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Satellites Used to Stop Car Thieves in Pakistan
zymurgy_cat writes "Yahoo has an interesting story about a
company in Pakistan that uses satellites and mobile phone networks to monitor and disable stolen cars. Looks like they can also monitor people's driving habits and whether or not they're using the air conditioner. The article comments about how much easier it is for them to do things like disabling cars remotely than in Western countries. (Remind me to never rent a car in Pakistan.)"
Pakistan? I thought they'd just shoot the mule.
You've been reminded.
Give me a break slashguys...
Stopping stolen car = good thing
Disabling stolen car = good thing
Monitoring driving habits = good/bad thing
Good if you are an employer and want to make sure your employees are not abusing the company time. Bad if this information is used to harm your personal rights...
Just because this is in a different nation that many of you consider "backwards" doesn't mean that this is a stupid idea... or an upcoming technology here in America.
Davak
Are they seriously that concerned over gas there?
find / -name "*.sig" | xargs rm
Driving along drinking your morning coffee, when your car goes from 40-0 and your face goes from normal to peeling in 2 seconds.
I have a Cig, but do you have a light?
Here i was thinking some unsuspecting car thief was getting walloped over the head with a $1.5B night-stick descending from the heavens....
But hey! we were able to return most of that '78 corolla taxi!
do() || do_not();
Onstar has had these capabilities in most GM equipped cars for quite some time now. They use the tracking abilities for catching car thieves, they use Onstar to unlock car doors if you lock your keys in the car, they also have the ability to monitor or change any of the guages in the car as well. Whether they use all of the technology or not is another question, but the technology is in the US already.
There are several companys in Brazil doing the same, using GPS, satellites and cel phones. It has been done for eight years for cargo trucks and 3 years ago for cars.
Try reading the article next time, people. There is no rights violation going on here. This is something people CHOOSE to have installed in their car and actually PAY for the service. It's not like it's automatically placed in every car so that they can watch you wherever you go.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Yeah, nobody tell General Motors about this or they might invent OnStar.
-h-
Dude, where's my car?
- Qatar
Allah! That's too far!
its a RENTAL car.. its not a privately owned vehicle. It was a *choice* that they rented it, and signed the waiver of privacy.
Now when they get to the stage where the police can track and control private cars.. then we can discuss violations..
But then again its their conutry, they can just change the law to make it mandatory, like they are going to do here in the US soon.
Many people believe its not a "right" to drive, our constitution does guarantee that you have basic rights of the pursuit of happiness, which in this day and age REQUIRES private transportation.. So extrapolation means driving a guaranteed right, here at least... .
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Behind the satellite system ... stands businessman and crime fighter Jameel Yusuf
Crime fighter, eh? Does that mean he wears his underwear outside of his pants?
In Britain, that would be considered a marked improvement.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
How about during magnetic solar storms (like what we're getting right now)?
could that make them hunt down the wrong guy and cut his arm off?
do() || do_not();
If it was my business, I'd want it in as many of my cars as possible. I'd also want a little camera in the steering wheel that would take a picture of who ever was driving the vechile, like an ATM machine that would start wirelessly transmitting ASAP when the car is reported stolen.
You don't like it; don't try to steal it. Plain and simple. As far as monitoring the cars, you are renting them, not buying them.
Friday, Oct 24, 2003 Car's 'black box' convicts Montreal driver/ canada_home&articleID=1441967
Quebec police won a dangerous-driving conviction Friday using evidence from the "black box" in the car, a first in the province.
The black box or event data recorder (EDR), which automatically records a car's speed and other information, showed Eric Gauthier was driving at least 131 km/h when he hit another car in downtown Montreal in April of 2001.
Yacine Zinet, 19, was killed in the crash.
There were no witnesses, but police used the black box in 20-year-old Gauthier's car to determine his speed and build a case against him.
Here's the rest: http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=cbc
Onstar can control your car remotely? That's news to me.
Reprise the theme song and roll the credits!
I used to work for a company that would track cars with a GPS/Cellphone tracker, installed in the vehicles of people who bought them, the service was primarily to give courtesy services, such as directions and locate businesses in proximity, Through a radius search in a database which was merged with Navtech data.
The Tracker was superior technologically to that of OnStar, in fact the service was called OnGuard, the main advantage of their tracker is that you did not have to put the customer on hold to get an update on their location (OnStar does). If the vehicle is running we could get a location on it when we would call the cell, if the car was off we would have a 7 minute window every 1 hour to call it if it was in a cell area.
There were other uses for the trackers. Police agencies throughout the States and Canada used them in "bait" cars where they'd leave the keys on the seat of the car, and wait for someone to take it for a ride, with the door handles triggering a switch that'd call us.
Unfortunately they ceased operations in our area, and moved else where. It was a great pioneering technology.
With the exception of what is legally allowed in the USA, I see no difference in this and Lowjack or other tracking systems.
To my understanding, many large commercial fleets already have tracking systems in place, which was originally designed for the trucking industry.
Also, most new cars have extensive logging. I was unaware of this until the shop manager at my VW dealership complimented my easy driving. I asked how he knew, and told me some details and funny stories about how it's already saved them money.
For instance, Joe Abusive buys a new VW. He doesn't like the deal he got, so he breaks stuff on his car because he's one of those types. Say, he sits on his porch and clicks the locks on and off with his remote until they are burned out. Upon taking it back to the dealer, they can see he accessed his car locks remotely 9500 times in the last 24 hours. A clear sign of abuse and would not be covered by warranty. That's a true story, by the way. I think the car in question was a new Passat.
The tracking systems for truckers has been around for 10-15 years. It seems about that long ago that my uncle (a truck driver) was complaining about not being able to speed or take senic routes anymore due to some heavy new electronics on board.
If I were a company owner and had a fleet of cars for employees to use for business use, I'd definitely investigate getting a service like this. Everyone I've known who uses a company car on a regular basis always drives them like there's no tomorrow. A terrible waste for the folks paying for that luxury.
On all semi trucks made after 2000 they have an onboard computer system for the ABS this is also tied into the Qualcom communications system. My company had monthly printouts they showed where I had driven and when and where I slept. They than reviewed my driving style (shifting vs. RPM's how fast was I going when I hit the brakes - was it slow even pressure or quick pumping of the pedal - They even showed how fast and what gear to what RPM I rolled down hills in.) In the event of a highjack or even driver off course they will turn the governer down to allow idle only (i.e. driver drove to many hours, or unsafe). I did see one episode the satillite transmitter went out on a "high dollar" load, 4 hours after signal died the driver pulls into our terminal for fuel. He swiped the fuel card and the computer on the fuel pump sent the location into headquarters. Before he finished fueling the governor was set to no more than Idle and the police (city, county, state, and a couple US marshals) were sourounding the place. He was tackled and stuffed into a squad car till it was all sorted out.
I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
Considering your odds of getting carjacked, held for ransom, and then murdered in the name of Allah in Pakistan are about 1:1, I'm all for it.
If I had to go to Pakistan, then the more people on my side watching me 24/7 the better.
Fuck privacy. I'd be saying, "if you lose sight of me for more than 5 seconds, drop the fucking hammer!"
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Shouldn't we be, within reason? Have you totalled how much you spend on gas in a given year? It's not exactly chump change to most people there.
Not as good as the flamethrower option for South African cars: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9812/11/flame.thro wer.car/
For an idea of why this was ever considered you can read a few articles of Natasha Marchetti's Mandela Porn: http://exile.ru/176/176160000.html
Guaranteed to make you loose that good feeling that you got when you helped defeat Apartheid.
Can you see me now? GOOOD.
The rental companies will pay for this also. Provided the device can be removed when the car is sold. How many time have you heard the line "Who cares it's just a rental?".
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
After actually READING the article and not reading much into the headline, it looks a lot like lojack - available right here is the USA as well if you want to track your own car to prevent theft and misuse (in the case of corporate vehicles). /. editors are wannabe NYT headline writers...
Here we use things like Lo-Jack for the consumer, and AirIQ for the corporation.
0 0. html
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,45163,
Anyhoo, most insurance companies either flat-out weren't interested in covering the car, or asked for incredibly high premiums. One *did* offer a premium in-line with other similar cars *but* with the condition that I have satellite tracking fitted by one of a couple of companies nominated by them. IIRC, at the time, the cost of installing the kit would have been circa AUD$1000-$1500. There was an annual monitoring fee too, don't remember what it was, but it was at least a couple-o hundred bucks.
This whole business of locating a car, waiting for the police to catch up, then disabling the vehicle at a point when the orificer on the scene advises that it is safe to do so is something that has been advertised in car/bike 'enthusiast' circles here for quite some time.
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Can you just imagine: Road side herf guns stopping runners by satelite. Ronald Reagan would approve.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
I don't think Bin Laden is going to fill out the required paperwork to rent a car.
I have yet to learn ... Whats a 2nd world country?
I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
I think this, 'QuikTrak', was one of the companies that the insurance mob pointed me to...
Also, a year-old story from the Sydney Morning Herald on a carjacked porsche recovered within 30 mins with satellite doo-da's...
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Those units of measure don't make sense. The power consumed by the compressor isn't related to the power put through the other devices, and should be fairly constant.
Let's take a test case where you run your car for 60 miles at 30 mph and then 60 miles at 60 miles per hour. In the first case, your compressor's running for 120 seconds, in the second case, you're running for 60 seconds. Over the same distance, your compressor will consume twice the energy in the first case as in the second.
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The article mentions 300 cars stolen a month in Karachi which has population about 13 million. Total new cars sold in Pakistan is about 80000 a year which has a population of 150 million. At that proportion, Karachi share is about 7000 cars new cars a year. That means 1 out of 2 cars on average gets stolen in its lifetime!
Wait until drive-by wire becomes standard on GM cars. Then remote control is merely a matter of software...
I learned how to do 180's in a GradPrix rental by yanking the E-brake and turning the wheel sharply.
The brake quit working after the 5th or 6th demonstration of my new skill.
Unless it includes a driver.
(For a Westerner) the low additional cost of a chaufeur is nothing vs. the chance of becoming the victim of someone trying to take you for a ride on an insurance scam through a staged accident.
This is something to keep in mind in virually all third world countries!
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Just like you do in USA? ha! ha! ha!
So is there a rush of vehicle thefts during periods of high sunspot activity and coronal mass ejections like now?
Kevin Fox
Big Brother is very much alive.....
I believe that if you're not doing anything wrong then you shouldn't care if this company/goverment knows where you're going...
I mean, what use could they give to this information?
Privacy freaks look to me like if they want to do something wrong or illegal.
I even wouldn't mind having the same service back home. I rather give up some of my overrated "privacy" but be able to recover my car in case of theft, or being able to located in case of a kidnap, for instance.
Actually, if done responsibly, having this aggregate information of the driving habits of a population would help a lot in the future planning of transportation networks, etc...
I know my opinion sort of differs from the usual trend, but thats what I think.
" Trakker can record a vehicle's movements and even excessive engine idling -- an indication a driver may be using fuel-guzzling air-conditioning without permission."
I'm going to Phoenix this weekend. Sure hope my friend asked his wife for permission to guzzle some fuel...
"Failure is not an option, it's part of the standard package"
I remember having seen a discussion about this right here on /.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Onstar can unlock the door on your car, and can listen into the vehicle to hear what is happening. It can also pinpoint the vehicle's location.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
I'm not sure you've actually argued against my point - that the dealer should only be allowed to view relevant data from the black box.
As for your example... I'm pretty sure a corrupt dealer and mechanic could either BLANK your black box, or replace it with a blank one without your knowledge, anyway.
That, of course, brings up another possibilty - how long until someone hacks the black box through the standard dataport and starts selling a module to fake the recording to ensure it complies with your version of events?
You've got them confused with Israel
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
I almost forgot, it also monitors the airbag. If your airbag deploys it calls the car phone. If you don't pick up the phone and tell them everything is just peachy they roll EMS (ambulance, etc.) to your location.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
In A.D. 2003
....
Car was stolening
Thief: What happen?
Mechanic: Someone set up us the brake.
Car Jacker: We get signal.
Thief: What!
Car Jacker: Radio turn on.
Thief: It's You!!
Cops: How are you gentlemen!!
Cops: All your brake are belong to us.
Cops: You are on the way to destruction.
Thief: What you say!!
Cops: You have no chance to escape make your time.
Cops: Ha Ha Ha Ha
Thief: Take off every 'Zig'!!
Car Jacker: You know what you doing.
Thief: Move 'Zig'.
Car Jacker: For great justice.
Fellowship 9/11
Look, there is nothing wrong with disabling a stolen car if this is done by just shutting off the engine. Stop whining and get real, some countries have serious car theft problems.
;-), so I see no reason to be concerned.
and YOU are paying for the service. it is not like someone from the government is monitoring what you do with your own AC, rather a company doing that with its employees (which explains why they also monitor obvious signs of incompetent driving -- they obviously have a Boston-like situation with drivers in Pakistan
Yes. Someone could steal those records and track you. But it is probably a secondary concern when what you are worried about is kidnapping, theft, isn't it ?
has been in use in california for about 10 years now, GPS locator, engine kill switch, road-side assistance, etc...
BTW wether you pay for it or not EVERY CADDILAC has an active monitoring system running. Some friends had a new caddy but opted not to pay for the northstar system, while trying to find parking at a resturant in Vegas they went around the block like 8 times, the northstar operator came on and asked if they needed asistance, she was very helpful and polite but needless to say they were disturbed to find that their location data was being tracked anyways, and further it is being stored as aggregate data, but their unique vehicle id number is associated with this data, and the fact that they are not paying for the service means they have no ability to opt out, and Caddilac stated that the system was tied into the airbags, and anti theft system, so removal or alteration would void warranty, and likely disable airbags and such....
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
The price tag for such a system is about EUR 1.500, plus EUR 30 monthly fee for the tracking and GSM communication costs (you can use the cellphone).
They are not tracking your every move, since that would be too costly; you're only being tracked when actively requested:
Entering the wrong or no access code when starting
Somebody hitting one of the 'Assistance' buttons (technical assistance, medical assistance, panic button)
Car movement without running engine (ie: being towed)
Crash sensors detected probable accident
Contacting their callcenter directly in case of theft (by either you or the police)
They have the power to remotely stop the vehicle (progressive slowdown initiated by motor management, stop the engine when the car is doing less than 5 km/hr), but can legally only do so when adviced by the police.
Will it put of possible thieves? May be.
Will the chances of retrieving the stolen vehicle increase? Probably
Will professional thieves be stopped by this? Absolutely not.
Okay... I'll do the stupid things first, then you shy people follow.
[Zappa]
Aussie cops must not have such great equipment.
Somehow, I always picture them having souped-up V8's with 'INTERCEPTOR' printed on the back...
A man is taking a walk in Central park in New York. Suddenly he sees a little girl being attacked by a pit bull. He runs over and starts fighting with the dog. He succeeds in killing the dog and saving the girl's life. A policeman who was watching the scene walks over and says:
"You are a hero, tomorrow you can read it in all the newspapers:
"Brave New Yorker saves the life of little girl"
The man says: - "But I am not a New Yorker!"
"Oh then it will say in newspapers in the morning:
'Brave American saves life of little girl'" - the policeman answers.
"But I am not an American!" - says the man. "Oh, what are you then?"
The man says: - "I am a Pakistani!" The next day the newspapers say:
"Islamic extremist kills American dog. Connections to terrorist networks are being explored"
I lived in Pakistan when I was young and my father was in the Foreign Service. It is definitely a place where I would feel safer if there were an RFID/GPS chip in me AND my car. It's just not very safe there for Westerners (or locals, either).
Are Pakistani chicks hot?
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
For whatever reason, no, they don't. I see a lot of stuff about US State cops kitting themselves out with proceeds from crime, etc, etc. That doesn't happen here - proceeds from crime go straight back into gummint coffers.
At various times they have dabbled with whatever was the latest/greatest/fastest. 10-15 years ago, when the Mitsubishi Cordia Turbo was the dogs nuts of fast small cars, the police in my state (NSW) got a few of them and let the Highway Patrol group use them. Apparently the Cordia went fast in a straight line, but couldn't go around corners particularly well. They quietly and quickly dissapeared.
More recently, the aforementioned Subaru Impreza WRX made an appearance. I saw a couple of those painted up in police colours in active use just a few years ago. Again, they have quietly dissapeared from the scene, dunno why.
Somehow, I always picture them having souped-up V8's with 'INTERCEPTOR' printed on the back...
Well, you're close-ish to the truth. NSW police have pretty much always had the Holden Commodore and/or the Ford Falcon (sorry, lots of evil javascript and flash there, couldn't find an alternative) de jour. They're low quality, fuel guzzling Australian built hunks-o-junk, but the manufacturers have probably backed the government into a support-local-industry corner, and they're probably only paying three-fiddy apiece for them (that's all they're worth!!!).
Both of those cars have a V8 in the model range, and I think the Highway Patrol at least get V8s. Most of the common-or-garden police cars I see around at the moment seem to be Holden Commodores, but Ford have an 'SV6' and 'SV8' model, gofasta ones that they're using in some police applications. No "Intruders" tho!
Here, I googled, and found a few pictures...
This is a pretty standard NSW Police card right now. (a holden commondoor)
This is an example of a Subaru Impreza WRX in NSW Police colours...
An old Mitsubishi Cordia Turbo
They just keep going back to Commodores and Falcons though...
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
In todays society its a right. ITs also revokable if you act stupid.
Just as the right to vote, or carry a firearm.
If you get convited of a felony, you loose many rights. But until then you get them. Including driving. ( 100 years ago, people walked.. today its different. If you cant drive then you cant surive in many areas.. simple as that. )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This photo shows a place (between the Shandur Pass and Gilgit) where we had to wait three hours while they re-dynamited the road...
Danny.
I have written over 900 book reviews
What isa "ram raider"?
Now if only they could put that in planes...hmmm...flame me. I don't care. You're birthday wasn't forever ruined by september 11th
Not as "hot" as your barnyard inbred american sluts.It is disappointing (actually not) to see the redneck attitude displayed toward another culture by most of the supposed "enlightened" /.s. I think most of the people here are especially the delusional americans are in no place to comment on socio-economic or psychological nature of another country whose ancient culture and civilizations can be traced to post sumerian times ( Mohenjadaro). When most of "enlightened" westerners were still learning how to make ants stick better to twigs for extraction...they were learning and innovating cultivation and irrigation. So show some respect where its due,and get over the delusion that you serve as a moral compass to the world.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
It costs about UKP 100 (US$150) a year - if the car gets moved or is opened when the key is not in the ignition, Tracker Network give me a ring on my cellphone. I've heard that people have also used Tracker to tell them where they left their car after a night at the pub!
Sure, now they can tell where I go and how fast I go - but we've got no privacy rights in the UK anyway so its not worth complaining about it.
rd
According to this site, "AVL is a microprocessor-based module with integrated GPS, and transmits all the vehicle's geo-reference and status data via radio or celullar phone. The AVL module, of compact size, is assembled in a high-resistence aluminium box (sealed), has simple and discrete installation and excellent performance and safety".
Another text states that "From your office, the [truck] fleet's owner controls and communicates with all his vehicles. It is possible query the status, the location, send short messages, commands and, among other possibilities, even shut down the engine remotely".
If you can read this, thank an english teacher.
The Holdens can't be much worse than the CNG-powered Chevy Luminas the city cops around here drive. The highway patrol is another matter... wouldn't want to try to outrun the CHP on the open road.
I saw some Commodores in New Zealand... not too impressive looking. But come to think of it, I can't remember seeing any cops in the whole two weeks I was there.