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First Look At Intel Tejas & Socket 775
Anonymous Indian writes "The snoops at Anandtech have unearthed some details and photos of Intel's rumored Tejas 90nm CPU which draws 150 watts of power, a 50% jump compared to Prescott. It's also got an interesting locking mechanism instead of the traditional metal clip from hell for most processors." There's not much info beyond the photos, but it's still interesting to see what lies ahead for Intel.
The both the slashdot sum-up and the linked article fail to explain why, exactly, I should be excited about this.
Looks like a German dental tool.
So much power use from the first 90nm process cpu? There can be only one reason for this... the rumored twin core intel CPU. Let's see how hyperthreading run's on THIS baby!
150 Watts of power? What is Intel thinking?
Looks like the same arm I've seen on every other socket motherboard.
No pins, notches on the side, and a new locking mechanism.. now can they finally get rid of that "Only to be installed by a professional" caption on the damn CPU box?
Is that dissipated heat?
If so, ouch! that system is gonna need a huge heat sink or water cooling will be needed.
I would loves to see standardized water cooling parts for computers.
That way all you would need to do is buy the hosess and your favorite pump.
Regarding those metal clips from hell, I've always wondered why Intel and AMD never followed the examples of Alpha, Sun, SGI, etc. machines. They usually have bolt on heatsinks that either bolt the CPU and heatsink together or sandwich the CPU between the mainboard and the heatsink.
It takes care of the flat head screwdriver ruined mainboard, and there are no clips to break off the socket itself. I'm glad they are finally changing the way x86 sockets work.
Cthulhu Saves.
It's interesting to see how what was once consideres "high-end" eventually makes it's way into the consumer desktop stuff.
For example, this chip appears to use a "pinless" package design. Instead of little pins that fit into the socket, it has little ever-so-slightly raised 'nubs'. These 'nubs' simply sit on top of contact points in the socket.
This pinless design was being used by Compaq for the Alpha CPU as early as 2000, so this isn't a new packaging technology. The only problem Compaq had with it, was keeping all the little 'nubs' firmly in contact with the corresponding points on the socket. They used some sort of plastic clip design at first, which ended up with a high failure rate - not for the CPU, but for the plastic retaining mechanism itself. That's probably why intel is using that big beefy metal retaining clip.
I guess intel learned something from all those Compaq Alpha engineers they bought a few years ago.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
In the pictures, it locks down on the left side and the mechanism covers the CPU. Not many sockets I've seen in the past few years use that, so you must be seeing some special motherboards...
The thing I always liked about Intel chips was their low power absorption and their low heat. Though they're a bit pricy in comparison, AMD chips were power-hungry and thus produced heat as if they had uranium cores.
Intel chips were great for Mini-ITX cube PCs if you didn't want them to burn, as they ran cool enough to easily run with heat pipe technology. They were even better for laptops, since you didn't have them draining the battery like crazy . On the regular PC front, they would famously run cool overclocked to extremes, like from 1.6-2.4 or from 2.2-3.0 on cheap stock cooling alone.
Now, it seems like they've lost that advantage.
Did anyone else get an Athlon 64 ad when they opened the article?
The G5 is the first...
n33t0x0rs. And it also may approach the heating capacity of an AMD chip, so now I'll be able to install an Intel to heat my room instead of my present AMD incumbent.
I find "While it is unlikely that Tejas includes two discreet Prescott cores on die, there is a chance that the two cores (if they exist) could be sharing data caches and maybe other units. A multicore Tejas would explain the jump in power consumption, and it is in line with Intel's strategy although it does seem sooner than expecte" interesting.
The first Pentium was a stripped-together combination of 2 486-like CPUs, with shared parts. To describe this as "two discreet Prescott cores on die... sharing data caches and maybe other units..." brings together this similarity. Perhaps Intel is trying the same strategy in its journey into 64-bitness that it has tried and succeeded at in the past (hedging its bets if its present design doesn't work out too well)? Just a thought, but IMHO not an unreasonable one.
--
FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
He, that is the Spanish (as written on Spain) for Texas.
The Spaniards write Mexico as Mejico.
Just a tidbit for your amusement.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The question here is... how well does it overclock?
Technology rolls on! Great leap forward! And so on.
that's my first thought when I saw the picture. Why the CPU is looking so... um.. dirty (looks like corrosion)? ;) I'm just curious.
;)
I'm not an overclocker specialist, or whatever, and really I don't want to be a troll here
perhaps answer to this question will be modded informative (as this question itself is not
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#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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Is it going to be 64-bit? If not, a new chip is really a waste of money.
By 2006, most everything will be 64-bit, and Intel needs to realize this and stop making 64-bit chips just for the server market.
Well, maybe, there have been problems with heat at the 90nm mark, though there are rumors that Tejas might use dual cores However, the hyperthreading thing would be a bad idea. It would mean that you have 4 logical processors, instead of 2. And with 4 threads running in parallel, there's a good chance that a lot of the time, 2 of those 4 will be identical. All hyperthreading would generate is too much heat.
1.21 jiggawatts?! Where am I going to find that much power!? It's not possible!!
Mini-ITX boards can't handle Intel CPUs. They are designed for VIAs own EDEN CPU.
If this is multi core, which I would love. How are they going to find a market segment to charge high prices for ? I want dual. But with either intel or amd its expensive. In AMD's case the board. Intel now at least has hyperthreading which should fix some sluggishness I feel. So what will differentiate a xenon if there are duals in a core ? An extra processor will mean alot less to a workstation or some servers if there is already a dual in a single core.
cool!
150 W? What does that Tejas thing have, a Electric Chair Inside ?
I, for one, welcome these ads.
Mod parent as troll.
Why should it be modded as a 'troll'? just because it betrayed some lack of knowledge about CPU design? I think your post should be modded as troll.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I can see them trying, but I don't really see it. Hyperthreading as it is generates a lot of extra heat that isn't exactly proportional to the performance gain (I've noticed this on my own 2.8C). I know there are some dual Xeon systems that have hyperthreading enabled, so they must have partially addressed the problem the inquirer put as...
"An instruction thread might well favour one kind of execution unit, but who's to say the other threads, the ones that are running in parallel with the 'troublesome' one, won't be favouring the same execution units? Assume you've got two cores per die, and that's two threads running simultaneously. Chuck in Intel's much-touted HyperThreading technology and you'll have four threads being processed in parallel, two per core, all being 'hopped'. Chances are that at least two of them will be using the same execution units, so swapping them round isn't going to change anything."
But in a dual core system, heat is a much bigger problem, so it would make more sense to up the clock speed over enabling hyperthreading whereas the heat on a dual Xeon would be easier to eliminate because there are 2 processors with their own cooling solutions. There's also the issue that stardard operating systems don't support 4-way systems for residential computing. There's also the fact that Intel COO Paul Otellini said "We'll go from putting HyperThreading in our products to putting dual-core capability in our mainstream client processors over time." That implies that hyperthreading is used as a stepping stone for the consumer, as some programmers optimize their code to be run on hyperthreaded systems, it will also boost performance on future dual core systems. Anyone else have any ideas?
I take back this last post, my other post in this thread is better.
I've got Mandrake 9.2rc-1 AMD64 on my dual opteron system. It's running legacy 32-bit code (Seti) perfectly fine alongside the newly compiled 64-bit stuff.
What indications are there that everything's going to be 64-bit? It's been 32-bit for a while now, and if Intel doesn't go 64-bit the rest of the world might wait until they do. Intel controls the majority of the market, and they have enough power keep trends suppressed for a while (or try to start new trends, and keep them much more alive than they need to be, *cough* RDRAM *cough*). There's rumors that there will be 64-bit instructions that one could somehow add-on to the prescott, but I don't know how it would work, as Intel is keeping everything tight-lipped.
/.ers, but companies like Microsoft which is making a 64-bit version of XP for AMD64).
Heck, if they wanted, they could create their own 64-bit instructions and pull the rug out from under the AMD64's feet. But I don't see that happening, as everyone would not like that (not just
They use less Watts and activily want to reduce this as well plus the cost of owning a mac when comparing electricity consumption would work out cheaper as well.
Jonathanjk.com
I've gone to AMD related articles and gotten Intel adds so many times I got used to it. I'm glad to see the opposite happening. I just hope in Q2 they start advertising so that AMD64 really takes off and 64 bit software will become very mainstream. The reason I say Q2 is that this is when the socket shakedown should be over and the windows alternative will be available.
:)
Let's face it. Those of us on slashdot are the ones most likely to be utilizing the new 64 bitness.
Paul
Intels 64 bit solution is the Itanium (which, along with HP, they invested around $10 Billion). Intel is in a bind in that Microsoft will not tolerate another 64 bit instruction set and Intel would be shooting Itanium in the foot to use AMD64 (which they are a licensee of).
Maybe they will support AMD64 or maybe they wont, but they will not create ANOTHER 64 bit ISA and we will not be seeing an Itanium for the average user (it is way too expensive to produce and a royal bitch to program for).
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Computing Power just took on an entirely different meaning.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
The roadmaps of the Big Behemoths have been synchronized a long time ago. I'm waiting for the first movie where loss of privacy and omnipresent surveillance cameras are a good thing.
How many energy-company-stocks do the Intel techies own?
were the late 80's and early 90's, when the ruble was so worthless that people would melt down the various denominations of coins, and get more money back for the metal ingot.
And at 150 watts, you could probably do the melting on top of one of these new CPUs.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
2/27/2003:, 3973,900185, 00.asp/ cpu/display/200310110 84615.htmlt ag=Tejas
:)
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0
10/11/2003:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news
misc:
http://endian.net/details.asp?
So it looks like it will come in in 2005 instead of the original 2H 2004. It'll have 24k L1 instead of 8k or 16k like current and prescott have. When it is made at 65nm insteadof 90nm it'll have 2megs L2 instead of 1meg.
It should start eventually run as high as 5Ghz. Maybe that is on the 65nm process years from now? Bus speed should be 1066Mhz (266*4) or 1200.
It should have some new instructions in order to make life harder for AMD.
Fortunately for AMD Prescott was already supposed to be shipping at 3.8Ghz, but Intel is a bit behind on their road map too
so that consumers can also cook on them with easy cleanup?
does it run linux?
I don't think there will be a problem air cooling this CPU. The only thing that will change is that the default heatsink will have to be upgraded and thus increasing the price by $40 or so. My CPU probably using 80W or so at full load and I can easily cool it with a SLK-900U and a 1000 rpm 92 mm fan. The fan is definitely inaudible. The heatsink weighs in at 1 lb of copper and $50, however. I can see myself cooling this new CPU with the same heatsink and a 4-5000 rpm fan. That's alot of noise though...maybe water will be the default cooling in the future?
"Listen, now, the gov'nah's still really gettin' a kick outta fryin' you, but we need to save some money. We're just gonna get you to bend down and lick this Tejas CPU, a'right?"
Prescott has 64-bit instructions they are just turned off. At some point Intel will enable them for new chips. The original Pentium 4 had hyper threading in its core but it was turned off until the 3.06ghz chip was made. If Tejas is a generation after Prescott it most likely has 64-bit instructions on the core although they may or may not be enabled.
http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105063294
http://www.x86-secret.com/
Apparently anandtech is showing a prescott?
Never, never, NEVER ship an assembled computer.
What the hell were you thinking!?
Sorry but I am responding to both your posts, dont hate me. I am complaining both about your non link urls and Slahdot's inability to convert them to links...
If you are going to post urls, you might as well put the link tags in there...
BUT! why doesn't slashdot auto convert URLs to links?? Come on, forum software, even the really crappy ones, have had that feature for ages.
Why doesn't slashdot auto convert URLs to links?? Come on, forum software, even the really crappy ones, have had that feature for ages.
Anyone know what they blocked out in the socket picture?
What could possibly be there that they wouldn't want us to see? Or is is that they're not allowed to show us?
Huh?
The old joke was the furniture factory was first of all measured by total product weight, so it made tables too heavy to get out the door. Then it was measured by quantity of goods, so it made chairs out of so little wood that they collapsed when anyone sat on them. Finally in despair the central planners decided to use the final product value as a measure. Next thing, the factory manager is phoning up the materials supply commissar: "Where can I get solid gold nails?".
It's patently obvious that, in the context of the Soviet Economy, Ivan Ivanovitch would not have been better off melting down his tractor because (a) he didn't have access to a smelter and (b) it wasn't his tractor, it belonged to the collective and (c) there was no internal private market for steel and (d) he would have been shot for economic sabotage.
So, dear moderators, before you moderate anything about "Soviet Russia" informative, try actually getting a clue about what Communism was, why it was remarkably widespread (given its faults) for so long, and why in the end its internal contradictions destroyed it. Then you might learn to distinguish a troll from information.
You might also consider that in many ways Soviet Russia was not backward. It was backward compared to Europe, Japan and the US but - heck - before the Revolution Russia was more backward than India. The Soviet Union produced some fairly decent cameras, some remarkably advanced military aircraft and helicopters (some of which I have been in and survived), some useful surface to air missiles, some working nuclear subs, and enough ICBMs to scare the shits out of the US military. It just forgot the living standards and human rights of its population, failed to deal with mundane issues like delivering food and clothes efficiently, and came up with a system of government that owed much to Tiberius Caesar and not much to the ideas of Karl Marx.
As for the original pster - go and look up "hubris" in the dictionary.
Have you been living under a rock? Plutonium has been available in corner drugstores since 1985.
cost.
A lot of heat goes out through the pins into the traces on the motherboard. More than you might think. Many chips are cooled solely by being attached to the large ground plane on the motherboard.
RTFA: They didnt want to get the company that showed them the processor in trouble, so the serials are blurred.
if you guys would take a look at EE times once in a while you would know that fabs are having big problems with leakage currents at the 90 and 65 nm nodes... (even when the transistors are "off" the still leak like a fuc*ing sieve. thats why they're all trying to get silicon on insulator and new transistor structures into production... considering that this is an alpha part in a new process I wouldn't try to infer anything from that level of power disipation.. why do you think they only shipped a grand total of 10 of them???
It's an ENRON's conspiracy when Bush was in Texas.
:P
I am a Mexican that has been many time in Spain.
Believe me, I do know how the Spaniards write Texas (Tejas, tyup, that is tiles) and Mexico (Mejico). This is the source of regular linguistical controversy.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Wouldn't this make the CPU the socket, if the pins are on the motherboard?
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51