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Nintendo - Stodgy, Not-So-Super Mario?
Thanks to the Washington Post for their article discussing Nintendo's current position in the console wars. Although many of the usual points are discussed (despite Sony and Microsoft's efforts at innovation in online gaming and elsewhere, Nintendo has "...stuck to a philosophy that people who buy and play video games enjoy the familiar and care little for such gimmickry"), the piece also points to possible failure in Nintendo's current tactics ("The company proclaimed that the Game Boy Advance would be a 'Trojan horse' for the GameCube - but that Trojan horse never opened because very few game designers have figured out cool ways to take advantage of that connectivity.") The article ends with an analyst's concern that "...the game console market might be starting to move beyond what Nintendo can deliver."
Right now, most games I know would rather have a PS2 or an XBox because there are more mature titles on those respective platforms.
Not that there is anything wrong with all the cutesy stuff, but if Nintendo wants to compete with the big boys, they are going to have to start making games for the big boys.
Every freaking post that mentions Ninendo is about their death.. Really? they sure seem so dead to me.. I mean really, When do we get to see trolls like Gamespy now Confirms: Nintendo is dying.
Man it ticks me off. Here's two facts. They are leading the way in terms of profit and they are number 2 in consoles sold. And I predict that soon PS/XBox will be in a different Market than Nintendo anyhow.
It isn't slashdotted, but I can't get past the a/s/l part of their cheesy web page without javascript.
I was worried that we might be overdue for a "nintendo is dead/dying" article.
It's sad when choosing an installation directory on your own qualifies you as an "advanced user."
Haven't I read this article before?
the people who play console games online are statistically insignificant. pretending otherwise does not make it so.
"After a year of mostly lackluster sales for the GameCube console (save a recent spurt following a recent price cut) and declining support from game developers, it looks as though Nintendo may have miscalculated."
AKA: "blah, blah, blah, THE END IS NEAR BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT SONY!"
Please. I've read this before. The fact is that Nintendo does like to stick to its tried-and-true, but the tried-and-true do rock.
We're also starting to see a lot more coolness in terms of software that targets the 'cube, rather than just garbage software. Maybe you don't remember having a PS2 -- but between its launch in 2000, and late 2002, there wasn't much for decent software (a handful of really good titles), and most of the first-gen stuff was just warmed over PS1 games with more textures. The same thing is true of the GameCube and Xbox -- the first year and a bit is usually pretty dire for decent games. Real innovation (like F-Zero GX being a true evolution of the game, and the upcoming RE4), as well as great remakes (RE1, Metal Gear Solid), as well as cool concepts (Animal Crossing, Pacman VS) are all great things which other consoles do not have. No serious gamer would be caught without a GameCube.
Then they go on to say stuff like, "The GameCube is teetering on the edge of whether they should stay in this business or not." Which is funny as all fuck because there are about 1.5 million more GameCubes out there than Xboxes. I suppose this means that Microsoft should pack its shit and go back to trying to kill Linus Torvalds -- because they obviously are total suck-asses at video game consoles. Strange, I haven't seen a Washington Post article about that!
North American reporters have this queer fascination with kicking someone when they're down. This is just another example of it.
GameCube has all the stuff that Sony and Microsoft don't. There is a huge amount of overlap in the PS2 and Xbox library, but very little in GameCube land. As I said before, no serious gamer would be without a GameCube.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Lack of online support. This is my only point against the Gamecube. I'd love to play some internet games of Mario Kart, or Mario Party and such, but even with my broadband adaptor, I can't. Several unique Nintendo only games would be awesome online.
And yes, I know about Warp Pipe. It sucks right now, unless you have a killer internet connection to the other system.
Beyond that, the Cube has the most innovative controller I have ever seen *gasp* different sized buttons instead of identical ones. It has the best wireless controller, since it's first party. It has the most unique games out of all the consoles. It's cheep, since it didn't try to include things like DVD playback (worthless to most tech savy people who already owned a DVD player).
And as many others have pointed out, the Gamecube is doing rather well, and I am sure will solidify the number two spot after the holiday numbers come in.
I guess noone writes XBox doom articles, since MS could afford to mail free XBoxes like AOL CDs if they really wanted to.
for many industry changes, there's always a company that argues "people don't really want this new technology". Hence train companies that insisted that the cozy feeling of train travel will let them keep their customers, the ppl who argued a personal computer will never spread because people wouldn't have any use for an electric editor that was many times more expensive then the easy-to-use typewriters that were common at the time, and so on...
their arguement does hold. there will always be demand for train travel, typewriters, etc. However the consumer never fails to quickly grasp the new technology and raise their expectations. The firms that fail to follow get reduced to the sidelines, although many continue to exist. I'm afraid the poster was correct in his opinion that Nintendo strategy is doomed. People do expect their games to look realistic, and when faced with a choice of 2 consoles or games at similar price point, they'll go with the more flashy/realistic/prettier one. The value of nintendo's trademarks is not really a growth generator, trademarks require technology or marketing behind them, and Nintendo's ability to do both will deteriorate if they fail to create games that lead, not trail the competition.
"...the game console market might be starting to move beyond what Nintendo can deliver."
This statement may more or less be true. However, this isn't something that Sony and Microsoft is immune to. What happens if the PS3 is a mediochre upgrade to the PS2? More polys, higher res, slightly flashier graphics. What if the XBOX2 has DVR capabilities, and people buy it for that and not so much for games? What if some 'never-been-in-the-game-market-before' company shows up surrounded in a hype field? (Apple? IBM? Toshiba??)
The point? At least Nintendo's trying. Not every idea is a winner. However, they have built themselves a rather faithful audience to support them for coming years. Yeah, maybe one day they'll go the way of Sega. That's life. It's just hard to imagine, though, that the other two players have any less to fear. Sony does not have Mario. Microsoft doesn't have enough success to bank on backwards compatibility. And the game market is increasingly attractive to newcomers.
The funny thing is, Nintendo's loss of marketshare would be hard to describe as a black eye. Maybe there's some hurt pride. Fair enough. Are they successful? Yes. Are they profitable? Oh hell yes. Are they innovative? Well gee, there sure is a whole lotta Nintendo-copy-catting going on.
"The company proclaimed that the Game Boy Advance would be a 'Trojan horse' for the GameCube - but that Trojan horse never opened because very few game designers have figured out cool ways to take advantage of that connectivity."
Mostly a true statement, though it's written as though the GameCube and/or the GBA is/aren't succesful. Okay, maybe it's just my Nintendo zealousy, but it's interesting how outsiders have such a dim view of what's going on in Nintendo's world. "Oh they've dropped back to #3. Bye Bye Nintendo." I'm starting to feel as though I need to re-examine my perception of Apple.
"Derp de derp."
First let me say that the GameCube is a great machine. However nintendo keeps screwing up and thats why it has lost its lead. It started when they chose to censor Mortal Kombat and Sega didn't. This alienated many of their mature gamers. Then they chose the cartridge format for N64. Then they chose to not support/encourage third party developers as much as sony/sega/microsoft. Also they decided to only make cute little games oriented towards kids, even though most gamers are adults. All the games for older gamers are third party games. Look at their first party games... Mario, Monkey Ball, F-Zero, Mario Party, Kirby, Zelda, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Smash Brothers... The only FIRST PARTY game doesn't have cute little cartoon characters is Metroid. While I respect that nintendo has kept their games clean instead of selling out and making violent sexually explicit adult only games like GTA3 it has cost them some gamers. It's not just about sex and violence either. Games like Gran Turismo are made for older gamers that can appreciate the realism of the game. Kids under 13 don't care that they recorded actual engine sounds from each auto model. I mean adults can play Mario or Zelda The original GBA display also sucked. This was fixed with GBA SP but it was too late. And don't even get me started on how they've failed at online gaming compared to sony and microsoft. Hopefully they'll get their act together for their next system. Make it backward compatible with gamecube games, make it play DVDs, put a network adapter in there (wireless even), put a hard drive in there, have lots of good launch titles (first party AND THIRT PARTY), and don't flood the market with nothing but mario games. (mario golf, mario party, mario tennis, mario fighting game, mario world, mario racing...)
oops theres typos in that but i just woke up and im half asleep sue me
Just a thought. More Mario isn't always a bad thing.
Goo goo g'joob.
How can a company be dead when their leading console ( Gameboy advance / advance sp ) has the highest user base in Japan.
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http://www.ningc.com/news.php?article=3953.
And just hit the 10 million mark in europe.
http://www.bdgamer.net/index.php/item/index.php/c
And it's more expensive over here at the current exchange rate thats well over a billion dollar gross in europe alone.
The combined sales of gamecube and gameboy advance are dominating the market at 51% of all consoles sold last month and this figure ISN'T from Nintendo it's from the retailers !!!
http://www.gamerseurope.com/news/1095
Perhaps the writer and the sony/microsnot toadie analysts should have done some research before proclaiming the big N dead.
I'd like to point out that Nintendo still hasn't gotten a Grand Theft Auto type of game on their system.
(Notice I said "type" and not "caliber.")
It's seen as a "kiddie system" for a reason, boys.
As long as I'm going to get modded down for trolling (Help, help! I'm being oppressed!), I'd like to ask you all why it is that the same group of people who vehemently and religiously bash Microsoft are some of the first people to rally around Mario's flag?
Buncha hypocrites.
I am Jack's Savage Beats.
I have both an XBox and a GC. Had a PS2 but got rid of it when I realized that the GC was graphically and gameplay wise better.
I love the fact that most GC games (especially those from produced by Nintendo) support 480p. Heck, launch games like "Luigi's Mansion" and "Rogue Squadron" were 480p from the start. Also, the Wavebird is the best wireless controller hands down.
I attribute the PS2 success to backward compatability and the Microsoft Windows "me too" effect. Ironic that Microsoft is being beaten by their own strategy.
Political correctness is the newest form of slavery.
So now every console needs a Grand Theft Auto to even be viable? Sorry, it's a decent game, but is doesn't even come close to defining what gaming is or whatever the hell you seem to think. Game consoles existed before GTA type games existed and they'll continue to exist long after it's dead and buried. Who the hell cares whether or not Nintendo has a GTA type game? If that's all you want out of a system, I have to say your gaming experience must be pretty narrow.
Since when is a GTA-type game required to be a non-kiddie system anyway? O_o
:p
Violent games are for kids, I want cute characters ktnx.
Simpsons Hit & Run? ;-)
My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
Nintendo is dead when it is dead. Until then it is just a company that is not doing terribly well at the moment. Sony is the clear winner in the console race. MS is the clear loser but doesn't need to win in the first round. Nintendo needs the consoles badly but may be able to survive on the handheld where it is so far in front that it is lapping the competition.
So on to the next round. We have a fairly good idea what sony is going to do. PSP and the Cell based PS3. MS is going to do more powerfull x-box and move away from standard parts to stop the copying of its games. Nintendo? Well so far only that something very intresting would be released in the near future.
The coming round may kill off nintendo if sony can deliver with both its new platforms. May kill but not likely. Don't forget that in japan itself nintendo is not doing badly at all. It is just the western markets were it is goofing off. It may just become more of niche player then it once was. Can you say atari?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The original GBA display also sucked. This was fixed with GBA SP but it was too late.
Too late? Dude, do you know how many GBA Nintendo sold? Yup, gazillions. And that's before the GBA SP...
Further more, I'm close to 40, and I love all those first party games you listed!
True Crime: Streets of LA IS out for the Gamecube right now, and it's apparently called the "GTA Killer"...
I had no problem with cartridge format. Sure, the textures and music were more compressed, but it eliminated the horrible load times present in PSX games.
And they don't make games oriented towards kids... they make games that everyone can enjoy. This way, they don't eliminate a possible sale.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
Yeah.. I should have posted this with my other post... sue me.
Making the changes to GBA SP was too late? It's the number 1 selling game unit WORLDWIDE. It consistently sells much more than PS2, which is murdering both GCN and Xbox. So while you think it is too late, the average consumer definitely does not.
Backwards compatibility would be nice, but I don't need to pay an extra $25-50 so my console can play DVDs. I have a DVD player, and two computers for that.
An integrated network adapter would be nice, but face it, not every home has a broadband connection, even less have a broadband connection and even less have a wireless network. Do you want them to integrate a phone modem, ethernet port, and wireless interface? Again, that'd drive the price up a little too much for 2 things that I would not use.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
True Crime? I think the engine is better than GTA. Not the actual gameplay, though. Haven't played much of it, though.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
Dude, if you think games like Mario Sunshine, Super Monkey Ball and F-zero are kiddy games, perhaps you should pull your head out of the oh-its-so-cute-so-it-has-to-be-for-kids-only asshole.
Here's a hint, genius: mature gamers know that GAMEPLAY is what makes a game 'mature' and great, not testosterone pumped, adrenaline injected, blood bathed mindless and shallow hyper realistic graphical extravaganzas. Here's a simple example that's not even on the gamecube: ICO is a multitudes more mature than something like Postal 2, yet how violent is ICO? While a game like Postal 2 CAN be aimed at and considered an adult game, so can the ICO... and for much better reasons.
If Nintendo ever goes the way of Sega (not likely, but you never know), it won't be because they don't make mature games... it'll be because idiots like you equate maturity with guns, violence, and blood. You, my friend, are exactly what's wrong with a lot of game fans these days.
''Competitors Sony and Microsoft have [..] turned their game consoles into karaoke machines [..]. Nintendo, meanwhile, has stuck to a philosophy that people who buy and play video games enjoy the familiar and care little for such gimmickry.''
Riigghht...
''Sony also made a clever move in allowing games designed for the original PlayStation to be playable on the PlayStation 2 [...]. The GameCube cannot play Nintendo video games made for older-model machines.''
Nintendo's next console (aka N5) will play GameCube games.
''The com pany proclaimed that the Game Boy Advance would be a 'Trojan horse' for the GameCube - but that Trojan horse never opened because very few game designers have figured out cool ways to take advantage of that connectivity.''
Yeah, this is why Sony copies this connectivity thing with the upcoming PSP, right?
Quote from The Register:
''And like Nintendo, "connectivity" is a real buzzword for Sony. With PSP's USB 2.0 port, the handheld will be able to connect to the PS2 and other PSP consoles''
''Nintendo has focused many of its titles on the preteen and teenage gamer. By contrast, Xbox, often seen as the cutting-edge choice for older gamers'' ;-)
Nintendo GameCube has lots of kiddy games like the Resident Evil series, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, Mortal Kombat, True Crime, etc.,while Sony and MS only have various mature games like this splatter game or that hard hardcore game..
I'm so l33t that I don't have anything to do with those Eternal Mortal Evil Crime kiddy games on GameCube...
You're mixing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd parties - eg. Super Monkey Ball is from Sega, not Nintendo.
What's so kiddy about F-Zero? The pilots look a bit strange, but have you ever seen SciFi on TV? Lots of aliens there look even stranger.
BTW: Eternal Darkness is also not on you list.
I've been seeing this same "Nintendo is dead" article over and over again, wondering exactly what people are trying to prove. Why do we continually see this over and over?
Let me stop for a moment and state that I consider myself to be a hardcore video game fanatic. I've been a gamer since my aunt handed me a Bally Arcade controller when I was 5 in the late 70s. My collection includes every mainstream console as well as many others. Heck, I've been with the industry longer than some of these pundits who write about where the market is going. I guess I just feel I know a little about gaming.
I would also like to state that my Gamecube gets more play than my PS2 and Xbox combined, and when there are some great games on these systems, that's saying quite a bit. I am pleased that Gamespot, a reasonable mainstream VG news source, gave "Metroid Prime" the Game of the Year award in 2002 and "Wind Waker" in 2003. For a system that's only 3 years old, it has quite a legacy. So why is it that we continue to profess that it's dead?
The wonderful fun part about making a prediction that "Nintendo is dead" is if you say it enough, it will come true. The recent Dreamcast market struggle ended with Sega leaving the hardware business behind simply because of this type of self-fulfilling prophecy. Will this happen to Nintendo with their Gamecube? Possibly. Probably. What will happen to them? They will go on or they won't. Do we (Slashdot) have to participate in this problem with the furthering of FUD? No.
We here at Slashdot, which is a community news source, hate all three current gaming console companies. Sony and Microsoft stomp on our rights at every possible turn, from anti-trusts to Aibos, broadcast flags, worms, DeCSS, proprietary file formats, or P2P shutdowns, these corporate behemoths are always up to the task of taking up the DMCA sword and smiting our fellow hackers.
Nintendo isn't exactly a saint, I'll agree. There's proof of them engaging in price fixing and they've taken a stance against emulation. They aren't as evil as the other two but they aren't as big either.
Here's the issue though: We can only hurt Nintendo in the video game arena. This is why we see so much anti-Nintendo FUD on games.slashdot.org. Slashdot isn't anti-Nintendo, it's just anti-corporation. Nintendo just gets it's fair slaps here because we've already complained about the other guys elsewhere.
Meh. Nintendo will live or die. It's beginning to not matter much to me anymore. When all that's left in the video gaming area is companies like Microsoft and Electronic Arts who care more about exploting money from gamers than making good entertainment, the industry will stagnate. The mainstream will dismiss video games as a fad yet again and we'll have another crash. Video games will be a small hobby once again.
Yeah... you read it about Apple 13 years ago... and they're back to doing just dandy...
Nintendo isn't exactly a saint, I'll agree. There's proof of them engaging in price fixing and they've taken a stance against emulation. They aren't as evil as the other two but they aren't as big either.
I liked most of your post, but not applying the same treatment to Nintendo that Sony and MS get is unfair. Let's not forget that Nintendo used to be very controlling, almost to a Mac-level of totalitarianism, in the console market. For example, it wasn't that long ago that Nintendo tried to sue cheat guide publishers for printing screenshots of their games so that they could monopolize the strategy guide market. That's one case. The only reason Nintendo has become more publisher and consumer friendly is because they're losing to Sony. While Nintendo claims that the proprietary GC disc size is to prevent piracy, the more likely reason (since piracy is as rampant now as it is for the other two systems) is that Nintendo owns the manufacturing factory for the discs, similar to their same business models for the cartridges for the NES-N64 and the GB-GBA.
Nintendo has only recently shed themselves of their anti-developer diplomatic policies, and buys out as many dev teams and houses as MS and Sony do.
I like that it won't matter to you anymore, but nevertheless, slashdot should not act sympathetic towards Nintendo because of business practices, because I'd venture to say that everything Sony and MS have done Nintendo has already done in one form or another. Slashdot likes Nintendo because slashdot likes underdogs, not because it dislikes big companies. Nintendo used to be that big company slashdot would've hated if we were around in the mid eighties. If we're going to like Nintendo more than Sony and MS, it ought to be because they generally make better games than Sony and MS, not because we feel corporately sorry for them.
the apple of the video game industry....
If they were so insignificant, Nintendo would not waste their time telling the public this early in development of the next console that it will have online capabilities.
Arguing otherwise would show that you have no knowledge of Nintendo's history.
You seem to ignore that the PS2 has stuff like Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, and Grand Theft Auto; all of these game, while just being new editions of the series, sell extremely well. So having an updated version of a game is not harmful.
Btw, gimme some numbers on the GC selling 1.5 million more than the Xbox. I'll believe it when I see some credible stats...
dude chill out. did you even read all of my post?? i agree gameplay is whats important, but that doesnt mean almost every game they publish has to have cute little furry animals in it.
"While I respect that nintendo has kept their games clean instead of selling out and making violent sexually explicit adult only games like GTA3 it has cost them some gamers. It's not just about sex and violence either. Games like Gran Turismo are made for older gamers that can appreciate the realism of the game. Kids under 13 don't care that they recorded actual engine sounds from each auto model. I mean adults can play Mario or Zelda..." -me
It's a poor strawman agrument to equate titles aimed at adults with Postal 2. To me, overly cutesy graphics become irritating after a while. What's so great about playing a character that looks just like Peter Pan (unless you're Michael Jackson)?
i personally didn't have a problem with the cartridge format either. and i understand why nintendo stayed with it. i hated load times of saturn/ps1.
but the cartridge format meant more expensive games. if they manufacture 100,000 cartridges of a game and only sell 50,000 thats a huge loss. but if they make 100,000 cds of a game and only sell 50,000 then they don't lose as much money because cds dont cost nearly as much as cartridges. this made game publishers wary of making n64 games. and hurt nintendo in the long run.
oops youre right monkey ball is a sega game.
i meant MOST nintendo games are oriented towards kids. not all. i forgot about eternal darkness. thats one of the exceptions. nintendo is like the disney of video games. disney makes great movies and most of them are for kids and yes, adults like disney movies too.
Nintendo does have games like Ikaruga though; while they don't sell nearly as much, they have a strong following among the community that does play them.
Good point. I was thinking of it from a consumer point of view. Sony saw Nintendo was still charging $50-$60 for games, so they rarely lowered their prices of new games. So by the consumer point of view, the cartridges were a better format as long as you didn't mind smaller textures.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
How is MS the clear loser? It is innovating everything for the future at the moment...
yeah i know gameboy is by far the best selling system ever. i didnt mean it was too late for them to sell systems. i meant they should have made the gameboy advance screen not suck in the first place. they released the GBA SP because so many people were bitching about the original GBA's screen. the release of the GBA SP was necessary because the original's screen sucked so hard, and nintendo realized it after they released the original, which was too late. (even though it still sold well)
You claim to be a long time gamer, yet you act like you completely missed out on the history of Sega.
They did not just fulfill some prophecy. Do you mean to tell me that the CD drives additions and the Saturn itself had nothing to do with their collapse?
Trust me, Sega had a black cloud over its head before the Dreamcast came out...
It's seen as a "kiddie system" for a reason, boys.
Why? Because 14 year old males are so insecure that they'd feel "kiddy" playing something like Super Mario, yet have no problems watching Dragon Ball Z or other completely childish crap like that? It's funny how all the "mature" games, the ones that teenagers claim as some sort of claim to their maturity, are the most immature games of them all.
I dont know about you, but do games really have to have edgy characters to be playable? So kirby doesnt have a chainsaw mounted on him, does it mean its any less of a *FUN* game to play?
For $99 now, it's a good deal. My younger brother just got one for Christmas, and it game with a game, well many games when you think about it, The Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition(Original Zelda, through Majora's Mask, and the demo of the newest one). For the price it beats both X-BOX and PS2, and you won't find SuperMario or Zelda on either of those, and those are two characters, I grew up with playing as. It's very unlikely that Nintendo will be going away anytime soon. Nintendo's sales have increased since the price cut, and their marketshare is about 37 percent of the market for consoles(atleast that's what they claim).
Nintendo main target is "family" (kids)
because that means anyone can buy their games (more $$$), they reuse their own franchises to attract their "fanbase" grown ups and teens who used to play with their franchises (more $$$)so they always will have a fan base as soon as theres kids and kids parents who buy kid games more ($$$), everybody (who is not a nintendo fan at least) is sick and tired of seing Mario, pikachu and Zelda (and all their spin offs) in a yet another ridiculous game the 100th time but the thing is they are not bad (N has geniuses in their staff) and since they have their "fanbase" they always sell.
Nintendo is never going to change because their "business plan" is extremely proofitable
and therefore is highly unlikely to "die".
However is also unlkikely they get back to the top of the lists either, because a lot of gamers are just tired of "their scheme" and have adopted other consoles instead.
people are missing the point. disney makes great movies that appeal to both kids and adults. but what if 90% of all movies were disney movies? i never said nintendo didn't make great games. just that their games are targeted at children.
Even if Nintendo did write the network software, you'd still need to have an ideal netowrk connection to have virtually no lag. I still think that in addition to no believe there is enough money to be made for online gaming for their console, Nintendo must also be concerned that lag and other network degradations may dampen the gameplay experience. Nintendo is usually very focused on the gameplay experience, so they might view internet gaming as not ready for them. I think the LAN ability of Mario Kart as an experiemental step for them.
When the PSP (Playstation Portable) comes out, Nintendo will have the first real handheld competition in its history. All other previous competitors like SegaGamegear, Lynx and many countless others have been a complete joke.
If Nintendo can't hold up on its last leg... it'll have to do what Sega did to survive. That is to make Sonic the hedgehog and many other Sega titles appear on other hardware.
Sega didn't have much problem swimming torward this direction. But I got a feeling Nintendo is one of those extremely tradition japanese companies that would go down kamakazi style.
Here we go again. Another "Nin-ten-DOH! is gonna bite teh dust!" article. as a counter to this article, I'm going to....
You know what? Screw it. I'm sick of seeing these "articles." So, if you want to see some reasoning, look at my previous posts or something, because frankly, it just isn't worth it to have to reiterate the same points over and over again. For some reason, the general public and the media just doesn't shut up about this. Dunno why, but it's getting ridiculous. A Nikkei company of the year with billions of dollars and no debt isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. Heck, the Nikkei is only 12 years older than Nintendo. Nintendo has survived for 115+ years, and it isn't going to just vanish.
Wow, let's all join on the Nintendo-bashing bandwagon! Completely ignoring actual statistics!
Nintendo's stock price is back above 10,000 Yen for the first time in two months since the profit-loss announcement. Sales have been through the roof since the price-cut. Heck the article bases Nintendo's "failure" off of two month old console sales and sales of one game.
"The GameCube is teetering on the edge of whether they should stay in this business or not,"
Congratulations on doing research. Nintendo has said time and again, when they leave the console-making business, they leave the games business.
Game magazine editor Davison said the smartest thing for Nintendo to do would be to "circle the wagons" on the handheld market and give up the console market, a thought other analysts share.
WHY? The GameCube has more million sellers (Including titles rated M) than the Xbox, in the states AND abroad. Heck, Super Smash Bros. Melee has outsold Halo, but would this article have you believe that?
Mario Kart Double Dash was the top seller in November, even though it was only out for 1/2 of the month. It sold 650,000 consoles compared to 750,000 PS2s and 400,000 Xboxen.
What more does the WashingtonPost expect out of Nintendo? They can only stage a comeback so fast. Of course, the Post fails to mention Sony's profit loss or MS's trickling Xbox Live numbers.
Whoever wrote this article clearly just wants to sound hip in putting down a company that is clearly in no position to leave. Don't base a company's success on their business in your area. Heck, would you believe Sony's profits fell 98% during one quarter this year? Just remember, it takes a lot less sales of First-party games(GCN) to make a profit than licensing out for Third-party games and console sales(PS2) and last I checked, as long as you are making money doing it, why stop? And, no, the profit loss last quarter was not due to sales of anything whatsoever. Nintendo's huge cash stockpile is overseas partially and when the value of the Yen increases by only a few cents, the value in the banks drops dramatically. If you've been following currency amounts, you'll know it's wacky. Heck, Canada's trading at nearly $1.30/76c for the first time in a long while.
what the December sales for the Gamecube and GBA will be. I had to go to 6 stores where I live to try and find a Gameboy player for my Dad. In each store, the Gamecube and GBA shelves were almost empty, while the XBox and PS2 shelves were fully stocked. I don't know if that is bad ordering or tons of sales, but I suspect Nintendo will be the sales leader in December.
-- shi-mo-foe --
Nothing new here folks - just some lame reporters thinking they are psyhic and can predict the industry and come up with thier own conclusions. Crap publised from the Washington Post, Time Magazine and other morons who declare Nintendo dead or Nintendo has no future can go in a cave somewhere and stay there. :D
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
The sony handheld will be out if I recall correctly in 2005 in Japan, probably 2006 or even 2007 in USA, by that time Nintendo will have the next generation handheld out again, likely supporting N64 power to play 64 bit games and who knows maybe even STILL be backwards compatible with GBA/GBC/GB games.
Plus, as was mentioned here in another comment, Sony just loves to overhype their products, the PSX especially comes to mind, so does the PS2.
And Nintendo will NOT go the way of Sega. The problem with Sega was their were nowhere near as big as Nintendo, didn't have nearly as much money, and they tried to get the Dreamcast going good in the market, and it was a nice machine too, but ultimately it failed.
SO Nintendo will NOT be going down. Listen to the facts for once and not to moronic reporters who think they are psyhic and can predict Nintendo horror stories.
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
AND the next generation system will also be backwards compatible with the Gamecube.
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
1) A GTA type game IS coming out for the GBA.
:D
2) A game like GTA that involves every kind of crime imaginable does NOT make a system. I'd find myself bored playing a game like GTA where all you do is drive around, commit crimes and god knows what else. Plus the makers of GTA are in a lot of hot water now anyway.
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
Nintendo's next gen system to the Gamecube has already been confirmed on the net from NOJ's president as to be backwards compatible with Gamecube games. THAT there will be a big selling point right there.
DVD playing I could care less about, from what I've heard the ps2 can't even play most dvd's with decent quality or without problems. Considering that DVD players are now almost as common place as VCR's, there IS NO POINT To putting it into a game console other then to hike the price up and make the system more complicated.
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
Just comparing them to other "dying" technologies.
After all, there will always be kids. Nintendo seems to focus on that demographic before extending to other demographics.
It still had better change some of its ways if it wants to survive. SEGA made a hardware mistake, and, the mistake of going against the (then) leader in the console market. Sony. Nintendo quietly played thier cards and let the big two duke it out and then picked up the scraps. Will this happen with MS and Sony? I dont know. But, whom ever comes out on top, will then focus its sights on them. I am sure this was Sony's objective as soon as SEGA bit the dust, but, all of a sudden has a real problem on thier hands: Microsoft and thier near liquid assets. It distracted Sony long enough for them to pick market share back up with make-or-break price cuts.
What you armchair analyst fail to see is that the price cut screamed depseration from Nintendo. Luckily it worked for them this time, but if the Cube has to drop again in the shadow of a possible price cut from Sony or MS, what will happen then? What will happen when a PS2 (with the improved hardware, look for the + on the box kids) or the Xbox drops to 159, 154.99? For 60 more you get a DVD player(PS2) And if you have one of them Fancy HDTV's that are all over now (and will be all over the place in less than 3 years), you will want a console that can take advantage of those 480,720i modes (XBox).
I know the next gen console specs havent been released yet, but, If Nintendo keeps up with this "wait and see" approach, they will get left behind, no doubt.
I certainly hope they change for the better. I love my GC, and dont want to have it sit collecting dust because more and more developers are abandoning the platform.
Dreamcast, anyone?
Sometimes sales figures aren't everything...
Your comment is asinine...since all the current console discs are DVD based and therefore all the drives that read the discs are DVD drives, how is it a major price hike? Sure, if they charge money for a remote, THEN it is a price hike. Otherwise, the console is still the same price since it HAS to use a DVDROM to read the games!
I was referring to the Dreamcast's plight in particular.
Yes, Sega screwed up by releasing an add-on called the Sega CD and turned around and made the same mistake with the 32X. The Saturn failed because it was designed rather quickly under the pressure of Sony's new Playstation and developers said it was too hard to program for. There was much mismanagement in Sega for years before the Dreamcast, but that's not what killed it.
The Dreamcast was a solid piece of hardware that was very powerful but still easy to program for. A modem was included with every dreamcast sold in North America, as well as most other markets, making any online game playable out of the box. It had several early first party games like Crazy Taxi and NFL2k that were killer apps as well as a few third party pixel perfect arcade ports like Soul Calibur, Power Stone, and Marvel vs. Capcom. It even had interesting features like an out-of-the-box web browser, four controller ports for multiplayer action, a true VGA adapter, and a Visual Memory Unit that could function on it's own or as a screen on the controller. In short, the Dreamcast was a beautiful system.
The problem was that giants like Electronic Arts, who couldn't compete with NFL2k at the time by releasing a DC version of Madden, pronounced the system dead before it even was launched. Several other publishers followed suit comparing it to the Saturn as yet another colossal Sega flop.
The self-fulfilling prophecy was that there was little third party support, so the system had few games. Few games meant that consumers were less likely to buy the system. Smaller installed base meant that third party publishers weren't interested. This is what killed the DC.
It's a shame too. It was the little console that couldn't. Sony's hype machine caused people to rush out and buy the PS2 and forget about the DC, and Sega killed it shortly after.
BTW, when people cite that the Saturn was hard to program for as why it failed, I like to point to the PS2 as it is the most difficult of all three current consoles to develop on.
1) Forget having to run Warp Pipe and offer a genuine network adaptor and build a network for the GameCube. It allows for a new source of possible revenue for Nintendo and would possibly get 3rd party developers to come up with exclusive features for GameCube games, which brings me to... 2) ("The company proclaimed that the Game Boy Advance would be a 'Trojan horse' for the GameCube - but that Trojan horse never opened because very few game designers have figured out cool ways to take advantage of that connectivity.") How about using the feature on sports games to call plays (football games), change lines (hockey games), or change general strategy. It could come in handy for racing games as well, allowing the user to effectively determine what he/she wants done on pit stops (tire compound change, adjustments--could come in handy for a possible NASCAR game). There are countless other applications for this idea of using the Game Boy Advance and its screen to revolutionize how console gamers play games, as well as catch both Sony and M$ with their pants down.
No TiVo and no caffeine make me something something...
From one armchair analyst to another:
I've used my PS2 to play DVDs. It's akin to using my Dreamcast to surf the web; It just isn't worth the effort. Granted I don't have a PS2 DVD remote kit, but the navigation system is terrible out of the box. Better chalk up an extra $15 for the PS2 remote once you realize that it's practically needed.
You're right though. For sixty more than the price of a Gamecube, you can get a DVD player. Heck, you can even get one much cheaper than that if you want. Think about that, a $30 that comes with a remote! You'll pay that much for the Xbox remote alone.
The GC is capable of doing 480p for those HDTV owners. I'm also thinking that anyone who spends the big bucks on an HDTV set will get a decent DVD player instead of relying on their game console to do it for them.
...Nintendo started started saying that if GameCube didn't win Best of Show at the annual Vegas Video Game Conference (OK, I forget what it's called), then they would drop GameCube altogether.
Lo-and-behold, GameCube won.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
MS has a long history of not wanting to/not paying royalties to other companies. Look at what happened to that company Ms licensed the technology off to make IE. The company went bankrupt due to MS refusal to pay royalties owed to them.
the extra price for the remote and dongle is quite expensive I think it sells her for AU$40-50, and once you put it in the xbox hardware-locks onto the region of the dongle. nasty.
~shione
Wrong. They sued for uses of their trademarked logos, screenshots they released for news/review media (which is NOT the same as unofficial strategy guides), and in a very particular case that got Slashdotted (where Daily Radar's parent company, Imagine Media, was sued), the company used the Pokemon trading cards for their pics of the Pokemon, as well as using the actual trademarked Pokemon logo on the unnoficial book.
Funny thing is, when the Daily Radar thing happened, most /. people didn't read what was up, and instantly rallied behind the 'little guy' of Daily Radar (which Nintendo denied screenshots and other products because of their parent comapny's use of Pokemon stuff), and proclaimed Nintendo as the new Satan.
Unofficial stategy guides can be fine... but they need to make their own artwork, not use trademarked logos, etc. In the cases of suing unofficial strategy guide publishers, it is normally because they violate copyright/trademark laws, normally while the game company suing has their own official guide out, or licenses the properties to a publisher. Unofficial guides that rip off the properties steal sales from those actually licensed, and, as such, should be sued out of existance. If they use no screenshots, official artwork, trademarked logos, etc (IE make their own art (costs money), don't have released screenshots (have to make themselves), and use normal letters for trademarked names (people won't notice them)). then fine, but many of the 'unnoficial' guides did use such things without permission, and deserved to be sued.
While Nintendo claims that the proprietary GC disc size is to prevent piracy, the more likely reason (since piracy is as rampant now as it is for the other two systems)
Really? While I've heard that ISOs are found here and there, there's no way to replicate the media, or force a full sized burned DVD into a GC. Piracy is all about ease of use. To pirate GC games is a wee bit harder than the other two, and as such is nowhere near as widespread as PS2 and Xbox piracy.
is that Nintendo owns the manufacturing factory for the discs
Um, and Sony outsources for the PS2 (Sony is one of the largest DVD disk manufacturers in the world)? Or Microsoft for the Xbox's prorpietary DVD disks? How is this different for Nintendo, then? That's like saying it's wrong for Warner Bros. to have a DVD making factory or a CD music disk making factory for their respective divisions.
Game publishers don't press their own disks for any console. The consiole manufacturers do. This goes for the Xbox and PS2 as well. Sony and Microsoft own the factories that press their disks; yet its bad that Nintendo does? Grow a brain.
Dragon Ball Z is childish? NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo
I'm 23. I have owned a PS2 for a while now. The games seem kind of stale - not really much to look forward to besides GT4 on that platform.
Between my friends and I we have several PS2s, Several XBoxes and several GameCubes.
We get together once a week to drink beer and play video games. We always play GameCube games. GameCube has the best games for Drinking beer and playing multiplayer games on. Mario Party. Mario Kart.
Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart
Why are you comparing apples to oranges? Surfing the web and playing DVD's on a device that is already hooked up to the television are two different things. You surf mostly at your computer, and wouldnt want to use your dreamcast to do it. You watch movies at your TV, and, in my opinion, would want a PS2 to do it, because its already there. Conveinent, eh? If I am playing a game, then want to surf the web, even though I am sitting on a comfy couch, I just wouldnt want to surf the web, I would see no problem in popping a DVD movie in, because that is where most people watch DVD movies. Im sorry if I missed your point. Why isnt that more of a draw sale wise to be able to play all the games, and for 15$ more get a high quality DVD player, Versus, playing games for 50-60 less, having a smaller library of games to choose from,and having to buy a memory card (Xbox HD? Worth the effort or not, it would still be a better value to Joe Consumer once the price drops, that is my point. I will concede on the HDTV part. I was wrong.
Always funny how an article that goes against the slashdot orthodoxy can generate such a rabid response.
The article does make some good points. The current crop of Gamecube-only titles really are, for the most part, a bunch of remakes of or uninspired sequels to much older games. Mario Sunshine is indistinguishable in all but graphics from Mario 64, while Mario Kart Double Dash is a rather insipid updating of a game that originally appeared on the SNES and has changed very, very little since then. Zelda - Wind Walker was a huge disappointment for me... the gameplay was exactly the same as it's always been and the graphics, to be frank, can't measure up to those of Final Fantasy X, which must be... what... 2 years old now(?). Hell... while Squaresoft are notorious for milking sequels, at least they add a completely new combat system and visual style for pretty much every game.
I've not got a grude against the Cube. I own all three of the current gen consoles and they all get used. The problem is that Sony and Microsoft are just so much better at innovation these days. Sure, the PS2 and Xbox have their own share of uninspired sequels, but the PS2 has really pushed back the boundaries of gaming with accessories such as the Eye Toy and the Xbox has shown that, like it or not, consoles can actually do a decent job of games traditionally associated with desktop systems - see, for example, the recent Crimson Skies, which, in my opinion at least, is comprehensively better than the PC original.
Yesterday, I walked into GAME with 150 in my pocket to pick up some games. I'd meant to buy some Gamecube games, I really had, but every time I picked one up, I realised I already owned it in another guise. Given that GC games seem to be the most expensive (in general) here in the UK, this is a big disincentive to buy. The result - while I came out with games and accessories for the PC, PS2 and Xbox, none of my money went to Nintendo.
Every time I read an article like this (and the inevitable platform bashing and rationalization that ensues) I have to ask myself: isn't there room for three console systems? Aren't people making money selling games for these things?
Isn't choice a GOOD thing?
So WHAT if Nintendo or Xbox are 2nd or 3rd or 5th or whatever. Last I looked, the video game industry is raking in billions per year. Hell, there may even be room for a 4th console (but not that vapor Phantom thing! (: )
You are an idiot. A clueless idiot. Please shut up now.
But the real reason I label them as the losers in this race is that they are the lowest seller. Some people may claim it is a tie between nintendo and MS but I think these people forget the gameboy. Nintendo collects full-price for gameboy games while they cost far less to produce (art is the killer in a game budget and you can only fit so much in a gameboy even an advanced one). So to me nintendo has two consoles out at the moment and those sales combined put it easily ahead of MS and far far closer to sony.
Of course very important to understand is that I am talking of a race or a battle being lost. MS hasn't lost the war. This war has three players and all three will survive to the next battle.
I think for nintendo the next one will be critical. They have two entries and both are contested by sony and one by MS. They have money but not as much as the others.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.