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Interview with Peter Jackson on LoTR Bloopers
erth writes "Newsweek has an interview with Peter Jackson asking him what he thinks about some of the most famous and/or obvious bloopers in the LoTR series. Moviemistakes.com has more Fellowhip of the Ring, The Two Towers, and Return of the King bloopers as well for your snickering pleasure." I just wanted to give my props to Jackson and all- we took off early yesterday to see the final film. It was everything I hoped for... except for the bits that I expect I'll have to wait for the extended edition DVD to see. And I was to busy grinning ear to ear to notice any serious bloopers.
Moviemistakes.com has more Fellowhip of the Ring That's gotta be a deliberate mistake.
aterr - an open source threaded discussion board.
No blooper is as big as PJ being denied an Oscar these last 2 years.
If he doesn't get it this year the Oscars will become irrelevant. It's just that obvious.
Blearf. Blearf, I say.
Is this not a dupe!
Everyone that disagrees with me is a paid shill
"My server is getting quite overloaded at the moment due to lots of publicity (more than quadruple my usual traffic), resulting in access problems and errors for a lot of people. I'm very sorry for the inconvenience, and I'm working on improvements - if you're having trouble checking out the site, please visit again soon when everything should be back to full working order. Thanks..."
That didn't last long, now did it?
Pretty much all of the children of Rohan and Gondor and the Shire look like the offspring Peter Jackson.
Coincidence, OR FATE!???
"My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
My server is getting quite overloaded at the moment due to lots of publicity (more than quadruple my usual traffic), resulting in access problems and errors for a lot of people. I'm very sorry for the inconvenience, and I'm working on improvements - if you're having trouble checking out the site, please visit again soon when everything should be back to full working order. Thanks...
Damn dude, what can I say.
I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
I'm pretty sure that the book has far fewer mistakes, as far as Tolkien could be concerned, so just go read that. I'm doing just fine with paper and ink.
The Hobbit was the first book I read and still my favorite. They say that he wants to use some of the same actors, too. All in all, it gives us something to look forward to.
Here is more info:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/3977.html
Usurper_ii
Ron Paul
Didn't you see the text scroll on the screen saying "If you want to know what happens, read the book"? :)
Actually, when I saw it last night, the movie cut out right when Aragorn faced off against a troll in front of the Black Gate. After about 20 minutes and a theater employee apologizing, it came back on.
"My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
unless i'm mistaken, the picture accompanying the article is of a regular orc, not an uruk-hai. (the caption reads 'Why are tough Uruk-hai KO'd by mere rocks?')
wow, i'm a nerd.
Fitting punishment for their heresy. We all know there can be no "flaws" in these holy movies. The silencing of this instigator is a victory for Truth and Justice everywhere.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
This has been one of the best book to movie conversions I have seen. Especially considering that this is an incredibly difficult work to start with. The things that were removed wihtout shame (poetry), combined (multitudes of side characters) and left out intentionally, but with a sidelong glance (Tom Bombadill alone causes endless arguments because not enough detail is in the *books* to make a case for what he is supposed to represent. However, one of his poems does sneak into the second movie, although recited by Treebeard) show the dedication put into this movie. It would have been so easy to coast on the later movies (production costs were recovered from the first movie alone), but these are not the products of coasting, but of true affection for the grand story - the story that launched a thousand imitating "great arc fantasy" novels.
Sig under construction since 1998.
I don't know why I'm responding to such an obvious troll, but here goes.
Gandalf cannot touch the ring or he will be corrupted by it. The ring would use gandalf's power against everyone and very bad things would ensue. The reason that Frodo is able to hold the ring and not instantly turn bad is because hobbits have no inherent powers of their own, also, hobbits seem to be more resistant to the rings corrupting influence. All things that you would know if you had ever read the books.
Google caches for the MovieMistakes.com stuff:
Fellowship of the Ring
The Two Towers
Sorry, Return of the King isn't cached yet...
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Can we have an interview with CmdrTaco on Slashdot Bloopers? Same format - list out all the dupes on slashdot in the past 5-6 years, and give Rob a good way to tell us why he doesn't read his own website. ;-)
oops, I goofed, that's a link to the first movie
:-)
use this one instead
Mods: please mod parent down, and this up.
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
I have read lots of Tolkien, much of what is in the 12 books published by his son. His works are so good because everything makes sense, don't judge the books by the movies. Riding an eagle to mount doom is mentioned a lot though. You have to remember that those mountains were inhabited, and a huge eagle would be easy to spot (and shoot down). In some of the first drafts of ROTK more than one eagle went to mount doom to rescue Frodo, but some were actually shot down by the evil-doers that were still around after the destruction of the ring. We can only assume it would have been even harder while the ring was still "alive".
And I was to busy grinning ear to ear to notice any serious bloopers.
and apparently too busy to edit your comment.
:) i kid because i love.
props n. colloq. -- Props is a shortening of propers, itself a colloquialism implying "proper respect". Originated in African-American vernacular (Early 90s). No longer a part of the vernacular, as African-Americans stop using slang as soon as we hear white people using it. Ex. You get mad props for that.
El riesgo vive siempre!
Frink: Yes, over here, m-hay, m-haven... in episode BF12, you were battling Barbarians while riding a winged apoluser yet in the very next scene my dear, you're clearly atop a winged arabian! Please do explain it!
Lucy Lawless: Uh, yeah, well whenever you notice something like that.. a wizard did it!
Frink: Yes, alright, yes, in episode AG04..
Lucy Lawless: Wizard!
Frink: Oh for glaven out loud..
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
They missed my two faovirtes! In FOTR when Sauraman is standing on top of Isengard before the avalanche on Caradhras you can clearly see he has a big bandage on the middle finger of his left hand, he got his hand slammed in a door but I guess they forgot he had it! Then in TTT when the riders of Rohan come to the orc incampment when the horse rears up and pippen is about to get hit by the hooves his arms are kinda like this \/ but then when he roles away they are tied again!
A little off-topic... but worthed to /. readers, a mature Open Source game based on Tolkien's
world: Troubles of Middle-Eearth.
ToME has been improved over several years. It is based on the venerable
Angband
rogue-like game. There's a lot of Angband variants. There's even
a Multiplayer
ToME in development.
:-) Do not forget to set graphics "on"... even if they're not that
good.
ToME is great for being very faithful and compliant to Tolkien's world. Ok, maybe it's not Middle-Earth Online, but it's free and honestly, this game is freaking addictive !
Animoog.org
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just completely clueless. I'll assume it's the latter.
1.) LOTR is not set upon this earth. It is set in a world similar to ours in many ways. Nonetheless, the telltale absence of well... pretty much everything in LOTR except Humans would be an excelent indication that Tolkin intended his world to be seperate from ours in its history.
2.) The Gandalf/Eagle comment is almost below responding to, but here ya go. Three reasons, first because Mordor is infested with all kinds of creapy crawlies, some of them capable of flight (did you watch the 2nd movie?). This would hamper matters. Secondly, because Gandalf would be corrupted by the ring. Thirdly because this would remove one of the fundamental points of the book/movie. To paralell, why couldn't the Rebels simply carpet nuke the death star into scrap? What... they have light speed travel but no nuclear weapons?
You're basicly objecting to plot holes present in what is universaly reguarded as one of the greatest peices of literature created in the modern age. Perhaps you should lower your standards just a little.
Killfile(TGK)
No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
Middle Earth is a past earth, in the same way that Beowulf is a past earth, or The Illiad is a past earth. That was Tolkein's intention.
And, there was much more to Gandalf's reluctance to touch the ring. Remember, Gandalf was no more human than Sauron or the Balrog were human -- he was an immortal. He was also part of the last song; it was impossible for him to fight directly against Sauron. He moved, he shaped, he cajoled, he prodded, but he took no direct action. Ever. That was the fate laid out for him at the dawn of the world.
Well, except against the Balrog. I guess Immortal Beings Created at the Dawn of Time can fight each other directly.
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
Yet on the DVD he says "I don't know what people are talking about" - and it doesn't sound like he is kidding, simply being serious??
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Yes. It's supposed to occur in our "prehistory".
A lot of people seem to ask this.
The short answer is obviously "because then there's no story". Even if this is the only answer, it doesn't have to be an issue. For example, a lot of people enjoyed the first Matrix movie, even though its premise violates physical laws (since human bodies cannot generate more energy than is put into them).
However, there are perfectly reasonable justifications for why the "just fly an Eagle into Mordor" isn't going to work.
In your scenario, Gandalf flies an Eagle over Mount Doom and drops the Ring in. If you recall, Gandalf was unwilling to even touch the Ring in the first movie because he felt he would be unable to resist the temptation to use it. He felt that hobbits in general and Frodo in particular would be better able to resist the temptation. This is because they have very little ambition or desire for power, as well as having relatively little innate power.
However, even Frodo, when it came down to it, was incapable of throwing the Ring into the fire! Gandalf would have been even more unable to.
What would probably happen in your scenario, given how Tolkien has set up the story, is Gandalf would take the Ring, mount the Eagle, make it most of the way to Mount Doom, and say "Forget this throwing away business, you can all call me Lord Gandalf now." There is no way he (or anyone else, I would argue [except perhaps Bombadil]) would be capable of dropping it in.
Another difficulty with the Eagle scenario is that it's extremely blatant. There is no secrecy possible. This means Sauron would have perceived it immediately. His significant psychic/spiritual power would instantly been focused on preventing the destruction of the Ring, either by destroying, cowing, or deceiving the bearer.
These first points are derivable from the movies alone. The following one requires knowledge of the books.
The (giant) Eagles are not at the command of anyone in Middle-Earth. They are the servants of Manwe, who in Tolkien's legendarium is the head Vala (arch-angel kind of figures), the ruler of Middle-Earth. The Valar felt that defeating Sauron was the responsibility of the peoples of Middle-Earth themselves. They sent help in the form of the Wizards (including Gandalf and Saruman), but even they were not supposed to act directly, but only advise, guide, and prompt. So while it's acceptable for the Eagles (as Manwe's representatives) to assist the effort against Sauron in minor ways, they cannot act more directly.
Do not speak unless you can improve on the silence.
"And I was to busy grinning ear to ear to notice any serious bloopers." Anyone else out there catch themselves grinning like an idiot in the dark during these movies? I know I did. I was worried when I heard they were being made that they couldn't live up to the material, but Mr. Jackson did himself proud.
The pages states the following;
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - 29 mistakes
Revealing: In the first scene in Edoras (the capital city of Rohan). The first pan over Edoras: You can see the pan is shown in reverse, with the smoke going into the chimney and the fire at the end is burning backwards. The flags are fluttering oddly as well.
Revealing: When Theoden is talking to Eowyn before he dies one can see that he is wearing contact lenses.
Factual error: Hobbits can't grow beards, yet Samwise Gamgee has stubble in most of his close-ups in Return Of The King. Even if they could grow beards, it seems unlikely they would be in a position to be shaving on that journey.
Continuity: In one of the final scenes of the movie, Frodo is writing in the book "There and Back Again," adding his own story. As he is finishing, he clutches the wound he received from one of the Nazgul in "The Fellowship of the Ring." In the hand that he uses clutch the wound, he still holds the quill pen. At the same time, Sam is entering Bag-End. When the camera angle changes, Frodo is still clutching the wound, but the pen has found its way into the ink jar.
Audio problem: In the scene where Gandalf enters the chambers of Gondor to speak with the Steward of the throne, the sound of his staff striking the floor matches the action in sporadic patches only. In the shot where he departs, that specific sound is consistent.
Continuity: When Gollum drops the lembas from the ridge, you see the leaves it was wrapped in fluttering away, and the wafers fall roughly straight down. However, when Sam finds it later, the lembas is still mostly wrapped in the leaves, with only a few morsels broken off and laying around unwrapped.
Revealing: In the scene where the paciderm animals of Mordor are introduced in the battle, there's a shot that pans the front of the line of them. One animal has wood connecting its larger tusks, complete with barbs jutting out from the wood. As the orcs flee to regroup behind the animals, several run through the contraption unharmed.
Continuity: In the scene where Frodo is helped by Galadriel in Shelob's lair (in the "dream sequence") he lays on the ground. In his hair on HIS right side (viewers' left) is what appears to be some clovers or leaves or grass. The camera cuts to Galadriel then back to Frodo, the thing in his hair is gone. The camera cuts to her again and back to Frodo, the thing is back in his hair.
Continuity: In the scene where Frodo is tied up in the Tower, part of his face and hair is partly covered in spider webbing - the only opening is his face where Sam parted it to see that he had "died". After a few scenes of orcs, the next shot shows that Frodo has clean hair/face and his hands are still tied up.
Continuity: When Gandalf enters the castle of Rohan, the shot of his back shows him holding his staff in a vertical position. When the shot turns to his front, he is holding his staff in an horizontal position. The shot turns to his back, and the staff is again in the vertical position. Then the shot turns again to his front, showing his staff in a horizontal position.
Continuity: The scene where Pippin and Gandalf are talking about "the end" in Minas Tirith, during the battle of Pelenor fields. In one close-up shot, Gandalf's sword blade is shiny and silver. In the next shot, it's coated in black orc blood, then in the next shot, it's silver again.
Continuity: In the scene where Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli enter the cave where the dead army resides, Aragorn pulls a torch seemingly from nowhere (especially interesting considering that his horse, and consequently all supplies, have run off in the scene before).
Continuity: When Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf, Gimli etc, ride up to the gates of Mordor, the main characters go up to the gate on their own to demand it opens. The trails the horses leave on the way towards the gate are different to those that you see in the shot when they retreat after the gate ha
Wait a minute. I got it. You could play with your magic nose goblins.
When Aragorn finds the army of the dead, they look like the ghosts of soldiers. But when they attack Sauron's army at Pellenor Fields/Minas Tirith, they look like radioactive scrubbing bubbles.
Here's what the Prologue to The Lord of the Rings says:
Tolkien is clearly saying that a lot has changed since the Third Age, but Middle-Earth is our world.
More discussion of this question can be found here.
Do not speak unless you can improve on the silence.
He says "CUT" the actors take their positions again, he fines the one that moved and they re-shoot it. You know, the stuff that directors do. Or are you saying that directors have no controll over what goes onto the film? That they just setup the camera and then a bunch of stuff happens?
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
I noticed last night that Frodo seemed to have all of his fingers when he was hugging everyone goodbye at the harbor...
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Linguistically you are correct. Being banished on pain of death means that if you return, the punishment is death.
/. and didn't read (watch) the article (film/book) they were commenting upon...
Presumably the commenters thought they were on
Global symbol "$deity" requires explicit package name at line 2. - If only $scripture started "use strict;"
now that I think about it, there is an inherent flaw in this line of reasoning. Think about it: the Ring corrupted Smeagol almost immediately to kill Deagol. This says that hobbits are not all created equal wrt to ring resistance, and therefore Gandalf letting Frodo inherit the ring was a fundamentally dangerous thing to do, with frodo being Bilbo's cousin being his only reference point of his resistiveness, even though it turned out alright in the end.
NO CARRIER
Anyone else notice when Sam and Froto are running out of the cave being chased by a river of lava was a very cliche shot?
It's almost like PJ took stock footage of people running out of a cave, added some lava, and threw Rudy and Elijah in front of a blue screen.
I thought i was watching a classic giant bug movie.
There's one little girl (the really cute one from the Shire, when Bilbo's telling his story) who appears in Helm's Deep and in Minis Tirith too! ~Berj
I can't believe I'm replying to this. I'm such a geek.
Sigh.
Linux IT Consulting and Domino Development in Michigan
I recall hearing from a couple of sources that Tolkien actually did intend for Middle-Earth to be the same earth that we stand on right now. After all, he was trying to provide a mythology for the Britons, whom he felt did not have a grand mythology in the same way as the Norse or the Romans. The only source that I can find at the moment is from here, but it does contain the following:
I'm sure that I can dig up more sources from "Letters of J.R. Tolkien" or other books should you require more evidence.
You're right that there aren't any elves, Maiar, or Valar around nowadays, but remember that they all reside in Valinor now, beyond the reaches of men. Sauron was defeated, Saruman's spirit was blown away by the wind from the west, and who knows what happened to the Ents, Trolls, and Orcs. The Fourth Age was the Age of Man, and here we still live.
No, of course it's not real, but it's still a wonderful fantasy - far beyond anything the movies showed you. My fellow readers of The Simarillion and The Bible would understand what I'm talking about when I say how much Tolkien's work paralleled Biblical creation.
The Fellowship of the Ring
The Two Towers
Unfortunately there is no cache of the Return of the King.
You and the other 10 art majors of the world can hate the movie. It looks like the rest of us that watch movies for enjoyment really liked the movies.
As for this not being award material, do you think movies like Cold Mountain and Mystic River are?
That would only be a flaw if Gandalf had an alternative option that wasn't "fundamentally dangerous". Sometimes, you just have to go with the least bad of the available options.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
And by the time they can get together an execution, Theoden has been reawakened by Gandalf. What are you expecting here? That a death sentence means everyone with a sword is supposed to jump at Eomer on sight, risking immediate death themselves rather pause to get organized and risk letting him live another 15 minutes? That a King has less power to commute the sentence his servant passed than a modern day president? That no one in Rohan has noticed that this death sentence didn't come from the king but that slimy guy who's been pushing everyone around, and from what they know of Eomer, he's a stand-up guy?
Who is John Cabal?
And I'm not sure why I'm responding to an AC but here we go.
Actually Gandalf can and did touch the ring in the beginning of FOTR. In order to determine that Bilbo's ring was the one, Gandalf cast it into a fire. He then retreived the ring and read the famous inscription in the mordor language...
Saw the latest movie yesterday and was simply blown away. The thread here doesn't do the movie justice, because it just rivets you to your seat for three hours of amazing stroytelling. And I almost jumped out of my seat at one point during the big battle, which is something I never feel during movies.
This movie should win the Academy Award for best picture, btu given the track record of the Oscars being given to touch feely Hollywood schmaltz, I wouldn't get your hopes up.
spoiler alert
It fun for movie geeks to spot the bloopers in movies, but how about if we look at this movie from the perspective of somebody who isn't looking for bloopers? Which parts of the movie seem odd and out of place? For me, the only disappointing scene in Return of the King is the scene where Frodo and Sam flee the volcano and get stuck in the middle of a lava field. OK, so that was really dramatic, but could it have been plotted and filmed in a more believable manner?
It was brilliant to start out the movie with a flashback to how Gollum first came into contact with the ring.
..a few years ago, I got too annoyed at seeing stupid things posted that half the time weren't even mistakes in the movie, just things that the submitter thought was a mistake.
Plus in some instances it reduced my enjoyment of the film to have the stuff pointed out, where I might not have noticed it otherwise.
So just a small warning.
Whether you hold it on a stick, slip it on your pocket, or hang it on a chain around your neck, you still possess it. The ring is not a sci-fi device which corrupts you physically by physical contact. It's a mystical device which corrupts you spiritually. The more you think of it as your own, the more you will belong to it. This is why gollum's mind continued to be poisoned by it for all those years after Bilbo took it away from him.
All the movie titles from one of the spoof trailers:
2001-The Fellowship of the Ring
2002-The Two Towers
2003-The Third One
2004-Episode I - The Hobbit
2005-FotR Special Edition
2006-Book of Lost Tales
2007-Scribbles in Tolkien's Math Book
2008-Dude, Where's my Ring?
2009-What Hobbits Want
2010-Bilbo Brockovich
2011-All the Pretty Hobbits
2012-O, Bilbo, Where art Thou?
2013-Crouching Gollum, Hidden Balrog
2014-Orc by Orcwest
(Lost by my brain, but found again here.)
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
But he could carry frodo with him on the eagle...
Even if Sauron sees him, the eagles are still faster than the nazgul...
You know, YOU cant give a good answer because Tolkien himself admitted that he used the eagles as Deus ex Machina.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Sometimes, you just have to go with the least bad of the available options.
Gee, sounds like a US Presidential election!
MORTAR COMBAT!
When Gollum falls into the Cracks of Doom, he actually appears to still be alive even as he sinks below the surface. If he had actually fallen into liquid hot mag-ma he would have burst into flame long before hitting the surface. I found that very distracting.
Okay, then, the argument still stands. Why didn't Gandalf slap Frodo on the back of one of the eagles and have him drop the ring into the volcano? It would've been a better move than hooking him up with some ex-noble who went off to live in the woods and have him slowly drag his rear through the most dangerous terrain in all of Middle Earth.
The answer, of course, is that LotR is an epic -- a story. The most tactically wise move wasn't the most appropriate move to the tale of growth and struggle against adversity that Tolkein wanted to tell. (Of course, neither's rescuing the heroes with a bunch feathered deus ex machinas but that's another argument for another time).
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I disagree with that, although I didn't like his LOTR movies either. But some of his older work is more touching, like Meet the Feebles.
Yes, I am a nerd.
P.S. The origin of trolls is not clear. What Treebeard says is what Treebeard knows, not absolute fact. Tolkien puts forth many theories but does not claim one is true. One story involves Maia (like balrogs, but not spirits of fire) taking on an orc-like form when entering earth to command armies of orcs. They all eventually died in battle with the elves, but had crossbread with orcs, creating trolls.
Why do you think Smeagol was a hobbit?
As far as I remember Smeagol was one of the "river folk" which were "not so different from hobbits".
However, it does seem weird that it corrupted Smeagol so fast. There was an implication that the corrupting effects were stronger when Frodo carried it because Sauron was returning. Bilbo was not corrupted though he had it for decades, but it took under 13 months for Frodo to become corrupted.
If that were the case, then how did the eagles get there to save Frodo and Sam? It's inconsistent.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Fellowship, p12. (Concerning Hobbits): ... The Stoors lingered long by the banks of the Great River Anduin, and were less shy of Men.
Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somwhat different breeds: Harfoot, Stoors, and Fallohides.
Return, p414. (Appendix F):
Footnote 1: The Stoors of the Angle, who returned to Wilderland, had already adopted the Common Speech; but Deagol and Smeagol are names in the Mannish language of the region near the Gladden.
Haven't seen the movie yet, but from the book...
Sauron was dead...except that part of him still existed within the ring...so he wasn't in full physical form where he could forge another ring.
Also, maybe those rings aren't easy to make, maybe he couldn't just have his Orc army go to Wal-Mart for ring parts. This makes sense, since Mordor was considered abandonded for a long time, so Wal-Mart probably moved out...
Also, maybe Sauron's 'Red Eye' form was good for scaring the bajeezus out of hobbits but not so good for making things out of gold and souls....
Since you're answering questions, do you know what happened to the entwives? I thought the description of trolls as twisted entwives made a lot of sense, since they're missing and all.
-Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
Sauron - his finger was cut off
Isildur - killed
Deagol - killed
Smeagol - would have never left it, if it didn't leave him
Bilbo - exceptional, he passed it on to Frodo
Frodo - like Sauron, he only parted with the ring at the same time as his finger
Other than Bilbo, everybody held on dearly. Even Frodo couldn't complete his task! Tolkien says in the end, both Frodo and Gollum failed. I wonder if the movie does a good enough job describing the nature of the ring. Isildur, Smeagol/Gollum, and Bilbo also described it as precious. I guess in the end, I can only say if someone held it on the end of a stick, they would be a nervous wreck, expecting it to fall off or be stolen. They probably feel that way even when holding it. Hope that helps.
Its a big trilogy
To my understanding (from the extended DVDs), so big, that it took three completely separate locations for filming (aside from the studio sets), combining to stretch out over 14 months. For a single person to (follow me here), direct this massive undertaking, and painstakingly boil it down the the parts that matter requires great directing skills.
It has very nice CG
For which the pencil-to-paper decision making goes all the way back to 1997. Again, Jackson was the goto guy that approved this stuff. For someone to put together a team (Weta) that brought about the Ents (prior to which, few artists were able to render to any likeable levels), and the unbelievably detailed Lothlorien, again, takes great directing skills.
Theme music is great
Well, it didn't come off of a CD. Again, much time was spent by (of all people) Jackson, in choosing the music and directing its specifics with RE to the movie.
But is this worthy of a "Best Director" award?
I can't think of a single movie made in the last decade that is as massive an undertaking as LOTR was. Jackson was the man that directed all of it. Even if you don't appreciate things like its character development, or the music, for one person to be the nexus for this creation, IMO (and clearly, many other lowbrow movie fans), certainly demands recognition.
Q: What do you think about American Culture?
A: I think it's a good idea.
(adapted from Gandhi)
** SPOILERS ** obviously
Since it's reasonable on topic, I'd like to voice my thoughts on the Return of the King.
I walked in with advance warning that right about the point where you think the movie is finished, be prepared for another 20 minutes of wrap-up. Even knowing this, I was totally unprepared for the lame and completely unncessary scenes at the end and honestly it ruined the experience for me.
First of all...okay, Frodo and Sam are good friends, but could Peter Jackson have made it any more homosexual? The audience where I watched kept laughing every time there was a scene with Frodo and Sam all dewy-eyed staring at each other with sappy music. I swear for a split second everyone thought Frodo was going to kiss Sam on the lips as they said goodbye at the boat.
Second, after blowing our load at the battle of the black gate, all everyone wants to do is roll over and go to sleep. I don't know if my experience was the same as everyone else's but for the next twenty minutes I witnessed the combined figiting of 300+ people, standing up, then sitting back down, murmuring, sighing loudly, leaving, groaning...it was pretty damn distracting and unpleasant.
Now, giving that this movie is aimed at the masses and not particularly at die-hard LOTR fans (given that the plot was changes to give it more mainstream appeal), why in God's name would Peter Jackson decide to throw in all this extra crap at the end which a) pissed off real fans because it wasn't the Scourging b) pissed off mainstream fans because it was irrelavant crap.
Everyone I talked to was in agreement that the movie should have ended with (ugh) Gandalf on the eagles rescuing the hobbits. Particularly the view from on high with Frodo flying over the mountain. Everyone at that point knows they are safe, that the bad guys are gone, good guys win, fade to "The End" and stick the rest of the movie on DVD.
But no...cut to the coronation scene. Okay, we'll indulge Jackson and sit through a completely predictable closing scene. Oh he gets the girl, yay. Oh, the hobbits are honored okay...allright, perfect ending now, right?
Nope...okay, back to the shire, back to the pub, having a nice homey scene. Clink the glasses, hey that's a perfect place to end it, we've come full circle from Shire to Shire. End, right?
NO...now we drag Bilbo's withered carcass around to take him to the Elf ship. Why? What mainstream fan even remembers this all started three years ago with Bilbo? As far as anyone knows, he died of old age from not having the ring. You leave Sauruman's ending out of the movie, a character that played a much more pivotal role, but instead show what happens to basically a bit character? Why not tell me the life story of the doorkeeper at the bar too? I really want to know if he was able to pursue his dream of becoming a lute player. Okay, so Bilbo asks about the ring, Frodo lost it, cute scene. Cut, it's a wrap.
AAAAAAAAH NO. Now we have an interminally long and weepy scene at the boat. Oh, Frodo's going too? Boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo. Okay, he's going on board with Bilbo and Gandalf, the book has been turned over to Sam, and now the ship sails into the sunset in terrible movie cliche number #412. Fade out...perfect time for "The End"
MOTHER#@#@!%!% JACKSON NO DAMMIT...(sound of entire audience groaning at once) we are back at the shire to show Sam coming home? WTF? Did anyone think he was going to run away and go whoring? We knew he was married and had kids. Why do we need to see it? Who cares? And so we end staring at the round hobbit door...did the movie even begin with a round hobbit door...ah forget it, is this the end?
Okay...The End. Now I can go take that leak I've been holding in for a kidney-busting three and a half hours.
WTF? My four hour validation doesn't cover Return of the King? I have to pay an extra $4 because no one from the theater bothered to memo the parking staff about the insane length of the number one box office draw?
And maybe now you can see why I didn't particularly enjoy the movie as much as I had hoped.
-JoeShmoe
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-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Yet on the DVD he says "I don't know what people are talking about"
He's clearly joking. The post-production commentary track for the same scene says how they removed the car.
Props is a truncated version of "propers" which comes from "proper respects." First wide use of this (that I know of) is in Aretha Franklin's "R-E-S-P-E-C-T" but I'm sure it's been in the urban vernacular for a bit longer.
Current usage of the term is becoming passe and trite from over-usage, gentrification, and/or trans-ethnic deign and mockery. Ya dig, homey?
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Other obvious events that showed the power of the Ring:
The Ring drew the Nazgul to it.
The Ring caused the Council to argue and fight until Frodo spoke up.
The Ring corrupted Boromor without him ever touching it.
Saruman's research into the Rings of Power and his desire for the One ultimately corrupted him. Granted the Palantir didn't help any but by then he was already on his way down.
Even Gandalf said that if the Ring were to buried under Minis Tirith not used, it would corrupt Gondor and the Ring would burn itself in the mind of Denethor and drive him mad.
Just thinking of the Ring brings its corruptive powers into play. Carrying it around on a stick is about effective as carrying it on a chain.
Revealing: When Theoden is talking to Eowyn before he dies one can see that he is wearing contact lenses.
Audio problem: In the scene where Gandalf enters the chambers of Gondor to speak with the Steward of the throne, the sound of his staff striking the floor matches the action in sporadic patches only. In the shot where he departs, that specific sound is consistent.
Continuity: In the final battle scene, when Aragorn and crew are creating a "diversion" outside the gates of Mordor, everyone is on horseback. Later in the scene, when Aragorn and the other warriors charge the enemy, they are on foot. Even if they did dismount, where are the horses?
Continuity: When Gollum accuses Sam of eating the lembas bread, the crumbs on his shoulder don't appear until the shot when Gollum brushes them away.
Continuity: In the scene where Frodo is helped by Galadriel in Shelob's lair (in the "dream sequence") he lays on the ground. In his hair on HIS right side (viewers' left) is what appears to be some clovers or leaves or grass. The camera cuts to Galadriel then back to Frodo, the thing in his hair is gone. The camera cuts to her again and back to Frodo, the thing is back in his hair.
Factual error: Hobbits can't grow beards, yet Samwise Gamgee has stubble in most of his close-ups in Return Of The King. Even if they could grow beards, it seems unlikely they would be in a position to be shaving on that journey.
Continuity: When Gandalf enters the castle of Rohan, the shot of his back shows him holding his staff in a vertical position. When the shot turns to his front, he is holding his staff in an horizontal position. The shot turns to his back, and the staff is again in the vertical position. Then the shot turns again to his front, showing his staff in a horizontal position.
Continuity: When Gollum drops the lembas from the ridge, you see the leaves it was wrapped in fluttering away, and the wafers fall roughly straight down. However, when Sam finds it later, the lembas is still mostly wrapped in the leaves, with only a few morsels broken off and laying around unwrapped.
Continuity: When Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf, Gimli etc, ride up to the gates of Mordor, the main characters go up to the gate on their own to demand it opens. The trails the horses leave on the way towards the gate are different to those that you see in the shot when they retreat after the gate has opened.
Continuity: In one of the final scenes of the movie, Frodo is writing in the book "There and Back Again," adding his own story. As he is finishing, he clutches the wound he received from one of the Nazgul in "The Fellowship of the Ring." In the hand that he uses clutch the wound, he still holds the quill pen. At the same time, Sam is entering Bag-End. When the camera angle changes, Frodo is still clutching the wound, but the pen has found its way into the ink jar.
Other: As Aragorn leads the army from Minas Tirith towards the Black Gates, look at "Pippin" sitting in front of Gandalf. Rather than the usual scale stand-in actor, it is a rather stiff dummy.
Revealing: In the scene where the paciderm animals of Mordor are introduced in the battle, there's a shot that pans the front of the line of them. One animal has wood connecting its larger tusks, complete with barbs jutting out from the wood. As the orcs flee to regroup behind the animals, several run through the contraption unharmed.
Continuity: In the final scene of the film, as Sam returns home and his children rush out to meet him, the cows in the background change position each time the camera goes back to Sam.
Continuity: In the scene where King Theoden is dying under his horse after Eowyn has slain the Witch King, there are three spots of mud on Theoden's right cheek that are so clear that they almost appear to be a tattoo. The camera cuts to Eowyn, then back to Theoden, and the spots on his face are faint, smudged, and in different locations. The camera cuts again from Theoden to Eowyn and back, and the sp
People always bring this up. I don't know why it's so hard to figure out.
The standard answer everyone gives is that the Eaglers weren't so concerned with the world of Men, but that answer never flew for me (pardon the pun), because there was more obvious logic to turn to.
Which is more discreet? A flock of HUGE FUCKING EAGLES, or two little Hobbits sneaking into Mordor and dumping it into Mount Doom?
I don't get why people don't think it through. The first thing Sauron would do if a bunch of HUGE FUCKING EAGLES came flying over the borders of Mordor is just send flying Nazghul after them, and probably also strike them down with flaming lava or wind or something. Plus, Sauron would immediately know where the Ring was, what they're trying to do with it, etc. All plans would instantly be revealed before they even really entered Mordor (he'd immediately see a flock of HUGE FUCKING EAGLES coming from Gondor, no doubt).
Meanwhile, two little Hobbits--a little unimportant, insignificant race completely out of Sauron's mind and most everyone else's in Middle-Earth--sneaks into Morder essentially through a backdoor and actually climbs Mount Doom as Sauron's gaze is distracted by Gondor forces.
Having HUGE FUCKING EAGLES flying it there is an incredibly stupid idea. What makes the Hobbit idea great is that it's incredibly stupid, but so stupid that it's out of Sauron's mind, which makes it the best plan of action (what other choice was there?). That's why the story works so well, and how Sam and Frodo actually made it. Nobody even considers or regards Hobbits. They're not an essential race at all in the mythology of Middle-Earth. Orcs and other baddies don't even really care all that much about them, so they're constantly underestimated. Middle-Earth is so concerned with the main controlling races of Men and Orcs and Sauron and Elves, that out of the blue, a couple of creatures of one of the lesser races from some goofy, ignorant place called the Shire sneaks in and drops the ring in the mountain.
The Eagles only come flying in after the Ring is destroyed, and it's safe for them to.
So, no, HUGE FUCKING EAGLES flying in doesn't even work logically.
"Sufferin' succotash."
The final ending with Sam going home was there because it was the ENDING of the series. The last paragraph of The Return of the King, sans appedi is "He drew a deep breather. 'Well, I'm back,' he said."
Wouldn't make much sense for Sam to say that at the docks.
Yes the end dragged, in the theater I was in people laughed when the fade out went to another scene. But that is how Tolkien wrote it and thus that is how Jackson ended it.
Because of research into medieval tactics. Cavalry almost never fights mounted unless the enemy infantry is already scattered. Ever seen "Braveheart"? William Wallace hardly thought that trick up; in fact mounted cavalry has almost never defeated formed infantry.
All's true that is mistrusted
Every single one of the things you complain about can have cinematic justifications to give the story more impact.
# Cheap thrills. For example, in Moria, when all the orcs surround them, and then run away. It's just stupid, it doesn't make any sense.
It's tension. They're completely surrounded and about to die, then suddenly, all the Orcs run away, signalling something MUCH more evil and powerful approaching that even they fear. It's just some nice tension to give the appearance of the Balrog more impact. You find it "cheesy" because you're a book purist.
# Cheap action-flick fight scenes. So, there's nine people standing on a narrow staircase out in the middle of nowhere, with thousands of orcs shooting at them, and they all miss. Legolas is shooting at orcs spread out, behind shadows and in cover, and hits every one. Now, orcs aren't as good as elves, but they're not *that* bad.
There weren't "thousands" of Orcs. Looked like a few dozen. Why wouldn't they be poor archers? They're just a bunch of Moria orcs trying to hit some little targets on a distant bridge. Of course Legolas would hit some (it's not shown whether he hits every one), because he's a skilled Elf bowman. You don't like it because you're a book purist.
# Cheesy dramatic scenes. Frodo gets hurt, and all the action stops. Gandalf "dies", and all the action stops. Boromir dies three or four times.
Oh, stop. Borimier dies once. The action stops to give the scenes more impact. My brother who hadn't read the Fellowship, freaked out when Gandalf fell. "I didn't know he died!" In fact, these movies use slow-motion way more tastefully than the two Matrix movies. It gives the death scenes a sense of surrealism.
All in all, you're just a book purist who didn't like the fact that these are movies and have to behave like movies.
"Sufferin' succotash."
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
They complain on the site that after Shelob stabbed Frodo, we didn't see a big wound in his chest. Well, if we did, he would be very dead (shelob sting IS poisonous) but I don't remember him taking his mithril chainmail off, so it was just the same as with the troll in Moria...
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Nobody has stated the biggest problem of RotK. Agmar of the Ringwraiths should have been portrayed as a cloaked, hooded wraith like the others, even with his fight with Eowyn. That kick ass helm in the film should have been reserved for the Mouth of Sauron, seeing as it was directly derivative of Sauron's own helm. Riding out to meet Aragorn, Eomer and Gandalf at the Black Gate on something CGI cooked up that looked a little bit like a giant black horse and a dragon combined - he should have been allowed to speak to Aragorn. Why is this important? Because other than hearing a few words from Sauron via the Palantir, you never hear him. You hear him "whisper" the name "Aragorn" on the wind as his eye sees Aragorn through the gate, which is silly IMO. With the Mouth of Sauron, he could speak directly to the main protagonists. He could give that speech he does in the book, or they could edit it slightly. It speaks of Sauron's sense of entitlement. Malkar's flunky is what some other Slashdotter called him, and it's true. He thinks he's somehow entitled to rule Middle Earth and enslave it. I need to go back and re-read RotK and read that passage again, but without the Mouth of Sauron in the film, you never get to hear from the bad guy. And as Milton proved in Paradise Lost, it's very compelling to hear the ultimate bad guy talk. it gives balance to the story. However, I must give PJ credit for the way he filmed the fall of Sauron. You were expecting the nuke effect, but the way he fell, the fire eye looking back and forth, you could see the terror in Sauron's "eye", I was amazed - here was a CGI effect emoting better than many actors can. I still think the Mouth of Sauron was very important.
Denethor, Steward of Gondor was set to burn himself and his son, Faramir, on a funeral pyre. While Pippin ran to get help from Gandalf, Beregond, a Guard of Gondor, prevented Denethor's servants (killed 1, wounded 2 I believe) from giving him a torch to set himself and his son ablaze. When Gandalf arrived, he pulled Faramir from the pile of oil-soaked wood. Denethor then revealed a palantir, grabbed a torch and set himself afire. The palantir would then only show two aged, burning hands to anyone who would use it.
Yeah, I read the books a time or two. Or 14.Please don't humanize the morons around me. It makes me very uncomfortable.