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The Robots are Coming
An anonymous reader writes "LinuxDevices.com's new 'Linux-powered Robots Quick Reference Guide' offers an interesting glimpse into of some Linux-powered robots currently available or near production, and provides an extensive reading list with further information on Linux in robotics. According to a fascinating article at TechNewsWorld, Linux is poised to play a centrol role in an emerging industry that many expect to overtake the PC industry in size: robotics. Japan is currently driving robot innovation, according to the article, impelled by a looming labor shortage. Consumer robots like the Sony Aibo and Honda Asimo make headlines, but ubiquitous, cheap, and practical utility robots are what most Japanese robot makers are focused on, and 'carmaker Honda believes that robots will become its most important business,' according to the TechNewsWorld article. Watch out -- the Linux-powered robots are on the march!"
..the term "Electronic-American", you insensitive carbon-based clods!
Finally, a solution to our needless dependence on batteries!
Japan is currently driving robot innovation, according to the article, impelled by a looming labor shortage.
Ugh. I get as excited about robots and Linux as much as anybody, but the semi-marxist in me gets a little freaked out by things like this.
How long before innovation that can take the role of a worker in a labor-shortage environment ends up being used to replace real people in a labor-glutted environment?
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
It really is a serious question. All software systems generally have a technical focus guiding their design, but when they're crammed into uses beyond that what they are designed for, product disasters usually result (see embedded NT. Indeed for the portable market Microsoft basically threw it all out and wrote CE from scratch for that platform).
I guess my question is given the plethora of extremely proven, capable solutions in the embedded market, what would make Linux (which was designed for the desktop/server market) a credible choice beyond perhaps catering to the hype machine?
...here at Slashdot!
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
These robots will not be connected to the Internet, so we don't have to worry about what happened to GNU/FSF, GNOME, Debian, and now Gentoo, all in the span of six months.
I, for one, welcome our new Linux robot overlords!
Thanks!
Now, they aren't installing KDE or X on the robot, goodness me. I think you're making the mistake of lumping linux all together, when they are really talking about the linux kernel here.
If the gap between the robot-owning haves and the hungry have-nots grows too large then those rich gated communities are going to have a hell of a time keeping angry mobs out. A little socialism is a good thing.
when it can wash and fold the clothes and put them away.
1. Gain controll of Linux
2. Command army of Linux robots
3. Take over the world!
Everything will be taken away from you.
I think the developments in robotics are going to force us to seriously reconsider our philosophy about life. If robots can do what we do now, better, what are we here for?
Personally, I'll welcome the day when robots can do all our work for us, and I can go and relax on the beach all day long.
welcome our Linux powered robotic overlords
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Judgement Day is near... the Terminators are here!!
I bought the extra shiny aluminum for my hat this week.
It doesnt feel it doesnt crash and it definately will never ever give up. Mrs Gates theres a robot with glowing red eyes and a plasma connon shaped like a pengiun at the door. Mr Gates aaaw crap
There is no reason for any individual to have a robot in his home.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I'm in middle management at Honda, and the real reason they are so interested in robots, Linux or otherwise, is to automate the car manufacturing process. The company line is to have robots doing 80% of the manufacturing of an auto by 2010.
J
"Japan is currently driving robot innovation, according to the article, impelled by a looming labor shortage..."
Excuse me?? Japan, with a labor shortage? This is the same Japan w/ the huge unemployment rate, runaway deflation, and enormous national deficit, right? Or, is this some other Japan I haven't heard about yet?
Looming labor shortage, my ass - robotic workers can't form unions, don't need health insurance, don't go on strike, don't quit, don't disobey orders, yada yada yada.
Corporate Japan's fascination with robotic workers has nothing to do with a 'looming labor shortage', and everything to do with eliminating the blue-collar worker to increase the white-collar's income.
Bastards.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
This article reminds me of the need, now more than ever, for insurance plans that cover robot attacks such as the Old Glory Robot Insurance plan.
See the video here
As a senior citizen you're probably aware of the threat robots pose. Robots are everywhere and they eat old peoples' medicine for fuel. Well now there's a company that offers coverage against the unfortunate event of a robot attack: Old Glory Insurance. Old Glory will cover you with no health check up or age consideration. You need to stay safe and that's harder and harder to do nowadays because robots may strike at any time. And when they grab you with those metal claws you can't break free, because they're made of metal and robots are strong. Now, for only for only four dollars a month you can achieve peace of mind in a world full of crime and robots, with Old Glory Insurance. So don't cower under your afghan any longer, make a choice. Old Glory insurance, for when the metal ones come for you... and they will.
You already have several robots in your home, more than likely:
In addition, there are folks like me who have robots for preparing their coffee in the morning. Some have robots for baking bread, and for making ice cream.
Most people make the mistake of thinking ROBOT = anthropomorphic device but that is not true.
Now, if you want to say "There is no reason for any individual to have an anthropromorphic robot in their home" you are correct, today
But as my mother, who was born in the 1920's once said to me, "When I was your age, if somebody had told me I would have a computer in the home, I would not have believed them - simply because I could not have seen any use for one." This, as she was playing cards on her computer.
Be careful, or you may find yourself up there with the "there is a market for 6 computers in the world", or the (non-quote) "640K is enough for anybody".
www.eFax.com are spammers
what are you going to do when the robots come for you. and they will. An insurance policy with robot coverage? Surely, im too old for that. and when they grab you with those claws you cant break free, coz they are made of metal, and robots are strong http://www.robotcombat.com/video_oldglory_hi.html
"Something's wrong with you...and I hope we never do meet again." - Deftones When Girls Telephone Boys
Sounds like Data and Tasha Yar are at it again...
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
Humanoid robots use a lot of processing power, every little shift in weight, wind, all has to be compensated for with carefully calculated counter-movements. A robot lying down or sitting would not use as much CPU.
It's why you see the Asimo moving so slowly. Even if faster motors were put into it, and it was rated for a higher top speed, those calculations for balance would have to be done more often.
This is before we even get into random terrain navigation. The robot has to know how to recognize different sorts of terrain (carpet, cement, gravel, dirt) and adjust its stride accordingly.
On top of all that we have the "interacion" layer. Facial recognition, speech and vocabulary. Now we have the perfect robot.
It's 2003, we can barely get the Asimo to walk up some stairs or do a few preprogrammed tricks. Our current limitations are CPU, storage, and battery life.
I think CPU, storage, and battery life will increase, as we create more powerful lower wattage components. Batteries themselves look as though they may be a dead end technology, so robots might be powered by methane fuel cells or some alternative power source we haven't discovered yet.
I think we have another 20 years before we see robots good enough for general use for labor, and maybe another 20 after before we can no longer tell the difference between what is robot, and what is human.
What I am surprised that I have not seen yet is McDonalds investing in some robotics.
Consider how the average McD's runs - there is a proceedure for EVERYTHING, and they pretty tightly control everything, as well - the time the fries are in the oil, the time burgers are on the grill.
Let the minium wage be raised a few times more, and I would not be surprised to see a McFryer that you load a pallet of frozen fries into, and it handles thawing, frying, drying, salting, and storing, and a McFlipper that takes a cartridge of meat patties, grills, flips, and stacks them onto buns.
I can foresee the day when your average McD's has one PFY busing tables while acting as a meatware speech recognition unit and occasionally loading a cartrige of food into a machine, with an ATM style interface in the store for the normal customers, and all the cooking is done by machine.
True, that is too expensive for them to do, today. But like I said, a couple of hikes in the minimum wage, maybe a law about health insurance, and it will happen.
www.eFax.com are spammers
You know, the citizens can elect representatives that redistribute wealth to the people from those who own the robots.....
eat shiat and bark at the moon
There is a saying:
"What happens when goverments no longer need citizens?"
It applies just as much to the network of corporations as it does to the network of governments.
There will be an impending shortage of labor... ...for those who need to labor!!
Evangelion
RahXephon
Robotech
Gundam
Hmm, but I bet they don't look as nice in white stockings.
I wonder how long before they develop a blow-up version.
sigs, as if you care.
You know, the corporations can get representatives elected to prevent such a thing from taking place...
I don't think it ever came about, but it is clean from comments by GM executives in the 1960s that they expected that they would soon reach 80% of the work done by machine. Wouldn't surprize me if they have, but how do you compare when cars are getting complex all the while you are installing robots. Hard to find a Model T plant anymore (even then I'd argue the assembly line is a robot...) so you can assemble a modern car with no robots.
have fun dealing with killer robot kernel panics
HOW'S MY POSTING? CALL 1-800-POSTING
Linux-powered robots can feel orgasm by automatic self fscking at startup!
Dude, you really need to format that. I'd read it otherwise, but damn, come on...some freakin' carraige returns for godsake...
Yet you and I are not adversely affected by autoamtion of cotton production, so its clear that a flexible workforce can, over time, adapt. The key is education and a willingness to change. If you don't have those, you're screwed.
How are fans supposed to help the robot move in a vacuum?
How are the fans supposed to help it move in a vacuum?
Pioneers get the arrows.
I know industrial robots have already killed people. Does anybody have a breakdown by OS?
You know, the citizens can elect representatives that redistribute wealth to the people from those who own the robots.....
I'm sorry but Robin Hood already has that job.
Steve
Candle burns its brightest in the dark
the term "Electronic-American"
..and perfectly illustrates one of the class separation problems that America has. When you differentiate yourself as a [Something]-American you're inventing a category to place yourself in.
Italian, African, Indonesian, Chinese, British, French, Spanish, whatever - your ancestor's country of origin shouldn't make a damned bit of difference. The term "American" ought to be perfectly acceptable - even for electronic lifeforms. Classification of physical nature should be separate from nationality. For example:
"Yes, I'm an Electronic-American" - Bad.
- vs -
"Yes, I'm an American AI" - Good.
(As someone who wasn't born in the US, is now an American but who's physical appearance could indicate otherwise - this topic has always annoyed me. I chose to live in this country, dammit, stop putting me in a box).
Ah, now I get it. Diebold didn't fake any election results, the machines were just exercising their right to vote. That's okay then.
So are the thoughts of Electronic Americans covered by the DMCA?
Expert in software patents or patent law? Contribute to the ESP wiki!
Do you have stairs in your house?
To protect the people of earth, from the horrible secret of space...
Any spoon would be too big.
By "robot" you mean a mechanical automaton, which may or may not be self aware. I.E. not a piloted humanoid shaped vehicle.
Evangelion
analsis: "robots", I.E. the Eva's, are cloned alien lifeforms intragrated with human tech that are piloted by angst-y juvinile humans.
status: no robots
RahXephon
analsis: same as above, but with a better storyline (and characters you don't want to see killed)
status: as series' north american release is incomplete and I haven been able to see it all robots are unconfirmed at this time
Macross/Southern Cross/Mospedia (Robotech)
analsis: signature mecha are piloted transforming aircraft/tanks/motorcycles, on the other hand there are several true robots as mobile vending machines, payphones, and photomachines (Macross) as well as police support units (Southern Cross)
status: some robots, but not as signature mecha
Gundam
analsis: same as above, signature mecha are piloted vehicles, also as above, there are some true robots such as Haro (U.C. Gundam, Gundam SeeD) or the Virgo (Gundam Wing)
status: some robots but none as signature mecha
Start: geek_rant
The japanese are carful do diferentate between what a "robot" is and is not. They use the term "mecha" (and for gods sake don't call anything a "mech" unless it's a battlemech from the mechwarrior line) to describe just about anything mechanical including robots, but show better judgement on using "robot" than lazy minded americans.
End: geek_rant
You assume democracy will hold...
There's no guarantee anywhere that says democracy has to last longer than say 500 years before imploding into some kind of corporatism.
...but when can I get my Linux powered APU?
I hope they dont swear allegiance to Darl.
Again, they do have massive unemployment. Much as the IT workers in this country found out, if you can't find work at the rate you previously got, you may have to consider lower rates.
It is difficult to simultaneously have a high unemployment rate and unaffordable labor. It is a supply and demand situation.
The world will never need more than 5 robots.
Dude. This guy got modded up for essentially saying "I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords."
Of industrial robots, I know that KUKA uses Windows 95, and now Windows XP in their robot controllers.
At one time ABB also used windows in what they called the "top hat", which was little more than an industrial Win 95 laptop supported above the controller. I am not sure if their new products have changed.
The third major player is Fanuc. I worked for these guys for a little over 4 years. They use thier own OS.
Working with the Windows-based robots has had some issues (BSOD, etc.), and I think it would be nice to have some of these running Linux. All the Win portion is used for is/was the GUI, anyway, so the real path execution is handled separately. Perhaps some of the industry heavies are considering Linux already...
It's also not as simple to say that all these people will be out on their keister, except for the one repair guy. History shows that mechanization and boosts in productivity benefit everyone, starting with the use of agricultural machinery to get people out of the fields. Yes, in the short term jobs are displaced, but the increase in productivity means that fewer people are needed to generate one commodity, and so that the remainder are free to open up new lines of business and create new services and commodities. There will always be a group of obselete workers, but I would take issue with anyone who says artificially protecting their jobs is for the greater good.
The worst case, unfortunately, is that if you artifiically protect certain jobs, they will be moved overseas to where those protections don't apply. In the short term, those workers keep their jobs, but in the long term, the economy of your nation is put at a disadvantage from your neighboors, and that hurts everyone.
Is there some sort of auto comments generator that automatically generates comments on Slashdot?
How about a challenge - can anyone make a robot that produces, without hardcoded input, a +5 comment?
Now, I am not talking that Linux has to be in control of the robot. In industrial robots, Windows is often just used as the 'front end' GUI for the operators and technicians. KUKA and ABB both use Windows for this. Why can they not use Linux instead? It is certainly a very capable OS for a GUI system that needs to communicate TCP/IP to something like VxWorks (on the robot control end).
I think that the lure and attraction of a royalty-free OS would have had industrial manufacturers already on Linux. Corporate inertia is what is really driving the Windows GUI on industrial robots.
You know, the citizens can elect representatives that redistribute wealth to the people from those who own the robots.....
Wake up and smell the capitalism people!
This system already exists, YOU ARE THE ROBOTS.
A programmer only costs maybe $75,000 a year to maintain, a office manager bot maybe $50,000 a year, a hamburger maker bot will run with only $20,000 maintainence.
LABOR IS A COMMODITY.
Do you think the owners care if they are paying to develop and maintain a robot or just paying for a human laborer, it's all the same to them!
On the other hand, as miners in a long family of miners, we are concerned at the loss of mining jobs. That concern is tempered by the lack of participation I see from other miners when it comes to being politically active. It's hard to keep the fight for rights up when you're alone. And that apathy is exactly why groups get BOHICA'd. Soon we'll have UAV's flying aeromag and other airborne geophysical surveys, which is fine by me, considering the prohibitive cost with the conventional method.
Alaska Village invited to test cheap, clean nuclear power
I think it was about 1997 that a bunch of us at NASA started replacing VxWorks systems on robots such as the Marsokhod and Nomad with Linux systems. Much more pleasant to develope Linux based systems. Then there was the time we were forced to cope with a WinNT box on Nomad when it went to Chile. Bad memories.
I for one welcome our new robot overlords!
(comeon - the title was asking for it)
At the lab where I'm working, we've been using Linux robots (ActivMedia Pioneer 2) for years. Linux actually came pre-installed on them (the only option). We've even been developing a bunch of Linux tools for robots.
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
How long before innovation that can take the role of a worker in a labor-shortage environment ends up being used to replace real people in a labor-glutted environment?
That's not a technical problem, it's a societal problem: the notion that you are a bad person if you don't work needs to change. A large fraction of the population will simply have to get money from "the government" and "other people's taxes" since they will have no useful skills that other people would be willing to pay them for.
I mean, what's the alternative? Smash all machines in an attempt to create work artificially? You might as well go to work crushing rocks or do something similarly meaningless. Or do you propose that everybody who doesn't have a useful skill just starve to death?
If a robot can build another robot, then all it wouldn't really be worth much for a select few to keep the robots to themselves. When the day comes when robots can do all our work for us, then they'd obviously be complicated enough to repair themselves and create new copies. If there are more robots than are needed in the world, and robots can be produced, effectively, for nothing, then there's no economic motication for hording all these 'bots for oneself.
What if some benevolent person bought a robot and, after making sure it was legal to change it's software, commanded it to work for the betterment of humanity, creating more and more copies of itself. Perhaps the benevolent person could create a limited company as a front. That way the robot could do services, and deposit money in a bank account, and buy material, even if it has no rights itself.
There are problems with a world dependant on robots (Issac Asimov delved a lot into that subject), but if the robots are truly as advanced as we are, then I doubt there would be much of an economic problem.
The blue-collar worker won't be eliminated. Instead robots will make particularly repetitive and simple jobs redundant. With the money that the company saves by using robots they can employ former blue-collar workers to do jobs that only humans can do, jobs that actually require human intelligence and creativity.
so with Linux robots making cars, I can expect to be driving via a command line interface instead of a steering wheel in the future? ignition left right accelerate break On the other hand, it might be cool to be able to write shell scripts. if $CAR $== $POLICE then pullover; else accelerate; fi
LOL.a te/sit e/robotvision.htm
Not for another 5-7 years imho, robots are still quite costly. Sony has two robots and they bought sell quite horribly (compared to the rest of there product line). Again, it'll be a few years until robots become practicaly, here's my expirements with my mindstorm kit.
http://pluto.phpwebhosting.com/~akbara/priv
AMF built a hard-automation hamburger stand in the 1960s. It had huge capacity but was inflexible. The test location was outside some big industrial plant where most of the day's business was in a single half hour period.
Airline meals are sometimes assembled on conveyor lines by industrial robots.
But illegal immigrants are so cheap.
I got a score five. But this is my favorite post.
The Honda Asimo robot at this stage is quite old... search for "Sony SDR 4x" for one of the leading-edge humanoid robots in development (although, unlike Asimo, the SDR is not (yet?) in production (like the AIBO was, it's currently a toy for Sony's engineers :) ) (SDR = Sony Dream Robot))
:) )
Features:
2x smaller than Asimo
AWESOME vision system (it creates 3d occupancy grids using binocular vision)
in general, better actuators and better navigation
it can get up from a lying down position!!!
(note: in no way am i saying that "sony is better than honda" or any such nonsense. but if you'd see one of these things, you'd understand why i think they're so cool compared to "grandpa" Asimo
Marshall Brain wrote about this in his online novel Manna. The later chapters concerning the "Australia Project" bear a striking resemblance to the never-implemented 1930s-era theory of Technocracy (The actual main Technocracy site is rather ill-organized).
In addition to the Linux Devices guide, Paul Baron spent some time shooting 61 pictures during the 2003 International Robot Exposition in Tokyo about two weeks ago. (Warning: navigation is somewhat difficult; the screen is getting refresh when you just want to scroll). Here is a link to a shorter selection. And for more information about Linux-based robots, you can take a peek at a former overview, "Real-Time Linux Robots Are Coming."
They should just settle with robots on wheels with a really stable body (think R2D2) and make them use the elevators.
Going up stairs at 0.00000001 mph is pointless anyway.
Will code a sig generator for food
Because I, for one, welcome our new robotic overlords.
Or was that too obvious?
`/\/\
(^.^)
(")(")
not quite an analog pussy, just a cat that plays with vinyl
Not with the Bots themselves, but with the way they (or anything Linux) can be interfaced into current CMMS and CAD/CAM architectures.
I've worked with programming and networking ASEA/ABB and Fanuc industrial bots in the automotive industry for years, and getting a Linux-based robot language to run seamlessly with the dominant Windows-based platforms like Wonderware, Rockwell, MP2, Alta, or Visual Plant is a real API challenge(not to mention the political battle with the bean-counters and corporate IT hacks).
It wouldn't surprise me if the Japanese do it first, given their coporate technical xenophobia. They'd rather spend a mint on a domestic solution than see an Allen-Bradley or Siemens logo in their plants.
I'd love to see it, but probably not in my ever-shrinking lifetime.
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
robots running linux are nothing new.
- 09 -10.png
http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/robotman.1999
Well - I guess not only the robotics and mechanics industry is urging for cheaper operating systems... nowadays Linux is being implemented in smart-phones aswell as digital video broadcast receivers...
Cheers, christoph
PS: as I said, we had that Linux 3G phone newsitem some days ago...
robots will be twice as powerful, ten thousand times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them.
You can't handle the truth.
Didn't Marx specify that communism would not work until technology was to a point that people's basic needs could be cheaply met? Didn't he warn Lenin that Russia could not sustain a communism unless Western Europe were also involved?
Robotic labour is exactly what we need if we want communism. The only way we can save mankind from the tyrrany of greed is if labour is optional.
A lot of posters are pointing out that robots won't replace all labour but leave just a few highly qualified positions, how will we get those people to work in a communism? Well tell me this: how many /. readers would be willing to tinker with robots for free if they didn't have to worry about a job? At least as many who'd tinker with pure software, I think. Science fiction will be the propaganda of the revolution.
Athens produced so much philosophy and science because slaves gave the citizens lots of time to sit around and think. If we have robot slaves, we'll also have lots of time to sit around. A high-technology communism would cause an explosion in philosophy, art, science, and open source code. :)
Since we now know that centrally planned economies are unable to adequately allocate resources (this is why the USSR fell -- it had nothing to do with socialism), guaranteed income to citizens to be spent on the free market is the best implementation of a future communism.
I, for one, welcome our robot slaves.
So Honda is now interested in robots because they didn't outsource the manufacture of their production line robots, right? As a requirement of their core business, the companies has been forced to become experts at what they now see as their future business. If that's not a brilliant argument against outsourcing, I don't know what is.
Japan's retirement problem is certainly worse than the rest of the First World's, however the problem of increased retirement is epidemic. Different countries have different solutions:
Japan: build robots.
United States: outsource to the Third World.
Canada: bring the Third World to us (via immigration).
Although many First World countries would benefit from Canada's approach, very few are so non-xenophobic and have a culture capable of integrating so many immigrants. The US perhaps comes close, but since manufacturing jobs can be exported (unlike Canada's resource jobs), and the US is run by corporations only interested in short-term gain, they're fucked.
Japan's racism is the real reason they must turn to robots, not their demographics.
Only post that isn't just slobbering cheering for Linux. I think this is very valid as my own embedded work has been either VxWorks or QNX Neutrino - Both extremely proven and capable systems. The idea of using Linux just seems ridiculous.
Mmmmm... robot porn.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Back when I worked at McDonalds (I quit in 1995) we already had a robot to fill the fry baskets, we just took a basket off the machine, and put it in the fryer. Nearly all McDonalds have this machine now.
This machine is actualy a spinoff from the fully robotic fryer. McDonalds had a fryer delivered that you poured froozen frys in one end, and out the other came fully cooked frys. That machine was too expensive for most stores to justify purchasing, (at current wages anyway...) but the figgured they could make the basket filler a seperate machine for a reasonable price and save come labor there. Eventially all stores will have the full robot, but not until prices come down a little more.
The fryer will come before the robotic grill, because while either can be done, the fryer is much more dangerious. More serious burns result from accidewnts involving the fryer than the grill. However McDonalds can't figgure out how to make money putting the robotic fryer in each resteraunt. (higher prices won't sell in thie buisness)
Will all the displaced workers sing 'me and my buddy' about the robots?