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GEOS Available for Download After 18 Years
gp writes "Back in 1986, Berkeley Softworks presented GEOS,
the Graphical Environment Operating System for the Commodore 64 (screenshots). GEOS
effectively turned the 8-bit Commodore 64 into something very similar to a
Macintosh, but for an 8th of the price. In 2004, pushed hard by
rivaling C64 open source alternatives such as the Contiki operating system and
desktop environment and the LUnix *nix clone, the owners of
GEOS have finally decided to release GEOS to the public. Hordes of
Commodore 64 users are expected to download the system." Sadly, there's no mention of GEOS for the Apple 2 series of computers, which also enjoyed this fine precursor of GUIs to come.
look out XP!!
So somebody *did* get that leaked NT code to compile?
Is there really THAT much pressure among C64 OS's?
Anyone who's got a CatWeasel MK3 card in a Windows PC should visit Jens' site and get the skinny on Arjuna. I got it running last weekend and I've written a few C64 disks using a normal 1.2MB floppy drive. Should help get GEOS onto a real C64. Now I just need GEOS drivers and software for the RR-Net cart. Not that Contiki isn't good too, but it would be really nice if the extra RAM in the Retro Replay cart was used to improve the web browser.
"Hordes of Commodore 64 users are expected to download the system."
Watch out, I hope their web servers will be capable of handling all 23 downloaders.
12 Commodores in the trash can near our housee. Know I have use for them. And willing to share!
SHE does throw dice.
I had a Commodore 64 as a kid. I remember when GEOS came out, I was so impressed. The Mac Plus gave me computer envy, but here was a windowing system I could put on my $200 computer! It was small and fast, and it came with a basic set of tools. It was also fairly easy to learn the programming interface.
Later, in the mid 90s, I met a guy who had it installed on an Intel box. I had no idea at the time that they made a 386 version. It did everything he needed, mostly writing. This was a guy who administered SCO Unix boxes for an ISP, and he used GEOS at home.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Great, I can download GEOS. Now how do I get it on a single sided, strangely formated, low density floppy so that I can actually run it on my C64?
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Believe it or not, the GEOS codebase is still alive and kicking. I haven't gotten around to trying it personally, but it's supposedly updated for modern hardware and is capable of browsing the web. Breadbox, the company that apparently owns the code now is marketing it as a low-cost alternative to Windows for schools that could be run on older hardware. Interesting in the least.
This looks like it could have actually gone pretty far had it had a chance. As a cheap alternative to an apple it looks like it had some good functionality. Does anyone know what the reliability of this OS was like. It says that it provided some decent support for 286/386. Its a shame that this wasnt given the support that it deserved. WHo knows what it could have been capable of. I suppose most people rejhected it as the C64 was mainly for gaming, at least when i was a kid it was. If i had known it was around, and i had more interest in OS', this probably would have ended up in my living room. Its been a while, but its still good to see what some of the pioneers were capable of.
Whatever happened to GeoWorks Ensemble, the version of GEOS that ran on low-end intel/amd boxes? Once upon a time you could load that onto a 386 and it would make a Pentium-based Windows machine look like it was standing still.
I'm looking for Geoworks to throw onto some 486's I want to bring back to life -- the last version I remember had a web-browser and everything!
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Berkley Softworks developed C64-Geos, which was also ported to the Apple and such, and then all through the 80s worked on their next accomplishment: Geos for the PC.
When released, it was the first commercial object oriented OS for the PC (NeXTStep was earlier, but Geos beat it to the PC).
And honestly, it kicked BUTT, because not only was it fast and elegant, it had a KILLER application suite and awesome dot matrix printer driver. Near laser quality from a mere 24-pin and my old '286... And it ran as a DOS application, too, with special drivers to make it cooperate with DR-DOS' task switcher.
I miss it now.
-Billy
LOAD "GEOS",8,1
POKE "SCO","SHARP STICK"
ahhh yes...
Reminds me of today, booting WindowsXP on a 3Ghz machine... the 2 minute disk loads, the disk swapping bah!
I remember using a joystick to navigate the UI, since mice were a bit of a rarity. Plus, GeoWrite actually had fonts to choose from, and they looked great on the trusty old dot-matrix (or 'impact printer', if you will...)
I am Jack's witty signature line
Can someone post instructions on how to get this set up with an emulator like CCS64? We don't want to have to wade through that ten page explanation on how to use a real C64, copying around floppies, etc. to check this out.
The Apple II version was released 6 months ago. as announced on a2central.com
"The price has been reduced to a very affordable $25 (plus shipping) for either version, GEOS 64 or GEOS 128."
Does that makes the TCO (total cost of ownership) more than Linux?
I'm loathe to admit this now, but I was one of the very first subscribers (I think the first -- not sure about the whole Quantum service and prehistory) to AOL in my town. This was before the Windows version, and the DOS version was actually a GeoWorks app. Or rather, it came with a GeoWorks runtime, which wasn't good for anyone else. I remember thinking it was really cool.
I was also on the beta team for AOL for Windows 1.0.
Damn I'm lame.
...the server's /.'d. And after only 80 replies, too.
That's what you get when you actually host a website on a C64 running Contiki...
The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
I'm willing to bet there are a good number of /. readers that are younger than GEOS (I'm not one of 'em). It's an interesting reminder of just how far computers have come.
the latest incarnation of Geos for x86, New Deal Office, is still not released for free =( it's a neat OS that's very win95 like... even has a MS Office clone, web browser, irc, and instant messaging software. all this, and it runs on a 286! supports all kinds of graphics modes from hercules up to svga
I think they went outta business... they were charging way too much for it. might as well buy a new computer with win95 than pay for what they were asking for.
they had a demo avail on the net... I could never get the web browser to work. expired in 30 days or something, but that was extremely easy to turn off. I think the evaluation version was crippled (or was missing files), nonetheless.
Geoworks was certainly an early pioneer in one area: unimaginative name conventions for its apps. Looking at the screenshots page, every damn app is geoThis, or geoThat. It's a wonderful trend that the KDesigners of the KDE KDestop KEnvironment have picked up one, as well as their GCompetitors Gover Gat Gthe GNOME GProject. And don't get me JStarted Jon Java JApplications.
the fact that the authors of this (ahead of its time) platform are nobodys, and bill gates is a household name is quite sad.
There is a C=1 coming out sometime. It's going to have a complete C64 compatability with updated hardware plus it's own functionality. GEOS64 should run on it also. Something for that "ultra geek" in your life.... hehehehehe....
GEOS worked well if you had the hardware.
My setup was a Commodore 64C, two 1541 disk drives (one 1541, and one 1541-II), and a 1764 RAM Expansion Unit (256K). I used a program called Maverick (which included a utility called geoBoot I think) that would allow me to make custom boot disks for GEOS - once the GEOS kernel initialized, Maverick would interrupt it, and dump it out to floppy, thus making a 30KB or so program to run.
Those were the days... I learned some of the GUI programming concepts that I use today in writing a Desk Accessory (a word counting program for geoWrite). I loved the environment of geoProgrammer, although using geoWrite for a source code editor was a bit painful (but, with the REU, it wasn't so bad).
Hmmm, I wonder if this would work under VICE? The GEOS fast-disk routines were very timing specific, so it might not. Maybe I'll give it a try.
-- Joe
yeah, now Junis or Akbar or whoever you refer to can watch it through PETSCIIlib :P
Join the TWIT army now!
You do what most people who play C64 these days do, you emulate it. Even a pathetically old PC should ahve no trouble at all emulating a C64, and there is no lack of C64 emulators out there (www.zophar.net if you are interested).
Then again, maybe you do use C64 hardware, I've heard stranger thigns. I still remember playing a MUD in 1997, Realms of Despair. One of the guys I regularly hung out with had many characters, but only ever had one at a time on. Odd, that, as teh MUD let you log plenty in and even with a crap modem like I had you could handle lots. I mean it was just text after all. Turned out he used a C128 to connect to the net via a dialin that gave him a UNIX prompt. I was honestly stunned.
You know I still have a c64. Good got that out of the way.
I noticed that there are still Demo groups out there, specialy in Europe. I must say I'm still impressed as to what these programmers can do on a little 8-bit CPU. It think it's true are and skill to pack so much "entertainment" into a small amount of memory. Just because the CPU might be so many years old, but it can still do so much. Proof I think at the fact that technology may be increasing so fast that we don't use it to its fullest potential.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
hell yeah, i *loved* geoworks ensemble. i had a 286-20, it ran great. the integration between all of its office applications and the fact that it actually did preemptive multitasking of them was great. printing in the background (very important considering how "fast" dot matrix and hp deskjet printers of the day weren't), etc. excellent piece of work but in the wrong place at the wrong time to be able to catch on.
it even ran in the cool 800x600x16 vga mode if your monitor supported it.
another odd footnote: AOL's first client for the PC was written as a geoworks ensemble 1.0 application. this was in '93-94 before aol was allowed to corrupt usenet.
Well, if you want GS/OS, you can still get it.
As long as we're re-releasing old software, is it too much to ask for a copy of DesqView 386 ?
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
The latter usually loaded and executed the program, and the former just loaded the program into memory and you had to usually do a 'RUN' to get it to execute.
--
The memory management on the PowerPC can be used to frighten small children. -Linus
What kind of crack were the 1541 disk drive engineerings smoking? Did they even have crack back then?
The 1541 was a somewhat self-destructing device. As I recall, the designers needed a way to make sure the read/write head shuttle was properly aligned with the (freeway sized) magnetic disk tracks, so they rubbed their brain cells together and decided it was appropriate and OK to just keep seeking the head shuttle inwards until it violently slammed the read write head into whatever was blocking its way. Then it was sure to be at the end of its travel. klak-klak-klak-klak-klak-klak!
All my friends had C64's back then, and we all had one or two 1541's over time. Luckily, one of us was well versed at fixing the blasted things.
I think it was when the 1571 drive came out they stopped slamming the disk head shuttle repeatedly.
I will never forget my introduction to Infocom on my Commodore 64, what, its been 21 years!!! I played it straight until my 1541 died from exhaustion. It went tits up from Zork. I guess a grue ate the bastard.
8-bit? It's supposed to be 64-bit as I can tell reading the name c64. Otherwise, why is it c64?
Less is more !
If you'll remember, before the AOL access software was a Windows application, it was previously a GEOS application; when you started AOL, a customized version of GEOS was started and then GEOS ran inside that.
This was just around the time that Windows 3.0 was beginning to be popular.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I used to use GeoPaint all the time with my old C64. It was the only paint program I was aware of that I could use with my color dot matrix printer at the time. The school computers were all Apple IIs and for some reason they couldn't even get Paintshop to produce in color (even though they had color printers), so it always impressed the teachers when I used my C64 for their stupid book reports.
The only drawback to GEOS was the fact it ran entirely from those 5 1/4 disks. They'd take forver to load and everytime I loaded up GEOS I'd have to set the clock. Betcha one of those harddrive units for the 64 would have made wonders for GEOS.
This version of GEOS is available at BreadBox the copyright holder of the GEOS name, trademarks for all versions of GEOS (with possible exception of the Commodore versions of GEOS) since purchase of GeoWorks/NewDeal.
CMDRKEY.COM/Click Here! Software had acquired production rights and very much may have acquired the copyright of the Commodore versions of GEOS from GeoWorks several years ago - LONG before BreadBox acquired GEOS.
To find the Apple 8 Bit versions of GEOS for the Apple II series will be found at www.breadbox.com for download as well as other versions of GEOS is available from BreadBox including the PC/GEOS aka GeoWorks Ensemble.
Commodore version is found at www.cmdrkey.com along with the GEOS DeskTop upgrade (OS upgrade) called Wheels which upgrades the GEOS package with an updated DeskTop system.
CMDRKEY.COM/Click Here! Software is ran by Maurice Randall.
Huh? GEOS came out in 1986... the Apple Lisa shipped with a trash can icon in 1983, the Mac did the same in 1984. I belive it was first mocked up in 1982, check folklore.org for the specifics straight from the engineers themselves.
folklore.org
It's been a long time since I've done much IIgs digging, but do a quick google and you'll find gobs of neat apps. I used to run Platinum Paint, Fantivision (animation), and gobs of games on my GS. There was even a port of Wolf3D, but it required 2 MB of RAM (I only had the stock 1 MB at the time).
The GS/OS (especially GS/OS 6.0) was very Mac-like. There was even a port of HyperCard. The GS had color and better audio a year before the Mac, but used wide rectangular pixels, so the overall resolution/quality wasn't all there. But still, it wasn't until the Mac IIsi many years later that a person could buy a color Mac for the price of a IIgs.
The GEOS article under the first link talks a lot about the copy protection on GEOS, and why it hurt widespread acceptance so much. Am I the only one who was able to produce the "special" track on copies of the GEOS disk, so that the copies would actually work?
If I remember correctly, I found the checking code somewhere in GEOS, then wrote some code to produce the proper patterns on the disk. Mind you, that code had to run inside the 1541 disk drive, so that it could determine what would be written to disk directly.
Those were the days...
What's with Geoworks Ensemble? It used to be a
fine piece of GUIware, too...
And since GEM has been free for years, this would
probably complete the list (tho I'd like to get
my hands on DOS 3.3 and Windows 2 and 3 sources
as well).
My Karma isn't excellent, damn it! (And
Actually, the program you mention already exists! In fact, there are two of them: server64 and 64hdd (I don't have any links to provide at the moment, so load up your favorite search engine I suppose).
:( I eventually gave up on it because I didn't use it very often (I still have plenty of blank 5.25" disks), and keeping it running 24/7 was a pain in the butt.
.d64 files on the hard drive and attach them at will using commands from the C-64. I can't remember off-hand what the speed was like... I seem to remember it being even slightly faster than the 1541, but I might be mistaken.
.d64 files don't carry enough information to properly do all the goofy copy protections, so you'd have to rely on cracked games if you were pirating (hackers were usually forced to remove speed-loaders when cracking games, so these versions often have painfully long load times)... and naturally, doing multi-disk games didn't work either, since changing disk images could only be done from BASIC (Maybe you could do it from the PC, I forget). It certainly doesn't replace disks, but it'll provide essentially limitless data storage for all your homebrew and hobbiest stuff.
Now, I've tried both of these, and I honestly can't remember which one was which. The first one I tried (I think it was server64) didn't work at all... and I never figured out why.
The second one (I guess 64hdd) worked amazingly well! All you had to do was build an X1541 cable (someone else already linked to the page with the information... luckily, I had already built one of these when I was 10 or so in order to "pirate" C64 games, so I used that)... With the X1541 cable connecting the parallel port of the computer to the serial port of the C64 (or of a connected drive, since they daisy-chained), you could easily load and save programs from the computer's hard drive.
I set up a 486 with an 80 meg hard drive (enormous by C64 standards) with no monitor or keyboard simply acting as a fileserver for my C-128. The only problem was that the 486's CMOS battery had died, so if the machine ever lost power, I had to drag a monitor and keyboard downstairs to reset all the BIOS information
The program actually let you create and browse directories (although in a rather painful manner, since the C64's BASIC wasn't well suited for this), and you could keep
Unfortunately,
-"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -EH
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/xerox- 8010/index.html
For the low low price of $17,000 the Xerox Star had a better GUI than the Lisa, Mac, or Geos. Ran on beefier hardware too.
Neat stuff, I wonder if a Xerox Star emulator would ever be possible...?
I used to work in a computer repair shop in the early 90s, when we were just catching the tail end of the 8-bit computers (I can still diagnose all the ZX Spectrum "stock faults" with a two-second look at the screen). We had a 1541 alignment disk, that had the "boot" tracks written really "hot" so even very badly out-of-alignment drives would read them, then tracks that started off deliberately too far out, worked their way to perfect alignment, and eventually were too far in, across the surface of the disk. What happened was, it would boot off the disk, then start reading the "test" tracks until it found the track where it got the least CRC errors. Then it would smack the head off the end stop a few times, and try reading the disk again. Painful to listen to, and took all night (I feel sorry for the people in the flat above the shop), but it *always* worked. Second thing to try after a headcleaner.
You're thinking of Geoworks Ensemble. It came bundled with a number of Magnavox 8086 through 80386 machines back in the late 80's / early 90's. It did everything windows 3.1 did, except: 1. Crash every 30-60 seconds 2. Run more than the 30 or so apps that came with the distro. Still, a good, solid windowing system for low-end hardware.
g ory=Ease-of-Use
The GeoWorks of old can be found at Home Of the Underdogs. A newer incarnation, updated for newer hardware and the Web is called Breadbox Ensemble, and is viewable here: http://www.breadbox.com/ensemble/geocats.asp?cate
Well my friend, you may not be a nerd.
My first "real computer" was a C64 too.
Part of being a nerd is exploring technology and how it works technically and works in our lives.
By looking at our history and the roads we have travelled, we get a better sense of where we are at in time and where we want to be in the future.
Seeing this story on slashdot, I thought about the usefulness of this application and reflected that it was all done on a eight bit 6502 derivative operating at 1 Mhz with 64k of memory.
I know many on here reflected the same way and immediately started thinking of applications that might be generated. I didn't even know that "Contiki" or "Lunix" existed. These would be easy to port to an embedded device.
Many of us on slashdot have ham-radio licenses. Much of the "old" technology that ham's were investigating in the seventies have become economic realities now thirty years later. I remember when I was riding on a bus and I made a phone call on a repeater with my handy-talkie. Every body thought that was "cool". Now people just get annoyed when it's done on a cellphone. So by reflecting on "old" technology, we can maybe recycle it for use into "new" technology
Many on here like to listen to "glass audio", or "antique radio". You can learn a lot about technolgy and design issues when restoring an old radio. Many of these same issues occur in modern day electronics as well (like dried out capacitors).
For christmas I bought one of those joystick "namco" game that plug directly into the TV. It was loaded with five arcade games which included pac-man, dig dug (my personal favorite), and galaxian. I thought that my six year old niece would be the only one to get a kick out of it, but the whole family did. Just because these games were "old" did not make them any less fun. And Namco was brilliant for taking this "old" technology and repackaging it in an accessible and fun format. The thing that's nice about these games is they have a zero learning curve. You can sit down and immediately play a game and relax and not have to worry about game complexity that many PS2 games have.
Just because these things are not "new" does not make them "irrelevant" to a nerd's life. On the contrary, nerds embrace such things.
Old radio, glass audio, retro-gaming, and antique computing represent technologies that brought us to this particular point in time. So it is very much a part of a "nerd's history" (this one's anyway).
Even though I may not be actively participating in them, I enjoy reading about the adventures of others, and see what they are learning and developing with them. With a sentimental eye in this "throw away" society we live in, I'm glad to see others keep the (nerd's) flame alive.
So, it's all about interest in technology, whether it be old or brand new that makes a nerd "a nerd". These things, both "old and new" will matter to the nerd on a deep, cerebral level. As compared to an average person that is "just a user" and would just as likely throw away the antique radio than repair it. Or the old computer, as it "does not matter" to them any more.
I think you fall in this latter category of "user".
I mean no offense and I hate to say it, but for the above reasons, you may not be a "nerd".
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
I used GEOS 128 with a RAMLink drive on my C128-D (metal case). It started in seconds and was blazingly fast. Together with GeoPubisher it was a great way to do dtp. GEOS 128 could be run in 80 chars mode and had a much better resolution.
GeoProgrammer was a great development enivronment, too, btw.
The CMD RAMLink drive was very nice for playing The Last Ninja, too. It all loaded in an instant.
Most people won't remember, but AOL was originally released on GEOS. I was one of the beta testers.
It took me forever to work out how to drive this thing, I must have been about eight at the time. At that stage it was the most amazing device I had ever seen. Who had ever thought you could point at icons on the screen and make things happen!
Speaking of AOL - since the GEOS site in the article is slashdotted, I wonder if it comes with the Quantum Link software? I hope not =)
Suddenly, I feel so old and jaded. Why must you bring out the past in this manner?
Oh, why, why?
On a more serious note, it's interesting how innovation always appears to be right around the corner, yet it doesn't happen fast enough when you breath and live technology.
And while technology has indeed evolved a great deal, I am not sure whether I can say that it has effected the type of social change that I once thought it would bring about.
Pragmatism as an ideology is not particularly pragmatic in the long term. Keep it in mind when you dismiss Free Software
Just download The Emulator (vice)!
-- Cheers!
Just yesterday I booted GEOS off of original floppies on the Commodore SX64 that sits here in my cube. It booted just fine, despite being loaded from floppies that are nearing 20 years old.
GEOS was a great system in it's day, and probably would be still around if not for the raping of Commodore by corporate raiders.
I remember using this in High School - the problem was the C64 printer couldn't print descenders in text mode, so all my "g"s and "p"s where pushed up and the teachers didn't like that.
With Geos I could print just about any font, but boy do those dot matrix printers make a racket printing graphics!
um, I'll check the math, but:
the Mac in 1984 had a trash can before GEOS 1.0 in 1986...
the Lisa had it a bit earlier on their desktop...
and they may have been inspired by the Xerox Star / Elixir Desktop that traces back to 1981...
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
There was an individual who, during the mid-to-late nineties, wrote a package to run software from the original C64 GEOS on IBM PCs. He never released it as CMD didn't want him to (they probably couldn't have stopped him, but he chose not to release it anyway). With this free download release, that package may now reappear and become a bizarre yet effective way to put a tried-and-tested, low-cost office environment onto a low-powered handheld PC. (Highly suitable for low-resolution/low-colour screens!) As the file formats are completely stable (there will be no ongoing development), handheld/PC synchronisation would be pretty future-proof, and if native GEOWrite file format support was to be added to StarOffice, we'd have a neatly integrated setup.... HAL.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
You are not alone.
:)