Slashdot Mirror
Apple Updates iBook Line With G4 Processor
Kyro writes "Apple today upgraded their iBook notebook range across the board to G4 processors, Airport Extreme, bluetooth, USB 2.0, and slot-loading combo drives. All models ship with Mac OS X 10.3, and the 12" model gets a 800Mhz G4 while the 14" models get a choice of 933Mhz or 1Ghz. Prices largely remain the same as the old G3 versions." Mwongozi adds "Although not announced on the front page, the Apple Store was updated just a few minutes ago to show the new iBook."
dont forget if you are going to order one of these, to get your student discount!
it takes the $1099 12inch ibook down to $949. Hey thats 1/2 an ipod!:)
Just got myself a 12' PowerBook, oh well :-) Today I'd be hard pressed to choose -- one big plus on the PB is the *digital* video out, which lets you attach a Studio display. The new iBooks are discounted $100 at my University's edu store, versus $200 on the PBs. Specs and Euro prices from Macbidouille:
- 12" / 800MHz
PowerPC G4 a 800 MHz
256 Ko de cache N2 (a 800 MHz)
Ecran TFT 12" (1024 x 768)
256 Mo DDR266 / 30 Go
Lecteur combo DVD/CD-RW
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (32 Mo VRAM)
1.199 euros
- 14" / 933MHz
PowerPC G4 a 933 MHz
256 Ko de cache N2 (a 933 MHz)
Ecran TFT 14" (1024 x 768)
256 Mo DDR266 / 40 Go
Lecteur combo DVD/CD-RW
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (32 Mo VRAM)
1449 euros
- 14" / 1GHz
PowerPC G4 a 1 GHz
256 Ko de cache N2 (a 1 GHz)
Ecran TFT 14" (1024 x 768)
256 Mo DDR266 / 60 Go
Lecteur combo DVD/CD-RW
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (32 Mo VRAM)
1699 euros
If pices are the same, why would I pay the premium for a Powerbook? Obviously, with the 17", the screen of course, but for the 12" and 15" I'm not sure if a $500+ markup is worth it.
The next IBM 750 series of processors will have faster main cores and Altivec extensions so G3s will be back even if they don't get called G3s by apple. What is a G3 with altivec if not a G4 (ish, sort of).
I will interested to see how this will affect lower end powerbook sales.
the one standard 12inch model is 800MHZ and the two 14inch models are 933MHz and 1GHz....... i wonder if it's a heat issue of the G4, or if they are trying to make the 12inch an entry model? Personally if i bought one i would go for 12inch just because of the portability factor. The slower processor makes me wonder though. I guess we will have to wait to see what actual G4 chip they have? That being said they seem like a decent upgrade and stay in the same price brackets. This seems to blur the line between 12inch ibook and powerbook even more.......
I guess the kills any speculation of Apple using a G3 with Alti-Vec.
Prediction: OS 10.5 will not support G3s(will require Alti-Vec). Also, a Powerbook G5 is less than one year away(maybe even MacWorld SF).
Too bad. I really liked the all-white design, it made all the difference from the gray mass.
Oh well, off to buy one I guess.
Having bought a 900 Mhz G3 iBook just after they came out, I am moved to tears to see the G4 iBooks now. Of course, my g/f has been wanting one, so maybe I'll just buy myself a G4 and give her the G3.
As for the practical, nice to see USB 2.0 and Airport Extreme on the iBook. Still maxes out at only 640 MB of RAM though. Also only 256K L2 cache seems like it will hurt performance. The Powerbooks have 512K. I guess they had to come up with some ways to justify the higher cost of the 12" PB. That and if you want a Superdrive or built in bluetooth, you need to buy a PB.
Guess I'll wait to see some benchmarks on this, but my guess is we'll become a 2 iBook household before too long. (Should probably save up for 2 iPods too.)
I'm not an actor, but I play one on tv.
Altivec and lap warming?
I like the aluminum case better, but that's a subjective decision...
I'm in Athens, Greece and exploring the Apple website has persuaded me that both discounts are unavailable for me. Apple should offer both globally...
I just checked out the specs, and with the exception of the 12" model, the G4 PowerBooks all have a 167Mhz bus, and 512K of backside cache.
The G4 iBooks have only a 133Mhz bus and 256K of backside cache.
The faster buses and larger caches in the PowerBooks are going to keep them running faster than the new iBooks in real-world tasks, even if the CPU speed is the same.
-Mark
I meant affordable systems...
how long until
..that the new iBook ships with 10.3, but I keep checking the Apple store to see when they're going to start shipping the G5s with 10.3. Right now, they're still shipping with 10.2, but they'll send you a copy of 10.3 when it gets released on Friday. Thanks and all, but I'd rather not have to bother getting my new G5, and then waiting a couple days, and then upgrading my OS. Apple, my credit card is burning, scarring my hand waiting to buy a G5!!! Start shipping them with 10.3 and I'll hemorrhage cash for you Mr. Jobs I swear!!!!!
Okay, breathe...
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
I honestly do not find the iBooks--at least the 12.1" versions--to be that large. They are a bit thicker than competition, but they also can take a tremendous beating. I have dropped my current iBook three times, and my previous one four or five, and neither was hurt at all. (What finally did my old iBook in was actually when idiot moving people dropped a 100 pound crate on it, which cracked the LCD. I currently use it as my home server.) By comparison, I have heard stories from my friends of when they drop their IBM and Sony laptops and they shatter badly. Yes, this is anecdotal, but If we're talking only about a pound difference weight-wise for the extra stability then it's certainly worth it to me.
These aren't the same G4 chips you're used to in Powerbooks, they're IBM manufactured "PPC 750GX". Yes, that's a G3 with AltiVec.
Previous PPC750s (the fx and so on) were called G3s. Add an AltiVec unit to it and Apple call it a G4
Remember Apple's marketing is perfectly justified in calling a chip anything it likes, and it looks to be using AltiVec as the demarcation between G3 and G4, rather than the rest of the core. It's still a PPC750 in these new iBooks however.
Can someone explain why a 14.1 in display would have the same resolution (1024x768) as the 12.1 in display? I would expect to see a higher resolution as the screen gets bigger. Can you see the difference when comparing the two side by side (clarity of the icons, etc)?
The reason this is slashdot front-page material is that they moved from g3 to g4. Historically this is a biggish thing.
Basically the difference between g3 and g4 is so great that this is a big deal. Up until now, the question has been, do you go with the iBooks and save a bunch of money, but suffer; or spend a "premium" and get the leaps-ahead g4. This has been one of the biggest problems with recommending a mac laptop to someone-- they couldn't get an acceptable processor at a cheap price.
Now even Apple's bargain-basement laptops have the vastly superior g4.
This is also significant because if I am not TOTALLY confused, this means that the g3 is no longer being used in any products whatsoever anywhere. It is dead. Salute. The retiring of an entire chip line is perhaps somewhat significant on a geek site.
Needless to say, they had the G4 iBooks ready to go, but held off announcing them until my 15" AlBook had arrived.
So why the chip change? What's next? My bet is they're about to put G5's in the PB line. But that would be pretty shocking. To go from desktop to laptop that quickly??? That's not like Apple, unless I'm forgetting something. I figured they would wait until early next year around MacWorld to announce something like this. But maybe they're trying to get the Christmas sales..? Must be it.
:)
I just hope they drop the price of the G5 desktops, or increase the speed of the high-end model. That's what I want.
Still chuggin' on my 400Mhz G4 from 3.5 years ago...
-Kylector
Unlikely with the current G5s because they produce too much heat. If the chip fab moves to a smaller process then maybe.
How much longer can we see OS X support for the last generation of iBooks with G3 processors? The current version of OS X 10.3 (Panther) does not support the beige G3 model.
That's like comparing a Windows 3.1 system to a current Mac with the Unix-based OS. You'd be asking why anyone would choose Windows.
The mac you are using doesn't have pre-emptive threading support. The Macs now have a totally different OS core, based on BSD.
This is a necessary move for Apple to reclaim some market share.
I'm only going to say this once.
Nobody gives a damn about Apple's share of the entire computer market. Does anybody care about Mercedes's share of the entire automotive industry? Of course not.
Apple, like any company, has target market segments. First-time home computer buyers in upper-middle-income brackets; first-time laptop buyers in same; students; teachers; creative professionals; science and technical users. Among these market segments, Apple's share is just fine, thanks.
Apple doesn't sell well to people who already own computers and who make under $75,000 per year per household. So freakin' what? That's not their target market. Just like Mercedes doesn't sell well to single people under the age of 25.
Now that you've been educated, kindly slink back under your bridge, you troll.
i was minutes away from buying a g3 ibook for my wife yesterday, but decided to wait. by this morning i'd talked myself into it and went to the apple site. holy jebus, for an extra $100, she's [i'm] getting a g4 with twice the memory and the combo drive built in!
!(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
The iBook is still the best deal in laptops anywhere, and now it might be better. The G4 is a lot hotter than the G3 what I know, and this might cause the fan to run incessantly. Whether the iBook is as powerful as the PowerBook is not the issue, as far as I am concerned; the iBook is a convenient box to lug around and pound for pound the best deal going.
It is just curious to see that Apple is not using the latest MPC7447 G4s (those found inside the newest Powerbooks) but the oldest MPC7445 , which include only 256K cache and generate more heat as they are produced with an 0.18 u technology (as opposed to the 0.13 u of the 47s)
The only reason I could see is, apart from differentating the models in terms of cache size, the future transition to G5 in the Powerbooks and G4-7447s in the iBooks.
"I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Mac over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems"
Shity File System? - use a Windows machine all day for three months straight using at least 5 different memory and processor intensive programs a day and see how long it takes you to start getting fatal errors (that is of course unless you want to use your Pentium Pro 200 to defrag - cause that'll be REAL fast)
Blue Screen of Death? - I'd rather have it run slow for a bit than lose everything. Save often? I shouldnt have to!!
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.
I have just bought a new top-of-range Al Powerbook and although I am extremely happy with it I am concerned that Apple has not got enough of a differentiation between the iBook and Powerbook line.
Bluetooth and a larger L2 cache is hardly a justification and the superdrive is personally neither here nor there. I think the sooner they get the liquid cooled G5 fitted into a powerbook the better. Hey I might even be *forced* to part with even more money for the sheer coolness of it.
However I think that this market segmentation is crucial for Apple to keep an aspirational difference between consumer and pro lines. And frankly these releases are dangerously close to blurring them...
I would suggest that plastic vs metal case is *not* gonna be enough if they are both based on the same processor architecture...
---- The Open Source Record Label : : LOCARECORDS.COM
Bloody hell, my Powerbook order was approved today. Now, I'm not saying 'causality' here, but it seems everytime I order something from the store, they update something else. :-P
YLFIOne god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
Its difficult to justify buying the 12" PowerBook with the new 12" iBook. I know the PowerBook is slightly faster, has slightly better graphics card, DVI out and a slightly nicer casing but the price difference is so large that you'd really have to need one of these specialised features to justify the purchase of a PowerBook 12".
I don't know if this is still true, but the older ibooks (mine included) when hooked to an external monitor can't display higher resolution than the lcd.
By comparison, my TiBook fell off of my desk (normal desk height, 2.5'-3' maybe), and busted out the IrDA , cracked the plastic interior, and bent a little of the frame around the IrDA port. The IrDA port I could care less about, but the case looks a little nasty, and not long after, it myseriously stopped working (it freezes even running the kernel on the OS install disc when reinstalling, and the hardware diagnostic tool reports that all hardware is nominal). I'm taking it to get fixed, even without AppleCare, which definitely shows love, but I'm pretty disappointed with its durability.
--- What
The eMac has dropped to $799 now and that is for the 1 GHz G4 with a combo drive.
My rule for buying computers.
research, buy, don't look back (don't look for a least a year)
Feeble troll.
Apple are moving plenty of product and making a small profit.
You should try cut & pasting a better troll from one of the professional Mac-baiters.
That was classic intercourse!
Browsing Apple's pages, I noticed that USB 2.0 support was added to these iBooks. USB 2.0 was first supported by Apple in the new G5 towers (although unlike the G5s, the iBooks don't support FireWire 800, only FW 400).
It also ships with OS X 10.3 Panther, although this should surprise no one as Panther is set to ship within the week anyway.
If you want to buy one of these, it might be a good idea to go to the unleashing of Panther this Friday at an Apple Store! When Jaguar came out, it was what, 10% off everything in the store?
I was coming to a stop and taking my backpack off as when I noticed my books started flying forwards as I swung my backpack around, then I saw the iBook do the same. I think having a suspension fork on my bike may have helped but but when I plowed over it I was sure I just killed it. The culprit was the worn zipper on my 10 year old backpack, it wast thrown away that night.
A friend of mine has a brand new 15" PB that looks very nice and I've considered purchasing one. However, the 17" PB has more screen realestate and a faster processor at the cost of $400 more. Is it worth the price to upgrade to the 17" PB as opposed to the 15" PB? The 14" iBook looks nice from the pictures but would a power user grow out of it rather quickly? I haven't used an Apple computer since my IIc I had when I was a child but I'm anxious to try OSX. What has been your experience with your Apple laptop? Would you make the purchase again or go with an IBM ThinkPad or other Intel-based laptop?
Would it REALLY be news if IBM released all of their laptops with P3s?
Upgrading old hardware with hardware that ahem... isn't so old doesn't exactly make this geek drool.
I was going to get an Audi TT then I found out I could get a
Kia Rio for less than 10 grand! They both go 75mph which is as
fast as you can go anywhere anyway. Audi is charging over
3 times as much!
Audi, as a quality automobile company, is dying.
You do realize the irony in your post is that you too posted virtually the same sort of annecdotal evidence, except without the specific annecdote, right? Just because you proclaim something doesn't make it true... in fact, a good ol' annecdote would have given your assertion a bit more weight...otherwise you could have sited materials used or specific, stated design philosophy from IBM. But alas, you chose the ironic route and didn't do anything of the sort.
I actually considered going w/ an iBook (got to use a couple at TUG2003 in Hawai'i and thought the 12" model was a good fit---found the 14" too big, guess I'm still remembering my Sharp PC-6220, the first truly usable laptop (and I had a GRiDCase III plus, NEC Ultralite and Toshiba 1200xe before that)).
But, I'd have to haul around a separate graphics tablet (at least these days w/ USB you don't need a wall-wart power supply like my ThinkPad and Wacom ArtZ did), and the handwriting recognition is ``merely'' the print recognizer from Newton OS 2.x and doesn't learn, and there's no built-in support for gestures beyond basic editing for other aspects of pen UI.
Surely Apple could engineer a nice double-hinge setup which was elegant, durable, reliable and innovative (look at recent stories on interesting laptop designs from IBM as examples of what they should surpass).
So, I got a Fujitsu Stylistic instead, at least I didn't have to compromise and get a convertible, but got a true slate---for Mac OS X, I'd probably compromise though, especially if they added further pen-specific aspects to the UI.
I really miss PenPoint though (ran it on an NCR-3125), and have always kind of wished that Go had teamed up with HP, and that NeXT had gone w/ PenPoint for their portables (say w/ some kind of synch arrangement like to the Palm Pilot).
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
If you bought it within the last 30 days, you'll get some money back if you ask. I bought a G4 desktop 5 days before the G5 was released, and I got $700 back from Apple. That's why I usually buy hardware from the Apple Store directly...you get perks like that. Either way, it's worth a call...
My
I'm holding out for a speed jump or price drop in the dual-G5 model. Buying a top-end Apple will last you about 4 years if you want it to (mine has). If you're just looking for middle of the road, then you might consider the above response or a 1.25 Ghz dual-G4 tower. Depends what a laptop is worth to you, really.
-Kylector
Well... I had given up on ever getting a G4 laptop... but now, I am torn. Okay, so here's the deal. I will be starting the computer science program next semester (January) and I would enjoy having a laptop (or is it unnecessary for a poor college student?). I have never owned a laptop, but, like most of you I would like to get the most of my $1100-1300... I have also never owned a Macintosh nor used Mac OS X, but the idea of having something unix(ish) on a laptop is very appealing. Now I just don't know what to do... i could get the 14" 933 MHz ibook or get a asus m2n 1.4 GHz for the same price. I was hoping someone had the experience to point me in the right direction.
You can find a light, 12" laptop with an average of five hours of life even with use of a DVD player for $500? Buy it and share man!
TANSTAAFL
yeah, 800mhz G4, student-proof construction and 6 hr battery life for $1000 is such a turn-off.
... and finally Unix-based ...
however, if they raise the price to $2000and cut the battery life in half, perhaps you will be more impressed.
p.s.
what rock have you been living under? ibooks have run osx since day one... YEARS ago.
a bought 4 when they first came out like 3 years ago. they run osx fine with 1g of ram. great purchases, and aside from employees dropping them, absolutely no problems. my son's ibook has been great also, and runs osx and some games fine for his needs, but i would recommend a g4 for anything intensive.
My first reaction was "great, the iBook is the same as the PowerBook I bought a few months ago". After a few minutes digging, though, there are some real differences, though they're subtle. So Apple managed to give the core benefits of the PB to the iBook at a somewhat lower price, which is a good thing, even if it does reduce the product differentiation a bit.
:-)
The differences I can see are:
- Bluetooth is extra (an internal module, like AirPort).
- No SuperDrive option. This is a big deal to me -- I do backups on DVD-R's (you don't want to back 60 GB onto CD-R's!).
- No DVI out (also none on my PB, but there is on new ones)
- White plastic instead of metal case.
- 0.3 pounds heavier, perhaps 1/2 inch thicker.
- 10 GB smaller hard drives
- Plastic probably more impact resistant than metal (but also leads to case being thicker).
- $500 more for PowerBook.
So overall, a tradeoff. I'm still as happy as ever with my 12" PB, but now more people can buy most of what I've got, and while that makes it a little less exclusive, that's really a good thing...
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
What's up with the Malcolm X references? The 10.3 box is black with a silver X (a la movie) and the OS is called Panther...
The Register reported that dabs.com had made an advert reading "iBook G4" but dabs claimed it was a mistake... in this case I think it was, but it's still interesting. This update to the iBook (and eMac) line seems to have come completely out of the blue.
damn him! he's just pulled another $1100.00 out of my wallet!
As much as I criticize Apple, now and then they do something I really, really like.
This time I actually let out an entirely involuntary orgasmic moan at my desk.
"Asus' latest model, the M2N, is sold in the US only as a barebone notebook ((i.e., no CPU, RAM, hard drive or operating system). However, it does have Intel's 855GM chipset with integrated graphics and Intel's WLAN module (Pro/ WLAN2100), and that makes it worthy of the name Centrino. For this review, we used a 1.6 GHz Pentium-M processor with this model."
and, how does this compare to an iBook? it's like buying a car with no seats, engine, wheels/tires, and an empty gas tank! but, they cost the same amount! huh?
Maybe before you go off to buy a Mac, you might want to know there is a windows version of EV:Nova and you can download it here
Car analogies are weak--the Audi really does go faster than the Kia. The iBook does NOT run faster than a comparably priced Intel laptop.
The screen size is the turnoff to me. A 12' screen is way too small for me to get anything done on.
I was considering buying the 12 inch powerbook until I actually saw the screen sitting next to the 15. Now I am sure that I do not want a twelve inch but don't want to pay the extra for the 15 inch.
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
I just got my G5 1.8GHz last Friday. Totally sweet. Yeah, a G4 laptop would be cool but the G5 is just so totally slick. Can't wait for 10.3 to show up and see it really shine.
Guess I'll hold onto my G3 266MHz laptop for a few more months. It's topped out with OSX 10.2.8 (10.3 isn't supposed to install on equipment that didn't ship with USB ports). I imagine that there'll be a hack to let 10.3 install on older Macs.
I drank what? -- Socrates
640 ought to be enough for anybody, 640 ought to be enough for you.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I run a Tralfaz Emulator. I need 768 at least!
This
> I gaurantee that you haven't heard a story of someone
> dropping an IBM laptop and it shattering badly. IBM make
> by far the toughest laptops in the world (which aren't
> specifically ruggedised) You can stand on them, drop
> them, kick them shake them etc. and they just won't break.
*cough*bullshit*cough*
IBM laptops are designed for a six month life cycle. After that, the execs who pay big bucks for them are supposed to pass them on to juniors and get themselves a new laptop. The passed on laptop happily fails within a month or two, leaving the junior owner in a tight spot. Ruggedized. HAH!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
... does anybody know if there are other resellers in Germany than Gravis and Apple itself?
....
... uh, now the price hurts again.
And can someone tell me why the add-on options for the iBook in the Apple Online Store don't apply for the Students Rabatt?
Anyhow, the new 14'' iBook is pretty much the machine I want + iPod, + iSight, + 640 MB RAM,
I actually had my wife considering an iBook for her next laptop, because she wanted iTunes. But now that she's got iTunes on her existing (Windows) laptop, there will be no iminent iBook purchase.
Thanks Mr. Jobs.
MORTAR COMBAT!
The two questions I always ask in response to this question are "how much do you want to spend?" and "what do you want to use it for?" All of the current Macs will run OS X and basic Internet and Office applications with no performance problems (just add RAM). If portability is of any interest to you, the Apple laptops are great with regards to relative performance and durability. On the other hand, if future expansion/upgrades are important to you (and they may be, considering you're interested in playing games), the desktop is the way to go. Deciding between a G4 desktop and the G5 will likely be a cost consideration. If you can afford the G5, its performance justifies the cost. The G4 desktops can be had for considerably less money, but still offer good performance (especially in dual-processor configurations). Obviously if top of the line performance is critical, you must choose the G5, but you can easily save enough for an iPod and additional RAM if you go for the G4.
I was considering buying one of these yesterday, but decided to wait a week to see if I can find something better. Glad I did now :)
One thing I would like to ask those who have an iBook already: What's the battery life like? It sayed 6 hours in the UK Apple store for the pre-G4 12" version, which would be amazing if it was true. They've changed it to the rather vague "extra-long battery life" for the G4 version.
http://store.apple.com
What about fans? The PowerBooks have fans, which I really dislike. One of the great things about the previous iBooks is that they ran truly truly silent! I don't know if the new G4 iBooks have fans, but I sure hope not.
OK, so you're a student. BAM. Except for CPU (which I've heard isn't bad in the iBook), it's just as good as the Dell outrageously low priced Inspiron 1100 deal of the week (typed from such a Dell, but I didn't have a choice on that :-|).
I believe you still have time to cancel the order, if you act soon. Apple is pretty good about this. Now, which product you want is up to you.... -Iowa
"He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap
BTW, that even refers to the 14.1" model.
yeah but the powerbook is so much prettier...
I am planning on looking at that. I was just commenting on why someone wouldnt want that "excellent deal" for under $1000
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
Holy crow! What's the resolution on that?
because: one, the screen res and clarity kicks ass. try looking a that POS dell screen for anhour or two. you'll get a headache. two, the keyboard is a dream to type/code on (except no g**damn delete key. oh wait, i use vim, just hit x). three, because it just plain freakin works. you pay for what you get. buy some POS markup ODM portable from dell/hp/sony, etc., you get what you pay for. i'll tkae the rock solid os x, the tough cover, and the greta ergonomics (and yes, it does matter.) i ahve a 12"/700mhz ibook. i love it. one thing you can be sure of. even if i ran linux on any laptop, which i would do, not a single laptop would ever gain the relgious following that apple's do. and it's not an OS thing either. beacuse we'd all be running debian on or stinkads.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
then the G3. So the Powerbook should still be significantly faster.
All iBook (dual usb) have a fan. Take it apart and look. Normally can't hear it though.
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
Perhaps you speak of the newer IBM Thinkpads that were basically designed and built in Taiwan by Acer. However, the Thinkpads that were IBM-designed and built in IBM-owned facilities *are* that tough.
I just plunked down three bills to get myself an off-lease 600E. The thing is *built*. The finish is completely coated in a rubberized coating so that even french-fry fingers won't slip. It seems to be made with a metal frame and plastic shell over the metal. Even though the thing only weighs 5 pounds, it feels very, very solid. (Yeah, I know there are much lighter lappies out there but this is the lightest one I have ever owned.)
Oh yeah...this is the only IBM Thinkpad that Big Blue took the trouble to get Linux certified. Here's a link to an old /. article about it.. The big gripe in the article was about how everything but the modem worked. Guess what: IBM did write and release Linux drivers for the MWave modem in this model! It took them a while, but they are out there now.
You can get 600Es cheap at Computer Geeks and at other places that sell off-lease Thinkpads...I suspect the reason why they are all over the place now is because they were popular around the apex of the Dot-bomb boom, and now there's a glut because so many of the folks who were carrying those around are now baristas at Starbucks. ^_^
Oh yeah, to pull this back on topic: the only thing built tougher than a Thinkpad is a PowerBook. Ph33r the mighty Wallstreet/Lombard/Pismo...those are tough mofos. Same with the iToiletSeat iMacs...those were designed with K-12 students in mind, just like the legendary eMate NewtonOS device. Even the old 100-series PowerBooks are tough as nails. And everyone I know with an Ice iBook has stories of how durable their iBook is.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I do agree about the screen size. 12 inch screens are too small. I plan to get a 15 inch PB when I replace my current PB G3. Hopefully I can hold out until G5s make it to the PowerBooks. Based on history, I'm guessing G5s around the end of 2004.
If you're an apple user, chances are good the girls *AND* the guys want to be with you.
O:-)
hehehe
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
I was about to scream when I saw the 12" G4 iBook for $1100. I paid $1200 for a refurbed 12" 867Mhz PB (Direct from Apple, got a 20GB iPod for $270, too!). Then I realized that if I added the bluetooth module (yes, I use it) and bumped the HD to 40GB (what I have in the PB), it would only be about $25 cheaper. I'm not upset now. I'd still buy the refurbed PB for the slight speed bump and cool design.
I can't seem to get Photoshop and Office to run on Linux. Safari and iTunes both seem to have problems, too. How did you get them to work? I guess my rsync backup scripts would work, at least.
"We have nothing in common, your attitude annoys me, and your political views are appalling."
> Seriously, what other laptops are better/equivalent ?
The Compaq Armadas (before they cheapened them) were built like their name. They were a bit heavier, but they were tough, had everything built in, and had a nice tactile feel. (You just can't beat the graphite feel of the old Armadas.) Then Compaq changed them to a square, boxy thing that matched every *other* POS on the market.
At that point, I was forced to switch to the VAIOs with Magnesium cases. Small, thin, light, every feature under the sun, and tough enough to use a weapon against a mugger. These days, I'd tell people to go for the Apples. The iBooks are built better than the old Armadas and the PowerBooks simply outclass the VAIO line.
Whatever you do tho, NEVER pay money for a Dell laptop. They've got to have the worst construction I have ever seen in a laptop. Guess that's why they try to sell you the docking station. You're not supposed to carry it anywhere!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Whatever though, Apple doesn't make such an iBook. It does do a 12" and 14". Both are, sadly, 1024x768, which is my objection - I'd happily use a 1400x1000 10" with OS X, but 1024x768 is just a little too cramped. (And yes, I know much of OS X is scalable. But much of it isn't, and the default font sizes keep popping up.)
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
The value equation has to include software, and specifically operating system. I believe OSX tips the balance in favor of the iBook.
Not to mention finding a 802.11g card that is supported under Linux, and then installing it... Linux: PnHnCnSnR (Plug-n-Hack-n-Compile-n-Swear=n=Redo)
It costs 1000 more to buy the same spec Powerbook in the UK than in the US?
:P
From the US store a 17" G4 powerbook with 2GB ram, faster HDD, backpack, extra battery and chuck in an Ipod for good measure comes in at 2978 at todays exchange rate. The same spec system from the UK store costs 3978. Judging by this I'd be better off ordering from the US and having it shipped. It would even be cheaper to get a flight to New York and buy one in person.
I have to admit I'm not actually very likely to actually buy one.... my other half might have something to say about it if I blow the budget for outr new bathroom on a laptop
If this is true, then I'll save my money a little longer and hold out for a G5 rather than a G4 PowerBook. I had just heard some bad reports about its thermals in a couple of places. That said, a few weeks back people were claiming you'd never be able to put the G5 in an Xserve, but it looks like they've done it...
I have all the attachments for the iBook to hook this up to TV's via RCA or Svideo, but since the iBook has the VGA output port and powerbooks DVI, they won't work with each other. I understand the reasoning, but still it doesn't make a lot of since.
I bought this laptop about 6 weeks before 10.2 was annouced, but I couldn't wait anylonger as I was getting ready to leave for a semester abroad and 10.2 wasn't shipping until after I would have left and I wanted a good month to make sure it all worked correctly before going.
This iBook will proably last me another 2 or 3 years at least, if not longer. Chances are my next purchase will be a G5 tower sometime after the first of the year. Honestly I am waiting for Final Cut Pro to add 64-bit extensions before buying a new tower.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
Given how new the computer would be, you're almost compelled to wipe the HD before the upgrade - which stretches things out a bit longer, and also means that you would be loathe to install much the first few days. Who wants that? I'm with the original poster, I would just wait a few days when it said it would ship with the new OS (or go down to an Apple store and hope for 10% off G5's the day of Panther's release).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
But wait until you get your first iTunes bill!! Then we will see if you have avoided the Jobs Monetary Distorion Field, Mr Mortar.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Its the next logical step.
eMac -> iMac -> PowerMac
eBook -> iBook -> PowerBook
I think Apple can do an eBook right.
Compact form factor.
High resolution screen.
Simple intuitive interface.
It would also be cool if Apple allowed you to buy books and magazines in PDF format to read on your new eBook like the iTunes Music Store.
I just noticed that there's no multiple monitor support on the ibook G4. I find using an extended desktop spanning 2 monitors to be significantly more efficient to whatever I'm working on.
At least for me, that's enough for me to justify a powerbook 12" instead of the ibook.
I've been using 1600x1200 on my desktop since... a really suave Tektronix X terminal I had as a co-op at Cisco in like '95. I've weaseled a way to have it at every job, and I have my very own 21" FD Trinitron at home. When you're programming or doing systems administration, having a huge landscape is a plus.
So when I finally let myself buy a 12" PowerBook a couple of months ago... I started out with the Sony hooked up and an external keyboard and mouse when I was at my desk. I went through the usual novelty period of using both displays, but within a few weeks I noticed that my monitor was sitting there just showing off its wallpaper 99% of the time, and I was doing all my work on the LCD. I turned the monitor off about a month ago, and haven't used it since.
The reasons as I see them, in retrospect:
- Overall ergonomics: My PowerBook is comfortable to use as-is. More parts just make it more complicated. I do continue to use an outboard mouse.
- Display quality: Side-by-side, I think the LCD looks better. I've always liked the precision of LCD, and coupled with well-anti-aliased text, it's my display of choice.
- Tabs: My browser, my instant messenger of choice, and my terminal program all do tabs. For me, they let me organize what I'm doing far better than real estate ever did.
- Transparency: I thought it was going to be another one of those novelty phases... but I very quickly got into the habit of reading the documentation in the browser in the background while working in the transparent terminal above it. It's actually more efficient, I think... no more eyes darting around looking for things, it's all stacked up.
I was specifically looking for a 12" Apple... I wanted something I could throw in my bookbag and take everywhere. I thought I was going to feel cramped on the screen (1024x768? I'm not a peasant!)... but just the opposite, I'm more comfortable on my PowerBook than I have ever been elsewhere. I work on it 8-12 hours a day, and couldn't be happier.
So that's my $0.02--maybe you wouldn't be so unhappy with it, after all. Too bad there's no 2-week test drive option.
this is a great point. for one, apple could never substantially increase their share without dramatically changing their structure. i was an econ major, not business, but i know a a little about vert/horiz integration and economic scalability. apple is a "niche" player. to be able to compete with the dell $799 un-inspiron or the best buy special o' the week, they would have to cut back on what makes them a "mac". then they are not different, and they cannot compete, because they can't scale that high. so, they are better off being where they are. if they change, they don't compete, they die. great point.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Check the number of comments within Apple articles vs. the rest. We love Apple stories on Slashdot, they generate great discussions. BTW you can remove Apple stories from your main page if you want. Problem solved.
Or else the story wouldn't be posted you worthless sack of opinionated horse shit. Your pathetic attempt at being an asshole -- er, I mean sharing your 'insight' -- is so unappreciated that I am sure if there were a mechanism to ban you from participating in these discussions, you would be swiftly kicked. Get over yourself. No one cares what you think, AC, so get a life. The anonymous 'fuck Apple users' shit is tired. Find a hobby other than venting your own self-hatred and delusion at others who have done nothing more to you than share an interest in computing. Otherwise, go suck your own dick, you infantile jackass.
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Today I'd be hard pressed to choose -- one big plus on the PB is the *digital* video out, which lets you attach a Studio display.
One of the main uses of a laptop is to give presentations, and that almost universally requires a VGA output. The fact that the PowerBooks now require a dongle to connect to VGA is a nuisance IMO. And DVI doesn't make enough of a difference in terms of quality to be worth it.
"It comes in YARDS?"
"..."
"I'm getting one."
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Uhh kettle, pot's on the phone for you.
You think you have it bad? I bought a 12" PB a month before the refresh. Now the iBook is almost better than my PB, at only 60% of the cost.
>Does anybody care about Mercedes's share of the entire automotive industry? Of course not.
Your analogy is flawed: you don't use a car to run software, whereas a computer is useless if you cannot run on it the software you want.
You moron.
Actually there is something worse...An arrogant asshole who doesn't understand the language, is incapable of reasoned discourse, and is convinced that other people give a shit about his worthless opinion which is really just purile mud slinging by a coward -- zealot -- yeah right, I think we know who the zealot is...By the way that is a pretty big word 'zealot'... You may have a big dick, but you sure have a small brain...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Uh, i think you're right but your perception of Apple's segment is all wrong. First time users are NOT apple's market anymore. First time users have been buying "whatever's cheapest" for the past few years.
Apple's market is now experienced computer users who find that the Windows world has failed them and the Linux world still takes too much effort. It is people who want to USE computers and are tired of FIXING them. This includes many students and artists and lawyers and writers and scientists whose first priority is not securing and optimizing their computer's environment.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
If IBM, and not Apple, made the sexiest notebooks in the known universe.
Gnome is a pretty feeble Aqua substitute dude.
This is too little, too late for Apple. They're dying, and everyone sees it except the Mac users themselves.
This is a funny statement. I'm not entirely sure why. It's something like a Roman Centurion around 200 AD saying "Christianity is dying. I mean, why shell out for one god when you can have a whole pantheon, and with significantly fewer commandments to follow!"
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Cool! Thanks man. Will be nice not losing my beige G3 at home, either.
I drank what? -- Socrates
They include Sound Studio recording software with the iBooks... which is interesting since they don't have audio in...
This is pretty good software, esp free, but you gotta buy an iMic from Griffen or some other USB Audio-in dongle to use it (except with the built in mic, but I don't think anyone will be "digitizing their vinyl collection" with the built in mic.
Like anyone can even know that
The book you describe would be very nice for doing crap work...internet, word processing, etc...but would be completely insufficient for what I use my laptop(s) for: managing digital photos, collecting and jukeboxing mp3s, photoshop, and a bit of light programming (shell and java). My g3 600 barely makes it.
A g4 933, WITH a radeon moving complex GUI functions off the main chip and a faster hard disc for the inevitable swapping, would seem infinitely faster than your book.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Wrong. Apple cares about their market share. It's a company. They exist to make money. Make no mistake: if they could have the market share Microsoft does, they'd take it in a second.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I have a 500 mhz ibook. I like it. The question really is should I have to Hack the firmware to get it to work. The video card is more than capable.
Also I checked the apple sight. Still "Video Mirroring" to external monitor is supported which is apple speak for you can't change the resolution.
sigh.... 32 megs of vides ram...
Yeah, I've got an iBook SE 466 and just upgraded to a 15" AlBook. Biggest problem with the iBook SE, 800x600 resolution. Especially with OS X, you've got to resize everything constantly and can't fit anything on the screen.
Of course, if the new iBook's had resolution greater than 1024x768 (cmon Apple, 1280x1024!!), I would actually consider replacing it. Those iBooks are beasts! They make nice wireless satellites to your desktop too, if you don't always need the power on the road.
It normally doesn't run unless your doing a lot of processing which isn't happening 99% of the time.
Another thing missing in the iBook is an audio in. Sure it can be resolved with a Griffin PowerWave or iMic, but it still is nice to have one less device on my desk.
The 15" is a bit stiffer overall than the 17" mostly because it ain't as big. It's the finest notebook I've seen... the build quality rivals IBM Thinkpads. The 17" isn't very portable, mostly because it's about an inch or two wider than is comfortable for most cases. The 17's screen doesn't have as many extra pixels as you'd think. Personally I'd recommend the 15".
Wrists killing you? Not in 2 weeks. Learn Dvorak.
Apple's professional line of video software (DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut Pro, etc) requires a G4 processor. I assume the new iBook can now run these applications. This is great news - a lower end machine that can run some very powerful software. Get that DV cam out! My powerbook elitism declined this morning.
Plus, very important for Video Nerds:
iBook = up to 640 MB
Powerbook = up to 1.25GB
Big difference!
Damn those pesky terrorists
no, you still et a bigger cache, faster bus, duel display, more memory expansion, smaller and lighter, and you look kick ass with it.
:-)
don't worry about it.
it is nice to know though that the G5 will be a long time coming to the iBook, so wen I buy mine in a year or so, I will be happy with it for a long time
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
No, but it does run a fairly sane OS. It is also supported well, and very nicely designed. I understand (I've never owned one) that iBooks are pretty rugged. Battery life is also outstanding.
These observations often don't apply to "a comparably priced Intel laptop".
For me, though, the 15" Powerbook is definitely a better fit. ;-)
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
(whiny voice sound) Keeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh! Keeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!
Ahhh, the sound of driving a quality car in the city.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Car analogies are fair indeed: nobody buys a car on performance and top speed specs alone. We have to like driving it at ordinary speeds, enjoy the looks, etc.
The driving experience of my iBook has o so little to do with its speed and so much with its well-thought design and ergomics.
Posted from my 17" powerbook, woohhahaha....
> If prices are the same, why would I pay the premium for a Powerbook?
Why buy a PowerBook instead of a new iBook?
Bigger Screen - First, the obvious stuff: you can't buy a 15" or 17" iBook. There are only two options: 12" or 14". If you want a really big screen, you have to buy a PowerBook. (However, if you want a small screen, you can buy a 12" PowerBook.)
Bigger Brain - The G4 processor is the computer "brain" that does most of the computer's heavy lifting. The G4 processors inside the new iBooks range from 800 MHz to 1 GHz. The PowerBooks start at 1 GHz and go up to 1.33 GHz. Faster is better.
Bigger Pipes - Behind the scenes, the various "pipes" that transport data from place to place inside PowerBooks (e.g. the data "bus") have more capacity than the data pipes inside the iBooks. In other words, PowerBooks are designed to "think" more quickly.
SuperDrive - PowerBooks have a SuperDrive that can record ("burn") on DVD or CD disks. iBooks can play DVDs, but they can only record on CD. This is one of the least obvious differences between iBook and PowerBook -- you simply can't buy an iBook that records on DVD.
More memory capacity - The iBook G4 can be upgraded to 640 MB of memory (RAM), but that's the limit. The PowerBook G4 can use up to 2 GB of RAM. If you're working with professional quality audio or video stuff, this matters. (The RAM that ships inside PowerBooks is also better (faster) than iBook RAM.)
Better short-term memory - Programs that temporarily store stuff in "cache" memory will perform better on a PowerBook. The PowerBook G4 has a bigger L2 cache (512k vs. 256k). You may never notice the difference, but it's there.
Faster Networking - iBooks support standard Ethernet network connections (10/100BASE-T Fast Ethernet). PowerBooks support Gigabit Ethernet connections, which are ten times faster.
Firewire 800 - The iBook G4 has a standard FireWire connector. PowerBooks add support for Firewire 800, which is twice as fast.
More Video - An iBook can connect to an external computer monitor. PowerBooks can also connected to digital monitors (DVI), and can "span" video images across more than one screen. This is especially useful for video pros (and anyone else who needs lots of screen real estate.)
More Audio - iBooks have headphone and speaker jacks to send audio out. PowerBooks also have a line in jack so you can record from an external source without any additional hardware. (Add-on USB audio input devices are available that work with iBooks.)
Summary:
iBooks are still primarily for students and home users; PowerBooks are still aimed primarily at professionals. Consider all the facts before you make your purchase.
Key difference is the lack of DVI out. The 12" PB allows you to use a spiffy Apple display (with a DVI-ADC converter).
I see this one coming: "no one is ever gonna ...
need more than 640 Mb of RAM"
Just like Mercedes doesn't sell well to single people under the age of 25 You didn't go to USC or UCLA did ya?
Buy Crapway M500...
Pay Microsoft Tax...
Install Linux...
Days later, get Gnome 2.4.x...
Get OSX Gnome theme...
Get OSX Background...
Begin tearing out hair...
Realize how stupid this whole process has been...
Sell M500 on eBay for half of what you paid for it...
Go to Apple Store and actually buy iBook with OS X installed...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Anyone care to guess when we'll see G5 Powerbooks. I'd rather have one of those than getting the G5 tower.
Which is why x86 computers are useless to me.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
People actually like Apple products!!! Slashdot people no less -- Hell did freeze over. No one gives a flying fuck about the next Dell Opti-whoop-dee-doo or the HP Crapillion. We all know that there are cheaper boxes and that you can get such and such performance for X% less money...No one cares...this is not a competition to see who can get what for whatever...Apple computers are great and that does not mean that other rigs aren't -- I don't see why non-Apple users are so threatened by this...Please, keep using your system of choice...but lay off the constant whining about Apple...We don't care...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
She doesn't use the start menu, she places shortcuts to the applications she uses on the desktop.
And it's not the jukebox software, she's been missing song downloads since Napster went under. She liked LimeWire but the RIAA successfully scared us away from using P2P software.
MORTAR COMBAT!
I wonder if Apple will think this too aggressive but an ad campaign to show the costs people spend on their 'habits'/'addictions' versus what they spend on technology purchases.
People whine about the extra price in RAM or if Apple would just shave $200 off hear, offer a headless system and presto!
How about people stop sucking down $12 a day worth of Lattes/Mochas, etc or better yet cut back on their pack a day smoking habit to half a pack.
Over the course of one year you inhale and urinate out costs that could have you with a brand new G5, in some cases, and at least a new iBook for the general case.
Kudos to Starbucks, Tulleys and others who are able to capitalize on the weaknesses of the individual but shame on those that bitch Apple is being too expensive to purchase as their reason for not experiencing OS X.
P.S. I have my daily coffee, I just purchase it at $8 for 3 lbs from Costco and grind it myself. And no I don't smoke. I'm also the same person who goes to Starbucks or Tuley's and orders only a Grande drip, period.
I already had a PC based DAW (digital audio worksation). But decided upon swithing back to the Mac with the ibook. One of the main reasons I chose the iBook over a Powerbook was because of how quiet they are. When you're recording classical guitar with a sensitive condenser microphone-it's nice not pick up the sound of a computer. Most of the time my iBook 700 is as quiet as can be. My Athlon box, on the other hand, generates huge amounts of heat and fan noise. Even the turbulence of the air coming out of the back of the pc generates a huge amount of noise.
having just recieved my 900 MHz G3 iBook in the mail 4 days ago, I was pretty pissed to see that Apple unveiled a new line of iBooks.
However, I called Apple, and it turned out I qualified for some kind of price protection. I am not allowed to return my iBook and get a new one (since my iBook was "custom built" by having extra RAM and an Airport card added), but they are going to credit my Visa $190.
Hope this helps anyone else who just bought an iBook. CALL APPLE!!! they may have some money for you....
WHAT?
Have you actually compared any Thinkpads to other companies' models? Have you held them and worked with them? Have you looked inside them and compared what you saw to the majority of other manufacturers' chassises?
IBM's laptops are designed with more structural integrity clearance built into their chassis and more quality control in their components than the vast majority of other manufacturers. I know, I have seen enough of them. For any structural impact/wear test you can think of, IBM's laptops on average will come out ahead of any competitor.
For the record, I own a T40, and it has the toughest chassis for its dimensions I have ever seen. It's still flimsier than I would like it to be, but it's not even comparable to the competitors. I expect to use it as my main computer for at least 3 more years, and it should sustain multiple drops and other severe conditions in the meantime.
Don't even get me started on their other advantages like component quality and expandability. IBM offers the most advanced integrated laptop line on the market, and the price is right.
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Now i am really screwed. I was almost decided to buy the 12" powerbook and now i could get 2 inches bigger screen with the same ram and cpu ghz for 100$ less.
Which one should i get? My current laptop has 12" too so screen size doesn't matter that much (both have the same resolutions anyway)
I dont think i will be using the video output.
I care most about raw speed of the laptop, since i have read that mac laptops are slow and i should get at least 512mb ram.
A 1ghz mac laptop would be the equivalent of what pc's cpu speed?
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
I am in one of the neighbourhoods where Apple has one of their stores. Speaking solely from the experience of spending way too much time hanging out at said store and drooling over the keypads, you're dead wrong about it being a first-time buyer's solution. The most common thing overheard when people are using the GUI is "that's so much better than Windows." Not "that's so easily done, this is my only frame of reference."
And you're dead right about the digital hub being part of the allure. They have each type of device you can use for sale on a freaking pedestal. I have definitely seen a lot of Camedias and Palms and iPods sold as accessories alongside PCs. But few of the purchasers are computer virgins.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Will the new logic boards fit in the older model iBooks? My iBook needs a new logic board anyway, 'cause of a bad RAM chip. (Naturally, the one that went bad was the one soldered to the board, not the one that's easily replacable. All Hail Murphy.)
"When I smile, I have a mouth full of teeth; when I frown, I'm not even here."
apparently, mercedes DOES care, because they bought Chrysler. Why else would they buy friggin Chrysler?
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
No. All Powerbooks were upgraded last month. September 16, IIRC. It'll be a while for another upgrade.
I'm sure the new G5 PBs will come out only a few days after I get my new G4 PB.
--
dman123 forever!
Filtering out the -1s and 0s since 1999.
Although you can order an iBook with a maximum of 640 MB, it still has one slot open. The maximum supported is 1.25 GB.
Funny you should mention that, since that does seem to be the case on the flip side. My wife's girlfriend (my ex-girlfriend) moved out a month ago- just before my wife started using a Mac as her primary machine. Now suddenly half of our female friends are hitting on her- even ones that didn't previously identify as bisexual.
:-)
I guess that grape iMac really IS a chick magnet.
-Cybrex
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
if you buy an apple computer with a educational discount, applecare is included with your purchase! I didnt realize this when I got my ibook, and I ended up buying the applecare later (at a discount).
Moreover, the rest of the market is dominated by companies that move a lot of poduct but make a very small profit on each one. Trying to compete in that space is incredibly difficult, as margins are so low it's hard to differentiate your product. In what way is a Dell better than a Gateway or whatever? They're essentially the same exact thing, the only reason people would choose one over the other is brand awareness.
Apple would rather sell fewer computers at more of a profit to people who are willing to pay more for quality, and they're doing just fine.
no...there isnt. i'm one of the boys who hits on bois i see with ibooks/pb's. thanks apple....for giving mo's a self-identifier. [woe unto the heteros who carry macs around...]
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
Though I must say it now makes the G5 powerbooks look very much more likely since keeping the iBook at a g3 was the only thing I thought showed that they wheren't on the horizon within 6 months or so.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Come on, moderators, either respond to a message like this or don't moderate - this needs to be clarified. There are no inaccessible slots in any Mac, including Powerbooks. There are slots that are more difficult to get to but you can still get to them. The parent comment is utter BULLSHIT.
Quintus malus puer est.
iBook Tech Specs
scroll down to "Technical Specifications", it says :
Processor and memory
compare this to
PowerBook Tech Specs
which says :
Processor and Memory
Why do the iBook specs leave out the "Velocity Engine" reference?
Maybe because it's not there. If it was there, Apple would market as being there. As much as I really am a fan of Apple, this was a bad move by their marketing folks.
So there is a reason why you might want to still consider that PowerBook G4. Personally, I don't care how fast it is, if it doesn't have a "Velocity Engine", Apple shouldn't call it a G4. It *is* misleading. Sure, Dell or IBM would do the same, but I do in fact expect more from Apple.
(no text)
If you look at the "Technical Specifications" page for the new iBooks, you'll notice there is NO mention of the "Velocity Engine". Same for the new "G4" eMac.
Any other Technical Specifications page for any other "G4" Apple offers, they say "with Velocity Engine".
I am afraid the iBook and eMac may not *have* a "Velocity Engine", or Apple would advertise it, wouldn't they ? These might be IBM chips, but they are not IBM chips with "Altivec". They may be "G4" in name only, i.e. we're marketing guys, we're willing to call it "G4" just because it's over 800 Mhz... this totally sucks if it's the case. I hope I'm wrong and Apple updates the Tech Specs to include mention of Velocity Engine, but I am afraid that Apple might have just stooped to the level of other hardware companies here.
Knowing that Apple's entire line is now G4s or better has made my day! I no longer have to steer clients away from the iBook because our Altivec-tuned modelling engine will crawl on it. I hope more developers will use Altivec now that they know every Mac will support it. Man, I haven't felt this good since Apple moved to PowerPCs and every machine from then on had an FPU!
> It normally doesn't run
:-(
Although recently i had it turn on and never turn off, except if you put the machine to sleep. This still happened when left sleeping over night.
A reboot stopped it, but killed my 56 day uptime.
Read a little more carefully next time. Both the Apple Store and the page you linked to say 640MB is the max: 128MB built-in, and up to a 512MB SO-DIMM in the one available slot.
The "old" (non-DVI) 12" AluBooks, like mine, were also able to have only up to 640 MB of RAM.
So you're right only, if you compare to new 12"DVI PBook
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
Ermmm, Apple are a computer hardware manufacturer. Microsoft's share of this market is ~= 0% (as it includes only mice and keyboards). Apple's share is considerably higher than Microsoft's ;-)
;-)
If you are looking at the OS market, then you are right, Apple would love to be the dominant player, but only because of all the extra hardware they would sell
I don't believe Apple would have a chance of getting to be the majority OS vendor in the x86 computer market, because firstly they don't currently have the resources to be able to maintain their software quality on the huge mess that is the x86 platform, and secondly, if they went for that market Microsoft would just refuse to license Windows to manufacturers that installed Apple's OS on their machines, so there is no path to market.
Of course, that's a circular argument - if Apple had licensed their OS before Windows existed (which they probably had the opportunity to do), then they would likely be the majority OS vendor now. At the time, though, there wasn't an established business model for bing able to make money from an OS in existence. One of Microsoft's biggest innovations was coming up with a way (albeit unethical and illegal) to make money in this market.
It's something like a Roman Centurion around 200 AD saying "Christianity is dying. I mean, why shell out for one god when you can have a whole pantheon, and with significantly fewer commandments to follow!"
:)
that was damn funny.
... like I nearly did, how ticked off are you?
Prevent Windows piracy. Use Linux instead.
To get a delete (i assume you mean forward delete) just hold the fn key when you press delete.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I run dnetc, you insensetive clod!
Ron Paul 2012
I was viewing the specs and I noticed that the battery was listed as a 50w/h on the 12.1" iBook, as opposed to a 41w/h on the 12" PowerBook. In the past, I know PowerBooks had bigger batteries than iBooks. Does anyone with a G3 iBook know how much theirs is?
My Systems
I'd figure on waiting a year or so before you see G5 Powerbooks. For one, the iBooks would need to up their specs to roughly equivelent (or a shade more) than the current G4 powerbook offerings (figure at least 6 months till the next iBook update), and if they don't get there with one update, you'll need to wait till the second update in another 6 months. And the G4 powerbooks will still have to go through two more upgrade cycles (one sometime next feb and then another about six months later).
Finaly, they still need to work on adjusting the heat dissapation. If the ammount of effort and concentration on cooling the G5 towers is any indication, you're going to see a new case design for the powerbooks with the G5s
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
The 750GX DOES NOT include a SIMD/AltiVec unit, and these machines DO NOT have IBM 750GX CPUs in them.
the 750GX, due soon at a fabrication plant near you, is essentially a 750FX with additional L2 cache (1MB vs. 512K), and some minor reworking to accomodate higher clocking and better caching. Expect it to run in the 900MHz-1.2GHz range over it's lifetime.
The 750VX, which nobody has even claimed to have seen yet, is the rumored IBM 750+AltiVec CPU. It would be IBM's answer to Motorola's G4 chip. Specs are up in the air.
I think if you were to tear one of these new notebooks open you'd see a Motorola 7XXX branded CPU, which tend to favor AltiVec in exchange for on-die cache. What leads me to this conclusion? The IBM whitepapers for the 750GX have been out since June, and their specs just don't match with this laptop's, while Motorola's offerings clearly do.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
You're kidding right? Talk to a lawer? He bought the iBook just after it came out, and that would make it sometime back in April. Apple has a standard upgrade pattern of roughly 6 months between updates. At the time, he obviously thought it was worth it, and common sense dictates that computers will get faster.
The only case he would have is if Apple guaranteed him that this would be the fastest iBook ever. And since that's unreasonable, there is no case.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
It's been Apple, Apple, Apple in the news for weeks. What are the Microsofties up to?
Oh yeah - they say they patched a vulnerability in Hotmail.
Just so you know, here is a prediction (based on past actions) of the next upgrades for each of the models:
G4 iBooks: Apr. 2004 + or - a month
eMacs: Apr. 2004 + or - a month
G4 Powerbooks: Between Jan. 2004 and Mar. 2004 (some confusion here due to a constant stream of minor updates this year, best guess of Feb)
iMacs: Nov 2003 or Dec 2003
G5s: January 2004 + or - a month
Please note that these aren't official numbers, they are best guesses based on observation about the macintosh upgrade cycle, these numbers are subject to change.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
> 256K vs. 512K of cache also gives a distinction between the iBook and powerbook lines that Apple may wish to have as one of the reasons to justify their price difference as well.
:-)
It surprises me that nobody noticed yet that the later G3 iBooks (May 2002 and later AFAIK) had 512KB of cache. So would this G4 maybe be slower than a G3 when running non-AltiVec applications?
Also, don't expect the G5 in portable devices soon. Just look at the fans in the G5, try to put one of them in a laptop.
Well... I wasn't gonna say it.
I'm taking issue with your claim that students and scientists (specifically student scientists) are well served by using Apple computers.
Some background. I am an undergraduate student studying science. I am an Apple Certified Technician. I have pretty much exclusively used Macs my entire life. I work for the IST department of my college.
The amount of Macs (~2% of all computers)on my campus is lower (by a little more than half) than Apple's market share. As I attend a small (1000 students) private college, I know all the students that own Macs. None of them (apart from me) are science students. Very few of them are "creative" (film or art) users. Most tend to be "just" students. The only thing they tend to have in common is coming from a wealthy background.
As much as I love using Macs, it's my opinion students are unlikely - and, I think in most cases, ill advised - to bring one to college.
Why?
Easy: compatibility and software.
For example. I'm having to dump my eMac to use my old PC. My organic chemistry textbook includes activities with ChemOffice Ltd (student cost: $70). ChemOffice Ltd does not exist for OS X. ChemOffice Ultra 8.0 does exist for OS X, but (a) only ChemDraw is carbonized (Chem3d [etc.] has to be run in Classic mode, which sucks) (b) ChemOffice Ultra 8.0 costs $490 for students.
To give a more inclusive examples: networking to printers, browsing computers on the network, and taking full advantage of Exchange server capabilities (LDAP) are much easier (or, simply, are possible) on a PC. The common student would be much better servered using a PC and spending the time she'd spend configuring her Mac studying instead.
I know that there's a wealth of software that fink/x11 is bringing to OS X, but ease of use and ease of accessability to the software seems to be the sticking point. Sure, I'd much rather stay with my eMac and run some x11 or unix software to do my molecular modelling. However, search as I may I haven't found any good options that work well with the instructions the book gives me.
Right now Apple seems to be in a situation much like HP's calculators are; like an HP calculator, a Mac is (in my opinion) a much better product than the competition (Wintel in the case of Macs, TI-8x calculators in the case of HP calcs). However, since the other has become a standard, it is assumed that every(rather than the typical) student is a PC user with a TI calculator. No (or very few) alternatives are available for those students who are not.
At any rate. This is, I suppose, a roundabout way to ask who, exactly, you know in the sciences that's big on Macs. In lab we have an awesome Sun setup (running Spartan) for modelling. I only know one chem professor that uses a Mac. The Physics dpt uses iBooks for student labs because of the lab software that's available for them ("Determine the rate of acceleration..."), but other than that everything's Sun or Wintel.
And let me add this to avoid one "easy" thoughtless response: yeah, my household does make more than $75k/year, but that still doesn't mean that I'm going to pay $420 more for software when I'm going to be using the same features in it that I would in the $70 version. Not to be a prick, but the way one gets to have money is by not spending it on outrageously priced items when equally competent options are available at significantly lower costs.
There are definately students who benefit from owning a Mac (film, art and [arguably] language students come to mind). Science and math students are probably done a disservice by purchasing a Mac (ex: let me know how to transfer files from my eMac to my HP48GX - I can do it on my clunker wintel laptop though). I think the general student probably is better served by getting a PC because of the time and hassles they'll save at most schools. 'Course, if they're going to Reed, then they're lucky and can use their Mac and be happy, healthy, prosperous and wise.
No, I mean mine is a Rev. A 12" PB; I have the same cache, the same bus, and the same memory expansion. The only different is weight/design, and the dual display capibilities, along with a slightly faster processor.
Does anybody care about Mercedes's share of the entire automotive industry?
I think Mercedes does...
Eh... I'm always really curious about Apple as well and I haven't owned one of their products since my Apple IIgs. For me it's OSX and basically wanting a laptop running it but... then I realize that I cannot justify the cost for aesthetics, since that's all it would be for me.
It's kinda like the classic cars I want but would never buy. If I got one as a gift or as a prize I'd take it, keep it and use it. However, I don't really *need* one. OSX is pretty but there's nothing I use that I need it for. If I was a video editor or a graphic artist I'd spend the extra so I didn't have to use Windows, but as a programmer what does OSX give me that I don't get with Linux or BSD?
I have no problem admitting that I like Macs and would love to own one. At the same time I have no problem admitting that I'm too cheap to follow through with it. This might change with my impending marriage because the intended female seems to think she *needs* a Mac.
The 15" Powerbook also features factory defects, such as a poorly designed casing behind the LCD panel, causing pressure on it to form white splotches in the middle of the screen.
Right now, I think anyone would be a fool to buy one. People who just received theirs are having these screen problems in as little as the first few days to 1 week of use. Apple was doing warranty replacements, but so far, the replacements had the same issues as the originals.
(To Apple's credit, though, many of the Apple support people are starting to admit they're aware of the problem - and some new orders for 15" Powerbooks have stopped shipping. It looks like some sort of fix is in the works.)
You missed the fact that ibooks do NOT have a PCMCIA slot, that's a biggie to me.
Athlon 64 Laptops are available now. So I don't think apple will be the first with a 64bit laptop.
http://www.voodoopc.com/systems/m855.aspx
There are a few others, but thats the only one I know off hand. Pretty good considering the chip was only released a few weeks ago.
- The early worm gets eaten by the bird.
Did someone say Powerbook G5 soon?
That's the only way Apple could get away with the thin line between the iBook and Powerbook. I for one can't wait for that beast.
Nothing from nowhere I'm no one at all
My iBook plays games, movies, runs OSX, OS9, Linux, and Windows 2k in emulation via Virtual PC.
What can your Dell Inspiron do that my Apple can't?
Wait...I know...Catch a virus!
Scott
It *is* unusual that it's not mentioned in their description of the G4 iBook but the eMac tech specs mentions "Velocity Engine." I bet it's either an oversight or just a marketing change to stop pushing the "Velocity Engine" as a marketing term.
Young wiseass! One need not spend every waking moment in the wallow to know that it is MUD for PIGS. I say to you, do you need even FIVE MINUTES in a Wal-mart to figure out that their business plan is selling shitty goods for less money to people who don't care about quality?
It is the exact opposite situation with Apple. And if you think a person can't see that by SHOPPING AT THEIR STORE, you are what the Belgians call a "fucking idiot."
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Yeah, and she just wants a new rug too. That's all. Honest. But then it doesn't match the drapes... oh well, it's just new drapes. Couch... reupholstered. Paint? Wallpaper. Pretty soon, she's got a whole new room.
Welcome to the flock brother. Let us know what she thinks of her new iBook after you've been lectured about iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, iChat, iSight, and iGiveUPHeresYourDamniBookAlready! ;)
For those of you who are curious how the G4 will affect the power usage in the new iBook, here is some info (800 MHz only).
e et/MPC7455RXNXPNS.pdf
First, there are two versions of MPC7455 that Motorola produces (ignoring the MPC7445 for now since exact same statements apply), they are designated by XPC7455RX800LC and XPC7455RX800NC. The LC version, with a core voltage of 1.6V is the one that's published on Motorola's website, it has a power rating of 17W (typical) and 24W (Max), which is terrible for notebook application. The NC version, on the other hand, has a core voltage of 1.3V and its power rating is 11.2W (Typical) and 15.9W (Max) which is reasonable. I believe this is the version that Apple's using in their 12'' iBook G4.
You can see for yourself at http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sh
With this move, they've removed one of the biggest complaints of thier entry laptop, while still making it fairly affordable, and really not too crippled considering the specs and price.
They might finally be waking up to the idea of making a good entry level alternative that's equally attrative as their higher end stuff....
AC comments get piped to
Nor does a 12" G4 PB. IMHO the 12" iBook and 12" PB G4 are pretty similar, though I guess if you add up all the little differences they are worth a few hundred bucks.
Maybe once we get to see some iBook vs. PB benchmarks, the differences will become clearer.
The 15" Powerbook also features factory defects, such as a poorly designed casing behind the LCD panel, causing pressure on it to form white splotches in the middle of the screen.
I ordered a 1.25Ghz 15" PowerBook the day after they were announced. Being one of Apples less cared about customers in Europe it took 34 days to arrive. But it's mint, with no defects whatsoever. Everything fits flush and the screen is magnificent - no white spots, no scratches, no dead pixels.
I still have my original 500mhz G3 ibook. I highly recomend them. They take a pretty good beating and will run Linux and OS X. Cant promiss X will work on the newer models yet. It seems everytime apple upgrades they change the video slightly, but the ppc developers seem to be on top of it. In the LUG I regularly go to I think theres 8 or so iBooks running debian. We're all pretty happy with them.
You said it. There is definitely a small group of latently homosexual, self-hating fascists, running 'round these parts...but that is probably a compliment to these tweenies. "Blah, blah Apple fanboy, blah blah...zealot, blah blah, gay, blah, blah, blah..." Maybe they'll take a hint a meet up for a circle jerk with their KKK brethren, light a cross and if we're lucky, blow themselves off the face of the Earth.
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
i'm not a particular fan of IBM, but their hardware division rules: all the kit looks a bit like darth vader, sure, but it does what it says on the tin with a guaranteed TCO. when i reported a BIOS issue with a particular card we use for data capture, their hardware team WROTE A NEW BIOS FOR US in a week: how much better can you get?
Too bad there's no 2-week test drive option
I really wish there was one. I have never owned any apple system and hacn't used one since those shoebox looking ones with the 5' screen. I am hesitant to buy one without having any real experience with one.
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
Well, there's a whole message thread discussing it here:
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http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threa
Someone posted a picture of the problem here:
http://homepage.mac.com/filmmaker2002/PhotoAlbu
A petition to recall the Powerbook 15" for this issue has been posted here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/applelcd/petition
And here's an article on MacFixIt regarding the issue (plus some talk of problems people had with lots of bad RAM shipping in Powerbook 15" models):
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20031
None of this even touches on yet another issue some Powerbook 15" users are reporting -- latches that stick. So basically, no - I'd rather wait a while before buying a new Powerbook 15". If yours keeps working great, teriffic - but the odds don't seem to be good.
Sorry for the false alarm guys, the words "Velocity Engine" are on the iBook pages ( at least, they are now ), they just weren't where I expected to see them and I missed it.
Actually, this smells like a marketing slip-up!
I've confirmed, with the help of a co-worker's browser cache, that Apple changed thier web page since I first posted about this! It now says "Velocity Engine" in the iBook page as well, on the first paragraph no less!!
Too funny! I'm glad to learn that the omission was a mistake!!
Tadpole has UltraSparc laptops that run Solaris, they've been around for a while. There were also DEC Alpha laptops for a whole.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
The new iBook will have the normal G4 velocity engine.
If it wasn't in the tech specs before...it is now.
/nt
just think about what other companies want for their so called sub-notebooks (which, actually, contain 12" screens)... and MHz never counted on apple computers
I am starting to enjoy the 'choad' posts...
And no, I am not comparing the 'people who dislike Apple' to KKK members, I'm comparing the "rabid 'gay-slandering' 'faggot-spouting' inconsiderate, intolerant/untolerable 'fanboy-calling' assholes who troll the Apple stories", to KKK members...Is that any clearer?
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
As I said elsewhere,I really look forward to the 'choad' troll. I appreciate the constant reminder of my superiority over AC choad -- not based on what I buy, or how much I spend, or what OS I chose to use, but rather for my deep understanding of the sad situation AC choad must be in. Threatened, lost in the world, unable to express itself in normal social situations -- forced to vent it's rabid anger and venom to no one in particular. --
Calling me an uniformed moron??? How am I uninformed? I work on my computer. I make back a hundred-fold the investment I put into my hardware -- money I would not earn if I used a different platform. I do not slander or ridicule other people's choices of computer -- I used Linux before you probably got your first PC with Windows 98. I am a person -- there are many like me -- we constitute 'people' -- and we do actually like Apple products -- we don't play games on our computers, we work on them. We don't have penis-size competitions regarding the speed of our boxes, or the free-ness of our OS, we are usually too busy doing real work -- close the dorm room door and forget about getting a life -- you have already proven that you will never have one -- Apple computer or not...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Actually, can we use the term "Fan-Man" at least...I haven't been a boy in decades...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON