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RFID for Automobile Tracking
mindless4210 writes "The U.S. Department of Transportation's Federal Highway Administration has called on four of the largest RFID manufacturers to jointly develop dedicated short-range communications technology systems for a trial as part of the agency's efforts to cut road fatalities in the U.S. by 50% within 10 years. The DSRC prototype initiative is a prerequisite for introducing new roadway applications such as issuing alerts to drivers about impending intersection collisions, rollovers, weather-related road hazards, or warning a driver that his vehicle is going too fast to safely negotiate an upcoming curve. The FCC allocated the entire 5.9 GHz band to DSRC applications some time ago, making the development much more feasible. Any DRSC system would require DRSC technology to be built into new vehicles."
Can you even begin to think about the privacy implications of something like this? I know that I will never buy a car with RFID tracking capabilities built into it! What happens when the government agencies that don't care so much about your rights--CIA, FBI, NSA, police, whatever--decide that this system can be very useful for them? There's a million things that could go wrong
This is the article that I originally posted to slashdot.
Wireless News www.DailyWireless
[...] such as issuing alerts to drivers about impending intersection collisions, rollovers, weather-related road hazards, or warning a driver that his vehicle is going too fast to safely negotiate an upcoming curve
Riiiiiight... they're wanting this system incorporated to protect you. They'd never dream of setting up receivers in traffic lights at (major) intersections to track the movement of people. Watch: it will be a crime to disable these systems, "for your safety" of course.
Yeah, yeah; I may need a tinfoil hat. Ask yourself, though, do you feel safer?
Trolling is a art,
It's one of those privacy tradeoffs that actually looks quite good.
:)
RFID couldn't be used at this stage to track all the cars in the USA
so the chance of it impinging on your privacy is rather low.
However, with estimates of a 50% reduction in road deaths.. That's quite a dividend.
I for one welcome our new RFID overlords
Simon.
Now I just have to figure out a way to get my car into the microwave...
... tin foil hat and used car sales skyrocket.
..I'm all for improving highway safety, but in a grand cosmic sorta way, we're kinda fvcking with the order of nature here. Certain numbers of people HAVE to die and the couple hundred thousand taken out by cars and trucks every year is an effective way to curtail the population, especially the idiots prone to substance abuse (I'm one of them, but my numbers haven't come up yet...I'm excited for tomorrow though..)
And plus, if we put RFID tags in cars, Ashcroft has won. And thats no good.
And you thought red light cameras were bad. Think about using technology such as this to find out a distance traveled in a certain amount of time. If each tag is tied to a specific vehicle, you could be getting all sorts of traffic citations in the mail. I think this is a horrible idea...
... ...
.. another save by Uncle Sam.
applications such as issuing alerts
(while seated in a board meeting, 28th floor overlooking metropolis, a small internal voice speaks)
"Sorry for this brief intrusion. This is your government speaking. The RFID tag embedded in your ass notified us moments ago. It appears as if you want to fart. This is just a warning - farting now, may be a bad idea, and could have unexpected consequences, and possible adverse career effects."
I can't wait till the readers are mounted at stop lights and over passes to monitor your speed...5 miles or more over and you get a ticket in the mail =)
watch fatalities, gas consumption drop and attitudes improve.
I am for that 100%
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Everytime someone mentions RFID, the privacy people get to sound off about being tracked and the government being out to get them
The article makes no mention of using this technology for anything other than alerting drivers about road conditions and paying tolls. Even the article title here on slashdot is misleading in that regard.
House of Delegates bans detector-detector-detector-detector ... ad-infinitum
RICHMOND, VA (AP) -- The House of Delegates has sent a bill to Gov. Warner making blocking RFID on cars illegal. They also appropriated $5 million to the State Police to equip trooper's cars with RFID blocker detectors and have set aside a portion of that money to buy RFID blocker detector-detector-detectors and made the posession of RFID blocker detector-detectors illegal. Any further detector-detectors will be made illegal barring a Commonwealth-wide brain explosion trying to understand it all. Virginia State Troopers are renowned as the Grey-Wheeled Wild Weasels because their cruisers resemble law-enforcement scale versions of electronic warfare airplanes used in Vietnam. The average cruiser has 4 alternators and 20 batteries used to power hundreds of radios, radars, VASCARs, remote rectal probes and other detection equipment, thus rendering the Old Dominion deserving of its nickname.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
First a chip in my head and now a RFID chip in my car. I'd be worried if i was interesting enough to be tracked.
warning a driver that his vehicle is going too fast to safely negotiate an upcoming curve
:)
I hope it doesn't beep, that could get annoying real fast.
"weather-related road hazards, or warning a driver that his vehicle is going too fast to safely negotiate an upcoming curve."
Who decides when a car is going to fast??? I live in Michigan and if your going the speed limit that's to slow. Would they warn you based on a spped limit or what the road is rated at. The expressways here are rated for safe speeds at 20 or 30 miles an hour faster than the speed limit. This is also different depending on the car. A jeep can topple over easier than a grand prix (for example). Who decides these things????
Evolution or ID?
no one has ever heard about driver training?
Let's get the idiots off the road.
- - - - - - - - - - -
I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
i don't see it as a big privacy concern...it's like saying a licence plate is a security issue...i mean take the tin foil hats off...your cell phone notifys where you are and even if it dosent if the wanna find you or track you they will and you wont even know about it...any type of comunication device can be tracked by triagulation....example is you have 2 microphones 100 yards a part and somone screem or a gun is fiered...as the sound hits the mics at difrent times and based on the location of the mics and the data they recive you can calculate the exact location of the source...same thing can be done to anything like radio waves and other frequincies...if you dont like it then move to garaho land ...other than that no reason to worry.
No, the DSRC prototype initiative is NOT a prerequisite to introducing the proposed new roadway safety applications. None of the proposed safety applications require individual identification of a vehicle. An application could issue the planned alerts and warnings without specifying or identifying the vehicle or its owner. If you are issuing a warning about a road hazard, or that vehicle is going too fast to make an upcoming turn, the identity of the vehicle and of the owner are irrelevant.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
funny my vehicle has the most expensive michelin tires they make for a light truck and no RFID transmission markers exist near any of them.. hell we swept both the inside and outside of each tire on the vehicle and nothing.... not even a peep..
so without any proof to say otherwise from you, i'd say you are very wrong...
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
With driving habits like that it's only a matter of time before someone is injured or killed. I may see one patrol car a week on this long heavily travelled stretch, usually on Friday.
Short of trackng drivers with a satellite the authorities aren't going to know it even happened. Then there's the matter of who was driving the car. Much to my chagrin, after a hit and run, I found the San Jose, CA, police could care less if I have a license number, description of car and could identify the face of the driver. Just fill out the forms and your insurance company will take care of it.
It's hard to feel one way of the other about this. How does John Ashcroft feel about it? I'll probably trend the other way, but I don't think this will solve anything.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Then again, perhaps they could team up with private companies to install this and WiFi into street lamps, kinda like this plan in the UK. That might get things rolling a bit faster.
- Compulsory seat-belt use (works in my area)
- Mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists (agan, works in my area)
- Zero tolerance for liquored-up drivers
- Restricted permits for new drivers (no rush hour, no driving between sunset and sun-up, etc).
- Governors on all engines so that it's not possible to exceed the speed limit
- Increased penalties for racing, reckless driving, etc.
- Removal of so-called "restricted permits" for people who have accumulated too many demerits.
- Mandatory retesting for anyone who has lost their license because of moving violations or booze.
- Get rid of "road tanks" (SUVs) that make people think they're invulnerable.
Of course, the above aren't techno-sexy ways of saving lives. But they would work. And, for those who are going to point out that these are unreasonable restrictions on freedoms, there's no such thing as a "right" to drive. It's a privilege.This is only very Loosely connected to RFID. in fact it's mostly journalist and executive hype throwing around a tech term to try and sound informed...
This will mostly amount to another alarm to annoy the driver....
"bing! you are exceeding the speed limit for this zone...."
"bing! there WAS a 13 car crash 3 miles from here underneat the "no reported road problems" sign...."
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
On the one hand, I'm not sure I oppose this system on principle. There's a lot of bad drivers out there (I'm lookin' at you, California and Utah), and something to say "Hey, assmuch, would it kill you to slow the hell down and stop putting on your mascara eating a bagle talking on your cell phone to your wife and just friggin' drive your car?"
On the other side, there's two things that I believe in:
a) Visible Law Enforcement
b) Leave the rest of us alone
You don't "punish" the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. You want to make the roads safe? Get more cops driving out there. Last time I checked, having more police (assuming good training, obey civil liberties, etc) on the roads tends to majorly disrupt crime of most kinds - whether its speeding, accidents, selling drugs, whatever. Those of us that are innocents will wave to the nice policeperson as we drive by knowing that Mr. Cruise Control keeps us from getting pulled over, while the idiot who likes to ride my bumper because I don't want to go 80 in the 65 MPH zone will think twice before passing on the right shoulder.
Without making me feel like a criminal in my own car because it has to remind me how to drive.
Just my $0.02. I could be wrong.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
The DSRC system will be more like a peer-to-peer system in which either end of a link can initiate a transaction; traditional RFID systems operate in a master-slave arrangement. This peer-to-peer architecture will be necessary because many planned applications are vehicle-to-vehicle ones, not involving the roadside RFID readers at all.
Excellent. So I'll be able to send a message to the jerk behind me, telling him to "STOP FRICKEN TAILGAITING, YOU NIMROD!"
Either that or share MP3's...
'Nuff said.
Will this thing send me the phone number of the jack ass in front of me so I can call him and get him out of the fast lane? ...hey, I'm beginning to like this thing.
Better yet, how about the number of hottie in the convertable next to me?
I guess my real question is this: when is it OK for the government to implement surveillance, tracking, monitoring, etc. in order to save lives? Or are we so afraid of own governments that we can't afford to allow such things?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
I know that I will never buy a car with RFID tracking capabilities built into it!
Your state will just put it in your license plate. Watch for it.
After all, they already hang a number on your car and require it to be visible - to eyes and to OCR cameras. Why not require it to be readable by radio, and save themselves some cost and flakeyness by replacing cameras with transcievers?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
2. Mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists (agan, works in my area)
3.Zero tolerance for liquored-up drivers
4. Restricted permits for new drivers (no rush hour, no driving between sunset and sun-up, etc).
5. Governors on all engines so that it's not possible to exceed the speed limit
6. Increased penalties for racing, reckless driving, etc.
7. Removal of so-called "restricted permits" for people who have accumulated too many demerits.
8. Mandatory retesting for anyone who has lost their license because of moving violations or booze.
9. Get rid of "road tanks" (SUVs) that make people think they're invulnerable.
AND
"...there's no such thing as a "right" to drive. It's a privilege."
I hate when people try to justify socialism or communism.
How do you KNOW 100% that the seat belt laws work, or that helmut laws work? The ONLY thing that is known is that it raises revenues for police departments.
It serves to add confusion to honesty. There ARE instances where it's OK not to have on a helmut on and there ARE instances where you may not have your seat belt on (ie, getting your wallet out or scratching your unmentionables) - you want to have to go and explain that in court? You want the judge to believe you?
I'm in agreeance with points 6, 7, and 8. but the others are nonsense and then justified with "right and privelege talk" - it is MY right to do whatever I want in this country - it is MY responsibility to make others safe and NOT infringe on the well being and laws of this country!
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
A large percentage of accidents are cause by someone not paying attention. Like going through a red light while distracted, or not being able to respond in time to a sudden stop. Usually, when people are near an accident, they are paying attention becasue the traffic conditions have changed.
It would only be a matter of time before any warning was deligated to 'background noise'/
Secondly, I imagine this turning into the device that Corbin Dallas had in his cab in 5th element.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I mean I've put up a better and more coherrent public defence of my spending and dubious affairs in front of the board of our corporation even when I've been royally hungover and weak on facts.
Please, don't make fun of our president.
It Hurts The Country.(TM)
m-
You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
I'm late for work, I jump in my underpowered Toyota Pyris hybrid and rush off for work. Manage to get it up to 66MPH and hear the speed alarm at just about the same moment I see the printer shoot off a slip of paper. A speeding ticket. These tickets have evolved to a sort of tax. The automated equipment can't take your license and can't stand up to cross examination in court so, they don't count as points on your driver's license so you are emailed a ticket you have to pay. In essence, a speed tax. I owe another $108.00. Third time this month!
A couple miles down the roadway, My GPS beeps and tells me that I should take an alternate route, there is congestion ahead. I'm sick of this because everyone else gets the same message and everyone is told to take the same alternate route. I'll ignore the advice today. Chances are, enough people will leave my route so that it will open up.
I use my voice activated phone to call the office and tell them I'll be a bit late, traffic is heavy.
The road ahead is jammed, it is not moving at all. I swerver to the right to make an exit but my radar screams! I look over my shoulder and see a car a hundred feet behind me. The alarm doesn't think that is enough room. I hear someone say "Go ahead" and I make my lane change. This intercar communication is pretty cool but it seems like almost every night you hear about a case of road-rage where someone got really pissed about what they heard. Maybe it isn't great for people with anger managment problems. I say thanks and catch my exit in a nick of time.
Golden Arches show up on my LCD display and I push the icon to place my drive through order. I'll swing in and pick up my coffee and muffin and my bank card will be debited. It is pretty cool how they know so much about you but I've heard that there are some slammers out there who routinely debit people as they drive by. It hasnt happened to me yet though.
I arrive at work and turn my car over to the valet. He can drive it slowly without the key within one mile of where I dropped it off. It is a nice service to use in this part of the city, things are pretty congested around here. I'm not worried, I can tell where my car is from my desktop, I can also monitor the wife and the kids!
I don't know how we did it back in the first part of the century! Only problem is that I gotta work 13 hours a day to pay for all this convenience!
Last week my wife and 2 year old were involved in a serious accident. They were hit from behind while driving 45 by a driver going 120.
Luckily they're both fine. But, as expected, this driver had no insurance. Since it seems most accidents are caused by the uninsured/underinsured, why not use this technology to keep the cars off the road?
You could put in rfid readers at the gas pumps, which would look up your VIN (embedded into your rfid, or hashed, or whatever) before allowing you to pump gas. The insurance industry would gladly fund the product. Your rates would go down when everyone is insured.
There are a few issues to work out, such as how you fill your lawnmower, but creative people could solve those with little effort.
Instead of invading our privacy, again, how about:
1. Make the driving tests more difficult, meaning less bad drivers pass them.
2. Mandate annual vehicle inspections - many States / counties don't require them and they should. You don't need a brand-new vehicle to run the kids to school, but on the other hand, your twenty-year-old falling-apart-at-the-seams POS needs to be retired.
3. Put the money into hiring more cops to actually crack down on traffic violations, like running red lights, etc.
4. As a follow-on to #2, offer federally-assisted trade-in vouchers with a sliding rule - the older your car * the poorer you are = higher trade-in amount.
5. A Federal plan to repair the trade-ins from #4 that are worth fixing, if it gets another few good years from them.
6. Subsidise clean-fuel vehicles - electric, hybrid, etc. Get rid of gasoline/petrol gorram it!
Just my $0.02 writing as a 28 year old who learned to drive last year and passed the Florida driving test first time despite not doing very well.
Damien
RFID tags are like the transponders used on many trucks. A roadside antenna sends a signal to the RFID device, and the device sends back its serial number. So yes, that roadside system will be able to identify your car, and use your ID number for things such as toll roads, security gates, or buying a burger at McDonald's. The RFID tag can also receive a message from the roadside, and display it on a device in your car: a display screen, a flashing light, or a creepy computer voice talking to you. It is not the same thing as having a GPS unit with a satellite transmitter, like OnStar. You have more potential to be tracked by using your cell phone. One more reason not to talk while driving. "Guns don't kill people, cell phone drivers do!"