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64-bit Laptops Reviewed

prostoalex writes "ExtremeTech reviews current mega-notebooks, which are powerful enough to become a desktop replacement. Among the laptops reviewed there's one with 64-bit AMD Mobile Athlon 64 3200+ (2.0GHz clock rate) - the Voodoo Envy m:855."

222 comments

  1. Somewhere in Cupertino by Jesrad · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... Steve Jobs is choking and fuming because he wasn't able to fit G5s in PowerBooks and sell the "first 64-bit laptops".

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
    1. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Duncan3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yea, only missed that one by about a decade :)

      64bit isn't new, affordable 64bit is.

      --
      - Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
    2. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by hoytt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The PowerBooks are 1 inch thick. These 'laptops' are 1.7 to 2 inches thick. That's not really comparable.

    3. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Informative

      First 64bit laptop? What about the "Tadpole Alphabook" - i believe that was the first 64bit laptop, but i could be wrong... i believe it came out in the first half of the 90`s and use a 166 or 233mhz 64bit Alpha EV4 processor.
      Also tadpole produced HP PA-RISC laptops (precisionbook) and ultrasparc laptops, altho they came much later, they still predate the G5 by a few years.
      On a side note, if anyone has a working alphabook for sale.. get in touch with me!

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Kenja · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So when I picked up a dual CPU Sun Ultra 60 last year for 50$ that wasn't affordable? How about the 25$ SGI Indy I got three years ago?

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    5. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by jon787 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You lucky son of a bitch!

      I'm still trying for a simple Ultra10

      --
      X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).
    6. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Kenja · · Score: 2, Funny

      Fear the Ultra5/10. IDE is EVIL on a Sparc system.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    7. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A laptop's a laptop's a laptop.

    8. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that's what you value. If that's not what *I* value, then maybe they are, eh?

    9. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      yeah, and a TV is a TV is a TV

      a sterio is a sterio is a sterio

      a chair is a chair is a chair

      carpeting is carpeting is carpeting

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    10. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      so if what you value can only fit in a suitcase, you would consider that a superior product?

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    11. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by G-funk · · Score: 4, Funny

      You sir, have quite a lap.

      --
      Send lawyers, guns, and money!
    12. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      No, he isn't, because he knows he'll be selling the first 64 bit personal laptop.

    13. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Insightful MY ARSE.

      A 17 inch powerbook is ALMOST 2 inches thick, and weights more

      than both of these review notebooks.

      Why can't you Apple whores learn to RTFA.

    14. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone should arrest you for humorcide.

    15. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by vlad30 · · Score: 1

      No he will sell the 1st 64bit laptops that don't fry your reproctive system.... scratch that I'm on slashdot

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    16. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are already sparc books. Have been for years.

    17. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's better to care a suitcase around than something that looks like a portable toliet seat.

    18. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by rsidd · · Score: 1
      So when I picked up a dual CPU Sun Ultra 60 last year for 50$ that wasn't affordable? How about the 25$ SGI Indy I got three years ago?

      What, laptops?

    19. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by illumin8 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ... Steve Jobs is choking and fuming because he wasn't able to fit G5s in PowerBooks and sell the "first 64-bit laptops".
      Somewhere in Cupertino Steve Jobs is cackling with glee because he is smart enough to realize that most people won't pay $3800 for a 10 pound leaf blower that only gets 2 hours of battery life. Really, what is the market for these things? Are they only selling them to foolish gamers that want to lug them to a LAN party and plug them in to a wall outlet?

      Apple doesn't release half-assed products just because they can. Believe me, they could have stuffed a G5 into a laptop this summer if they wanted to, and it would have about the same weight, dimensions, and battery life that one of these suckers does. But would anyone buy it?

      Me, I'll stick with my sleek 15" Powerbook that gets 4 hours of actual battery life, is only 1" thick, and has the same graphics chipset (ATI Radeon 9600) allowing me to play almost all of the same games (UT2003 anyone? Halo on Dec. 11th anyone?) I'd much rather show up at a LAN party with it and not have to visit the chiropractor the next day because I threw my back out trying to lift that behemoth off the table.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
    20. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 17" PowerBook is 1" thick, RTFM...

    21. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by nettdata · · Score: 1

      They ARE pretty cool.

      You can see a review of one of their latest laptops here,

      --



      $0.02 (CDN)
    22. Re:Somewhere in Cupertino by op00to · · Score: 1

      Not really. I haven't had any issues with any of the IDE disks in the Ultra 5/10's at work.

  2. SparcLE by mlk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd really like one of these.

    --
    Wow, I should not post when knackered.
    1. Re:SparcLE by Qwell · · Score: 3, Informative

      Very nice. Sun 64 bit Laptops...I'd buy one too, however, look at the rest of the specs. 500mhz and 256mb RAM hardly makes it worth $3,000.

      --
      As of 10/06/03, I hate COBOL developers.
    2. Re:SparcLE by nomadlogic · · Score: 2, Informative

      the real selling point (at least for the spooks amoung us )is the magnesium case....

      --
      God is real, unless declared integer.
    3. Re:SparcLE by Qwell · · Score: 1, Troll
      Jesus crap, I didn't realize how right I was.

      CPU: 650MHz UltraSPARC IIi processor with 512KB Level 2 Cache

      Display: 15 inch SXGA+ (1400 x 1050) TFT Display

      Storage: 60GB UltraATA Disk Drive

      Memory: 1GB Memory PC133 SODIMM Memory with ECC (Optimum Memory)

      Drive: Integrated 24X/8X CD-RW / 8X DVD Combo Drive (8X/8X/24X)

      O.S.: Solaris 9 Operating Environment & Star Office 6.0

      Warranty: 2 Year Gold Factory Warranty

      Shipping Insurance: Federal Express Insuranced Shipping Ground Delivery +$199.95 Handling

      Total Price = $8129.75

      --
      As of 10/06/03, I hate COBOL developers.
    4. Re:SparcLE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cheapes SparcLEs are running about 2,500 for 600Mhz.

      Now Tadpole makes TALIN laptops, it's P4 with Linux and StarOffice inside.

      The cost is with holiday discounts about 1,500$.

    5. Re:SparcLE by addaon · · Score: 1

      Um, doesn't every decent laptop have a magnesium (alloy) case these days, or close enough? I mean, I know sony's moved away from there towards carbon fiber (weight over heat conduction), and apple's in aluminum mode (better heat conduction, needs to be thicker)... but other than that, who uses anything else? Dell?

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    6. Re:SparcLE by Cyno · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but I've used their desktop systems. These wouldn't be any faster than my 400 Mhz PII.

      Maybe if they put Linux on it and sold it for $500..

    7. Re:SparcLE by edrugtrader · · Score: 1

      marketing hype: i give you proof of your success.

      --
      MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
    8. Re:SparcLE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CPU_________650MHz UltraSPARC IIi processor with 512KB Level 2 Cache
      Display_____15 inch SXGA+ (1400 x 1050) TFT Display
      Storage_____80GB UltraATA Disk Drive
      Memory______2GB Memory PC133 SODIMM Memory with ECC
      Drive_______Integrated 24X/8X CD-RW / 8X DVD Combo Drive (8X/8X/24X)
      O.S.________Solaris 9 Operating Environment & Star Office 6.0
      Warranty____3 Year Gold Factory Warranty
      Shipping Insurance Federal Express Insuranced
      Shipping____Ground Delivery +$199.95 Handling
      Total Price = $10985.75

      Now where's my Itanium2 sub-notebook?

    9. Re:SparcLE by 10bt · · Score: 1

      I'd really like one of these.

      yeah but can it play doom III at 60 fps? ;)

    10. Re:SparcLE by illumin8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but you do realize you're getting a system that runs real sparc based Solaris (not Solaris for Intel), has just as much horsepower as a SunFire V120 1U server, and has ECC memory and data paths.

      I won't hold it against you. Most people that compare Sparc systems to Intel systems don't realize how much having ECC across all data paths can affect the price of a system. Basically, every bus that was 64-bits wide has to be 80-bits wide to get your error correction bits in there.

      As an exercise for the EE majors, calculate the extra cost in R&D time + manufacturing for this high level of reliability.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
    11. Re:SparcLE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're comparing that CPU speed to an x86 processor... that thing would tear through floating point faster than your 1.2ghz x86.

    12. Re:SparcLE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. They don't.

    13. Re:SparcLE by sharkdba · · Score: 1

      They're pretty expensive. So who's their typical clientele?

      --
      The purpose of life is to find the purpose of life.
  3. First Thought by dirkdidit · · Score: 4, Funny

    I saw the name Voodoo and about shit myself thinking that 3DFX had come back from the dead. Thankfully, it's just another company using the Voodoo name for their product. However seeing 3DFX come back only to enter into the laptop market, or computer market for that matter, would be humorous. One CPU for adding, one CPU for subtracting.

    1. Re:First Thought by BWJones · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I saw the name Voodoo and about shit myself thinking that 3DFX had come back from the dead.

      Speaking of 3Dfx, check out this auction on eBay for some truly rare hardware. (disclaimer: I have nothing to do with this auction).

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    2. Re:First Thought by ziggy_zero · · Score: 1

      I heard some guy found one of these in a garbage can with a "defective" sticker on it. It worked just fine....although I don't think he could get the right drivers for it...

      --
      I belong to the ______ generation.
    3. Re:First Thought by mcpkaaos · · Score: 1

      seeing 3DFX come back only to enter into the laptop market

      The problem with that is that you'd have to buy two laptops and tie them together to get any real performance.

      --
      It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
    4. Re:First Thought by _Spirit · · Score: 1

      Since we're going offtopic anyway, when you read the ad on eBay:

      > Software drivers for any O/S.

      Yeah right, this increases their credibility enormously.

      --

      beauty is only a light switch away

  4. desktop replacements? by intermodal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hate to tell them this, but even my Pentium II 433 laptop is plenty powerful to replace a desktop. The only difference between any laptop and any normal desktop is form factor.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    1. Re:desktop replacements? by wankledot · · Score: 2, Informative

      And the hard drive. 2.5" hard drives are miserably slow. That's one of the big factors in the laptop machines I've owned, especially for disk-intensive apps.

      --
      My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
    2. Re:desktop replacements? by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      even my Pentium II 433 laptop is plenty powerful to replace a desktop

      Well, that depends on what you're using your machine for, doesn't it? I'd hate to try to play any modern (3d) game on a P2 (or a laptop, really...), or do any serious number crunching, develop in Java or .NET, etc - basically, 90% of the stuff I do for fun. Email and web surfing, sure - almost everything else I want to do with a PC, forget it.

      YMMV of course, but me, I'll take all the power you can throw at me and still complain that it's not fast enough.

    3. Re:desktop replacements? by intermodal · · Score: 1

      it's all semantics. Most people use a desktop to surf the internet and write school papers. A gaming box or a development workstation are other subjects. for mom and pop's computer that runs "the internet" and quicken, any laptop will do. you're talking specialized boxes that us geeks take for granted.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    4. Re:desktop replacements? by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      They are making 7,200 RPM 2.5" hard drives now. Maximum PC just reviewed on in their Decemeber issue and they said it preforms on par with desktop hard drives.

    5. Re:desktop replacements? by jo42 · · Score: 1

      Have a gander at Liebermann laptops.

      2048x1536 screens, 7200 RPM drives, 3.2GHz P4EE, all for about $7000 US pesos...

    6. Re:desktop replacements? by intermodal · · Score: 1

      looks pretty nice. I particularly like the widescreen model.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    7. Re:desktop replacements? by lazerhawkpc · · Score: 1

      um..... drool....... that is a kickass notebook
      lol, now I only nee $6700 more dollars and the dream will be mine :P

  5. huh by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They keep saying "Oh, these flashy notebooks are now good enough to be a desktop replacement! You don't need a desktop any more! You're FREEEEEE!"

    And then nobody replaces their desktop with them, they just swan round office meetings and expensive cafes with them to show off.

    In 6 months, desktops are even more powerful and laptops have fallen behind again.

    Yawn

    graspee

    1. Re:huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They pack so much power into notebooks and skip out on what's important..the keyboard. The notebook keyboards are smaller than the "standard" size so if you're used to touch typing on a normal keyboard, it's a pain to use a notebook, and they will never be a desktop replacement.

      I find the apple powerbooks to be the most pathetic because the 17" has plenty of space for a normal keyboard and yet it has the same tiny POS. The price difference is huge and I really couldn't care less if my screen is 12" or 17", but I'd be willing to pay more for the larger keyboard.

    2. Re:huh by valkraider · · Score: 1

      How is that "insightful" - really? It does not take ANY "insight" to form an opinion, about a keyboard...

      But I actually *prefer* laptop keyboards. The shorter keystroke and closer keys is much nicer to me, and I type faster and my hands get less tired. To each his own I guess.... And if the 17inch powerbooks had larger keyboards, you'd pay even more because then Apple would have to have a completely new keyboard manufactured just for that model. As it currently stands they can share between that model and the 15inch... I would imagine that the same assembly line could be used for all the Powerbook keyboards - just different parts for the backlit... But if you change the dimensions, a whole new assembly line would be required. That's why the Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon are 95% the same vehicle... Cheaper to make on one assembly line....

    3. Re:huh by ViolentGreen · · Score: 1

      I think the point is that they aren't consistant with standard desktop keyboards. When you are used to typing on a desktop or notebook, it's difficult to move to the other.

      Also, desktop keyboards have much moer space inbetween the "pressed" top portion of the keys then notebooks do. This makes it more accessable for people with large fingers. A lot of people with large fingers have trouble with laptops.

      --
      Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
  6. General summary by rf0 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Basically it looking like this are some kick ass machine in the power area with fast CPU's, Inbuilt RAID good graphics. However they get a bit to warm for comfort and way a tone. Would like to have one, need to be a little bit cheaper.

    Rus

  7. already by infonick · · Score: 1

    /.'d

    --

    You are confusing me with someone who cares.
    1. Re:already by andrewa · · Score: 1

      That's true. I went over and picked out all the options (WWWWindow shopping...) to look at the end price. If I were a real customer I would have given up by the time I got to the tattoo option. /a

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
  8. desktop replacement by Martin65 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hasn't almost every notebook that has come out in the last 10 years been touted as a "desktop replacement" ??

    1. Re:desktop replacement by rf0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes and these are the first to be physically strong enough to replace the desk

      Rus

    2. Re:desktop replacement by cfuse · · Score: 3, Funny
      Hasn't almost every notebook that has come out in the last 10 years been touted as a "desktop replacement" ??

      Yeah but they keep getting lighter and smaller, so how am I supposed to fit all the crap on my desk into it? It doesn't even have legs!

    3. Re:desktop replacement by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      A lot of them are like that. You can do this or get some P4 3.05GHz notebook but they really aren't all that mobile compared to notebooks that have chips intended for mobile use. I really don't consider putting desktop chips in a laptop much of a good laptop computer, for heat and power consumption reasons.

      I think putting desktop chips in a laptop is often known as a "desknote" and often aren't meant to be used unplugged for very long, not that they could. The assumption is that it is an easy to move machine and where ever you use it, you'll likely be near an outlet. I really would ignore the stated battery run time claims made, even more so than standard portable devices.

    4. Re:desktop replacement by wfrp01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yup. My laptop replaced my desktop quite a while ago.

      I think there are only two reasons laptops have not completely usurped desktops already. Horsepower isn't one of them. (1) Cost. (2) Ergonomics. The physical configuration of today's laptops doesn't put the screen at the right height, or the keyboard in the right position. I deal with it, but since this is what I do all day long, I do start to worry about being hunched over in such a bad posture all the time. Someone really needs to come up with a detacheable monitor that can be raised to a proper height, and a keyboard that can be more ergonomically positioned. I think that economies of scale and Moore's law will take care of the cost problem.

      --

      --Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
    5. Re:desktop replacement by bluGill · · Score: 1

      I know a number of people who have replaced their desktop with a laptop. Those that don't travel 100% (ie spend most of their time at an office) have a monitor, keyboard and mouse on their desk. Desktop replacement works great when you realize that what you really get is a harddrive with all your junk on it that goes with you, and includes everything you need to use it someplace else.

      A desktop replacement doesn't mean replace all the parts of the desktop. It means you replace some of the parts.

    6. Re:desktop replacement by wfrp01 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know people who do that. I just have a pile of computers plugged through a KVM switch into a 21" monitor - but that's a different story. (My main computer is still my laptop.) I don't really want all the accessories, though. I like my desk space. I don't want to spend the money. I want the same ergonomics at home as I have in the office. IBM has built some prototypes that pretty much capture what I'd love to have.

      --

      --Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
    7. Re:desktop replacement by jacksonyee · · Score: 1
      The physical configuration of today's laptops doesn't put the screen at the right height, or the keyboard in the right position. I deal with it, but since this is what I do all day long, I do start to worry about being hunched over in such a bad posture all the time.

      I've actually brought a wireless USB keyboard/mouse combo just for this exact problem. Besides allowing me to type and point where I choose, it also makes a very handy remote for presentations/DVD showings. A4Tech sells a cheap non-optical combo for about $25 if you're interested. Optical mice, will of course, cost a bit more.

  9. More like attack of the power hogs by TheRedHorse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Voodoo Envy laptop makes such promises as "3 + hours of battery life(when running real world apps like MS Office and the internet)". It also weighs in at 8 pounds.

    No thanks, I'll pass on that.

    My idea of a laptop is a good mix of power to get things done and portability. I doubt users will be carrying around their 8 pound Voodoo Envy for long.

    Add that to the $3500 price tag and you have an expensive and unusable "laptop".

    1. Re:More like attack of the power hogs by Txiasaeia · · Score: 4, Informative

      Right on. Centrino notebooks (like IBM's T40 even) are able to for 5-6hrs without breaking a sweat -- and the T40 is a full-fledged desktop killer.

      --
      Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
    2. Re:More like attack of the power hogs by Zeinfeld · · Score: 1
      Right on. Centrino notebooks (like IBM's T40 even) are able to for 5-6hrs without breaking a sweat -- and the T40 is a full-fledged desktop killer.

      I use my T30 as a desktop replacement. The only thing I ever use my desktop machine for is as a server. Seriously if you *need* a 64bit CPU as opposed to just gotta have the latest kewl toy you probably need more than this particular laptop provides.

      At this point raw speed is much less interesting to me than aesthetics and integration. If someone would make a line of Wintel hardware that looks as good as the Apple stuff I would buy it. I am not giving up my right mouse button or learning the dopey 1980s style apple UI to do so.

      Sony got close with the Vaio line, but pity about the finish, both of the VAIOs I bought ended up sprouting sticky tape to hold parts together. And if you are going to stick $0.25 power connectors on a laptop you should sell them for $0.25 as spare parts. Sony wanted $300 apiece for a repair that should take 10 minutes and a $0.25 part.

      The recent progress with small power cells might well end up being the next real advance for the field. All they need to do is to find a better packaging for the refils than having folk walk arround carrying a can of lighter fluid.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    3. Re:More like attack of the power hogs by Txiasaeia · · Score: 1
      So you own a T30 - have you actually picked up an iBook? I could probably use a T30 as a lethal weapon, whereas an iBook is far too dainty for the task. I haven't used a TiBook.

      Can you tell that case longevity is extremely important to me? :)

      --
      Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
    4. Re:More like attack of the power hogs by bitflip · · Score: 1

      Depends on the user. I've done a lot of work that involved doing heavy duty processing at a customer's site. The only time I carry the laptop is to and from the site, and I have enough other associated crap that the laptop isn't the bulk of the weight.

      The idea isn't always to be able to work, anywhere. The idea, for me at least, is to get as much horsepower as I can, where I need it. Battery life means little to me, there's plenty of outlets in datacenters and cube farms, and no battery is good enough to last one of _my_ days (12-14 hours). Only meeting-weenies care how much a laptop weighs.

    5. Re:More like attack of the power hogs by TheLittleJetson · · Score: 1

      Only meeting-weenies care how much a laptop weighs. ...and students! carrying a 8lb laptop from class to class? yeah right... -m

  10. Won't happen by benja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Come on, there are two reasons to prefer a desktop over a laptop. First, ergonomics: some people just prefer to have a big keyboard and a big monitor and being able to move the two independently of each other. Second, hardware capabilities-- you can fit more into a desktop, and you can upgrade it easily. (Oh, and you don't need to optimize for size or battery lifetime, so things can be cheaper and more powerful.) Neither of these is going to go away. Even if there are some really powerful laptops out there now, there'll be some even more powerful desktops coming up soon.

    That said, there's no reason why laptops can't replace desktops for many kinds of people today. I haven't had a desktop in 3 1/2 years -- nothing new there.

    1. Re:Won't happen by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also there's multi display folk. Sure, I could plug another monitor into my laptop, but then the displays won't be the same and one will be a (inferior) laptop display.

      I have three large identical high viewing angle TFTs on my desk (that cost less than half of just one of those laptops) - just couldn't easily be done around a laptop based setup.

      --
      Beep beep.
    2. Re:Won't happen by JFMulder · · Score: 1

      I think a laptop would be much better in that case because for most of the users, having such a small computer (laptop) that can do the same thing as a tower + screen + keyboard combo is much better.

      Most people don't upgrade so upgrade is pretty much a moot point.

      I prefer laptops or desktop replacement over desktops. For my gaming needs, I buy a console. That's about the only reason to own a tower anyway. Unless you're into heavy video editing, you don't need the most blazingly fast computer out there.

    3. Re:Won't happen by mantera · · Score: 4, Interesting


      Okay; there are big advantages to a "desktop-replacement" laptop over an actual desktop; I now have my second desktop-replacement laptop and I doubt I will ever buy a desktop again.

      First of all, a laptop doesn't take as much space as a desktop; just try to fit a desktop computer into a dining room or a living room, or even a bedroom, it's just damn unsightly and unweilding, let alone unportable, a laptop will fit into these with no trouble at all, and if you wish to you can unplug it in throw it into the drawer.

      A laptop can easily become a portable DVD player. My Sony Vaio has TV out, so I can plug it into the scart to watch movies on the TV. Or, if I watch those foreign or independent movies that no one else wants to see, I switch off the lights, lie comfortable on my side or back, and either unfold the laptop and rest it on its side so it has an angle that'll keep it up, or rest it on my stomach with an empty A4 sized folder attached to it with a thick rubber band, amazingly they're exactly the same width, and the folder both gives it a good angle and sheild the heat from my stomach, and it weighs almost nothing. From this close distance, it feels so much like watching a movie in the cinema, sizewise!!! Now try watching a movie on a desktop... argh, it's an ordeal.

      Then, you can take a laptop to work or with you to a hotel room.

      As for ergonomics, the full-size screen of a sony vaio is immensely comfortable, and a 15" screen is quite generous.

      Any modern laptop will have a processing power that'll last for years. I've upgraded my memory to 400mb. As for upgradeability, I have a Belkin 7-port USB hub, and i can daisy chain that to have 127 USB ports if i want to. I'm quite happy with this combo, the memory upgrade and the USB 7 port hub completely transformed my usage. I downloaded a virtual desktop utility from sourceforge, and now i keep my commonly used Apps running at startup, and my cybershot cam and clie handheld, and wireless gamepad, always plugged into the USB hub.

      What more is there to ask for.

    4. Re:Won't happen by cbriscoe · · Score: 0

      If I sit 12 inches away from my 53inch widescreen it is just like being in the movies too. It tends to give me a headache though.

    5. Re:Won't happen by acxr+is+wasted · · Score: 1

      Console + Laptop... what more do you need in life? Simplify, man.

      --
      "Come on, let's go drink till we can't feel feelings anymore."
    6. Re:Won't happen by ButterDog · · Score: 1

      "First of all, a laptop doesn't take as much space as a desktop"
      Suggest you should take a look at Shuttle XPCs.

      "As for ergonomics, the full-size screen of a sony vaio is immensely comfortable, and a 15" screen is quite generous"
      You're suggesting laptops are ergonomical? Do you realize, because the screen and the keyboard are not detachable on most laptops, that it is impossible to maintain an ergonomical setup with laptops? Placing your laptop low and you are killing your neck while comforting your arm. Placing it too high you are killing your arm instead. You just can't have both your neck and your arm in a correct position because the screen and the keyboard of your laptop are attached too closed together.

      Oh and don't get me started on using those horribly jam-packed laptop keyboard.

      You should visit here to learn the ergonomic pitfalls of your laptop.

      "As for upgradeability, I have a Belkin 7-port USB hub, and i can daisy chain that to have 127 USB ports if i want to"
      As if I cannot hook up 127 USB ports on a desktop?

      "or rest it on my stomach with an empty A4 sized folder attached to it with a thick rubber band, amazingly they're exactly the same width"
      Truely *amazing* point. Makes me feel bad about my desktop not matching A4 folder size.

    7. Re:Won't happen by WWE-TicK · · Score: 1

      Just get a docking station.

      I got one of those ultra-light Dell Latitude C400 notebooks. It's only about 3lbs and has only a 12" LCD screen, so it's very portable but yes it's ergonomics sucks (however, it's not *that* bad compared to other laptops I've had). Which is why I have the docking station for it so when I'm at my desk I can dock it and get the full fledged desktop PC experience (except for the noticeably slower hard drive compared to what you'd find in your average desktop).

      And Dell's C/Dock II docking station has 2 PCI slots so if the USB doesn't give me enough expansion options, I can always go traditional and use the PCI slots.

      I managed to get a good deal off Ebay and bought two C/Dock II's for $30 a piece so I have one for work and one for home. It's great being able to take my office machine to and from work without breaking my back in the process. At this point the 1.3Ghz CPU maybe somewhat on the slow side, but for my purposes it's great. The slow CPU speed means I can take longer coffee breaks in between compiles.

    8. Re:Won't happen by JFMulder · · Score: 1

      A lot more, but for my electronic entertainment needs, that's enough.

    9. Re:Won't happen by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      First, ergonomics: some people just prefer to have a big keyboard and a big monitor and being able to move the two independently of each other.

      Is this really a big issue? I have yet to see a laptop computer that you can't attach an external display and keyboard to.

      Sure, you have to buy those devices in addition to the computer itself, but that's what, $200-300 more? You bought a laptop, so you can obviously afford to pay above rock bottom for your computer components.

    10. Re:Won't happen by rossifer · · Score: 1

      I do exactly this, however, in contradiction of your remarks, I personally find that the laptop display is superior to the 20" trinitron monitor it sits beside.

      Subpixel antialiasing (ClearType to Windows folks) allows the LCD to absolutely stomp the phosphor technology in readability. As long as I'm looking at a high-res LCD using subpixel antialiasing, I now prefer reading text on a screen to reading it on paper (a first for me).

      It doesn't hurt that I insist on a 1600x1200 display in any laptop I'm using... (IBM Thinkpad A21p at home, Dell Latitude 8xxx at work)

      Regards,
      Ross

  11. Cooling? by BWJones · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow! Pretty impressive. This could be the next ultimate LAN gaming machine, but will I ever really be able to run it on batteries for more than 15 minutes? I know they claim 3+ hours, but.....

    What about cooling? I thought my 12in Powerbook got pretty warm on occasion, but this might have to come with a warning.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Cooling? by Worminater · · Score: 1

      Honestly, my laptop claims 3.5 hour battery life, and yet gets like around 2 hours for normal use, 1.5 or so battery life during dvd playback. Fair? no

    2. Re:Cooling? by i_need_no_nick · · Score: 1

      this might have to come with a warning... ... Or a first-aid kit for burn victims...

  12. Something different by ActionPlant · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If they can fit 64 bit tech (why couldn't they before?) into a laptop, I'd love to see something modular come of this. Get a keyboard that can detach from the thing. A small wireless mouse that hooks on the side. A dock for the screen.

    That way we can have our cake and eat it too. I want a laptop that PAINLESSLY becomes my desktop when I take it home, without having to plug a bunch of crap in.

    When are they going to get it right? Must we do everything ourselves? I mean seriously...look at some of the innovations that would have never happened without someone in the modding community doing it first.

    If I could get funding, I'd even build the thing and send it to a manufacturer if it means I can buy a bunch for my kids in the future when they hit college age.

    Damon,

    --
    http://actionPlant.com
    1. Re:Something different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like a docking station?

    2. Re:Something different by Junta · · Score: 1

      Number one, they already have docking stations, if you don't mind having a separate Keyboard, Mouse, and display (etc). Put it in, good to go. And for the few with Bluetooth enabled laptops, they have bluetooth mice and keyboards, in which case you just plug power and a monitor in and it is good to go.

      Second, when you start talking about a system where the keyboard and display fold out to more friendly desktop dimensions, I think I remember seeing a Thinkpad prototype at some point that did just that, the keyboard came out and down, and the screen could be elevated to an appropriate height. I thought the whole thing silly, but I guess some people are interested. I prefer docking station where you have a nicer display and a less compromising keyboard.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    3. Re:Something different by Mindcry · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I also think I saw IBM demos/ads for the fold out laptop a while back... And then there's docking stations... and you can even get a tablet with a stand and wireless mouse/keyboard... tablet fold over so its just a screen, so it'd be like a desktop, though with a carrying case and extra expense :)

  13. Still called "laptops", huh? by Frac · · Score: 4, Funny

    The feeling of actually placing an Athlon 64 notebook on your lap is probably not too different from placing an upside-down George Foreman grill on your lap.

    No kids for you!

    1. Re:Still called "laptops", huh? by mantera · · Score: 2, Interesting



      You need something like this if you want to rest a laptop on in your lap while sitting in a sofa or on a couch. It's a simple do-it-yourself and it doesn't get any better than this. Amazingly my Sony Vaio is the exact width to a standard A4 folder. The folder adds hardly any significant weight, and it will sheild a significant amount of heat from your thighs, as air and carboard, which is still tough enough and durable if good quality, are poor conductors of heat. Also, as long as you don't rest your wrists, which you should never do anyway, typing will be comfortable with this tilted angle. In addition, the tilted angle will lift the screen up, especially when you adjust the screen hinge to unfold it a little further, so instead of looking down, you're looking a little more forward. You can even use two folders on top of each other, in either of two combinations, either for a more horizontal or a more tilted towards vertical position. You can also use two thick rubber bands if you don't trust the quality of those you purchased.

      Interestingly, IBM has recently demonstrated a prototype that does something similar, which mimics a lot of this simple trick that you can have for almost free.

    2. Re:Still called "laptops", huh? by tho+1234 · · Score: 1

      Obviously you haven't used a modern notebook- EVERY single notebook cpu is DESIGNED to run at a temperature of 100 celcius+, (the boiling point of water for you americans), which translates to about 70 celcius on the surface. laptops actually come with warning stickers that say "do not attempt to use this "laptop" device on your lap, or serious injury may occur" People who disregrard this actually have gotten 3rd degree burns.

    3. Re:Still called "laptops", huh? by Frac · · Score: 1

      You and all the other panty wastes who still think AMD chips run hotten that Intel's should be castrated. Fucken retards. The joke is NOT funny anymore!

      Yeah... I own a dual Athlon MP 1800, and I can tell you it's no coincidence that I'm the last person in my apartment to turn up the internal heating in my room. I can cook eggs on the top of my aluminum PC case if I wanted to.

  14. benchmarks not very good by nomadlogic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    while this is a pretty interesting article, the benchmarks are dubious at best. most, if not all of these apps, are 32bit apps. the OS seems to be win2k, which last time i checked is not a 64bit OS. altho i'd have to admit they are comparing the notebooks themselves and not the chips. in any event they both look like monster "laptops".

    --
    God is real, unless declared integer.
  15. old news.... by epicstruggle · · Score: 4, Informative

    Anandtech has had a review for a week or so:
    part 1
    part 2
    their conclusion:

    "We recommend this beautiful notebook to those looking to tackle the best of desktop gaming, high-end multimedia users, and even those looking for an alternative to the very popular Pentium 4 desktop replacement notebook, like those that are ODM through Clevo (Sager/Eurocom/Hypersonic). At the moment, this is the only notebook on the market to use a processor from the Athlon 64 family, and we are sure there will be more to follow. We are particularly excited to hear about AMD?s upcoming mobile Athlon 64 processor, which should breathe a breath of fresh air that mobile systems have yet to fully appreciate"

    later,

    --
    "Im drowning here, and you're describing the water!"
  16. Laptops with desktop chips... by Goonie · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The deal with these "desktop replacement" notebooks is that they are quite large and heavy, with desktop CPUs and physically larger (and thus cheaper and sometimes faster) hard disks and such. 3D graphics aside, they are as fast as desktop machines - much faster than the "thin and light" notebooks that cost similar amounts. They are also fitted with big LCD screens (16 and 17 inch LCD's in some cases) However, they weigh a ton and have batteries that don't last very long at all.

    Personally, I think these things are like road-biased SUVs - overpriced hybrids that by being adequate for two tasks are not very good at either. Gimme a real desktop machine, a thin-and-light (or, better still, an ultralight), and rsync and you've got a much better solution.

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
    1. Re:Laptops with desktop chips... by nullard · · Score: 1

      I disagree. My PowerBook G4 is a real desktop replacement. The hard drive isn't as fast as the one on my desktop, but the screen is nicer (or will be after they fix the white spots), it has a DVD burner, FW 800 & 400, USB 2.0 (the real one), 802.11g, and s-video and DVI output. It's faster than my desktop, has more ram and a larger hard drive.

      It's also light, not to big (I have the 15" screen), and the battery lasts long enough to watch two DVDs on a charge. It has delayed my G5 purchase by at least 8 months. I almost never use my desktop anymore except via ssh to get at my old apps and files.

      --


      t'nera semordnilap
    2. Re:Laptops with desktop chips... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously you haven't lived the life of a college student. It's a pain in the ass to move your desktop with 19" CRT monitor and millions of cables. You also typically live in a shoebox-sized room with no desktop space.

      The desknote laptop/desktop hybrids are typically much cheaper than laptops and perform quite well. It's also relatively sturdy compared to a thin and light. You sacrifice in travel weight, battery life, and temperature but that doesn't matter when the furthest it's going to move is from your drawer to the desktop and you'll always use it plugged in. When you're moving back for vacation you can take it with you on the plane or it fits in one bag for the car. If you're carpooling there won't be complaints about the goddamn computer taking up half the trunk either

      Or, what I think THIS model is marketed for, if you're going to a LAN or two every weekend it's especially painful to pack everything up, transport it somehow and usually with other people trying to do the same thing, then unpack and set everything up. Even worse if you're going to a LAN and you need to fly. Shipping's going to be a bitch otherwise. There's also limited space at those LAN parties so you won't be cramped for elbow room or a place to put your drink when you've got a desknote.

      Use your head man. There's a notebook out there for every purpose. They aren't all the same and equal.

    3. Re:Laptops with desktop chips... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fool yourself all you want, your laptop won't hold a candle to a G5 based desktop. Just because you have a lacking desktop doesn't mean you can call a laptop a desktop replacement. How are you planning on having 2 terabytes of disk space on a laptop? Daisy chain 4 or 5 hard drives? I spose you could but thats a mess with cables and has other issues. Definitely not a desktop replacement for anyone that uses even half of what a desktop offers.

  17. Stupid 1GB memory limit by X · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have to bitch about the low memory limits on these AMD64-based laptops. All the ones I've seen so far max out at 1GB (actually, many of the desktops also max out in the 1-2GB range, but at least a few are cluefull). This pretty much kills the point of having a 64-bit processor (I guess you still might get a boost with properly tuned integer code).

    Word to the wise: 64-bit apps actually take up more memory, if for no other reason than all the pointers are now 64-bit instead of 32-bit. So your 1GB laptop is going to feel a lot more memory constrained than if it were running 32-bit code. The Intel systems have better power management, and they typically will let you go to 2GB, so for most folks they will actually perform significantly better.

    Methinks this first generation of laptops is essentially for folks who want the bragging rights of saying they have a 64-bit CPU, without really understanding the implications.

    --
    sigs are a waste of space
    1. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by addaon · · Score: 1

      Um, you may not get the advantages of >4GB physical memory, but you get the advantages of a >2GB virtual address space, which many of us consider a much bigger deal.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    2. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by X · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, you can get >2GB virtual address space with Intel already (you can get up to 4GB with the right kernel options). Heck, with x86 you can already get >4GB physical memory. That being said, if you are in it for the virtual memory, than you probably don't want to be using a laptop anyway, as the disc performance will be brutal.

      The large virtual memory address space is nice, but your code will likely actualy perform worse than 32-bit code that cleverly uses smart pointers to manage your IO.

      Still, you are right. As I said, there are some minor benefits to having a 64-bit CPU even if you are limited to 1GB of memory. However, I suspect for most folks the extra memory consumption of 64-bit code (and the resulting swapping and cache misses) will likely outweigh the benefits substancialy. It's like having a 1000hp engine hooked up to a drive train that can only handle 200hp.

      --
      sigs are a waste of space
    3. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      The Athlon 64 FX - Athlon 64 XXXX+ relation is just like the
      386DX - 386SX relation, it alows for a cheaper motherboard/memory design, while still being able to run all the AMD64 code, altough a little slower. It's essentially a normal Pentium/Athlon XP but able to run AMD 64 if you need to, just like the 386 SX was a 286 able to run 386 code.
      Plesae note I'm talking supposed function here, not internal design.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    4. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by __aafutm5472 · · Score: 1

      You need one of these

      Mmmm....4GB of RAM in a 64-bit laptop...

    5. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by X · · Score: 2

      The analogy is not entirely correct though. The non-FX Athlon64's are fully capable of addressing more than 4GB's of memory. The limitation is coming from the motherbaord/memory design. While I agree that for some folks that is an okay way to go, I don't think this is the target market for these laptops. Heck, given how nice the Pentium-M's are these days, the only reason I'd go for an Althon64 laptop would be for the extra memory.

      --
      sigs are a waste of space
    6. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      Then you did not understand my analogy, I was talking about being able to buy something now that will be able to run 64 bit software (win xp-64, suse linux 64) just like an 386SX could run 386 code, but a 386SX system was much cheaper to produce was therefore able to compete directly with the 286 on price. The SX was the end of the 286 as the Athlon 64 will be the end of the Athlon XP, and maybe the Pentium too.
      Athlon XP - 286
      Athlon 64 - 386SX
      Athlon 64 FX - 386

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    7. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by X · · Score: 1

      I totally understand your analogy. However, the differences between the Athlon 64 and Athlon 64 FX are relatively minor (basically the FX has the dual-channel memory interface), whereas the differences between the 386SX and 386DX were substancial. Indeed, following your analogy the whole Athlon64 line is the 386SX.

      What I'm complaining about though has nothing to do with the CPU. It has to do with the motherboards. You're selling point is that you have a 64-bit CPU, presumably for heavy duty computing, but you hook it up to a motherboard that limits you to less memory than a "heavy duty" 32-bit system. So, your customer pays a premium in order to get a system that is actually crippled compared to the alternatives. This same retailer that is selling the 1GB Athlon64 system is also selling very nice Intel system which can have 2GB of RAM. There aren't that many scenarios where it'd be wise to get the AMD system.

      It makes absolutely no sense beyond misleading the end user to make an extra buck.

      --
      sigs are a waste of space
    8. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      The real heavy duty solutions are all 64 bit, Opteron, Athlon 64FX and Itanium. These I compare to the 386.
      The Athlon64 will not give you real heavy duty performance, but will allow you to run the same apps as the real heavy duty systems. Just like the 386SX. By having a cheaper motherboard it can be sold to those who do not need the true heavy duty power. For existing apps it does not offer a big performance increase compared to existing systems, be it Athlon XP/Pentium for the Athlon64, or 286 for the 386SX.
      Both the Athlon64 and the 386SX are not targetted at the heavy duty market. They were meant as the cheapest possible upgrade path to the new technology, with performance and price to match the previous generation.
      In 1991 my dad bought an 286-20Mhz with 2Mb RAM as it did outperform the equally expensive 386SX-16Mhz with 1 Mb. But in 1-2 years he regretted the choice as the 386SX could have been upgraded to run Win3.11, Word6, use UMB, etc. while the 286 was already at the end of its options when bought, no matter that he could have plugged in up to 16 Mb. (memory prices had come down)
      That's the analogy I'm trying to make, even though I have no idea if the Athlon 64 will find the same market nice as the 386SX.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    9. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by X · · Score: 2

      Okay, let's point out the ways that the Athlon scenario is different from the 386/286 scenario (it's worth pointing out that a 1991 386sx would have been equally useless at running Win3.11, you really needed a new box whether it was acknowledged or not).

      1. The 386 actually provided distinctive new capabilities beyond just widening the address space.
      2. The 386sx was priced below all the 386dx processors.
      3. The cost of a 386sx processor in 1991 was not equivalent to buying a 286 + a motherboard.

      Check the details on the Athlon64 and Opteron lines. You'll be shocked to discover that the non-FX Athlon64 is actually more expensive than many Opterons. The mobile one is presumably even more expensive. Buying that CPU as a way of "future proofing" yourself is rediculous. It's far more cost effective to get a cheaper machine today and buy a new one when you are ready for the 64-bit world. If you really were concerned about future proofing your system, then you'd think you'd want a motherboard that could actually support adding on more memory (because I tell you, once you start running a 64-bit OS, and a 64-bit app that actually wants a 64-bit address space, 1GB is going to be rediculously cramped).

      More importantly though, because 64-bit processors don't have any significant new features beyond the larger address space (address space that most folks don't even need yet), you aren't going to find software manufacturer's releases 64-bit only general purpose software out there for ages. The only folks who are going to want the 64-bit address space are folks who actually need the memory.

      --
      sigs are a waste of space
    10. Re:Stupid 1GB memory limit by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      I agree with you on almost all points you present, I only have a different memory on 1991 prices, but maybe it was area dependant.
      I'm still not sure if you get what I meant, but let's end it here.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
  18. Ha Ha by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From the article:
    (Voodoo specs the unit at 8 lbs, but our test unit weighted in at 9 lbs, 4 oz.).
    Advertisers are such liars. They really have no shame.
    1. Re:Ha Ha by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      I'm sure without batteries and weighed in a vacuum it could be 8 pounds. :-)

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    2. Re:Ha Ha by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Voodoo specs the unit at 8 lbs, but our test unit weighted in at 9 lbs, 4 oz.

      Yeah, and when you buy it, the carrier will list the shipping weight at 12 lbs, but you will charged by your vendor for shipping 14 lbs.

    3. Re:Ha Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      They probably weighed it after they'd been drooling on it; after bits of cheese and other pizza topping fell on the keyboard; after they got dandruff on it; after whatever hairs landed on it; etc.

    4. Re:Ha Ha by addaon · · Score: 1

      Weighing it in a vacuum will make it seem heavier, to the scale.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    5. Re:Ha Ha by burns210 · · Score: 1

      isn't it more of a shock that a 'portable' computer weighs 9 pounds? that is quite a lot.

    6. Re:Ha Ha by valkraider · · Score: 1

      They do this with motorcycles, they always list weights "dry" - cause so many people use their motorcycles with no oil or fuel in them...

    7. Re:Ha Ha by DoctorPepper · · Score: 1

      Heheheh. I remember carrying one of these around. I believe they weighed-in at around 25 lbs.

      Back then, I would have given a lot for a 9 lb computer!

      --

      No matter where you go... there you are.
    8. Re:Ha Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weighing it in a vacuum will make it seem heavier, to the scale.

      Can some physics whiz explain to me why this would be the case?

    9. Re:Ha Ha by addaon · · Score: 1

      How much does a balloon weigh in a vacuum? How much does it weigh otherwise?

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    10. Re:Ha Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much does a balloon weigh in a vacuum? How much does it weigh otherwise?

      I'm not really sure how to address this. Here's my thinking:

      I don't see why the mass of the laptop (as an intrinsic property of the laptop) or the acceleration due to gravity (as a property of the Earth, in this case) would change whether it is in a vacuum or not. Why would F=ma (atmosphere) be any different than F=ma (vacuum)?

    11. Re:Ha Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buoyancy, grasshopper.

      The original poster mentioned weight, not mass. A rock immersed in water weighs less than the same rock on dry land. They still have the same mass though.

      In a vacuum, the laptop would weigh less (marginally so, but still). The mass would still be the same though, vacuum or not.

    12. Re:Ha Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buoyancy, grasshopper.

      The original poster mentioned weight, not mass. A rock immersed in water weighs less than the same rock on dry land. They still have the same mass though.

      In a vacuum, the laptop would weigh less (marginally so, but still). The mass would still be the same though, vacuum or not.


      Ah. Thanks.

    13. Re:Ha Ha by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Oh, yes, I see that now.

      Umm, weighed in an aquarium then?

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
  19. Bunch of other considerations, too by Sheetrock · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Cons:
    • One's less likely to drop a desktop.
    • Replacing or adding on components is less of an option.
    • It costs two to three times as much for a feature in a laptop as it does in a desktop.
    • Laptop stuff always seems to fail or act substandard at some point. Desktop stuff does too nowadays but you can replace it.
    • 64-bit is still experimental.

    Pros:

    • A laptop is portable.

    I don't know why people drop serious cash on these things. It's something like $700 for a low-end Dell laptop, which gives you everything you need except serious gaming potential. I'd never make a laptop my main system just because of the reliability factor alone.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:Bunch of other considerations, too by gumbi+west · · Score: 1
      I'd never make a laptop my main system just because of the reliability factor alone.

      You need a new manufacturer.

  20. Wow! by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Useless graphs, over-emphasis on gaming, lots of flashy buzzwords and "benchmarks" that involve nothing more other then running the latest games... Did someone screw up the DNS records for extremetech.com and reroute all traffic to tomshardware.com? No? Damned!

    Seriously, all of that is fun but laptops are usually sold for two reasons*, one being the size and the fact it's easy to hide then. ( really nice if you don't want a desktop case in the middle of your living room ) The second reason is that they are mobile ( really! ) and thus can be lugged around by business people who seem to value their email more then their own lives. What about important factors to people who want a laptop for those two reasons? What about size, weigth, heat during use, screen brightness, stability, etc etc? 98% of the people who buy a laptop care more about the damned thing being lightweigth instead of being able to cram out 0,2543 fps on Halo. If you're going to buy a laptop for gaming you're a bit dense to start with. You can buy a state-of-the-art laptop and before you left the story it's ancient already. Try upgrading the proc or graphics card of your shiny new laptop to run HL3 or Doom4. Try playing for more then six hours without the system stalling due to overheating. Try to install an extra HD or something.

    There, simply put; laptops are nice but aren't made to be used for gaming. Hence why putting a bunch of laptops through a series of benchmarks, aimed at gaming and set up by some people who most likely consider this to be the most arousing thing on the internet, is very useless. At best.

    * = Working in computer retail business, ( kill me please ) so I unfortunately know what I'm talking about here.

    1. Re:Wow! by Atmchicago · · Score: 1

      "...instead of being able to cram out 0,2543 fps on Halo..."

      Assuming the ',' is a decimal point, I sure wouldn't want to have 0.2543 fps on halo either. :)

      --

      You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.

  21. Blah. by Trejkaz · · Score: 0, Troll

    How much credibility can you give to an article which uses the words "DirectX" and "standard" in the same context?

    --
    Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
    1. Re:Blah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right. Very few games use DirectX.

  22. Wocka Wocka by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only on the address bus, tardmuffin.

  23. Desktop replacement? by djupedal · · Score: 4, Funny

    My desktop is almost 2 meters long and 1 meter front to back. It holds a 24.1" LCD and a 17" CRT (G4 is underneath), an iBook along with a set of speakers and subwoofer. You can also find the normal suite of accessories, external harddrives, digital cameras, hubs, coffee mugs, remote controls, shrunken head pencil holders, etc.

    I seriously doubt all this stuff can fit on top of a laptop, no matter that it is 64-bit. Besides, I can get a new, larger desk if I need, it for a lot less than the price these things are liable to bring.

    You guys are pulling my leg, right? Right? sheesh...

    1. Re:Desktop replacement? by DarkSarin · · Score: 1

      That is one of the biggest desks that I have heard of(for personal use). Most are only ~1m long and 0.5m front to back. 2m is pretty darn big.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    2. Re:Desktop replacement? by djupedal · · Score: 1

      Photo's on request :)

  24. Re:WTF by VojakSvejk · · Score: 0, Troll

    Amen, brother!

    Not only is 32-bit sufficient, it is usually FASTER (as on Opteron and MIPS). This is why Apple's claim to have delivered a 64-bit computer, given that you won't see a 64-bit OS that can give more than 4GB to one app is a LIE.

  25. In other news... by stubear · · Score: 0, Redundant

    ...asbestos pants are the new, hot (no pun intended) fashion for 2004.

  26. I have to say it . . . . . . by theparanoidcynic · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I for one welcome our small-but-hyperactive overlords. :p

    --
    Only in a Slashdot fantasy can a Slackware install turn into several hours of sex . . . . .
  27. I call bullshit on all these 'firsts'. by Cecil · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've been drooling over Hypersonic's Laptops for quite a long time now, and I find it very hard to believe that either of these companies have the first Athlon 64 laptop (which Hypersonic has had basically since the Athlon Mobile 64 was announced) or the first RAID array in a laptop, which Hypersonic has had for a long time in their Aviator GX8 series.

    Way too many "journalists" see something like that and go "whoa, that must be the first time that's ever been done." without ever looking into it.

  28. It;'s called a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...docking station. With it, you take your laptop and plug it in... Then you turn on your laptop, often with a button that is right on the docking station.

    With the docking station, you leave the keyboard, mouse, monitor and printer as well as other peripherals plugged in all the time.

    These have been around for something like ten years.

    Do you want to lament how some other 'cool' technology you have thought of still doesn't exist?

    Ooooh! I have one... You know it really sucks when you get a flat tire on your car. If there was some easy way to lift your car off the ground and hold it there, it would be really easy to change the tire... What could we call these things? I better patent that idea before someone takes it...

  29. That's OK... by douglips · · Score: 0

    When Apple comes out with the G5 powerbook he'll just say it's the first 64-bit laptop. Nobody will know the difference.

  30. Guess you don't do the sorts of things I do by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I find even powerful laptops a poor second to my desktop. One thing is 3d agmes. The laptop I have does ok, but still nowhere near what my desktop can do. Of course, there are now better laptops that are as good or better than my desktop, but likewise there are better desktop cards. However the biggest thing is audio work. I finally have audio interfaces that will work with a laptop (firewire and usb), however the drives are still damn slow. So that means it's either a lot of wating, or bringing an external drive. Oh, and you can never have too much CPU for that sort of thing.

    Now to try and use a P2 433? Thanks but no thanks. It'd be faster to save the data, walk it to a real comupter, render it, and walk it back than wait on a complex rendering on that. And forget about games.

    Look, I appreciate that there are people out there who do very little with their computers resource wise. That's great, I'm happy for you. However this silliness of "Well X old box is great and all you need" every time a story comes out on new hardware ought to stop. There are plenty of people who DO use lots of power for work or pleasure and so it is relivant to them.

    The point of a "desktop replacement" laptop means one that is powerful enough in every respect to compete with today's high end desktops. For those that want lots of power, this is of intrest.

    1. Re:Guess you don't do the sorts of things I do by intermodal · · Score: 1

      I can't say i agree with your verdict. A gaming box is not the same as a desktop, and laptops will never be on a par with top of the line desktops since whenever it catches up they come out with newer desktops. Laptops aren't ever likely to be price-competitive in the top of the line range, and will always lack some nice features like SMP and the ability to have a billion drives in there at once. But I'm still sticking with the fact that the majority of users out there (non-geeks) don't need a very burly box at all.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    2. Re:Guess you don't do the sorts of things I do by benzapp · · Score: 1

      ATI has a mobility Radeon 9600 Pro, that is enough to play most any game available right now. No need for a 64-bit laptop to play games when you can get one of them.

      --
      I don't read or respond to AC posts
    3. Re:Guess you don't do the sorts of things I do by EverDense · · Score: 1

      However the biggest thing is audio work. I finally have audio interfaces that will work with a laptop (firewire and usb), however the drives are still damn slow. So that means it's either a lot of wating, or bringing an external drive. Oh, and you can never have too much CPU for that sort of thing.

      I have a desktop replacement notebook P4-2.6GHz (desktop processor) that I use for both 3PS games and audio recording.

      It has a ATI 9000Pro mobility graphics chip and a 17inch widescreen display, so games are pretty damn cool.

      Until a couple of months ago I would've agreed with you on the notebook HDDs being too slow for audio applications. However,
      recently Hitachi brought out a 7200RPM 60GB notebook HDD, which kicks serious arse. Of course, they are currently a helluva
      lot more expensive than standard notebook HDDs. Expect that to change as other brands ramp up their speed.

      --
      http://jesus.everdense.com/
    4. Re:Guess you don't do the sorts of things I do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *shrug* there have been 7200 RPM notebook drives around for a while. I've nstalled baout 18 20Gb fluid bearing IBM drives that I picked up into customers laptops.

      You need to keep an eye on heat (powerbooks are usually fine, some models of iBook are iffy, some models of PC are iffy) and play with disk parking measures, but it's usually pretty good.

      And if you're doing high HD usuage, you still can't go past a high speed SCSI array. If you've got enough for a high end laptop, you can get an even higher end desktop :)

  31. Not my Transmeta/Fujitsu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its a slow ass laptop replacement

  32. desktop? by Sebastopol · · Score: 0, Redundant

    "...which are powerful enough to become a desktop replacement..."

    Can i be the first to say: what a fucking boner! My work IBM T-30 (2.0 GHz) is more powerful than my desktop, which is a 900 MHz P3 that I used for the past three years.

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  33. Re:WTF by typobox43 · · Score: 2, Informative

    That is very untrue. That (larger address space) is only one limitation of the 32-bit processors that you can ignore when using a 64-bit processor. The ability to natively do calculations with numbers larger than 4294967295 is a good plus for many types of applications. The lack of memory is certainly not a reason why the 64-bit processor would not be "worthwhile."

  34. Sofa King We Todd Did! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    440MHz 64bit for $3K?

    What might you need this slow ass laptop for that would require the extra address space?

    I have an old Nvidia Riva video card (128 bit) that I'll sell to you for the low low price of only $1000

  35. nVidia, ATi, Intel, AMD, et al seem to disagree by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In case you haven't noticed companies are working very hard to put out high end components for laptops. Seems to me they'd not be doing this if they did not see a market.

    Let's see: Dell is currently willing to sell me a laptop that has a P4 3.2ghz processor (faster than my desktop by 2x), 2GB of ram (2x more than my desktop), a 1600x1200 monitor (higher rez than my deskop), a GeForce FX Go5200 64MB (less ram but more features than my desktop), a 60GB 7200rpm harddrive (less space but equal speed to my desktop), and all sorts of extras like a DVD burner and such.

    So tell me how this system isn't designed for games, given that it is more powerful in most ways than my desktop, which is no slouch? It's not stopping either. nVidia already has a faster, more powerful mobile FX card, and ATi has a lineup to match.

    Ya, a lot of people care about light weight laptops. Hence why Dell et al sell small laptops. They are happy to sell you one with a small screen, low power P4-M chip and few included periphals. However there clearly are those that want large, capable desktop replacements, and so they sell those too.

    1. Re:nVidia, ATi, Intel, AMD, et al seem to disagree by illumin8 · · Score: 1

      ... a GeForce FX Go5200 64MB (less ram but more features than my desktop) ...

      So tell me how this system isn't designed for games ...


      Well, for starters, that shitty GeForce FX Go5200 graphics card really sucks for games. All of the benchmarks say that it performs about equal to a GeForce MX 440, which was lousy at best. So go with the Dell and see how good it is at gaming. If you really want a laptop for gaming at least get an ATI 9600 which should play most current games, but not Doom 3 or Halflife 2 or anything around the corner.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
  36. The real test... by 47Ronin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Take these power laptops from all the makers and run them on batteries.. see how fast they can complete their tasks and if how fast they run out of juice. Imagine a Photoshop contest with the Athlon laptop, some other 64-bit laptops, and the fastest 32-bit G4 Powerbook.. UNPLUGGED. Turn off all power-saving features and see which ones actually get work done without dying.

    That's the true test of a mobile desktop replacement.

    --
    Those who laugh at you for you having a Mac.. are the people who constantly call you to fix their PC.
    1. Re:The real test... by BadDreamer · · Score: 1

      Turning off all power saving features is not a good idea; rather, turn off all power saving features that make work harder.

      I have no problem with that my laptop pulls the CPU speed down when I'm moving my mouse between the color palette and the image, and there's a surprising amoung of time the computer spends waiting for the user. Forcing high power consumption while the computer is doing nothing is hardly helpful.

      A much better measure is how long they last and how hot they get while performing useful work - with settings that are optimal. This also encourages development of more efficient power saving methods that do not impact actual usability.

  37. Desktop replacement is a misnomer by GotAnMP3 · · Score: 3, Funny

    The advantage of a desktop computer is the ability to open it up and futz with the innards. Want to call your laptop a desktop replacement? Give it an AGP slot so I can upgrade the video card.

    So what if it'll be bulky and power hungry as hell? I want that high speed 3D rendering goodness to last and last.

    At the very least, a desktop replacement laptop needs to synthesize the roar of 8 miniature fans turning. Without that sound, it just seems like an aspect of desktop-ness is missing.

    1. Re:Desktop replacement is a misnomer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy an Alienware Area-51m with user replacable graphics. Not an AGP slot but close.

    2. Re:Desktop replacement is a misnomer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listen to an HP Pavilion ze5300 series sometime, these buggers have 3 fans, and even idle tend to have one on at all times, they get 1.5 hours battery life idle, about 45 minutes running full out (Played Morrowind on it sitting in the quad between classes) and running a serious compile comes out between 67 and 72 degrees Celsius.

      'Desktop Replacement' my posterior, setting my desktop on my lap doesn't tend to run the risk of cooking important male anatomy off.

      -- vranash

  38. That's just a load of bull by -noefordeg- · · Score: 1

    I've got two Dell Inspiron 8200 here on my desk, and I can't seem to find any desktop computer here. *wonders*

    Both comes with 64mb Ati Radeon 9000 graphic chip, 768mb memory and 60gb harddrive.

    They are both 14-15 months old and I still don't see any need to replace them. They are kickass computers for whatever need you could have, except for the extreme ones :p
    Want to play games? 99fps in CS, or runs Silent Storm pretty good (even desktop computers have trouble with that game)

    The screen resoultion is best at either 1280x1024 or 1600x1200.
    I'll never-ever get another desktop computer.

  39. Voodoo's Based out off.... by Fbelch · · Score: 1

    Calgary, AB Canada!

    That's right... they're Canadian!

    I've been into there store... 1 word.. WOW!

    If I had the cash, they would be the first place to go!

    They customize all their components, and the clean up the clutter that normally indures any geeks computer system! Round IDE Cables, Custom Cases, IDE-Cable folding, Lights, Mods.

    It's great to see a Canadian company do well for themselves!

    Keep up the good work Voodoo!

  40. That's because they all resell the same hardware. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Umm, it's called an ODM/OEM. Hypersonic gets these from a manufacturer, just like VoodooPc and everyone else selling this Athlon64 notebook - it's the same friggin model with the same specs, just slightly different colour choices & definitely different prices depending on who sells it to you. I've seen them as low as $2500.

    Same deal for most no-name [and even many brand name ] laptops. I cringe every time people buy an Alienware laptop when they could buy the same Clevo ODM model elsewhere for a LOT less.

  41. Yes it will .... by taniwha · · Score: 1
    but maybe not for everyone ....

    I switched over to only using laptops when my tendonitis became unbearable ... as a result I was able to throw away my wrist brace for the first time in 5 years .... for me at least there's no going back.

    I buy the biggest, fastest laptop around, beautifull 1600x1200 screen, runs linux like a charm - sure I could get something that's 20% faster ... but what would keep my lap warm at night ....

  42. Both aren't 64 bit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only one of these laptops is 64 bit.

    The Pentium 4 one is clearly not.

  43. link fixed...!!!... by mantera · · Score: 2, Informative


    Okay... let's see if this works better...

  44. there is a market for these things by Gutzalpus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People who are saying there is no market for these things are people that take their extra space for granted. I live in a very small one bedroom apartment. I have no room to have multiple desktop machines. However, being a computer geek, having more than one computer is an absolute necessity. Given the choice between having 1 desktop or 4-5 laptops in the same amount of space, I'll take the 4-5 laptops.

    A laptop like this is ideal for me - I can finally have a relatively high powered machine and actually play some of the newer games out there instead of having to find the games that are 3 years old because that's the most my laptops can handle...

    1. Re:there is a market for these things by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IMO you should be getting one of the rackmount enclosures used for music equipment and a bunch of 1U systems, then. Laptops have a bunch of crap you don't need, like multiple flat panels. A KVM, and one set of input peripherals completes your system. The only tricky part is finding a system with an AGP riser and a video card that will work in a case that small to go with it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  45. Mega-Notebooks by molafson · · Score: 1

    "I predict that within 100 years, laptops will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."

    Seriously.

    1. Re:Mega-Notebooks by vikramjairam · · Score: 1

      And Bill Gates, and Mr. President.

  46. Some things the Review Screwed up by �nertia · · Score: 4, Informative

    1: They didn't do ANY 64bit tests 2: The A64 was running on winxp pro not winxp 64. This would have been a much better comparison. 3: The memory bandwidth description is WRONG. the via k8t800 chipset actually has support for 2 hypertransport busses from the DDR to chip, because the chipset was designed for the opteron not the a64. Meaning that it's chip dependant how much memory pipeline there is.(I wonder if the laptop would handle a64fx chip which would mean an 800MHZ pipeline, the chipset does) This is glossed over (the nforce3 150 on the other hand has only one, because it's designed for the a64).

    --

    AEnertia
    Witty, tag line goes here

    1. Re:Some things the Review Screwed up by Bored+Huge+Krill · · Score: 1
      1. & 2. Yes, they were running WinXP pro. That's because that's what the machine ships with. WinXP 64 is still in beta. While you might like this to be an AMD/Intel shootout, it isn't. It's a comparison of two shipping machines, tested as configured. So why would that have been a better comparison? Incidentally, there's no reason to think 64 bit code would run faster on any of these benchmarks. In fact, there's good reason to think it would run slower. 64 bit code has a larger footprint; if you don't actually need the 64 bit address space, it usually hurts performance.

      3. The memory bandwidth description isn't wrong. It is incorrect to compare the hypertransport bandwidth to the FSB bandwidth, because they're not the same. One of the key points about the Opteron/Athlon64 architecture is that the memory controller is integrated. In the Intel architecture, the FSB carries all of the CPU/Memory transfer load, but none of the graphics load (which goes across AGP into the northbridge). In the AMD architecture, the CPU/Memory transfer load is internal, and the HT links carry the graphics load. The HT links don't go to the memory. Memory bandwidth is limited by the memory modules in both cases, not the FSB/HT links. It just isn't a meaningful comparison to compare HT bandwidth and FSB bandwidth. They carry different things.

    2. Re:Some things the Review Screwed up by �nertia · · Score: 1
      Yup sorry I screwed around what I meant about the HT bus. I merged my AGP memory pipeline and Memory bandwidth too close. However the HT bus does limit a number of things not just AGP. (Inter cpu comms for one).

      Nice spotting.

      --

      AEnertia
      Witty, tag line goes here

  47. Idiot marketers by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1


    Oh yeah, that's what every guy wants. A laptop that only has enough battery power for 60 minutes (power consumption) and second-degree burns on his member.

    --
    There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
  48. RAID in Notebooks by superangrybrit · · Score: 0

    Now that's worthy of a few canning. FFS it's the gayest thing I ever heard. lol

  49. Re:That's because they all resell the same hardwar by Cecil · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Man, I know about this practice, and I know a lot of people swear by buying ODM models. But the fallacy about "all they do is repaint it!" really needs to stop.

    As far as I can see, the Clevo top-end notebook, the D800P (correct me if I'm wrong) does indeed bear striking similarities to a few of the Hypersonic PCs. It also lacks several features that they have, including a 1600x1200 TFT (also known as UXGA, if you're a complete tool and prefer marketing jargon) and 802.11g, and a great dead pixel policy.

    Yes, the motherboard and most of it's assorted equipment are standard, but they do make changes, improvements, even things as small but tremendously important as putting down a new keyboard layout. Saying that it's just the same thing with a new paint job really isn't true at all.

  50. Try a Sharp instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm typing this on a Sharp Actius RD10 laptop...running Knoppix Linux off the hard drive (and still able to dual boot its original install of WinXP Home if necessary). Available at well under half the price of the two systems mentioned (if you're a savvy shopper), it does all that they do and more...but it does weighs 10 lbs. If you want all the bells and whistles in a desktop replacement machine, you have to sacrifice something....in this case, weight.)

  51. Better hurry up.... by LnxAddct · · Score: 1

    I better hurry up and get this before its too late.

    1. Re:Better hurry up.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa!

      John Titor was right AGAIN! = )

      TheUz

  52. spelling nazi by p0werstitch · · Score: 1

    maybe you mean

    a stereo is a stereo is a stereo

    --
    #include .sig
    1. Re:spelling nazi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actualy, I meant

      a stereo is a sterio is a stereo

  53. GPU by phorm · · Score: 1

    Even with a 64-bit powerful CPU, it won't hit the multimedia/gaming market as hard as a desktop PC due to the lack of a comparable GPU (video processor). I have seen some laptops that game decently, but neck-on-neck with similar desktop systems the laptops always seem to fall a bit behind... particularly when you can't upgrade the video hardware easily. Why can't laptops come with a more easily replaced video board (easy like RAM), or perhaps a slot for something akin to the old accelerator cards and keep basic functionality onboard.

  54. Scratch the battery by phorm · · Score: 1

    I've seen some which do nicely by simply getting rid of the battery. I think some are here.For those that really need it, you can buy an optional external battery, but for those just looking for a portable PC+monitor option, these do very nicely.

    No battery means less weight, room for a fullsize processor and/or hard-drive, as well as other components.

  55. A question is... by phorm · · Score: 1

    How often would you run it on batteries? My laptop lasts a little over an 1.5hr, but I've never really had to run off batteries at all except when relocating while running, or once when I was waiting for a kernel compile to finish.

    Mostly, these things just end up being a "portable desktop." You might use them in the car, in which case there are car-kits, but generally most other places you can find power to jack into.

    1. Re:A question is... by BWJones · · Score: 1

      How often would you run it on batteries? My laptop lasts a little over an 1.5hr, but I've never really had to run off batteries at all except when relocating while running, or once when I was waiting for a kernel compile to finish.

      I routinely need 3 hrs of battery life on cross-country plane flights. I have looked at Wintel laptops and have owned two in the past, but the Apple Powerbooks seem to give me the best possible battery life so far.

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    2. Re:A question is... by phorm · · Score: 1

      My laptop is also older though, 700Mhz celeron. I've seen new laptops do a lot better, 2-4+ hours on normal battery with power-saving options turned up. You get a dimmer screen etc etc, but as long as you're just doing office stuff and not running heavy media or CPU-intensive apps you'll probably survive.

      For those that really need it, extra batteries are an option as well, though it's an added expense and somewhat of an inconvenience.

  56. sp34k l33t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the Voodoo Envy m:855. translated in my l33t-speaking brain into "Voodoo envy my aSS". And I wondered what it had to do with the 64bit laptop.

  57. it all depends on how you define "replacement" by pbooktebo · · Score: 1

    I only have one computer in my life. For years, it was a desktop machine. 2 1/2 years ago I got a 15" TiBook.

    It replaced my desktop. Not that it can do more faster, but it can do all that I want, and the ability to work wherever I want (like in bed right now, with my sleeping cutie snuggled up beside me) outweighs performance power I rarely need.

    When I have a really heavy video project, I go to a friend's place for a night (this is a few times a year). The rest of the time, I'm much more than fine with what I have.

    I can't think of a need for a desktop and doubt I will for some time to come.

  58. 15 years ago... by turgid · · Score: 1

    15 years ago I was saying exactly the same about the Compaq SLT/286, which was a 12MHz 286 (16-bit) with 1 megabyte of RAM, a 20MB hard disk, a 3.5" floppy drive and a 16 grey scales 640x480 LCD. Why would anyone want one of those fancy 386 thingies in a laptop forgoodnesssakes.

  59. SGI had laptops... by SethJohnson · · Score: 1


    I don't know how many bit they were, but in the movie "Twister" they had product placement by SGI that featured a supposed SGI laptop. It was ridiculous. They actually had some regular laptop, but they ran a piece of masking tape across the name and hand-wrote 'SGI' on there. Additionally, when a big hail storm hit and they were running for cover, the guy with the laptop held it over his head to shield himself from the falling chunks of ice.. uhh.. how real is that?
    1. Re:SGI had laptops... by quarkscat · · Score: 0

      AFAIK, SGI has never had a laptop computer.

      However, they did market a "portable" system
      back in 1993-1994. (Indy Presenter) The system included an Indy WS, standard keyboard & mouse, and an LCD panel. The "portability" factor was
      a nice indigo blue padded knapsack. Total
      weight was about 34 pounds for a 32-bit OS.

      Very nice, and quite expensive presentation
      system that predated all the portable digital
      LCD projectors.

      This new Voodoo Laptop is easily ten times
      faster, and at one tenth the cost. Laptops do
      not strictly follow Moore's Law.

  60. Relax, its true multitasking by Llywelyn · · Score: 1

    Bah, I think the ability to cook your breakfast while you update your morning reports has its advantages.

    --
    Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
  61. 64-bit laptops exist for a long time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tadpole (www.tadpole.com) has been making laptops with 64-bit Sun UltraSPARC processors in them for quite a while now. So what's new about a 64-bit notebook?

  62. Hungry by rixstep · · Score: 1

    OK, all right, OK, now I'm hungry for a dual 2GHz G5 PowerBook and I won't wait any longer. I want it NOW... ;P

  63. 3D Graphics by rixstep · · Score: 1

    ATI's Mobility Radeon 9600 3D graphics

    OK, now there's no question what I want from Father Christmas. ;P

  64. Wow! Addressing 4GB, RAM only goes to 1GB... by Glasswire · · Score: 1

    Sure takes the edge of 64-bitness when big memory addressablilty is stifled by a platform that only takes a MAX of 1Gb of RAM.
    No, Virginia, 64-bit systems aren't faster unless they can use big memory (more than 4GB).

  65. Changed My Mind by rixstep · · Score: 1

    I changed my mind - I do NOT want a 64-bit Voodoo for Xmas.

    The Voodoo comes with XP pre-installed. Who would ever want that?

    I think I'll take one of those short-lived iPods instead.

  66. Re:keyboard size by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

    That all depends on what laptop you buy.

    The Tecra 9100 that I use full-time has a close to full-size keyboard (around 99% of the IBM desktop keyboard on my desk). Make the machine a bit of a beast that barely fits in my laptop bag as a result at 12.25" W x 10.25" D.

    Touch-typing is pretty easy on the larger laptops. Plus with the little nubby mouse in the middle of the keyboard, I rarely take my hands off the home row. (I do have an external USB mouse, but find it rare that I need to resort to it.)

    Heck, having the little nubby pointer available at your fingertips makes using a regular keyboard/mouse almost a throwback. Especially in a GUI environment where the developers failed to provide consistent keyboard navigation and you have to reach for the mouse to get something done. One of the reasons I miss the OS/2 v2/v3 user-interface where they spent a good amount of time making sure everything was "keyboardable".

    --
    Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  67. The curse of the "Desktop replacement" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Is that is has all the disadvantages of a lap-top, and none of the advantages of a proper desktop system to begin with.

    1. I do not like to type looking down to the screen, but rather looking horizontally at the screen.

    2. The keyboards are still small and iffy, this is my main issue with them. I do sometimes liek to punish my keyboard (When angry) safe in the realisation that replacing it is really not a big deal. I also like having a numeric keypad separate from the rest of the other keys. I do use my right hand for that a lot.

    3. I like to open my desktop if anything goes wrong or if I need to replace something rather than having to pay someone to do it for me, something I would have to probably do with a laptop.

    4. I cannot trust playing games on a laptop, probably to do with the keybaord thing again.

    5. Many laptop components are very limited, slow hard drives, slower graphics and so on, which is what makes for a really good desktop.

    You could probably add more and more. But this is the reason why lap-tops do not make good desktop replacements, even if they are as fast or faster. I think work is definitely slower on lap-tops, but maybe I am used to them. If I get a lap-top I will probably look for somethign otehr than spped in it, which is probably the reason Apple lap-tops are popular, they put in a lot of value adding stuff. Speed is not of much value in a lap-top.

  68. Voodoo slower than Christmas by muddywater · · Score: 1

    I ordered a Voodoo M:855 over a month ago. They were *supposedly* in mass production. My credit card bill for Oct came in with $3500 of bad Voodoo Mojo on it 4 weeks ago, but still no computer. When I ordered they said I would get it at the beginning of November(that was mid October), and December is only a few days away. Just wanted to warn you guys. If you want one, be prepared to wait, and wait, and wait.... If you order one now, I believe they said you will not get it before Christmas. Sure, the specs look good, but all of the competition will have the same for cheaper by the time this thing actually comes out.

  69. Don't forgot the hard drives by Nazmun · · Score: 1

    Unless you have a desknote with a desktop hard drive lappies also have much slower and smaller hd's.

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    Hmmm... Pie...
  70. Sager - Still champion by Druss.the.legend · · Score: 1

    For those who dont like the pricetag of the Panther - check out the 8890 at PCTorque.com (yes this is a shameless plug for a company that deserves it more than many I know). The machine is the same but the pricetag is a lot less. Also check out the 5680 (my personal machine) Its a smaller box with a UXGA screen. For those of you who are game freaks I play halo at 1600x1200 with full settings and have no lag. The 128MB 9600P overclocks nicely and is plently fast enough - add to the the fact its a dx9 card and you have a machine that will carry you to and past DOOMIII and HL2 (If they ever get released)

  71. Ok, not needing the ATi zealots thanks by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    I was not saying it was the most powerful gaming card. I know that, nvidia has power powerful ones, so does ATi. If you look at my post, I note that. It just happens to be the ones that Dell is shipping, so it is what I noted.

    Also, you ought to comprehend that this post is speaking in a hypothetical. I HAVE a laptop, thanks, this is talking about what I could get today, as a rebuttal that they can't replace desktops.

    So quit with the "ATI si teh rox!!!" stuff. I know, I have a 9800 Pro in my workstation I'm typing on right now, and my next card at home is going to be an ATi, barring any major changes. Quit jumping on people just because they mention nVidia or fail to laud ATi in a post when that isn't even the topic.

    1. Re:Ok, not needing the ATi zealots thanks by illumin8 · · Score: 1

      Quit jumping on people just because they mention nVidia or fail to laud ATi in a post when that isn't even the topic.

      I'm not an ATI zealot. My current card is a 9800 pro in my workstation, and my laptop has a 9600, but my last desktop card before that was an Nvidia GF4Ti4200. I just buy whatever card is best for the money. Right now ATI are on the top of the heap.

      But if you are going to buy a notebook, I just wanted to steer you away from the myth that the 5200go is a good GPU. It's actually a really shitty GPU (440mx) rebundled with a new name on it, as near as I can tell.

      --
      "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
  72. Re:Modular PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There was such a thing - the Ergo Brick, IIRC. A brick sized cpu/cdrom (pre dvd days), hence the name, which you were supposed to carry around, leaving a KB, mouse and screen wherever you wanted to use it. Great idea, as long as you know where you use your laptop, or your host can provide the requisites. Nowadays, I've been thinking about one of those nice boxes you can get with the handle - I don't often use my pc as a true laptop - like most people it runs off mains power 99% of the time, and most places I go have KB. mouse & screens I can use.

  73. STFU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but they are MACs, which means they suck, duh

  74. Plural??? by BiOFH · · Score: 1

    Don't you mean "laptop" -- singular?

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    - I am made of meat.
  75. The Indy laptop: It was a prop by BiOFH · · Score: 1

    The machine you see in the movie is a prop. The LCD screen is showing the output from an off-screen SGI desktop. As SGI built portable LCD displays at the time, this was a simple humbug for the physical effects people to pull off. A company (rsi-cri.com) once made some ruggedized SGI 'laptops', but they were a whole 'nother animal. They still make some awesome ruggedized SGI rack-mounts, though.

    And now, a plug for Jodeman's SGI & Stuff site(s)
    http://www.bbsolutions.com/jodeman/

    --
    - I am made of meat.