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RFID Tags For The Rich
Greedo writes "While reading this piece about designing 'experiences' in the Globe and Mail, I came across this interesting tidbit: If you're a frequent Prada shopper (and who on /. isn't?), the loyalty card in your wallet or purse contains a RFID tag that announces your arrival in the store. When you encounter a saleswoman, her handheld computer brings up your tastes, buying history, vital statistics and personalized suggestions from in-stock and coming inventory; the handhelds also place orders and book change rooms. Every item for sale bears an RFID tag. The RFID tags are courtesy of IDEO, and their website has a nice write-up of all the RFID-powered stuff at Prada, including the changeroom! I'm guessing this isn't coming to Wal*Mart's changerooms when they implement RFID. (Another write-up can be found here.)"
So what would it take to create a small device to send out random RDIF signals (a 'white noise' generator)?
Yet another attempt to add the personal touch to the cold world of business.
I'm not trying to flamebait, just make an observation. The days of going to your friendly local are over, and now the store assistants don't even need to think or recognise, they simply wrap digital information in comforting words and give you a nice smile.
...of the scene in Minority Report where he walks into The Gap and based on his retina scan is offered another set of pants similar to the ones he's bought there before...
It creeped me out then and it creeps me out now.
Winona Ryder's Lawyer: Your honor, my client wasn't stealing, she just thought stores worked that way.
I have it on good authority (from an ex apple store employee) that Apple's stores in the US also use these tags, and frequently.
Of course I don't expect to see a negative view of that here, being Apple and all.
My login name for Amazon.com does the same thing when I walk through the door of their e-Store. GOD HELP US ALL THEY ARE AFTER US!!!11!
1. Tag the rich
2. Track their locations
3. Take incriminating paparazzi pictures
4. ????
5. Profit!
John.
What's involved in reading an RFID? Is there a standard on what is on an RFID, with vendor ID's set aside as in Ethernet MAC addresses, or is it just a generic number format like with barcodes?
It would be interesting to get a nice, sensitive, portable RFID antenna hooked up to a laptop and go, uhm, war-walking...
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
If I only had the money, I would complaint about privacy violation at my local friendly Prada boutique.
Ok. So what if the customer totally changed his/her shopping habits? DaddyMoreBucks' 15 year old daughter might suddenly decide she wants to look (gothic/punk/gansta/whatever) instead of (gothic/punk/gansta/whatever). Doesn't seem like she'd be too keen on being haggled to buy something she's trying to change from.
And at Barney's, they just knock you over, slip a collar around your neck, pick you up and let you continue shopping. No "Excuse me, it's store policy" or anything.
When I buy pants from Target I get to simply tap on a small device outside the changing rooms which, upon generating a small noise, identifies me to the salespeople as needing access. They then use one of their access control devices to allow me to gain access to the room.
Don't even get me started on the 'pants restraining device' that wraps around my waist.
changing room: I'm sorry m'am, but we have you at a size 10, but you have 5 items that are a size 5, you are either trying to steal these items are you are about to ruin these items by trying them on.
customer: open the changing room doors please
changing room: I'm sorry, I can't do that
Some people seem to think anything RFID has to be bad. This proves that doesn't have to be the case. These folks are open about the use of the RFIDs and they use it to provide real value to the customer. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
Compare/contrast to Wal-Mart which isn't open about the use of RFIDs and doesn't give the customer anything of value when they're installed. Since the customer knows nothing about the RFIDs, they don't have real choice in whether they want "to participate" in potentially privacy invading information gathering. Prada, by being open about the tags, alows the customer to simply shop somewhere else if they don't like them.
TW
Just listen to this other real human being who have successfully shopped for an article of clothing at Prada:
"I enjoyed my experience at Prada, and especially the changing rooms. When I had completed my trying on of an article of clothing, I was free to leave, uncooked and totally alive. It is a good store."
So take it from me, Zalgon-23-Prada: our changing rooms are the best! In fact, you should go in them even if you have no intention of trying on any articles of human clothing. I should know, as I am a human being just like yourself.
"I see you're trying to put your trousers on two legs at a time."
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
and welcome to WalMart. My name is Cletis and I will be your personal saleman. Your most recent purchases include one Remington Bolt Action 700 CDL, two First Response Pregnancy Tests, and a case of motor oil. [Click, click, click] Can I interest you in a 1 Gallon Jar of Pickles?
sig
>>The dressing rooms also contain a video-based "Magic Mirror" which allows a customer to see an image of their back. The video-feed is also forwarded to Prada's central data bank, where it is stored for future sale to various tabloids.
They don't care how they look in that Prada or D&G or whatever it is they're wearing as long as it's the latest designs. In fact, I doubt most of them would want to see a picture of their behinds because they'll suddenly start feeling fat or something. What they want is for the salesgirl to say "Oh, yes, you look fabulous in that! And so slim! And that color really brings out your eyes! Yes, it's really you!"
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
...part of me says, who cares?
Yes yes, I see the privacy concerns. But on the other hand, people in stores currently aren't exactly trying to remember who you are and what you like. If they have a palm whatever to give them a better understanding of your tastes, they can be far more helpful in less time.
Getting past the personal buying history, however, those dressing rooms are certainly okay in my book. I like the idea of tags in the clothing displaying information on a screen, and come on... that "magic mirror" would make trying on clothing so much more enjoyable an experience. (At least, for those of us who actually care enough to put some effort in the way we dress.)
"if Fortune 500 CEOs sought it out to feed their children, the world would follow"
The frequent Prada shopper does not just shop in one city. They will expect the same level of 'courteous' service in New York, Paris, Los Angeles, and perhaps Milan; these RFID tags will give it to them.
It's not all that bad of an idea. I suspect that these shoppers will not be plagued with advertisements or other spam; they are rich, after all, and not the average dime-a-dozen consumer. The advertisers will be desperate not to offend them.
==============
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Ought to get some cute replies from anyone behind the counter then... "Oh hey mister Baggins... Just wondering though, you might be interested in a nuclear warhead, Thunderbird 1 and screwing my sist- ..."
Hate me!
1. learn prada's RFID tags
2. scan random people for them
3. mug the people who have them
Nice simple way to know who's got $$ and who hasn't. Random credit card numbers might be nice if you only want a few hundred from each of them, but oh what a platinum visa might be worth.
...wrapping all my credit cards in aluminum foil.
How can Prada afford all this technology and still only charge $1000.00 for a handbag?
shopper: I'll take this in a size four!
salesgirl: she's at least a ten Of course, madame. discreetly removes size label. Here you go. Size four!
Same principle with shoes.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
I think the very wealthy send personal shoppers to stores and accept/reject the new clothing in their own homes.
And that's for ready-to-wear. For tailored stuff (and who isn't rich and wearing custom tailored suits?), the tailor or his sizing rep comes to your house and measures you, shows fabric samples, and then comes back with finished clothes for final fitting.
Actually going to a store and having to disrobe in a changing room, interact with other people and have strangers around you isn't what people with real money do. There may be some stores that are far from home or impractical for personal shoppers, so in that case, you pack up your entourage, rent a few suites at the Plaza and have stuff brought to your room.
I'm tempted to go to Prada just to see the "mirror." For it to be a convincing substitute, you'd want a full length screen of some sort. Hard to believe thay've managed that so what exactly are you looking at when you look at the "mirror?"
Speaking of mirrors, an old girlfriend loved the mirror in my apartment because for some reason it flattered her coloring - she just looked better in the mirror than she actually did. I can see the "magic mirror" playing games of that sort as well - hiding blemishes, slimming the wearer etc.
I've often thought that when you go into a fast food place (for example), the cash register should customize itself to your preferred menu items. You should be able to say, "I'd like my #6, please" and not have to say, "Big Breakfast, no hash browns, add a side of bacon, medium Diet Coke", and then later have to explain what they did wrong.
It would clearly save money for the retailer, as the ordering process would be quicker and more accurate. It would improve the customer "experience" too.
Instead of having the merchant suggest these items based on your past buying habits (intrusive), you could go to their website to set up your custom choices (say up to 6) and change them as often as you want. The clerks don't need to deal with the fact that everyone's choices are different, as the keys themselves change meaning when your RFID walks up to the register.
The connection there is real. Now people aim to replace that with a wire in a piece of plastic, just as they're replacing living wage jobs with permatemp spots or part time people working close to full time schedules. If you think the negative part of this story is RFID, which is just brand new fuel for the paranoid that'll in actual practice do more to save money than invade privacy, think again; it's about subjugating another fulfilling business practice to a cookie-cutter scheme that anybody who can fog a mirror can perform.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
I can see/hear it now. You walk in the store and this kind of thing happens:
"Hello, Mr. Jackson. How do you like that pair of cotton boys underwear you bought last week?"
or
"Hello, Mr. Clinton. Are you back for another blue dress?"
or
"Hi, Mr. Timberlake. Looking for another one of those fabulous snap-apart bustiers?"
I don't think this idea will last very long..
Geoffeg
From the article, the changing rooms are made of clear glass that goes opaque when you and your RFID tag enter. "Once inside, the customer can switch the doors back to transparent at the touch of a switch, exposing themselves to onlookers waiting outside the room."
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
You shall see a cow on the roof of a cotton house.
Small, isolated? Try 1 block from downtown financial center. Not a high-end clothes shop, either. No sir- a deli.
I started stopping there for a egg/bacon/cheese bagel, and on the second day- the woman looked at me and said "egg bacon cheese bagel, and an OJ, right?" Third day, i got a warm greeting and I knew she still remembered. This isn't a small place- it's directly across from South Station, and opposite One Financial Center. A lot of construction-guy types from the Big Dig and area renovation go there, as do limo drivers and local/state cops. The place is almost always bustling, and I've seen other customers get the same recognition.
All of this just goes to show that if you want to be successful, it's all about establishing a relationship with the customer, and that's the job of the sales person. It can't be automated, because if the customer sniffs that- they suddenly realize they're just a sheep of hundreds and they're not impressed in the slightest beyond the gee-gaw gadgetry of it all.
Who do you think will establish more long-term relationships at a high-end clothier- the salesperson with this palm thingy who does the in-person version of "let me pull up your records", or the salesperson who turns around, recognizes an important customer, and says, "Ah, Mr. Jones! Good to see you again. How did the alterations work on your dinner jacket?"
Please help metamoderate.
Why can't we just tag rich people the old fashioned way, by knocking them out with tranquilizer darts and stapling plastic bracelets around their ankles while they're asleep? It works pretty well with grizzlies...
What if significant numbers of people could be induced to (unwittingly) ingest RFID chips? We could scan pedestrian traffic choke-points for consumers of anything that is swallowed whole - club drugs, over the counter pharmaceuticals, happy hour tacos... The mind reels.
Ye know not the power of small-town gossip.
It's not what you know they're doing with it -- it's what you don't know about that they're doing with it.
For instance, I heard that Giant [the grocery store chain] made more last year selling data about their customers than in profits from items sold in their store. In some ways, this is good to the customers, as it allows them to find an alternate revenue stream, and keep their prices down.
But it's not spun like that. Hell, in this case, it's not even mentioned, so in my opinion, it's worse than them placing ads on shopping carts. And I've personally been creeped out when they scanned my card before ringing up any merchandice, and of the four coupons their system spat out -- three of them were items I had on the conveyor belt, that had yet to be rung up.
Of course, I didn't like their spin on the cards, either. Probably because they were behind the curve, when I had who knows how many cards for every other business. [book store frequent buyers card, air lines, a couple other grocery stores]. At least with Safeway, the card was an alternative to needing to clip coupons from the book they'd send you each month. And with Kroger, they gave you a little keychain thing, and they guaranteed postage if it was dropped in a mailbox, so they could return your keys to you.
But I'm still not convinced that your health insurance won't go up if you start buying medical supplies and scan your card in. [or cigarettes]
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
They book change rooms? What are people doing in there? Having high tea? Holding a seance? Reading SCO legal documants?
I had my birthday party in a Prada changing room, you insensitive clod!
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Mwaha.
For those of you that aren't Canadian, or have never heard of Radio Free Vestibule (I think they're just called 'Vestibule' now), this comes from one of their sketches. Zalgon-26 McGee's fine clothing!
1. Steal RFID database, buy scanner.
2. Park van in front of exclusive boutique.
3. Wait for mark with lots of money, then snatch them.
4. ??????? (demand ransom, or make Paris Hilton video)
5. Profit!
I liked the part about how the "customer can switch the doors back to transparent at the touch of a switch, exposing themselves to onlookers waiting outside the room."
RFID tags are cool and all, and I think they're destined to have a lot of great apps, but this is NOT one of them.
Never mind the privacy concerns, lots of people will take up that charge. Stores will end up doing custom pricing with this. Wouldn't be hard to say, "Hey, this guy bought a big screen TV last time... when he checks this price, it'll be full retail". Of course, they might offer a discount at times, but I seriously doubt it.
Another thing, the last thing I want to do is to have to chase down a salesperson to find an item just because they're glad-handing a previous customer. Worse, I don't want salespeople slithering up and acting like a best friend just because they happen to have your info.
Being rich and being tracked is something of a resonant cycle. Frequent flyer miles, credit card bonuses, all manner of marketing perks and tie-ins, cobranded water, corporate discounts. Of course, the truly rich have personal shopper proxies, and themselves are not truly tracked - they can afford their privacy. But the "pretty rich", like the 90-98%ile Americans, are on the marketers' radar every minute, induced to report with a steady flow of "freebies" to gain their brand affinity and detect their tastemaking activities. The result is often a global disneyworld, where the only "choices" are designed by the marketers, and the "real world" never peeks through.
--
make install -not war
If you're a Gates or a Getty and you walk into the Prada store, you'll expect damn good service with or without an RFID tag. Stores with massive margins don't need technology; they need fawning, supplicant employees who can flatter customers into coughing up $6000 for a handbag.
Considering Bananna Republic*(maybe only for petites, I'll have to check) and Land's End*(I think) have free return shipping back, its a no brainer.
I don't go to malls; the clothes come to me. Thanks Internet!
Whats scary is that J.Crew not only sent my wife a thank you letter for being a valued customer, but Bananna Republic online sent her a Christmas gift. Me thinks its time to hide those credit cards...
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Store clerks remembered who you were and got to know you on a personal basis, and could do everything this RFID stuff enables total strangers to do for you now. But times have changed and people don't stay in the same job for 40 years and people don't shop at the same place or even live in the same city their whole lives. When that changed, people bemoaned how alienating modernity was.
Maybe this will start to change now that we have high tech eyes watching our every move.
But... it's just off-putting that someone you don't know well has all this information about you. I don't care really if my tailor of some decades of acquaintance knows some personal details about me, like my left leg is shorter than my right leg. I worry, though, when that information get collected into a big system and combined with all sorts of other information from who knows where.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I wonder if it would be possible to set up a home inventory using RFID tags. Put one on everything you own, then use trianglation to map out the position of everything in your home. Loose your keys? No problem. Just fire up the handheld, connect to the server, run an RF ping and run a search on "keys". I don't fear the misuse of RFID (well, too much) but I don't think many of the people using them really have an idea of how much fun they could be!
If I could get a firm grip on reality, I'd choke it...
and take it from there, even if it's his first day on the job.
Clerk reads screen, looks up to see two people walking in the door, a man and a woman. Clerk walks over to man and says "Good to see you again Mr. Jones!"
Girl says "Mr. Jones is my Dad and he gave me his card, this is just the guy I'm banging to piss him off. Now bring me your most expensive purse!"
It's still better for the clerk to know the customer personally, but yeah, this system is probably a good thing.
you're all figments of my deranged imagination
> what, is Prada?
A clothing line for people who think they are important, like Gucci. Some people claim they are better quality, while most realize it's a bunch of hooey just to raise the price of a shirt 100x.
Gap already knows I like scantily clad saleswomen .... it's why they won't allow me in the store anymore. :(
you're all figments of my deranged imagination
Although I love good shoes (I'm a recent leather sole convert) I find Prada to be too contemporary for my tastes, but their web site is a joke. I scanned about with my mouse for the magic pixel to let me in, but I don't see it. Maybe it just isn't friendly to safari on the Mac.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
Not so. In fact I'm a capitalist myself. I have to be to maintain my "poor" lifestyle, as I'm no "survivalist."
For instance, I may make my own clothes but I do not make my own fabric. That, on the whole, is robotic meanial labor better done by a machine than some poor bastard of a worker who's going to die from breathing cotton fibers all his short, miserable life.
That machine requires capital which must be recovered through sales. So I produce some extra food, sell it, and buy my cloth.
Or I fix someone's computer. My skills are high tech as well as low. I'm no Luddite either.
I assembled my own computer, but I certainly didn't make the cpu. I bought it. Time-Warner has expended a good deal of capital, and continues to do so, so that I may connect to the internet. I pay them for my connection. Nothing wrong with that.
I built my bicycle frame, but I certainly didn't make the tubing. Reynolds can do that far better than I could ever hope to dream of doing it. Nor did I make my welding torch.
No, capitalism isn't harmed by my way of life, although it destroys markets like Prada's, those markets that exist to charge $100 for something that can be had for $20.
Top down heirarchy is.
Yes, then most of the rich wouldn't be quite so rich.
KFG
First of all you don't entirely need them. I already know for a fact that you read stories on slashdot about RFID tags! I can also surmise that a few of the posters are buying more tinfoil than they would normally need.
RFIDS? What do you think cookies are? The concept of RFIDs has efectively been on the net for years. And for you tinfoil hat ppl: They have been monitoring us liek rats for years... people have been taken, things have been done to them, now there walking gap advertisements...
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Nobody can pronounce my name on the first try without being born to it. The poor clerks at Safeway have enough to do without trying to learn how! Maybe Prada had better put a phonetic spelling in their records.
This could be really fun at a snob shop like Prada. I now nobody here has signed their loyalty cards as "Frodo Bigbutt," "Billy Bob Gates," or anything like that. let's see the Pradadroid say that out loud! Or would they have the nerve to call BS?
It would be nice to be rich and have absolutely no shame.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
Why bother with a flesh-and-blood sales clerk at all? Hook the reader into a database and a monitor. You can even put a nice smiling emoticon on the monitor for that friendly touch.
I'm guessing this isn't coming to Wal*Mart's changerooms when they implement RFID.
Wal*Mart has changing rooms!? Wow that could have saved me indecent exposure charge from the San Ramon County Police! Now you tell me! : P
-Jason
Due to price tags that automatically go up in proportion to the amount of your available credit....
In response to many of the posts above, this anonymous coward who has worked extensively with supply chain rfid solutions would like to submit the following:
4 /1/2/ for more info and a link to a major newspaper story
_ WalMart was testing RFID retail solutions on individual products BEFORE they pulled back from the gillette tag project. See http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/articleview/65
_ Data collected by RFID in the retail environment is pretty inocuous compared to what is already collected. Wheter you use a 'club card' or not, if you've ever payed for a purchase with a credit card there is a name & address associated to your detailed purchases.
_ RFID tags can't be read by potential theives or evil conmen. The technology as-is is pretty crappy right now, and the range required to read tags small enough to fit on an individual product is within a couple inches. Portals/readers have to be specifically tuned to certin tag formats as well. Suffice to say, unless the 'evil doers' have the ability to hold the actual item -- and the right hardware to read the specific tag, they dont have a shot in hell at reading it. If that doesn't address your concerns, then how about this: newer tags implement self-destructing features, that allow a 'die now' command to be sent when scanning to render them useless -- just to be safe.
_ RFID tags function poorly around metals and machinery from interference. They're pretty bad around water and paper/wood too.
_ Everyone touts the Prada store's accomplishments for the past two years. Its old news -- and no one ever mentions that the stuff never works. Go by the store, ask for a demonstration. Watch the employees cross their fingers or laugh. Go on... The Prada store is only functional as a PR piece.
All of the outcry and reservations about RFID is just plain stupid -- the technology only makes current supply chain tasks easier. The only negative effect on consumer privacy they exert, is detracting attention from the invasive climate THAT ALREADY EXISTS.