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The Self-Tuning Guitar
CowboyRobot writes "With the TransPerformance Performer you push a button to activate a mechanical re-tensioning of the strings to any of a few hundred tunings, 'accurate to within 2 cents over the entire tuning range', in a couple of seconds. They can even refit your existing guitar. There's a long audio interview with Jimmy Page on the site. It's funny to hear him speak."
It's being done with pianos:
See this New Scientist article
-- jaf
...for when cars become self-tuning too. ;)
libertarianswag.com
Now if only they could get one to automatically play a real F or some of the more complicated SUS7#'s for us...
I have the fealing that most guitarists use the F just to stop me from trying to learn the song.
--Turvey
I had a flame... but she had a fire.
man, I feel bad for the roadies.
No more tuning the guitars.
Sucks to be them.
Guess its mic checks from here on out. Sorry fellas.
Sent from your iPad.
Does it run linux? It would be cool to be able to check your email in the middle of a gig by running mutt on the LCD display.
If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
Now if only we can get these for vocalists...
I wonder how many guitarists will take to this since to them it is such and art and about what they hear. Can a computer really tune to the level that they can hear it needs to be tuned to for them?
Evolution or ID?
For those who don't know, Jimmy Page was the guitarist for Led Zeppelin. While he doesn't have the best technique when it comes to playing the guitar, he really really does have a grasp of melodies. He's a genius, you'd better listen to that guy. :)
now I don't have to be concerned that I'm putting to much tension on my G-string... phew!
The original generic sig.
Well, someone was going to say it...
This is really cool. However, maybe I'm showing my age here in that I'm not sure I really like the idea. I've been playing for 25 years (since I was 12) and IMHO a huge part of learning to play is developing a good ear and being able to tune your instrument by hand. I never cared for electronic tuners for the same reason.
;-)
That being said, since I *can* tune by ear, I probably wouldn't mind the convenience of being able to 'dial in' whatever tuning I want.
Let's just make sure that newbs learn things right before you let them have one of these
well my first reaction was "Great! More tone deaf 'musicians' who can't even tune thier own guitars ... at least they'll just suck instead of also being out of tune."
... guess that's why I USED to play with him.
But then I remembered I fellow I used to play with who was enamoured with oddball tunings. I would have loved to get him one of these, because he had to change tunings so often that the audience would get bored in between songs. Wouldn't have been so bad if the guy had had a pesonality to keep them entertained with
Take a look under the testimonials section...Used by the band "Paul Allen and the Microsofts"??? I'm not sure if this is a joke or not, but /.'ers believe you me, its an omen. This thing must someone be evil.
The FAQ says it costs about $4000 to retrofit it onto your guitar. This is not for your average guy who plucks a bit on the weekends.
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
Big deal- I'll tune it myself. Whenever I need to tune its usually because I am less than 2 cents out of tune anyway (unless my guitar has been re-strung or not played in a while).
Besides, who would want that big nasty thing on a Beautiful Taylor, Les Paul, or Strat? Its a cool toy, but I don't see much use for performers.
[FromTheMorning]
Now that just anyone can tune a guitar, I guess I have to find something more elite...
I can understand maybe with people just starting out in learning the guitar, but with someone that knows how to tune a guitar, and having a guitar that stays in tune (ie, don't buy cheap crap), is important. But learning to tune the guitar by ear is part of the learning process.
Well, perhaps as the strings age the guitar can compensate for that I suppose...but I use Elixers on my Martin and they last a good month before they need changing.
Ah, also forgot, if you're into alternate tunings this would be a quick way to switch them around without having 5 different guitars all tuned differently.
Also, in case you haven't check it out yet, go buy the Led Zeppelin DVD that was released last year. You'll see why Zeppelin ruled the stage in their day. Much better than the lack-luster "Song Remains the Same" performance we were stuck with for so long. I actually saw them in concert in May of 1977 in Maryland, and they were MUCH better than that movie. This new DVD shows this, and without all the silly acting parts (remember Jimmy Page's eyes glowing red?).
"Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
100 cents = 1 half-step = the smallest pitch distance on a piano
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Hello, don't hate me for it, but I followed the link and read the story. Seems like the bridge is replaced by motors that tune the guitar by moving the bridge slightly, thus increasing or lowering the string tension. I can't speak for everyone, but I for one like my strings in a fixed position from the frets. I want the distance between the strings and the frets as small as possible. Does anyone else see a problem with that, since moving the bridge alters that distance? Or do you think those movements would be so subtle that one could hardly tell there was a movement at all?
I have invented the self-playing guitar. In a fit of creative frenzy I have named it the CD!
Each guitar has it's quirks. Depending on the intonation the "b" string on a guitar needs to be tuned manytimes slightly flat to allow chords to ring true.
The human ear has a problem with "b". Even though the tuner may say it is perfectly in tune a simple "D" chord will sound awful.
Compensating bridges make up for this intonation problem but it is still not exact.
Automatic tuners may look cool but will go the way of locking nuts. Remember those locking nuts and big ass whammy bars forced on us by Eddie VanHalen in the 80's?
and i meet students all the time that don't want to learn to tune because of digital tuners. i would imagine how "bad" music would sound when they can figure out they can just press a button to retune their guitar. people listen. you ear tune to train your ear.
This seems like a cool thing, but all it all I doubt seriously it'll catch on. Plus, I can't can't see anyone who can afford a $2k(US)+ guitar taking a chance at killing its resale value by doing this mod.
From their FAQ: Some wood is removed and replaced with the computer and mechanical device.
geeky stuff I'm proud to have been a part of: linux.com / themes.org / sourceforge.net / sicnus.com
These have been around since the 80's... The only difference is that now they can be lifted by a 'normal' man now that electronics have become so much smaller...
Don't seem to understand what this product is for. It's not for tonedeaf idiots who can't tune a guitar.
It's for professionals, who want to expand their sound by being able to change tuning midsong and at a rate of a tone a second, so that you can get effects and changes in sound that are impossible on a normal guitar tuning headstock (believe me, I just tried to emulate this video with my guitar: http://www.selftuning.com/video/video.html )
I think the price tag of 3300$-3899$ says it all really.
Gamers Europe - Gaming News. Reviews.
...the locking nut whammy bar. The best invention since the electromagnetic pickup! Floyd Rose is a genius!
...about harpists seem somewhat appropriate here:
"Harpists spend 90 percent of their lives tuning their harps, and 10 percent playing out of tune".
The only people likley to buy this are those who use a lot of diffrent tunnings in performance, but then they have to weight this against the likley reduction in the guitar's worth. I dont' think it would be worth forking out money to reduce the value of your pride and joy it might be the sort of thing i would put into my epiphone but never my strat. Didn't see a price on the site but some one mentiond $4000 at that price you could buy 3-4 gibson les pauls or 2 cornford hellcat amps, when compared to that it's not value for money at all. This isn't going to be worth it for the majority of players who use just one or two tunnings as you can get electric tuners for 5 that tune just as accuratley if not more so.
I can see this being right up jimmy page's street but it's not going sell big.
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
I can see the effect on tension, all right, but wouldn't this also throw the intonation out?
OTOH, it'd be nice to be able to flip between different tunings I use (EADGBE, DADGBE, DADGAD, FACGCE) easily and quickly...
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
"In his spare time, billionaire Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) co-founder Paul G. Allen plays the guitar in a rock band called Grown Men." - BusinessWeek
The Nashville, TN (my home city) government should have a grant program to provide these for every street musician. There is nothing more detrimantal to our downtown commerce than all of the out-of-tune, drunk singer/songwriters playing on the street.
At least we can now fix the out-of-tune part!
Paul Allen's band, Grown Men, have a website with mp3 (interestingly, not WMA) samples and lyrics, from their debut CD.
Jesus, who designed this damn thing? It looks like someone glued a harmonica onto a les paul.
I like the idea of having embedded electronics in guitars, but when you get down to it, it's a really dumb idea. A guitar is a musical instrument, that can be played for years and years. A circuit board will be obsolete by next christmas.... why would you want to disgrace a 3,000$ guitar with some cheap silicon junk? Let the effects processors do the processing and tuning, and the guitar just play the damn music.
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
The device adjusts tension, not length.
Ydco co
The frontman for the tea party has had this for a while (dunno if it's exactly the same.. I was under the assumption that his was a custom job...)
Check out this, from the Discovery Channel (.ca) ("Jeff Martin on 'smart guitars'").
S
Drummer friend of mine worked on an auto-tympani tuner as his final-year student project, I think. Part of the problem was recognising the really low frequencies you get from tympani.
:)
I'm not sure how far he got with the project.
Actually, I should probably call him a percussionist
Why even bother to buy a guitar and learn to play it if you can't tune it yourself? I find this pathetic, I'm sorry to say. Just buy a synthesizer and learn to play with that if you can't be bothered to learn to train your ear.
What ever happened to talent and skill?
1. O.k. tune up the 4th and 5th strings...
2. What the?
3. Goto 1.
4. Profit!!!
pseudocode compiler: Warning, unreachable code.
${YEAR+1} is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop!
It's a conspiracy developed by the wives of guitar players to eliminate a reason for buying another guitar!!! The "I need another guitar for an alternate tuning" has been ironclad for the last 50 years. If you run across one of these turn away. Don't look at it. Next they'll comeup with a guitar that lets you interchange bodys, neck and pickups to eliminate the "I needed a (insert one: Gibson (insert one) LP, SG, ES335,etc Fender (insert one) Strat, Tele (insert one) w/HB,, w/S, 12 string, Rick, Gretsch, PRS, etc) justification.
Pragmatically speaking, there are (as far as I'm aware) alternate tunings for pianos, organs, and harpichords which relate to specific musical periods, such as the baroque. Thus, for truly faithful reproduction, you may want to tune to the Werckmeister III scale for performing some baroque pieces. Not to mention the different "pure" tunings for all the major and minor keys.
proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
Guitar tuning has a lot to do with the nut (save the jokes...). This is the piece of plastic, bone or graphite on the end of the fretboard that holds the strings in place before they hit the tuning machines. Most guitars that won't tune aren't so bad because of the tuning keys, it's that the nut is not cut properly for the size strings you're using. If they don't sit right, they won't stay in tune, simple as that. Oh, and STRETCH those strings when they're new! Search google, its very simple and your new strings will behave very nicely after a stretch, because you get the kinks out.
Also, there's a handheld tuner that you can buy that physically turns the peg for you, all you do is pluck the string. I'm surprised no one's mentioned it yet, it's been around for over 10 years. The difference is that it only does one string at a time, and you hve to physically hold it in place while you tune.
In the long run, tuning a guitar is not rocket science and keeping your nut in good shape and having a decent set of tuners (even ones on a cheap Fender Squire are pretty good nowadays) will keep you playing alright. This invention is pretty cool for a wow value, but it's like using an Abrahms tank to kill a mosquito. I play several guitars with old-school Bigsby tremolos and I don't have any tuning problems.
Whilst this may be a boon for experienced guitarists, it's a disaster for those just starting out. Learning to tune your own guitar teaches you pitch and trains your ears. Any musician worth his/her salt can quickly tune an instrument using the grey matter betwixt the ears and nothing else.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
tuning, as it turns out, is inherently flawed. This occurs because of the "Pythagorean comma": essentially, the combination of a perfect fifth + a perfect fourth leads to an imperfect octave. Hence, there are actually multiple different ways to tune instruments, each of which makes sense in its own way. One example is "Well-Tempering" (as in Bach's Well-Tempered Klavier), which places priority on tuning keys near C. Chords like C, G, etc. played on a Well-Tempered scale sound particularly in tune, whereas chords like F# sound less well-tuned.
The most common scheme today is "Equal Tempering", in which every half-step is a multiple of 2^(1/12) above its neighbor. In this scheme, C# and Db (for example) are considered the same note, whereas in other schemes, they are not. The upside of this is that all keys sound equally "in tune"; the downside is that no key sounds perfectly in tune.
Historical note: some early Klaviers had seperate keys for sharps and flats, since those notes were not considered to be the same.
So, the "science" part of tuning is what you see in the autotuner. The "art" part is tuning the instrument to make the music sound like you hear it in your head.
Bottom line: if a guitarist tunes all of its open strings to a piano, it will not sound "in tune" to the guitarist. Of course, an autotuner can presumably be customized to taste.
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
IMHO the posts about "ruining the musicians ear" are bogus. If you RTFA you'll see that this gizmo allows the scales to be tempered to suit the musicians taste. You want to modulate the B-string a few hertz flat -- go ahead, that's what a tempered scale is. Besides, you develop a good ear by playing a well-tuned instrument, not by compensating mentally for a discordant mess.
I have a reasonably good ear, and use harmonics when "ear tuning" because they're more accurate than the fret placement (and less subject to the rising tone problems caused by fretting the previous string, which raises it's tone slightly). I'm at least as good as the cheap electronic tuners, but not as good as the higher-end needle-guage based units. Based on the price of this unit, I'm betting it uses a pretty high quality tuner - far better than most guitarists ear! Having strings 1 hertz off doesn't make much difference on a six-string played with high distortion at a rock concert. But on a twelve string, even a small difference between paired strings leads to an unpleasant audible "beating". The same thing happens with classical guitars, where it becomes annoying (usually when lower strings are fretted above the twelvth fret, and sound out of sync with a supposedly identical note played on a higher string).
So, this unit is faster than a human, more accurate than a human, allows complete control over scale tempering, and stores a couple of hundred alternate tunings. It's got me beat hands down, and I suspect that's why professionals are paying nearly 4g to get one!
I don't know about you, but if I'm buying a REAL Les Paul for $3500 then I'm not modding it with anything. At all.
I'd rather manually tune it than ruin a fine piece of craftmanship with modern technology that isn't worth the bang for the buck.
I'd have trouble even changing the pickups on a Les Paul for fear of devaluing it....
Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare.
This is a DSPless implimentation, but DSP (digital signal processing) works well.
For about 1.5k, you can buy a digital amp that does all of this, and more, with a pickup fitted to your guitar.
Roland makes it. Here we are Roland VGA-7 amp
Why? Is he out of tune?
-- clvrmnky
Wow this place makes me feel so old.
Back when I started playing in the '60s we used a piano harmonic to tune or a "pitch pipe". Chromatic tuners started to come in the REALLY high end dollar range and people said they'd ruin musicians ears, never tune right, yada, yada, yada. Nowdays you can get a great tuner for around $15 bucks discounted online and they're built into every digital pedal you get. Even acoustic guitars come with them built in in everything except the bottom of the line models (love the tuner in my new Ovation, the electronics beat the heck out of my first).
If you play ANY old rock you gotta get good at alternate tunings or the songs just DON'T sound right This is called "The Performer" for a reason, if you do anything nowdays you'll use at least 2-3 tunings to get the set right, so hitting a button to retune to Drop-D, Drop-C, DABGAD, or some of those really weird Led Zep or Blue Oyster Cult stuff this would be a blessing.
I expect in another 15-20 years every decent guitar will have this or something similar built in just like the chromatic tuners and stuffed shirts will be arguing about something else wrecking musicians ears. The price will drop, just like Seth Lovers' humbuckers and the Bigsby and Whammy tremelos.
Personally, as I get older, It'd be nice to not lug around a van load of gear, I'm REALLY looking hard at the Line 6 guitars, but just don't like the actions (personal preference, some love them).
It doesn't matter what you wrap your emotions around, Reality is a brick wall specifically designed to scramble eggs
I'm associated with TransPerformance, so I guess I'm one of the lucky bastards that gets to play all those artists guitars when they come in for the retro-fit of our tuning system.
r s. html
Really a great system. I can't say it enough. Like page says, "...it makes your eyes pop out!", you've got to see, hold and play a guitar with this system in it to truely appreciate it.
We're also up to ver.7.xx of the software in the workshop, so no more -2/+2 cents of target. Now it's dead-on. Battery meter, on-screen tuner, less power consumption...
I've sent the inventor a link to this article and think he just might drop by and read up soon.
I've got a few pics on my site. Go ahead, slashdot the sucker:
www.geocities.com/cakman1967/cakSelfTuningGuita
-C. Kessel