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Lion And Lamb Project Lambasts Videogames
Thanks to Gamasutra for pointing to the Lion And Lamb Project's new listing of their 'Dirty Dozen for 2004', as the organization, which "works to reduce the marketing of violent toys, games and entertainment to children", singles out Rockstar's Manhunt for its 'Pushing The Envelope' pick, despite the Mature rating, mentioning that "69 percent of underage teenagers were able to buy M-rated games at retail stores." Interestingly, Sony's Teen-rated Jak II is also criticized under the heading 'Deceptive Branding: The Sequel That Isn't', with the comments: "The original game in this series - Jak and Daxter - was rated E for Everyone... parents who feel comfortable with this 'brand' are in for a rude surprise if they purchase the sequel for their young children." However, the project's Top 20 non-violent toys also include videogames, including Dance Dance Revolution and Zoo Tycoon.
69 percent of underage teenagers were able to buy M-rated games at retail stores
So then attack the retail stores who are not following the guidelines, not the game companies that label the games correctly.
If kids were renting R-rated movies, would this group lambast Hollywood or the company renting them to kids?
(Sadly, the answer is, probably Hollywood.)
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
Thanks for the tips!
Cloud City Digital: DVD Production at its cheapest/finest
What are they doing to those poor animals? Please consider the animals.
First, Rockstar games clearly says it's M for Mature.
Its up to the stores AND THE PARENTS to make sure that kids not old enough to partake in this entertainment are not. The game companies should no have to censor themselves anymore than CLEARLY labelling the box and the package. This is a problem not with Rockstar, but with society.
Second, from that list of "approved games" can we say MASSIVELY BORING? Who the hell EVERY enjoyed playing Math Attack over Missle Command?
I now return your to your regurlarly scheduled lives.
-raph
I RTFAd and it said something about Matrix: The Powerade Drink, Matrix: The MTV Special, ... Matrix: The Lunchbox, and Matrix: The Flamethrower!! ;)
(OK, Wachowskis, don't you have enough green yet?)
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
The group seems to be yet another in favor of limiting tradtional boys' play in favor of girls' play.
/.
But they do serve a reasonable service. Many of the games and toys cited probably are inappropriate for young children. But... See, that's what the 'T' and 'M' ratings are for. OTOH, they clearly understand that ratings systems are absurd. They recommend 'Whale Rider', a film that received a PG13. L&L have chosen to mirror the thoughts of myriad film reviewers: this is a film that many young adults and children should be seeing.
FWIW, they spend much more time blasting action figures than video games, but I suppose the video game angle provides a better hook for
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
... when I hear the term 'non-violent', the word sterile pops into my mind as a synonym?
"Derp de derp."
that some of the gamers-turned-psychotics blow these fuckers away.
But seriously, the anti-video game people are guilty of several types of non causa pro causa .
I found this interesting while I was working on a research project for school. According to the Interactive Digital Software Association, only 3.1% of those who buy computer games are under 18 years old, or 8.4% for video games. Most parents - 65% - think that these games are a positive part of their children's lives. And the most stunning stat is 96% of parents sometimes pay attention to the content of their child's games. These stats come from a pdf hosted by the Entertainment Software Association, but there is probably a similar version of the IDSA's site.
The situtation sounds generally positive to me, despite how many "kids" can supposedly buy violent games.
Their main gripes appear to be the cross-age marketing of R and PG-13 movies with toys and games intended for younger ages and with descriptions of toy and game violent action as goals, fun, or otherwise the point of playing with them.
I needn't wonder how they'd feel about my Alien Queen diorama which includes, "Trapped human with chest-burster play action".
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
of course any list like this seems silly, but the listing of JakII as not being in line with the first is a good point. Sure the blame is on the doofus who buys an inappropriate game for his kid, but assuming II is a continuation of I is an easy thing to do.
I think the main targets of these lists is "grandma" who is looking for a gift for the kiddies.
Of course, as a youth I would have much more preferred a "toys/games that aren't totally lame or out of date" list
Take this anti-violence message far enough and what to you get? Tibet, forever under the iron boot of the Chicoms without so much as a whimper in protest.
Lion and the Lamb? Just remember that outside of Bible metaphor (and yeah - it's metaphor), the lion eats the lamb.
They consider Hulk toys too violent? I thought Hulk was supposed to be filled with A-team style "nobody actually gets hurt" violence with a "control your temper" moral lesson. These people are either insane or too lazy to actually investigate what they are complaining about.
Bill Gates
Darl McBride
George Bush
Colin Powell
With special guest appearances by:
Generic Islamic Militant
All American Hero (not only star quarterback but also a top lawyer)
Jesus, if hes not too busy, failing that they'll prob settle for Bush Snr.
Having said that, video games today are a virtual "pornography of violence"; characters are maimed or killed without thought to consequences in most titles, which are ultimately marketed to children when they share space among children's titles in gaming magazines or on review websites. It's highly unlikely even grown adults leave a session of intense gaming (or violent movies for that matter) without some imprint, as these games are designed to trigger and reward unhealthy responses.
I've got a certain amount of room for games like BF1942 in my free time, but I also enjoy games like Zork or Myst that are underrepresented in today's lineup on the shelves. Maybe they've got a point?
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
They seem to be confusing the minimum age requirements with recommended requirements, for example, from there 2002 list, Burnout 2, which they list as being marketed at children aged 6 and up. Hell, what kind of uber 6 year olds are these weirdos breeeding? If they have the reaction and motor skills to play high speed racing games at 6 then they should be on some special air force training program!
And whats with the crap about enter the matrix? Theres no content in there thats too graphic for teenagers. Just because its based on an R rated, whatever the hell that means, im assuming its about equivalent to 15 over here in the UK. Hell, Super mario bros got a PG rating, why arent they getting all anal over Super Mario Sunshine, Luigis Mansion, or Double dash being sold to ten year olds? Because theyre talking crap, thats why.
I realise ill be preaching to the choir here somewhat, but people like this really get on my tits.
Be sure to put these ninny soccer moms on the mailing lists of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. Perhaps reminding that no matter how overprotective they are, they're going to register for Selective Service unless they go live on a Commune. So be sure and mail them CD's w/ America's Army for the ultimate insult.
The kids who played Jak I since became teens who are more interested in what II has to offer!
;-), but it was mentioned that the first one is rated for younger kids while the second one rated suitable for teens.
Not that I have a slightest clue about the game in question
Paul B.
Anyone else amused at their pick of DDR? Yes, it's nonviolent, but they apparently weren't singing along to all the songs like I do when playing, otherwise they would have noticed how many of the lyrics have to do with sex... Or maybe they'd just rather have their kids doing that than being violent ^^;
I love how every group of twelve soccer moms standing on the sidelines biddying gets to release these lists and people actually give a damn about them and their little world for about two minutes.
With that said, any parent who lets a six- or seven-year-old play Manhunt should be shot. They exist. I saw one buy it for them while I bought SSX 3 yesterday.
--Moo.
I don't agree with everything they write, but overall it is a good list. One of their central complaints is toys marketed at younger children, but based off of movies or tv shows marketed at a much older audience. Unlike other groups, the Lion and Lamb Project seems to be more geared towards educateing parents about the dangers of violent toys and games, then legislating "violent" toys. A common complaint seen on /. is against parents who allow their children to play violent games rated M for mature. Here is have a group that agrees, and provideds parents with education regarding those issues.
That said this group may be involved in other activities that I do not agree with. I only took a cursory look at their web pages. But this is not yet another group who hates video game violence. Rather this is a group that hates violence marketed at children. A subtle but important distinction.
The Jak 2 thing is a fair comment. Much of it is really quite horrible - the intro movie, for instance. I'd feel really bad if I'd got this for a kid's christmas present. It's bloody hard too.
It's a good game, but I was really disappointed to not be getting a Jak and Daxter sequel.
Dave
I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
Talk about a violent way to die, right? Crucifiction? But this is something many children are taught about every Sunday - In some places every day. Not to mention all the other violent bible stories. David slew Goliath, etc. I guess it's okay to approach violent subjects though, so long as it's 'faithfully wholesome' and not entertainment. I'd like to have a long-term look at these 'long-term studies' they claim to cite. Who conducted the study, who funded it, what type of testing was done, all that. I smell bantha fodder. Not trying to bash religion, of course, but honestly, if you feel that strongly about your kids being exposed to violence, lock them in their rooms and allow no media. That includes newspapers and any televised news broadcast.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Of course, then they wouldn't get their name in the paper every Christmas, so probably it wouldn't be their ideal solution after all.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
...ever been in the store to buy a game and veiwed a child's parents buying their child a 'T' or 'M' rated game?
=^_^= P|-|33R |\/|3
The same characters get pulled through a time warp into the future. They end up in a world kinda like ours--armed police, government use of torture, unelected leaders, grossly obese sleazy businessmen, that kind of thing.
Personally, I think it's not so much the content of Jak II that's the problem, it's the incredibly high difficulty level...
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
The real debate here is between good art and bad art. GTA3 didn't become popular based on its violence alone. It became popular because of it's quality. Kids and adults alike often react numbly to violence, not because they've been desensitized over the years, but because the violence is probably pretty bad art. Bad art does not stir or provoke. Violence in bad art (see T.V.) does not get the same reaction from people as violence in good art. I don't worry about kids being "desensitized", because it's entirely possible that the crap tv they're watching isn't riveting or engaging except in that vague "trashy" way. Put these same kids in front of a really disturbing movie with engaging characters and gripping violence and you'll get a reaction. Kids need to be exposed to good art. I think it's a parents job to expose more children to quality art appropriate for their age groups.
Ninja turtles. Professional wrestling. Transformers. These are the same toys I had when I was a kid. I thought that I would never have heard of whatever kids were playing with now, but I know those. That's so cool.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
have them actually dancing around like a fag.
I'd like to inform you that the so-called "fags" who can pass "Max 300" on heavy have very well-developed leg muscles and could probably beat you up.
Still, the DDR concept can be done without the dancing: try Parappa the Rapper, UmJammer Lammy, Beatmania, or Pop'n Music.