAT!
The two questions I always ask in response to this question are "how much do you want to spend?" and "what do you want to use it for?" All of the current Macs will run OS X and basic Internet and Office applications with no performance problems (just add RAM). If portability is of any interest to you, the Apple laptops are great with regards to relative performance and durability. On the other hand, if future expansion/upgrades are important to you (and they may be, considering you're interested in playing games), the desktop is the way to go. Deciding between a G4 desktop and the G5 will likely be a cost consideration. If you can afford the G5, its performance justifies the cost. The G4 desktops can be had for considerably less money, but still offer good performance (especially in dual-processor configurations). Obviously if top of the line performance is critical, you must choose the G5, but you can easily save enough for an iPod and additional RAM if you go for the G4.
Well, as a student, I find having a laptop makes a huge difference in the amount of work I get done. My situation is a bit specialized -- I'm a grad student, and I work as a DBA 30 hrs/wk and take 6 credit hours (this is considered full-time in grad school, although I'd say it's more like 3/4 time) at locations that are fairly far apart. One machine -- my iBook -- serves as my sole computer for work, home, and school. I really like having everything accessible to me, all the time.
The iBook (mine is a 700 MHz G3, a little dated now) is a wonderful machine, and it handles every demand work and school can throw at it. Having the Unix command line accessible at a click is indispensable for both locations. The GUI part of OS X is absurdly easy to use and very powerful; if you're used to XP or any of the common Linux desktops, it will take you about a day to get comfortable with it and a month or two to get over the "I didn't know it could do that! OMFG, that's so cool!" reaction. I'd say that if you buy one of the G4 iBooks, you'll feel that your money was well spent.
Any caveats? Well, yeah. You probably want to spend a little extra on the 3-year AppleCare plan. With luck you'll never need it, but let's face it, life is rough on laptops. And unless you shoot your laptop, give it to your dog as a chewtoy, or drop it in salt water, AppleCare will take care of anything that's likely to go wrong. And, of course, as always, spend every penny you can on boosting the RAM; the default is never enough. But I think you can do all of the above and still stay within your $1,300 limit -- and you'll have a machine that no similarly-priced PC laptop can touch.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
I was considering buying one of these yesterday, but decided to wait a week to see if I can find something better. Glad I did now :)
One thing I would like to ask those who have an iBook already: What's the battery life like? It sayed 6 hours in the UK Apple store for the pre-G4 12" version, which would be amazing if it was true. They've changed it to the rather vague "extra-long battery life" for the G4 version.
Try here for the firmware hack.
You tell me how "whilst" differs from "while," and I'll stop calling you a pretentious jackass.
then the G3. So the Powerbook should still be significantly faster.
All iBook (dual usb) have a fan. Take it apart and look. Normally can't hear it though.
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
Perhaps you speak of the newer IBM Thinkpads that were basically designed and built in Taiwan by Acer. However, the Thinkpads that were IBM-designed and built in IBM-owned facilities *are* that tough.
I just plunked down three bills to get myself an off-lease 600E. The thing is *built*. The finish is completely coated in a rubberized coating so that even french-fry fingers won't slip. It seems to be made with a metal frame and plastic shell over the metal. Even though the thing only weighs 5 pounds, it feels very, very solid. (Yeah, I know there are much lighter lappies out there but this is the lightest one I have ever owned.)
Oh yeah...this is the only IBM Thinkpad that Big Blue took the trouble to get Linux certified. Here's a link to an old /. article about it.. The big gripe in the article was about how everything but the modem worked. Guess what: IBM did write and release Linux drivers for the MWave modem in this model! It took them a while, but they are out there now.
You can get 600Es cheap at Computer Geeks and at other places that sell off-lease Thinkpads...I suspect the reason why they are all over the place now is because they were popular around the apex of the Dot-bomb boom, and now there's a glut because so many of the folks who were carrying those around are now baristas at Starbucks. ^_^
Oh yeah, to pull this back on topic: the only thing built tougher than a Thinkpad is a PowerBook. Ph33r the mighty Wallstreet/Lombard/Pismo...those are tough mofos. Same with the iToiletSeat iMacs...those were designed with K-12 students in mind, just like the legendary eMate NewtonOS device. Even the old 100-series PowerBooks are tough as nails. And everyone I know with an Ice iBook has stories of how durable their iBook is.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
If you're an apple user, chances are good the girls *AND* the guys want to be with you.
O:-)
hehehe
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
I was about to scream when I saw the 12" G4 iBook for $1100. I paid $1200 for a refurbed 12" 867Mhz PB (Direct from Apple, got a 20GB iPod for $270, too!). Then I realized that if I added the bluetooth module (yes, I use it) and bumped the HD to 40GB (what I have in the PB), it would only be about $25 cheaper. I'm not upset now. I'd still buy the refurbed PB for the slight speed bump and cool design.
This time I actually let out an entirely involuntary orgasmic moan at my desk.
... can't.... .. resist.
Sorry I just
Did you tell the secretary she can get out from under your desk and go back to hers?
;)
this is a great point. for one, apple could never substantially increase their share without dramatically changing their structure. i was an econ major, not business, but i know a a little about vert/horiz integration and economic scalability. apple is a "niche" player. to be able to compete with the dell $799 un-inspiron or the best buy special o' the week, they would have to cut back on what makes them a "mac". then they are not different, and they cannot compete, because they can't scale that high. so, they are better off being where they are. if they change, they don't compete, they die. great point.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
"It comes in YARDS?"
"..."
"I'm getting one."
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Uh, i think you're right but your perception of Apple's segment is all wrong. First time users are NOT apple's market anymore. First time users have been buying "whatever's cheapest" for the past few years.
Apple's market is now experienced computer users who find that the Windows world has failed them and the Linux world still takes too much effort. It is people who want to USE computers and are tired of FIXING them. This includes many students and artists and lawyers and writers and scientists whose first priority is not securing and optimizing their computer's environment.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
This is too little, too late for Apple. They're dying, and everyone sees it except the Mac users themselves.
This is a funny statement. I'm not entirely sure why. It's something like a Roman Centurion around 200 AD saying "Christianity is dying. I mean, why shell out for one god when you can have a whole pantheon, and with significantly fewer commandments to follow!"
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Plus, very important for Video Nerds:
iBook = up to 640 MB
Powerbook = up to 1.25GB
Big difference!
Damn those pesky terrorists
I already had a PC based DAW (digital audio worksation). But decided upon swithing back to the Mac with the ibook. One of the main reasons I chose the iBook over a Powerbook was because of how quiet they are. When you're recording classical guitar with a sensitive condenser microphone-it's nice not pick up the sound of a computer. Most of the time my iBook 700 is as quiet as can be. My Athlon box, on the other hand, generates huge amounts of heat and fan noise. Even the turbulence of the air coming out of the back of the pc generates a huge amount of noise.
having just recieved my 900 MHz G3 iBook in the mail 4 days ago, I was pretty pissed to see that Apple unveiled a new line of iBooks.
However, I called Apple, and it turned out I qualified for some kind of price protection. I am not allowed to return my iBook and get a new one (since my iBook was "custom built" by having extra RAM and an Airport card added), but they are going to credit my Visa $190.
Hope this helps anyone else who just bought an iBook. CALL APPLE!!! they may have some money for you....
I am in one of the neighbourhoods where Apple has one of their stores. Speaking solely from the experience of spending way too much time hanging out at said store and drooling over the keypads, you're dead wrong about it being a first-time buyer's solution. The most common thing overheard when people are using the GUI is "that's so much better than Windows." Not "that's so easily done, this is my only frame of reference."
And you're dead right about the digital hub being part of the allure. They have each type of device you can use for sale on a freaking pedestal. I have definitely seen a lot of Camedias and Palms and iPods sold as accessories alongside PCs. But few of the purchasers are computer virgins.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
No. All Powerbooks were upgraded last month. September 16, IIRC. It'll be a while for another upgrade.
I'm sure the new G5 PBs will come out only a few days after I get my new G4 PB.
--
dman123 forever!
Filtering out the -1s and 0s since 1999.
If you look at the "Technical Specifications" page for the new iBooks, you'll notice there is NO mention of the "Velocity Engine". Same for the new "G4" eMac.
Any other Technical Specifications page for any other "G4" Apple offers, they say "with Velocity Engine".
I am afraid the iBook and eMac may not *have* a "Velocity Engine", or Apple would advertise it, wouldn't they ? These might be IBM chips, but they are not IBM chips with "Altivec". They may be "G4" in name only, i.e. we're marketing guys, we're willing to call it "G4" just because it's over 800 Mhz... this totally sucks if it's the case. I hope I'm wrong and Apple updates the Tech Specs to include mention of Velocity Engine, but I am afraid that Apple might have just stooped to the level of other hardware companies here.
The "old" (non-DVI) 12" AluBooks, like mine, were also able to have only up to 640 MB of RAM.
So you're right only, if you compare to new 12"DVI PBook
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
... like I nearly did, how ticked off are you?
Prevent Windows piracy. Use Linux instead.
I was viewing the specs and I noticed that the battery was listed as a 50w/h on the 12.1" iBook, as opposed to a 41w/h on the 12" PowerBook. In the past, I know PowerBooks had bigger batteries than iBooks. Does anyone with a G3 iBook know how much theirs is?
My Systems
The 750GX DOES NOT include a SIMD/AltiVec unit, and these machines DO NOT have IBM 750GX CPUs in them.
the 750GX, due soon at a fabrication plant near you, is essentially a 750FX with additional L2 cache (1MB vs. 512K), and some minor reworking to accomodate higher clocking and better caching. Expect it to run in the 900MHz-1.2GHz range over it's lifetime.
The 750VX, which nobody has even claimed to have seen yet, is the rumored IBM 750+AltiVec CPU. It would be IBM's answer to Motorola's G4 chip. Specs are up in the air.
I think if you were to tear one of these new notebooks open you'd see a Motorola 7XXX branded CPU, which tend to favor AltiVec in exchange for on-die cache. What leads me to this conclusion? The IBM whitepapers for the 750GX have been out since June, and their specs just don't match with this laptop's, while Motorola's offerings clearly do.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
You're kidding right? Talk to a lawer? He bought the iBook just after it came out, and that would make it sometime back in April. Apple has a standard upgrade pattern of roughly 6 months between updates. At the time, he obviously thought it was worth it, and common sense dictates that computers will get faster.
The only case he would have is if Apple guaranteed him that this would be the fastest iBook ever. And since that's unreasonable, there is no case.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
The 15" Powerbook also features factory defects, such as a poorly designed casing behind the LCD panel, causing pressure on it to form white splotches in the middle of the screen.
Right now, I think anyone would be a fool to buy one. People who just received theirs are having these screen problems in as little as the first few days to 1 week of use. Apple was doing warranty replacements, but so far, the replacements had the same issues as the originals.
(To Apple's credit, though, many of the Apple support people are starting to admit they're aware of the problem - and some new orders for 15" Powerbooks have stopped shipping. It looks like some sort of fix is in the works.)
You need to get your own TV show. Call it "The Frugal Yuppie". =)
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.