Slashdot Mirror


4km WiFi Range w/ $5 DIY Antenna

Mignon writes "This industrious fellow in New Zealand made his own WiFi antenna using a USB WiFi adapter and a Chinese 'spider skimmer mesh scoop.' He got about 17 dB signal improvement for about US $5 in materials." Update: 05/25 23:09 GMT by T : Reader John Stockdale offers a U.S. hosted mirror of the site. Update: 05/26 13:58 GMT by T : Reader Jared Mauch contributes another mirror.

254 comments

  1. 92db won't help.. by Tesko · · Score: 0

    when his site gets slashdotted... in the first 25 seconds of the post.

    1. Re:92db won't help.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      g-n-u-u-n-g-n-u-u-n-g

  2. Just need a signal by os2fan · · Score: 3, Funny

    All he needs now is a signal to pick up. {laugh - it's funny}

    --
    OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
    1. Re:Just need a signal by bad_fx · · Score: 1

      I know the parent's a joke, and I laughed :), but NZ does have a reasonably active wireless community.

      I go on the occasional wardrive across parts of NZ and we get around one hundred up to two hundred APs on relatively short trips (which they usually are).

  3. What direction? by kdougherty · · Score: 3, Informative

    If it was omni-directional, then I'll be very impressed, but you can make a pringles antenna for very cheap, and get about 10 miles range (line of sight).

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -Alan Kay
    1. Re:What direction? by kdougherty · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can also make an antenna out of an old tin can, which is very cool and very cheap for all those interested in an effective method for long range. http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.ht ml

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -Alan Kay
    2. Re:What direction? by sbranden · · Score: 3, Informative

      You have to take the cost of the wifi card, pigtail and cable into account. This system is much cheaper because they are not required. It just uses a usb cable (less loss and cheaper than coax), a usb wifi device and a reflector.

    3. Re:What direction? by another_henry · · Score: 4, Informative

      It couldn't possibly be omnidirectional. That would break the laws of physics. To get a boost in signal strength you must either make it more directional or increase the power itself with an amplifier.

      --
      "Studies have shown that people who eat peanuts live longer than those who do not eat."
    4. Re:What direction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      It could be omni in the H plane with a seriously pinched E plane (think gain antennas for 2m or 70cm)

    5. Re:What direction? by lullabud · · Score: 3, Informative

      USB has even better than less loss, it has effectively no loss, since it's not an analog signal and has error checking between the WiFi card and the host controller. This definitely sounds like a cheaper, more efficient solution. Maybe when a mirror is up I'll actually get to see it!

    6. Re:What direction? by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 5, Informative
      It couldn't possibly be omnidirectional. That would break the laws of physics. To get a boost in signal strength you must either make it more directional or increase the power itself with an amplifier.

      "Omnidirectional" is somewhat of a misnomer. Omnis transmit a pancake-shaped signal -- good signal in all directions in the same plane, but very little signal up and down. What you're refering to is called an isotropic radiator.

      -jim

    7. Re:What direction? by another_henry · · Score: 0

      Fair enough. I don't know much about radio!

      --
      "Studies have shown that people who eat peanuts live longer than those who do not eat."
    8. Re:What direction? by Daemonik+CyCow · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why can't we break the laws of physics?

    9. Re:What direction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never thought I would say this but I dont think the /.'ers get this one.

      The interesting idea here is -not- making a wifi antenna, anyone can do that with a pringles can. But the use of a USB WiFi adapter so you dont need the itty bitty coax that has so much loss that you can negate the effects of your wonderful antenna by going a few extra feet.

      He can use ordinary USB cable or for long runs, the amp'd cable.

    10. Re:What direction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, think of all the problems we could solve if we all just pulled together and broke the unjust laws of physics. Together, acting as one!

      I think we should look to Thoreau, Ghandi, and King for guidance in these matters.

    11. Re:What direction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, really? Another person with no clue in electronics making absurd claims because of the word 'digital'... sigh... betcha you even think LCD panels are 'digital' too huh?

    12. Re:What direction? by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      I'm too lazy to look it up, but isn't there a limit on "effective radiated power" on these things? And would a highly directional antenna violate this rule? Our TV transmitter "only" puts out about 100kw but with antenna gain, it reaches the legal limit of 5 megawatts, because we "squish" the signal flat. No use pumping it out to space(unless the astronauts want to see "Gunsmoke") or into the ground.

      --
      What?
    13. Re:What direction? by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 2, Informative

      The absolute power limit is 1 watt for unlicensed 2.4 ghz equipment. The EIRP limit is 4 watts for point-to-multipoint, but can be higher for point-to-point. (Disclaimer: I'm not an RF engineer, so read the actual fcc regulations before you try it.)

      more information

      -jim

    14. Re:What direction? by f0rt0r · · Score: 1

      Well, we can, but penalties are huge!

      --
      I can't afford a sig!
    15. Re:What direction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are analog?

    16. Re:What direction? by neonsam · · Score: 2, Funny

      I asked the same question in junior high science...Actually I asked "What happens if you break a law of physics?" His answer - you become very famous.

    17. Re:What direction? by Daemonik+CyCow · · Score: 1

      zaphod.....

    18. Re:What direction? by comet_11 · · Score: 1

      Why can't we break the laws of physics?

      Because the laws of physics tell us we can't, that's why!

      --
      By reading this comment, you immediately waive any and all rights regarding it.
    19. Re:What direction? by etnoy · · Score: 0

      How are the laws around these DIY antennas? Will the increased efficency make it illegal to use in some countries? I know that in Sweden there are quite restrictive laws and rules around radio broadcasting, is there anybode here who knows about how legal it is there?

      --
      Quantum hacker.
    20. Re:What direction? by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      You want to go to G'tmo?

      Free holidays in Cuba for anyone caught breaking the laws off physics!

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    21. Re:What direction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that has got to be one of the most clever sigs I have seen in quite some time. Puts working in today's economy in perspective. Kudos

  4. freecache link by rpdillon · · Score: 5, Informative

    There was a story about freecache, but no one here on slashdot ever uses it in stories. Here's a pre-cached link, in case the main NZ server goes up in smoke. http://www.freecache.org/http://www.usbwifi.orcon. net.nz/

    1. Re:freecache link by JonLatane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Could that be because it's designed for 5+MB files, and there aren't many HTML pages that are that size? Don't waste their bandwidth (besides, the server is down anyway, before it was even cached).

    2. Re:freecache link by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      Clickable link: http://www.freecache.org/http://www.usbwifi.orcon. net.nz/ -- assuming Freecache hasn't been slashdotted.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    3. Re:freecache link by rpdillon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I cached it before the story ran because I saw it before it went public (subscriber), but the problem is, if the server goes up in smoke, freecache will stop serving because it can't verify the server is still there. That was my mistake. We need to use freecache in the actual story, rather than in comments, I guess.

      Good point about the file size - html != >5MB.

    4. Re:freecache link by 0x20 · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...And the Google cache as well

    5. Re:freecache link by AVee · · Score: 1

      That isn't a link. This is...

    6. Re:freecache link by Zevlag · · Score: 0

      The problem with the google cache is that it does not cache the pictures.

    7. Re:freecache link by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 2, Informative

      It could be because freecache only caches a single file, not anything it links to. Images still come from the original site.

    8. Re:freecache link by apophenia · · Score: 1

      The proxy server could not handle the request GET/http://www.usbwifi.orcon. net.nz/.

      Reason: Host not found

      Apache/1.3.26 Server at www.freecache.org Port 80

      -----

      So much for freecache.. what is their timeout set to?
      11:04 PM MST

  5. Already slashdotted? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Still, impressive gain for $5 worth of parts. Makes me wonder what I'll get if I can ever find the right connector for my Linksys wireless router to hook it up to standard coax and a pizza dish I took out of a dumpster.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:Already slashdotted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prove it or shut yer yap.

  6. Google Cache by mikew924 · · Score: 1

    http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:J2uZj8M2NAQJ: www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/+spider+skimmer+mesh+scoo p&hl=en

    1. Re:Google Cache by bbdd · · Score: 1, Redundant

      karma whoring clickable link

    2. Re:Google Cache by AVee · · Score: 1

      And how about a link...

    3. Re:Google Cache by wo1verin3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm only learning html, sorry

      How long have you been learning that you haven't gotten to 'hyperlink' yet?

  7. So now we call it. . . by Sialagogue · · Score: 5, Funny

    General Tso's Access Point.

    --
    The only acceptable defense of scientific results is to say that they were the product of the Scientific Method.
    1. Re:So now we call it. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was funny. Mod it up!

    2. Re:So now we call it. . . by mebob · · Score: 1

      LOL. now for a little controversy.

      What is the real way to say "Tso"?

      --
      =1000101
  8. Apparently... by I_Love_Pocky! · · Score: 4, Funny

    it has other uses as well. If you wrap your head in this spider silk mesh it is even more effective at blocking the evil thought control waves than tin foil!

  9. Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by bobhagopian · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder if there are hidden shortcomings to this technique. If it only costs $5, I would think that manufacturers of wireless access points would have implemented this a long time ago (or at least made it available as a $40 add on). After all, there *is* a market for it, and at least some people would buy such a device.

    1. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by Carnildo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wonder if there are hidden shortcomings to this technique. If it only costs $5, I would think that manufacturers of wireless access points would have implemented this a long time ago (or at least made it available as a $40 add on).

      The most likely shortcoming is that it probably violates the FCC rules about how much power an unlicensed transmitter can put out.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by Llywelyn · · Score: 1

      It is directional, so it isn't especially suited to laptops and base stations--for those you want something omnidirectional, so that I don't need to know where the base station is and keep my antenna stationary relative to it.

      --
      Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
    3. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Possibly not.

      In the US I believe the output is measured by the effective output of the antenna (essentially transmitter power + gain AFAIK). This allows you to build directional antennas that can go some distance (you're also allowed a whole 1W signal which is quite a lot).

      OTOH in Europe we measure EIRP, which is total power in any direction - so directional transmitters are illegal (we also only get 100mw to play with). This is why things like the WRT54G are so useful - you can have a really powerful receiver (not limited) and a still use the legal transmitter in the other aerial.

    4. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The most likely shortcoming is that it probably violates the FCC rules about how much power an unlicensed transmitter can put out.

      No, the total output power hasn't changed. The antenna just concentrates the signal into one direction.

      The FCC doesn't restrict what kind of antenna you can use, just the power going into the antenna.

    5. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by Rupan · · Score: 1

      Because such a signal gain is illegal for unlicensed bands / users. This is an FCC mandated rule that all WAP manufacturers must adhere to.

      --
      Ads? What ads?
    6. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 4, Informative

      IIRC, the maximum tx power in the 2.4ghz band for unlicensed users is 1 watt, or 4 watts EIRP. For point-to-point links, though, you can trade 1db of power reduction for 3 db of antenna gain, allowing much higher EIRP.

      More info is here

      -jim

    7. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It's still illegal to have too much gain. Concentrating the power increases the signal strength (which in effect is increasing the power).

    8. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah its an FCC problem, but also a neighbor problem.

      Before any more dickheads go out to build their own can-tenna or strainer dishes, my neighbor decided to do that a few years ago, wiped out every wifi network in the neighborhood. All any of us could see was his frickin AP as the signal overrode ours, and the bleed into adjacent channels meant no relief there either.

      After me and a half dozen other people spent a week trying to figure out what the heck was going on, we lined up a number of 2.4GHz video transmitters on every channel and hummed them at his house. I'm betting he didnt have a usable wifi signal at home the entire two years I continued to live there. Well worth the $5 in electricity per year.

    9. Re:Why haven't AP manufacturers tried this? by mindstrm · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't believe directionals are illegal.. there are still rules for how to deal wiht it.. it's just not as liberal as in the US.

      Generally it's something like 3db of gain is permitted for each 1db drop in transmitter power.

      So you can't just start throwing directionals off your 100mW transmitter.. you also have to attenuate it properly first.

      This allows you to get directional gains, but keeps a sane limit on the total power.

  10. Damn that was quick.. by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Ok, did anyone grab content before it went up in smoke?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  11. Death by /. by gphinch · · Score: 2, Funny

    How much does the antena cost that increases your site bandwidth?

    --
    in bed.
  12. How Much Do the Commercial Versions Cost? by osewa77 · · Score: 2, Informative

    This site shows what's commercially available, but gives no price. Does any fellow slashdotter have a clue about exactly how much money has been saved?
    _________________
    distract free online advertising

    1. Re:How Much Do the Commercial Versions Cost? by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try looking at hyperlink, superpass, and netnimble for comparison.

      -jim

    2. Re:How Much Do the Commercial Versions Cost? by theDunedan · · Score: 1

      > Does any fellow slashdotter have a clue

      There is a fellow listed at that site as the American distributer. I emailed him to ask about pricing and I might post his response here if I can remember to.

      - Paul

    3. Re:How Much Do the Commercial Versions Cost? by CaptBubba · · Score: 3, Informative
      Here is a nice list of directional antennas. They aren't exactly exmensive if you are willing to go with an ugly reflector grid model. 15dBi for $40 and 19dBi for $45.

      Also, to those confused about how antenna gain works. The gain is measured in comparison to the output of an isotropic radiator, basically something that puts out the same signal strength in all directions. So that means that any unamped antenna with a gain higher than 1dBi is directional in some sense, because the total radiated power is still the same. So-called omnidirectional antennas really are only omnidirectional in the horizontal plane, if you go up or down their signal strength drops off rapidly.

    4. Re:How Much Do the Commercial Versions Cost? by BattyMan · · Score: 2, Informative

      So that means that any unamped antenna with a gain higher than 1dBi is directional in some sense, because the total radiated power is still the same.

      No, +1dB gain is still gain.
      I'm pretty certain that 0dB == unity gain.
      It's a logarithmic scale, with negative dBs for attenuation situations. log(1) = 0

      --
      Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
    5. Re:How Much Do the Commercial Versions Cost? by theDunedan · · Score: 1

      The price for the 19 Dbi dish at www.stelladoradus.com (mentioned above) is $41. For me, the extra $37 is worthwhile.

  13. Too bad it's directional by pedantic+bore · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The antenna is directional so this kind of range isn't that helpful unless the two end points are stationary. Which is exactly the kind of thing I don't use wireless for...



    I guess it's a neat hack if that's the only way to communicate with your friend 4Km away, and you only have one friend (or your one friend has a nice network connection to the rest of the world and is willing to share).

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    1. Re:Too bad it's directional by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Iguess it's a neat hack if that's the only way to communicate with your friend 4Km away, and you only have one friend (or your one friend has a nice network connection to the rest of the world and is willing to share).

      An acquantance of mine is considering setting up something like this, since he can't get high-speed internet access -- too far for DSL, and the cable company hasn't upgraded his section of the network yet. However, a five-mile wireless link would let him work off someone else's high-speed connection -- it's just a matter of finding someone willing to help.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:Too bad it's directional by arcanumas · · Score: 2, Informative

      What, you mean like Athens Metropolitan Network?
      Very cool i would say...
      At take a look at the node count
      To these people it's very usefull.

      --
      Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
    3. Re:Too bad it's directional by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      But, you need line of sight? I'm trying to do exactly that, connect to my friends network. If we got 2mbit, we'd be happy. We live three miles apart.

      But this whole line of sight thing. How are you supposed to do that? It's not like there's a grassy field between us. There's harldy a building though, it's all trees, but if you need LoS you'd need a very tall tower to mount this thing on regardless?

      I'm trying to find a way to get this done without a LoS. It doesn't have to be 802.11, we just need some method of doing it wirelessly.

      If you have any ideas please let me know..

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    4. Re:Too bad it's directional by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      If it's just a matter of finding someone to help, please, help me out here.

      I'm trying to do this with a friend that's 3 miles away. thing is, we don't have LoS. There's mostly trees between us but even if we stand on each others houses I doubt we have a clear line of sight.

      Do you know what the options are? I can't exactly mount a 20' tower on the roof.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    5. Re:Too bad it's directional by Hamstaus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The antenna is directional so this kind of range isn't that helpful unless the two end points are stationary.

      Wrong. It isn't helpful unless one end point is stationary. Which is a big difference.

      Case in point. I live on a fairly large property. I'm trying to extend my wireless signal to the edge of the property, where my hammock is, so I can work in my hammock. A directional antenna hooked to the transmitter on my router inside my house extends the range in whatever direction I point the antenna in, i.e. towards my hammock. Since the antenna increase pickup as well as transmit power, I just put it on my stationary router, and I don't need to do anything to my wi-fi card on my mobile laptop.

      If I wanted to extend coverage to the whole property, I could aim my antenna at a distant repeater to get omnidirectional coverage from the repeater, while still increasing range from my base-station router.

      Wireless rules.

      --
      I moderate "-1, Fool"
    6. Re:Too bad it's directional by plover · · Score: 1
      A friend of mine just solved the exact same problem. Only a 1/2 mile separation, but trees and hills intervened. He purchased a WISP bridging setup, I'm guessing it's this one. He said it has a 12 mile range, and does not require line of sight.

      I hope you have $2K laying around...

      --
      John
    7. Re:Too bad it's directional by Macgruder · · Score: 1

      I'm getting ready to do something like this for my fiance... our houses are only 5 miles apart, and no desire to set her up with DSL and the associated contract since she'll be moving in here in a few months anyhow. Tie this into my DSL here, then point a pringle's can at her house, then her laptop with a wi-fi card can piggy-back onto my connection

      --
      I'm not crazy,I'm actively irresponsible.
    8. Re:Too bad it's directional by bluGill · · Score: 1

      Not true. My connection to home is currently wireless with a directional antenna. DSL only works over high quality phone lines. I've always wonder just how much copper is there between my house and the phone company... All place in the ground at a large labor expense.

      Wireless power delivery doesn't work so well (though Tesla fans might try to claim otherwise if they don't understand exactly what his assumptions were). For most data uses though, wireless makes perfect sense.

    9. Re:Too bad it's directional by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 1

      It's just the thing if you want to "share" your internet access with a relative across town.

      --
      Stop the world; I need to get off.
    10. Re:Too bad it's directional by pedantic+bore · · Score: 1

      Yes, but you're planning ahead. Imagine that you walk out, across your fairly large property, and when you get to your hammock you decide that it really would be nicer to work down by the lake (or anywhere other than in the hammock). You have to hike back to the base station, decide where you want to be, aim the antenna in that direction, and then walk back again. Every time you change your location, you need to make another trip home. Since we're talking about a 4Km range, that could be a lot of walking. Not that it can't be done, just that it's not that useful.

      --
      Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    11. Re:Too bad it's directional by zogger · · Score: 1

      is there a single point in between you two that is visible to both of you? if so, perhaps you can mount some sort of stand alone self powered AP there to act as a relay?

      Reason I ask is because I've been thinking about this myself, because I can't get broadband..BUT.... over a big hill and about 2.5 miles from me more or less in a straight line is a place (a truckstop really) that has a commercial wifi subscription you can get. Cheap, too, paid by the year. It's my nearest place with wifi I think. If I knew how to do it maybe this would be possible, but I just don't know. All I got so far is one spare small solar panel, and a few spare rechargeable battery packs from cordless drills that are defunct, but the batteries still hold power. Seems like a nice kit that would do this would sell well, as long as it wasn't too expensive, but I'd be interested in a tutorial of possibilities, as I've never done wireless internet yet. I think I could manage the power, and the actual mounting (if I find a sweet spot and get the property owners permission of course), but the rest, no idea. I guess google is my friend on that one.

      rural areas of the US are simply dismal for broadband, so there's wifi, satellite, or expensive cellular as the possibilities. Satellite and cellular just way too expensive, so that's out.

    12. Re:Too bad it's directional by liquidsin · · Score: 1

      There has to be a solution to this involving a couple GPS units, some servos rigged to the antenna, and some perl scripts. I'm just too tired right now to think it through.

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    13. Re:Too bad it's directional by Hamstaus · · Score: 1

      Ah, I see your point. That is true, it can require a bit of planning ahead. However, that is one of the nice things about a parabolic waveguide antenna, is that it's not a tight pinpoint broadcast. The parabolic reflector reflects the signal going in one direction ("behind" the antenna), and throws it in the other direction. You still have a wide forward broadcast at the expense of your "backwards" signal. Using a parabolic antenna, I can broadcast to a wide area of property at the expense of area that might be off-property, which is even better so my neighbours don't pick up the signal.

      --
      I moderate "-1, Fool"
    14. Re:Too bad it's directional by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      Yea, and satellite is slow. You can download streams pretty quick, but latency is double a modem. Forget online gaming.

      Cellular? You have cellular broadband available? Yikes, that probably is expensive.

      I have a cablemodem, so I can't really complain.. (okay yes I can, Cox sucks ass) but my friend and I would really like a network connection that's better then 25K a second between us. We have an openvpn connection between us that's extremely reliable (It's been running for two years with zero configuration changes) but it's just slow.

      If we had a faster connection we'd be able to do a lot more cool stuff, one being fault tolerance; when one of us is down we could route traffic over the wireless connection.

      If you can get a wireless relay running from solar panels and batteries, I'd like to know how you do it because I could probably throw one in a tree somewhere =)

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    15. Re:Too bad it's directional by adamfranco · · Score: 1

      One solution would be to rig an old ~200MHz laptop up with two of the usb/wireless/fry-skimmer-antennas and put it on top of your hill. One could point to the source, the other home. Then the issue would be power. You mentioned solar, which would be pretty cool. Place the laptop in a weather-proof box, shaded by the solar panel, with the the two antennas sticking up and yay, access!

      Some links to help:

      Solar Laptop
      http://www.mrsolar.com/
      Home-built
      Radioactive Network

      Please email me if you get something like this working, I'd love to set one up for my parents.

      --
      "When ideology and theology couple, their offspring are not always bad but they are always blind." -- Bill Moyers
    16. Re:Too bad it's directional by zogger · · Score: 1

      first, my bad, the cellular isn't broadband, it's just wireless. verizon has it in my area. T-mobile doesn't, which have a much cheaper plan for pure data. I just got a landline and regular dialup, expensive enough, it's all I use the POTS for.

      Friend of mine out in the sticks in wyoming has satellite inet. Costed him beaucoup to get it, but it was that or an occassional 19.2 connect on the old phone wirez there... all I know is, I don't have a grand up front then almost one hundred a month for inet, that just isn't happening. latency wouldn't bother me, I don't game much if ever, but I still hear the satellite providers are dinks in other areas, bandwith transfer and whatnot. So that's a no go either way you look at it.

      I have found this so far:

      this one I believe was covered on slashdot:

      http://www.jhai.org/technology.htm

      not sure about this one

      http://www.zakongroup.com/technology/highest_wir el ess_network/

      Apparently doing about what we want. So it's possible now, with off the shelf stuff. Expensive though, need a home made outta junk stuff idea here.

    17. Re:Too bad it's directional by zogger · · Score: 1

      well, I have an old laptop I have run many times off of solar, a powerbook 280c, it only has a 12 volt input, but I doubt I could use that thing for this project, it's just totally designed wrong, it was designed to be expanded into a desktop dock, then there's the issue of the OS, etc. Other laptops I have seen (easily avaialable) all have to convert or invert the power, making them energy hogs.

      However, I found a coupla links, look above in my reply to cbreaker. I also think using a pda makes more sense, just from the power angle. I only want to use a small panel that can be masked/cammied easier, plus cheaper, plus I already got a small one spare, I think IIRC it's aboiut 300 mw. It would need a charge controller as well because it's open voltage, varies like most PV panels with amount of rays hitting it, and you don't want to fry out your batteries, and you want the exact power getting to your AP device. And you want it hidden, probably, because some fool would blast the thing with his shotgun, perhaps thinking it's some cop snooper device perhaps. Perhaps a dodge around that would be to put your relay directly at someone elses house, offer them free access for hosting the thing, then you wouldn't have to worry so much about the power and the security of the relay, etc. That would just be knocking on the door saying howdy and running it by them. or mayber just leasing the space, so much a year, you do all the work, etc.

    18. Re:Too bad it's directional by smyle · · Score: 1
      ...so I can work in my hammock.

      You obviously misunderstand the purpose of a hammock.

      --

      Sleep is just a poor substitute for caffeine, anyway. -Bob Lehmann

    19. Re:Too bad it's directional by jjhall · · Score: 1

      Rather than a powered access point, have you considered passive repeater? Here is how you would go about it.

      1. Go to your relay point, set up a directional antenna to one of your locations. Tune and aim both your first location's antenna and your relay point antenna for optimal signal.

      2. Set up a second antenna (as close as possible to the first one) to link with your second site. Tune and aim both your second location and second relay antenna for optimal signal.

      3. Connect both relay point antennas together with some low-loss coax. The better quality and lower loss the better.

      4. Enjoy.

      This will not work in all situations, and won't be as powerful as having a full powered AP repeater setup, but for a short run with an object in the middle, it should work fine. A lot less maintainance than a solar or remotely powered AP, and the owner of the relay point is going to be a lot less resistant than he would with another device using power.

      Not to mention it is quite a bit cheaper as well.

      Good luck,

      Jeremy

    20. Re:Too bad it's directional by zogger · · Score: 1

      really good tip! Thanks, appreciate that. I'm gonna go exploring sometime soon see what my terrain really is. I know there's one big hill between here and there, maybe just from that point it might work. And heck ya, the cost looks to be in the budget, not to mention the complexity of it, simpler is better.

    21. Re:Too bad it's directional by mrogers · · Score: 1
      USB WiFi adapter with a 20' cable, attached to a balloon? Remember to unplug it when you hear thunder. :-)

      To use a directional antenna you'd have to add extra tethers to the balloon to keep it pointed in the right direction...

      Actually if all you need to lift is a little USB gadget and a sieve, a (plastic) pole with a couple of (plastic) tethers to stop it swaying would probably do the trick.

  14. Temporary Mirror at Stanford University by jstockdale · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.stanford.edu/~jstockdl/tmp/usbwifi.orco n.net.nz/

    Mirrored as much as I could of the images before the server was smoked.

    -S ...

    --
    **AA: a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes
    1. Re:Temporary Mirror at Stanford University by theDunedan · · Score: 1

      This looks good (expect for the pics you could not get). Thanks a lot.

    2. Re:Temporary Mirror at Stanford University by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      before the server was smoked

      Server smoked? Hardly. More like the packet-shaper or traffic counter for their international upstream. Their site is running beautifully if you happen on this side of the world.

  15. Nice work by Beuno · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good to know some people are still trying to improve technology remembering that not everybody has 1 trilion dollars a month to spend on over-priced gadgets.

    Good work!

  16. Slashdotted :) by nomad63 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Site is having a slashdot effect.
    You need to tell these people that you are putting their site up for brute force test before doing it so, so that they can buy some akamai bandwidth (questionable how effective it is lately though) <grin>

    --

    __________
    The more I know people, the more I love animals
  17. See Kiwis, we really do deserve our... by interpretthis.org · · Score: 4, Funny

    Piece of number eight wire reputation.

    Hmm, now I feel sadly parochial.

  18. Unlimited gain! (but it doesn't matter) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    In theory for a transmitting antenna, there is no limit to how much gain you can get. Gain is the ratio of received power to the power you would get with an isotropic radiator. To get gain, you just focus the beam tighter. The limit to how tight you can focus the beam is set by the aperture of the antenna. The gain of a receiving antenna is set by its effective area. Gain isn't hard to get.

    The bigger problem is to get line of sight. At this frequency, if you can't get line of sight, all the gain in the world won't help.

    1. Re:Unlimited gain! (but it doesn't matter) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is an upper limit to how much you can focus RF energy, it's limited by the wavelength of the signal. The smaller the wavelength, the smaller the antenna required to focus a beam of a given gain.

  19. must be for a user, not a provider by kaan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I lived in Wellington, New Zealand for a while, and I sure hope this guy is using this to steal access from somebody else, not to share his bandwidth with other people. Internet connectivity was very expensive down there, and metered (we had dsl through Telstra). Even the much-hyped CityLink wireless service is pay-as-you-go. But with his $5 setup, this guy can scan around his neighborhood until he finds somebody with an open network, and presto! Free 'net access.

    1. Re:must be for a user, not a provider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yeah, because extending distance means he did it to be a thief (?)

      :P

    2. Re:must be for a user, not a provider by ykiwi · · Score: 1

      Times change.
      I live in wellington, (I am right under Mt Victoria), knowingly provide free 802.11g access & have an unlimited bandwidth deal with telecom NZ. The cost is insane however, at $80 ($50) per month for unlimited to 10GB at just 256k, then throttled to 128k after 10GB.

      wellington has a great service in Citylink, which is a pay per MB downtown-wide wifi service. That's getting kicked hard because Citylink, who are also wellington's largest business ISP, and host NZ's largest site, were suddenly depeered from telecom late last week.

    3. Re:must be for a user, not a provider by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to the Dominion Post, they're hooking up to Massey University WiFi points. I'm guessing it's included in the fees.

    4. Re:must be for a user, not a provider by imroy · · Score: 1
      Internet connectivity was very expensive down there, and metered (we had dsl through Telstra).

      What! You mean it's not just us Aussies that have to deal with those bastards? Will the madness never end...

    5. Re:must be for a user, not a provider by mcbridematt · · Score: 1

      Yep. Our New Zealand friends have to face the hell.

  20. We get signal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Someone sent up us the Slashdotting

  21. comparing apples to oranges by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 3, Informative

    The super cantenna is only 12 db. 17 is more impressive, and should result in greater range.

    Range itself is hard to compare, as it depends on environment, the radios used (cheap 35 mW? 200 mW with good receive sensitivity?), whether the same antenna is used on both ends, and the subjective evaluation of what exactly constitutes a "useable signal".

    -jim

    1. Re:comparing apples to oranges by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was wondering why your post was informative rather than funny until I checked the link. The original Cantenna (Heathkit?) was a paint can filled with transformer oil and a 50 ohm resistor dummy load for tuning transmitters--not much gain there! :^)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    2. Re:comparing apples to oranges by YankeeInExile · · Score: 2, Informative

      5 dB of additional gain at one end will give you 77% more range, all other things being equal. Adding 5dB at EACH end, and you have tripled the distance

      Or, it can give you a nice punch through vegetation loss

      Does anybody have reliable (or empirically determined) Eb/N0 and NF figures for popular WiFi hardware, for doing real link budgets?

      --
      How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
    3. Re:comparing apples to oranges by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      the funny part is most of these people waste a GOB of their Rf power in the feedline.

      I can take the worst pringles can antenna and stick it almost directly on the Wifi card (1 1/4 wavelength of feedline) and beat the best home made antenna with 10 feet or more feedline and 3 connectors because of the card connector and adapter to the N feedline connector...

      losing a gob of power in the feedline and connectors (almost 1 db per connector is lost at 2.4ghz)

      removing losses adds up to greater radiated power faster than trying to build gain.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:comparing apples to oranges by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 1

      Making your own Cantenna is pretty easy too.

    5. Re:comparing apples to oranges by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 1

      You can find transmit power / recieve sensitivity numbers for a lot of prism2 cards here. I suspect most of these numbers are gleaned from product brochures, so you mileage may vary.

      -jim

    6. Re:comparing apples to oranges by JCMay · · Score: 1

      1 dB per connector? Egads, are you using bananna jacks? Properly assembled and torqued Type-N and SMA connectors shouldn't have more than a 0.1 dB of insertion loss.

      That said, longer feedlines are hell on signals, especially on the recieve end. (Ever wonder why satellite receiver systems have an amplifier right in the feed horn?)

      I've used SMA, Wiltron K, SMP (GPO) and a few others. More than a tenth means that the connector is hosed.

    7. Re:comparing apples to oranges by YankeeInExile · · Score: 1

      Interesting table, although lacking in meat.

      A receiver sensitivity number, without specifying test conditions, is really meaningless. Vendor A could specify a signal of -80 dBm for a BER of 10**-6, while vendor B could specify -90dBm for a BER of 10**-3. Without both numbers, a purchaser cannot make an informed decision. (This is all moot if there is a standard published test condition, perhaps as part of the 802.11 standard, which I should read, but that smacks of RTFA)

      Wbat I would love to see is Eb/N0 figures for the uncoded stream, the coding gain, and noise figure for the RX front end. I'll go look at Nationals website -- I am sure there are some app notes for the PRISM chipsets.

      --
      How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
    8. Re:comparing apples to oranges by YankeeInExile · · Score: 1

      You mean wire nuts is not a good connector technology for wideband 2GHz singals?

      Cue all the people with the anecdotal, "well, I used nothing but a piece of snot as a feedline, and I was able to work EME on X-band" stories.

      --
      How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
    9. Re:comparing apples to oranges by j1m+5n0w · · Score: 1
      Vendor A could specify a signal of -80 dBm for a BER of 10**-6, while vendor B could specify -90dBm for a BER of 10**-3.

      I think the standard practice is to quote the receive sensitivity for an 8% packet error rate. (Note: a single bit error will cause the whole packet to be discarded). I assume they use full size packets.

      Independent testing would be nice, but I'm not sure any of the ususal sites (tom's hardware etc) have the motivation, knowledge, and equipment to meaningfully compare radio performance aside from simple range tests.

      -jim

    10. Re:comparing apples to oranges by SloWave · · Score: 1

      Site 73 is definately not a ham radio site. The 'Cantenna' article shown there drives the clueless meter to new heights.

  22. Mirrors everywhere! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about a Freecache of the mirror?

  23. EMP by halfelven · · Score: 1

    Just think what one could do with an EMP blast (electro-magnetic pulse) discharged in the focal point of the chinese spider mesh thing.
    (just kidding)

    1. Re:EMP by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 1

      Quit giving the terrorists ideas!!!!

      --
      Stop the world; I need to get off.
    2. Re:EMP by halfelven · · Score: 1

      Duh, dude, it's not like they're waiting for my "briliant genius" to supply them ideas.
      They've got ideas of their own, rest (un)assured. Sad but probably true.

    3. Re:EMP by cynicalmoose · · Score: 1

      That's how you do directional EMP. Do that, and bingo, you get an EMP reflection. Not total, though, so you better not have a mobile on you. Perhaps the best system would be a directional pringle can EMP, because if you make them right the beam becomes quite tight.

      --
      Exercise your right not to vote. thinkoutside.org
    4. Re:EMP by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      Just think what one could do with an emp blast aimed at the antenna...

  24. Re:Apple's had this for years by Fuzzle · · Score: 1

    But those cost more than a cheap router and some cookware. And aren't quite as geek cool.

  25. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by cbreaker · · Score: 1

    I've been having trouble getting an exact definition of Line of Sight. This means you have to actually be able to SEE the remote side with nothing in the way at all? I don't know how useful a 10km range is if you need that type of LoS.

    See, I'm trying to get a wireless connection to my friends network about three miles away, directly. We can't erect 100' towers so we're trying to figure out our options. We can mount the things on our roofs but we won't have direct line of sight (some trees, the curve of the earth, etc..) Do you have any idea? We'd like to do it for under a few hundred bucks each.

    Is there some sort of amplifier you can get? Maybe that with a directional antenna pointed at each other? I am not concerned about FCC regulations at this point.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  26. Re:Apple's had this for years by wankledot · · Score: 4, Interesting
    wtf are you talking about?

    The airport base station doesn't have a range anywhere NEAR 14km. There are lots of antenna out there for lots of base stations (including the Airport ones) that will give you that range, but Apple has not "had this for years" any more than every other vendor that sells products with the option of adding an antenna.

    Hell, Cisco has products that have 25 MILE ranges, with the right antenna.

    --
    My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
  27. One word by azav · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Chinese parabolic cookware"

    OMFG is that funny.

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
    1. Re:One word by bbdd · · Score: 1

      one of the pictures on the site calls it "wifry" :-)

    2. Re:One word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, that's three words.

  28. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by Cyclone66 · · Score: 1

    I believe in this case Line of Sight just means you need to point it at the transmitter, you don't actually have to see it.

  29. USB 802.11 dongles -- are any Linux friendly? by timothy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just took a long car trip, relying mostly on (purchased and municipally provided*) 802.11 access, and in preparation for that trip bought a highish-end 802.11 card and extrernal patch antenna, which indeed came in handy.

    I considered one of the USB 802.11 donglers, but passed on account of ignorance: Are any of them of Linux-friendly? Are some brands better than others? Can anyone provide reception figures or anecdotes?

    It certainly would be nice to have a rooftop mount on my station wagon to which I could as necessary string up a 15' USB cable and thumb-drive-style 802.11 thing :)

    timothy

    *Thanks, taxpayers and politicians of Salt Lake City!

    --
    jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
    1. Re:USB 802.11 dongles -- are any Linux friendly? by slandis · · Score: 2, Informative

      I use a Netgar MA111 USB wireless key in my Linux router. You need linux-wlan-ng, which provides the proper usb_prism2 drivers (and of course, working usb hardware).

      Works pretty dang well, probably better than the Windows setup.

      --
      BAM!
    2. Re:USB 802.11 dongles -- are any Linux friendly? by Hamstaus · · Score: 1

      Works pretty dang well, probably better than the Windows setup.

      What kind of comment is that? "probably better"? Have you ever used the Windows setup?

      I use Windows XP and a Linksys WPC54G. I plug it in and XP finds the drivers.

      Works pretty dang well, probably better than the Linux setup.

      --
      I moderate "-1, Fool"
    3. Re:USB 802.11 dongles -- are any Linux friendly? by lakeland · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've got one based on the atmel (at76c503_rfmd). It works pretty well. My only gripe is that even though it is open source, it isn't currently in the kernel so I have to recompile before every kernel upgrade.

      I've been using it to access my server at home because I'm too lazy to lay cable under the house.

    4. Re:USB 802.11 dongles -- are any Linux friendly? by iroczul8r · · Score: 1

      Perhaps what he meant was the connection worked better than the windows setup?

      Personal experience: I have a desktop with a pcmcia bridge for a wireless pcmcia card. With Windows, I was constantly having that stupid balloon popup tell me that my connection was available/unavaliable. Then, when the connection was available, transfer rates were "slow"...around 100 kbps. On the other hand, on the same machine in the same location connecting to the same server only minutes later, my Linux installation had no problem connecting to the access point (monitored with kwifimanager) and I had transfer rates upwards of 200 kbps. So take it for what it's worth...Linux works dang well for me and is "probably better."

    5. Re:USB 802.11 dongles -- are any Linux friendly? by Cyph · · Score: 1

      I use a D-Link DWL-122, works very well with linux-wlan-ng using the Prism 2 driver. Even worked on a Mac!

    6. Re:USB 802.11 dongles -- are any Linux friendly? by slandis · · Score: 1

      That's a statement that says "Under Windows, connections to either of my two access points, either of which are less than 50 feet away, drop spontaneously, and like today, the drivers stop functioning completely until I physically remove the USB key and re-insert it."

      I've never had these problems under Linux. Ever.

      I use XP daily. At work and at home. I have very few "luser" gripes. This just happens to be one of them.

      --
      BAM!
    7. Re:USB 802.11 dongles -- are any Linux friendly? by Sevn · · Score: 1

      Even worked on a Mac!

      They work friggin GREAT with KisMAC. Just don't try to use as an actual network device. The D-Link Drivers SUCK. Read all about it HERE

      --
      For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
  30. Shut up! Apple rules. Period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yes it does. I've been accessing my Apple base station sitting in my apartment in San Fran from where I work in Oakland for YEARS now. In fact, I even access my base station from AIRPLANES while flying overhead!!!! Apple is THAT GOOD! Obviously you don't use Apple so you wouldn't understand. So SHUT UP.

  31. Finally! by DoctorPepper · · Score: 1

    He got about 17 dB signal improvement for about US $5 in materials.

    I will finally get a good connection from the living room!

    --

    No matter where you go... there you are.
  32. Re:Shut up! Apple rules. Period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in the SF bay, what's your SSID? I find it hard to believe you get 14k without an external antenna.

  33. Please be aware of the regulations by Cthefuture · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Of course different areas have different rules, but just about everywhere there are restrictions on antenna gain and power for 802.11. Especially if you are not a licensed amateur radio operator.

    These things are unlicensed part 15 devices which have strict restrictions on power output (which includes any gain from directional antennas) and can not interfere with licensed devices like amateur radio operators.

    I'll leave it up to the reader to Google for what the limits are in your area since it varies. Just remember that you can't just slap on any super-high-gain antenna and remain legal.

    --
    The ratio of people to cake is too big
    1. Re:Please be aware of the regulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These things are unlicensed part 15 devices which have strict restrictions on power output (which includes any gain from directional antennas) and can not interfere with licensed devices like amateur radio operators.

      Yeah, gotta be careful. It would be like the end of the world if you ruined some nerd's epic QSL to Germany.

    2. Re:Please be aware of the regulations by havana9 · · Score: 1

      If you are a license amateur radio operator,
      you can use legally 802.11 in 13 cm ham radio
      band, with directional antennas. You can also
      build linear amplifier up to yor licensed maximum
      power.

      Of course you are limited to amateur radio regulations about allowed traffic, and to maximum
      EM field allowed.

    3. Re:Please be aware of the regulations by macmouse · · Score: 1

      As well as, the content regulations as well.
      I.E. No commercial traffic (uh... the majority of all websites one way or the other) and no profanity.

  34. Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by eggboard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not political dangers, not legal dangers, but health risks. This is an unshielded piece of metal that's surely producing signal all over the place. Wi-Fi is microwave radiation. While it's not a big deal for the tiny antennas in cards or bigger antennas that are found on access points, when you start boosting the gain and have directional focus, it's critical for your long-term well being to not spend extended periods of time (or, for higher-gain antennas, any time whatsoever) in the "blast" of the beam. There are well-documented health risks from microwave radiation exposure but only at high levels and short distances.

    Because this ad hoc device hasn't been checked out in any fashion, it's possible that even with it facing away from you, you could be subjecting yourself to cellular damage from the microwave radiation. I wouldn't recommend this. The cantenna design is much simpler and safer. Other ad hoc designs at least have parameters that prevent so much signal spew. This one worries me.

    --
    Freelance tech journalist for the Economist, MIT Technology Review, Macworld, and others
    1. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The limit for 802.11b is 100mW (0.1 Watts) of transmitted power. Even a cheapass microwave oven puts out 500+ Watts. There's probably more radiation coming at you due to leakage from the microwave oven than from this antenna, no matter how much gain it has.

    2. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      This is an unshielded piece of metal that's surely producing signal all over the place.

      That's why I always put a grounded wire-cage around all my antennas.

    3. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by Gaewyn+L+Knight · · Score: 5, Informative

      The device is putting out the radiation... No matter antenna you put on it you don't increase the output of the device. Now you do focus it into a much "hotter" spot when you make it directional. Even so though none of these devices are allowed to excede 1W of effective radiated power (No commercial consumer device currently excedes 250mw).

      To give you an example... You microwave uses 4000 times that much power to cook food with.

      I would imagine if you stood in the beam path of a 20+db antenna for a couple months you would have health issues... but you also wouldn't have a signal :}

      As health risks go a cell phone is a MUCH larger output of power and you stick it right next to your head. Worry about those first :}

      And FWIW cantennas are no better... most directional antennas send most of their power out the front but all of them have sidelobes.

      --
      Telcos have alot of dark fibre in the States. Most people assume that's optical fibre...but it's actually moral fibre.
    4. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by Sialagogue · · Score: 1


      Just so you don't feel alone - I get it, and it's funny. . .

      --
      The only acceptable defense of scientific results is to say that they were the product of the Scientific Method.
    5. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by jandrese · · Score: 2, Informative
      No commercial consumer device currently excedes 250mw
      What about those nutty 300mW Reliawave cards? Heck, they even sell access points with 15dBi omnis builtin.
      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    6. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by afidel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We had a really high gain 4 pannel style antenna at Cisco's wireless division and I can tell you that when that thing was being fed at 100mW that standing in front of it would warm you up. The radiated power was around 8W so it probably wasn't life threatening but I can tell you that I wasn't about to stand in front of it to find out.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    7. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by kencurry · · Score: 1

      no, the real danger from modified chinese cookware is you might get a headache from the MSG...

      --
      sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    8. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      You have *got* to be kidding me. You do realize that the worst radiation you are producing (and it's *not* much) is no worse than the radiation near the wireless adaptor without any Chinese cookware attached? And your laptop's wireless adaptor is pretty likely to sit right next to your testicles when it's on your lap, so if you're worried about this guy's project, you're most certainly already screwed.

      The guy isn't amplifying the signal. He's just directing it and filtering out outside crap.

    9. Re:Dangers of this kind of ad hoc device by mcsmurf · · Score: 1

      That's because a cell phone uses a different frequency range, that's the whole deal.

  35. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by Hamstaus · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, Line of Sight means a direct line from the transmitter to the receiver, with nothing in the way. Trees and vegetation really attenuate the signal, and buildings are almost impossible to get through with basic off-the-shelf wireless equipment. Some people have problems just getting a signal through to their basement.

    --
    I moderate "-1, Fool"
  36. For the freedom loving ppl of the world... by beta21 · · Score: 1

    that is:
    2.385 miles (4km)

    1. Re:For the freedom loving ppl of the world... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      For the freedom loving ppl of the world

      I was just thinking how much I could go for a nice batch of freedom fries right now.

  37. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Practically speaking, the two antennas have to see each other with very little obstruction. Some materials are transparent to RF but not to light. Therefore, you can get a signal through bricks and drywall. Stuff that contains steel (like office buildings) or water (like trees) is quite lossy.

    At three miles, you don't have to worry about the curve of the earth as long as your antenna is about six feet above ground level. Local topography has a much greater effect at that range.

    There are a couple of things you could try even if you can't get line of sight. The cheapest might be to use quite directive antennas and bounce the signal off a tall building. (This isn't quite like reflection. You are relying on metal objects to re-radiate your signal.) You could try some kind of TV booster amplifier (they are very broadband) and hope for some scattering but I think that the multipath interference would thwart you.

    The most reliable solution is to have a buddy in a tall building set up a link with each of you and do a relay.

    PS. Even if you aren't worried about the FCC, they will quickly find you if you cause interference. Forget the big power amplifier!

  38. Shouda used the Wok... by HaeMaker · · Score: 4, Funny

    If he is getting that kind of gain from the scooper, imagine if he used the wok...

    1. Re:Shouda used the Wok... by Cy+Guy · · Score: 1

      RTFA, at the end he discusses the use of a pressed steel Wok, he thinks it would work pretty good.

      The drawback is that unlike the scoop, the wok is not normally designed to performs its typical function with a half inch by 2mm slot cut into for the USB jack to be fitted through. So if you convert a wok to this purpose it's kind of a one way transformation. Now those brushed aluminum wok lids with screwed on handles in the middle might be a different story.

  39. Re:Shut up! Apple rules. Period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any particular reason you're so touchy?

  40. Re:Apple's had this for years by Nintendork · · Score: 1
    Link please. The most I can find is their Airport Extreme (God I hate that word) and 3rd party antennas that give relatively low dB improvement.

    -Lucas

  41. Re:Apple's had this for years by foo12 · · Score: 1

    What? No way.... with my airport I can't a signal in the park across the street, much less 14 km

  42. Re:Shut up! Apple rules. Period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in the SF bay

    Are you a fish? Doesn't it get cold out there?
    And, what kind of waterproofing do you use for your system?

  43. Stupid Question: Does WAP Need Boosted Signal Too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, I guess I don't understand how wireless works.... obviously a laptop with this setup can transmit signals farther, but how does it receive a WAP's relatively weak signal? Wouldn't the WAP need to boost its output in order to reach something 4 km away?

  44. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by nsayer · · Score: 1

    Not only do you need to be able to see the receiver for line-of-site, but you actually need to have a sort of cigar or sausage-shape area, with the diameter at the center being measured in meters, with no obstructions. That is, merely being able to spot the receiver through the gap between a couple of tree branches won't do.

  45. I seriously hope... by swaic · · Score: 2, Funny


    That this guy kept the other $145 he saved from building his own antenna because he's definitely gonna need it to pay his web host.
    I have the site saved, so anyone want to host a mirror, let me know..

  46. Re:Apple's had this for years by Alystair · · Score: 1

    Could you point me to what combo cisco product/antenna would give me a 25 mile range spot? I'm interested.

  47. But pringles cantennas don't work... by B747SP · · Score: 1
    I'm convinced that Pringles can antennas are an uban myth. First up, the cans are made of cardboard, and aren't reflective. Second, they're the wrong size for 2.4GHz. All you actually get is a mismatched-for-size flat metal plate that will offer some vague semblance of directionality, but if anything, a pringles 'can' is going to work as an attenuator, not a waveguide.

    Still, placebos work on a substantial portion of folks, so if you feel that your pringles can antenna works for you, far be it from me to tell you otherwise.

    For something that actually *does* work, have a look at Super Cantenna --- that one *is* the right size for 2.4GHZ, and it *is* reflective, and it *is* a waveguide and it *does* work. USD$20 for an actual tuned waveguide antenna beats a cardboard tube laced with monosodium glutamate anyday!

    --
    I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    1. Re:But pringles cantennas don't work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that the pringles cans had a sort of metalic coating on the inside?

    2. Re:But pringles cantennas don't work... by afidel · · Score: 1

      Umm, Pringles cans are coated internally with an aluminium paint so they ARE reflective. Btw the origional source for most people hearing about Pringles antenna's was this PBS article.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:But pringles cantennas don't work... by PurpleFloyd · · Score: 1
      Urban myth? Look here. 12dB gain is hardly an urban myth.

      The difference between your speculations and reality is that "Pringles cantennas" simply use the Pringles can as a housing for a "shotgun" Yagi antenna. Anything which relies solely on the Pringles can will do a whole lot of nothing, but it's possible to use several different varieties of ordinary cans (Pringles, beef soup, etc) to house a good antenna.

      While it's certainly better for anyone just looking for gain without any hassle to get a premanufactured product like the Super Cantenna, a large part of geekdom is the ability (or at least desire) to MacGyver things like a high-gain directional antenna from parts obtained at the hardware and grocery stores. Believe it or not, some people would rather spend 20 hours and $50 designing, building, tuning and tweaking an antenna rather than simply dropping $20 on a premanufactured one. Some people would simply rather do things themselves.

      --

      That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
    4. Re:But pringles cantennas don't work... by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      The inside of pringles cans are aluminized, thus reflective.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    5. Re:But pringles cantennas don't work... by kju · · Score: 1

      > 12dB gain is hardly an urban myth.

      Oh yes, the 12dB gain IS an myth. Just looking at Signal-Noise-Ratio and Signal Levels is absolute inaccurate and does tell next to nothing. If you really want to check the gain of an antenne you would need to do this with professional equipment, an reference antenna and other expensive stuff. I remotely remember having read a professional test of the pringles cantenna and the results were rather disappointing.

      Additional the pringles design is neither an real waveguide nor an real yagi. Its an beast between and this is too not an guarantee for good results. It was designed by idiots who don't have any knowledge of HF and antenne design. Yes, it might work, but a good designed antenne will work much much better.

  48. No, there's something called a "Link Budget." by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

    For any wireless signal, you have a series of variables that you juggle to figure out what the maximum distance is. I don't have the formula with me to tell you exactly what it is, and I haven't done anything with it for about two years.

    To sum up, you can either boost the transmitting or receiving antenna gain in order to improve the distance. You can also move one or both of the antennae up - the higher up they are, the further the range.

    In theory, you'd think that you could read any signal with a big enough gain, but that's not the case. If you have more than about 40 dB of gain, you'll get a lot of feedback.

    --

    ---
    ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    1. Re:No, there's something called a "Link Budget." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



      Link budget calculator here:

      Wireless Network Link Analysis

    2. Re:No, there's something called a "Link Budget." by Gleapsite · · Score: 1

      If you have more than about 40 dB of gain, you'll get a lot of feedback.


      Actually, you're just picking up the unprotected brainwaves of those around you.

      --
      face the world with eyes of fire.
  49. One problem with Chinese cookware antennas... by teamhasnoi · · Score: 5, Funny

    Once you've connected to the network, you'll just need to connect again in an hour or two.

  50. One word... by B747SP · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Bluejack

    I already built one of these things after the site first surfaced a couple of weeks ago. The neat thing about it is that it's modular insofar as your choice of radio goes. Unplug the 802.11b tranceiver, replace it with a usb Bluetooth tranceiver, aim at the nearest bus stop, and wa-la, bluejack city. Want to use 802.11g, or heaven forbid, 802.11a, plug one in! It's the ultimate in modular l33+ hax0r radio toys. Why, I reckon you could even plug an usb IrDA adaptor in there...

    No, wait... :-)

    --
    I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    1. Re:One word... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "wa-la?" I believe thats "voila"

    2. Re:One word... by cujo_1111 · · Score: 1

      Or 'viola' to the illerate /. crowd...

      --
      If I point out that you are incorrect, making me a foe does not make you any more correct.
  51. usb + dish network dish? by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Since old dishes are about free, how about replacing the LNA with one of those same sort of external wifi transceivers?

    Anyone try such a thing?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:usb + dish network dish? by satterth · · Score: 1
      There are a few different way to go about the satellite dish antenna. Here are two

      Satellite dish and a can or Satellite dish and a Bi Quad

      --
      Being called a dork on Slashdot must be like being called the retard in special ed.
    2. Re:usb + dish network dish? by Sjobeck · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I think it is not that people do not understand the right to bear arms, I think that they understand that that was a differnet era, a diffrent world, they were not talking about machine guns, they were not dealing with a death rate many many multiples higher than any other country in the world, etc, etc, etc, etc when that was written. I think people are only asking, hey, look, we all need to interpret the writing, let us interpret it for today where we can have a balance. As is the NRA is far too powerful. Corporations, not just manufacturers in the blood sports industry, but all corporations are far too powerful. And, last, I (and here is where I will chime in personally with my own opinion) do give a rat's ass about anything other than the fact that what we have right now, is not working, it is borken, it needs changing, there are simply far far too many dead people from guns in this country, that is all there is to it. Who would not want to sit down and discuss how to fix that. There are simply too many dead poeple in this country. Period. Why? Let's find out why?

  52. there's an obvious limit to gain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You cannot receive more power than was sent. So there is a clear limit to gain.

  53. Kind of... by mindstrm · · Score: 2, Informative

    Snipped from some site:

    The FCC regulations for Point to Multi-Point allows only 36 dBm (4 watts) EIRP. This is 30 dBm (1 watt) into a 6 dBi antenna. If you use a 10 dBi wireless antenna, you must limit your transmitter (or amplifier) to 26 dBm (10 + 26 = 36 dBm). For a 14 dBi panel wireless antenna, this allows a 22 dBm transmitter (or amplifier).

    According to FCC regulations, 2.4 GHz Part 15.247 point-to-point transmitters may use a 30 dBm transmitter with a 6 dBi antenna. For a 3 dB increase in antenna gain, the transmitter power output must be reduced by 1 dB.

    My comments below:

    In Canada:
    The maximum EIRP is 4 Watts for both point-to-point and multi-point networks with a maximum of 1 watt from the transmitter.

    Meaning:

    In the US, Point to point links have a distinct advantage.

  54. It's not $5.00, even in your money... by B747SP · · Score: 4, Informative
    As I said already, I built one of these already. My shopping list ran to a bit more than $5.00 though....

    • One 13 inch (the biggest one they had, basically!!!) Dumpling scoop thing from the 'Thai Kee' (chinese, not Thai!) supermarket on level 1 on the Market City shopping centre in Sydney's (Australia) chinatown. Turn right when you enter the shop, they're at the far end of the right-most aisle - AUD$15.85
    • One Netgear MA111 USB/802.11b adaptor from Dan at http://www.usbtech.com.au/ - AUD$69.00
    • One plastic hose joiner thing from Bunnings Hardware (Bunnings == direct copy of Home Depot) - AUD$0.80
    • One adhesive band-aid strip, to cover the gouge I put in my finger trying to cut the hose joiner up the side - AUD$0.00 (stolen from the office medical cabinet)

    I didn't shop around for best price, etc, etc, 'cos I knew that once this thing hit slashdot, there was gonna be a worldwide stockout on the chinese cookware. I could have gotten things a bit cheaper if I had shopped around, but short of an AUD$1200+ aeroplane ticket to Guangzhou and buying direct from manufacturers, there was no way this setup would cost $5.00 of anyone's money. With time and petrol and driving around, I guess it cost AUD$100.00. Good fun tho, and worth every cent.

    --
    I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    1. Re:It's not $5.00, even in your money... by B747SP · · Score: 1

      Oh, and one copy of Netstumbler 0.4 (just released!) from http://www.netstumbler.com/. $0.00. Netstumbler works fine with the Netgear MA111 adaptor. I haven't tried it with the BSD scanning tools yet.

      --
      I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    2. Re:It's not $5.00, even in your money... by yppiz · · Score: 1
      $5 is only possible if the author didn't count the cost of the parts (yes, I'm too lazy to read the article).

      Anyhow, I have him beat.

      I built a cardboard and tinfoil microwave horn antenna. Construction was incredibly simple, and the design is robust. I get 16dB of gain over an Orinoco wireless card when I hook up the antenna (which probably means 18-19dB of antenna gain, assuming that the card's built-in antenna gets 2-3dB).

      I found a design on the net, learned enough microwave theory to make sure I knew which measurements had to be particularly good, and which ones didn't matter as much, and built it in a weekend.

      The only part I had to purchase was a pigtail connector for the Orinoco card, and I think that was $20.

      I was able to establish a link across a seriously cluttered and heavily WiFi enabled San Francisco skyline to an open access point 8 miles away (from 5th and Howard to the BARWN access point on Mt. San Bruno).

      --Pat / zippy@cs.brandeis.edu

    3. Re:It's not $5.00, even in your money... by FFFish · · Score: 1

      Score: -1, Pedantic

      --

      --
      Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
    4. Re:It's not $5.00, even in your money... by Weissmohr · · Score: 1

      Of course, you only paid $20 _in_addition_to_the_cost_of_the_Orinoco_.

      Orinoco + coaxial cable + antenna, or USB WIFI dongle + USB cable + antenna. If you already had the Orinoco, then that's your legacy problem, not mine. You still had to pay for it at some point, though :-)

      Here in Norway the latter seems to come out at less than half the cost. I find no WIFI thingies cheaper than the USB ones, and USB cable costs about 1/10 of coaxial cable. And everything has USB these days.

      All in all I think this is a really cool idea.

    5. Re:It's not $5.00, even in your money... by yppiz · · Score: 1

      Of course it's a cool idea. I'm just using the same accounting that the article uses (that is, only counting the cost of the antenna).

      In my case, I could have used the USB solution and placed the USB transceiver in the microwave horn. The antenna doesn't care whether I'm using an Orinoco card or not, just that the source of the signal is at the right place.

      --Pat

  55. Universal Prayer by AgentPhunk · · Score: 1
    We can, its easy. You just need to say the Universal Prayer:

    "Please Lord, Bend all known laws of Existence for my convenience. Amen."

    I usually say the U.P. before major router upgrades, or other potential risky feats of Network (or System) engineering. So far so goo%*(S*(ASDF NO CARRIER

  56. How About an Old Satellite Dish by JMcJames · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Would an old satellite dish work for this? I notice that DirecTV dishes are quite shallow, so would this be a problem.

    You can get a used DirecTV dish pretty cheap.

    1. Re:How About an Old Satellite Dish by Scrooge919 · · Score: 1

      Forget that! Get one of those old school 6-foot dishes... I wonder what the gain on that puppy would be! :)

    2. Re:How About an Old Satellite Dish by k3v0 · · Score: 1
  57. Re:there's an obvious limit to gain - Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's true that you can't get more power at the receiver than you sent. That's not what gain describes though.

    When you are talking about antennas, gain describes how your antenna compares to a reference antenna. For a transmitting antenna, the reference antenna is an isotropic radiator. For a receiving antenna, the reference antenna is a dipole.

    IN THEORY, an infinitely large antenna focused at infinity has infinite gain! (The antenna has to be that large to create a beam width of zero degrees.) The signal strength from an isotropic radiator is zero at infinity. If my infinitely large antenna will produce a finite signal strength at infinity then my gain is infinite.

  58. Re:Apple's had this for years by CRC'99 · · Score: 1

    The most I can find is their Airport Extreme (God I hate that word)

    Yes, Apple is indeed a dirty word.

    --
    Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
  59. Re:Shut up! Apple rules. Period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The SSID is YHBT_YHL_HAND.

  60. Re:Shut up! Apple rules. Period. by pi42 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Actually, a lot of products have really long ranges -- right out of the box! I got a Linksys WiFi router and it seems like I can pick up my SSID "linksys" network all over the place!

    Heh heh..

  61. Syntax USB-400 802.11b USB Dongle by Brian+Ristuccia · · Score: 1

    It's based on the prism chipset, for which a variety of excellent Free Software drivers are available. Heck, you can even run an access point or WDS repeater with this dongle... See http://hostap.epitest.fi/ for more information.

  62. Little brain seeks big brain. by WinterpegCanuck · · Score: 2
    This may seem redundant, but could you find an antenna with a relatively narrow scope and use it in wardriving to try and triangulate the source based on signal strength? Obviously this is a yes if you are within the designed range of what you are detecting, for arguments sake, 2Km, but could you communicate with a network 4km away if only your antenna was suped up?

    I am sure someone has written an app to detect incomming signal strength almost akin to passive sonar, but would you actually be able to create a two way connection?

  63. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 1

    Is there a water tower or some other large structure you can bounce a signal off of?

    --
    Stop the world; I need to get off.
  64. Re:Apple's had this for years by afidel · · Score: 1

    Sure, two Cisco BR350 series bridges with the 21dBi dish style antenna's. Cisco doesn't sell it certified for more than 15(?) miles or so because to get longer you have to get a high tower to overcome curvature of earth issues. Legally you can't go over 20 miles without going over ERP limits but you CAN run them at 100mW and get significantly more than 35 miles. You can download their calculator here, the last worksheet is the old calculator which will allow you to do all sorts of calculations which aren't necessarily withing regulations.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  65. Couldnt find anything on the power consumption? by CrystalChronicles · · Score: 1

    How much roughly would it go up by doing this mod?

    If I do this mod I 'd make sure I unplug it before I leave the house. I wouldnt want it connected during a thunderstorm.

  66. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by cbreaker · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, not really =( There's a lot of trees. On the good side, there's a country club and a park between us, so there's a lot of empty fields. On the bad side, the trees are very tall and there's a hill near my friends' house that's pretty tall.

    I don't know if there's much I can do in this situation.

    If there were a commercial product with a resonable price I'd consider it.. but the few that I've looked at cost over $1,000 on each end for both the box and the antenna.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  67. Re:Apple's had this for years by wankledot · · Score: 1

    Looks like someone else pointed you at the right gear, the 350 bridge + dish will cover 25 miles without a problem as long as you have excellent line of sight and good elevation on both ends.

    --
    My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
  68. Because Scotty said so... by pelrun · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Ye cannae change the laws of physics, laws of physics, laws of physics. Ye cannae change the laws of physics, laws of physics, Jim."

    And who are we to argue? :)

  69. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by rcw-home · · Score: 1
    See, I'm trying to get a wireless connection to my friends network about three miles away, directly. We can't erect 100' towers so we're trying to figure out our options. We can mount the things on our roofs but we won't have direct line of sight (some trees, the curve of the earth, etc..)

    You won't be able to make this work at microwave frequencies. Directional antennas and amps simply won't help. UHF or VHF frequencies might work, however the lower the frequency you use, the more precious (and scarce) the bandwidth becomes.

    Once the FCC's new vision for reusing TV channel bandwidth for wireless networking becomes reality, you'll be able to buy equipment that will probably do 3 miles via ground wave propagation just fine.

    In the meantime, your options are very limited. You could buy two old Metricom Ricochet modems and run PPP between them (slow!). Since you said you don't care about the FCC, you could build your own equipment, but if you knew how to do that you probably wouldn't have asked us. If the two buildings can see a common point, perhaps you could place a solar/battery-powered wireless repeater there.

    Or, do what everyone else does and set up an IPSec tunnel over the Internet.

  70. Re:Apple's had this for years by wankledot · · Score: 1
    Cisco advertises 25 miles at legal power limits, and I haven't heard of them not certifying it for that length. I think it depends on the partner you work with, my training has been that 25 miles is something we can offer. The data rate will drop at that point, 11Mb is only good for under 20, but you can stay under 26dBm EIRP at 25+ miles. In a perfect world, of course.

    I work as a systems engineer for a cisco partner, I really hope we land a long range bridge project. Aligning bridges at 20 miles sounds like it would be a fun challenge.

    --
    My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
  71. another more compleate mirror by lart2150 · · Score: 1

    i'm working on a more compleate mirror. I allready have more and it's going to 500B/s http://defragfourms.cti.depaul.edu/www.usbwifi.orc on.net.nz/

  72. Now a bunch of those antennae... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you could get a series of those antennae going within range of each other so they could do relay/boosting you might build yourself a nice little community wifi network.

    Get a cell phone to link into that network and use VoIP and you got yourself a nice lil commodity. Hell, who wouldn't love to drop the uncalled for high rates of cell phones and benefit from VoIP cell phone calls from WiFi?!

    Of course then the group of major cell companies that own the FCC would lobby to take away freedom from creativity...but it could be a fun project for a geek with the time and money. Unless you live in a country not as fucked as America.

  73. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by cbreaker · · Score: 1

    Yea, we have an openvpn over the internet now. But cablemodems are so dismal with their upstream (256k) and we'd like to achieve better speeds then that. We don't need 54 mbits, 2 would be great.

    Well, thanks for the info. We're going to keep looking and maybe we'll find something that might work. I need to get on the roof and see if we have any common points we could maybe use.

    Boy, if you live in the city I bet this is easy shmeezy.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  74. vs commercial antennas by po8 · · Score: 2, Informative

    As cool as this antenna is, it isn't very expensive to buy a nice prebuilt wireless antenna these days. Pacific Wireless dishes, for example, are about US$50 for 19dBi or $70 for 24dBi. I've used their products, and they are very nice. I've given up on building 802.11 antennas: it's too much work vs the cheap commercial antennas for me.

    1. Re:vs commercial antennas by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Really, though, it's infinitely neater to have your ultra-modern bleeding-edge geek network constructed out of ancient Chinese cooking gear.

  75. WiFi antennas don't affect the Link Budget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually your RF link budget is the reason that adding a signal booster to your access point doesn't alway get you as much of a range improvement as you'd expect (it only helps performance in one direction)

    Using high-gain directional antennas/woks/pringles cans/whatever is a vastly better solution for range-extension, since it enhances communications in both directions. Although aiming a high gain antenna at *just* the right spot over a large distance can be an exercise in frustration.

  76. Re:WTF OMG LOL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    Fuck you. What the fuck is up with these Chinese food jokes? It seems every story there is one where some fucktard says "...you'll need to do it again in an hour". It's not fucking funny. Do us all a favor and stab yourself in the face. Thanks for playing, fuck you!

    You are aware, I assume, that, an hour later, he'll just have to stab himself in the face again.

  77. Modularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Nice point about the modularity, but if you did want to swap 802.11b for a 802.11a transciever you'd need to change the design as the frequency (and hence wavelength) is different.

    1. Re:Modularity by pe1rxq · · Score: 1

      The design of a prime focus dish doesn't change much for different frequencies...
      You might need to have a finer mesh though...

      Jeroen

      --
      Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
    2. Re:Modularity by outofpaper · · Score: 1

      This dosn't depend as mutch on the wavelenth as other antenie due to the fact that it is a siple parabola. YOU CAN USE IT TO EVEN FOCUS LIGHT.

  78. Re:there's an obvious limit to gain - Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope wrong again...

    Gain wrt an isotropic antenna: dBi
    Gain wrt a dipole antenna: dBd

    Whether they are RX or TX has nothing to do with it.

  79. Re: Cantenna by tcgroat · · Score: 1

    The "Cantenna" I know was sold by Heathkit. The impedance match at 2.4GHz is poor, and the gain stinks--the signal is about what you'd expect from coax cable leakage. But it can handle 1KW if the duty cycle is reasonable, and it really reduces the likelihood that anybody will intercept your data.

  80. So what's to stop you... by HerbanLegend · · Score: 1
    Now, I know that it's ILLEGAL, but what's to stop you from simply using a cantenna or similar device and hooking it up to a simple amplifier? It seems to me that decent gain combined with higher wattage would equal better signal strength, even with a less-than-perfect LOS.

    Or - use a fast pulse-forming network to blast the signal out of an old primestar dish at 1 kW!

    (Like the folks at Voltage Labs)

    1. Re:So what's to stop you... by lommer · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's nothing stopping you (if you leave out the legal), but it wouldn't be all that useful. While an amplifier would boost your output, it will do nearly nothing to increase the signal that you recieve i.e. you will be speaking louder but the person talking to you will still be speaking at the same volume. You may well ask then how an antenna's gain works out overall then, as you are still basically just boosting the wattage of your signal, not the other guy's. The answer there comes from the directionality of the antenna - while the other guy isn't speaking any louder the directional antenna allows you to filter out the noise coming from everywhere else, making it easier to hear what he's saying. Thus with a directional antenna, you're getting two good effects, while with the amp you're really only getting one. Now, OTOH, if you stuck an amp on your rig AND the other guy's rig, then you'd be talking :-)

  81. It's certainly illegal all across Europe. by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 1

    100mW eirp is all that's allowed. This limits the maximum legal range to around 2, 2.5km.

    Or I suppose there's the possibility of using different antennas for transmitting and receiving; Parabolic receiver and an omni transmitter.

    --
    Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
  82. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by julesh · · Score: 1

    Damn it! Does this mean this situation is impossible to get an 802.11 signal through?

    - Two houses, separated by a distance of roughly 50 metres
    - One intervening house in the direct route seems to completely block any signal
    - There is line of sight from the garden of one to the garden of the other, but:
    - there are intervening trees
    - approximately 5m of cable would be required on one end of the signal
    - approximately 1m of cable would be required on the other

    I've tried experimenting with directional antennae (of the traditional pringles-tube design) with no luck, but so far haven't invested in any low-attenuation cable for the project (was using old 10Base-2 ethernet cable as a proof-of-concept).

    I don't mind what the reception quality's like, as long as it works (1Mb/s is more than adequate for the application I had in mind).

    Any suggestions? Would bouncing the signal off the row of houses opposite (adding about 60m to the signal path, but substantially reducing the volume of tree involved) help? Would passing traffic cause packet loss? Is there another way?

    Would really appreciate any help offered :)

  83. Hey I know that guy... by OrangeNZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't believe it! I work at the chain (DSE - dse.co.nz) that the mentioned WiFi adaptor came from (It's a Zydas that we rebrand).. In fact, I work at the branch on Vivian St, Wellington where Stan (one of the guys involved) actually bought those.. One of our best customers.

    Never thought I'd see something local on /. :)

    1. Re:Hey I know that guy... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      You're about to sell a whole hell of a lot more.

    2. Re:Hey I know that guy... by OrangeNZ · · Score: 1

      Actually we're not. He bought the last 10. It's an end-of-line product :)

      We'll have another different model at the same price soon thought, I guess.

  84. Re:WTF OMG LOL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now THAT is funny!

  85. Interesting thought? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, so I live in an area with very poor mobile phone reception.

    Would this work with my mobile phone - if i made a cradle for it to sit at the focal point of the antenna, looking out of the window somewhere? Using my bluetooth headset to make calls?

    That would be very useful.

    1. Re:Interesting thought? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try a corner antenna if your mobil is in the 800 mhz band.google for plans . cheers from nz.

  86. This direction only, please by Vreejack · · Score: 1

    Changing the directionality can also be useful in _reducing_ gain for unwanted signals. Some other wireless source is walking all over my household bandwidth at intermittent and invariably inconvenient times. I suspect a telephone. Perhaps one of these antennas will help.

    --
    "Will future ages believe that such stupid bigotry ever existed!" -- Ivanhoe
  87. Nepalese yak farmers by eetiiyupy · · Score: 1

    ... seem to have this type of technology sorted (link includes nice photo of mountain range).

  88. Woktenna by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I was involved with the installation and testing of the woktenna. This is the dish style antenna on the wifi site (I took the picture of it on the pole on the roof), NOT the skimmer one. I note the author of that site has made his own woktenna since. I have also got other close up pictures of it (if they are needed). Three other miscreants are involved with this plot :)

    A few stats:

    The antenna has a biquad element mounted at the focal point of the dish, and the biquad element does not have the backplane reflector installed; just the 'bow-tie'. It is soldered directly to the cable connector via copper tubing, which is mounted in a hole at the back of the wok.

    The distance this is currently working at is around 4 or 5 kilometers (have not tested further yet). Connections are a uniform 11mbit, and throughput (FTP) to the acess point FTP is 600 kilobytes a second or more. Ping times of less than 5ms. Netstumbler reports a SNR of around 27, signal strength at the AP is around -90dB. The wifi card in use is a Dick Smiths (www.dse.co.nz) xh8135. IIRC, some 35mW.

    Previous aerials at the site included a ~15 - ~17dB BiQuad, and a Helical of simular gain mounted around 2 meters up from the roof of the house, and some 10 meters of 0.1dB/meter loss coax. The sigal with the helical was unusable - often dropping out. The Biquad was better, but only providing about 30k/sec throughput (signal strength about -98 - -99dB).

    The Wok was fantastically better.

    *I* currently use a short helical, and am perhaps 2km from the AP; I get maybe 550k/sec throughput. Both of us have line of sight.

    We are all part of the wifi proto-network at http://www.oamaruwireless.com.

  89. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by mpe · · Score: 1

    Once the FCC's new vision for reusing TV channel bandwidth for wireless networking becomes reality, you'll be able to buy equipment that will probably do 3 miles via ground wave propagation just fine.

    Though cables and pipes through the ground will not help matters... There is also the issue protection against lightning or faulty power cables.

  90. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by mpe · · Score: 1

    Practically speaking, the two antennas have to see each other with very little obstruction. Some materials are transparent to RF but not to light. Therefore, you can get a signal through bricks and drywall. Stuff that contains steel (like office buildings) or water (like trees) is quite lossy.

    With bricks or blocks it depends very much on the brick/block in question. Also drywall partitions can use steel (rather than wood) framing. The only real option is to try and see if it works or not.

  91. Shouldnt respond.. but by nurb432 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Just one comment.. Before you start tossing the 'too many people killed with guns', please keep in mind that the majority of people that are killed by guns are either:

    A - Legally possessed and used in self-defense
    B - Illegally possessed and used in a crime.

    So changing the law-of-the-land would only prevent the honest citizen from exercising the *right* to defend themselves. It wont prevent criminals from doing harm as by definition they don't care about the law.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  92. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by div_2n · · Score: 1

    Line of sight - It is not just sight as in if you shot a laser beam it would hit the target. Rather, it is defined by the clarity of the Fresnel Zone. Radio waves do not travel like a laser beam as they are in a "wave" pattern.

    There exists an area above and below the straight line between two points that cannot have excessive blockage. The shape to imagine is like an eye as it tapers down on the two end points and gets very big in the middle.

    For short distances, this isn't significant. It is when you start breaking the half-mile to a mile range that it gets interesting.

    I remember that there used to be a calculator somewhere on Cisco's website that would calculate the size of the Fresnel Zone based on distance (it grows), but I am too lazy to look it up.

  93. Slashdot results by WhyPush · · Score: 1

    Yesterday's hit tally on the secondary site: 26 May, Wed 43438

  94. USB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    now if only i could douple the data capacity of
    my USB mem-stick with the wok ...

  95. Re:there's an obvious limit to gain - Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, what is the effective area of an isotropic antenna? It's zero. Therefore, an isotropic antenna cannot be a RX antenna since it would receive no signal.

    An RX antenna gets gain by having greater effective area. It doesn't get gain by being directional (In the case of an RX antenna, its directional characteristics are all about S/N ratio). A TX antenna gets gain ONLY by being directional.

    It does indeed matter if they are RX or TX.

  96. Re:Shut up! Apple rules. Period. by mebob · · Score: 1

    LOL, I can see your network right now... nice porn btw. I also see "airport" wonder if thats his?

    --
    =1000101
  97. Three Words by warlockgs · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yan Can LAN!

  98. Re:Line of sight? Help me out here. by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 1

    Cringely got his wi-fi bounce past a mountain. If the hill near your friend's house is high enough, and the owners are agreeable you might be able to do something like he did.

    Here's a low-tech non-clickable link. Check out the "Links of the week" in this article for the design guides he used.

    http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit2002020 7. html

    --
    Stop the world; I need to get off.
  99. Ancient Chinese Signalling Equipment by MMHere · · Score: 1

    Those aren't pieces of "Chinese parabolic cookware," as the author describes.

    They are ancient Ming Dynasty era signalling devices created by unusual wizards. Dontcha know the Chinese invented everything first?

    They were used to signal the mother planet before knowledge of their operation was lost through the depths of time.

    They were simply designed to resemble cookware in order to protect the important secret from marauding barbarians.

  100. not just for wifi.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I placed my cell-phone at the focal point and orient in the right direction - I now get cell service in the concrete bunker of a building that I work in.

    I see about a 10-20% increase in signal strength. Need a beter way to hold phone in focal point - currently using a specially configured coat-hanger.

    in case you worry about practicality - I have a t68i so I can leave the phone in the dish and communicate via bluetooth - ie I don't have parabolic cookware/coat hangers sprouting from my head.