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New 20" iMac and Dual 1.8GHz PowerMac G5
joekra writes "Today, Apple released a new 20" iMac and a Dual 1.8GHz PowerMac G5. Both were accurately rumored at the last minute by the usual suspects. In fact, the Dual 1.8GHz G5 configuration was rumored back in July to shift demand away from the popular 2.0GHz PowerPC G5s." I'm holding out for a couple rounds of price drops, but I think a G5 is definitely in my future.
HUGE absolutley HUGE. I hope its not top heavy!
Erin Go Bragh!
Apple is poo, Apple is good.
Geez, where's my lithium...
Trolling is a art,
I've been putting off some upgrades recently, and I have been thinking pretty hard about making 'the switch' :).
Is there any advice for a Mac n00b on what to look for? I am coming from Linux and am mostly interested in a machine I can let the kids play games on. I may stick to windows if that is my only choice, but I would like to know what you guys do to keep your kids happy? and do the Disney games run on Mac since they are mostly Flash based?
These are still both great machines. I love my 17" iMac as a home machine, and a 20" screen is even more alluring.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
that powerbook would go very nice with the rumored 30" cinema display that should be out early next year - even though dell beat them to the 2.5 feet punch.
The currently Apple 20" flatscreen goes for $1299. You're paying $2199 for that attached to a 1.25GHz iMac... So in 3 years when the iMac is obsolete and the monitor is running fine, you can't attach that 20" flatscreen to anything. Hmm. Not good.
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Well, G5s are truly here now - and they've got the flashy specs to boot.
My advice? - Grab a G5 as soon as you can - they're fast, strong, and reliable. Yet, they do run the MacOS - which is fine if you're a artsy kinda person.
I use my windows machine for gaming. & My linux box for serious computing/recovery. I'd definitely only suggest the G5 if you're not into windwos gaming at all - 'cause other than that - Macs have all the rest of the fun!
With the 20" panel down near desk level it will still require less depth than a 20" CRT monitor.
Trolling is a art,
If you're still having problems ergomically with a screen that can be manuevered into any position, the problem is not with the computer. It's with your chair!
Today we salute you, Mr. Goofy Looking PC Designer.
"Mr. Goofy Looking PC Designer!"
Taking that tripped out table lamp and turning it in as a new computer design, and getting your boss to actually believe it and sell it? Hey, that's just part of the job.
"You were just stoned."
But wait! Why do better than that, when you can just start putting tackier and tackier large displays on the front? Why waste time away from your bong (which now looks suspicously like a new computer), when you can keep up your sumpin' sumpin'?
"Wow that's some good weed!"
Real men of genius.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Where's the 30" Cinema Display? I'm still waiting on that rumor (:
This 20" iMac is interesting, but i wonder how long the arm will hold up. And as someone else has pointed out - after the Mac is obsolete you still have a very expensive monitor that can't be moved elsewhere.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Since you are apparently new to Macs, are you familiar with Versiontracker. Its a good place to find programs for the Mac, what the latest version is, and what other people think of them.
You mean, a problem between his chair and the iMac screen ?
Still less space than a 20" LCD + desktop PC too, unless you cram the PC tower under your desk to fill up with dust bunnies.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Ergonomically this is not a good thing.
Where did you get the idea that it's bad ergonomically to look up at your screen? In fact that's the proper way to do it. At least that's what I learned from SGI's Ergonomics Center. And that says alot from a company that truly cares more about employee comfort and happiness than product development.
Just think about it though. Is it better to be hunched down looking at a monitor, or sitting upright looking straight ahead (or slightly up) at a monitor so you can have proper posture and not bend forward?
Nope. From their inception expandable Macs shipped with NuBus slots up to and including the PowerMac 6100, 7100, 8100 models. I believe all models that followed those released shipped with PCI.
Apple now offers its entire suite of professional applications optimized to leverage the performance advantages of the Power Mac G5. Mac-based hardware and software from Apple and our partners form the backbone of professional workflows at every level of video and audio production, so the industry moves with us. Keep up. Whatever your choice in tools and formats, there's room for them and for you on the Apple platform for professional digital production.
Apple - Software - Pro
My friend,
I still use a Mac SE30 as a print server and vintage program machine. I use a 20th Annivaersary Mac for financial/database work.
Se30 = almost 17 years old
TAM = 6 years old
If in 3 years this can access the internet, great, if it can photoshop, great, if it can print to USB printers, great, if it can be adapted to new technologies, great.
My SE30 can do most everything this new iMac can, just not in color and not as fast. It's hardly obsolete.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Too many comments along the lines of "That there is a big monitor to just throw away when the iMac is obsolete!"
People who buy iMacs don't want to upgrade them every year. They're home users who expect to buy a computer, and keep it until it breaks or some amazing reason comes out to get a new one. They upgrade only when new applications require it, which is why Apple focuses a lot on new features and software innovation to motivate people to upgrade.
Take a look on eBay at used Mac prices sometime, then rethink the "wasting a monitor" idea.
I think Apple would say that if that's the sort of thing you're inclined to do, then the iMac is not for you. It;s for people who aren't too curious about what's under that dome thinggy. OTOH, there is someone who will muck about and hack just about anything.
Helium balloons want to be free.
I don't use CRTs. They're a dead technology, and IMHO they just generally suck! ;)
Do you have any reasoning behind this? LCDs are flat and easier on the eyes but you can't get anything above 1280X1024 resolution for under $1000. I have seen 19" CRTs with 1600x1200 for just over $100.
A side from the cost, LCDs/plasmas have a huge problem with displaying true black. Anyone concerned with image quality usually goes with a CRT.
You have price, image quality, resolution, better viewing angle vs space, style.
CRTs are far from dead.
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
Ah, now the middle of the desktop is again clearly the best deal. I always buy from the middle of the line. The boost over the low end model is worth the price, but the difference between mid and high end is always a more severe premium.
Also, if you're going to buy the dual 1.8 GHz Mac, BUY IT NOW. You'll be happier this way. See, if the worst time to buy is just before a revision comes out, then you get further and further from that to the happiest point just after a revision comes out.
Start Running Better Polls
It was inevitable that the iMac would get an upgrade. I had no doubt at all.
Because I just bought a 17" iMac less than a month ago. Apple always upgrades boxes a month after I buy them.
However, I don't feel too bad about this one. It's $400 more, they didn't upgrade any other features other than the screen, and they didn't slash the price of the old model. Usually at least one of those latter two criteria apply to me.
The dually 1.8 GHz model is looking pretty sweet, though. The only difference (other than clock speed, of course) between that and the 2 GHz model is the video card, and changing to the Radeon 9600 is only a $50 BTO option. So you get nearly the same Mac for $500 less. I think the dually 1.8 G5 will sell quite briskly. This also speaks well to IBM's ability to get chips out of the factory and into systems. Hopefully the inevitable speedbump in January will really kick some booty.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Sure, you may want to hold out until the price drops, but what if it ends up like the Cube? An awsome machine that was only on the market for several months.
Save Sam and Max!
I just got my single 1.8GHz G5! Noooooo! Kahhhnnn!
I drank what? -- Socrates
Words right out of my mouth. I've posted to usenet asking if anyone's tried a hack yet, and some of the iMac deconstruction sites seem to suggest the wires are relatively easy to get to.
But if you could find a way to hack it, you're essentially getting an awfully cool monitor stand plus a Superdrive equipped G4 for $900. That's *much* easier to stomach.
Take apart at xlr8yourmac.com (look at "rainbow colored" wires)
Service manual
There was also a great Japanese site that showed the thing taken apart until the wires were dangling, but I always have the dangest time Googling in Japanese.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
The idea behind the iMac is to fill in the middle niche in their product line. The Firewire 800 and all the fancier jazz, comes on the higher-end models (G5, Powerbook). The iBook and iMac are in the middle, and you can still pick up OS 9 compat. G4s and the eMac at the low end. So the idea is to appeal to people who probably will be completely happy with Firewire 400. If you're doing something that really needs 800, they want you in the G5 line or Powerbook.
It might sound crazy, but that's how they operate. Apple isn't just selling the hardware though. They tend to cut fewer corners in their hardware designs, and they are aware their hardware is more expensive. They are selling the OS, the reliability, and the longetivity.
I have two windows boxes, a linux, a BSD, and six Macs. I use OS X daily, but I can tell you all my old Macs are still in service, and going strong. I cant say that about my older Windows machines (linux has this sort of survivability though). Apple has an interesting market strategy, but I don't think that the computers are dead in 3-4 years. It's a facinating thing to watch.
It's only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything...
I'm going to be in the market for the big Cinema Display pretty soon, and the one thing I would love to see in the next model is an iMac style arm so it's easy to position anywhere I want it.
That seems like such an obvious idea I'm surprised Apple hasn't done it.
Anyone know why not?
D
Yah - but that's why the Gods invented FireWire. Does everything need to be on the insides? Sheesh?!
... these /. mac fags should go get their own site and leave real enthusiasts/nerds alone.
Okay. I'll bite. Dear Mister Troll sir...as to us having a site of our own...we do. In fact we have several from which to choose. And, pray tell, what in your tiny little troll-like mind leads you to believe that Mac users are all of a particular sexual orientation of any kind at all? Or that mac users don't qualify as nerds? And by some strange twisting path of logic that we don't in some way belong here?Newsfalsh! The mac now not only sports a command line environment, but you can set your environment to your shell of choice!
I know, I know, please don't feel the trolls. Move along. Move along...
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
It now comes with new Netflix queue management software - at no extra charge!
OSHA says so. Even without OSHA, it's far more comfortable to sit up straight in a nice chair with my head tilted slightly down. Having it tilted slightly up hurts my shoulders after a few hours (fighting against gravity and all). When you read a book for hours on end, do you hold it up above eye level or down in your lap?
"Why Spend $2199 on a Propreitry hardware when I can get a Cheap $600 Linux box"
Linux requires skill to keep running correctly. No matter how easy you think it is, it's not. Compiling software, dependencies, kernel tweaks to get functionality you want, and of course, less than easy to learn GUIs.
When you buy a mac you get BSD stability, famously awesome hardware, and an awesome intuitivly easy GUI. Aside from an isolated problem, I have never had any issues with Apple computers. Although, in my wasted days of Linux, I had more issues than I could shake a stick at.
That being said, my desktop is running FreeBSD on a P3-1.2Ghz. Cheap, reliable, and perfectly set up for productivity. The hardware for this box cost me about $300 USD at the time. My TiBook cost me $1200. But, my TiBook was nearly ready to use straight out of the box. Do the dock shuffle, configure my shell, and away I went. My FreeBSD box on the other hand, is the culmination of years of learning. Even at my current level of knowledge, it take me an evening of downloading, configuring, compiling, and beating my head against my desk to arive at a workable unit.
Point being, time is money. My time is worth money anyways, if yours is not, I am sorry to hear it.
Pretty Pictures!
The most natural position for your eyes, neck, back, etc is to have the top of the screen at eye level, face on and parallel to your body. That way, your posture is more natural, and your eyes, neck, back, etc aren't strained by constant deviation from the norm.
If you're staring upwards at your screen, then your eyes are doing more work or your neck is, or a combination of both. Either way, the posture you'll adopt and the knock on effects it has on the rest of your anatomy is damaging to your long term health.
No, being hunched down over a monitor isn't good for you but, equally, having to arch your back and look upwards isn't good for you either.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The configuration you speak about - if I read correctly - is single processor.
... It runs Linux. Fine for you, totally inapropriate for me and many more people.
And it's not designed to do what a Mac does without blinking. It doesn't run PSD, i-apps, FCP,
Ripping people off would be trying to offer all that hardware without any added value. Apple's added value is huge.
The whole point of buying a Mac instead of something else is you get OS X and really worthwile goodies.
When Jobs gave that cute speach about the digital hub I thought "Yeah, right. I just bought my Cube and now he wants me to buy another mac to do all this?"
I still work solely on my Cube.
But now I have over 5000 family pictures in iPhoto, the best I export to web on a regular basis so that friends and family in Europe can share our joy. iTunes? Wow! iMovie same here. And I start my day clicking my News bookmark in Safari which loads 15 tabs simultaneously of US-, Belgian and Peruvian news-sites. There's a lot more I enjoy daily, but you get the point.
We don't look for the same in Computers, so much is clear, but even knowing Apple takes a big bite out of my budget, I don't agree with your statement: they're not ripping me off, they're offering extreme value.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Yea, the BLADE may be $1,700, but the chassis to put it in costs $12,000, and the modular power supply costs another $2,000. These are not the real prices, but guesses based on my previous experience with purchasing blade based components.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
A 20 inch powerbook? come now, that'd look so silly!
So go buy one. What's stopping you?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Acutally there are two reasons why CRTs are still not dead, and the true black is not one of them.
:)
a) Resolution, i.e. CRTs have an easier time displaying multiple resolutions whereas LCDs can only display properly their native resolution. Plus CRTs have finer dot pitches.
b) Refresh rates, certain LCDs may have great image quality for STATIONARY images, but when displaying moving images your refresh rate may not be high enough due to bandwidth issues.
For those reasons, oh and price, the CRTs will be far from dead for a while.
Oh, and the whole LCD color matching better than CRTs is quite bogus, I take you have not been into a serious print shop ever have you?
I'm still using my Cube. It's fully supported and looks like it still has some years in it.
:-)
If they discontinue a model it's always a good moment to buy end of stocks.
And afterwards it keeps resell values up. I can still sell my machine for more than half it's initial value.
Pray they discontinue the mac you bought
I think, therefore I am...I think.
and what pray tell qualifies as a real enthusiast or nerd?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Steve Jobs came back onboard, the product line was way out of hand. I seem to remember there being like 40 products avaialable, no one was sure which product were appropriate for whom.
Jobs (and I am sure lots of other smart people behind the scenes) introduced the 4 quadrants, and Apple suddenly had the easiest decision making avaiable of any computer manufacterer. Student, or on a budget? Want a laptop - iBook. Want a desktop - iMac. Professional? Want a laptop - Powerbook. Want a desktop - G4/G5.
Sure, being so simple might for a 'tweener' to make a choice between upper level and lower level, but creating a choice specific for the 'tweener' crowd makes for a polluted, evil product line. (Along with fragmented R&D costs, higher production costs, etc...)
So my question is, where the hell does a 20" iMac fit in? Certainly at a base cost of $2199 it doesn't fill anyones needs well. Sure, 20" of flat panel goodness aimed at the consumer market is a bit groundbreaking and good outside the box thinking (which I think Apple under Jobs is again known for) but how are you going to market it? Why are you doing to pollute the sales to the "low end" desktop iMac line, with a $2199 and up computer? If I've got $2000 to spend on a computer, do I want a G4 or an iMac? That decision was once made for me by the simple matrix, now that option isn't so simple.
The continued existance of the eMac must really drive Jobs nuts. An actual CRT! Son-of-a-bitch!
www.jackasscritics.com
I believe that is what confuses people about the whole monitor height issue. Most people do slouch a bit, to the point that your head is tilted down slightly, to look at a monitor which is above your head in a sea-level sense, but at a down-angle from eye-level.
The emac will take quite a beating especially if your kids like to touch the screen as it is the only CRT based mac there is.
You can save your LRT screen from the kids by adhering a clear sheet of plexiglass using double-stick foam tape to the "frame." Well, that's what we did. It works great. Kids touch the plexiglass and you can just clean it off. The only disadvantage is that it renders the mic useless.
Re. your point B. Refresh rate is more or less meaningless when it comes to LCD's. Most seem to have refresh-rate of 60Hz. That would give you FPS of 60FPS (more, if you disable VSYNC). 60FPS is more than enough, even for fast-paces games. Now, what matter more is the latency of the screen. Untill recently, the standard latency of LCD was around 25ms. In fast-paced games that wasn't good enough. But new panels have squeezed the latency down to 16ms, which is enough.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
You never see them posting about the latest Dell models do you? You missed the Slashdot tag line: "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters."
Pity the poor troll . . . not only does he despise Macs, but he feels strangely compelled to read any post that mentions them! Such passive-aggressive behavior may be the indication of some deeper mental disturbance . . .
The first computer I had was a BBC Micro. The "monitor" I used with it was a 12" b&w TV.
When I moved on to an Atari ST, I didn't want to put up with the old low resolution and quality of the TV picture, so I bought a new 12" "hi-res" mono monitor.
When I moved on to my first PC, I wanted colour. So I bought a new 14" colour VGA monitor.
When I moved on to my second PC, the old VGA monitor wasn't capable of more than 800x600, and really only 640x480 if you didn't want a headache. So I bought a new 15" multi-sync monitor.
Then, last year I wanted a Mac. Some people advised me not to get a 17" iMac because I'd have to ditch the monitor when the computer became obsolete. Funnily enough, I didn't take their advice.
Look, the 17" and 20" LCD monitors that are out right now are brilliant. But in 5 years time when the machine needs replacing it won't seem so great, and there will be a new better monitor out that you will want to buy. Trust me.
because when I'm writing music, I don't wish to have anything humming, let alone a desktop computer.
because the iMac takes less desktop space than anything else out there.
because the iMac's monitor can swivel, so when I'm infront of my keyboards, I can see the screen just by glancing at it, ideal when you're performing a piece live.
because any messing around with can be burned onto a DVD.
all for a very low price.
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They're not perfect:
Those hardware-only examples above are all post-Jobs. You're generally right: in fact, you missed the "all-in-one" design, inclusion of USB in the iMac, easy-open cases, the translucent plastics "fad", and the first to use WiFi. Recent smart decisions may include Serial ATA, DVI outs, PCI-X, Bluetooth, IEEE1394b, and 802.11g. These decisions and others are why the market rewards Mac users with a high resale value on eBay.
Sony has already stopped producing CRT computer monitors. Samsung and Philips will follow before the end of 2004.
The end is very near indeed. Plan now while you still have control over your budget.
Oh, and color matching....real shops use actual samples, not 'on screen' permutations. That is why the 'better than' debate is quite bogus.
Well... there was the naming computers after fruits phase that made me question Mac users sexuality followed by my best friend becoming a Mac user and then coming out of the closet.
*snickers*
Actually I like Macs but given that I'm a Linux/BSD-in-training type I'm rather hardware agnostic. My girlfriend is quickly becoming a Mac-o-holic... which increases the cost of technology based Christmas presents. It's the first time jewelry has looked cheap.
"Why Spend $2199 on a Propreitry hardware when I can get a Cheap $600 Linux box running Mandrake."
When you first get into Linux, everything is cool and exciting. Linux's inconsistencies, the plethora of weird and wonderful configuration files, the ever-changing procession of desktop environments, all of this is a challenge. It's something new to learn. You feel you're expanding your horizons.
Skip to about ten years after my first Linux installation, and the novelty has decidedly worn off. I just don't find it very interesting any more to have to think too much about my computer. The time I spend thinking about my computer is time I could be spending thinking about the things I want to do with that computer. I think JWZ summed it up when he said: 'If you made a Venn diagram, there would be two non-overlapping circles, one of which was labeled, "Times when I am truly happy" and the other of which was labeled, "Times when I am logged in as root, holding a cable, or have the case open."'
My 17" flat-panel iMac was the second-best computer investment I've ever made (with the best being my 15" TiBook). The iMac doesn't waste any space, it's incredibly quiet, it looks great, and it's several orders of magnitude less frustrating to deal with every day than my succession of Linux boxen. As someone who works with computers, I spend an inordinate amount of time in front of the damn things every day, and I consider the "luxury" spending to make that a more enjoyable and productive experience to be very, very well worth it.
If you want to save the money, if it's not a priority for you, that's entirely your prerogative. Just don't stand outside the window of the restaurant, munching your cheeseburger and muttering "Fillet steak? Who'd waste money on that?"
Charles Miller
The more I learn about the Internet, the more amazed I am that it works at all.
Well... there was the naming computers after fruits phase that made me question Mac users sexuality
:) Before Jobs started Apple, he lived for a while on a Fruitarian commune in Oregon. Many suppose that it was this experience that lead to the naming of the now famous computer company.
Okay, now I think I may have a clearer idea of why you may think of mac users as 'teh ghey', but I stand by my claim that there is NO commonality (sexual, political or otherwise) amongst mac users... except for a ruthless efficiency and fanatical devotion to the pope... But as to the naming of a computer comany after a fruit...has to do mostly with the bizarre dietary habits of Steve Jobs. Now he is the strictest of vegetarians...a VEGAN! The most dreaded strain of vegetarian at all. BUT before Steve-O was a vegetarian of any stripe he was a fruitarian. As far as I understand (I am an Atkins practicioning carnivour, and not a vegetarian or especially a "fruitarian") fruitairians not only eat only fruit...it is prohibited by some sects to eat any fruit that has not dropped naturally to the ground from the vine. NO HAND PICKING or OFF THE DAMN DIRTY HIPPY COMMUNE YOU GO!!!
Actually, as I google around, I find this supposedly direct quote:
I was actually a fruitarian at that point in time. I ate only fruit. Now I'm a garbage can like everyone else. And we were about three months late in filing a fictitious business name so I threatened to call the company Apple Computer unless someone suggested a more interesting name by five o'clock that day. Hoping to stimulate creativity. And it stuck. And that's why we're called Apple.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Since when is a GeForce FX 5200 considered blazing fast?
Moo!
I don't really use my old "fat mac" any more, but the SE 30 has some games that don't run anywhere else, so it's turned on occasionally. The Centris 610 works just fine for my 10 year old to read her email, draw with appleworks, and write school papers. Plus we can still find some old games in the $5 bin for it. The Beige G3 still plays DVDs just fine and works great as a music server since I have never liked iTunes as well as SoundJamMP (developed by the same team before they did iTunes for Apple). My G4 AiBook is my main computer now, but I don't think it will be dumped when I finally get a G5. My other child loves her G3 "flower power" iMac and will take it to college with her, my mom loves her G3 iMac, and my wife hated computers until I bought her a 15" G4 iMac last year. Will I get rid of any of those? No Way. They all work fine, and will continue to do their job for years and years. In the same timeframe however, I've been through about 7 different DOS and Windoze boxes, and have tossed them out with no regrets as the next one came along.
I will note that there are several errors in this article. Moshe writes" Under the hood, Panther introduced other important features like an update to FreeBSD 4.8 (OS X is based on FreeBSD, but the previous release used FreeBSD 3.2) ". Which is wrong on both counts. Panther (10.3) is synced with FreeBSD 5.0 and Jaguar (10.2) is synced with FreeBSD 4.4 (PDF). Aside from minor typos "Upon reboot, staring MS Word for the first time takes 6 seconds" (BYTE editors please make note).
The one problem I had with this article was the description of the noise generated by the dual-CPU G5. Moshe wrote "The noise the dual G5 makes is comparable to a hair dryer, and it can be heard from any room of my house". I had a 1.8 GHz G5 delivered to my office by our university's Apple representative for a few days to evaluate the machine. One of the features I was amazed by was how quiet the G5 was. In order to hear the G5 operate in my office, I had to turn off the following: SGI O2, the dual-CPU PIII 1GHz SGI 320, the G4 PowerMac + all the monitors including the 21" Intergraph behemoth monitor. The central air-conditioning into my office was still louder than my G5! Then I had to move my ear closer to the G5 casing to hear the fans operate with all other equipment turned off (only one of our professor's G4 Cube is quieter than the G5 loaner I got from Apple). Later that week I wrote to my Apple rep. "Those multiple fans are deathly quiet".
Here are some other dual-CPU G5 reviews on the G5:
Mac Addict review "GOOD NEWS: Fastest Mac ever. Exceptionally quiet. Easy, no-tools-required maintenance"
Twincities.com review "Indeed, removing one of G5's slab-like anodized-aluminum sides revealed nine fans that pump air along a network of inner wind tunnels. Switching on the Power Mac, I expected it to make a terrible racket despite Apple's assurances to the contrary. But, sure enough, the machine proved amazingly quiet for "the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer.""
So, when Moshe describes his dual-CPU G5 to be loud as a hairdryer I'm a little skeptical. Giving Moshe the benefit of the doubt of having a faster ATI Radeon 9800 Pro graphics card, he might have received a G5 with defective thermal sensors or something. Has anyone out there experienced their dual-CPU G5 with a ATI 9800 sound like a hairdryer???
did anyone else notice that they also bumped the RAM up to DDR333 across the line, they're all capable of bluetooth and airport extreme (previous the low end was not) and they updated the graphics cards, opting for a 64MB card in the 20" display? Plus a min. of 80GB of HD space?
...
And kept the same price point?
And day by day the Mac becomes an even BETTER value for the money