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New 20" iMac and Dual 1.8GHz PowerMac G5
joekra writes "Today, Apple released a new 20" iMac and a Dual 1.8GHz PowerMac G5. Both were accurately rumored at the last minute by the usual suspects. In fact, the Dual 1.8GHz G5 configuration was rumored back in July to shift demand away from the popular 2.0GHz PowerPC G5s." I'm holding out for a couple rounds of price drops, but I think a G5 is definitely in my future.
Christ i already made this joke
Enough with the crapple shit today
PS go fags in MA!
HUGE absolutley HUGE. I hope its not top heavy!
Erin Go Bragh!
see subject
Apple is poo, Apple is good.
Geez, where's my lithium...
Trolling is a art,
I've been putting off some upgrades recently, and I have been thinking pretty hard about making 'the switch' :).
Is there any advice for a Mac n00b on what to look for? I am coming from Linux and am mostly interested in a machine I can let the kids play games on. I may stick to windows if that is my only choice, but I would like to know what you guys do to keep your kids happy? and do the Disney games run on Mac since they are mostly Flash based?
16.11.2003 Oli niin hienoa Feenixissa eilen, paras Kras-keikka ikana, ja aikas monta oon nahnyt jo!! Te olitte mahtavia. Te OLETTE mahtavia. Ihan oon sanaton ja nukkunut 11/2 h viimesen 30 tunnin sisalla, mut ei se mitaan, Kras-energialla jaksaa! KIITOSKIITOSKIITOS!
:) Kiitos! Mutta Teemu vois lainaa Matin syntsatuolia, ois varmaan sopivampi korkeus?
:-) I would like to say Kiitos!!!! for the wonderful gig in Tavastia! Unfortutely I forgot to check after the show whether you had some merchandising going on, I was a little too pissed. Why does Tavastia sell wine in those big glasses anyway, I should blame them! Will you eventually play some gigs in France,too? "La Laiterie" in Strasbourg is a nice location, and it's much nearer to where I live (next year again) than any bigger city in Germany. I really would like to come to see you in Nosturi (the "Virus Crashus" has infected my rock chick heart, I'm afraid) but there might be some obstacles.
-Liisa da Pikkuinen
Kiitos Liisa da Pikkuinen!
-Tomi de Mynamaki.
16.11.2003 Pelastitte tylsan ja synkan marraskuuni (14.11. Seinajoella), kiitos siita! Varmaan hymyilyttaa viela aika kauan...
-Soile
Kiitos. Mista sun kotikaupunki on saanut nimensa? (spekuloitiin sita keikkabussissa...)
16.11.2003 Makin haluan kiittaa Feenixin keikasta. Kiitos! Oli kylla tosi upeeta.
-Maija
Kiitos kiitos.
16.11.2003 Is the new album only released in Finland or is there any possibility to get the new album in Germany?
-Thies
Its going to be released in Germany quite soon. I'll put the exact release date here asap
16.11.2003 Kiitos miljoonasti Turusta! Oli sanoinkuvaamattoman uskomatonta. Eika se ollut unta. Kiitos kiitos kiitos. Olette loistavia. Vauh.
-Tuuli
Kiitos kiitos kiitos.
16.11.2003 KIITOS aivan mielettoman upeasta Feenix-illasta. Uskomatonta, siina tuli saavutettua varmasti joku korkeampi yhteys yhtyeen ja yleison valilla! Turkumagiaa
-Oona, Liisa, Tuuli ja Laura
Joko niin, tai sitten laitetaan se synastandi oikein pain ensi kerralla. Kiitokset!
12.11.2003 Greetings from Vienna, too! Just have your new album "ordered" by a friend of mine from Porvoo, Tommi! Thanks Tommi, thanks to you guys for creating such good music of course! And hey, come again to Vienna, I'm eager to see your next concert in Vienna's Flex (like last time - long ago! *vink* *vink*) Greetings
-mike loves koff
We're coming. And go Tommi!
12.11.2003 hei, jollakin muullakin on nakojaan taipumus tehda toita iltaisin... oikein on mukavaa aina valilla keskeyttaa tyot taalla paassa, kavaista netissa, ja loytaa ihan tuoreita juttuloita kras.com:sta! samalla voisin tietysti lahettaa pienet kiitokset tavastian keikasta. olihan se hieman mukavampi tapa rajayttaa tajuntansa kuin idolsin katselu... eikun vaan oikeesti, olitte upeita! taidatte todella nauttia lavalla-/yhdessaolosta nykyaan, se nakyy ja kuuluu kauas! hyvaa jatkoa, ma jatkan nyt toita. aa, ja jos haluatte kommentteja Melodramasta, niin sanoisin, jos osaisin englantia, etta AWESOME! mutta koska en oikein osaa, taytyy tyytya sanomaan et 'ihan kiva'.
-marian
Ainoa, mista voi/haluaa enaa nipistaa lisaa aikaa, niin nukkumisesta. Siina ehka selitys. Hmm.. englanniksi siis pidat levysta huomattavasti enemman. Kiitokset viestistasi sydanyossa. (klo 01:08)
11.11.2003 Hi i'm from Luxembourg and i like your e-bay "soundtrack" Star. good career
-klengenjerome
Thank you klengenjerome!
11.11.2003 Hei! Mietin vain etta tehdaanko still alivesta musavideo?
-Sima
Ensi viikolla kuvataan.
11.11.2003 Hi there! Before I came to Finland I swore not to fall in love, because it's always hard when you have to leave. But now it happened: I fell in love. With Finland, your people and The Crash's music. Shouting "Damn!" with a smile on my face.
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e_____|___(____C_____)\_HERE_/__//__/_/_____\___e
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The unfortunate thing with the larger iMacs is that because the screen sits on top of the box, rather than directly on the desk, with a screen as big as 20" I'd find myself looking upwards (at least with the two work desks in my house and the one at work). Ergonomically this is not a good thing.
Alternatively you pull the screen down as far as it will go, but then you need a lot of space behind it for the arm and the box.
That said, it does look rather nice, but I don't think I'd spend the extra cash over the 17" given the choice. I'd probably hold out for one of the lower-end G5's. At least this way the case can sit under my desk.
Can we hold out hope for a 20 inch power book?
These are still both great machines. I love my 17" iMac as a home machine, and a 20" screen is even more alluring.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
that powerbook would go very nice with the rumored 30" cinema display that should be out early next year - even though dell beat them to the 2.5 feet punch.
The currently Apple 20" flatscreen goes for $1299. You're paying $2199 for that attached to a 1.25GHz iMac... So in 3 years when the iMac is obsolete and the monitor is running fine, you can't attach that 20" flatscreen to anything. Hmm. Not good.
blog |
I am by no means a Mac person (because I like to play games :P), but this little machine looks really cool. The only thing that I think is better (maybe because I am a PC person) is the MachL 3.8 with cinimatic or Grand Canyon moniter.
Save Sam and Max!
What's next, the 23" HD Cimana iMac? This iscrazy but awesome
e to the pi i plus one equals zero
Well, G5s are truly here now - and they've got the flashy specs to boot.
My advice? - Grab a G5 as soon as you can - they're fast, strong, and reliable. Yet, they do run the MacOS - which is fine if you're a artsy kinda person.
I use my windows machine for gaming. & My linux box for serious computing/recovery. I'd definitely only suggest the G5 if you're not into windwos gaming at all - 'cause other than that - Macs have all the rest of the fun!
My office retired its old G3 Server, and I talked my boss into selling it to me, including the 17" CRT, keyboard, mouse, and Jaz drive, for $100.
I'm using it primarily to learn the intricacies of OS X 10.3, and I'm liking it so far.
But even with this new "toy" of mine (I've been a staunch Windows user for years and years, although I like Linux too), I'm still drooling over the G5s. Part of me thinks I should get one of the 1.8 dualies and call it a day.
The only bad thing is that when a person switches, you have to not only learn a new OS and how the machine works, but you have to learn what software replaces the stuff you're used to. As an example, I use HomeSite for my Web development. I could buy BBEdit, but I'd like something free...and finding something like this is one of the challenges.
But at the end of the day, it's all worth it. Knowing multiple platforms is always a good thing!
also noticed this for the first time linked to at the bottom of the apple's main page
G3/Mac OS X Settlement
Dated: September 2, 2003
Why Spend $2199 on a Propreitry hardware when I can get a Cheap $600 Linux box running Mandrake and a Cheap $300 19" Monitor. And to the Apple Zealots, Gimp 1.3.22 Does have CMYK support, so STFU about Photoshit.
Its got everything I need, and i can use the money I saved on the more important things in life.
Long live the G4.
there really is no b3 bomber?
.asp once more?
unprecedented evile takes it in the
which is not to say the double cheese mac will not rock the app(s)?
My ancient and massively (and expensively upgraded) beige G3 (G4), has finally given up the ghost - in a nasty and very slow way; turns out that there's something wrong with the logic board that causes it to drain the PRAM battery in the space of a couple of weeks - it won't recharge it. Hence, I'll lose settings, and occasionally not be able to boot. Which is okay, because booting takes a good solid 3 minutes.
So I bought a Dual 2ghz G5. With the last of my dotcom-bust stock. (401k notwithstanding).
What can I say that they haven't already said on a zillion review sites, and Ars?
I was not disappointed.
I was presented with the dilemma of where to put some of my old components (no room in this HUGE case for any regular IDE drives? no room in my tapped-out budget to buy some external FW800 cases.)
(and it's gonna cost me an arm and a leg to have a contracter come out here and put the wall back on my house.)
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
my friend told me get an apple, but i steered away from it due to the fact of always using a pc. so i spent $1200 on a toshiba laptop, he now has an ibook . it pisses me off cause i have played around with his ibook and it highly out ranks my pc, sigh. when the price drops some on the new 20" imac im buying one and either an ibook or powerbook. apple Rul3z, PC Dr00lez.
ALl that is being said is "Hey, they did this. Hey, they released that."
/. and they buy an article for good press. Slashdot is NOT an unbiased news source... everybody knows B&N pays for airtime here. Why not apple?
No. Apple sees bad press on
Its good to see that apple have finally made it back into the mainstream, even if their internal architecture is beginning to look like a PC what with PCI slots and all. Interestingly when I was in Rhodesia the other week, I noticed that almost all computers there are apples running yellow dog linux. Apparently this is because the government there has passed a law decreeing that all software allowed in the country must be 64 bit by 2005. Unbelievable!
All that glitters has a high refractive index.
Today we salute you, Mr. Goofy Looking PC Designer.
"Mr. Goofy Looking PC Designer!"
Taking that tripped out table lamp and turning it in as a new computer design, and getting your boss to actually believe it and sell it? Hey, that's just part of the job.
"You were just stoned."
But wait! Why do better than that, when you can just start putting tackier and tackier large displays on the front? Why waste time away from your bong (which now looks suspicously like a new computer), when you can keep up your sumpin' sumpin'?
"Wow that's some good weed!"
Real men of genius.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Where's the 30" Cinema Display? I'm still waiting on that rumor (:
This 20" iMac is interesting, but i wonder how long the arm will hold up. And as someone else has pointed out - after the Mac is obsolete you still have a very expensive monitor that can't be moved elsewhere.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
This is off-topic, which is why I am posting as AC, but I was just thinking about the story regarding controlling teenagers internet usage. I want to provide some links right now so that people can discover alternative "lifestyles" before it's too late.
gay
necro
scat (krap)
I must point out that this is not a troll because I provide an accurate description for each link.
Since you are apparently new to Macs, are you familiar with Versiontracker. Its a good place to find programs for the Mac, what the latest version is, and what other people think of them.
Get a fucking life asswipes. Apple has lost the battle. BSD owns all. Fuck off dorks.
Apple now offers its entire suite of professional applications optimized to leverage the performance advantages of the Power Mac G5. Mac-based hardware and software from Apple and our partners form the backbone of professional workflows at every level of video and audio production, so the industry moves with us. Keep up. Whatever your choice in tools and formats, there's room for them and for you on the Apple platform for professional digital production.
Apple - Software - Pro
My friend,
I still use a Mac SE30 as a print server and vintage program machine. I use a 20th Annivaersary Mac for financial/database work.
Se30 = almost 17 years old
TAM = 6 years old
If in 3 years this can access the internet, great, if it can photoshop, great, if it can print to USB printers, great, if it can be adapted to new technologies, great.
My SE30 can do most everything this new iMac can, just not in color and not as fast. It's hardly obsolete.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Too many comments along the lines of "That there is a big monitor to just throw away when the iMac is obsolete!"
People who buy iMacs don't want to upgrade them every year. They're home users who expect to buy a computer, and keep it until it breaks or some amazing reason comes out to get a new one. They upgrade only when new applications require it, which is why Apple focuses a lot on new features and software innovation to motivate people to upgrade.
Take a look on eBay at used Mac prices sometime, then rethink the "wasting a monitor" idea.
The twenty inch screen is nice, but would have also been nice if Apple would have added FireWire 800 to this revision. And 256 megs or RAM is a little bit low...
Ah, now the middle of the desktop is again clearly the best deal. I always buy from the middle of the line. The boost over the low end model is worth the price, but the difference between mid and high end is always a more severe premium.
Also, if you're going to buy the dual 1.8 GHz Mac, BUY IT NOW. You'll be happier this way. See, if the worst time to buy is just before a revision comes out, then you get further and further from that to the happiest point just after a revision comes out.
Start Running Better Polls
It was inevitable that the iMac would get an upgrade. I had no doubt at all.
Because I just bought a 17" iMac less than a month ago. Apple always upgrades boxes a month after I buy them.
However, I don't feel too bad about this one. It's $400 more, they didn't upgrade any other features other than the screen, and they didn't slash the price of the old model. Usually at least one of those latter two criteria apply to me.
The dually 1.8 GHz model is looking pretty sweet, though. The only difference (other than clock speed, of course) between that and the 2 GHz model is the video card, and changing to the Radeon 9600 is only a $50 BTO option. So you get nearly the same Mac for $500 less. I think the dually 1.8 G5 will sell quite briskly. This also speaks well to IBM's ability to get chips out of the factory and into systems. Hopefully the inevitable speedbump in January will really kick some booty.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Sure, you may want to hold out until the price drops, but what if it ends up like the Cube? An awsome machine that was only on the market for several months.
Save Sam and Max!
I just got my single 1.8GHz G5! Noooooo! Kahhhnnn!
I drank what? -- Socrates
Words right out of my mouth. I've posted to usenet asking if anyone's tried a hack yet, and some of the iMac deconstruction sites seem to suggest the wires are relatively easy to get to.
But if you could find a way to hack it, you're essentially getting an awfully cool monitor stand plus a Superdrive equipped G4 for $900. That's *much* easier to stomach.
Take apart at xlr8yourmac.com (look at "rainbow colored" wires)
Service manual
There was also a great Japanese site that showed the thing taken apart until the wires were dangling, but I always have the dangest time Googling in Japanese.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
". . .i can use the money I saved on the more important things in life."
Could you start with a spell check program? You don't have to live out the rest of your short life as an illiterate dumbass.
GIMP has CMYK support? Great. Have you actually used Photoshop? I didn't think so. STFU right back at you.
for me to
poop on.
iNetflix, to browse movies without signing in to Netflix. :) Very innovative stuff.
I'm going to be in the market for the big Cinema Display pretty soon, and the one thing I would love to see in the next model is an iMac style arm so it's easy to position anywhere I want it.
That seems like such an obvious idea I'm surprised Apple hasn't done it.
Anyone know why not?
D
"The Power Mac G5's built-in handles will come in handy the day you need to move all your stuff into that corner office you've always had your eye on."
Wankers for marketing droids then. No surprise, merely annoyance.
Imagine a Virginia Tech cluster of these Big iMacs.
Oh, and would you like files with that, sir?
I'm holding out for a couple rounds of price drops, but I think a G5 is definitely in my future.
Thanks for sharing, CowboyNeal.
Your comment was so interesting, so insightful, so informative, that it just HAD to be added to the article submission, rather than posted as a normal comment. I mean, normal comments can only be modded up to +5, but you went one better! EVERYBODY has to read YOUR comment!
Married an Ax Murderer"?
William! Move your head! Look at the size of that boy's head!
I'm not kidding, that's like an orange on a toothpick!
Well, that's a huge noggin! That's a virtual planetoid! Has its own weather system! Head! Move!
Move that melon of yours and get the paper if you can! Haulin' that gargantuan cranium about! I'm not kidding, that boy's head's like Sputnik! Spherical, but quick pointy in parts.
Well, that was off sides, wasn't it?
He'll be crying himself to sleep tonight on his *huge* pillow!
It now comes with new Netflix queue management software - at no extra charge!
I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I have recently upgraded from a Mac 8600/300 w/64 Megs of RAM to a New 20" iMac and Dual 1.8GHz PowerMac G5 to help me at my freelance gig where I copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. On the G5 I spent about 20 minutes trying to install Adobe Arcobat 6. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.
In addition, during this file transfer, my iPod will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Safari is straining to keep up as I type this.
I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Macs, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Mac that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the Macs' faster chip architecture. My 486/66 with 8MB of ram running MS Windows for Workgroups 3.11 is faster than this G5 dual 2GHz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Macintosh is a superior machine.
Mac addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Mac over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.
WHERE IS MY G5 POWERBOOK :(
the ibooks are on the g4 now, so bump up the powerbook line. oh and yes i know about the "heat" thing but come on they don't use any more than intel.
Dream(1.4GHz G5, 15inches HD screen, 8x super drive, upgradable pci-x graphics card...etc)
taco might work for you.
SubEthaEdit is cool in a different kind of way.
-t
Apple's Imacs are starting to remind me of Mighty Mouse or Johny Bravo - big torso...small legs
MY SECRET DIARIES
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Alright, Apple is just trying to rip people off now. IBM has a very similar Powerpc 970 configuration for $1699. :)
I can't find the link right now, but that's $1000 less. It's also in a blade form, so it's small and probably consumes less power. Oh and it's designed to run linux
Seems like a much better deal to me.
I chose to surf this one at -1. Masochism?
Holy crap, are there a bunch of freakin weirdos out there! Is it always like this?
Some of these people need a beat-down...
The configuration you speak about - if I read correctly - is single processor.
... It runs Linux. Fine for you, totally inapropriate for me and many more people.
And it's not designed to do what a Mac does without blinking. It doesn't run PSD, i-apps, FCP,
Ripping people off would be trying to offer all that hardware without any added value. Apple's added value is huge.
The whole point of buying a Mac instead of something else is you get OS X and really worthwile goodies.
When Jobs gave that cute speach about the digital hub I thought "Yeah, right. I just bought my Cube and now he wants me to buy another mac to do all this?"
I still work solely on my Cube.
But now I have over 5000 family pictures in iPhoto, the best I export to web on a regular basis so that friends and family in Europe can share our joy. iTunes? Wow! iMovie same here. And I start my day clicking my News bookmark in Safari which loads 15 tabs simultaneously of US-, Belgian and Peruvian news-sites. There's a lot more I enjoy daily, but you get the point.
We don't look for the same in Computers, so much is clear, but even knowing Apple takes a big bite out of my budget, I don't agree with your statement: they're not ripping me off, they're offering extreme value.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
they are sweet. my wife's system use to have tons of problems, like IE and Netscape acting weird. The system crashing when my son is playing with it. Plus it took up most of the space on her desk. Now, I don't have to tech support the iMac at all. Even my son can't break it. Windows on the otherhand, he's broken numerous times. Windows has gotten a lot better, but it's still no competition to Mac.
that powerbook would go very nice with the rumored 30" cinema display that should be out early next year - even though dell beat them to the 2.5 feet punch.
Its not clear that Dell beat Apple to the punch until Apple's display comes out. Dell's 30" display is a very low resolution LCD TV (1280 x 768) while Apple's current 23" display is 1920 x 1200. Although Apple is reticent on the spec (even the existance) of its 30" display, it seems unlikely that they will introduce a TV. But then, with Apple, you never know.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
The next iMac trick should be:
I rotate the screen 90 degrees CCW, and the display shifts to portrait mode.
If the screens get any bigger, they'll be iTipovers.
you're absolutely right - i didn't notice that the dell was a tv and not a monitor - i figured it'd be an enhanced version of their current 20" lcd monitor which runs at 1600x1200.
afaik, mac screens are all about consistant dpi so i imagine the 30" ones will run at something like 2504x1560 - sweet...
ALl that is being said is "Hey, they did this. Hey, they released that
You never see them posting about the latest Dell models do you?
b) ProTools is pro-sumer, anyways, not professional. When they figure out how to model VUs as logarhythmic rather than linear, maybe they'll join the ranks of professional software. Until then, I'll stick with MOTU's Digital Performer, Orban's Audicy, Fairlight's DREAM and Merlin, etc.
-T
I'm still using my Cube. It's fully supported and looks like it still has some years in it.
:-)
If they discontinue a model it's always a good moment to buy end of stocks.
And afterwards it keeps resell values up. I can still sell my machine for more than half it's initial value.
Pray they discontinue the mac you bought
I think, therefore I am...I think.
This is still free, and if you add the HTML Extensions (you'll need to Google for that, or perhaps on VersionTracker), that's plenty of text editor for doing Web stuff. The latest version is 6.1.2.
Alternatively, the newer version is now called TextWrangler, and is $49 (cheap!) and has many spiffy features you might like. The BareBones stuff is always great quality.
Congratulations on expanding your horizons; it really is the best of both worlds in many ways!
Does anybody know whether there are any revisions to the hardware, or if it's just the same box with another set of CPUs? I've been holding off on buying a G5, under the "never buy a first revision from Apple" rule.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
"Uh, yeah, I'll have an iMac combo please."
"Would you like to supersize that for $400?"
Just wait for Apple to release a Powerbook with that display. Then we'll have something to talk about.
He orders cable internet access.
The installer comes in, runs the cables, sets up the modem, then says, "Where's your tower?"
I've been struggling to find a fair comparison between G5 dual and single configurations. Whatever benchmark I find, its always a comparison of the 1.8 single vs the 2.0 dual or 1.8 single vs xeon dual, et cetera.
Apple hasn't done a sufficient job demonstrating that I need another processor, or at least, not the average consumer. Has any one seen any data? Perhaps comparing the old 1.8 vs the new 1.8?
Dang it... left out the xlr8yourmac url.
Here's the iMac take apart at xlr8
"That's what the preview button is for" etc.
It would need a base. (assuming you don't get a plate for mounting it directly to your desk or wall)
Apple wouldn't want this base to be useless, therefore it would have to serve some sort of purpose. They could put a FireWire/USB hub in it instead of the LCD itself, but at that point, why not throw a G4 and optical drive in too? Meh.. whatever.
I've long wished that someone would make the VGA port on a laptop bidirectional, so with the addition of a gender changer, you could turn the laptop's display panel into a monitor. This would be great for lots of things, not the least of which would be a portable, battery-powered high-res display that folds into its own case.
Anybody with an electronics background know why something like this wouldn't be fairly simple to implement? The only thing I can think of is that the display adapter chipset (Nvidia/ATI/etc) may be integrated with the electronics required to drive the LCD panel, making an external connection impossible.
Does anyone know when IBM will release their own line of Power4-powered PCs?
Has Linux been 64-bit native ported Power4 CPUs yet?
Is Apple the only vendor I can get one of these machines from?
http://www.talknerdy.org
I have a red sign on my door. It says "If this sign is blue, you're going too fast."
Is there a Doppler effect with light?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Steve Jobs came back onboard, the product line was way out of hand. I seem to remember there being like 40 products avaialable, no one was sure which product were appropriate for whom.
Jobs (and I am sure lots of other smart people behind the scenes) introduced the 4 quadrants, and Apple suddenly had the easiest decision making avaiable of any computer manufacterer. Student, or on a budget? Want a laptop - iBook. Want a desktop - iMac. Professional? Want a laptop - Powerbook. Want a desktop - G4/G5.
Sure, being so simple might for a 'tweener' to make a choice between upper level and lower level, but creating a choice specific for the 'tweener' crowd makes for a polluted, evil product line. (Along with fragmented R&D costs, higher production costs, etc...)
So my question is, where the hell does a 20" iMac fit in? Certainly at a base cost of $2199 it doesn't fill anyones needs well. Sure, 20" of flat panel goodness aimed at the consumer market is a bit groundbreaking and good outside the box thinking (which I think Apple under Jobs is again known for) but how are you going to market it? Why are you doing to pollute the sales to the "low end" desktop iMac line, with a $2199 and up computer? If I've got $2000 to spend on a computer, do I want a G4 or an iMac? That decision was once made for me by the simple matrix, now that option isn't so simple.
The continued existance of the eMac must really drive Jobs nuts. An actual CRT! Son-of-a-bitch!
www.jackasscritics.com
Why, on Slashdot, everything Apple releases is big news, but nothing else is? I mean, I don't see articles very often about the next Intel processor, or Dell's new 25" flat screen monitor, or Gateway's new PC line. But if Apple comes out with a purple defribulator - WOW! LET'S ALL TROT OUT OUR PREJUDICES! Whoohoo!
I use my Mac to watch avi's. Well, of course I convert them to mov's using DiVX Doctor first. And I have hours of fun downloading them using Limewire.
Making drawings in Photoshop and websites to house them are fun Mac activies too. Oh, and there's iMovie. In one sense, it sort of sucks, but it can be hours of fun.
OS X is also a friendly beginner's Unix. (Don't your kids like to do any programming?)
Anyway, back to the point, there are games for the Mac, but some of them are a bit old. Quake, Descent 1 and 2, and you can play ROMs on various emulators.
Having lived through the teeth-grinding experience of the "buy a new one or upgrade" decision with several PCs over the years, I decided that my first mac desktop (have had a Powerbook G4 for two years) would be the iMac 17".
...which is more than I can say for the P3 it replaced.
My reasoning was that while I have owned PCs and successfully "saved money" by upgrading a hard drive, ram, video card, etc. I was always longing for something that I couldn't "just add". Perhaps it was faster memory speed or a 32-bit processor but there was always something that made the "upgraded" computer never upgraded enough as a new one.
Living with an Apple laptop taught me that "Dang, a two year old laptop from Apple is still everybit as relevant as a brand new desktop". I attribute this feeling to the fact that Apple embraces new technology and makes it an integral part of their systems from the get-go. Cases in point:
* First to offer (or make standard) "super drives" for CD/DVD R/W
* Standard airport wireless antenas built into every laptop
* iEEE on every device (now Firewire 800 standard across the product line)
* Lots of USB 2.0 ports
* Removal of the 3.5" years before Dell stopped making people pay extra (in $ , case space, and electricity)
So I found the iMac to be a great system that would last many years (actually a good value when depreciated over 5, not 3 years - that's 66% longer useful life). And the system is so compact because there isn't a huge case, it can sit in a closet, or by the TV as some network device drone or whatever I may want it to be in 2009...
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
The emac will take quite a beating especially if your kids like to touch the screen as it is the only CRT based mac there is.
You can save your LRT screen from the kids by adhering a clear sheet of plexiglass using double-stick foam tape to the "frame." Well, that's what we did. It works great. Kids touch the plexiglass and you can just clean it off. The only disadvantage is that it renders the mic useless.
If you haven't figured it out pissed means drunk to non-Yanks.
My all-time favorite play on English variations is when a guy named Randy Bender won some user award from Novell. The Reg had a field day with it.
Thanks for the chuckle, Alan!
they have not added that yet, that would be another $130 next year - the real innovation ;-)
The iMac flatscreen and the 20" studio display are hardly similar.
Look at the viewing angle. as soon as you go off 20 degrees on the iMac everything starts to go gradient, like a typical laptop monitor.
The studio display on the other hand has solid colour at 170 degrees of viewability. That's why it's called the 'studio' monitor. It's made for accuracy in production.
They are extremely different hardware, and the studio display is far superior.
__
Thou hast besquirted me, O leotarded one.
I've tried helping a few friends pick out the best laptop and it's just getting to hard to pick between the 100 new quadrants. Gimme my 4 quadrants back! ;)
Hey, at least we're not back at the point with identical Performas having different model numbers because of differing preloaded software packages. That was a nightmare.
--
dman123 forever!
Filtering out the -1s and 0s since 1999.
Or you could sign up for the student ADC program for $99, and then buy the dual 2Ghz setup for $2399.
Same price, better machine.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
No problem here and all the Mac related magazines are choke full of games now. I just wish some of these high games would allow me to run it in a window so I would have access to the rest of my computer if need be.
I run anywhere from 4-5 apps simutaneously and hate having to quit if I hear something on EyeTV or need to change to another playlist in iTunes.
It's $129 a year (plus only $29 for shipping, but that doesn't count), you anti-Apple zealot. Stop exaggerating!!! ;)
We DO know... Listen to the analysts conference call. Steve states clearly he doesn't think there is going to be a merge between the TV and the Home PC. Why?
When you want the superbowl with your friends you want to watching it on a 55" screen a few feet back. When you want to email mom, you want to sit a few inches from the screen. These two uses are physically incompatible.
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Apple laptops are effectively unusable for unix users.
I am a long-time Unix user. That means I need to have the Ctrl key to the left of the A key. This is a genuine need, not merely a want; it is based upon ergonomics. The Ctrl key is heavily used in unix, and it must be easily accessable. It cannot be off in the lower left corner of the keyboard where it is difficult to get at, and where it distorts the position of your left hand such that you can't easily type other keys while holding the Ctrl key down.
Apple desktop keyboards are now all USB. They are all OK. The CapsLock key can be re-mapped into a Ctrl key.
Unfortunately, even in this modern age, all Apple laptops have built-in ADB keyboards. The ADB keyboard is broken-by-design. It is, in general, not possible to remap the CapsLock key into a Ctrl key.
There are some exceptions, but they are horrible kludges. They are horrible kludges because the original design of the ADB keyboard was a horrible kludge. The correct solution would be for Apple to re-design their laptop motherboards to use built-in USB keyboards. This hasn't happened yet. If you run Linux, use Debian's solution. For Mac OS X users, uControl works. There are no solutions (that I know of) for either NetBSD or OpenBSD. Please note once again that the "solutions" above are in fact kludges, because of the original bad design of the ADB keyboard.
Apple provides a technical note on how to remap the keyboard, but provides no solution to the hardware problems caused by the design of the ADB keyboard. This tech note helps foreign language users, but does nothing for the CapsLock/Ctrl problem.
Apple is (currently) ignoring Unix users! This is not merely speculation on my part. In an on-going email exchange I am having with an Apple employee (whom I won't name) in their marketing department, the Apple marketing person directly stated to me that Apple was catering to their historic Mac customers, and is purposely ignoring the Unix market. He also claimed that Apple would soon start paying more attention to the Unix market. I won't hold my breath. Apple has been ignoring Unix users for more than 13 years. I expect that trend to continue. (Also note that my Apple contact indicated that Macs would never ship with a 3-button mouse, even though Apple intended to port almost all X-window software and deliver it either on a CD/DVD or installed directly on each Mac's hard drive. How Unix friendly is a 1-button mouse with X programs that often require 3 buttons?)
Apple has now lost two opportunities to sell me hardware. I really wanted an Apple laptop for their superior battery life, and for the PowerPC with Altivec CPU. (The Altivec is vastly superior to the x86 line for DSP.) Because I can't live with the broken-by-design built-in ADB keyboard in all Apple laptops, Sony and IBM sold me laptops instead. If Apple fixes this problem, they will sell me a PowerBook next year; if they don't, I'll still be running OpenBSD on x86 hardware, and wishing I could use a Mac.
I don't remember where I read this but Apple is moving the iMac into a space between the ultra-cheap eMac and the expensive PowerMac. There's a clear difference between the iMac and the PowerMac. People are obviously willing to pay more for an iMac with a big screen. I remember when the LCD iMac first came out and I swore I'd never buy one since it still had that crappy 1024x768 resolution. The 17" or 20" models would be ok for me except for the ripoff price. I care more about my CPU than my screen. For some that's not the case.
Some people want the cheapest computer they can get. Of course, I'd like it if Apple would provide a cheap, upgradeable model without a builtin monitor but that would lose money for Apple.
Link
Since when is a GeForce FX 5200 considered blazing fast?
Moo!
If Apple wishes to be a more responsible manufacturer, it should offer a means to reclaim that gorgeous 20" screen at the end of the iMac's useful life (maybe shorter than the 3-4 years you generously give it). All this would require is the selling of a headless iMac pod, upgrades to be performed at the Genius Bars.
unless you're working in a dark room, true black isn't necessary, only a good dark black. If you're worried about color matching to print you're not working in a poorly lit room anyway.
You have a point on price, but color matching is pretty much spot os with a good LCD nowadays.
-theed
that macs are old and slow, and can't run the latest games.
I don't really use my old "fat mac" any more, but the SE 30 has some games that don't run anywhere else, so it's turned on occasionally. The Centris 610 works just fine for my 10 year old to read her email, draw with appleworks, and write school papers. Plus we can still find some old games in the $5 bin for it. The Beige G3 still plays DVDs just fine and works great as a music server since I have never liked iTunes as well as SoundJamMP (developed by the same team before they did iTunes for Apple). My G4 AiBook is my main computer now, but I don't think it will be dumped when I finally get a G5. My other child loves her G3 "flower power" iMac and will take it to college with her, my mom loves her G3 iMac, and my wife hated computers until I bought her a 15" G4 iMac last year. Will I get rid of any of those? No Way. They all work fine, and will continue to do their job for years and years. In the same timeframe however, I've been through about 7 different DOS and Windoze boxes, and have tossed them out with no regrets as the next one came along.
I completely enjoy using my 333 iMac with 10.2.8, and I am upgrading to Panther @ Christmas. It has been a pleasure using the Mail and Address app - I've enjoyed dropping MS Outlook on my XP pro box. If people would take a good look at what this 20" iMac provides (unix stability, awesome digital creation apps like iMovie, iPhoto being the easiest to import photos from any camera, etc..) they would see that Apple is truly the leader of innovation within the computer desktop field. Thank you Apple for raising the bar once again! I will be upgrading to another Mac soon!
I will note that there are several errors in this article. Moshe writes" Under the hood, Panther introduced other important features like an update to FreeBSD 4.8 (OS X is based on FreeBSD, but the previous release used FreeBSD 3.2) ". Which is wrong on both counts. Panther (10.3) is synced with FreeBSD 5.0 and Jaguar (10.2) is synced with FreeBSD 4.4 (PDF). Aside from minor typos "Upon reboot, staring MS Word for the first time takes 6 seconds" (BYTE editors please make note).
The one problem I had with this article was the description of the noise generated by the dual-CPU G5. Moshe wrote "The noise the dual G5 makes is comparable to a hair dryer, and it can be heard from any room of my house". I had a 1.8 GHz G5 delivered to my office by our university's Apple representative for a few days to evaluate the machine. One of the features I was amazed by was how quiet the G5 was. In order to hear the G5 operate in my office, I had to turn off the following: SGI O2, the dual-CPU PIII 1GHz SGI 320, the G4 PowerMac + all the monitors including the 21" Intergraph behemoth monitor. The central air-conditioning into my office was still louder than my G5! Then I had to move my ear closer to the G5 casing to hear the fans operate with all other equipment turned off (only one of our professor's G4 Cube is quieter than the G5 loaner I got from Apple). Later that week I wrote to my Apple rep. "Those multiple fans are deathly quiet".
Here are some other dual-CPU G5 reviews on the G5:
Mac Addict review "GOOD NEWS: Fastest Mac ever. Exceptionally quiet. Easy, no-tools-required maintenance"
Twincities.com review "Indeed, removing one of G5's slab-like anodized-aluminum sides revealed nine fans that pump air along a network of inner wind tunnels. Switching on the Power Mac, I expected it to make a terrible racket despite Apple's assurances to the contrary. But, sure enough, the machine proved amazingly quiet for "the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer.""
So, when Moshe describes his dual-CPU G5 to be loud as a hairdryer I'm a little skeptical. Giving Moshe the benefit of the doubt of having a faster ATI Radeon 9800 Pro graphics card, he might have received a G5 with defective thermal sensors or something. Has anyone out there experienced their dual-CPU G5 with a ATI 9800 sound like a hairdryer???
did anyone else notice that they also bumped the RAM up to DDR333 across the line, they're all capable of bluetooth and airport extreme (previous the low end was not) and they updated the graphics cards, opting for a 64MB card in the 20" display? Plus a min. of 80GB of HD space?
...
And kept the same price point?
And day by day the Mac becomes an even BETTER value for the money
[...]my best friend becoming a Mac user and then coming out of the closet.[...]
My girlfriend is quickly becoming a Mac-o-holic...
The fans are software controlled, if you start it up without OS X, say with Linux, or in FireWire Target mode, the fans default to full speed.
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
Take a look at SubEthaEdit or even try the apple Xcode tools.
http://www.orbeon.com/oxf/oxfmark
The benchmark is Java-based. So in addition to the performance of the CPU, the efficiency of the Java virtual machine is pretty important.
Alex
"The Dual 1.8GHz G5 configuration was rumored back in July to shift demand away from the popular 2.0GHz PowerPC G5s." Aside from a dual 3 Ghz G5, How could you possibly hope to divert attention away from a dual 2.0 Ghz G5? It's like diverting a lava flow!
10 Bits= $.25
100 Bits= $.50
110 Bits= $.75
1000 Bits= 1 byte
Damnit, when am I supposed to buy my parents a mac when they keep coming out with this stuff...
You write:
Aside from minor typos "Upon reboot, staring MS Word for the first time takes 6 seconds"
maybe the author meant that he/she can't *bear* the sight of MS Word for more than six seconds!
-- I speak only for myself
The iMac is a 'clever' design, there is no doubt about that, but unfortunately the market is cleverer. The market is patiently awaiting a computer as powerful as a highend Imac/lowend G5 that provides the mobility of a powerbook but has the ruggedness of an eMac, think something like a chunky powerbook. Its not to hard to think how many societal situations would love to have an iMac, only that its design/function is to delicate for them. Its more a matter of focusing on peoples natural clumsiness/accidents/idiot behaviours etc. Perhaps its a retro step to think 'design is function' but as much as we like to believe that our sophistication parrallels our objects of desire, we are still animals that have chaotic principles of behaviour built into our genes.
Really?
I remember the iMac dropping the floppy drive in 1998, three years before Dell made it an OPTION rather than removing it all together, where it still sits.
I also remember the iMac in 1998 having exactly ZERO legacy peripheral connectivity. Dell STILL is using PS/2, parallel, and serial COM ports, and on models that they aren't, guess what - there is still an ISA bridge in the chipset from Intel, and the IDE controller is sitting on it.
Even earlier than that, with the Power Macintosh 7200 / 8200 / 9200 series where they eradicated all internal connectivity in favor of PCI. In 1997. Dell didn't do this until late in the Pentium III models where they finally got rid of that last ISA slot that was on the bottom of the board.
The first two companies to standardize on Intel's PCI architecture were not using Intel processors. They were Apple (PowerPC) and DEC (Alpha). This is widely known.
Oh, and I guess that Apple didn't ship the 20th Anniversary Mac with an LCD screen in 1997 did they?
Care to try again?
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Yeah, must be a reference to when it boots. Then the fans go full blast (at any time the system software is not running it defaults to safety/high-speed mode, I think). I haven't read the article, but this must have been what they meant & if they left it out (the qualifier of when it gets noisy) they were just being dishonest. In normal operation, the G5 is amazingly quiet. It is easily quieter than any other desktop computer I have been next to.