Making Use Of Old LCDs?

phorm writes "Not so long ago, higher-definition LCD's used to be quite hard to come by, with laptops and other hardware tending to use old non-TFT-style LCD's which ugly bleeding colors and poor refresh. Nowadays, almost everything has a nice TFT (Thin-film-transistor) display, including laptops, PDA's, digital camera, and often even cellphones. However, not all of these devices are as dependable as they once were, and many of them end up as little more than paperweights. With TFT-LCD's by themselves still being somewhat of a pricey commodity, is there any way to salvage and use these parts for home projects? I personally have an 8" notebook display, and a 1.5" digital camera LCD which are just begging to be recycled as something useful such as a projector component, status display, or something else useful. So far I've had little luck discovering a way to get these components to work outside of the original hardware, so I was wondering if any enterprising hardware-nerds on Slashdot have had better luck than I and could offer a few pointers. Are these components doomed to end up in a landfill, or can somebody offer a way to make them useful again?"

Comments

You could build a video projector

[Clockwork Apple]

Just hit google up about "DIY Video Projection".

Re:You could build a video projector

[iamhassi]

needs to be high resolution to function well as a video projection, otherwise all you'll get is super-sized pixels.

Re:You could build a video projector

[Clockwork Apple]

He didnt say he wanted to make a consumer quality device, he just asked what he could use the LCD for. Regular TV is well below the 800x600 that the LCD probably is.

I have a DIY PJ built from a multimedia LCD and a overhead projector. Its just 640 x480 but at 5 foot wide it looks better than some rear projection screens I have seen. YMMV ;)

Re:You could build a video projector

[dj245]

Just hit google up about "DIY Video Projection".

I agree with the brother post, from what i've seen, ghetto video projectors from old laptop screens are usually a nice project, but not for extended actual use. The image is blurry, the pixels are pixelated, you need a really dark room, the list of bad things goes on and on. You can eliminate some of these problems by getting better parts for your project, but by the time all your "weak links" are strenthened, you could have bought a used 800x600 projector that gives better results and is a lot smaller.

An alternative plan is to either find a projector that fell off the back of a truck, or make sure one falls off the back of a truck, if you know what I mean.

Re:You could build a video projector

[Anonymous Coward]

the pixels are pixelated

OH NO!

Re:You could build a video projector

[scdeimos]

He didnt say he wanted to make a consumer quality device, he just asked what he could use the LCD for. Regular TV is well below the 800x600 that the LCD probably is.

Maybe Never-Twice-Same-Color (NTSC) is well below 800x600, but regular old PAL/SECAM has 625 lines with about 576 usable.

Good luck, phorm!

Re:You could build a video projector

[DJStealth]

NTSC is the equiv of 320x240 at 30fps

Re:You could build a video projector

[Anonymous Coward]

No. NTSC is 720x480@60 fields per second.. Quite the difference.

PAL is 720x576@50 fields per second.

Re:You could build a video projector

[Anonymous Coward]

640 x 480 is enough to deal with NTSC and 4:3 DVDs, and more than enough for VHS.

I wouldn't be suprised if your PJ has a better picture than some of the cheaper rear projectors out there, and you wouldn't have to deal with the convergence and geometry problems that come with CRTs.

Re:You could build a video projector

[scdeimos]

Actually, since it's an analogue signal, the "effective" horizontal resolution of television signals is limited only by the bandwidth of the luminance and chroma circuits of your receiver/TV and tends to be much higher than the popular 768x576 (PAL/SECAM, 50i) and 640x480 (NTSC, 60i) resolutions offered on capture cards.

Those resolutions were chosen to maintain the 4:3 aspect ratio used on computer monitors based on the number of "useful" lines in the signal (the rest of the lines are used for framing of the front-porch/back-porch and digital data like Teletext).

The 720x480 NTSC resolution made available on some cards makes use of some of this extra resolution, but confuses a number of players because the aspect ratio written in the .AVI/.MPEG streams aren't handled reliably (by either capture or playback software it seems, although some do it better than others).

Re:You could build a video projector

[SW6]

NTSC is the equiv of 320x240 at 30fps

If this is what most people really believe, it's no wonder that downloaded DivX files look terrible :p

NTSC has 525 vertical lines, of which about 480 are visible. Horizontal resolution depends on the bandwidth of the signal (i.e. whether you're using actual composite NTSC, S-Video, or whatever) but you're talking up to 720 pixels across.

In other words, you should really be aiming for something close to DVD Video standards or it'll look terrible. You might be able to get away with a 640x480 panel if you're only going to use NTSC sources (or don't mind PAL stuff being cropped).

Re:You could build a video projector

[Phreakiture]

NTSC is the equiv of 320x240 at 30fps

Almost right. The part you were closest on was 30fps (actually 29.97), which is close enough. The X resolution varies, but in most circumstances is somewhere around 300, so you are right there, too. The Y resolution is 480, which is double what you were saying.

The X resolution depends on what your transmission medium is. Basic, composit NTSC requires that all of the luma information be lower in frequency than the 3.58MHz Croma subcarrier. This subcarrier is going to have a content bandwidth of about 1/2 the Luma data, and therefore a physical bandwidth equal to the luma data. Half that bandwidth will be below the subcarrier, the other half above, so we can assume that the space below the 3.58 carrier is 1/3 croma, 2/3 luma.

Since luma defines the basic resolution, this puts our dot clock at a maximum of about 2.4MHz. Not a lot, granted. If we keep it simple, and divide this by the 262 lines per field (remember, this is an interlaced image) and 59.94 fields per second, we get only about 152 waves per line, or 305 pixels.

There are special cases, however, that need to be noted.

If the signal is sent such that the luma and croma data don't intermingle (S-Video), then the X resoltion can go very high indeed. In fact, there is no real limit here. A 720x480 image is not at all out of the question, with the simple understanding that the croma resolution is going to be only 150 pixels or so, because the croma data are still carried on a 3.58MHz subcarrier (although all of the bandwidth is available, not necessarily constrained by the need not to collide with the luma or audio carriers.... whether or not it is used is another matter). DTV at standard definition, digital cable, digital satellite and DVD all bring us this.

Lastly, component video takes the gloves off. Since we are no longer modulating our croma data, instead sending it as its original two components (Pb and Pr), they, too, can be run at any resolution. Fact is, they are usually run at 1/2 to 1/4 the resolution of the Luma (Y) data, but they don't necessarily need to be. The reason they usually are is that DV and MPEG don't record the croma data at full resolution.

Of course, component video has the additional advantage of being able to support other resolutions. Composite and S-video can not do this because they depend on a fixed-frequency croma carrier.

Re:You could build a video projector

[dasmegabyte]

This is about as wrong as can be.

320x240x30 fps is an exclusively computer resolution. You can tell, because though it uses the correct 4:3 ratio, it uses square pixels. NTSC pixels are slightly thinner than they are tall, which is why the MPEG1 VCD standard calls for a resolution of 352x240. 320x240 is an interpolation of this resolution some TV cards perform to prevent the "real" resolution from looking elongated.

But even 352x240 is "half resolution." The real visible resolution is twice that (704x780, the resolution of most DVD movies) plus some extra data on either side that generally doesn't get seen on your TV due to the rounding of the picture tube. This is how some capture cards acheive the resolution 720x480: they show you the edge your TV can't display, which is generally just black anyway (though some video games make use of this area...ever lose the edge of the screen on a game? This is why).

Furthermore, that's wrong too. Your TV doesn't display 720x480 images at 30 frames/s, but rather 360x240 at 60 FIELDS per second. These fields are interlaced with each other, meaning the fields...the TV scans up to show you every other bottom field, then scans down and shows you every other top field. Generally, the top and bottom fields of each frames come together to make the same picture, but occasionally, there will be motion across a field boundary. You see this as a jagged line during motion scenes when you splice it back together, like you will if you watch a TV series on a computer DVD player that doesn't de-interlace.

So, yeah. NTSC is NOT the equivalent of 320x240x30fps unless you're willing to accept throwing out 66% of the data as equivalency.

Re:You could build a video projector

[worktheweb]

Actually, the NTSC standard specifies 525 lines at 60 fields a second. A field is an interlaced half of a frame, so that's 30 frames a second. Anything above 525 that and you're just interpolating -- it may look nice, but you're not getting any more signal.

Re:You could build a video projector

[asscroft]

what was your major? I'm undecided EE/CompE/CS and trying to figure out what EE people really do in the real world. Are you one of them? Or just some hardware geek who's got an entirely unrelated education/career.

Re:You could build a video projector

[Jeckyll]

...Actually, since it's an analogue signal, the "effective" horizontal resolution of television signals is limited only by the bandwidth of the luminance and chroma circuits of your receiver/TV...

Well, to some extent, but not really, since video signals are bandwidth limited to 5MHz at source, well before they even get anywhere near your reciever/TV. Plugging the appropriate numbers into an equation to work out the maximum possible horizontal frequency in a 525-line (ie NTSC) system, gives you 317 cycles per line, which gives a max of 634 "pixels"/line.

You can throw numbers at a PAL system and get similar answers.

FWIW the horizontal resolution of 720 pixels probably has a lot more to do with the length of an active line in ITU/CCIR 601 digital video (SDI) than anything else.

Re:You could build a video projector

[Jeckyll]

Whilst NTSC does have 525 "lines", it only defines 480 of those for active picture, the rest were left delays during monitor flyback (as the beam goes from the bottom to the top of ur TV), and other uses/future expansion (such as timecode, closed caption, teletext, test signals, etc).

So unless you want to view a lot of lines of blank/data/test signals you're only really interested in the 480 active picture lines.

Re:You could build a video projector

[Rick the Red]

it's no wonder that downloaded DivX files look terrible

Those are just the samples. You have to pay for the high-resolution porn.

Great Uses

[Johnny Doughnuts]

Car mp3 Player Display
Attach to side of monitor for a small second monitor
Write a linux driver to interface directly with the lcd, and GPL it, along with specs.

I *would* imagine you could come up with a variety of uses, since you are a /. reader, but because you decided to make the front page, I hereby revoke your /. UID.

Re:Great Uses

[Johnny Doughnuts]

Oit!

I gave him some bloody suggestions!

Re:Great Uses

[Anonymous Coward]

welcome to slashdot, where the lunatics run the asylum

LCD use

[inertia187]

It'd be cool to wire up a front door peep hole up with an old CCD and LCD screen. Better yet, make it a reverse peep hole. Then you've got something.

Re:LCD use

[Monkelectric]

obscure seinfeld reference! Mod this man up!!

Re:LCD use

[Lord Kano]

Better yet, make it a reverse peep hole.

In Soviet Russia, holes peep at YOU!

LK

Re:LCD use

[Siniset]

i feel like this reference isn't really obscure, or my roommates and i watched way too many seinfeld re- runs in college. We switched our peephole around in our apartment, and yes, it is as stupid and dumb as seinfeld makes the idea seem. ahhh...college days.

Re:LCD use

[qtothemax]

An LCD reverse peephole could be pretty helpful if someone is waiting inside with a sock full of quarters...

Re:LCD use

[potat0man]

...you mean pennies.

an idea

[Anonymous Coward]

8" porn viewer in your bathroom.

Re:an idea

[Anonymous Coward]

that's a horrible idea...
I'd never get off the can!

Re:an idea

[77Punker]

I have an 8" porn producer...in my pants!!

Re:an idea

[michrech]

I have an 8" porn producer...in my pants!!

Really? Can I see? =]

Re:an idea

[JDWTopGuy]

It's really not nice to stuff a midget into your pants. Especially with the smell and all.

Come to think of it, isn't there a law against that?

Re:an idea

[Micro$will]

No law against midgets, just squirrels (in Springfield anyway). YMMV

Re:an idea

[attercoppe]

Easy there, ass bandit. By the way, how's your brother John doing these days?

Re:an idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but only if it's for the purposes of gambling.

Re:an idea

[michrech]

That would depend on who you are.. =]

Re:an idea

[attercoppe]

How he's doing depends on who I am? That's a weird thing to say...how does my identity have any bearing on his general status?

Is he still dating Michelle? (I think that was her name, it has been a while...)

Re:an idea

[michrech]

That information still depends on who you are. If you want any information, get ahold of me at mike at rechtien dot us. Once I know who you are, I'll determine wether I'll answer the questions. =]

LCDs are difficult

[Anonymous Coward]

Laptop LCDS are a pain to work with. They are just the screen themselves and the rest of the controllers and hardware is usually built into the video card or laptop motherboard and is useless outside that.

You can get controllers for many laptop screens, however they only work with specific screens. Say maybe 2-8 out of 300 can work with a particular controller. Most controllers need to have their BIOS programmed and that's usually done out of the factory for specific applications.

On top of that you need to supply your own inverter, any special or propriatory cables or connectors, a power supply, and housing.

This is doable, but expensive.

99% of the time you'd get a better, cheaper, newer LCD display somewere else then trying to build a display out of some random LCD screen.

Better off getting a retail version, or buying a kit from a place like EarthLCD.

Re:LCDs are difficult

[BrianRaker]

Actually, you are mistaken. The controller can work with multiple displays, the problem resides in how the manufacturer of the controller interfaces with the LCD. From what I remember as a laptop tech for a large US/JP laptop manufacturer, we could swap LCDs, with some luck. The main limiting factor is making sure you get your (electrical) data and timing signals from the chipset to the LCD in a reasonable fashion. You ever wonder if a laptop manufacturer uses different mainboards for different LCDs? At least with the above company, we didn't. 12.0, 13.3, 14.1, 15.0... all on the same platform. Just different LCD housings. At most, we threw a couple of DIP switches, cut identification traces on the signal cable or used a different cable.

Re:LCDs are difficult

[merlin_jim]

If the laptop itself is still functional, you may want to consider a CF-2.5IDE converter, and burn a Live Linux distribution onto a compactflash card, and using VideoLan. Then you just have a server that is fundamentally a media controller, streaming video to the laptop...

How to connect them?

[Zweistein_42]

I think more then just ideas on what to use them *for*, the original poster would like some advice on how to connect the LCDs to a computer or MP3 player etc. I might have extra laptop screens as well - but no clue how to connect their (proprietary?) laptop wire thingamagies to the 15-pin VGA port... or the "other" port on my ATI Radeon :)

Finding specifications

[timecop]

Is going to be your biggest problem. I've had some EPSON-made TFT lcds from cellphones that even epson refused to give me datasheets to - most cellphone LCDs are custom jobs for each specific manufacturer, and they will not be telling you any information about them.

You are better off trashing the screens you got and ordering some cheap LCDs from a place like http://www.mp3playerstore.com/stuff_you_need/speci al/index.html and connecting it to your car mp3/dvd/player whatever.

Re:Finding specifications

[Jahf]

No no no, he is better off selling them on Ebay since alot of times people need to replace these screens and can't get them from the manufacturer. Then take the money and buy the cheap LCDs.

Rear View

[john_sheu]

You know those kits/cars the sell with the video-display rear view camera? Well here's the perfect place to put it to work. Output the camera to the notebook display, and voila!

Re:good question

[Anonymous Coward]

what?

LCD Wiring

[Nasarius]

Found this on Google. It looks good, I think.
HD44780 LCD Wiring Guide

Re:LCD Wiring

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but this isn't the type of LCD that would come out of a notebook. This is a text LCD, usually will display any where from 1 to 4 rows and 12 to 40 columns.

Re:LCD Wiring

[cybermace5]

That is not what the submitter was looking for. The HD44780 interface is old as dirt and very well known; there are lots of programs available for practically every computer, operating system, and microcontroller in existence, in every language that each of the preceding platforms support.

The real question, interfacing TFT displays, is a wild goose chase. Without the datasheets, an appropriate controller chip, and a good understanding of how to get configurations into said chip, you're not going to get it to work. Some converter boards do exist, but they cost a couple hundred dollars and support only a few LCD panels.

Your best bet at using a given LCD panel is to find the part number, then try to locate a single-board computer that has a personality module for it. This still isn't going to be a cheap solution.

My preferred use: neat pressure-sensitive coaster.

Re:LCD Wiring

[MrLint]

perhaps a long term solution to the controller problem and the reuse problem is to have some of those EE guys work up some open specs and start advocating?

Re:LCD Wiring

[Suidae]

I dunno, there is a relatively small number of geeks designing these things, and a small number of manufacturers making them, why would they want to make it easier? If its standard, they don't get to make money reinventing it for every device.

What about display for computer?

[ruckc]

Is there some way you could go about hooking up an old LCD Screen from a lappie as a separate display for another computer? Thats what i want, to take my old laptop display and mount it on the hump in my el camino as a display for the mp3 computer i am controlly blindly with an old ibm keyboard.

Re:What about display for computer?

[cybermace5]

Honestly, I swear the following is an exact parallel to this LCD question that no one ever bother to research on their own:

Dear Ask Slashdot:
A few days ago, my uncle gave me an old John Deere tractor, which is pretty much shot except for the engine. It seems a shame to waste a perfectly good engine, so I was wondering if I could take it out and hook it into my VW Jetta somehow. I know that the engine turns when you put liquid stuff into it and run the starter, so it should be able to work in my Jetta too. I did a Google search for "engine" but didn't find what I was looking for in the first ten results. Could you tell me how to accomplish this task? I only want to spend $20 or less, and only want to use a flat-point screwdriver and a cigar box full of old rusty bolts. Thanks!

Re:What about display for computer?

[PacoTaco]

I did this once and it works great as long as you don't mind a huge cloud of noxious fumes emanating from your Jetta. It only cost me $10 too. YMMV.

Re:What about display for computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

can't help you there.
but, if you ever need to make a thermonuclear warhead out of bubblegum and a toothpick, you can give me a call.

MacGyver

Re:What about display for computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that it's particularly relevant, but I *can* make a high voltage generator out of a hand-cranked plastic salad spinner and some aluminum foil. And tape.

Re:What about display for computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

YMMV.

But you didn't tell us the mileage of your Jetta!

Re:What about display for computer?

[aminorex]

Sure. No problem.

(1) Take the engine out of the Jetta. You
probably want to remove the hood since the Deere
engine won't fit very well with the hood on.

(2) Put the deere engine into the engine compartment
of the Jetta. Points to observe here include (a)
make sure to align the PTO of the Deere with the
transmission connector. (b) If they don't match
as is likely, you can wedge a bolt or two into the
gap, so that they interlock. No hammer? I bet you
can find a rock. Just whack on it with a rock until
the bolt(s) are truly wedged. If the Deere PTO is
too big, rather than too small, rub it with a rock
until it is too small.

(3) Strap the engine firmly into place. Hook up
the fuel line and ignition electronics. Fuel line
is trivial, with some rubber tubing, but for
ignition electronics you have to match the wires.
I suggest just connecting all the red outputs to
the red input, black to black, etc. Or else read
a book. As for strapping, some old belts or a dog
chain you aren't using can do wonders.

(4) Be prepared for some mild vibration when you
start the engine. Some rubber to use for shims
can be helpful here. The upside is that if the
vibration is strong enough, even without a good
connection to the transmission, the Jetta is
light enough so that it will move around just due
to brownian motion.

(5) You're ready to do some travelin'!

I replaced the pedal assembly on my BMX bike with
a pulse-jet in about 2 hours. linky linky.
But I want to try a DK8
when I can find a cigar box full of rusty bolts.
Anyhow, I'm sure you can do the Deere in half
that time, as long as no rock-rubbing is required.

Good luck!

Re:What about display for computer?

[The Dark P]

Actually probably the best pulsejet site on the net is Bruce Simpson's. Home to the no-welds pulsejet and various other designs. http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet

Re:What about display for computer?

[tokenhillbilly]

Well, I did something similar to this with my old Hoyt Clagwell tractor engine and AMC Pacer last year. I couldn't exactly figure out how to mount the HC engine into the Pacer frame, so I decided to hook the tractor engine up to a generator and charge up some old aircraft batteries that I got out of a DC-3 that was parked out at the old aircraft graveyard.

Of course, I had to retrofit the Pacer with electric motors and a beefed up suspension to support all those batteries, but it was well worth the US$100K that I put into the project. Now I just have to park the car and run the tractor all night to charge the batteries. The noise is kind of annoying to the neighbors, but I figure that I saved a cool US$2K on the Pacer engine rebuild that I would have had to do.

Only real drawback is that the HC engine is pretty inefficient. I figure that I am getting an equivilent of 5 MPG, but I'm sure gas prices will be going down real soon now.

Re:What about display for computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Travelin?

Isn't step 5 'profit!'?!??!

Re:What about display for computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish someone would actually answer your question. I want to do the exact same thing as you.

Re:What about display for computer?

[dasmegabyte]

This would be hilarious if it were not the sort of thing I do all the time.

Basically, if the engine will fit under the hood of the car (and often times, even if it won't), somebody has mounted it thusly. The only real problem is adapting the output of the engine to the transmissions, which can be done using adapter kits from Kennedy Engines and others.

The coolest I've seen is the guy who got his '65 Beetle running with a 1.2l Mazda Wankel Rotary engine. Nice looking car, and 160 hp is pretty good for a car in the 2500 lb region.

Incidentally and to get back on topic, EIO is a surplus electronics shop and hobbiest mecca. They've got a LOT of older LCDs that they pull and sell with instructions, information and forums FULL of smart folks that know how to access older displays. Five years ago, they were the first company to retail a 6" backlit LCD for under $100. That LCD looked great in my van's media center back when I was a dilletante college student with time to burn.

Misc projects

[lukewarmfusion]

If you can get them working outside their existing devices, I've had a few projects on my to-do-list...

Front-door camera/surveillance system
Mount a TV screen in the bathroom
LCD Picture frame (search Slashdot for this one)
Mount an LCD in your PC case (front or side)

Re:Misc projects

[Bob C. Cock]

LCD Picture frame (search Slashdot for this one)

I've been wanting to build a digital picture frame for some time using a laptop LCD. There have been numerous projects like this posted before.

There was another link on Popular Science recently about this but alas, I couldn't find it again.

I have a couple of good 1024x768 LCDs from some busted Dell laptops and I've wanted to use a VIA EPIA 800 mobo to build around but I haven't been able to find any way to provide power and video to the laptop LCD from the mobo. Every project I've found for a DIY digital picture frame uses an off the shelf LCD monitor with VGA outputs for the display and a motherboard from a desktop. Looks like I have to use a laptop motherboard but I'd love to get this working with a VIA EPIA 800...drool.

Re:Misc projects

[lukewarmfusion]

I have an old Presario laptop that's got a bunch of failing parts (CD drive, sound, touchpad, etc.)... the LCD is good, so I'm doing to try and !carefully! remove the casing so i can fold the screen backwards - sorta like a tablet PC. Then I can try to remove some other parts to make it lighter, cut down on heat problems, and maybe decrease the size. Then, I'll slap it in a frame and hang it. I'm crossing my fingers that it'll work.

We were going to detach the screen altogether and go mini-ITX or something, but finding a way to get a signal into the often proprietary connections on laptop LCDs can be very difficult.

Re:Misc projects

[Anonymous Coward]

That gave me a cool idea. You could hook a smaller LCD into the front\side of your PC case and have it set up to display the temperature, fan speed, etc. if your motherboard supports it.

I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[nighty5]

until only recently when my new bsd server was updated with new hardware. The new hardware wouldnt support for the full length CGA card any longer :(

It was great for many years and ran as a samba server / console without any problems.

I'd love to find a similar style LCD screen for my box similar to the ones used in Coles supermarkets in Australia......that would be cool!

Anybody know where to source them with modern video cards?

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[Grishnakh]

Why would you want to use CGA even for that application? Even in its day, CGA was a piece of crap; it only had 4 colors (white, black, pink, and cyan) at a time when every other computer out there could display at least 16 (and the Amiga I believe could do 256). And the resolution was so horrid that using it for simple command-line stuff was painful.

A much better choice of hardware from that era would have been an IBM monochrome monitor and matching video card. I used to have one of these installed in my 486 as a second screen for running debuggers; text on the monochrome screen and graphics on the VGA monitor. The monochrome monitors couldn't do graphics (until Hercules came along) or color, but for text they were perfect. The green-on-black, and higher resolution, made characters much clearer (unlike CGA, where m's and n's looked the same) and caused much less eyestrain.

Also, the monochrome video cards tended to be fairly short.

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[Anonymous Coward]

You better believe the Amiga could do 4096 colors and stereo sound.

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[murgee]

Places such as GVision and whatnot make 9-14" LCDs. WEN USA has small CRTs and LCDs as well. Lots of places that sell POS equipment will have 'em too. And you can always check Froogle. However, don't expect to get a screen for a reasonable cost.

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[nighty5]

actually come to think of it, it was a green screen commodore monochrome, not CGA.

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[toddestan]

I think the original poster liked the fact it was a small 9" monitor. I remember seeing some tiny VGA's back in the day too.

Surely there are non-full length CGA cards out there. An EGA card should be able to drive that monitor, and I know there small EGA cards out there.

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[Anonymous Coward]

I could be anal and point out that you could change the color palette with CGA ... oh, too late.

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[nighty5]

thats exactly what I was (hoping) implying :)

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[Grishnakh]

You could, but I remember all the games in that area only using pink, blue, B & W.

The main problem with it, however, was the awful text quality; there was almost no way to distinguish m's and n's for starters. I'm glad to hear the original poster was mistaken and actually used a monochrome monitor.

Re:I had a CGA 9" POS style monitor

[bhtooefr]

I actually did find a couple games that used brown, green, and B/W. Some french Trivial Pursuit game off of an abandonware site, and Basstour (an old DOS fishing game) used it.

Difficult, but possible

[Kalewa]

Case modders have been trying to do it with laptop displays for awhile now. The general consensus is that it's more trouble/money than it's worth.

Check here for some LCD controllers and tips on how to put it together. The problem is that the controllers often cost as much or more than a cheap LCD by itself.

Re:Difficult, but possible

[coldnight]

Here's How my friend did his 'luggable'. I think it even fits in a backpack!

Re:Difficult, but possible

[Basje]

Here's a thread about doing this: GoT thread

It talks about using the vesa feature connector, found on some (older) graphics cards, and has an example. It's in dutch however.

Save the lamp!

[ValourX]

Save the screens for the CCFL lamps that illuminate them. That way when you have to replace such a tube when it wears out or breaks in your working replacement device, you will have a means of repairing it.

CCFL (cold cathod fluorescent lamps) have a life of anywhere between 15,000 and 50,000 hours and most will lose half of their brightness after roughly half of its lifespan. They're also made of thin glass and are easily broken. If you break a CCFL tube you will probably not be able to buy a replacement and even though the tube only costs a few dollars you will have to replace the entire LCD screen at a cost of hundreds of dollars (in a laptop system).

So yeah, keep them for parts... mainly the lamp.

-Jem

Re:Save the lamp!

[Lumpy]

allelectronics.com

they usually have lots of CCFL tubes in different sizes...

those parts are EASY to find if you know where and what to look for.

Re:Save the lamp!

[SavannahLion]

Well.... I suppose you could do that, but are all CCFL lamps the same?

I honestly don't know the answer since I don't have any LCD screens just sitting around the house. But keeping an old LCD for the CCFL sounds pack ratting. It's like keeping that box of mysterious screws that you just keep adding to, but never actually using. You've got a pile of screws in that box, but not one of them is ever actually useful when the time comes that you actually need to use one.

Re:Save the lamp!

[darkith]

They're "close enuf", so long as they're shorter and no thicker.

I replaced two CCFL tubes in laptop displays that had gone bad. (dim, pinkish hues).

The selection of tubes available wasn't perfect (the correct ones were out of stock), so one was about .5 in short, the other .75 in short....but they worked fine. Minor dark spot in the corner, but a free laptop is a free laptop. One is now a dandy in-car mp3 system with Wifi sync... (ok, technically I didn't need the LCD for that...but it helps)

Re:Save the lamp!

[Anonymous Coward]

Screw the lamp, Save the lamp's driver...You can pull some pretty decent sparks out of those puppys but they hurt :(. Yeah I know I'm off topic. ^_^
In all seriousness though, I tried doing exactly what you said a few years back and unless you have some way to drive the lcd (the board it came with generally) you are sol. But if you have it sometimes you can find nifty things, like where you can input rgb by soldering some wires onto a chip.

Re:Save the lamp!

[Myself]

Well, the important voltage of such a lamp is mostly determined by its length, so drop-in replacement should be 'close enough' for most applications. Don't save the whole screen for the lamp, just find a good sturdy box and some soft padding to store them in. The lamps have mercury in them and should be returned for recycling if you give up your packrat habit, or when one fails.

That pile of miscellaneous screws has saved my ass more times than I can count. Sometimes I need a dozen screws but only have one of the right kind, but being able to take that one to the hardware store makes it worth it.

Looking for an LCD myself

[harleyb]

I've been trying to find a rather small LCD for about a year for a project: Mini-ITX computer in an ancient laptop case. I can't find anything smaller than 13", except for car displays, which are like 5" and $300. Anyone have any ideas? I need something around 8-11 inches including the internal frame of the panel, with VGA or even S-video input.

Re:Looking for an LCD myself

[zentigger]

9" VGA LCD used to be pretty common on e-bay.

Re:Looking for an LCD myself

[matthew.coulson]

Check out the Lilliput range. They do a fantastic 8" 4:3 LCD (with VGA/RCA/S-Video inputs) which includes a touchscreen. Bit pricey - was 220 for me, but incredibly easy to use. 640x480 native res, interpolates up to 1024x768, built in speaker.

Re:Looking for an LCD myself

[Eccentrica Galumbits]

I picked up a 5" LCD display for a PS/1 in a second hand games shop for 20quid (They're designed to let you use your console on the move, hmm...). This one had a composite video connector, but you usually have to hack apart the console connector to connect it to anything other than the intended console. If your lucky it will take RGB as well.

Not a great picture, but it looks okay. I use it for all sorts

Pictures.

[qualico]

I think a great use would be to have a picture frame on a wall with a recycled LCD screen rotating pictures like WebShots.

Trouble is its *not* going to be a simple matter to interface the unit with electronics unless your an e-wizard.

An older laptop should be no trouble.

Here is a great link if your a Linux lover like me.
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/computers/articl e/0,1 2543,600338,00.html

Re:Pictures.

[qualico]

Ooooops.
Not sure why Plain Text posting inserts a space where the html wraps in Slashdot's Comment box.
Here is that link again in case you didn't remove the space that was inserted.

Popular Science Article on DIY LCD Photo Frame, Linux Type

Re:Pictures.

[mopslik]

Looks like your link got monkied up with that space in there. Here's a working one:

Display Your Digital Wonderland

Re:Pictures.

[qualico]

lol!

Thanks for fixing the link.

Looks like are minds are linked as well. :->
Thats uncanny timing.

Re:Pictures.

[shepd]

Beware! WebShots may hose your TCP/IP stack (if it doesn't make backups -- it replaces it) and allows remote code execution! It also may be uninstallable.

WebShots installs the NewDotNet program...

The new.net software downloads and silently executes arbitrary code from its controlling server, as an update feature.

Stay the hell away from anything that includes NewDotNet. It's a HORRID little piece of software and at my former job 50% of the service calls were related to WebShots downloads (against policy, but *you* try to make Win95 usable and locked tight without DeepFreeze or similar products) and malfunctioning network stacks (in that case it seemed to hose Novell Netware Client pretty good, which made no sense, but hey, this *is* Win95 here). NewDotNet was, of course, the real reason why. Not to mention that it hogs resources even worse than Internet Explorer.

In other words, use it at your own risk!

Re:Pictures.

[qualico]

Ya I here ya bro.

I was only using WebShots as an example of rotating pictures.

I can't stand that software when clients install it on my machines.
NewDotNet is a disease!

WebShots BAD, Slashdot GOOD.

Re:Pictures.

[ffsnjb]

I've fired people for installing WebShots at my old job. It is absolutely banned from my company machines. I should blackhole the domain at my dns servers, but that would take 30 seconds away from reading slashdot, and we wouldn't want that, right?

Old laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Given that an old laptop is way cheaper than a new lcd monitor (well ok its also smaller) it seems logical to use it as an X terminal.

My old laptop is evolving this way. The terminal sits in the basement and the laptop sits by my chair. More and more of the software I use runs on the server only. I rsync my working directory onto usb memory and carry that back and forth to work.

The local surplus place has piles of old Thinkpads for almost free.

Immediate ATTN required!

[dj245]

Please excuse this communication but I am in desperate need of your help. I have in my possession 419 slightly used LCD monitors that are just languishing away in my basement. Due to my impending bankrupcy, these monitors will soon be seized and sold at auction! I would do anything to spare myself the shame of having my assets taken from me and sold for a pittance; even give these 419 LCD monitors away! Therefore, I am giving these LCD monitors away. However, as I am being having bankrupcy levied upon me as we speak here now, I need a small sum to pay for the shipping of such a large amount of computer hardware.

Please reply most immediately so the shipping details can be worked out, I can accept western union payments at this time, but not paypal as the bankrupcy people will find out! I await your reply so these sad little orphaned LCD monitors can be given new life.

Re:Immediate ATTN required!

[Deraj DeZine]

Sincerely,

Mr. Darl McBride
Shifty Law-Abusing Moron, Recently Named Nigerian Prince

Re:Immediate ATTN required!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does the wording of the above remind me of the Nigerian 419 scam e-mail I get?

Re:Immediate ATTN required!

[dj245]

Why does the wording of the above remind me of the Nigerian 419 scam e-mail I get?

Becuase its a parody you ignorant clod! Thats why its funny!

Re:Immediate ATTN required!

[Anonymous Coward]

hey im intrested in some of thiese pls contact me at oompaloompa@hotmail.com

thx

Re:Immediate ATTN required!

[dark_fishbowl]

I'll take at least 2.

Re:Immediate ATTN required!

[downrodeo]

mmm mmm mmm. gotta love the good old western union scam. i love seeing those on ebay. ranks right up there with those nice nigerian "rich ppl" that love me so much that they even offered to take some money in exchange for millions of dollars. It is wonderful knowing that this slashdotter is following in their footsteps

Re:Immediate ATTN required!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I thought you said to not tell any one about our top secret deal so the bankrupcy people won't find out! And here I find you announcing it on Slashdot... I'm beginning to wonder about this whole deal. Please email me back so that we can discuss this further.

Your dear friend,
-Darl M.

Re:Immediate ATTN required!

[GamerGeek]

The number of the modding shall be three, four shall the number of the modding not be, neither shall it be 2...

Blasphmer! In the words of our lord, who is soo soooo great!
"5 is just out"
Mod this man down!

Listen, this old system of yours could be on fire and I couldn't even turn on the kitchen tap without filling out a 27b/6... Bloody paperwork.

Re:mm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what I'm talking about?

bingo.

Recycle

[ratsnapple tea]

Your old LCD makes a great surface to cut coke into lines with a credit card. Much better than a mirror, since you don't have to stare at your own face as you snort.

Re:Recycle

[stuart1310]

You could take that idea one step further. Instead of staring at nothing while you're snorting, you could use the old LCD to show pictures of coke addicts more attractive than you. Robert Downey Jr., Uma Thurman, any other suggestions?

Re:Recycle

[benzapp]

The reason people use mirrors is so you can see every last grain of powder.

When you are spending large sums of money on drugs, every little bit counts.

ahh cocaine...

Re:Recycle

[flewp]

Yeah, you could get one of those desktop stripper thingies, and then snort lines off a stripper's tits without having to goto the strip club!

Re:Recycle

[Anonymous Coward]

trust me, the smooth black surface of an lcd works fine... ahh cocaine indeed

Re:Recycle

[lexiconbt]

finally a comment that actually answers the question...

'nothing you noob' is not very helpful. but this is... yea!

Re:Recycle

[thadeusg]

no...actually, it's so the "grains" dont stick into any small imperfections in the line-making-surface, rendering them useless (unless you're the gum rubbing type.)

glass is the best for this of course...and mirrors are the most readily available, flat, table/lap sized piece of glass around..it has little if nothing to do with seeing every last bit of coke/ice/heroin..

besides, if you're that serious about wasting the shit you should be banging it anyway...snorting anything is a horrible, horrible waste of your money; any real drug addict will tell you this...

Re:Recycle

[cdrudge]

besides, if you're that serious about wasting the shit you should be banging it anyway

As a non-drug user, how exactly does one have sex with coke? Or is there another definition for banging that proves how little I know?

Re:Recycle

[illumin8]

As a non-drug user, how exactly does one have sex with coke? Or is there another definition for banging that proves how little I know?

In this context "banging" means "to inject intravenously". It's just street slang for using needles.

As far as the grandparent post is concerned:

There is a good reason why most people that do drugs don't use needles. If you want to get immediately addicted and not be able to quit, go right ahead. Other methods have a much lower absorbtion rate, so you won't get nearly as messed up. There is also something about using needles that tends to increase the addiction factor for most people. I know because I've had a few friends that did drugs intravenously and they were totally unable to quit. We used to have this saying that we stole from a Pringle's commercial, and it seemed to apply really well:

"Once you pop, you just can't stop."

As always, YMMV, but I highly recommend staying away from needles. Better yet, just stay away from drugs period.

Re:Recycle

[thadeusg]

You get the cookie.

I agree totally, needles bad. Sniffing/Injecting drugs bad. Smoking pot and drinking beer good. Everything else bad. BAD.

Although I tend to disagree on the addiction factor you bring up...most people who I know who are/were into the needle thing didn't start there, just "graduated" to it after already having a severe addiction...."bang for your buck" type of thing..pun intended. I've also noticed that most freebasers are on par addiction-wise as needle users..strictly talking about coke and ice here, I have yet to meet someone who claims to have freebased heroin. (Like I said, horrible waste of money)

But, like I said before: BAD BAD BAD.

BAD.

Re:Recycle

[illumin8]

Sniffing/Injecting drugs bad. Smoking pot and drinking beer good.

That's pretty much my philosophy. I don't really count weed or beer as drugs simply because they are made from plants and aren't over-processed. Other drugs like coke, heroin, and meth, even though they're derived from plants originally (coca, opium, and mau huang, respectively) are over-processed to the point where there are really only a few chemicals left.

I agree with you on the point that most people I know that use needles were already pretty messed up and just "graduated" to it. I think there are some statistics out there that show that intraveneous drug users are less likely to quit or more likely to relapse.

Re:Recycle

[thadeusg]

I don't count either as drugs simply because people don't rob/kill/etc.. to get the money to buy them. I honestly couldn't care less what chemicals are in them; it's the social impact that I look at. People don't make a living smoking pot or drinking beer unlike meth and heroin addicts..know what I mean?

I believe those statistics..although I'm not sure if it's the purity/concentration of the drug that theyre getting, or the whole ritualistic atmosphere that surrounds drug use of that type that keeps them comming back. Probably a bit of both.

To put what I mean into different words..it's not so much being high that I miss when I don't have any weed, it's cleaning and breaking up the buds, packing my favourite bong (or making a new one!), filling the fucker with ice, and sitting down with a couple of my friends and chillen out that I miss the most..the whole ritual...if you can dig.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go pick up my pay check so I can go buy a carton of camel wide lights, a couple 40s of king cobra and a quarter. ;)

(I got my priorities, haha.)

POLL

[Deraj DeZine]

Should Ask Slashdot be replaced with a form that queries Google? There are a lot of web pages out there written by morons, but Google appears to do a decent job of sorting out the morons and it has the advantage of not squelching legitimate complaints against popular OSS/GNU/etc. icons.

Re:POLL

[NanoGator]

"Should Ask Slashdot be replaced with a form that queries Google?"

No.

Seriously, there's nothing wrong in posting this question to a group of geeks like us. Interesting results can develop, and discussion is usually a good thing. Perhaps people who haven't considered recycling LCDs will be inspired, you never know.

Quitcherbitchen.

Re:POLL

[Deraj DeZine]

Yeah, I wasn't entirely serious with that post. Slashdot, if nothing else, at least groups various "conversations" together for easy reading in a somewhat-coherent fashion. Although, if the mods aren't interested in a conversation it magically becomes off-topic, but that's a side issue if you give off-topic posts a modifier or something.

Re:POLL

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the nice thing about the point system here, you can read at whatever level you want. I've been reading at -1 for at least a year and wouldn't have it any other way...the offtopic posts are often some of the most interesting and the trolls are usually a lot funnier than half the shit that gets modded "Funny"

Re:POLL

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

In other words, Slashdot IS your AI interface to google!

Re:POLL

[Deraj DeZine]

YES! I agree completely with "trolls" being funny. My all-time favorite post to Slashdot that was modded a troll instead of +Infinity, HI-LARIOUS.

Re:POLL

[Jade E. 2]

Should Ask Slashdot be replaced with a form that queries Google?

I don't know, maybe you should query Google about that.

Re:POLL

[the real darkskye]

It looks like a natural language query to me, maybe asking jeeves would be better than google for this one.

-1, Troll for proposing the idea that ask.com is better than anything ;)

Re:POLL

[kabocox]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF -8&q=+Should+Ask+Slashdot+be+replaced+with+a+form+ that+queries+Google%3F&btnG=Google+Search

Re:POLL

[oregonnerd]

I did (query Google, that is). Never expected an obscene reply.

Link...

[jg_elliott]

This site has the answer to connecting a laptop monitor to your pc.
http://www.eio.com/lcdconnect.htm
google cache: href=http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:Ily0Qs g_-twJ:www.eio.com/lcdconnect.htm+site:eio.com+lcd connect&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

It's not been updated in a while, but the summary goes: You need to buy a controller, the one that came with the device won't do. They cost more than an lcd screen itself, so unless you're desperate to recycle, you might as well buy.
As for ideas what to do; I always thought i'd be cool to have a little display of system statistics cpu/ram/disk usage, maybe any new emails that have arrived - basically most of the features that superkaramba gives you, except you'd be able to see it when running full screen apps.

Re:Link...

[MrAngryForNoReason]

I always thought i'd be cool to have a little display of system statistics cpu/ram/disk usage, maybe any new emails that have arrived

You mean something like these.

Good Luck.

[Rolo Tomasi]

Driving LCDs without inbuilt controllers (i.e. the ones you find in laptops and other digital appliances) is non-trivial. The problem is, you need some kind of controller, and then you also need to drive that controller (preferably over a CPU bus or some other fast connection). Epson makes LCD controllers. You'd have to design a PCB and then solder an SMD chip with hundreds of tiny leads (or even a BGA chip). The other alternative would be to brew your own controller with an FPGA, like this guy did (text is in German). He built a controller for an old 640x480 laptop TFT.

Basically, without some rather advanced electronics skills, you're SOL.

Oh, and don't just hook up a display's power without providing the proper clock signals ... the liquid crystals will decompose through electrolysis.

Re:Good Luck.

[spacey]

the liquid crystals will decompose through electrolysis

So he should work on hair removal while he's on this project?

-Peter

Re:Good Luck.

[hansmoor]

Try translating that page out of German using google and then decide whether it's intelligible enough to be worth linking to.

Re:Good Luck.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because of course *nobody* reading slashdot might actually know German well enough to find it useful without a Google mangling...

old pda screens are great....

[Lumpy]

I have bought 3 phillips pronto remotes off ebay over the past 2 months for dirt ($8.00 - $10.00 dirt) because they had smashed lcd's....

fortunately the phillips PDA's we have here at work that were retired and left for dead in the back room had the SAME lcd.

3 worthless PDA's equals 3 TS2000 Pronto remotes for dirt.

the problem lies in finding data on the LCD and or an application.. eio.com has lots of color LCD's for dirt that are pretty un-useable as they are custom and no information will be released on them.

Re:old pda screens are great....

[SubtleNuance]

which PDAs are those exactly?

Blame the industry

[ajlitt]

There's no real standard for LCD modules, even the PC variety. When designing an LCD into a system, one first needs the appropriate data sheet, which is usually hard to come by (requiring a phone call to a MFR rep or such) and ill-written. Then, you need to provide the appropriate voltage rails, many of which fall outside of the range of a normal PC supply (bias, contrast voltages). And that's not to mention the (often) high voltage backlight!

Once you've sorted all of that out and your LCD powers up, you will need to interface your video signal. There are not only many different physical connector schemes used in panels, but many pinouts and electrical / timing methods. Not to mention that the panel takes a serial or framed digital signal, while your PC probably emits an analog one (except DVI-D)

Once your panel is lashed up to a host, you would need to convince your OS to drive the panel with a VERY specific set of timings. Remember, this panel is a purely digital device and isn't tolerant of sloppy video or sync signals like the average glass boob is. And of course forget about baseband TV video unless you're prepared to do some scan conversion.

You could make it work. I occasionally have to spec and implement LCDs for projects at work. It's not easy to do even when you have a device designed to drive an LCD. Hell, some of the VIA Mini-ITX boards come with a LVD video output port for driving some panels. But still, you can see that there is more value in that flat panel monitor than just the LCD.

Re:Blame the industry

[Clod9]

> there is more value in that flat panel monitor than just the LCD

I wonder is that why these things are so expensive in the first place?
If there was a *gasp* standard for the controllers, timing, plug connectors, etc. then the price would probably come down considerably.
Not that any existing manufacturer particularly wants that to happen...

Re:Blame the industry

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenLDI? *gasp* LVDS? *gasp* RSDS? *gasp*
There's lots of standards.

Re:Why don't you build a...

[Little Grey]

how does your suggestion have anything to do with recycling old LCDs? you clod

Cheap tvs

[panxerox]

If you want a status screen cheap get a 2nd old vid card with tv out and get a cheap minitv resolution sucks but its ok for status / temp / chat screens.

Datasheets galore

[kryoptic]

This site http://www.eio.com/datashet.htm has a bunch of datasheets for various LCD screens. From what I can gather it's terribly difficult to make use of an old LCD screen. They're not directly compatible with standard vga. You must have a controller.

Re:Datasheets galore

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a matter if their compatable or not.

It's that they are just the screens and the light, and that's it.

Imagine yanking a CRT tube out of a big screen TV, then throw the rest of the TV away.

How do you attatch that to your computer?

Or pull a chevy V8 out of a truck and the front seat out of a honda. Put them together on your driveway and then ask, How do I make this seat work with the motor?

Here's a link, try not to kill yourself

[FigWig]

Linky linky

Re:Here's a link, try not to kill yourself

[aminorex]

> Linky linky

Isn't that the teletubbie that Falwell was so het up
about?

Oh no, it was Kinky kinky....

maybe.

Re:Here's a link, try not to kill yourself

[Dun Malg]

Sheesh! This guy prefers GAS POWERED soldering irons? Then again, he's clearly a dilettante at this stuff, as he calls the neutral side of an AC supply "negative". Oh yeah, the bastard couldn't spell "rivet" to save his life!

Yeah but...

[MrChuck]

I have a bunch of PowerBook 170's and 180's...

Lovely screens...

And I *know* /. is just rife with old tyme hackers - folks with C in the heart and solder burns on their fingers (it's just those rogue 3 or 4 who actually use *windows* (spit, cough, hork)).

So who here HASN'T etched a circuit board (analog, digital, no matter)? Anyone? - see. Nobody. All l33t h@x0rs.

So fess up, how do I take apart my Powerbook 180 and get it to work with a Radeon card so I can stuff it into my Kaypro "Portable" case and bring it to Usenix with a dual Athlon64 mobo inside (the power supply in that box is HUGE).

Re:Yeah but...

[777v777]

The 180 had a great 16 shades of greyish blue!!!

Re:Yeah but...

[Quobobo]

You spoiled kid. My Powerbook 170 has festive white, and festive black!

Re:Yeah but...

[Anonymous Coward]

And I *know* /. is just rife with old tyme hackers - folks with C in the heart and solder burns on their fingers (it's just those rogue 3 or 4 who actually use *windows* (spit, cough, hork)).

So who here HASN'T etched a circuit board (analog, digital, no matter)? Anyone? - see. Nobody. All l33t h@x0rs.

L33T H4X0RS know how to use a soldering iron without burning their fingers. They also don't etch their own boards.... They send their 4-layer designs to a small-volume, ultra-cheap board house to get the real thing.

Re:Yeah but...

[Aussie]

L33T H4X0RS know how to use a soldering iron without burning their fingers.

Sounds like you haven't used a soldering iron very much. Anyway, doesn't hurt after several years of
burns and calluses.

Re:Yeah but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Since we're pretending to be l33t and "in the know", real h4x0rs build their own CNC laser board prototyping machines. And make their own damn ICs.

Re:Yeah but...

[Halfbaked Plan]

I've built tons of prototypes and breadboards. Haven't burned myself with a soldering iron in decades. If you're burning yourself with the soldering iron, maybe you're cut out to be an engineer, not a technician. Let's see how badly you can damage the breadboard Friday night at 9 PM (after everybody else has gone home) by innocently trying to move two wires...

Re:Yeah but...

[g-san]

I wouldn't trust a programmer with a screwdriver much less a soldering iron. Must be where the burns came from!

Re:Yeah but...

[macgyvr64]

And I *know* /. is just rife with old tyme hackers - folks with C in the heart and solder burns on their fingers

That was good, I like that :-P

Re:Yeah but...

[TheLink]

Well, like a chef said- either you get better at cutting stuff, or you get used to cutting yourself (and losing fair amounts of blood).

Perhaps there's a chance your soldering iron is badly designed? Picking a better designed model may reduce the odds of burning yourself.

Re:Yeah but...

[3terrabyte]

What timing!

Cold Heat Soldering Tool

Re:Yeah but...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you look at it from an angle, eight of the shades go from blue to orange.

I guess that makes it a 24-color display.

Re:Yeah but...

[illumin8]

I have a bunch of PowerBook 170's and 180's...

Turn them into digital picture frames. This gentleman turned his PowerBook 100 into a Digital Picture Frame for relatively little cost. If I had a leftover PowerBook that would be one of my first projects.

Re:Yeah but...

[MrChuck]

Oh sure, but it requires a working POWERBOOK under it. We're talking LCD only here.

(re solder burns: there's the occasional touch hot component - there's also been the "sit on the side of a stage with a part held against my thigh with a foot" kinda emergency work.
Burns from the iron? Never. er, 'warmth' from the thing BEING soldered - yeah.

Engineers get to sit in at a clean bench doing work that's been reviewed in meetings by committees.

Real hackers get to solder in a circuit after cutting open the cable casing to get to the wires we need :)

/me recalls yelling at the tech to bring a camera crane down 2 feet because I wouldn't solder UP over my head. He whined about resetting stepper motor counters and finally did it.

But the windows users won't know what we're talking about, so I'll quit.

Re:Yeah but...

[ansible]

So who here HASN'T etched a circuit board (analog, digital, no matter)?

I sure haven't. Built a few by hand, but mostly we send 'em out. Easier and quicker that way, especially to get them populated.

I can solder leads down to 0.5mm or so, but it requires no caffine for the previous few days. And it takes a long time, cause I don't have one of those fancy schmancy IC rework stations.

But to be slightly on-topic, working with random LCDs w/o manufacturer support is a pain. There's a bazillion different IC driver chips out there. Need docos and a lot of quiet time to read them.

The original question-asker would be better off if he can re-use the original units intact. Better use of his time to write some DOS code for an old laptop than try to interface a controller to an LCD. Also, it is too easy to screw up, let out the magic smoke, and then you're done.

Re:Yeah but...

[TheLink]

Seems the way that works is by the bit actually being two different electrodes. You put solder between the electrodes, it shorts, heats up and melts.

Trouble is- if the two electrodes of the bit touch different parts of a electronic circuit bad things could happen.

Could be useful, but I'd stick to my much cheaper soldering iron which just has heat at the tip minus the current.

Re:good question

[Anonymous Coward]

I dropped a $1500 laptop before, screen was completely ruined. Called up all the repair shops in town, was told the same thing by each of them:

"Probably cheaper to get another laptop"..

No more laptops for me, I've been happy ever since.

Everyone has nice TFTs?

[Vexorg_q]

I dont think so, I know that I certinaly dont have a nice TFT.

My compaq presario 1600 laptop has a nice, slow, retro passive matrix display, if you're looking for something to do with your old tfts, give them to me ;)

If all components are there...

[KalvinB]

build a projector. $150 for a decent overhead projector and that's pretty much all you need. You just remove the backlighting from the panel and lay it on top of the projector.

Instead of paying $300 or more per bulb you only pay about $30. I set myself up a projector using the LCD screen from an old VictorMaxx Stuntmaster and at 10 feet it projected a 22" image from a 1.5" LCD panel. I had the advantage that the VictorMaxx takes a standard RCA input. By default it just has a funky non standard connector.

If I could find a decent LCD panel I'd make a permanent setup. The LCD panel I used had a resolution of about 80x60. Portable gaming console screens are 320x240 which isn't too terrible.

Ben

Re:If all components are there...

[svallarian]

Interesting use of that stuntmaster LCD. Does it have two LCD's one for each eye? or what that just a mirror trick?

Do you have a link on how to create such a setup? I've got a couple of those victormaxxes laying around somewhere...

Steven V.

Neverending Question

[cybermace5]

Whenever I see someone go "Is there any way to take an LCD screen..." I instantly wince, because there it is again, the question that just won't DIE. It's a question that's been in existence since the first laptop computer died. If you've been anywhere on the internet, especially in the electronics Usenet groups, you've seen n00bs ask this question hundreds, if not thousands, of times. I think that every laptop should come with a label stating "No, without large investments of time, money, and unobtainable specifications, you cannot use this display apart from the laptop."

I wish there was a Snopes for Engineers, where people could ask their questions that have already been answered a hundred times, and not waste everyone's time because they couldn't do a few simple searches and find the answer (which is NO) on their own.

Re:Neverending Question

[NanoGator]

"I wish there was a Snopes for Engineers, where people could ask their questions that have already been answered a hundred times, and not waste everyone's time because they couldn't do a few simple searches and find the answer (which is NO) on their own."

Can you honestly blame people for not wanting to just throw out a $2,000 hunk of plastic? Lighten up, man.

It's called a DVI port

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called a DVI port (that other thingy) and you can't directly connect any LCD matrix to either of those things, unfortunetaly. Their totally the wrong meal deal. Those are just for sending a signal to the LCD's image processors.

Garbage!

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep your working environment clean and fresh-looking by getting rid of garbage like your leftover LCDs. You'll feel better at home and that's worth many hundreds of home-made projects.

3" porn viewer in your bathroom

[Anonymous Coward]

Mobile porn without having to mess around with LCD screens.

Re:3" porn viewer in your bathroom

[ottawanker]

Mobile porn like this guy?

Yes it is possible but...

[dicepackage]

In order to do this you need an LCD controller for your computer which can be very expensive. It is around $ 400 dollars. You also need to do a lot of sodering and need to be proficient with a multimeter. In other words there is no easy or cheap way to take the LCD screen from a laptop and use it for your desktop computer.

Lightbox for photography

[pie314]

I've successfully taken out the backlight panel from a few LCDs to use as lightbox for photograph transparencies. It's a nice, uniformly illuminated white panel that runs off (usually) 5Volts or so, and gives a good light for viewing photograph slides.

Re:Lightbox for photography

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, as long as basic precautions are taken: those CCFL lamps are fragile, and the high voltage supply can bite you real bad!

Re:Lightbox for photography

[benchbri]

Just out of curiosity, nobody would know the power required do this, would they?

I've got a screen out of an old 5xx PowerBook, and my handy-dandy multimeter says it takes 30v DC @ 13ma. I think I need to change the battery in that thing.

Re:Lightbox for photography

[pie314]

As far as I remember, I used an old mobile phone charger for at least one backlight screen. I think it was rated at 7Volts, 300mA maximum.

Re:Lightbox for photography

[phorm]

And you can pull a nice 5/12V off a standard PC power cable. I have a nice little mp3 player that I was gifted from overseas that had a 220V charger. The output was 5V/600ma though, worked nicely off the red lead of my PSU.

E-Bay it

[DigiShaman]

Seriously! I once bought a busted laptop from someone for $200 (I needed spare parts). But I didn't need the LCD. So I sold it on E-bay and got $320 for the screen alone!

Yes, those LCDs are quite profitable if you know were to look.

Here's a page with information

[Profane MuthaFucka]

It's got information on where to get panels, and where to get controllers. You might be able to match your panel to something in the list, and even though you can't use the controller in the laptop, maybe you can find a controller that would work from one of the manufacturers listed

http://www.geocities.com/p9019/lcdpanel

Build your own controller

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a PCI or ISA pinboard and just connect one of the leads to each of the terminals and then you can write your own driver for that LCD without worrying about how to talk to the controller. Sounds easier than it is though. However it wouldn't be as difficult for an older 1bit LCD with larger leads, good luck finding a digital prototyping card you can afford ;)

Re:Build your own controller

[cybermace5]

Thank you so much for my biggest laugh of the day!

Re:Build your own controller

[fishermonger]

Get a PCI or ISA pinboard and just connect one ...

Sheesh, why mislead the poor guy? It's much easier: soldeir all the odd leads, 1,3,5 etc to a a thicker black wire, then soldier the even numbered leads to a thick red wire. Next open the power supply box, find one wire colored GREEN-YELLOW, then ....

Re:Build your own controller

[Jack Schitt]

I built a PCI pinboard out of some cardboard, several paperclips, and some ductape

I don't see why our friend shouldn't be able to do the same

this is what I do with old CRTs

[hellmarch]

http://elwood.longlines.com/~soucada/fireball/XPlo de.avi i made this today

Re:this is what I do with old CRTs

[hellmarch]

stupid link... here is an actual one Click here for video

Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[billstewart]

Trying to salvage just the screen may be difficult. But often there's more of the original machine left than that, and you can find ways to use it efficiently. For instance, that 486-66 laptop is now too slow and lame to run any games other than D00m or Nethack, and the 500MB disk doesn't look so huge any more, and maybe the case is cracked and the keyboard doesn't work, but you may still be able to run enough Debian on it to get X to work so you can have it as an extra display device. If you want to hide most of the mechanism, you may be able to separate the display part of the case and just run longer wires to the base part, leaving the electronics intact. And maybe it can double as a print server as well.

Similarly, if you've got a laptop that's too lame for that, you might still be able to run Windows 3.1 and hyperterm on it, so you've got a scrolling ASCII display for data you feed it on the RS232 port, or maybe VNC running at 112 kbps. It's not your hot-stuff gamez box, but it's enough to display status information, and the great thing about a 386/25 is that you can be Entirely Fearless about performaing dangerous operations on it because there's really no downside risk :-)

PDAs can often run communications programs as well, so you can use the RS232 port to feed them ASCII streams to display. That Palm3 stand can sit neatly on top of your main PC, showing you whatever information you think is interesting in whatever font size you can read. Maybe it's just a clock and weather forecast and network intrusion detection display ("It's 3:32pm, 37 degrees outside, pollen count high, Virus of the Day is Netsky.U".)

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[selfabuse]

I just did something along those lines. I had an old thinkpad, and a couple old k6-2 machines, tossed debian and cinelerra on them, and had myself a 6 machine renderfarm out of things I was about to throw in the dumpster. That doesn't get you using the LCD at all, but could get you using a machine you'd trash otherwise.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[dasunt]

The parent poster wrote:

...that 486-66 laptop is now too slow and lame to run any games other than D00m or Nethack...

What more do you need? ;)

Btw, 486-586 era laptops make kick-ass x86 firewalls. Energy consumption is a lot better then a desktop, and they tend to be compact, with a built-in keyboard and video. 2 PCMCIA/Cardbus NICs and you're set.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[TheLink]

Not only that, some still have a working built-in 2 hour+ UPS :).

Pentium M = 6+ hour UPS. Turn off screen+backlight and woohoo.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[Anonymous Coward]

Got a modem? Turn it into a answering maching.

It can actually be quite useful. I had (until the hard-drive gave out and I was too lazy to reinstall) a box set up as a voicemail system, which would allow you to leave a message in someone's box. Every day right before anyone got home, it would send out e-mails to everyone who had messages with a list of who had called (caller ID & phone number) for them. You could then log into the intranet site and be given a list of calls and associated audio recordings of the messages. You could download & listen to them then delete them.

Fairly simple to do, and it was quite fun :)

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[RogerWilco]

Bah, I'm trying to do that, but finding a nic that works, and a distro that can use it and install over it has not succeded yet.
I have this nice tulip 5/133 *only a floppy, and 2 times pcmcia, not even plip*, I have a smc8016 (not supported under linux) a dynalink l10bc (should be supported). The device only has 32Mb ram so to install over ftp is going to be a chalenge once I get it working...

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[builderbob_nz]

("It's 3:32pm, 37 degrees outside, pollen count high, Virus of the Day is Netsky.U".)

In my job, with the number of viruses I have to remove from Windows machines, I can't decide if that last piece of information would be informative or just repeating what I just found out...

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[Anonymous Coward]

Why just ASCII? I want my status displays handling Unicode, dammit.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[Etyenne]

Btw, 486-586 era laptops make kick-ass x86 firewalls. Energy consumption is a lot better then a desktop, and they tend to be compact, with a built-in keyboard and video. 2 PCMCIA/Cardbus NICs and you're set.

I don't think any 486 (or even Pentium < II) laptop ever came equipped with CardBus slot.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[Anonymous Coward]

Just use floppyfw. I did just that for a couple of years using an old COMPAQ LTE 5150 and two PCMCIA cards. Just takes a single floppy and I think now it supports out of the box PCMCIA without modifications.

FloppyFW

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[Anonymous Coward]

Had a Pentium 133 Laptop (Tecra 730CDT) that had Cardbus.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[KlomDark]

Have a Gateway 2000 P75 laptop with PCMCIA slots.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[Etyenne]

Have a Gateway 2000 P75 laptop with PCMCIA slots.

Yes, but is it CardBus (32 bits) ?

PCMCIA != CardBus

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[ansible]

Feh. Lot of time with old (4-5 years) battery packs, you're lucky to get half an hour out of them.

If it's running a crit network function, plug it into a real UPS. Save yourself some trouble that way.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[TheLink]

Buying a new battery is often possible.

And if you're running a crit network function you won't be running it on a notebook pc. They tend to be less reliable - maybe that's because they usually are lugged around and they'd be reliable in a rackmount with good cooling.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[Wolfrider]

--I have a Toshiba Tecra P166 laptop that has Cardbus/PCMCIA switchable in the BIOS. When I bought it 2ndhand it was set to PCMCIA. A quick BIOS change and a reinstall of W98SE, and now it runs Cardbus.

--You can really notice the speed difference; I have an SMC Ethernet PCCard that's compatible with both settings, and it runs noticeably better under 32-bit mode.

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[bot24]

Actually, some would make terrible firewalls. I have a 586 that will burn a hole right through the case if you put it into a cramped space for too long. If I got a network card for that Jornada though...

Re:Whole machine as Linux + X or ASCII terminal

[Suidae]

You don't have to buy batteries often. 486 laptops are often NiMH batteries. Just crack open the battery case, toss out/recycle the old cells and replace them with new AA NiMH cells from walmart (which are higher capacity and half the price of what Radio Shack sells). The new NiMH batteries are better than the old stuff, so you can actually get about half again the runtime using off-the-shelf AA batteries (or you can get the original 4/3A from various battery suppliers on the 'net and easily double the runtime)

If you use the same number of cells you can use the original charger which is usually in the battery case. If you want more time you can just add more cells. Store them in one of the other drive bays if you like. NiMH chargers are cheap, so you can build a custom high-capacity UPS into the laptop pretty cheap if you like.

I wish I could do something like this,

[pair-a-noyd]

I wish I could take an old craptop display and turn it into a tiny, portable display.
I frequently am called out to work on headless units and when they crap out I need to plug in a display to see what's up. I hate to drag a 30 lb CRT around, it would be nice if I had a tiny flat screen and tiny keyboard that I could use instead. I have several old Compaq LTE 386/486 units that I could strip down. Even keeping the laptop intact would be ok, as long as I could use it's keyboard and it's display to view and control the headless box.

Anything like that out there or anyone built one like that??

Re:I wish I could do something like this,

[dillee1]

I face the same probelm as well. My solution is to put the CRT on trolly :-) As billstewart has suggested, one might make use laptop as serial console or x client. IMO if tty or network have gone envy this might be not so usefull for debugging. It sounds like a KVM input unit for laptops are the solution. Does anything like that exisit?

Re:I wish I could do something like this,

[Halfbaked Plan]

If you hate lugging around a 30 pound display and don't want to spend much, look into getting a 'Point of Sale' display. Those are the little bitty monitors that they put on cash registers. I keep a couple grayscale VGA ones around for just that purpose. Grayscale ones are almost free when you can find them. A color one shouldn't be a lot more.

As a joke, it's a cool display to swap in on a friend. Joe comes home from a night at the bar and his 21" monitor has 'morphed' into a little tiny 9" job.

Re:I wish I could do something like this,

[Anonymous Coward]

See my Feb 28 posting here:

http://www.advogato.org/person/zotz/

If anyone has any pull with laptop manufacturers, I think this idea may be a hit, at least for people like us who do field support.

all the best,

drew

TFT to VGA by VESA-connector

[bonne]

A dutch forum post constructing VGA to old TFT They use an old vesa connector of an old isa-card, a floppy cable a tft screen. Only 16 bits, but looks pretty cool.

Re:TFT to VGA by VESA-connector

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm the topicstarter (Sprite_tm) and I'm quite sure the starting post was translated somewhere... I lost some mail a while ago though, so I can't figure out exactly where.

Anyway, the rig works only if:
-You can find the datasheet or pinout of your LCD,
-The LCD has separate r, g and b lines
-You have a videocard with a working vesa feature connector
-You're happy with your LCD running in 16 colors (4bit) mode. (so not 16bits as bonne said)

If you want more information: I'm sure there's a Dutch->English converter somewhere or a person kind enough to translate it.

Someone get out of bed the wrong side today?

[GrahamCox]

It's not a stupid question, just because to YOU it may be not worth the trouble/effort or within your expertise doesn't mean it isn't interesting to others. Obviously the screen does work, it was designed to show images when connected to the right sort of circuitry, so it's not alien science to be able to fix it up so it does something useful. Whether it's worthwhile is something only the individual concerned can answer, so no, the question won't die, because some people are more curious, interested and skilled than you are.

Re:Someone get out of bed the wrong side today?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they were 'more curious, interested and skilled than you are', I would have thought that they would have bothered to look the answer up on Google before wasting everyone's time here.

Anyone know how many times this question has been asked on 'Ask Slashdot' before? (Oh wait a minute, I can't be bothered to find out myself, so I'll just shut up now.)

Re:Someone get out of bed the wrong side today?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, going to the Moon isn't alien science either, doesn't mean it's OK for every idiot to ask "I have some fuel here, can I go to the Moon?"

" more curious, interested and skilled than you are. "

Sorry, but monkeys and cats are curious too, "skilled" doesn't follow from that. The people who have acquired the skills the hard way, ON THEIR OWN, have other things to worry about than trying to save 300$ instead of just buying a damn LCD monitor.

Look, laptops have keyboards too, no one is asking about recycling laptop keyboards...

Re:Someone get out of bed the wrong side today?

[cybermace5]

Look, the only reason I'm saying this is because I know. I do this kind of stuff every day. Curiosity, interest, and skill will do nothing to solve this problem: what you need instead is hard information, hard cash, and hard work.

I've been working on a small LCD interface project of my own, when I find the time, but it's a relatively simple LCD with full datasheets and timing diagrams available, low bit depth and low resolution so the pincount and bandwidth is not off the charts. It is an achievable goal.

The fact is this: the person who would actually ask "Can I hook up this laptop LCD to..." is a person who does not have the technical knowledge to figure it out anytime soon. From this point, you need a few good years of in-depth investigation into and experience with LCD timing constraints, firmware and software development, high speed digital design, video controller architectures, multilayer circuit board design, and general computer and electrical engineering concepts. And you will still need the datasheets.

If you DO have the datasheets, and you can GET a controller that will work with a certain panel, and you HAVE the firmware already, and you can MOSTLY COPY an existing application circuit, then you have a fighting chance of making it work. It will still cost more than buying an equivalent ready-made solution. However all of the above is going to be pretty unlikely for a display scrounged out of a dead laptop.

Re:Someone get out of bed the wrong side today?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh, but of course you are amazing and can do all that! Calm down.

Re:Someone get out of bed the wrong side today?

[tftp]

No need for sarcastic remarks. The guy obviously does this work for a living. I was in a similar position too. And yes, he can have all these things as a matter of course because businesses buy them, not make them. Hardly anyone on this planet can do all these things, and there is no need for that either (aside from a high-tech hobby.)

Re:Someone get out of bed the wrong side today?

[GrahamCox]

Well, there are quite a few "ifs" there, and on the whole, I tend to agree. However, it doesn't mean it's impossible, so for those resourceful enough, willing to spend the cash, or who happen to have the right sort of knowledge, there is no reason the question shouldn't be asked. Hoping that a particular question should "die" just because you feel you know all the pitfalls it implies is arrogant - how the hell did mankind ever get beyond the cave with that sort of attitude?

And, if I need to establish some sort of credentials on this, I'm an electronics engineer myself - well, I trained as one, been mostly working on software for the last decade, but that's by the by. A few years back I asked myself the "question that wouldn't die (tm)" in connection with an 640 x 480 LCD panel from an old Powerbook Duo. Admittedly it's nowhere near as complex as modern ones (passive matrix for one thing), but I did get it working. I was lucky in that I obtained datasheets for the panel - yes, I agree that that's pretty much a must. Didn't cost me too much either, since I had a lot of odd parts lying about anyway. All those things you are throwing back assume you want to make something repeatable, manufacturable, etc. Most casual experimenters probably don't need that - wire-wrap will be fine for a one-off, for example. What I'm saying is that it can be done, with caveats. I just don't see the point in discouraging someone just because you wouldn't do it. They'll either succeed or fail, in either case they'll learn something, which has got to be worth something.

I'll bet you could build a...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Beowulf cluster out of your comments.

(And "clod" is actually one of the nicer things I've been called today.)

I looked into this sometime ago

[SmallFurryCreature]

Had the same problem. Good screen, death laptop. But the things are so integrated you can't salvage a thing. Is like trying to salvage the CPU or memory. Just can't be done. And the memory is a removable part but good luck finding a way to use it in anything other then another laptop (of the same make).

The LCD on my laptop had the controller on the motherboard. Not in the laptop itself. So it was not a case of figuring out the leads on the ribbon cable but rather of building my own controller for the LCD.

Safe to say that was a little bit more complicated then I could handle. From the posts so far this seems to be the general conclusion. LCD screens are not cost effective to salvage.

Then again a small screen ain't all that expensive anymore and we have come an awfull long way in resolution, speed and viewing angle.

For those with a working laptop, what could work is modding your laptop. break its back so that the base is behind the LCD and you have a thick screen you can mount. or maybe you can lenghten the ribbon cable. But basically you need the PC it came with to control the LCD.

Re:I looked into this sometime ago

[bhtooefr]

I think this is why SODIMMs were invented, although EDO SODIMMs are almost as hard to find as Toshiba proprietary RAM modules. With SODIMMs, you can take a PC2100 module out of (for example) a Dell, and throw it in an IBM. HPaq, Gateway, whatever laptop supports PC2100 in SODIMM format (pretty much everything that supports DDR). Also, on CPU, there are standards. Many Pentium I and Pentium II laptops use Mobile Module I, which has the chipset onboard, and some Pentium III laptops use Mobile Module II, which adds AGP support to MM1 (but not backwards compatible). Some Pentium I/AMD K5/K6 laptops use Socket 5/7, some Pentium II laptops use uPGA or Mini-Cartridge, some P3 laptops use uPGA2, AMD K7s (AFAIK) all use a laptop version of Socket A, P4 laptops use Socket 478, Pentium M laptops use a different 478-pin uFCPGA2 socket, and K8s use Socket 754 (note that this includes the only 32-bit K8s, the Athlon XPs on Socket 754).

Oh boy, is it spring already?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every year someone asks this question here, and every few days on the electronics NGs. The problem is it takes a lot of skills and equipment to pull this off. How are you going to connect to the Hirose connectors? How are you going to get controller specs? The easiest part is finding the chip that will do the job, it's easy. The hardest part is trying to program all the chip's registers to get it to talk to the LCD panel. Have fun.
I've tried it. It was way too much hassle, esp. with the prices on 15" LCDs so low. I am typing this via a NEC LCD1550V, not a refurbed laptop screen!
(It's true I do have one 640x480 LCD display I saved from an old LCD projector, it works on a PC, but such small returns for a lot of effort... Had to take the backlight from a Dell that got crushed under a forklift, but the backlight survived.)
If you want to try anyways, the best thing to do is to get a copy of Powerstrip, this will let you play with 'deep' settings on your video card if you need to get different timings/resolutions than the standard modes allow.
THEN learn what each of the parameters mean, then you can start a project. It's gonna take a lot of time.
Good luck.

MOD PARENT INFORMATIVE

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF is up with the mods recently? That's straight out of the linked article.

yeah, but maybe here's an idea.....

[SethJohnson]

I fully agree. Frequently 'ask slashdot' topics are pretty blantantly solved with a google search.

But in this case, perhaps some community brainstorming could bring fresh ideas to this challenge and we could get some innovation.

For instance, I have an old Quicktake 200 digital camera. That's the very second generation of digital cameras. First one with an LCD. Works fine, but the resolution sucks. If I wanted too, I think I could mount the LCD facing out of the front of my case with the rest of the camera attached. I could create a bunch of images in photoshop that would look like a few meters displaying data (CPU temp, Disk space per disk, fan RPM, bandwidth utilization). Each image is the same, but the values on each meter change a bit between the frames. Store all the pics on a smart media card and load them into the camera. Set it on slideshow or just 'play'.

I could even probably connect wires to the buttons (switches) on the camera to control the slideshow from my computer via some kind of X10-like controller interface.

Take that idea one step further: Figure out how to wire a USB card reader into the contacts where the camera reads from the smart media card. Plug the USB cable into the computer and somehow create a virtual memory card for the camera to read from. Bingo. You can now dynamically generate the images the camera can read in the slideshow mode. Now you've got a real version of the fake display I was describing above.

This is a kind of workaround to interfacing a controller to an LCD screen. Use the existing controller and hijack the data that's being sent to the screen...

displays...

[Bartman_205]

ill tell you where you can put your displays! and ill tell you where you can put your freakin' sodie too!

Digital Picture Frame

[DeadBugs]

I am currently working on a digital Picture frame project using an old LCD. It will only do 640x480 but that is just fine for showing digital pictures.

I am going to power it with an old motherboard and Linux so the cost will be minimal. An old 4GB Hard Drive will hold 1000's of pictures.

Re:Digital Picture Frame

[Halfbaked Plan]

In the 60's my grandpa made what he called a 'Ski-Doo' out of an old Studebaker. He made the frame out of wood, and used some sort of an old conveyor belt to make the track. It was pretty cool looking, but not terribly useful.

I think his project was more realistic than yours.

Re:Digital Picture Frame

[don_carnage]

I have one of these myself -- an old laptop with the screen reversed inside a picture frame. Do yourself a favor: remove the battery and add a wireless card (the less wires the better.) Good luck on your project! You'll definately enjoy it!

even more links/ideas

[cwg_at_opc]

i've been researching this for a while; below is what i've got bookmarked. a vast number of LCDs only have NTSC input,
so those might not be so hot unless you've got TV/NTSC out on your video card. LCDs with VGA controllers can be
found but are much more expensive. many vendors prefer to deal in volume only, so don't expect
too much help, or fast email replies.

i'd have to agree with some of the other posters; you might want to get an old thinkpad and butcher it a bit if you need
to get more resolution than TV(less than 640x480 IIRC, maybe 425?)
anyway, here are some other novel uses:

1 - get a bunch and make a shutter for a window in a car, sunroom, etc.
2 - get a bunch and make Art, i.e. a large random color/shape thingy to hang on a wall
3 - use it as a shutter in your front door for inspecting IDs
4 - use one as a digital shutter for a darkroom enlarger(for those still using film, that is.)
5 - make your own car/truck rear-view screen(needs a vid-cam)

OCH LCD MicroView Review

LCD Mod

Extreme Overclocking-5in LCD Ultra-Thin Video Module Review - Page: 4 - Tweaking PC Hardware To The Max

Mikhailtech

5 Color LCD Mod

Mini LCD Monitor Review - Amdmb.com

Computer Compatible Small Format LCD Monitors

EarthLCD Home Page

Candescent: ThinCRT Showcase

Caltron Industries, Inc.

Caltron Industries, Inc.

Timeline, Inc. LCD Displays

6a3 5 X-Bri PAL-NTSC

6 TFT LCD Module Kits

5 mobile lcd display

Mobile LCD Modules

Pyle PLVWHR56M<br>5.6 Mobile Video LCD Monitor<br><img>

Parts Express: Browsing LCD 4 VIDEO MODULE

LCD Projectors, LCD, LCD Monitors, LCD Displays, LCD Panels, LCD Screens, Small LCD Monitors, LCD Flat Panel Displays, Resistive LCD Touch Screens

flat panel displays from Spire Controls

Exactly what I have done with "broken" stuff.

[NotQuiteReal]

Like a dropped camcorder, dead laptop, etc. eBay pays off almost every time, because somebody out there will find your cast-offs more valuable than you, and you know what? Money is fungible. You can use it to buy a much better what-ever-it-was you thought you'd make.

If you use the money to buy known parts, you can still have a DIY project and know that it will work.

Re:Exactly what I have done with "broken" stuff.

[Muad'Dave]

Or better yet:

• To save just one life, check here ($1000) _____
• To make the world safe for our babies, check here ($5000) _____
• To make everyone love one another, check here ($7500) _____
• To get rid of those nasty guns, check here ($10000) _____
• To cleanse the environment of that horrible, deadly Dihydrogen Monoxide, check here ($$all your income) _____

Re:Exactly what I have done with "broken" stuff.

[Happosai]

I too managed to replace the cracked screen on a laptop with a replacement I obtained cheaply from eBay (the laptop didn't cost me anything, as it was going to be binned as it was broken).

I think there is actually a market for a dedicated on-line service for sourcing/supplying spare parts for electronic goods like this -- whilst eBay does work sometimes, it would be better if there was somewhere where a person could advertise that they wanted a replacement thingymajig for a Acme Genericator, and if someone else comes along who has such a thing that they want to get rid of, then both parties can hook up with each other.

[Happosai]

You tell me...

[Cornelius42]

because if you know, then there would be some use for these: http://photos.edebris.com/catalog/item/1529. And there are a lot of them available.

(fyi: yea, I wrote the catalog system for my friend)

Controllers are NOT unobtanium

[poptones]

Yeesh. Controllers are NOT so freaking hard. They're also NOT "about $400" as one know it all stated, nor are their specs such freakishly closely guarded secrets. In fact, if you are capable of soounding at all like you know what you're talking about you can get a couple of samples for the asking. And who do you ask? Well, Analog Devices is a good start - they have about a dozen different types.

Yes, it would take some time. Yes, it would be a challenge. But it's a long way from impossible, and all it takes is a handfull of off the shelf parts - AD even has application notes. Combine one of their evalkits with the specs for, say, an IBM TFT display (13.3" 1024x768 units are like 80 bucks on ebay and 14" 1280x1024 units are only slightly more) and I''ll wager you could not only make your own display circuit, you could probably offer the pcboards after you design it and make enough money to buy a proper projection hdtv.

Let us know when you have the circuit - I want about four of'em.

Re:Controllers are NOT unobtanium

[Halfbaked Plan]

In fact, if you are capable of soounding at all like you know what you're talking about you can get a couple of samples for the asking.

Okay. So now you've got a little black conductive plastic box. Inside it are a few tiny chips. They're either BGA or extremely fine-pitch PQFP packages. To do anything at all with them you either have to design and etch your own very-fine pitch board, then find someone really REALLY good to hand solder the chips on them, or you've got to order one of those $500 Namichi 'burn-in/prototype' sockets. Oh, and the Namichi socket has it's own fine-footprint pins. So you're gonna have to order a custom board anyway, but if you screw up your circuit, you can swap in one of the other chips without starting all over.

Or, you can leave the little black box with the chips in it in the top front drawer of your desk, to look at once in awhile.

Re:Controllers are NOT unobtanium

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick reality check - those chips at the Analog Devices site *aren't* LCD controllers. They are interface chips that convert between VGA/DVI connections and a 24bit data bus[RGB values] + a handful of clock/control lines.

So yeah, it would be part of the LCD controller module, but the following problems still would need to be resolved:

- what voltages does the LCD want [hint: depends on manufacturer]
- what frequencies does the LCD work at [hint: depends on manufacturer]
- which signals does the LCD want [hint: depends on manufacturer]
- does the controller need an onboard frame buffer [hint: depends on manufacturer]
- uhh, does anyone know the wiring [hint: depends on manufacturer]

So in the end, I look at my workstation and the ~15K worth of test equipment I have, and I say that I *might* be able to reverse engineer a working panel(in circuit) and have a semi-reasonable chance of not killing it, given a couple months of time and a thousand or two for parts and prototype boards.

Hope you find someone else, because I sure as hell aren't touching

built like this, maybe?

[Anonymous Coward]

FOR SALE:
Commodore Portable Computer
1 Internal, 1 External Floppy
Color CRT in VG Condition
Modded with VIA Mini-ATX MB
1 GHz, 512 MB, 2.0 GB Flash Drive
All original Commodore parts A-Okay
in antistatic bags, inc. Z80 board.
$500 OBO (will consider trade for
used IBM ThinkPad)
phone 1.201.555.1212
NOT!

Linux has a really great *new* feature
called the serial port console.
Try that, perhaps, instead?

WARNING - don't trust mp3playerstore.com

[Anonymous Coward]

The parent post suggests buying from mp3playerstore.com. I would suggest reading about them first at http://www.resellerratings.com/seller2132.html. I ordered a LCD TV from them and had to send it back to Canada because it was defective -twice! And it tooks months and many phone calls and ignored emails. YMMV.

Re:WARNING - don't trust mp3playerstore.com

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. I wouldn't wish business with mp3playerstore.com on my worst enemies.

And their LCDs in my experience are NOT TFT. Total garbage, as are most of their products. The only thing worse is their customer service. Empty promises, lost returns, unanswered email, unanswered phones, managers who seem to be forever out on a smoke break.

Definitely not reputable, and should be shut down by the Canadian authorities.

How about SVGA

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a 9 inch super VGA monitor similar to what you describe from pcsurplusonline.com for about $30. It works at 800 x 600 at 56 Hz. I use it on a server and the space savings are nice. An LCD would be better, but much more expensive. They don't have any more at the moment, but keep looking.
Good luck

cracked LCD

[Anonymous Coward]

[somewhat off-topic...]

Someone gave me a 17" NEC monitor with a cracked LCD (damaged in her futile attempt to swat a fly, I swear!).

Is there a cost effective way to replace / repair this?

TIA

Digital Photo Frame

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux Toys has a "Digital Photo Frame" project using old LCD panel.

Amen brother

[grahamsz]

It's one of those questions, that if you have to ask, then you probably cant do.

I looked into interfacing a 320x240 mono lcd to a microprocessor at one point, and whilst i was sure it *could* be done (and i could probably have done it), by the time i'd got the necessary fpga development kit and a fast enough scope to debug it, i'd have far outweighed the cost of buying the nicest biggest apple display.

If you really want to integrate a display into a project then it's far easier to buy one that's designed for that purpose. I've encountered a company that make small mono line displays (like 40x8 characaters) which have an RS232 interface and are straightforward to work with.

Also anyone hobbyist that's ever invested in a couple of development kits, a decent scope, some nice power supplies, and a well stocked rack of components seems unlikely to say "With TFT-LCD's by themselves still being somewhat of a pricey commodity.."

Btw i was meaning to ask... my car's transmission makes a funky noise, and i've got lots of metal pipe lying around and surely some enterprising nerd has figured out a way to make their own transmission... chevy replacement parts by themselves are still somewhat of a pricy commodity...

Re:Amen brother

[Halfbaked Plan]

There are embedded controllers with integrated LCD controllers built right into them. That's the way to 'easily' drive an LCD. Granted, that's for a low pixel count LCD, say one with 100 total elements to drive.

LCD display interfaces heavily parallel. There are going to be a lot of interconnects. If you have a bare LCD or even one with fine pitch flex board/cable coming off it, you can forget it. It's an expensive and tricky proposition just to cobble up a prototype, of a device that will have a final market value of $18, in development labs.

This kind of stuff in pre-production is always horrendously expensive, i.e. $500 for a fine pitch 100 pin prototype socket isn't unusual.

LCD windows

[Silver_Seagull]

Dunno, I think it was Popular Mechanics or Poptronics that put it out but there was an article about how to make opaque/see-through on-command windows. Step by step and even had instructions for an automatic switch...It's no more than a year or so old....

polarized light source

[cosyne]

I've used laptop displays (still attached to laptops) as polarized light sources in order to view optical rotation in stressed plastic. IIRC this is because the whole point of liquid crystals is that you can use electricity to change the way they polarize light, so you polarize it in the first place, then run it through the crystals, and either make them block it or not (because no light gets through perpendicular polarizers).

The upshot of this is that when you have a blank white screen (white wallpaper, empty text doc, whatever), it's a nice plane of polarized light. Put on some polarizing sunglasses (or use your photography filter), tilt until the screen blacks out, and then put some stressed plastic in between and groove to the pretty patterns. Or observe the stresses in the plastic. Your call.

The question, then, is whether you can get the same use out of it by just firing up a display with no data signal and just have it glow white, or if it will break or default to black.

google for stuff like optical rotation, plastic, strain, polarizer, and you should find things like this

uses for an old LCD

[drsparkenstein]

A few years back (1999) my wife stepped on our brand new notebook computer with a 15 inch LCD. Guess what--the LCD cracked--and this is when she only weighed 105, but I digress. I couldn't freakin' believe it. (At least the backlight still worked.) Removing many sticky hole-covers and small screws, I took apart the notebook and on the back of the broken display was a sticker with the Samsung part number. Google wasn't around, or I didn't know about it, so I used Copernic to search the web for a new LCD with no luck. Since I'm an electrical engineer, I called my local Samsung rep to get the datasheet and pricing. Even though the computer was only a few months old, Samsung had already discontinued the LCD and was on to version 2 with a different form and fit. I got the datasheet, but couldn't buy a new display. So I ended up sending the computer back to Dell for a replacement LCD and it cost about $850. Ouch! I wish there had been an online used LCD swap-meet back then. Moral of the story--don't trash your old but still working LCD's. At least give'em to some sleezy used LCD salesman to resell to poor bastards like me.

Re:uses for an old LCD

[bhtooefr]

$850? They probably weren't even taking a profit there - a 15" laptop in 1999 ? BTW, Google did exist back then, but was in beta.

Way to make them useful again

[phorm]

I wasn't asking for ideas with which to re-use the parts... as you might guess I've got lots of those. I'm asking for assistance in making them useful. As in, there's a perfectly good TFT LCD on that dead laptop... I'd love to use it for something else ... but I'll be damned if I have any idea how to make it function outside of the (dead) laptop, or if that is even possible.

Re:Way to make them useful again

[BrianRaker]

You might want to check out EarthLCD. They carry a good number of parts for making LCD panels usable outside their original housings and configurations.

Re:Way to make them useful again

[Ender_Stonebender]

You'll undoubtedly the specs for each individual device. The only way to get them is pull the LCD out of whatever device it's in so that you can see who made, then either search their website for engineering specs or call them and have them e-mailed/faxed to you. Specs can be hard to find on manufacturer's website; they're not something that most end-users ever want and the manufacturer's usually don't like giving out engineering information to anyone who isn't going to place a large quantity order. (It was *real* easy for me to get specs when I worked for Teradyne...it was rare for them to place an order for less than 1000 of anything, and things in smaller quantity tended to be expensive custom components anyway.)

--Ender

Using the old computers

[billstewart]

Yeah. What I've actually got at home is the P133 laptop with the cracked screen rather than the other way around :-) It works fine connected to a monitor (actually, it works *better* connected to a monitor, because it was an ultra-portable-for-its-day subnotebook with a 640x480 screen, and I can do 1024x768 on a monitor.) Once we're really totally done with the critical Windows application that it runs, it'll probably become a wireless router or DNS server, though it could stay running Windows as a web browser appliance in the living room.

"Buy one on ebay"

[phorm]

For all those bitching that I should "buy one on ebay," there are reasons I haven't (and not because I'm cheap):

a) This particular LCD would do 16/24bit (I forget which) colour at 800x600 resolution on an 8" screen. Most ebay displays either a lot bigger, or smaller but with a much crappier (or just plain weird) resolution.

b) I'm bored after work. I realize there's a lot of work involved, and if somebody knew a place to get common pinouts and/or other parts required it would be a fun project

c) "I built this myself" is so much more satisfying than "I bought it on ebay" - especially when you know it was hard work.

Thanks

[Matrix2110]

...Actually, since it's an analogue signal...

Thanks for setting him straight, I was looking at his post wondering what planet he was from.

You should have also included the fact that interlacing is an accepted (evil?) on the analog world and is still a big thorn in the digital community. That little "i" or "p" in those resolution numbers is a big trade off. Computer monitors use progressive scanning almost always, and that is the way it should be.

Television has fought so many format wars that the battle lines are still being drawn. For example this week they are holding NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) in Las Vegas.

Every single inch of convention space is taken up by the broadcast divisions of the big companys and the 'mom and pop' vendors all competing for your attention for five solid days.

Now I am rambling but I will leave you with this: The Las Vegas hotels hate this convention with a passion. Because the entire thing is populated by people that are so smart that they know the odds inside and out.

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

The Las Vegas hotels hate this convention with a passion. Because the entire thing is populated by people that are so smart that they know the odds inside and out.
You're not trying to imply that the economy is predicated upon the stupidity of people, are you?
If we go around 'compiling' old LCDs into large screens, how will we improve the marginal benefit of making new ones?
What of the poor landfill industry, seeing inputs diminished by intelligent use of resources?
The sky is falling, squashing my tinfoil hat!

Re:Thanks

[parkrrrr]

The Las Vegas hotels hate this convention with a passion. Because the entire thing is populated by people that are so smart that they know the odds inside and out.

Y'know, they used to say the same thing about Comdex, but just knowing the odds doesn't seem to keep people from playing the odds. I've been to Vegas a few times, once for Comdex, and the casinos didn't seem appreciably less busy during Comdex than the other times. I suspect they were doing just fine, despite the number of otherwise intelligent people around.

Re:Thanks

[jcsehak]

Now I am rambling but I will leave you with this: The Las Vegas hotels hate this convention with a passion. Because the entire thing is populated by people that are so smart that they know the odds inside and out.

So they're just playing blackjack then, and counting cards? Because that's the only way you can get the odds in your favor at a casino, unless you play poker (and the casinos like you playing poker -- they get money no matter who wins).

Re:Thanks

[cayenne8]

Well, hopefully, if you are smart...you avoid the slot machines, and only play games that you can hope to have a positive expectation.

• Blackjack (If counting)
• Texas Hold'em (Know your pot odds)
• Video Poker (look at the pay schedules for ones that pay out > 100%)

Re:Thanks

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Apparently, roulette is also beatable, at least with (cheating) timers/computers. Always wondered if someone could practice enough, to time it in their head...

Re:thanks

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

Basically, yes, from the info you've given me, you're probably more likely to be able to do it and all the others I've seen ask me. You'll have to get the datasheets for the 12" and get the pinouts and/or summary and figure out, for starters, if your panel uses LVDS (look for something like Red Bit 1 Pos followed by a Red Bit 1 Neg in the pinouts). More information that you might need to check up on include the number of pixel clocks for both the board and the panel. The number of bits per color (if your board supports 8 and the panel supports just 6, you'll just get less colors). For the most part, single board and embedded computers will have support for more than enough pixel clocks and bits. You'll have to just get firmware to specify what the board to should output.

the BEST use!

[Anonymous Coward]

take two of them... strip off the reflective backings... wire them badly so that with voltage on they're all clear, voltage off, they're black... put one over each of your cars rego plates

Controllers are NOT unobtanium-SMD

[Anonymous Coward]

D) None of the above.

Just because the originals were small doesn't mean that the replacements have to be as small

Yeah! You're going to need something more than Radio Shack equipment to pull this off. But then if you're competent enough to even be attempting this. You should already have the necessary equipment. So repeat after me. Surface Mount isn't hard. Surface Mount isn't hard.

Re:Controllers are NOT unobtanium-SMD

[Halfbaked Plan]

You're going to need MUCH more than 'Radio Shack Equipment.' You're going to need equipment you can't even get out of the Newark catalog or from Digi-Key. You're going to need equipment that usually comes attached to a sales rep in a necktie. Perhaps you'll be lucky and be able to piece together what you need from some surplus dealer.

Just because the originals were small doesn't mean that the replacements have to be as small.

So you're planning on mounting each SO-8 package on an octal tube socket header? What are you going to do with the parts that have higher than an 8-pin count? And bear in mind that sometimes the tight spacing of SMD is inherent in the signal timing and path requirements. You can't just 'make it bigger' and expect things to work properly.

I'm asking because I have considerable experience prototyping and breadboarding surface mount circuits. There are solutions for discrete layout and small pincount parts. For medium and large pincount boards you HAVE to lay out a board and get a low quantity fabricated. Better budget a few thousand to the project, to get your first feasibility breadboard up and running. And that's for out-of-pocket, not the time involved.

Wincor-Nixdorf POS systems

[ORg2000]

I'm working as PC tech at a clothes retail company. We are using standard PC's with custom software for our POS-systems. They are equiped with booth a 10.4" TFT, Custom keyboards and aswell there is a 2 row VFD-display for them.
I've hooked up the 10.4" displays and used them as extra monitors for my PC. the VFD-display demands 12volt output from the serial which a normal PC dont supply. So you need a custom Serial card for that, but since it's a standard VT100 compatible display, it's easy to send information to. I've used it as a Network information display. And why not hook up 4 to display Stock ratings, virus info, RSS-feed from slash? :)

So WHAT IM A TRYING TO SAY? :)

POS-systems are often replaced. Its easiest to replace THE whole thing. This means that there is a huge market with used POS-systems that you can buy DIRT CHEAP. You can probably figure the rest :)

Re:Wincor-Nixdorf POS systems

[thskyt]

Not to be harrassing you in any way, but RS232 actually specifies the signal levels of the serial data-port in a pc to be from -12V to +12V, with an undefined area around -3V and +3V.

The problem usually lies in Notebooks only supplying -9V / +9V or even less. The chargepumps in the level-shifters used in the RS232-drivers ought to give out around 12V to comply with the specifications.

Re:Wincor-Nixdorf POS systems

[BrK]

I think he means the VFD wants to *powered* from the serial port, which is not uncommon with these types of devices, pin 9 is often used (in proprietary setups) to supply a +12V or +5V constant voltage, with a few hunred mA of current capacity.

Re:Wincor-Nixdorf POS systems

[ORg2000]

Correct. When we changed hardware platform from old PII 266 to new P4 2Ghz PCI-only machines we had to spend a while before finding a serial card that was able to supply us with 4 Serial ports + having 12+v to power the VFD.

Just search google isnt Informative

[Anonymous Coward]

Just search google is the most stupid response anyone can use. Score:5, Informative for an insightful person revealing google can search. Slashdot, get your shit together.

Opel display

[Visser]

The Opel (Vauxhall) display can easily be interfaced to a PIC microcontroller. See www.eelkevisser.nl for more information.

I like how in Star Trek. . .

[Fantastic Lad]

Your average Red Shirt command level staffer is able to, using only a sharp piece of scrap metal, reprogram the innards of a Starfleet issue communicator so that it functions as an emergency transporter.

I guess the components in starship guts have good documentation printed right on the parts.

-FL

Re:I like how in Star Trek. . .

[kalieaire]

Even Q was astonished by the level of advancement us "mere mortals" were capable of. And that in the near future, we'd surpass the greatness Q Continuum.

Re:I like how in Star Trek. . .

[GnarlyNome]

They have too, they have already killed off all the enlisted personell

For laptops displays, shunt onto the PCI bus?

[illancolombick]

I undid an old (non-powering up) laptop, pulled out the LCD panel, undid that, put it back to gether, looked on the back for the serial number, went to the web, and found... its too hard/expensive to try make any old panel work.

But I wonder: Since the laptop has integrated video controller on board, would it not be possible to connect the PCI bus from a desktop PC to the laptop PCI bus? I understand there would be a need to power the laptop motherboard, what else would one need to do to get the laptop board to appear as a video card to the desktop system? Probably remove laptop parts that would interfere and try to control the bus, I'm sure... anyone have an idea?

RTFM

[Anonymous Coward]

as someone else already said it's d) none of the above. But even he got the reason incorrect.

I'm not even going to begin to delve into the number of uninformed, downright stupid assumptioons you managed to get cram into that rather brief post. I suggest you, in the future, consider read the fucking links provided before replying.

Re:RTFM

[Halfbaked Plan]

I suggest you, in the future, consider read the fucking links provided before replying.

So are you angry because:

1. You looked again at that bunch of little black boxes in your top right desk drawer.

or is it:

2. Your boss wouldn't buy you the dozen or so 'evaluation boards' (at $500-1500 a crack) you wanted to string together to make an awkward prototype of your idea.

or maybe even:

3. You're remembering how angry you got last time. You'd charted the whole idea out in Visio, but then when you went to talk to the techs in the lab they laughed at your notion that you could just 'string together some of those sample parts' for the cost of a few Vector boards and a roll of solder.

Perhaps you can provide a link to this 'manual' that I'm supposed to read.

http://www.maxivista.com/

[jbeall]

http://www.maxivista.com/ This is a piece of software that you can stick on a notebook (or any computer for that matter), and then use as if it were anothe monitor. You need a wired network connection, though, or be willing to accept crummy refresh rates w/ WiFi.

if you have to ask

[trailerparkcassanova]

then the answer is no, you can't use it. If you could you would know where to look to get the information you need to use it.

What about LVDS?

[Craig Ringer]

I've used a number of boards with LVDS connectors, which I understand are for LCD displays. I presume it's a different type of display or something?

Re:What about LVDS?

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

LVDS stands for Low Voltage Differential Signaling.
This means several things to anybody on this article/topic.

First off, LVDS typically does not imply any protocol at all, but rather a category of devices that use two wires (that's where "differential" comes from) per signal (which can be like 8 signals per color as an example) and uses low voltages for those two wires (typically 3.3v for the signal lines, but 3.3, 5, or 12 for the panel main power).

The other common category in LCDs are TTL, which is Transistor Level Logic, and implies that it probably uses lines that are 5 volts for signaling or maybe a wider range.

TTL and LVDS have been used widely to refer to a lot of other devices and their electrical specifications. LVDS SCSI as an example. TTL vs CMOS discrete logic chips. That's it.

Now, knowing that, LVDS in the LCD panel world has come to typically refer to a chip from TI (the number eludes me at the moment). This means that most LCDs marked LVDS, given that you manage to power them up, can actually substitute for each other when connecting to a controller. However, note that for each resolution, the signaling is different. This means that if you have a controller designed for a 17 inch panel running at 1280X1024, you can put on a 18 inch panel at 1280X1024 but you cannot put on a 15 inch at 1024x768 nor a 22 at 1600X1200.

Most current laptops are LVDS.

The ones referred to in the dutch translation with the VESA feature thing is not. It's either custom or TTL. (I haven't checked)

Finally, all this applies for TFTs. DualScans and monochromes are a different story.

One possibility

[Etyenne]

Check the Ars Technica A/V Club FAQ at http://faq.arstechnica.com/?i=19. From what I can gather there, some (most ?) laptop LCD screen use a standard called LVDS. There are video card around that sport such an interface; from my Googling, there are a few GeForce 4 MX cheapo board that have it. I suppose one would have to build the cable connecting the card to the LCD though, as the LCD probably have some sort of proprietary connector.

Not sure if this true, revelant or even possible, so YMMV. Never did it myself (lack of time), but it a project I had been looking into myself so I share what I have gathered so far.

A link

[Etyenne]

Google turned this up : http://www.eio.com/public/lcd/

in a similar vein

[Anonymous Coward]

I have this blown xeon processor, but it would be rad if I could salvage the L2 cache...

Fire the firewall

[fm6]

Except you still need a hub. Maybe you have an extra one lying around, but if you don't, you have to buy one. And if you're gonna do that, might as well spend an extra $10 and get a router. Which uses even less power than an old laptop.

Dead Palm?

[Vagary]

I have a Palm IIIe that doesn't boot up anymore (even after changing the batteries, etc.) -- it suffered serious instability before it died, so I assume its CMOS started leaking or something. Anyway, it's not even worth anything on eBay, but I'd love to have something fun to do with the screen. Any suggestions?

Done

[poptones]

Jeez. Do you even know how the web works? I provided links to documentation on TWO different LCD panels (complete with those voltage and timing diagrams you find so mysterious) AND a link to the AD page listing a variety of their RGB to LCD interface controller chips.

There's like five replies down here now, by (I would guess from the usernames), more than one person. And it's obvious by your comments none of you have yet figured out how to click a link and read the information presented - so yeah: it doesn't surpise me that you would find it impossible to even imagine someone being able to accomplish something technical...

Re:Done

[Halfbaked Plan]

I don't find voltage and timing diagrams for LCDs to be 'mysterious.' I know from personal experience, however, that they are complex and critical. And I know from personal experience that there is a very steep economoy of scale when it comes to LCD displays. You really can't feasibly put an LCD into a design without spending a LOT of money on tooling and layout, which can only be recovered by making a LOT of them.

LCD display prototypes are quite expensive, because the high pitch interconnections on LCD displays use exotic materials like custom kapton 'flex boards' or custom enclosures/brackets with 'zebra strip' interconnects. An expensive team of experienced mechanical/electrical designers are needed to make it all mesh together. I've personally seen the results when a small company, even one with deep pockets, tried to tackle their first display design on their own. Often the most practical solution is to go direct to the first circuit board layout from first schematics. With plenty of break-outs and patchability on the board. But that's expensive, not something an individual or small group is going to do casually at home.

As to 'being able to accomplish something technical'- there are a lot of things that one can accomplish. Probably, a very nice hand-crafted LCD display could be fabricated. In a one-off case, where there were many, many hours devoted to fabricate that single display. And it would have to be done by an individual who understood and had skill in many areas, both in the theory and interfacing, and in the extremely fine pitch wiring. In other words, it ain't gonna happen.

bullseye

[Anonymous Coward]

Paint bullseyes on them and use them with
a 22 for target practice.

I see where you got your nick

[poptones]

But I think you're FULLY baked.

Nobody can be so stupid as you look... surely you're just trolling now?

Re:I see where you got your nick

[Halfbaked Plan]

How many products have you brought to market that had LCDs?

I've brought three.

thanks

[Craig Ringer]

That's really useful info ; thanks.

I was referring, specifically, to a header I see on a lot of embedded boards that's referred to as an LVDS header or port. I don't have any cases open right now, but here's an example I found quickly:

http://www.2advancedcomputers.com/products/singl e board computers/via/PEAK603VL.htm

Extensive LCD Support:
36-bit DSTN/TFT flat panel interface with 256 gray shade support
Integrated 110 MHz LVDS interface
Support for all resolutions up to 1600x1200

So ... ideas about what that would mean in this context? Might it be possible to "borrow" an LCD from an older laptop (PII-300 laptop, 12" 1024x768 display in this case) for use with an SBC like this?

ROTFL

[poptones]

Returning a gameboy to wal-mart does not mean "brought to market" you know...

Time to look for better waters, mr. troll.

Re:ROTFL

[Halfbaked Plan]

What a waste of time. You're just going to sling personal insults, eh?

I known when I've been trolled, allright.

Please send them to us

[retroworks]

Hi, we have demand for old laptop and other LCD screens at our computer recycling plant in Middlebury, Vermont. The demand is repair-based (there's no silver or anything of value in them to justify the demand, unlike 286s and the like. There is a little bit of Hg, less than a fluorescent lamp). I'm sure other recyclers like us get the same inquiries from screen buyers, usually from Southeast Asia where they are being made. I visited a massive 4-story refurbisher city in Guangzhou, China, like a parking garage with 270 small flea-market/repair shops going on. My theory is that they have small fingers, big brains, and lots of time on their hands.