Your Future Car's Hood Will Be Welded Shut

An Ominous Cow Erred writes "A common argument used by open source advocates (myself included) in favor of open source is the simple question: 'Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?' According to an article from the BBC, Volvo thinks the way of the future may be exactly that."

Comments

It's a car for women!

[wayward_son]

As if having they care if the hood is welded shut. /go ahead, mod me down, you know it's true.

Re:It's a car for women!

[Tomeck]

Golf this week created a car with the screen wash next to the petrol (gas) entry point (what's the correct word?!) because they said women didn't like opening the bonnet (hood) on a car. Tom

Re:It's a car for women!

[tiled_rainbows]

Sad but true: this is a Volvo "Concept Car" (ie automotive vaporware) that was designed "for women by women".

However, the whole article does read like something out of the Onion. Changable multi-coloured seat covers to match your clothes? If it wasn't true it would be a sexist joke.

I was talking with my wife about this and she said she likes having a bonnet that lifts up, as it acts as a kind of "distress flag" when she's waiting on the hard shoulder with a knackered car, hoping some good samaritan will pull over and help her out. I know that this, too, sounds like a sexist joke, but my wife said it first, and she's a woman, so that's OK, I guess.

Re:It's a car for women!

[Araneas]

Same for the Volvo concept car. I have visions of the windscreen (windshield) covered with flaming petrol (benzene) because someone got the fill points mixed up.

And yes I know there would be some safety device to prevent this and I know there would be no ignition mechanism. Maybe I have been watching Zoolander too much. Besides - you know some guy is going to have to do it. ;)

Re:It's a car for women!

[the_mad_poster]

What the hell are you, some kind of Canadian? Petrol? Petrol Entry Point? BONNET!?!

Get me mah shootin' stick maw.....

It's GAS which goes in the GAS TANK which sure as hell isn't under the HOOD of the car!

Next thing you know, you'll be telling me you use a "Gay-raj" instead of a "car hole"?

Re:It's a car for women!

[ThogScully]

I call BS. Water in your brake lines would boil the first time you tapped the brakes. Brake fluid doesn't boil for hundreds of degrees where as water would boil just coming near your brakes. Once it boils, you've got no brake pressure and you better hope your parking brake has some tension.
-N

Re:It's a car for women!

[dayve]

Actually, some VW Beetles (the old ones, not the new ones) had the gas filler under the "hood".

Re:It's a car for women!

[Jane_Dozey]

Now how can I get a man to fix my car if the hood is welded shut??

Re:It's a car for women!

[DigitumDei]

Erm I own a 1980 model Porsche 911SC and it has the washer cap right next to the fuel cap.

How is this new?

Re:It's a car for women!

[aspeer]

Having mis-spent my youth employed as a petrol pump jockey for several years, I can state with certainty that no matter how big the PETROL and WATER stickers are, it will only be a matter of time before petrol goes where the water should and vice-versa.

And I am not singling out females here, it could just be as easily be a male. I once saw a guy who had both the radiator and oil caps off (because they were both low) proceed to put *oil* into to radiator. He (almost) immediately realised the mistake, but it was too late to do anything but flush the radiator.

Also hope they have some sort of interlock where only one can open at a time, or what is stopping you accidentally splashing water into the petrol outlet when filling up the washer tank ?

Not that I really care that much, can't really see this taking off ..

Re:It's a car for women!

[Roblimo]

I'd like a car with easily removable/exchangable seat cushions myself. I could have a plush set for regular/city use, and a vinyl set for when we go to the beach, head out to sail, going camping, or anything else that tends to get the interior dirty.

Except sooner or later I'll probably moot this whole idea and replace my Cherokee with a Wrangler or old CJ with a totally washable "interior" and use it as our beach/tow/camping vehicle, with my wife's Hyundai reserved for "civilized" driving.

(BTW, my wife checks oil and other necessary fluids often. I don't think she'd want a car where she couldn't do that easily.)

- Robin

Re:It's a car for women!

[Total_Wimp]

"sounds like a sexist joke"

I was in dismay as I read this. Basically you can change anything cosmetic but you can't change anything substanttive. I wracked my brain to think up any other product that's gone this route and finally found one: Windows.

You can chage the wallpaper, but you can't change the web browser. You can change the system font, but you can't upgrade the kernel.

I tried to think of what this all means and then it suddenly struck me. Of course, it's right in the aritcle! Windows was designed by women for women.

Now that I understand the Windows niche I can take real action in my life. The girlfriend will get my old Windows machine ("honey, what did you do with my Mac?") and I'm getting the real OS designed by men for men. It may look like crap, but I know I can change any file with complete confidence. Thank god for MS-DOS, the real-mans operating system.

TW

Re:It's a car for women!

[sulli]

And yet the logo is distinctly masculine. Weird.

Re:It's a car for women!

[cdrudge]

Huh? Brake fluid isn't compressable either. You don't want compressable things when maximum pressure is required.

Water could be used as a brake fluid if it wasn't for two things: corrosion and boiling point. The components of the brake system would quickly rust or otherwise corrode with water in the system. Also brakes get very hot and the water would boil off.

Re:It's a car for women!

[cHiphead]

you underestimate the desires of a man to get to play with fire to unweld your hood.

Re:It's a car for women!

[Tmack]

No, water, same as most any liquid, is not compressable. What it DOES do that brake fluid does not, is boil at a relatively low temp. The friction from the pads against the disc/drum heats up all your brake components, disc/drum/pads/calipers/fluid/etc. Once heated, the water would boil, creating steam pockets in your brakeline, and steam (a gas) is VERY compressable.

Just realize the parent is flamebait and move along, nothing to see here.

Tm

Re:It's a car for women!

[zero_offset]

Actually, if you're in slow-moving traffic, your brakes may not heat up much at all. Most regular brake fluid (e.g. not hi-temp racing fluid) has a wet-boiling temperature in the neighborhood of 300 degrees F -- not much higher than the boiling point of water. Also, even if the temp does peak above 212 F, brakes actually cool down fairly fast, especially at such low temperatures. In regular around-town driving, you may not boil enough water to create any noticable effect.

Where he'll get into trouble is when he needs brakes the most -- a panic stop, or slowing down coming off that highway off-ramp, for example. Temperatures will elevate for an extended period of time, the water will boil, the pedal goes to the floor, and the local mortician scores another $10K for services rendered.

Longer term, that much water in the lines will cause severe corrosion of the brake lines and possibly inside the caliper.

(Personally, I think the whole thing is a troll.)

Re:It's a car for women!

[Unregistered]

Windows was designed by women for women.

Actually, i get the feeling that windows wasn't designed at all. More like crashing a Yugo into a parts truck, imo.

Re:It's a car for women!

[Pisco]

To hell with the boiling point, (in Canada) I'm more concerned about the FREEZING point!!

Re:It's a car for women!

[Tomeck]

I'm English. You got better mod points for your reply than I got for my original post, no fair!

Re:It's a car for women!

[cayenne8]

1986 911 Turbo Porsche here....

Damned plastic washer cap disinigrated on me...but, I'm careful not to put gas in it. How's your mileage? I'm almost up to 9-10 mpg....

You can see the engine in my car if you open the rear hatch..but, it isn't like you can do much to it. With these cars, your pretty much have to drop the engine to do something as simple as change the windshield wiper...

:-)

Re:It's a car for women!

[tiled_rainbows]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm paranoid enough not to call local law enforcement. I would sooner trust a random stranger than a copper.

Re:It's a car for women!

[WinterSolstice]

Well, Porsche used to have the oil fill port as well as the fuel fill port accessible from the exterior.

This was *very* short lived (I think it was 71 or 72) because people are amazingly capable of screwing things up.

-WS

Re:It's a car for women!

[Beer_Smurf]

The AvGas in the jet A trick isn't as dangersous as the Jet A in the AvGas.
Most jets have provisions in their manuals to run on gas in an emergency.
Unfortunately piston engine planes when fueled with Jet usually run just long enough to get you killed.

Re:It's a car for women!

[CrowScape]

Gasoline versus Petroleum = Gas versus Petrol. You're just jealous because we can get rid of more letters when we abbreviate. :)

BTW: Gasoline is a type of refined Petroleum. When you say you're filling up your car with Petrol, it's a bit like saying you're taking the oil right out of the ground and immediately throwing it into your car.

Re:It's a car for women!

[Skynyrd]

Actually, some VW Beetles (the old ones, not the new ones) had the gas filler under the "hood".

That's becasue the tank was under the "hood", under the spare tire.

With the old VWs being rear engine, there wasn't any room for it in the back.

When the filler was moved to the outside, it was only a longer filler neck - not a moved tank.

Tackett

Re:It's a car for women!

[zakezuke]

What the hell are you, some kind of Canadian? Petrol? Petrol Entry Point? BONNET!?

I find it odd that anyone would find the use of these terms humorous. I buy Haynes manuals, and in fact learned the terms from their manual. While I don't typicaly use bonnet or boot, I would not even question the use of these terms. Esp petrol which makes the most sence, as it's short for petroleum.

Gas makes the least sence as gas it self is like air, whther it be methane, propane, hydrogen, or what you get after eating AM/PM food. Not that it's not a good term to use for auto fuel, just it's far too generic. "Can we drive to the *metro area* and go dancing tonight" "I have gas honey".

Re:It's a car for women!

[Leebert]

I'd like a car with easily removable/exchangable seat cushions myself.

Yeah, I remember riding in one of your limos. You could DEFINITELY have benefitted from changeable seat covers in that thing. ;)

Re:It's a car for women!

[ultranova]

Steam engines also get vented. Steam trapped in a brake line cannot vent, and therefore will compress. Decrease in fluid volume will result in the brake pedal dropping to the floor and no pressure being applied to the brakes.

Take a kettle full of water. Shut it airtight, preferably welded shut. Put it onto stove. Turn on the stove. Let it boil. Kaboom.

When gas is compressed, it's internal pressure raises. The same is true for fluid, however, with fluid, the internal pressure rises much more rapidly. That is why we can consider fluids uncompressable for practical applications; they compress, but that compression is negligible under "normal" pressures.

When steam is wented, it's pressure *drops*. If it is compressed, it's pressure *raises* (obviously, because otherwise you could compress it infinitely). If you want maximum pressure, take a closed system, fill it with liquid, make sure it has nowhere to expand to, and heat it up till the liquid boils.

Anyway, if your brake fluid would boil (and the brake system could withstand the resulting pressure), the brake would lock on "on". You wouldn't lose pressure, you would have too much of it.

Re:It's a car for women!

[Roblimo]

I *had* changeable seat covers in that limo, Lee.

You don't think I wasted the *good* ones on you, did you? :)

(Seriously, removable and washable seat covers are a great things to have, but I bet Volvo would charge way too much for them.)

- Robin

Re:It's a car for women!

[schovanec]

people are amazingly capable of screwing things up

No kidding. Even if the fuel nozzle physically won't fit in the washer fluid hole, somebody somewhere will still manage to spray gasoline out of their washers.

Re:It's a car for women!

[Merk]

Gas is short for gasoline. Petrol is short for petroleum. You don't put petroleum in a car, otherwise really bad things happen.

Before cars, there were both boots and trunks. Trunks were big cases used for storing things, like clothing. Boots were the things you put your feet inside. Which one of those two better describes how the storage area in your car is used?

Hood is the only one that doesn't have a strong case for it. Both hoods and bonnets are typically head coverings. Neither makes much sense when it comes to describing part of a car, but neither is better than the other.

Re:It's a car for women!

[SEE]

"Gas" is merely the contracted form of "gasoline", which is from

gas : Gas as in air and the like
-ol : from oleum, "oil" (petroleum being rock-oil)
-line : "of or relating to" or "made of, like"

Thus accurately describing the substance. Gasoline is the distilled fraction (a -line) of petroleum (-ol) that readily vaporizes (forms a gas).

Whereas, "petrol" is an Anglicized contracted form of the French essence de petrole, literally meaning "essence of petroleum". Essence, when used in distilling, meaning "a volatile (readily vaporizable) substance or constituent." Which is also an accurate description of the fuel for automobiles, being a readily vaporizable constituent of petroleum.

Thus both make perfect sense, since both are contractions of accurate descriptive terms. "Gas" is merely more prone to confusion with other meanings.

Re:It's a car for women!

[soft_guy]

Apparantly, Homer objects to the fancy terms used, including the term "garage"

Apparently you are wrong. (We forgive you - in fact we pity you for not having seen the episode.) Home uses the term "Garage" and Moe objects to his "fancy use of language" (as do Lenny and Carl). Homer asks "So what do you call it?"

Moe: A car hole!

Re:It's a car for women!

[virtualXTC]

Insightful? I was looking for a mod -1 Lie!

If you paid attention in either of your HS Chemistry or Physics classes, you'd know that liquids (and even solids) are indeed compressible. The difference is each is successively orders of magnitude harder to compress.

The correct thing to say would have been that liquids are "near incompressible" and for the purposes of breaking, it is as earlier posters said the boiling point of the break fluid that is important.

Re:It's a car for women!

[kg439.]

A friend of mine actually did this to his car - he put a gas-oil mix in his windshield washer fluid reservoir because it was the same color blue and was being stored in a gallon jug (not the best place to store it). It ruined the paint on the hood and nastied up the widnshield. So I hope that they don't actually put this into production, for the car's sake - what might it do to the plastic body?

Re:It's a car for women!

[zero_offset]

Slow movement means less inertia to shed in the form of heat through the braking system. Your speed while not using the brakes is irrelevant. It's your speed when you do use the brakes that generates heat. You can use them all day long if you're not moving.

Re:It's a car for women!

[Marvelicious]

This whole conversation is making me want to break out my baby seal club!
OK

Water is compressable - just not very

Steam is very compressable - this is how power generation in a boiler works. I should know, I build the damned things!

Water is not a sub. for brake fluid - It boils, freezes and generally is a problem. I'm actually amazed we still use it mixed with antifreeze for coolant.

Cars should have hoods that open - I really hate this "user-friendly" car concept they have going right now. I don't my car to call anyone for me. No mechanics, no policemen, not even a hooker. I have a phone, I'll use it when I need to. As for a hood that doesn't open... Says who? I'll get the M*****F***er open.

yup

[cangeceiro]

thats why they make grinders

Re:yup

[Jace of Fuse!]

No.

Plasma cutters.

The Apple iCar

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah. The Apple iCar. Brought to you buy the same guys who designed the "battery dies, throw it away" iPod.

When my iCar is low on oil, I park it in a city lot, scratch off the VIN, remove the license plate, and walk away. Then it is off to Apple to buy another one.

Argh.

[DrEldarion]

One thing to note for people who don't actually read the article, this is a car that is not only just a concept, but is a concept aimed at the type of women who would never open the hood anyway.

The headline should have been much, much clearer.

Re:Argh.

[Lxy]

Agreed. /me removes tin foil hat. Nothing to see here.

Re:Argh.

[Smidge204]

My thoughts exactly. In fact, it's completely misleading.

The "Hood" is one peice, so there is no "hatch" like a traditional car. But it's still removable for access. The headline suggests the engine is completely sealed off to prevent anyone but the manufacturer from touching the insides.

Also, you make an interesting point about the type of people that would buy this car for the same rasons it was designed this way ("wold never oen the hood anyway"). From the article:

"So we shifted the filling station for washer fluid to the side of the car, next to where you fill up fuel, and we closed the bonnet for good."

Now taking bets on how often gasoline ends up in the washer fuild or vice versa!

The car should be programmed to discover any problems under the bonnet, then send a message to the garage to let them know.

Well that's something I don't particularly care for...

The mechanics would then contact the women directly to invite them over. ...too easy... :)

"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically. ...said Ms Temm optimistically, while sitting on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck...

So they have implemented a body scanning system...

The results of which are also sent to the mechanics so they can decide if they need to contact the driver directly and invite them to their shop!
=Smidge=

Re:Argh.

[parcel]

Not only is it designed for the type of women who would never open the hood, it is designed by the type of women who would never open the hood. Key excerpts from the article include:

The 'Your Concept Car' (YCC), on display for the first time at the Geneva Motor Show, was designed by a team of women keen to change the way most cars are designed with male drivers in mind.

"Honestly, the only time I open the bonnet on my car is when I want to fill up washer fluid," said Tatiana Butovitsch Temm.
"Do we need to have a one metre square hatch for that or could we do it in another way?


and

Volvo will never actually take this car into production, of course.

But many of the ideas hatched by the female think-tank may still appear in more conventional Volvos, as well as in other cars within the group.

So, no, Volvo does not think that the car's hood should be welded shut. Just someone who wants their seats to match their outfit for the day. Maybe all the women I know are just way too practical, but I don't know a single one who would go through all the hassle to do that.

Re:Argh.

[TRACK-YOUR-POSITION]

The headline suggests the engine is completely sealed off to prevent anyone but the manufacturer from touching the insides.

So does the BBC article:

The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.

The headline was only misleading to the extent that it didn't mention the "designed for women by women" angle--that it's not Volvo wanting to seal everyone's hood, just those of women. So they aren't attacking open source, they're attacking respect for women. Which is kind of worse if you stop and think about it.

Mechanics?

[kravlor]

There's something about trusting the mechanics to tell me when my car's broken that I don't really like...

Besides, what happens when the radio transmitter breaks?

Re:Mechanics?

[blahlemon]

The front molding is all one piece that comes off with a specialized tool. It said in the article that only a Volvo technician could take it off. Obvioiusly because they wouldn't sell the tools to the mass market.

Not that specialized tools is a new idea. Car companies have been doing that for years to try and get people to bring their cars back to the dealer for repairs.

Re:Mechanics?

[no longer myself]

My mechanic would never lie to me! He always charges me a fair price for my weekly fill-up of "blinker fluid".

Re:Mechanics?

[b0r0din]

I can just see the manly mechanics in the shop.

"Hey, Bob, can you do me a favor while I'm filling out this paperwork and take the bonnet off that car so we can do the oil change."
"The What?"
"The bonnet."
"You mean the welded hood?"
"It's called a bonnet."
"Whatever. Sissy boy."
"What was that?"
"Nothing. I'm just working on that BONNET for you. Let me know if you want me to fill up your panties as well."

Re:Mechanics?

[Speed Racer]

My mechanic would never lie to me! He always charges me a fair price for my weekly fill-up of "blinker fluid".

I hope you don't let him use just any old blinker fluid when you can get KaleCo High Quality Synthetic Blinker Fluid for just $5.99. Help save wear and tear on your flash-synchros while saving our petroleum reserves at the same time.

Re:Mechanics?

[nizo]

There's something about trusting the mechanics to tell me when my car's broken that I don't really like...

But how else would we know what our boss feels like when we say the harddrive just died on the RAID attached to the mailserver, and even though the machine is chugging along just fine, we really do need a new disk?

Re:Mechanics?

[dasmegabyte]

get people to bring their cars back to the dealer for repairs

More like to prevent non specialists from working on non-standard parts. Or to prevent accidents.

For example, I drive a VW Passat. Most of the connectors are simply bolts with either hex, torx or phillips head connectors, very easy to take off and remove. But the rear breaks, and the manual transmission fluid, take specialized tools. Why? Well, the transmission, because it's right next to the oil. They don't want some oil guy accidentally draining the the trans fluid, because you have to load it from the top (which I THINK means dropping the tranny a bit, AND having the tranny fluid available). The rear breaks, on the other hand, take a special tool because they are threaded to prevent lock ups on hills on cold days. You have to push in while twisting to replace the pads.

Now, if somebody didn't know this, and just assumed he could put a C clamp on it, he'd break the caliper. So there's no way to put a C clamp on it (lord knows I tried). The idea is, if you know enough to buy the special tool (which cost me $20 from germanautoparts.com), you know enough to do the repair.

computers + internal combustion engines = stupid.

[intertwingled]

Personally, I think that the union of computers and internal combustion engines is just plain stupid. One EMP burst and every automobile that has an Engine Control Computer within range of the EMP is dead. =/ Plus, I am mechanically inclined and often it is cheaper and easier for me to do my own maintenance and minor repairs. Welding the engine hood shut is doubly stupid. What if there is an engine fire?

Nice Quote!

[T-Kir]

The car should be programmed to discover any problems under the bonnet, then send a message to the garage to let them know.

The mechanics would then contact the women directly to invite them over.

Is it me, or do I have a dirty mind this afternoon? ;)

Re:Nice Quote!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha ha.

Dear Mrs Svensson,

Please come over to the Orebro garage - I need to tweak your flange.

Lars.

ummm what happens if the engine is on fire?

[dark404]

What happens when the engine overheats or you get in an accident and the engine is on fire?

"I'm sorry mr. firefighter, only a certified volvo firefighter is allowed to put out this fire"

Re:ummm what happens if the engine is on fire?

[Motherfucking Shit]

What happens when the engine overheats or you get in an accident and the engine is on fire?

That's what you get for driving a <slashjoke>candle truck</slashjoke>

Re:ummm what happens if the engine is on fire?

[dave420]

They'll put a fire-axe right through it, and pump water in. Simple. They're not trying to protect the paintwork, but stop it exploding. Dinging the hood is the least of their worries :-P

Re:ummm what happens if the engine is on fire?

[Unregistered]

If the car's on fire you do not want to open the hood unless you have a fire extinguisher that can put it out. With the hood on, the fire can't get much oxygen adn will either burn slow or even go out while if you open the hood, it can bun as fast as it can find flammable stuff.

just my opinion

[greechneb]

the article says only a volvo mechanic would be able to remove the bonnet... basically the whole front end. You think your mechanic will want to remove the whole front end just to replace a $5 part that would take 30 minutes, that will now take 2 hours? Of course they do get paid by the hour, so maybe it is a way of getting more shop time....

Re:just my opinion

[wayward_son]

This is a Volvo we're talking about here. There aren't any $5 parts on a Volvo. (At least in the U.S.)

Re:just my opinion

[georgeha]

Nonsense, I have a Volvo 960, which drives me to the poorhouse very well, and I'm sure I can get a turn signal bulb for only $2.99 a two pack.

Of course, turn signal lenses run $100.

Re:just my opinion

[Twylite]

Heck, that reminds of back in them good ol' earl-ee nine tees when I could get a soldering iron into the ol' PC if she needed a fixin' !

Screw That!

[xianzombie]

>The whole front of the car is moulded in one >piece which can be removed only by a Volvo >mechanic.

Great, so you can pay $40+ (USD) for an oilchange, along with god knows what a dealer charges for the rest of the routine maintence.

I mean, ok, so the cars geared for women, and we know they can't do their own maintence, but what if they have an ounce of common sense and realize theres no reason to pay dealer prices?

By women, for women?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the article just seems to be about the reinforcement of stereotypes that women don't want to get their hands dirty fixing the car. The concept car is supposed to be "feminine", and quotes some woman about how she never wants to go under the hood. Stereotypes flourish in Scandinavia!

Awful

[ThePretender]

Now I can't be the only one who finds the generalizations made in the article offensive! And I'm not a woman and by no means some earthy-crunchy sensitive 90's-type guy.

On top of that, the concept is stupid. There are things that people (yes, even women) can do themselves under the hood of their own car. What's next? Welding our computer cases shut? (or at least making better "void your warranty" stickers)

missing a step

[millahtime]

so, did the women who designed it think that something under the hood would never break or that the car is disposable? Were the women who designed this some high maintaince women whos daddys/husbands buy them everything?

If it breaks under the hood how do you fix it????????????

Preferences = oil change?

[chabegger]

There is no way I would buy a car with the hood welded shut. Even with non open source software, you can modify things a little bit - every program has preferences to change. For example, in Word I like the blue background with white text. In my car, I want to know I can change the oil, fill my windshield wiper fluid and change my coolant whenever I want to.

Simple Solution

[aliens]

Don't buy the car, it doesn't sell you won't see others like it.

Not a new idea

[Stackster]

The Audi A2, which actually is _in production_ (and has been for a couple of years) has a "locked" hood/bonnet too. There's just a small hatch where you can fill up washer fluid and cooling water .

Re:Not a new idea

[DocSnyder]

The Audi A2, which actually is _in production_ (and has been for a couple of years) has a "locked" hood/bonnet too.

The A2's hood is not really locked shut, it's only held differently compared to other cars. After unlocking two quick-out knobs, you can lift the hood (about 9 kg) off and access everything without the hood being in the way.

Re:Not a new idea

[checkyoulater]

I'd cut a hatch and add a latch and some hinges so I could access the engine compartment. I like doing my own minor maintenance and repairs.

OK, I let your first comment go, but this is the second time you have made this outrageous claim. Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem? Even the mechanics at the dealership need to hook the engine up to the diagnostic computers these days. I could understand doing repairs on older cars, say circa 1995 and older, but give me a break. I am mechanically inclined as well, but I wouldn't even attempt to repair anything inside the engine of a 2004 car. Expect maybe the washer fluid reservoir, or replace a broken cap. Exactly the parts you could access in this new Volvo.

That's just silly

[lovelee]

Just because some woman's organization thinks the only reason some women want to look under the bonnet is to add washer fluid doesn't mean females want to trek their car into a mechanic to check their oil or change a fuse (my fuse box is under the bonnet!).

Women gripe about how mechanics always treat them badly and try to take advantage of them anyway - why enable that by making a car that you can't check out, even if you wanted to?

Fine By Me ...

[Jackdaw Rookery]

"The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic."

"... a car designed by women for women."

Fair enough. I know for sure my wife would never open a car bonnet. And anything that prevents me from having to do maintanance on her car is a plus.

No down side here from my point of view:

-Less hassle from Mrs
-Greater MPG due to better airflow
-Cleaner engine, moving parts would last longer

"Volvo will never actually take this car into production, of course."

They will if they get good press, look at the Audi TT.

Welded shut in a car designed by and for women...

[ravind]

So the question to ask, when queried about the benefits of open source is: "Are you a man?" :D

In fact you could also put that on a t-shirt - "Real Men Use Linux"

Bumper Stickers

[Speare]

I did some very rudimentary artwork for two LWE2002 bumper stickers, one of which carries this slogan. "Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?" (Tagline 'If your software doesn't include the source code, switch.') There were press articles mentioning these stickers.

This is just a Volvo concept car, with other ridiculously sexist language in the press releases, and features that will never find a production car. It sounded straight from a Heinlein book, with mixed up mysogyny and girl-worship all wrapped together.

However, if you ever DO see one of these cars, I'd love a photograph of it sporting my Linux sticker. I'll have to make one which says, "My OTHER car's hood isn't welded shut!"

breakdown service??

[ponxx]

I'm not particularly convinced by this car... what happens if it breaks down on the motorway? Do you have to call the Volvo break down service? How about a dead battery? Or just flat one when you need a jump-start? What if you want to get an oil-change at a garage round the corner? It strikes me as the kind of thing a car maker would do to increase their slice of the servicing market, much like some up-market cars that have rare or very odd parts so that only "authorised garages" are likely to be able to do anything beyond chancingin the oil...

Most of the other design features also sound more like bunch of men were having a laugh as to what a woman wants in a car... like being able to colour-coordinate with your clothes... Please!!!

I guess doing this kind of design study is a good way of getting publicity though, even made it onto slashdot...

Robin

Good luck!

[ByteSlicer]

What if your battery dies in winter, and you have to jumpstart it?

Wow, insulting maybe?

[The Wing Lover]

"Women are soooo bad with cars that they can't even be trusted with a hood that can open!"

Come on! Just because a lot of women don't do their own maintenance, does that mean that the hood should be locked shut? I mean, women who *don't* know how to do their own spark plug changes or oil changes would still be smart enough to just not open the hood, wouldn't they?

'Sides, the car-repair show on the local radio program is hosted by a woman who is a genius when it comes to mechanics -- I wonder what she'd have to say about it.

Business Venture!

[beware1000]

anyone wanna join in on a business that produces 'warranty void if seal broken' stickers? There seems to be a rapidly growing market for it...

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[WIAKywbfatw]

What if there is an engine fire?

Then you need a fire engine.

Rioting, Ravaging and iRResposibility!

[Otter]

Only this time, it is common sense spelt with an F for Feminine rather than Farmer.

Geez, I was looking for Kent Brockman's byline at the top of that.

Car welded shut is illegal in this country

[EvilTwinSkippy]

IBM lost several anti-trust cases based on exclusive service agreements with customers, and invalidating warrenties for user-installed parts. (The big three also tried these shenanigans back in the day, AND LOST.)

I don't know what the legal precidents are in Europe, but in the US Volvo would be laughed out of court if someone sued.

Only a Volvo mechanic? *snicker*

[curtisk]

What are they intending to do, design a custom bolt system and tool that ONLY Volvo can get their hands on? I believe GM has tried that in the past "..only use GM tool #xxxxx to remove"

Please.....if someone wants that hood(bonnet) off , its coming off.....Volvo certified or not

It's amazing what improv tools mechanics can come up with

Re:Only a Volvo mechanic? *snicker*

[base3]

Not in the United States. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prohibits voiding a warranty on those grounds.

Audi A2

[dontod]

The Audi A2 is halfway towards this concept. It doesn't have a bonnet (hood) as such, just a small flap to check oil and water levels.

Don.

Re:Audi A2

[Mr. Piddle]

You know, there is a real advantage to a sealed hood/bonnet: stiffness. I would bet that the modern hood is a real PITA to car structural designers who look at that big unstressed hood and weep.

Re:Audi A2

[zero_offset]

what more do you really need on a standard "family" car?

Plugs, oil filter, air filter, battery, PCV valve, fuel filter, plug wires. And if the hood is sealed, you're not going to have access to a wide range of fairly important fluids, either -- oil, brake fluid, auto trans fluid, coolant.

I believe this is really just a ploy to promote the concept of "throw-away cars". You can get away with not touching those things for three years in most cases, but only if you don't plan to keep the car for much more than those three years... and the next buyer, who'd better be the type who performs regular maintenance -- he is screwed.

Re:Audi A2

[eofpi]

There's already lots of suitable bracing under the hood because of the sheer number of components that have to be supported there.

One problem with a sealed hood/bonnet is that it'd probably wreak havoc on frontal crumple zones. Hoods of modern cars are designed to crumple in a specific sequence to absorb energy.

Re:Audi A2

[Dun Malg]

You know, there is a real advantage to a sealed hood/bonnet: stiffness. I would bet that the modern hood is a real PITA to car structural designers who look at that big unstressed hood and weep.

Actually, unlike airplanes, cars aren't built to rely on a "stressed skin" for structural support. Cars nowadays are built on a "unibody" design and all the cosmetic parts-- fenders, doors, hood, trunk lid-- are hung on the outside. The supporting structure needs to be near where the weight sits-- at the wheels. Really the only places the structure is exposed is the parts holding up the roof and framing the doors, and then only out of obvious necessity.

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[easter1916]

If someone is setting off EMP pulses (most likely a war situation), you will have bigger things to worry about than starting your car.

.yawn.

[aixou]

The analogy is flawed. Not having access to the source code of a program does not mean that you can not troubleshoot or perform basic maintenance on it.

A car with a welded hood would be like having a harddrive that couldn't be defragged, it would be like not being able to use anti-virus software.

Source code isn't everything. I perform basic maintenance on closed source programs everyday. It could be argued that a closed source easy-troubleshootable program is actually easy to fix than an opensource program whose developers don't give a crap about trying to help people troubleshoot.

Re:.yawn.

[microbox]

Word just quit on me... some sort of internal error, okay, how to I troubleshoot it =)

Source code isn't everything

Why yes... there's configuration files, so if your programme crashes in 640x480 resolution then...

I perform basic maintenance on closed source programs everyday

What exactly to you mean my maintenance, and if it's so easy why do you do it every day?

A car with a welded hood would be like having a harddrive that couldn't be defragged

Defragging a HD is one operation. Having the hood open lets you change many things. Do you see the distinction?

The analogy is flawed

Smiles politely. Oh all right, I fell down laughing =) =) =) =)

This bears watching

[onyxruby]

This bears watching, especially since a "special" mechanics tool will be required to remove the one piece front end. Stick a "void if removed" warranty sticker over the "special" tool hole, enlist the DMCA and you've got an engine that can never legally be maintained by the owner. If you really want to go whole hog you call the "special" tool a security device and DMCA the car itself.

Just think, cars of the future could be the permanent property of the automotive world. You wouldn't but them, you would license them. I understand Idrive from BMW has a license sticker installed on the windshield that you are forced to accept (by removing) in some countries in order to use the car. All of this could be done with the law as it is today. Circumvention could be prosecuted under the DMCA.

Manufactures would love this because it would force people to get their maintence, even routine maintenence would have to be done at the dealership at their extremely expensive rates. Rates so expensive an entire industry literaly grew up around alternative service options.

Now for the outlandish. This would be a good thing - because it would show joe sixpack how licensing and the DMCA are uncapitalistic and harmful. Your plumber may not give two hoots about a computer, but you can be sure he'll raise hell if he finds out he can't change his own oil or give the old jalolopee to his kids.

Re:This bears watching

[EvilTwinSkippy]

IBM tried this with their mainframes and lost. Case law already states this type of activity is illegal on anti-trust grounds. I'm pretty sure the big-three automakers tried similar tactics, and were also laughed out of court.

Besides, you aren't copying the car. The DMCA doesn't apply.

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Exactly. Nothing like a thermonuclear blast to wreck your day.

Truth be told though, EMP isn't really a problem for microchips. It's generally a problem for electrical systems with long stretches of wire (like telephones and power grids.) What usually blows out a CMOS chips is static electricity, which you won't get from an EMP.

TMYK

They don't have to weld the hood shut.

[cblguy]

Modern auto engineering is about packing as many options in as little space as possible - all while allowing room to cool the engine.

Many vehicles are designed to have "minor" service with "major" pain. Ever look under the hood of a minivan? Good luck changing the fuel injectors, or a spark plug. Most of these will require removal of at least the intake manifold's upper plenum (along with accessories), if not dropping the engine cradle.

For many people, a "welded" hood already exists - they don't want to open it anyway. It's not for me (I wrench my own cars - rebuilding my own transmission this weekend). But for others, why not. A welded hood is not much of a difference than the way my father-in-law treats his Cadillac anyway.

My problem

[lexarius]

My problem isn't so much the engine being inaccessible. My problem is that someone thought magnetized seat covers were a good idea. When I get in the car, where do I put my laptop?

As a woman...

[musingmelpomene]

I think this is a terrible idea.

Oh yeah, and as a woman who can't afford to go to a mechanic every time my car needs a fluid topoff, I think this would suck a lot.

I think it would discourage people from doing routine maintenance on their vehicles and from being able to figure out problems before heading to the mechanic.

When I go to mechanics, they often try to rip me off or tell me I need more parts than I do. One of them tried to get me to buy a new radiator when I already knew I only needed a coolant overflow tank (because the radiator was full and only the overflow tank was consistently empty).

Sure, if a person's not going to do any maintenance anyway, whatever. But this is basically like saying "rip me off, pretty please, I have no idea what this car does or what's under the hood!"

Additionally - what happens when you need a jump, or when your battery needs replaced? Even the most technologically inept woman I've ever met can be talked through a battery installation. What happens if your battery dies a hundred miles from the nearest Volvo dealership?

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[back_pages]

One EMP burst and every automobile that has an Engine Control Computer within range of the EMP is dead. =/

I know! These things are WAY too susceptible to the side effects of a nuclear blast! That's why I drive 100% mechanical vehicles from the mid seventies or earlier. The rest of you ninnies are going to look really dumb when the next EMP comes around! HA! HA HA HA!

What is more insulting

[sielwolf]

that women would never want to open the hood to their car, or that women came up with the concept (that women would never want to open the hood)?

Of course, from the article: The whole front of the car is moulded in one piece which can be removed only by a Volvo mechanic.

Bull. This is up there with the three bits (or whatever) of encryption on DVDs as the lamest attempt at obfuscation. The next day, after hitting the showroom, Autozone would have a 3 dollar wrench to open this bastard. And I bet anyone with an IQ over 10 could pop this badboy off with a screwdriver and a little leverage. That's probably all this Volvo mechanic would do after tiring of this Feature.

A clumsy kludge that has no point other than being a big pain in the ass. Really, does having access to you're car's naughty bits in any way effect driving? This is the New Coke of car innovations.

Besides, the only Swedish vehicle worth sitting in is a Saab Draken. ;)

The union of cars and computers

[AtariAmarok]

Pretty soon, all the cars will be always on the Internet anyway. Watch for the following in your future:

The MyDoom worm: immediately crashes car into brick wall once you go over 55 mph.

Popup ads in the windshield are an ever-growing visibility problem until you download the Google dashboard which includes a windshield wiper that removes them.

Cops pull you over for overclocking

The same grease-stained mechanic who works on your Apple car also works on your nice white iPod, leaving permanent smudges on the case.

Hayes Accura modem sues Honda Acura car

This sounds kinda like OSS vs proprietary software

[Ride-My-Rocket]

"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically.

<snip>

"It is minimal maintenance, really, because the customers have limited time and they don't want a car that gives them a lot of hassle," said Ms Christiansen.

I realize this is just a concept car, so I'm not going to get too worked up about this. But this attitude does seems to be an analogue to the open-source vs closed-source software situation.

What this car relies upon is for nothing to go wrong, and for the internal diagnostics to catch any issues or errors that occur. Which is good, because it means most drivers -- who don't know much about how cars work -- will only need to interact with their car in a very cursory way. However, this attitude of welding the hood shut can also work against your average driver. For example, what if you want to add more oil to your car? Even if they redesigned the car so that you could check oil levels or add more oil easily, just as they moved the wiper fluid to more accessible location, what if you wanted to change your own oil, and save $30-$50? You couldn't, and in an emergency, you would need the help of a certified Volve mechanic to remove the hood. To me, this sounds kinda like Windows -- it's really easy to use and designed to take care of most problems, but when things invariably do go wrong, there's not much you can do to investigate (assuming you have the technical expertise, of course).

Right now, cars are kinda clunky and they might not have as much sophisticated diagnostics in place as this concept car, but you can get at everything when you need to. I can't see consumers giving this now that they have it, just as I can't see the open-source movement doing anything but making progress and gaining mind-/market-share in the coming years.

Volvo cars are not made by Volvo Corporation!

[a-aiyar]

The link to Volvo is wrong. Volvo has nothing to do with Volvo cars. Volvo Corporation makes trucks, marine engines, aircraft engines, and used to make cars. The automobile division was sold to Ford about 7 years ago. The correct link is VolvoCars. Long-time Volvo enthusiasts, such as myself (who loved our 140s, 240, and 740s) are somewhat skeptical of the quality of the newer Volvo cars made under Ford management. For instance the latest S40 (due out this spring) shares a common platform with the Ford Focus and the Mazda 3, but costs about twice as much because of the Volvo branding.

No seriously, it *is* a car for women - RTA

[blorg]

Volvo's new concept car, launched at the Geneva motor show, is a car designed by women for women. [...] [The car] was designed by a team of women keen to change the way most cars are designed with male drivers in mind. [...] And for women with ponytails, there is even a split in the middle of the headrest. "It is very uncomfortable to drive with a ponytail," said Ms Christiansen.

Re:No seriously, it *is* a car for women - RTA

[tprox]

Depends where you tie your ponytail. If you tie it right on the back of your head near the top so that the hair sticks out and back you're going to have problems with your car seat head. Most guys I know tie their long hair so that it goes down their back. Women do either depending on the look (I would assume).

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[Lumpy]

if you really desire the days of mechanical points for the ignition system then you can have them buddy.

90% of all horsepower increase achievements have came from electronic and computerized engine management. There are things you CANNOT do with mechanical ignition timing and engine management.

Already been done!!!

[REBloomfield]

The Audi A2 already does this. There's a flap for the oil, water, etc, but that's it!!

Roadside Breakdown - Hood Up == Distress

[AgTiger]

Other people have mentioned the Roadside Breakdown aspect, but I don't think anyone's touched on this aspect yet:

Having the hood of a car up is a well recognized sign of vehicle breakdown, and that the driver could probably use assistance.

In my area of the world, if the police see a vehicle with the hood up without their own yellow police tape attached to the vehicle (to indicate they've dealt with this vehicle already), they'll stop and offer assistance.

How, exactly, is the driver of one of these vehicles supposed to use this very simple and well understood signal? Madly flag down drivers and risk getting run over?

And this is only ONE example of what a bad idea this vehicle is.

It is about securing the maintenance market

[O0o0Oblubb!O0o0O]

This is not a new development. While I have never heard about any manufacturer wanting to do away with the hood, the automotive industry is trying harder and harder to secure their marketshare not only when selling new cars but also when it comes to the maintenance market. As far as new cars are concerned, Volkswagen just got fined a huge sum by the European Union because they were threatening dealersips in the countries adjacent to Germany that they would lose their license if they sold cars to Germans (attempt to eliminate the reimport market, by which people by cheaper cars abroad due to tax differences). As far as the maintenance market is concerned automotive companies have had clauses in their warranty for some time, stating that the yearly inspection/oil change has to be performed by a dealership of the same brand. Furthermore, since cars are becoming more and more reliable on microprocessors (especially engine control), the firmware for these devices is encrypted to make it harder for other companies/garages to offer maintenance and repair services. Do not be surprised if this becomes more and more common place in the next years. It is up to the customer to voice his discontent with this development.

Just my 2c

Re:remote diagnostics

[enrico_suave]

I'm not sure I'd trust remote diagonstics...

Car manufacturers do insidious things with their ability to "code" stuff into the onboard computer.

For example nissan purposely ratcheted down the HP of one of their cars in software/firmware and then of course sells an "add on kit" where you get that hp "back" for $$$.

Say nothing of the idiot light's that go on ("ooooh check engine, I'm scared.. I better pull over and get towed to a dealership right away!") at specified intervals/mileage to have people bring in their cars for a manufacturers recommended fleecing.

(note sometimes check engine does indicate a "real" problem... or an emissions issue... YMMV... and if your oil light comes on, for the love of god don't continue driving it for an hour till the engine siezes... pull over and call your husband and/or put some damn oil in!!!! Wait, was that my "outside voice/text"?)

e.

silly

[TheSHAD0W]

The idea is simply silly. The fact that the hood opens isn't for women to pop open when their cars break down so they can stare at it and wonder why it's not running. (Men either...) It's for the MECHANIC's convenience. Even if it's a Volvo certified shop, to have to pull the vehicle into a bay and hook it up to some gizmo to lift off the front end to replace a plug wire that fell off the distributor is silly. Especially when the vehicle is still under warranty, and the manufacturer is footing the bill. I suspect if Volvo ever implemented this sort of scheme they'd wind up replacing the front ends with ones with standard bonnets just to eliminate the extra load on their dealers' mechanics.

Reliability vs. Cost of Access

[G4from128k]

While I doubt that cars have reached this point, there will come a time when it makes economic sense to "weld the hood shut." Building a nice easy-open car hood does cost money. If a car were as reliable as most consumer electronics, there would be little reasons for most people to get inside the hood on a routine basis. Cars are n't there yet, but as engine reliability increases, there will be less reason to get under the hood and thus less reason to pay for all the parts and mechanisms needed to made a door on the front of the car.

When was the last time you needed get inside your car's radio? (OK, I know I posting on /. and someone hacker out their will have done something interesting inside their car radio)

The point is that if the cost of providing access exceeds the benefits of providing access, then you get products with "no user servicable parts inside."

Re:HONDAS dont break

[cbiltcliffe]

This won't cost more - it'll cost less. At least for those of us buying relatively new vehicles. For the rest of you saps buying 5-10 year old vehicles - EAT MY SEALED CARS DUST!!!

And if the person who's going to buy your car off you when it's 5 years old can't open the hood to fix it themselves, how much do you think they're going to pay you for it? You'll buy a nice shiny new plastic piece of crap with zero resale value.

The vision just popped into my head of dozens of these cars at 10 years old or so driving around major cities with no hood, because the owner ripped it off and left it off.
Volvo hot-rod, anyone? Problem is, I'm sure the practical V6 with hundreds of wires and sensors, so cluttered that you can't even see the engine, won't look nearly as impressive as a chromed 396 big block chevy.

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[beaubell]

According to this article, the metal frame of an automobile acts as a faraday cage and is therefore immune to EMP blasts.
http://www.aussurvivalist.com/nuclear/empprotectio n.htm

Of course this wouldn't be the case with cars built with plastic frames.

Time to be a Volvo mechanic (cha-ching!)

[codefool]

YCC Chick: What seems to be wrong with my car?
Tow Truck Driver: Welp, it seems you've done busted a fan belt.
YCCC: Golly! Can you fix it? I mean, I'm stuck out here in the rain in the middle of nowhere.
TTD: No problem, little lady. Fan belts aint't no real trick. Happens all the time.
YCCC: Will it cost very much? I mean, I just spent all my money on this groovy car built by women, for women.
TTD: The fan belt will cost you about twelve bucks, but the installtion will be about twelve-hundred.
YCCC: WTF!?
TTD: Welp, you see we gotta tow this honey to a Volvo dealer, and they have to take the front end apart to install the fan belt. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days.
YCCC: (crying) But, its so easy to refill the washer fluid...

Give me a freakin break...

what next?

[Pragmo D]

Well, this certainly is reminiscent of the Windows mentality of marketing. These days, consumers want all the benefits of modern technology, without the bother of having actually understand how any of it works. This creates a whole industry of service-related jobs, such as mechanics (or tech support lackies) who, in many cases, do nothing more than a reasonably interested and intelligent owner could do themselves with a bit of research.

Welding the bonnet shut makes perfect sense

[Moderation abuser]

But it only makes sense if you only ever consider the first 3 years (i.e. the warranty period) of a car's life. After that the car gets passed on to the second user market, no longer with a warranty.

How does the new owner of a perfectly good 3 year old car replace the battery? It becomes an hour labour for a mechanic plus the cost of the battery (90). And think about the amount of time you have to take out of your day to take the car to a dealer's garage, several hours. It only takes 10 mins to replace a battery normally (30). How about a new fan belt?

The problem with manufacturers who think like this is that they only care about the first user who buys the car new from a showroom. The second and subsequent users are irrelevant to them. This will obviously affect the resale value of their cars.

You DON'T fix a modern car by yourself

[Squashee]

Sure, welding the hood shut is a very provocative step, and the majority of the comments are about "stopping on a highway" etc. You think you can fix engine problems on new, modern cars yourself? Think again. I have many times over stripped my 90' volvo 245 EEC engine, and that I can fix, but my motherns new Renault? No way. Don't even know where to start. Modern car engines are extremly complicated and compact, and they contain a LOT of stuff that wasn't there on your ol' chevy. You might know the error, but you even can't find/reach the component! You actually do need specialist help to fix you'r car these days, or at least you need a extra trailer with equipment and tools. I doubt the majority of the people who talk about the "stranded on the side of a highway" actually have ever tried to fix something on a car built this millenium.

Re:You DON'T fix a modern car by yourself

[trash eighty]

so if you have a welded shut bonnet you can't even hope a roadside recovery mechanic can fix it.

Meaningless analogy

[Junks Jerzey]

Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?

Okay, this is an absolutely terrible analogy. Why?

Engines are mechanical devices and wear down and break, just from everyday use. This doesn't happen to software. It doesn't wear out and break because you use it every day.

The majority of street car engines are essentially the same. If you understand the principles, you'll understand the principles in any car. Software is not the same. Just because you understand the architecture of a particular database program doesn't mean you have a clue about the architecture of other database programs. Obviously it doesn't mean you have a clue about the architecture of random page layout programs, photo editing programs, C++ compilers, and so on.

Along the same lines, which do you think is more complex? A car engine or the source code to gcc? Theres absolutely no doubt that it's the latter by an order of magnitude.

Just because you can open the hood to your car doesn't mean you know what to do with all those big boxes of chips and wires and a computer controlled fuel injector and so on. If you're riding down the highway and all of a sudden your digital speedometer goes our--or even simpler, the "check engine" light comes on--explain to me how lifting the hood is going to help you. Maybe in the 1970s when cars were simpler. Ditto for most software.

One of the keys to open source, one that even the advocates miss, is that it goes hand in hand with SIMPLICITY. If you have a well-written, clear, and short program, then you can tinker with it. You can't tinker with 200,000 lines of code, unless you have someone to walk through it with you and answer your questions. In reality, odds are that a blind change, no matter how experienced you are, is not going to be a good match for an architecture you don't fully understand.

Please, so-called open source advocates, enough with the soundbites and naive viewpoints. Be realistic.

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[jridley]

I have to disagree. The advantages of modern engine control are huge. Computer control has given us tons in terms of increased efficiency and horsepower, decreased emissions, and increased integration between components; IE when you stomp on the gas, the computer turns off the A/C for a few seconds to divert power to the drivetrain.

Computer engine control was kind of rough when it first started being used; the computers died a lot, they were susceptible to sensor failure, etc. Now they're way better, and engines are FAR more reliable than they were before computers.

I for one don't want to go back to the days of carburetors and distributors. Fuel injection and coil packs or coil-on-plug, along with the computer(s) to control them, have made cars LOADS more reliable. Sure, it may be harder to work on them, but you don't NEED to work on them nearly as much.

Try taking a 1969 car and driving it 120,000 miles without doing anything more than changing the oil.

Also, I find that in most cases it's EASIER to work on my car with a computer. Without a computer you only know if there's something wrong if it's bad enough to cause serious performance degradation. With a computer, you can catch problems way before they become serious. I had a light a few months ago, went to the auto parts store, borrowed their scanner, saw that I had a stuck EGR valve, wrenched it off, cleaned it, and replaced it. Without the computer I'd never have had a clue, just kept polluting more than necessary, and possibly fouling my catalytic converter as well.

I do have to agree about the shut hood though. I'd never even consider buying a car like this, or letting anyone in my family buy one.

I think they're missing a bit by saying this is "for women" - most men never do anything under the hood, either; I know men that are more hopeless mechanically than many women I know. One of the best mechanics I've ever had was female. I think the whole thing is kind of insulting.

The funniest thing is

[The Tyro]

the quote about Volvo's CEO:

"a mood encouraged by women-friendly Volvo boss Hans-Olov Olsson."

Hmmmm... that's a curious statement open to misinterpretation. Now what'd they mean by that, eh?... exactly how "women-friendly" is he? wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more... (sorry... BBC article... had to throw that in...)

UNIX-ish

[Bud]

"If the car says nothing, then everything is fine," said Ms Temm optimistically.

Cool. This is really a good idea from a user interface point of view, and one which makes the UNIX shell so nice to work with. If you get no response from the shell command, it means that things went just fine.

Speaking of welded-shut motor hoods... you know, I'd hate to cruise down the highway and see the warning message on the panel: "You have shifted into fifth gear. The change will take effect after you have restarted the motor. Restart now? [Yes] [No]"...

--Bud

I'm a car guy, but I'm lost.

[karmaflux]

Will someone explain to me the benefit to the customer of having a hood stuck shut? Why would someone pay for that, rather than buying a cheaper car and just not opening the hood?

Re:HONDAS dont break

[Bendebecker]

I wonder if you their are other bodies you can fit on the cars fram. If so, you could pull a hood and front end off another car and put it on it. Sort of like the Alero and the '94 Mustang. It looks like the Alero ahs the same body design so you could probably use some parts interchangebly. Even if you couldn't, I can just see the future: instead of case mods you have hood mods. Clear ones, custom ones, '70's ones.

How will this bomb? Let me count the ways...

[jejones]

Panders to stereotypes about women a la the "Math is hard" Barbie.
Seems to think women are vain creatures who want to be the Imelda Marcos of car seat covers.
"The engine's on fire--quick, call the mechanic to open it up!"
"That fender bender will run you $2000 to replace the one-piece front end..."

Maybe it's different in England

[The Tyro]

but I'd never ask my wife to stand on the side of a US interstate with the hood up, waiting for who-the-hell-knows to stop... that's a recipe for disaster in some parts of the country. Now, I myself stop for people from time to time (it's my medic's instinct to see if they need help), but I don't expect them to trust me... and if they hint I should drive on, I always do so.

That's what cell phones are for... I'm not trying to insult you here, so please don't take it that way, but I'd never leave my wife dependent on the kindness of strangers.

Like I say, maybe it's different in England.

Re:Maybe it's different in England

[tiled_rainbows]

"I'd never ask my wife to stand on the side of a US interstate with the hood up"

Well, no, not if I was in the car, too. I'd probably and stand there with her for a bit, before suggesting we close the bonnet, find a pub and call the AA (like your AAA, not like your AA) from there.

Seriously, though, I wasn't saying it was necessarily the best idea in the world, but she was just saying that in those cases when she was stranded at the side of the road with no-one to come to her aid, then she'd appreciate being able to raise the bonnet, if only for purely symbolic reasons.

I don't know if there are fewer serial killers/rapists/whatever in England than in the US, but, based on my limited knowledge of US culture (mainly informed by Hollywood), I think there might be a greater fear of them over your side of the pond.

Re:Maybe it's different in England

[AlecC]

I'd be inside it with the doors locked

Current advice in Britain is not to wait inside your car if the weather permits because of the remarkably high chance of getting shunted - hard - by another vehicle. You should get out of the vehicle and as far from the road as possible (e.g. behind the crash barrier). Basically, your chance of getting hit by a massive truck is much greater than your chance of a bad guy spotting you and stopping. I can't remember the fraction of accidents involving breakdowns on the side of the road, but I remember being startled by it. Emergency services now park their vehicle about 20 yards behind the breakdown to ensure that, if there is a hit, it is the empty emergency service van that gets hit. Even so, and despite their being covered with flashing lights, they still get hit.

You need a sense of priorities. Outside know "no go" areas, ordinary "innocent" traffic is a far greater danger than muggers, serial killers etc.

Re:Maybe it's different in England

[ichimunki]

based on my limited knowledge of US culture (mainly informed by Hollywood), I think there might be a greater fear of them over your side of the pond.

Greater fear, yes. Greater risk? Maybe not so much. Probably what is fair to say about both sides of the Atlantic is that we all spend too much time worrying about things that have very low probabilities but are shocking, rather than worrying about more realistic and common dangers that we have more control over.

In any case, I don't have a car (by choice, you can't imagine how much money I save). So I guess I'll have to wait for the girls to make a bike where the gears are all encased in metal and where the seats come in different colors to match my riding gloves before I can get in on the smugness and macho superiority trip.

Re:Maybe it's different in England

[rkww]

You need a sense of priorities.

The Automobile Association (AA) - one of the UK's major roadside assistance organisations - has the following advice:

"There is a perception that a 'lone female' is at risk of being attacked on a motorway hard shoulder. Research shows that the risk of being hit by another vehicle is much greater."

Re:Maybe it's different in England

[haroldK]

I was taught in driver's ed that when stalled on the side of the road and needing assistance, you are to open the hood and the trunklid as well as turning on the hazards. I don't know about your state, but police officers drive around on public roads and are supposed to help those in need.

In Minnesota, we also have the added benefit of "Highway Helpers." These folks drive around in bright green state-owned trucks with gasoline and various other things. They also notice people with the hood and trunk open.

Also, not everybody who can afford a car can afford a cell phone. Obviously, if this car coems to market, those unable to afford a cell phone will not be able to afford this car, but hoods that aren't openable by the user aren't a good idea in general.

The folks at Volvo who came up with this idea thought it was great, but they don't appear to realize that if you've got a hood, that doesn't mean you have to open it. You can still relocate the wiper fluid fill by the gas while leaving the hood accessable.

Re:Maybe it's different in England

[slipgun]

Thats because in America, we have shoulders on our roads, instead of barely the width of 2 cars.

English roads are generally designed with steering-wheels in mind.

Re:Maybe it's different in England

[B3ryllium]

Hmm, I sense wise description of how most people treat open source in that final paragraph ...

Re:Maybe it's different in England

[sawmillnc]

Yeah..haven't you English seen the "The Hitcher" or "The Road Warrior" American highways are swarming with those type of people...On a parallel universe tangent, I would like to see Mel Gibson do an amalgam movie that incorporated "The Passion of Christ", "Beyond Thunder Dome", "The Hitcher" and finally " Braveheart"

Men can have ponytails too.

[hpulley]

I'm a man and wore a ponytail for about 8 years or so and I can say that it did get in the way a little when putting my head against the headrest -- a topknot worked fine but doesn't suit me most of the time... Most cars don't put your head close enough to the headrest that this matters (or that they actually prevent whiplash) but in cars like Volvos where they are close, it does matter.

Porsche Boxster anyone?

[OlivierB]

For the richest ones out there. Buyingg a POrsche Boxster is surely not the best choice if you want to get a crowd when opening the bonnet. The ONLY thing you can see is the Oil jauge! The engine in placed in the center of the car (unlike 911s whose engines are at the back end). This also means that you cannot easily make some parts replacements yourself. The best thing for sealed bonnets/ difficult to access engines is not about warranties for the manufacturers but for the servifce they charge. That's right changing the dyno in a Porsche boxster can only be done by a dealer as you have to lower the WHOLE engine. That means a lot of billable hours for one single part. Thank god Porsches are the most reliable sport cars out there.

Re:Porsche Boxster anyone?

[MKalus]

Well,

if you have the money for a luxury car then you should also have the money to pay for repairs, no?

Re:Porsche Boxster anyone?

[lucifuge31337]

Boxters aren't exactly expensive in comparision to real Porsches (real meaning 911s). Furthermore, 911's are exactly a treat to work on. They have most of the same issues with accessing anything.

Fortunately, they both have 2 things going for them:

1.) The engine placement is not to screw the owner. It is there because it makes the weight of the vehicle properly balanced for suspension perfoemnce.
2.) It's not actually all THAT had to drop the motors in these things. While I've never dropped the motor in the Boxter, I've done sone on 911's and VW Beetles (the old body style) more times than I can count (remember, the beetle is designed after the 911, and is very similar in construction), I'm told they are much the same. Your' looking at a couple of harnesses, and about 6 bolts. If you have a proper transmission style jack, it's not really a big deal. Anyone without these facilities (or the desire to get them) probably doesn't need to be monkeying around with their engine to begin with.

And most importantly, this really has little to do with the article. The Volvo concept car mentioned in it is really a totally different animal with different design goals in mind.

Re:I nominate this...

[BlackHawk]

• The scenario that comes most easily to mind is that of the car breaking down on the highway. What are you going to do, without a cellphone, without being able to access the hood?

What are you going to do anyway? The overwhelming majority of people I know do not carry a full set of tools in their car, and even if they do, they carry little to no spare parts. So you break down. You can perform Manly Car Manuever #1: open the hood and stare at the engine. Even if you can diagnose the problem, what are you going to do without replacement parts?

• What if the temp outside is subzero and you're 5 miles from the nearest inhabitant?

And the ability to open the hood here means you can not only perform MCM #1 (detailed above), but you can do #'s 2 and 3: Freeze your ass off while doing it, and cuss at it.

• Crits aside though, the car is pretty nice, and it is also good to see that we are able to make cars easier for the dumba^H^H^H^H^Hnormal people who drive cars and don't want to be concerned with how their car works.

Oh, you're one of those zealots. Now I understand the basis for your objection. Religious issues...

There's nothing that says a person can't know how the car works, and still not want to... or be able to, even!... perform their own maintenance on that car. The concepts here are, frankly, brilliant in that they take into account the existing desires of the target market. A lot has been written here about "reinforcing stereotypes", but the fact remains that most people (men and women) do not perform their own maintenance. Ergo, make the car so they don't have to.

A better article on this project, which is called "Your Concept Car" or YCC, can be found at http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article= 6907 and explains some of the features in more detail, including the big one: the first maintenance stop is at 35,000 miles.

Dukes of Hazard

[johns713]

Remember The General Lee? The Duke boys had it's doors wielded shut. And it worked well for them. Who's to say that having a hold wielded shut won't work for everyone else. I say it is worth a try as long as I can slide across the hood before doing a get away. YEEE HAAWWW!!!

Rolls-Royce

[GuyFawkes]

When they started out the bonnet (hood) WAS locked shut, and only a Rolls Royce engineer (not mechanic) could open it.

As to all the predictable comments about "what if the big end blows etc" people had the same concerns way back then, and the response from Rolls?
"Rolls Royce motor cars do not break down"

and there was of course a lot of truth in that comment, they were fiednishly expensive but they were genuinely far more robust than the average car of the day, so /.ers may need to consider the marketing aspect here, Vulva are probably merely on a PRbunny trip about quality and exclusivity rather than making any machanical MTBF type statements.

Of course Rolls Royce is no longer english, it was sold to the germans, and quite apart from the new rollers not being rollers any more and being quite hideous, along with the change of ownership all the old paperwork and marketing guff will have moved office... now who really owns vulva nowadays?

parents could use removable seats

[hpulley]

Kids are crawling, walking, talking, oozing mess machines so parents could sure use washable seat covers. Vinyl seats were good for some things!

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[Bendebecker]

Just wait to the Chryslus Highwayman comes out - no computer components and with brakes too! juts make sure you remember to keep a spare fuel cell controller in a sealed lead box. Never knwo when a vault dweller's decendent may need it...

This isn't 1970 anymore!

[bluGill]

Cars manufactures have changed over the years. At one time Honda really was significantly more reliable than Ford. Many people have let Honda slide on this reputation for years, paying for more, for a car that isn't really any better than something that others can give.

Hondas have problems too. Fords have problems. I don't know who builds the better car this year, and we can't know for 20 years. Until then it is just a guess. Some years Honda builds good cars, some years they don't. People are willing to forgive Honda for a bad car because "everyone has a few problems", but Ford with just as many problems just adds to their reputation of not building good cars. It isn't right.

Men can hate fixing cars too.

[freejamesbrown]

Frankly, I'd much rather be knowledgeable about Apache's internals than my Subaru.

There's only so much brain! The car just gets me to where I use it. Ideally, I would use as little brain as possible in the transportation process. I'd love autopilot for monotonous highway driving.

m.

For people that didn't read the article

[hng_rval]

Quote:
Volvo will never actually take this car into production, of course.
But many of the ideas hatched by the female think-tank may still appear in more conventional Volvos, as well as in other cars within the group.

Re:HONDAS dont break

[Beowulf_Boy]

Alero is GM, Mustang is ford....you must be thinking of a Mercury.

And they already make custom hoods, and even clear ones. Welcome to the world of Carbon Fiber hoods.

The need for certified wizards - balderdash

[fnj]

"Are you saying that you could open the hood of a 2004 Audi and diagnose even a small problem?"

Er, yes. Well, not literally yes, because mine is a 1999 VW, and I don't need to open the hood. I spent a couple hundred bux on something called a VAG-COM (VAG-COM) that hooks up the OBD-II connector of any reasonably recent VW/Audi to a Windows notebook. It reads out the diagnostic codes in plain english - something like "temperature sensor shorted to ground" or "MAF signal intermittent" or whatever. It does a lot of other helpful stuff, too.

Many other brands have similar tools available.

The hood comes into the equation only because mine actually opens, and I can actually change out the temperature sensor after finding out that it is bad. But even if I had an Audi A2, if I knew a mechanic with the ability to get inside, at least I could tell him never mind the diagnosis, I want part such-and-such changed.

Now, as it happens, I don't choose to do much of my own work, but I did find out my MAF was bad, and changed it out. I bought the part from the internet for 1/5 what the stealership would have charged, and changed it literally in 5 minutes, a pliers-only job which probably would have been at least $200 for diagnosis and labor, not counting parts, at the stealership.

Re:Magnets?

[jandrese]

I doubt it will do much to HDDs, they're reasonably well shielded from this sort of low level magnetic fields. I'd worry more about floppies, and much more about my credit cards.

Food for thought

[Syberghost]

Interesting that when a bunch of women design a car, they make choices that, if made by a man designing a car for women, would be derided as stereotypical.

Actually....

[SkorpiXx]

My friend's girlfriend's dad (hearsay?) lived in Kuwait City for a couple of months. In this city there is such an influx of wealth from the oil, that the idea of "disposable cars" isn't that much of a farce.

There would be almost new vehicles abandoned on the side of the road because the car's battery died or it got a flat tire or it was low on oil. They have enough money that they can do that.

So one day he goes to a junkyard, finds two identical Mercedez, one with a flat tire and one with a dead battery. He replaces the battery from the flat tire car and drives off. ::shudder::

S

Re:It's a car for the clueless

[Aumaden]

Proof positive that some people should not be allowed under the hood.

I'd rather see a hood lock where you can only get the key if you pass a basic competency test.

Out of curiosity, where's the battery in this car? How would one get a jump start if you need a mechanic to open the hood?

You Silly Little Women...

[robathome]

/me pulls string on the back of Automobile Barbie...

>zip<

"Cars are haaaaard. ::tee hee::"

>zip<

"My seats match my outfit!"

>zip<

"Can you check my oil with your dipstick, Mr. Mechanic?"

Not to mention freezing point

[bluGill]

If I had water in my break lines today I couldn't drive, because my break fluid would be froozen solid. The tempature outside is currently below freezing.

Corrosion can be delt with by various materials. I wouldn't place it as a major problem for brake lines anyway. I live in the "rust belt", where salt on the roads all winter long destroys cars. Brake line failures are rare around here.

Steam can be delt with too, just keep pumping more water into the lines. Not convient, and a lot harder to control the pressue, but it could be done.

Setting the morons straight

[Anita Coney]

A lot of people here are saying, "What's the big deal, we never fix our own cars anyway?!" And they are mostly right. Other than changing my battery, I would never repair my own car.

However, they are missing the larger picture. If the manufacturer is the only entity that can repair the vehicle, the profit will not come from the sale but from the repair.

And once the repair of the vehicle becomes the means of profit, manufacturers will have NO incentive to make quality automobiles. They will have every incentive to create automobiles that WILL require repairs, because that would fit perfectly with their new business model.

Re:Setting the morons straight

[tazanator]

I agree and find it odd that for my Class A CDL lic to drive semi (lowery in britian) I have to preform a 117 point inspection and log it and virfy/sign it before releasing the brakes. For the army I had a 23 page inspection list to follow. If you can't get in to look at it how do you know it is safe to operate?

Anger will prevail

[Explodo]

I think it may happen for a certain class of throw-away cars, but it won't be norm for a very long time. There are just too many people who know how to get under their own hood to take that away. If you want to ensure that it never happens, make sure you make your kids do their own car work and instill in them the idea that being able to fix your own car is something to be proud of. The first time someone who actually knows how to replace their own air filter ($12-$15 for a standard one) has to pay the dealer $100 to do it, they'll never buy a car like that again.

Bah! I got something better welded shut

[Chillywang]

The DOORS, so I can slide in and out of my 1969 Dodge Charger like it's nobody's business.

Them Duke boys got themselves in a heap a' trouble again.

Re:computers + internal combustion engines = stupi

[MrBlue VT]

A lot of the time you don't even need the scanner. If you have the shop manual, it tells you which pins on the diagnostic port to short together, then the console light will start blinking in morse code, which can then be referenced in the book to find out what the problem is. Very nice feature.

Of course you need the shop manual, but I buy that with every new car, it's about $100 or so, but it is definately worth it in the long run.

Petrol on the windscreen

[kmichels]

Putting the Windscreen washer fluid top-up near the petrol tank hole . . . hehehe - gonna be interesting if that gets muddled, especially when driving slowly past people smoking their ciggies and cleaning your windscreen after inadvertently filling up the washer bottle with petrol.

And we won't even go into the implications of filling your petrol tank with nice soapy water . . .

That "Check Engine" light

[Baron_Yam]

The number one thing that most often turns on that damn light;

A loose gas cap. If that light comes on, this is the first thing you check, because paying $100 for a mechanic to do it sucks a LOT. Luckily, I used to work in a garage so I learned this from OTHER people's experience.

Of course, after those are a whole host of things that don't even give particularly clear indicators to the tech with the manufacturer's diagnostic equipment.

Oh, but they do.

[autechre]

Well, they don't go back to the drawing board each year. However, my brother has a ('95? '97?) Escort station wagon, which according to what I've heard is the year that Ford finally built that model correctly, at which point they threw out that design and started with a crappy one all over again.

People have actually tried to buy it from him, because if you want a Ford station wagon, that's apparently your best option.

For years, my father owned nothing but American (company, anyway) cars because that was what he knew how to fix. But he just bought a new car for the first time in years (the last few were used), and it was a Honda. Since he subscribes to a large network of mechanics (as part of his job), he can find out what breaks on which cars when, and he doesn't make uninformed decisions.

WTF.

[juuri]

This is totally wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin. All the plastic covers under the hood can be released with either a dime or a flat head screw driver; They are simple pop screws. Even more troubling is your contention that removing a protective cover to jump a car would void the warranty, where did that come from? What part of your brain made that up?

BTW *all* regular maintenance is included with newer audis for the length of the warranty, when a car comes out it is easy to turn off the info notices.

I'm sorry the mechanic there was unskilled and you and your friend are morons, hopefully life isn't too hard for you.

What's wrong with everyone. It's a concept Car.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a production model. It's a concept car to test different concepts. There are various good concepts in the car. All the diffirent ways to get more storage room are really great. Hopefully, those storage ideas all make it into some model. The idea of having a separate port for the window washer is great. Why open the entire hood when you just need to refill the window washer.

Some ideas will make it to production cars, some will not. The maintenance free idea is probably everyone's dream. I see it as an extension of the hybrid car. The petrol/gasoline engine doesn't run as much and also runs at it's more efficient setting, so it takes more miles on the vehicle to require servicing. No radiator fluid is needed, because the smaller engine produces less heat. All the other parts probably follow the standard service periods. We all know approximately how long rubber belts will last before they fail. It's practically the same for almost every car. We know approximately how long batteries last. Tires have their own service periods, which is much longer than than the oil change and tune-up. It's a lower maintenance car.

When we get fuel cells and get rid of the petrol/gasoline engine, there will be even less parts to worry about failing. Electric motors last quite a long time. No more sparc plugs or engine oil changes. Just a fuel cell, which has non-moving parts, similar to a battery. Time between maintenance will certainly stretch beyond the 31,000 miles on volvo's concept car.

Cars Designed For Women Are Stupid (To This Woman)

[Buran]

Seat covers removable for cleaning

We need a concept car for this? That's what seat covers are for.

Seats with covers changeable to match my outfit

I have black seats. If I didn't have black seats, I'd have grey seats. Black and grey go with anything. But IT'S A CAR, NOT A DRESS. I get in the car to go somewhere. If I wear something nice, it has nothing to do with what the car looks like.

Auto-adjusting seats and pedals

Fantastic. I want this. My seat goes up and down and back and forth and the back tilts up and down, and the steering column goes up and down and in and out, but why can't I move the pedals back and forth? It's been done, and I'm short and I could really, really use that feature. Where is it?! Oh, and why can't I adjust the seatbelt more? I have to use cheap plastic adjusters to keep it off my neck, since a seatbelt on the neck is unsafe and uncomfortable.

Back seats that fold down only when needed

Well, that can be interesting, but I can either leave my seats folded down for carrying large stuff or just put stuff on the seats. Does this give me any more room than just leaving the seats as they are?

Hidden umbrella

Now that I like. I'm not sure where mine is and it's raining like crazy outside. I need to get one of those ultra-small foldable ones and stow it in the CD changer cubbyhole.

Welded-shut hood

Now this is stupid. Their justification is that people don't want to open the hood except when they want to refill washer fluid or check the oil. So they just want to put in a smaller hatch for that. Um... okay. So what's wrong with having one single hood that allows access to the engine AND allows refilling of vital fluids? I like being able to check my engine's condition and refill things and do whatever I want to it, like reverse VW's stupid decontenting (the car didn't come with OEM fog lights but it has them anyway, screw you VW). You're stupid if you can't see the big blue-colored flap for the washer fluid tank that also has the standard 'washer fluid' symbol stamped into it. Same with the oil filler cap which has a large picture of an oil container on it. Make things easy for me to find, but DON'T mess with my ability to do whatever I want to the car I own.

Automatically notices if something's wrong and contacts garage

That's what the "check engine" light (also called MIL) is for. It lights up if something is wrong and I need to get it fixed. But I'll do it on my own good time (I'll have a a local VW club member bring their scanner tool to the next meeting, or just borrow it from them, find out what the car thinks is wrong, and call a shop of MY choosing if it's something serious requiring a mechanic to fix; last time the light came on it was a momentary sensor failure; a shop would have charged me $100 to tell me that and clear the code.)

Ponytail-proof headrest

Good idea in theory, for people who may need an extra bit of room for that or any other reason, but I bet it looks really stupid. I often wear my hair in a ponytail, and I didn't think it was bad enough to require this sort of thing...

Never to go into production

THANK GOODNESS.

Other interesting tidbits

But many of the ideas hatched by the female think-tank may still appear in more conventional Volvos, as well as in other cars within the group.

Volvo is a subsidiary of Ford, and the Swedish carmaker's idiosyncratic insistence on practicality and safety seems to be spreading within the group.

Take the new Mondeo which is to be built on the Volvo S60 platform.

The decision was apparently taken after Volvo refused to accept plans to use a Mazda platform across the group since it did not live up to its safety standards.

Yay!

Found Dead...

[Lodragandraoidh]

I can see it now: thousands of these autos found dead along the roadside like a flock of dinosaurs...the engines having seized up from running out of oil...

Modern aircraft still use dipsticks, because sensors don't always work.

Re:Gas vs. petrol

[blincoln]

While this is true, it is also unfortunate. Cooking on an electric range top sucks.

OTOH, electric range feed lines can't develop leaks of invisible, explosive gas.

When I buy a house, I plan on switching to an induction range to get the best of both worlds.

Trunk vs. Boot?

[soft_guy]

My grandmother is about 80 years old and from rural Oklahoma. She refers to that part of a car as a "turtle hull". Apparently a common expression among country people.

Re:It's a car for the clueless

[einTier]

My 1988 Toyota Celica did the same thing. It had several neat tricks like this.

First, if you had the headlights on and turned off the car, they would stay on until you opened the door. Opening the door with the lights on and ignition switched off caused them to go off. But, this could be overridden by simply switching the lights back on. Then they wouldn't go back off until you turned them off.

Second, if you had the keys in the ignition and the door open, you couldn't lock the power door locks. Well, you could, but they would spring open a half second later, no matter if you locked it manually or with the button. Better yet, you couldn't trick this one. I once had the door open, took the keys out, locked the car, then deliberately put the key back in the ignition. Then I shut the locked door. The Celica detected the locked door, the fact that it was shutting, and the fact that my keys were in the car, and unlocked the door! The only way to lock the keys in the car was somehow lock the door while it was already shut (meaning you were in the car or had an extra set) or by leaving them on the seat instead of the ignition (as I accidently did one wintery night).

I've often wondered why this wasn't implimented in more cars. It was unobtrusive, never interfered with how I wanted to use the car and kept me from hurting myself. That's the epitome of good design.

Re:Gas vs. petrol

[SnappleMaster]

"Gas appliances are fairly uncommon in North America. The majority of stoves, hot water heaters, etc, are electric."

That depends where you live. In all the places I've lived in Canada and the US hot water has always been gas except in old cruddy student housing with ancient water heaters bought back in the day when electric was competitive. Electric furnaces are even more rare, and usually only found (where I've lived anyways) only in older houses.

Stoves yes are mostly electric. Which is silly because a gas stove is just *so* much better!

My mum's car has this...

[holizz]

She can open it but it just has holes for oil and wiper fluid. Surely this is anti-competetive if only Skoda can open her bonnet (hood). (I'm just guessing that they can open it. I HOPE they can open it)
It's a Skoda um... Fabia/Felicia maybe? It might start with a f...

So we shifted the filling station for washer fluid to the side of the car, next to where you fill up fuel, and we closed the bonnet for good.

Yeah that's nice that it's been moved to a convenient place so you don't need to open the bonnet but surely moving a few tubes doesn't mean the bonnet should be permanently closed. What possible reason do they have for welding the thing shut? Let's see... there's aesthetics and there's anti-competitive practices. I'm sure it'll be for aesthetics when the competition comission ask them.

Volvo doesn't seem likely to do this

[fishbowl]

My Volvo, a 740 station wagon from 1991, is *extremely* simple and extremely shadetree-mechanic friendly. I put it in the same category as VW on this count. Or, 1950's - 60's American cars.

I have, single handedly and without many tools:

Changed (upgraded) the front and rear suspension, steering rods, and brakes.

Installed aftermarket torsion bars.

Changed the wheel geometry.

Installed an exhaust header and modified throttle body.

Upgraded the cooling system.

Changed the timing belt.

Now, granted, I'm something of an amateur mechanic with a good toolbox, but I didn't need anything special to do this stuff. There is NOTHING on this car that's at all mysterious. Even the electronics for the fuel injection aren't that strange. You open the hood, and it's *sparse* in there. There's no question what wires go where, what hoses are what, etc. And there's room to move around.

What's my point? *ALL* Volvos share this design. If they mess up the design, they'll only mess it up for the US market. Canadian and European models won't get that treatment, nor will any car destined for Israel. (When you pay a 100% tax on a car, you expect to be able to maintain it forever.)