No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

dncsky1530 writes "In a previous Slashdot story, the Denver Post ran an article talking about a portable music player that would have the look and feel of an iPod. Microsoft stated that they will not be manufactoring such a device, Mehdi, "I've spent time with a bunch of hardware manufacturers who will launch hardware products when we ship our service that will look and feel as good as the iPod product. And they will undoubtedly be a little bit less expensive and so head-to-head against Apple...""

Comments

50 for the player, but probably

[rd4tech]

40$ one time activation fee
5$ monthly subscribtion fee
2$ download access fee
15$ remote assistance fee
5$ for a special software player with XP look ...

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[CountBrass]

And the kicker? You have to re-activate it if you plug in a different set of headphones.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[DoctorDeath]

Don't forget the $100 it will cost you to upgrade to version1.2

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[bogie]

So let me guess. You didn't read the article? You skimmed it saw "$50" and "Microsoft" in the title and you figured you just do some Trolling.

Well don't feel bad. The three other people here who have already replied to you didn't read it either. They just thought they'd spout off and rag on Microsoft for a product that the f**king headling clearly states isn't even in developement.

You know, I don't like Microsoft. I REALLY don't the shit they've pulled in the past and the FUD they continue to spew. But if your going to Troll them at least reading the entire headline before you post. It will keep you from looking like idiots.

Oh and the mod who had it modded Insiteful before. Bravo.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[rd4tech]

If you had READ the article you would have also read it states:

The Microsoft-branded devices will "look and feel" as good as the iPod for as little as $50,

That validates my joking about there possibly being additional costs.
Don't be so triiger happy, first do try go grasp what others are trying to say.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[DoctorDeath]

Reading is a lost art. Why bother reading when someone else will read it and tell you what your opinion should be?

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[Anonymous Coward]

Has it ever occured to you that he was making a joke? Fucktard.

I think we all know who the real troll here is.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[hajihill]

Well I have to be able to write at least, so then I can post in disagreement with the opinion about the stuff I never read... right? ;-)

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[GregChant]

So what you're saying is... reading is bad? That's the type of fuel I need to get out of this week's reading assignment; I knew my teachers were wrong! Thanks guy!

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[DoctorDeath]

Sure, they should have read it already (not that they actually have, just should have). Let them "teach" you what it is about.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[Vacuous]

And that still makes it far, far cheaper than an ipod.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[Vacuous]

And despite all of that, it is still far, far, cheaper than an ipod.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[DA-MAN]

I believe Apple has the monopoly on charging $100 for minor upgrades, ala OSX.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[Anonymous Coward]

being sued by mastercard: PRICELESS

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[Anonymous Coward]

...having to re-encode your entire music collection into wma format: priceless.

There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there's Microsoft.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[rice_burners_suck]

40$ one time activation fee
5$ monthly subscribtion fee
2$ download access fee
15$ remote assistance fee
5$ for a special software player with XP look ...
Illegally downloaded MP3s, free.
Paying the RIAA every last dime you have as a settlement, priceless.

For everything else, there's MasterCard.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[NullPhi]

meh, I think I'll bite... the "minor" upgrades for OSX do more than a major update of windoze.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[MesiahTaz]

Panther was a minor upgrade?
What are you talking about? Troll.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[weapon]

or they could do it like you get mobile phone:
$50 upfront
$50 per month
plus cost of music
you can only get music from Microsoft
only works with XP pro
the player remains property of Microsoft

Dave

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[mattyrobinson69]

you forgot that it will phone home every time you walk past a telephone pole

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but most Operating Systems wouldnt call them upgrades. They'd be service packs and free!

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[Anonymous Coward]

Panther was a minor upgrade?

Your right, it was a minor downgrade. Half the shit that worked in the previous version needed to be rereleased. Hell Cisco's VPN client doesn't even work right in Panther.

Re:50 for the player, but probably

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had READ the article, you would realize that that quote was from a previous article, and they were stating that it was incorrect.

Don't be so triiger happy, first do try go grasp what others are trying to say. What a very accurate s

That would still be $150

[bwoodring]

which would be a hell of a deal for a HDD based iPod clone.

I have a distinct feeling...

[InternationalCow]

That this thing will be: 1. Ugly; 2. Have a clunky interface with lots of glitz and glitter; 3. Play WMA only; 4. Require XP; 5. Have limited hard drive capacity; 6. Run Pocketwindows and crash regularly; 7. Have its own host of viruses within half a year; 8. Still sell like crazy because for some reason people seem to prefer mediocre crap as long as it is cheap and runs windows Let's hope I'm wrong, I have an iPod and rather enjoy having something made by Apple be mainstream for a change :)

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't understand, they said they will not manufacture such a device, so any speculation how bad it is (because it comes from MS - as if everything from MS was bad) is quite useless, my dear.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a distinct feeling that you are an Apple zealot.

Could you please name just one player today that supports only WMA? If not, what makes you think that they will suddenly start appearing?

Perhaps you missed the point of this article, which is that Microsoft WILL NOT be making these devices.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[jomas1]

I don't think you realize that the linked story tells us that Microsoft is not making an Ipod clone at all.

Peter Rojas tells us that

"[Yusef Mehdi of MSN] doesn’t say that they’ll be Microsoft-branded players or that they’ll be making the players themsevles, and he doesn’t say that they’ll have a $50 iPod clone, just that there will be “little ones that cost 50 bucks and you can go running with.” http://www.engadget.com/entry/3463715371535682/

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[jomas1]

Damn my post did not look like that when I previewed it.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

And it will come pre-instaled in a pocked of every new pans you are going to buy (for additional $49.90 only) no matter that you have allready have seven such devices at the bottom of your warderobe.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[sixteenraisins]

Could you please name just one player today that supports only WMA?

I can, my old RCA Lyra. In fact, WMA is the only format it supports on a straight file copy basis (unlike MP3, which you must use software to convert it into MPY format).

I'm not an Apple zealot at all, my iPod is the only Apple product I ever bought (I have an old Mac Color Classic which was a hand-me-down), but after trying out a handful of different players, I fell in love with the iPod.

Oh, and I don't miss ripping CD's to WMA format, either.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[superpulpsicle]

Ok you must not own an iPod. Cause I do. And it causes more blue screen of death than any device I have ever hooked up to windows.

I have cameras, camcorders, external drives and devices. Nothing remotely comes close to causing problems than the iPod. There is this ridiculous myth flying around that anything coming out of Apple is solid for a price. Well it's not true. From first hand experience, not to offend anyone, the iPod has caused blue screens on 3 separate PCs now.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[InternationalCow]

I do have an iPod. Thing is, I use it with my macs. No crashes ever. Your problem must be windows . I meant the device itself, not any other device it is being attached to.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[rhuntley12]

1. I don't care what it looks like, it's in my pocket, just needs to be small 2. As long as it doesn't take more then a couple seconds to start a song I don't care if there is a dead goat in the menu 3. That would suck, I wan't it to play all formats.(Does Ipod play ogg and mp3?...) 4. I have XP in a dual boot and on some machines at work 5. Personally I don't need more then a couple gigs, I don't need 12 hours of music to listen to at a single time. Most would be a couple hours. Now that is just me 6. Who knows? Never had a problem with my Handheld that runs a version of Windows.(Granted I don't use it very much at all now that I have a laptop. Infact I hardly carry it anymore) 8. You get what you pay for I guess. I'd be happy with it for $50 as long as it plays songs just fine and doesn't crap out after a week. I don't care what it runs as long as it does what it's supposed to. $50 is cheap enough that if it only lasts 6months or so for me I'd be happy. I like buying new stuff all the time myself. I think this will be great for the people who can't see shelling out near $300 for something that just plays music that you have to buy from Apple.(I could be wrong here? Can you rip CD's and play them on Ipod? If so ignore that.)

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[GFLPraxis]

[i]3. That would suck, I wan't it to play all formats.(Does Ipod play ogg and mp3?...)[/i]


MP3, yes.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[GFLPraxis]

I know I already replied, but you're wrong about a few things.

As I already said, yes, it DOES play MP3's.

Also, it DOES rip CD's. Do it all the time.

It plays MP3s, AAC, WAV (i think)...the new iTunes for Windows even converts WMA to AAC. It plays almost anything except Ogg.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[GFLPraxis]

Yup, definitely Windows.
My sister's iPod causes no problems whatsoever.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Jim_Kim]

I don't think anybody gives any shit about your "distinct feeling", except the modders who mod you up, and other slashdot idiots. Many XP users, which represent the majority of the public, do not think that slashdot users should have any say on their choice of operating system. Despite all the FUD from Slashdot idiots, like yourself, Microsoft is still number one, and clearly public approves the way microsoft makes their products. Apple once again tries to lock people up and screw, and music is important enough not to let Apple to screw you. I welcome this move from Microsoft, since they are the ones who saved us from paying thousands of dollars more to Apple for the same or lower quality computer use. Thanks to Microsoft, today Apple can not charge significantly higher for their computers, to justify their higher prices they have to make their computers and software really cool, (functionality is not important to mac users).

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

How does a factless rant get modded up insightful? 1. Bash MS 2. Praise Apple.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably a shitty driver by Apple crashing windows if all other devices communicate fine. An OS is at the mercy of driver developers since they get low level acces to make things more efficient,

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because crashes are more efficient.

Are you giving that HAL enough love? Watering it every day?

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Jim_Kim]

You seem to be the typical idiot who love to blame everything on Microsoft and Windows. The fact however is that, Apple sucks at programming for Windows. Just look at its iTunes which do not look like a windows program. For that reason, Apple will suffer eventually once competitors begin to gain more attraction.

I know you idiots hate Microsoft, but we customers don't like to get screwed by Apple. Remember when Apple tried to own all the intellectual property for the GUIs, even though itself copied it from Xerox? A similar problem seem to emerge here, and nobody can stop Microsoft and consumers to get cheaper and more robust solutions. Apple has to learn how to produce cheap products and sell it in mass amounts, rather than charge a brand price!

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

My iPod has never caused a blue screen of death. Almost all of my friends own iPods and none have ever experienced this. Why do I not believe you actually have used an iPod?

AC

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[The Phantom Buffalo]

How old?

I bought one a couple of months ago. I can drag mp3s to mine using explorer.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Sciflyer]

Funny, in the 6 months ive had my iPod, not a single BSOD, crash, lockup, whatever and thats over two XP PCs and one of them even with an Audigy firewire port which supposedly causes alot of problems. Not only that but i can hook it up to one pc and iTunes on the other pc will detect it across the firewire network and access it as if it was locally attached

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why was this shit modded insightful?

1) Microsoft, whilst not known for making the most gorgeous things in the world, at least tend to make things which you can look at without immediately having a stroke. Their designers arent that bad. But it probably wont look as good as the iPod.

2) Microsoft make pretty good UIs these days actually. And people like glitz. Are you saying the iPod interface is never laggy, and doesn't have any glitter? Who the hell needs anti-aliased text (see the clock) and several hundred shades of grey?! And what about the pointless games?

3) Point conceeded.

4) That might mean it sucks for you. But it certainly doesn't mean its going to suck for 80%+ of the other people who might buy one.

5) As opposed to that far more common, unlimited hard drive capacity? the iPod Mini has only 4GBs and people love that.

6) How do you get from PocketWindows to Crashing so quickly? XP is pretty bloody stable in my experience, I can't say ive used PW much but some of my friends have Windows PDAs and they've never complained of crashing? And hasn't your iPod ever crashed? They used to crash loads.

7) So how many PocketWindows viruses are there out there anyway? Or won't it use pocketwindows afterall?

8) Actually people preffer what everyone else has. Which is a Creative or Apple made device. Microsoft won't get anywhere with this for just that reason. Everyone loves iPod. Unless Sony make something better.

Slashdot is full of fucking zealots and morons these days. And most common of all, the zealot, which is also a moron.

Hating Microsoft for no reason is so 1990's. Grow the fuck up you idiot. MS make good hardware.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Gropo]

Remember when Apple tried to own all the intellectual property for the GUIs, even though itself copied it from Xerox?

School's in session, clueless twit!

The actual history behind your hopelessly naive statement is far less black and white than you (and every other clueless twit) would like to paint.

Jef Raskin (the father of the Macintosh) had never seen the Xerox GUI until the Macintosh was well underway. Don't believe me? Read the man's own words.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Rogerborg]

Best. Troll. Evir.

Sir, I salute you. You have raised the bar for us all.

Re:I have a distinct feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is a Firewire driver problem. What sort of Firewire hardware do you have? Unless you're using USB-2, in which case the same question applies. The iPod isn't really anything special, just a hard drive basically. Where I've seen problems with Firewire hard drives, the same applies to other stuff like DV cameras. Getting a driver update or a better card fixes it (until the next Windows service pack anyway :).

not suprised

[bach_m]

I thought my bullshit meter detected something. What could cost $50 and still be as good as the iPod??

Re:not suprised

[Anonymous Coward]

Divine Brown.

Signed,

Hugh Grant

Re:not suprised

[Roland Piquepaille]

What could cost $50 and still be as good as the iPod??

A stolen iPod?

Re:not suprised

[mesach]

You got the hookup? send me a link.

Re:not suprised

[Anonymous Coward]

What could cost $50 and still be as good as the iPod??

Sex?

Re:not suprised

[benna]

I've seen stolen laptops and other things online for 200 or so but i've always assumed they just take your money and dont give you the laptop. If you know anywhere to get a stolen ipod for cheap email me a link my cheap pos archos player just broke.

Re:not suprised

[Impotent_Emperor]

I think this would be a good source.

Re:not suprised

[JPriest]

Remember when they said Segway would cost about $300 and change the world? It is like that but different.

Re:not suprised

[Jim_Kim]

If you had a bullshit detecter somewhere, it should blow up already on slashdot. This whole place is about bullshitting, don't you read the posts and the stories submitted. Do you seriously believe in every story here?

Re:not suprised

[jerkychew]

You've obviously never been to a Chinatown massage parlor...

Hacking Potential?

[Lord Haha]

Who cares about XP/Longhorn only I forsee a lindows sponsorship to get Linux to run on it...

Partly True.

[lateralus_1024]

Microsoft reiterated that they are not backing away from their original assertion that the device has the "feel and the look of an iPod". The only notable difference is the guts are from Sony

Re:Partly True.

[Anonymous Coward]

Informative? I think this was a joke.

I've discovered step 2!!!

[bobbabemagnet]

We've found the answer to step 2, finally!

1.) Announce fantastic unbelievable product
2.) Retract announcement (formerly ???)
3.) Profit from the 2 days of free publicity

wooooo!

Re:I've discovered step 2!!!

[arekusu]

In most cases, step 2 is "eBay".

1) steal underwear
2) eBay
3) profit!!!

Re:I've discovered step 2!!!

[Jim_Kim]

I know you are a typical slashdot idiot, but didn't you realize that the old slashdot post and this followup post is all slashdot bullshit? I mean, don't you have any brain to conclude that this is only the way to make you bullshit and talk here, you know this site is running on advertisement dollars, it is not free to run the site. Also, only slashdot and some Microsoft bashing sites give credibility to this type of stories, and the public doesn't give a shit about what slashdot says or recommends. At the end, public is clever enough to make the best decision for themselves. So all the publicity you are talking about is here and that's bad publicity for Microsoft, since anything on Slashdot is bad for Microsoft, no matter whether it is really bad or not. Every single idiot is working hard with coming up all sorts of lies and FUD to make any related news to look like bad, and they even support competitors like Apple who screw up the public.

Look and Feel

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft developing a product that has the "look and feel" of an Apple product?

Imagine that!

Re:Look and Feel

[Jim_Kim]

The article you pointed out clearly states that Apple tried to steal from Xerox and tried to capitalize on the innovations from Xerox. Also Apple sold its rights to Microsoft, but then went ahead and sued them fearing from Microsoft's innovations may hurt Apple. If it wasn't Microsoft, we would not have a choice as an operating system at all. Imagine that Apple had won, we would have to buy the OS from Apple only, and in those times (and still) charge a lot of money for the computers. Clearly Apple tried to prevent the progress in the IT industry, but thanks to Microsoft we can enjoy GUI in all platforms.

Re:Look and Feel

[Socket Scientist]

Man you've got the story so wrong I barely know where to start:

1. Apple gave Xerox a bunch of pre-IPO stock for the few elements of the PARC GUI used in Lisa and Mac. There was no theft.

2. Apple didn't "sell" any rights to Microsoft. MS was developing apps for the Mac (prior to its release) and Apple issued them a license to use elements of the Mac's GUI for this purpose.

3. Apple Legal wasn't always the crack team they are today. In the license they granted to MS, the language wasn't specific enough to restrict the use of those GUI elements to Mac apps (as was Apple's intent) and MS prevailed in court, securing the right to use the same concepts in the first version of Windows.

4. Yes of course there was more to the story than that, but those are the important facts, the rest is details.

5. You clearly have a twisted view of the world if you believe either (a) that Apple tries to prevent progress in the computer industry or (b) that Microsoft is some benevolent organization whose goal was to democratize the GUI.

Dude they are both for-profit corporations whose only goal is to make money. Apple has modestly accomplished that goal by (a) betting on new technologies early in their adoption curve and (b) creating ease of use by controlling both the hardware and software in their products (vertical integration). MS has been more of an overachiever by (a) out-negotiating IBM in a contract to supply the OS for the original PC by making it "non-exclusive" , (b) licensing it also to the clone manufacturers who appeared shortly thereafter, and (c) defending the resulting monopoly via any means necessary.

Re:Look and Feel

[mattyrobinson69]

microsoft didn't win in court - they agreed not to use apples look and feel in windows v1, which was useless because they'd already sold it. they didn't agree to any subsequent version of windows.

bastards

I hope they bring such a product out

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsofts hardware has always been top notch. I'm sure whatever they come up with will dominate and send the ipod packing.

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[JWSmythe]

Microsoft co-branded hardware has always been top notch.

Make sure you get your statements right. :)

They've licensed good equipment to put the microsoft name on. They haven't manufactured anything good themselves.

If I had a company with the budget to sell in major retail outlets, I could co-brand almost anything out there and call it my own too.

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[maxgoof]

The real question is...how many service packs would it take to get the OS on a microsoft device to be "top notch?"

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[Anonymous Coward]

The world may never know.

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[cball2k]

less then the errata fixes for the flaws in linux I would bet.....

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[Trurl's Machine]

They've licensed good equipment to put the microsoft name on. They haven't manufactured anything good themselves.

You are wrong! Among the first Microsoft products of 1970's were some fine pieces of hardware. They made an expansion card for the venerable Apple II computer. It was called Microsoft Softcard and it allowed to run CP/M and all its applications on Apple II. Basically it was just a Z-80 daughterboard. They also manufactured RAM expansion card. These cards were good and they were manufactured by themselves.

O the irony - back in 1980 Apple was making the most popular personal computer, expandable like in a hacker's wet dream (lots of expansion slots with well-documented standards allowed anyone create an expansion card to do anything - and they did! and they did!) and Microsoft was just a small manufacturer of third party hardware extension for Apple computers. Plus a vendor of the popular multiplatform BASIC interpreter - and that was all about Microsoft back then. Who could have guessed...

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[Jim_Kim]

"They've licensed good equipment to put the microsoft name on. They haven't manufactured anything good themselves" Don't bullshit us. Nobody manufactures the hardware themselves, including Apple. All hardware is manufactured by Asian companies. If you want to bash Microsoft, do it without being an idiot.

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[JWSmythe]

I had an Apple IIe with a whole collection of cards, but can't remember what any of them were now. I do vaugely remember having a CP/M card, but don't remember anything about it.

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[JWSmythe]

Ok, I'll be happy to..

Virtually everyone buys their parts from someone else.

I really enjoy ripping apart equipment to see who builds the components. For example, Dell's have quite a bit of Intel hardware in them. We had to really dig the people at Dell to find out who makes their PowerConnect switches, but it's yet another vendor. I can't remember the company name off-hand, it wasn't anything memorable. For some reason people that buy from Dell are like a cult. They believe Dell is the best, and manufacture all of their parts. They get really upset when I crack one open, and start naming off the real manufacturers. Motherboard, processor, NIC by Intel. Hard drive by whoever. I still have no idea who makes the cases, but I'm sure it's not at the Dell manufacturing plant.

Even my pretty Alienware laptop that I carry everywhere with me is actually made by "Clevo" based out of Taiwan.

Re:I hope they bring such a product out

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody manufactures the hardware themselves, including Apple.

Somebody must be.

All hardware is manufactured by Asian companies.

Christ, talk about inconsistency, you can't put two sentences together without contradicting yourself.

Someone else will

[Solid Paradox]

"Microsoft stated that they will not be manufactoring such a device" (..) Someone else will manufacture it for them.

What's the difference?

Re:Someone else will

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference is 2 years off the life span and a bunch of Asians working for .75c an hour.

Re:Someone else will

[Graff]

"Microsoft stated that they will not be manufactoring such a device" (..) Someone else will manufacture it for them.

What's the difference?

The difference is that it won't be one device that is as small as, has the capacity of, looks better than, works as well as, and is less expensive than the iPod. What the statement actually said was that there would be a range of devices, some smaller, some less expensive, some color screen, and so on.

So there is not going to be one device to beat the iPod in all areas, rather there will be several that may beat the iPod in one or two areas each even though the iPod may or may not be better overall.

Big difference there...

WHy?

[Anonymous Coward]

why pay for a $250 ipod from apple when you can buy a $50 "wmpod" from micros..oh, wait.

Manufacturers..

[ackthpt]

I've spent time with a bunch of hardware manufacturers who will launch hardware products when we ship our service that will look and feel as good as the iPod product. And they will undoubtedly be a little bit less expensive and so head-to-head against Apple...""

No doubt some of the nameless companies in Taiwan and China which are nearly impossible for Apple to sue on look/feel or other infringement issues.

Re:Manufacturers..

[jimbolaya]

But they could still get an injunction from them selling in this country, Western Europe, and any other countries that respect copyright/trademark/patent laws (Slashdotonia notwithstanding).

Keep in mind, too, that the companies that Apple successfully sued over copying the look of the original iMac were based in Asia.

Re:Manufacturers..

[hak1du]

No doubt some of the nameless companies in Taiwan and China which are nearly impossible for Apple to sue on look/feel or other infringement issues.

Fortunately, Apple's grandiose notions of protecting their "look and feel" have also been soundly defeated in the US. It it had come out otherwise, it would have been very bad for the industry.

Much as Apple would like it to be otherwise, they do not own the market of slim, nicely-styled MP3 players. Other companies have the right to come out with a white, simple, sleek, slim MP3 player with rounded corners and polycarbonate housing as well.

Re:Manufacturers..

[Socket Scientist]

Fortunately, Apple's grandiose notions of protecting their "look and feel" have also been soundly defeated in the US.

The ancient history lawsuit whose entry you linked to was an attempt by Apple to seek redress based on the nebulous concept of software copyright. These days Apple looks to the admittedly fucked up (but nevertheless easier to litigate) patent process to protect their IP. I'm no fan of the US Patent and Trademark Office, but they're the real reason you're not likely to see another mp3 player with a scroll wheel/pad.

Re:Manufacturers..

[hak1du]

The ancient history lawsuit whose entry you linked to was an attempt by Apple to seek redress

"Redress"? For what? Apple didn't invent the GUI, they licensed it from Xerox, and they didn't even pay a lot of money for it.

These days Apple looks to the admittedly fucked up (but nevertheless easier to litigate) patent process to protect their IP.

The parent poster specifically talked about Apple trying to enforce look and feel rights and I just pointed out that such rights don't exist according to US courts.

It's good that Apple is now using the patent system, because that forces them to state ahead of time what they are actually claiming to own, and it allows their claims to be challenged specifically.

but they're the real reason you're not likely to see another mp3 player with a scroll wheel/pad.

I think the real reason you aren't going to see another MP3 player with a scroll wheel is that there are better, more standard input devices: touch pads, track points, game-controller like pads, etc. The wheel gives the iPod brand identity, that's all.

Re:Manufacturers..

[Socket Scientist]

The parent poster specifically talked about Apple trying to enforce look and feel rights and I just pointed out that such rights don't exist according to US courts.

The parent poster specifically said "look/feel or other infringement issues."

It's good that Apple is now using the patent system, because that forces them to state ahead of time what they are actually claiming to own, and it allows their claims to be challenged specifically.

Which would be just dandy if the system functioned properly, but it doesn't. People and companies are awarded patents all the time for things that ought not to have survived a comprehensive review or an equitable application of the rules.

I think the real reason you aren't going to see another MP3 player with a scroll wheel is that there are better, more standard input devices: touch pads, track points, game-controller like pads, etc. The wheel gives the iPod brand identity, that's all.

Yes the wheel provides brand identity, but if you think those other input devices you mentioned are better suited for this purpose -- i.e. for tasks like scrolling long lists like those found in an mp3 library -- then I'm forced to conclude you've never used an iPod.

Apple's wheel is the only design so far that lets you do that without continually removing your finger and reapplying it. It's also extremely intuitive, which negates any "familiarity advantage" of those other methods.

I expect Apple to defend the scroll wheel design vigorously. Even though I don't think such obvious "inventions" should be patentable, it is their right under the existing system.

Re:Manufacturers..

[hak1du]

The parent poster specifically said "look/feel or other infringement issues."

Yes, and that, in particular, could imply that he considered "look/feel infringement" something that was prosecutable under US law, in addition to "other infringement". If he knew that LAF was infringeable nowhere, there would have been no point in mentioning it.

then I'm forced to conclude you've never used an iPod.

I tried it out, and I don't think it's a very good player: the battery life is too short, it can't be recharged through USB, and, yes, I didn't like the wheel. I bought a different player, which looks less stylish but works a whole lot better.

Apple's wheel is the only design so far that lets you do that without continually removing your finger and reapplying it.

I found the wheel to be a pain for scrolling through long lists. And, anyway, whoever said that removing your finger and reapplying it was bad? We do it for lots of pointing devices.

A better design is a pressure-sensitive rocker: press hard, scroll quickly, press softly, scroll slowly, and click to step.

Re:Manufacturers..

[Socket Scientist]

I bought a different player, which looks less stylish but works a whole lot better.

And you don't name it because? Let me guess ... it's either a lot larger or heavier or has some other obvious defect preventing its acceptance in the mass market. It's easy to name players that have one or two features that are better than an iPod, but so far none have exceeded its balance or overall feature set. Having owned other mp3 players before getting an iPod, I find the only legitimate complaint is its 8-hour runtime.

I found the wheel to be a pain for scrolling through long lists.

You say you "tried out" an iPod. Perhaps a few minutes in a store was not enough to appreciate the scroll pad design.

And, anyway, whoever said that removing your finger and reapplying it was bad?

I did. I have RSI from a decade's heavy use of such devices.

A better design is a pressure-sensitive rocker: press hard, scroll quickly, press softly, scroll slowly, and click to step.

It's very difficult to use devices that depend on pressure sensitivity while you're moving -- walking, jogging or basically doing anything beyond sitting or standing still. This is why there are no pressure-sensitive controls in your car. Too easy to "click to step", hit a bump (or whatever) and wind up twenty tunes from your target.

Look, I'm not saying that the iPod is a perfect design. What is? But the way you've had to scrape the barrel to come up with reasons against buying one (while not revealing your own "superior" choice) makes me think your bias has another source.

Re:Manufacturers..

[Methuseus]

I really want to know what player you have that's better, and, more importantly, why. I'm looking for a hard drive based player and I'm trying hard not to get an iPod. The best reasons I can come up with are lack of ogg support, somewhat short battery life (though included rechargeable is a plus) and the high price.

$50 is too expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe at $25, people could afford an iPod clone. But $50 is ridiculous.

Re:$50 is too expensive

[bennomatic]

The $25.00 model will only let you listen to half the song. Not the first half or the last half, mind you, but alternating seconds. It's the latest feature built in to the WMA specification.

You want other standards supported? Too bad! Mehdi was quoted as saying, "MP what? Ogg who-bis?"

creators' newclear power renders unprecedented

[Anonymous Coward]

evile et AL, unable to clone itself/take more hostages?

what a surprise?

the stock markup FraUD/softwar gangster payper liesense hostage grab 'business plan' is looking a little hapless now?

fauxking billyonerrors. sheesh.

lookout bullow. tell 'em robbIE?

all is not lost.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators.... freely replicatable since forever. the lights are coming up now. see you there?

Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, anonymous comment posting has temporarily (forever, if we had some ept) been disabled. You can still login to post. However, if bad posting continues from your IP or Subnet that privilege could be revoked as well. If it's you, consider this a chance to sit in the timeout corner or login and improve your posting . If it's someone else, this is a chance to hunt them down (like with fuddles' phonIE bouNTy hunter scam). If you think this is unfair, we just don't care.

No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Roland Piquepaille]

Other choice quotes from Microsoft:

- NT will support the SPARC risc platform
- IE4 cannot be separated fron Win98
- Palladium is for security purposes only
- SQL Server doesn't have easter eggs

In short, if Microsoft says they have no plan for an iPod clone, they may speak the truth, or they're still developing it. At any rate, they're probably trying hard to avoid looking like a monopoly.

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

parent is a known troll.

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[ctr2sprt]

You can't get on MS's case too bad for some of those. In the first case, they probably really did want to support all those platforms - but sales and reality intervened and forced them to change their plans. In the second, as far as I'm concerned, IE is a key component of Windows. You can remove it, but it will break a ton of stuff. What you're left with may be an OS in your opinion, but it's not in mine (or in MS's).

As far as Palladium goes, I wouldn't start panicking until you can actually buy machines that require it. Who knows what it's going to look like if/when it's actually rolled out?

And for the last, well, if I make a claim I genuinely believe is true, then I'm telling the truth to the best of my ability. This means I can make tons of truthful claims which are just wrong. Ever worked for a company of any size at all? The PR and management types make all sorts of claims based on incomplete or flat-out wrong information. They aren't a credible source of technical information, but unfortunately, they are the company's public face... so they're the ones who have to deliver whatever technical information there is.

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Anonymous Coward is a known troll too.

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

MODS ON CRACK!

How is this a troll? Just because some AC said it was?

MODS: READ THE BLOODY POST BEFORE MODERATING!

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod up, parent is a known insightful, informative and amusing poster.

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Decaff]

In the second, as far as I'm concerned, IE is a key component of Windows.

Strange how every other operating system that has been developed in the long history of the IT industry has managed to operate without the presence of a HTML renderer as a 'key component'.

What you're left with may be an OS in your opinion, but it's not in mine

So all those GUI-less Linux/UNIX installations used by ISPs to host websites and app servers are not 'operating systems'?

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

like you are an unknown troll and asshole?

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Every other corresponds to *nix.

Let's be serious here, there are *nix/CLI based systems, and then there are (non-tm) windows based machines (like Mac OS 9- and MS Windows).

You are in denial if you don't accept the fact that it's actually a relatively brilliant thing to, say, have your 'details' dropdows for explorer be HTML/css files. In an alternate world where those settings were embedded into DLLs and/or the registry, you would be complaining that microsoft sucks because it doesn't use existing standards.

Bitch all you want, the fact that many GUI components - and that has nothing to do with Kernel - use the HTML rendering object is a cool thing.

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Decaff]

Firstly, there are plenty of non-Unix CLI based systems, but none of their suppliers are stupid enough to claim that the browser is part of the OS.

Secondly, Microsoft doesn't use existing standards. It's HTML rendering has been always buggy, especially in terms of CSS handling. Developers have know this, and had to code to deal with it, for years.

Thirdly, you use the phrase 'nothing to do with the Kernel'. That is exactly my point - its not, and never has been, a core feature of any operating system.

How could Explorer possibly be a core part of Windows in embedded systems?

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Decaff]

Every other corresponds to *nix.

A short history lesson for you:

'Every other' includes....

Multix. RSX-11. VMS. CP/M. RT/OS. VxWorks.
VM/CMS. MS-DOS. DR-DOS. Netware. ICL/george.
S/390.

And hundreds of others.

Hint: before you post about CLI-based OSes... and anything else.... do some research.

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[vingt]

...ICL/george...

Man, that took me back - George, EXEC, TABN and util. I haven't thoght about that in two decades. Thanks for the nostalgic hit...

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Hektor_Troy]

Who'd pay $2500 for a clone of an old game from Toyota of all companies?!?

Hell, even if it was a clone of Diablo II - Lord of Destruction, I wouldn't pay more than $15 for it!

Re:No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[Methuseus]

When you install linux, if you use KDE you have Konqueror (sorta like IE and Windows) and for Gnome I believe you have a related browser, but haven't used Gnome much lately so I can't remember.

truly would be an iPod clone then...

[dfghjk]

...except without the crappy battery.

MSN Search and Music, Part Two #

[jg21]

This post at Microsoft Monitor sets the record straight.

Written by Joe Wilcox of Jupiter Research it starts:

I'm a bit stunned by the press feeding frenzy set off by comments (here) Yusuf Mehdi, MSN corporate VP, made during a Wednesday speech. News report after news report claimed that Microsoft would unleash an iPod-killing music player for 50 bucks.

The problem: That's not at all what Mr. Mehdi said.

Re:MSN Search and Music, Part Two #

[Locutus]

Good one and for once, Wilcox seems like he's not a PR flunky for Microsoft.

In short, what Wilcox said is that Microsoft said they were releasing a music service and that there would be many hardware vendors supporting it and those products would be little $50 models all the way up to iPod look-alikes.

IMO, Microsoft is again going for the low end of the market by making sure it's service supports cheap models along with expensive ones. Apple, pretty much only has high-end models. Also, Microsoft understands that Apple needs iPod sales to keep that division running since it makes $$ on the hardware.

Is this really the first time a music player ships with an online service for loading music? I just figured Apple did a good job with the hardware and so the market/customers came. I have a feeling that the low-end market will end up killing the products in the high-end before it gets a chance to grow "down" the chain.

LoB

One word: Baseless.

[Faust7]

1. Ugly

Baseless.

2. Have a clunky interface with lots of glitz and glitter

Baseless. Seen the interfaces for Server 2003 and XP? They rock, plain and simple.

3. Play WMA only

MP3 is the universal digital music format right now. To not play those files is to alienate most of the market. Microsoft is not that stupid.

4. Require XP

If it runs Windows, it will be a super-stripped-down version of probably the XP kernel that will barely resemble XP itself, if at all.

Have limited hard drive capacity

Um, no. Decent hard drives are as cheap as they ever were.

6. Run Pocketwindows and crash regularly

Baseless.

7. Have its own host of viruses within half a year

8. Still sell like crazy because for some reason people seem to prefer mediocre crap

You haven't even seen the damn thing yet. How do you know it's mediocre?

Re:One word: Baseless.

[MochaMan]

Seen the interfaces for Server 2003 and XP? They rock, plain and simple.

Ah, you must have straggled in from winsupersite.com.

Hold on to your toque, my friend, I have a feeling things are about to get rough for you.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[sumdumass]

Hey bill gates.. have you no sence of humor? The boy was joking!!

That or expressing his opinion based on his experiences with microsoft products. -you get that.. it is his opinion based on his experiences. that is the oposite of baseless. and i would mostly agree with him.

--shouldn't you have a goat or something you need to shave?

Re:One word: Baseless.

[Anonymous Coward]

does that mean all his bases belong to us?

Re:One word: Baseless.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have answer to your answers. Clueless.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[malchus842]

Yeah, I've seen XP's interface. It's a pain in the butt, unless you disable all the new XP stuff (which tries to hide everything that's really useful). I've seen 2003's interfrace. It's OK.

There is nothing about 2003 or XP that 'rocks'. Lots of glitz, very little utility. Unless of course you configure it to work like 2000, but then why upgrade?

On my desk here is RedHat 9, RedHat ES, Mac OS 10.3, Windows 2K. Of all of them, OS X has the best interface. Hands down. For shear elegance, ease of use and clarity, it puts XP to shame. And without trying to hide all the useful bits. Oh yeah, and the "home" version of OS X doesn't come with the user set to run in "root" mode by default. XP Home does.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[rdsmith4]

You haven't even seen the damn thing yet. How do you know it's mediocre?

Well, duh. It's Microsoft. Perhaps you hadn't caught on; this is the way you have to think if you're going to do any posting on slashdot:

1. Microsoft == The Great Satan. Other large companies are too, except Oracle and probably Sun.
2. Open Source is the only way. It's always better than proprietary.
3. Linux is the best OS, but *BSD is right up there. Macs are even OK - never mind that Apple is another large company doing its best to make a lot of money; it's fine because it's not Microsoft!
4. Linus Torvalds is God. Richard M. Stallman (RMS) is an OK guy. Eric S. Raymond (ESR) is a wannabe hacker with nutty political views.
5. George W is The Great Satan in a different guise. He's really stupid. Conservatives are his little subordinate demons (not daemons, mind you; those are OK).
6. America, despite being the wealthiest and healthiest nation on the planet and the one with the highest standard of living, is incorrigibly arrogant, bullying, racist, sexist, prejudiced, incompetent, and generally going to hell in a handbasket. Never say this out loud; simply make snide comments to that effect.
7. It is not necessary to weigh the merits of a Microsoft product logically or rationally. Foregone conclusion: it sucks.
8. As a matter of fact, nothing has to be done logically or rationally, particularly writing and modding comments.

Ignore these rules and you will be modded down! (You already have been, I see.)

Re:One word: Baseless.

[Jim_Kim]

XP is sold more than any other operating system on earth. You should rather hold your own "toque" before telling others to do so. Its UI is also heavily copied in many other systems, including Mac OS X.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[Anonymous Coward]

Its UI is also heavily copied in many other systems, including Mac OS X.

Ummm, are you on crack? First off, OS X came out before Windows XP. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to give some examples to back up your assertion. Secondly, sales have very little to do with quality of user interface.

By that logic, BMW must be crap because Toyotas sell better.

Finally, please don't ever use the word toque again until you understand how. And while we're at it, please send Tampa our condolences next week.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[Jim_Kim]

OS X wasn't complete until Panther edition, and Apple charged 400$ for that since you weren't offered any upgrade price. Also Apple always offer things before other companies, but that's because their market is very small, so they don't have to worry a lot about support, and there are plenty of people to pay 400$ to Apple to eventually get a real OS. Car comparisons do not make sense in the software industry. If you make the best product and sell a lot, you can reinvest the money you earn back to the R&D as in Microsoft's case. For Apple, though, they have to charge more because they don't sell enough. In fact just check out the prices of shareware. For example, some of the crap out there is around 50$ or 100$. Moveable Type is charging 100$ or more for a blogging tool, but the price of Word itself is around 100$. Clearly charging more for software means that you don't sell enough, thus you have to charge more. Luckily Apple has brand recognition and many people try to make Apple look like a nice company and some people fall into that trap. Apple has to heavily advertise and make their products look cool and attractive to be able to justify their ridiculous high prices.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[jeffgeno]

Oh yeah, and the "home" version of OS X doesn't come with the user set to run in "root" mode by default. XP Home does.

No it doesn't. Both XP Home and OS X have the default user with Administrator access, which isn't "root" in either OS. In OS X, "root" is root, under Windows "system" is root. And it's not possible to log on as "system." The Windows administrator accounts have a little more access than the OS X ones, but they're both perfectly capable of installing software and messing up a system.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[addaon]

Dude, can I get a hit of that?

Re:One word: Baseless.

[jred]

Of all of them, OS X has the best interface. Hands down. For shear elegance, ease of use and clarity, it puts XP to shame. And without trying to hide all the useful bits.

I've never much worked with Macs, pre- or post-X. On the rare occasions I've messed with my friend's, I've never been able to find the shell prompt. I know I can hop online & find the answer in a couple of minutes, but dammit! Macs are supposed to be Gramma easy!

I know a bunch of computer literate people love MacOSX, so it can't be that I know too much (WinXX, Netware, *nix).

So I still want a Powerbook :) but whenever I hear people talk about how great and intuitive osX is, I wonder where the hell xterm is.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[scottgfx]

So, exactly how long have you worked for Microsoft?

Re:One word: Baseless.

[wwwillem]

XP is sold more than any other operating system on earth.

Ehhh, "PC's are sold more than any other computer on earth". And you get XP with it, if you like (wipe :-) it or not. Of course there are exceptions for those buying a DIY whitebox.

Re:One word: Baseless.

[papaTango]

I've never been able to find the shell prompt

From the Finder...

Type Command-Shift-U or select Utilities from the Go menu. This opens the Utilities folder.

Locate and select the Terminal application. You can do this quickly by typing the first few letters of the app name.

Double-click on the Terminal app or type Command-O or select Open from the File menu to start the app.

Enjoy! (bash default in 10.3, tcsh default in 10.2 and optional in 10.3, csh, sh, and zsh optional. The Console app -- similar access -- lets you monitor log files.)

I guess the philosophy for doing it this way is to keep Gramma from stumbing into the shell by accident. We wouldn't want her to fall and accidentally type rm!

Re:One word: Baseless.

[Anonymous Coward]

America, despite being the wealthiest and healthiest nation on the planet and the one with the highest standard of living, is incorrigibly arrogant, bullying, racist, sexist, prejudiced, incompetent, and generally going to hell in a handbasket.

First, "America" is not the United States of America, but either North America or both North and South America depending on whom you ask. That's what the "of America" part indicates. You're just incorrigibly arrogant to misuse the name as you did. ;)

Second, I'm not sure what you're using for measures of health or standard of living; perhaps GNP per capita? The UN Human Development Index consistently places the US around the middle of the top ten, generally behind the Scandinavian countries, Belgium, and Australia (Canada recently slipped behind the US). However the US gets special mention because there is also a Human Poverty Index for developed countries where it places consistently higher. Then again, so do a lot of the other HDI "winners", which is an interesting commentary on the modern world.

Is the HDI enough to measure a country's level of development?
Not at all. The concept of human development is much broader than can be captured in the HDI, or any other of the indices (GDI, GEM and HPI). The HDI, for example, does not reflect political participation or gender inequalities. The HPI-2, measuring human poverty in the richest countries, shows surprising results. The United States, with the second highest GDP per capita, also has the highest extent of deprivations. The indices can only offer a broad proxy on the issues of human development, gender, and human poverty. A fuller picture of a country's level of human development requires analysis of other human development indicators and information.

That's from here.

As for the Microsoft music player, I haven't tried it, but I'm sure it'd suck anyway. I mean, even their logo is ugly. ;)

Mod Parent...

[relyter]

Something other than informative.
Do the Moderators even check the links?
I seriously doubt that the gut will be made by Sony as they are direct competitor with Microsoft in several areas (XBox vs. Playstation, WMA vs. ATRAC 3)

$50?

[lateralus_1024]

Does Clippy retrieve the playlists?

Re:$50?

[kunudo]

If Clippy touches my playlists, I'l bend him into a lockpick.

Re:$50?

[VistaBoy]

"Hey, it looks like you're trying to break-in somewhere! Do you need help?"

-Clippy's second form, Picky

Re:$50?

[Anonymous Coward]

"It Looks like you are listening to Barry Manilow. Do you want me to shoot you in the head?"

You forgot #4

[DaHat]

4.) Become further hated and mistrusted by geeks everywhere for getting their hopes up in their desire to have a inexpensive and powerful iPod clone.

What I don't understand...

[gatorflux]

Slashdotters are opposed to monopolies but they want Apple to have a monopoly in the mp3 player market.

Variety is good, folks. I hope someone comes out with a good quality, cheaper version of the iPod. Who cares if that company is Microsoft? It would only drive down prices for consumers in general.

Re:What I don't understand...

[Roland Piquepaille]

Who cares if that company is Microsoft? It would only drive down prices for consumers in general.

Until the point where all competition in the iPod-style music players market has been killed off, and then you'll pay whatever Microsoft decides.

Haven't you realized yet that Microsoft is a runaway monopoly that the government failed/refused to Sherman-Act? They managed to lull (and pay) the feds into thinking they play nice on the market, so they thread carefully when they enter a new market. But when they do enter a market, they end up sterilizing it.

This is why I'm glad when Microsoft keeps its hands off anything.

Re:What I don't understand...

[maxgoof]

Yeah, this territory is too new for microsoft not to find a way to screw it up.

Re:What I don't understand...

[MoonBuggy]

Nobody said Apple should be the only company left on the market. Microsoft, however, have a history of taking over markets they enter - if MS had come in with a player priced that low and marketed it properly it could've become dominant and we know from past performance that they would raise prices and increase customer lock-ins as soon as they had the market saturated.

Re:What I don't understand...

[anothy]

The reaction you're seeing isn't about wanting Apple to have a monopoly at all. I own an iPod (which i'm thrilled with), but i don't want them to have a monopoly on mp3 players, either. But the reaction here is based on other things. First, based on nearly everything else they produce, we're all kinda assuming an iPod knock-off made by MS will, well, suck. Second, MS has this nasty habit of trying to dominate and own any market they enter, so this is bad for variety. Apple's got a hit product and an aggressive ad campaign, sure, but they're still well under 50% market share (as of their last published numbers, anyway). Not even close to a monopoly.

Re:What I don't understand...

[kfg]

. . . they want Apple to have a monopoly in the mp3 player market.

Where on earth did you get the idea that Microsoft is going to be making an mp3 player?

How Microsoft competes will be interesting. Because for Microsoft, the real economics is about selling Windows. That's why Microsoft can spend $500 million developing Windows Media 9 Series technologies to be licensed cheaply or given away for free. Windows Media is a means to an end, a loss leader for selling the operating system--the way Apple's music store is in a way a loss leader for selling iPods. So, in that sense the strategies are similar. Microsoft hopes that the more devices and stores that support Windows Media, the more consumers that buy WMA DRM content, the better for selling Windows.

--Joe Wilcox: Microsoft Monitor Weblog, as linked to in a post above.

KFG

Re:What I don't understand...

[TheGavster]

MS isn't actually that bad in the hardware department; sure, they have a lot of junk stuff, but their rebranded mice and keyboards are pretty good, and the XBox (lets call it a PS2 ripoff) speaks for itself (especially if you void the warranty). If they manage to find a good product to put their name on, it might actually be a success.

Really, of all else fails, they just need to do as follows:

1) Break ipod compatibility in Longhorn
2) Make WinPod DRMed to the point that even the RIAA wants some
3) Profit

Re:What I don't understand...

[evilviper]

I hope someone comes out with a good quality, cheaper version of the iPod.

Search for: Rio Karma

Only problem I have is that it can't be used as a USB hard drive, and you can't transfer files to it just by copying them as if it's a hard drive. Have to use the software, either native or Java version.

Re:What I don't understand...

[secolactico]

Yeah, this territory is too new for microsoft not to find a way to screw it up.

So was the console market, yet the Xbox seems to be doing well, even if Sony still leads the race, more and more games are being released as Xbox exclusive (wasn't there a story about it on slashdot recently?)

For $50 I'd buy a MS iPod clone. As long as it didn't come with restrictions, such as only allowing DRMed songs playback. I wouldn't mind having to convert my library to wma for that matter, I may have a below average hearing, but I can't tell the difference between MP3, OGG, AAC or WMA.

Light knows I've spent more than that on impulse buys that tend to end up gathering dust on some drawer (I'm a weak consumer sucker... maybe I'll just give the $50 to charity, instead).

Re:What I don't understand...

[hng_rval]

When has Microsoft ever raised prices, compared to the price growth of the rest of the industry, after beating out competitors?

History shows us that MS has actually reduced prices in the long term.

Their biggest competitor in most of their products is actually themselves. They have to convince customers to upgrade, and that means they can't raise prices indiscriminately.

Re:What I don't understand...

[Methuseus]

Yes, we can see how MS is such a monopoly in every hardware category.

Like mice and keyboards. Oh wait, do I see Logitech?

Or maybe wheels and joysticks. Thrustmaster is that you? along with Logi and all the others?

I know! It's the consoles you're talking about!!! Umm, maybe I forgot Gamecube and Playstation 1/2, and especially GameBoy Advance.

The Denver Post underestimated the cost...

[mfivis]

...because they failed to account for human resources required by the team responsible for porting Clippy to an embedded device.

Re:The Denver Post underestimated the cost...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you mean to say 'misunderestimated' ? Remember to vote.

Re:The Denver Post underestimated the cost...

[1010011010]

Microsoft should release a hand-held "Clippy." It would be the world's first (or, at least, most) evil Tomagotchi.

Microsoft wouldn't know look-and-feel if it bit...

[FunWithHeadlines]

...well you know the rest.

For the last couple of decades I have marvelled at how clunky Microsoft software looks. Yeah, it's slowly improving, but man, typically their stuff looks like a bunch of geeks designed it --- oh wait...

Anyway, if someone from Microsoft says he thinks competitors will be able to make someone as sexy as an iPod, well I ain't holding my breath. I've heard those promises before from Microsoft, only to be surprised at how truly oddball the final result appeared. So for my money, having someone at Microsoft talk about look-and-feel issues is like hearing a pre-schooler lecture about staying within the lines while coloring. Their heart might be in the right place, but their execution will be lacking.

How much would you pay?

[Anonymous Coward]

A player that can do everything an iPod does and can play WMA files - how much would you expect to pay for such a device? $70? $60? No, its just two easy payments of $19.99! If you call now Microsoft will throw in a pair of headphones for no additional cost!

Will Job's let history repeat itself

[beforewisdom]

We all know the lesson Steve Job's learned the hard way by continuing to produce more expensive Macs while other people rolled out cheaper PCs.

PCs stole the market for desktop computers away from Apple, eventhough the Apple product was technically superior and more user friendly.

However, the price wasn't right.

This looks like another iteration of the same situation.

Will Apple lower its prices to compete with the iPod clones or will they foolishly lose command of a market again on the belief that superior quality will save them?

Steve

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[maxgoof]

The funny thing, I personally would pay the $500 for an IPod even if Microsoft gave me one of theirs. We were audited (I'm a Sr. IS Tech at the company I work for) 2 years ago, totally funny...we had more licenses than necessary. However, to find that out it took hundreds of man hours finding all the paperwork (which all were submitted to them, either electronically through their MOLP's electronics, big business licensing, or by mail. Yet, we had to run around and prove to them that we weren't lying.) I can't stand them at all!

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[mrtrumbe]

Right. Because a lack of compatibility, software and market share in business had nothing to do with Apple's decline.

Price is not the only reason Apple lost marketshare. In fact, it probably wasn't even the primary reason. Your comment is a gross simplification of computing history.

Also, I find it interesting that people still equate not being as successful as MS with being a failure. Apple had some rocky times in the past. But now, they are looking pretty good. This, despite their lack of 80%+ marketshare.

Complete world dominance is not the only metric of success.

Taft

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[Graymalkin]

You really need to get your fact straight before spouting off this sort of crap. In 1983 Steve Jobs began to court John Sculley, the president of Pepsi, to join Apple. By April of that year Sculley was working for Apple. Even though Sculley was a good businessman it became quite obvious he knew squat about the computer industry or computers altogether. In 1985 Jobs and Sculley were arguing like crazy. Jobs was convinced sculley was going to run Apple into the ground. He planned a boardroom coup while Sculley was on a business trip but somebody told Sculley before he left and him and Jobs got into it. The board sided unanimously with Sculley and Jobs resigned that day.

Ergo your mythical tale of Steve Jobs keeping the price of the Mac too high is far-fetched at best and outright stupid at worst. Sculley made a swath of ridiculous business descisions and was responsible for Apple's look-and-feel lawsuit loss against Microsoft. Sculley got Bill Gates to put in writing that Windows 1.0 wouldn't use any of the Mac's technologies. Gates' lawyers made sure the contract was airtight. The contract didn't mention any system besides Windows 1.0, Microsoft was contractually free to copy the Mac interface willy nilly in subsequent versions of Windows.

People love to blame Steve Jobs for all of Apple's problems but he was entirely absent from business descisions between 1985 and 1997. In the times Jobs has been present the Mac and Apple have done pretty well. Jobs has made tons of mistakes but he isn't responsible for many of Apple's problems in the past two decades.

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[adzoox]

"ight. Because a lack of compatibility, software and market share in business had nothing to do with Apple's decline.

Price is not the only reason Apple lost marketshare. In fact, it probably wasn't even the primary reason. Your comment is a gross simplification of computing history.

Also, I find it interesting that people still equate not being as successful as MS with being a failure. Apple had some rocky times in the past. But now, they are looking pretty good. This, despite their lack of 80%+ marketshare."

This was a good statement but I have NEVER understood this part (in anyone's "reasons for Apple failures"):

Because a lack of compatibility, software and market share in business had nothing to do with Apple's decline.

What hasn't been compatible?
Office? No!
Quicken? No!
Games? For the most part, no!

What has been compatible (to me in superior fashion on the Mac):

Bluetooth
Home Control (for a LONG time)
Movie Editting
CD Burning
and now GarageBand/iTunes

The above also apply to your software statement. As for business. Business and Enterprise is ONLY profitable with service contracts - why doesn't anyone understand that? Boxes are often sold just like they are to education or even leased. Apple would make a Dell margin of 1% -3%. I want Apple to be more in Enterprise, but I want them to have a stable margin too.

I agree with the majority of what you said though.

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[Anonymous Coward]

You're twisting the computing history yourself, in order to just flame someone else. Price had everything to do with it, and compatibility too. This is what happened:

Apple created an OS that ran on its own hardware at a somewhat reasonable price. It insisted that its OS ran only on its own hardware and was sold at a fixed price.

Microsoft created an open OS that ran on any compatible hardware. It didn't even offer its own hardware. Because many manufacturers were able to build and sell MS-compatible PCs, they built them and, by virtue of competition, sold them at affordable prices.

Consumers bought MS-compatible PCs because they were cheaper because they used compatible components from competing manufacturers. In summary, consumers bought from Microsoft (and from lots of PC manufacturers) because it was cheaper, it was cheaper because the OS was compatible with a multitude of compatible hardware.

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[rice_burners_suck]

Did you watch Trump's show, The Apprentice? Heh. What did those two teams discover? That high quantity at a low price didn't win them anything. In every episode where both teams did the right things, the team that won was the one that went after the higher-paying customers, not the higher number of lower-paying customers.

Apple has the image of a quality computer company. Even people who don't know much about computers know that Apple makes a better computer. Now that matter of price may be holding Apple back, but on the other hand, the 2 or 3 percent of the market that they have is still a large market.

The only problem I have with Apple is that they don't continue to market a product once it's "finished." Instead, they come out with a product, and the minute they finish engineering it, it's like yesterday's news to them. Now they are concentrating on innovating for the next product. Which means two things: First, that their computers are ahead of their time, which is good. Second, that they don't have as large a customer base as they should, which is bad.

Let's face it. Everybody knows that when it comes to quality, you get what you pay for. If only Apple would push their existing products a little more strongly, and charge a little less for the software.

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[evilviper]

You know something, what's pissing me off lately, as I've been shopping for electronics, computer perhiperals, etc., is that I can't find anything high quality. I'd be willing to pay 2X more for something that wasn't a piece of crap, but I just can't find anything of decent quality in local stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc).

If Apple products are significantly better quality, they can charge 4Xs as much and still have plenty of customers. However, I personally don't find Apple products to be much higher-quality, so I'm not inclined to pay the price.

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[mrtrumbe]

And I agree with the majority of what you said. I think we are focusing on different eras, though.

Back in the Apple II* vs. "IBM Compatible" days, there was almost NO compatibility between systems. This lack of compatibility extended well into the early Mac days. Fortunately, with each release of classic Mac OS, they got more and more compatible with widespread standards, culminating with the so-called "ultimate compatibility" of OS X (Unix and Mac OS meeting in harmony, etc. etc.).

But this early lack of compatibility really hurt Apple, especially in the business arena. You are right that business uptake of a system is no assurance of future company success. Look at NeXT, for instance. When they hit the scene, their uptake among banks was very promising, yet they ultimately tanked. However, that era, in hindsight, was key in shaping the computing landscape into what it is today. Widespread use of "IBM Compatibles" and the OS and business software that went with it (read: MS Windows and MS Office) would be among my top reasons Windows dominates today.

Don't get me wrong, I think Apple IS a success today. But the computing world might have been very different today had Apple dominated the business world instead of MS in the late 80's and early 90's.

And what if Apple had used x86 in the original Macs? What if they would have gone for MS Office (or wordperfect) compatibility early on. Those what-if's would result in some pretty interesting scenarios, if you ask me.

Taft

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[hak1du]

PCs stole the market for desktop computers away from Apple, eventhough the Apple product was technically superior and more user friendly.

"Stealing" the market somehow implies that it was rightfully Apple's. In what way do you think it was?

Will Apple lower its prices to compete with the iPod clones or will they foolishly lose command of a market again on the belief that superior quality will save them?

The whole point of Apple's existence is to sell to the high-end segment of the market: image conscious, "hip" customers with lots of money. It's the premium people pay for Apple products that makes them a status symbol.

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[Anonymous Coward]

What?

what are you talking about?

I'm about to go to bed but this post just irritated me. FWIW I was brought up with CP/M RISC OS MSDOS5 etc

You keep arguing the WRONG things. Apple are not a Computer company and they are not a Software company... they are a Solution company.
It just happens that they also make the software and the hardware to their solutions.

ALL X86 PCs are IBM X86 clones. Give or take a few tweaks, they all adhere to certain fundimentl architechtural rights that my 386 DX 33 did. Yep the DX with it's 33 bit processor back in ... 199 who knows!

Microsoft are a Software house and bad box shifters at that, they don't care if there is a bug or a hundred, cos they are supporting an enormous platform of hardware and developers.

So you choose. what would you like? The industry standard in the music industry is ProTools which runs mainly on Macs, you can get it to run on PCs but it's not easy.

Most companies who need a server to run constantly stick Linux on it. Or run Windows and reboot occasionally.

Numbers of users do not a good operating system make.

for every person dialling onto the internet there has to be one modem at the providers end (simplified i know)

MOst people are happy with windows the way they are happy to drive crappy cars and live in shit accomodation.

Apple has not really got anything to do with the home market, in the way that microsoft has nothing to do with the style or productivity market.

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[Socket Scientist]

Will Apple lower its prices to compete with the iPod clones or will they foolishly lose command of a market again on the belief that superior quality will save them?

In an optimum scenario they could license their FairPlay DRM to a few companies who were willing to limit their sights to less expensive, lower capacity devices (currently flash memory based). Players in this market segment south of the iPod Mini, have tiny margins that are of little interest to Apple, but their sales volumes could soar in the next few years .

By doing this they could limit cannibalization of the iPod (by ensuring the licensees don't encroach on its turf) yet consumers would be offered a full range of AAC and iTunes Music Store compatible devices at all price points.

The lesson Apple ought to have learned from the last two decades is that the winner is the competitor whose file format locks in the most users (see MS Windows, MS Office, etc). Sad, but true and it means they should promote AAC/FairPlay even at the cost of the profit on a few iPods.

Re:Will Job's let history repeat itself

[Lumpy]

that is funny!

Have you even used an iPod? I have... for 3 weeks now and it completely and totally blows away EVERY OTHER mp3 player ever made. Even things that cost 2X it's price suck compared to it.

why? simple... it's built like a piece of jewelery. it's fricking beautiful.... it's interface is slick and elegant. using the ipod becomes natural 10 seconds after you pick it up even people that havenever touched one before get really adept at using it 10 seconds later by just touching it.

finally the no real buttons activation buttons completely rock and make everything else feel fike low-tech crud from 10 years ago.... "Oh man you actually have to move a mechanical button? how 1990 of you!"

Dont get me wrong, for a long time I thought the iPod was a overpriced and overhyped player. but there are reasons that you can only see by touching and using one for a week. It's built for end users that are not very smart or capable in any way.. and that is how it succeeds so well.

...due to /. FUD

[cball2k]

...I see /. contributors are faking stories like so many newspapers have been...so much for integrity of the /. news ....I guess they will just blame MS for their mistakes...

yayaya, call be a troll, at least I tell and understand the TRUTH...

In other words

[mcc]

Like with PCs, Microsoft will allow other companies to engage in the cutthroat and unprofitable business (making and selling mp3 players and operating online music stores), then sit in the background and collect licensing fees.

Certainly makes more sense than the previous story.

What picture does the fake google link really show

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm afraid I'll see tubgirl so I'm not going to click. Some brave soul please let us know.

ONLY in America would this be NEWS

[Crypto Gnome]

will launch hardware products ... that will look and feel as good as the iPod product. And they will undoubtedly be a little bit less expensive and so head-to-head against Apple

So this heresay and rumor about potential products which are claimed to look and feel similar to the iPOD (ie no specifications, nor even rumors of specs) is NEWS????

Is this because

• You've all lost your minds (Mad Cow Disease rampant in America???)
• You're so sick of "news from Iraq" that *anything* is better
• ... ditto "the presidential election"
• Media Beat UP and HYPE is *always* news, no matter which crack-induced nightmares they paraphrase

Or maybe it's simply

1. Let Apple take the portable digital music market by storm
2. Release rumor and hearsay (with not even a HINT of specifications) of an "iPOD Killer"
3. ???
4. Profit

To quote a well known (if fictional) American: Frankly madam, I don't give a damn.

Re:ONLY in America would this be NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course ONlY in AMERICA (specifically, on slashdot) would the above post be moderated -1 Troll.

Seriously, this isn't NEWS, it's PURE AND UNADULTERATED MEDIA HYPE -> and you're LAPPING IT UP.

Morons.

Since the choice appears to be

[Anonymous Coward]

between Apple having a monopoly and Microsoft having a monopoly, then yeah. The market has already made it clear that online music stores that sell unencumbered mp3s are just not going to be an option.

Variety is good, folks

Then you had better hope Microsoft fails.

Even less partly true...

[efatapo]

Microsoft reiterated that they are not backing away from their original assertion that the device has the "feel and the look of an iPod"

I know it's asking way too much to read the article, and even the teaser has it wrong. What Microsoft has said is: "I've spent time with a bunch of hardware manufacturers who will launch hardware products when we ship our service that will look and feel as good as the iPod product."

Looking and feeling as good is a lot different then having the look and feel of an iPod. That negates all of the patent issues that everyone is complaining about.

Re:Even less partly true...

[drinkypoo]

I know it's asking way too much to have a sense of humor... But fuck, have a sense of humor. Besides, I doubt there's any meaningful non-bypassable patents in the iPod anyway.

Re:Microsoft wouldn't know look-and-feel if it bit

[FunWithHeadlines]

Oops, when I wrote, "make someone as sexy as an iPod," I meant to write "something" instead. Although, now that I think about it, the way I originally wrote it is probably just the way marketing droids think...

No $50 iPod Clone From Microsoft

[RAMMS EIN]

And in other news:

No $2500 Diablo Clone From Toyota

Re:What picture does the fake google link really s

[Anonymous Coward]

the link is a large picture of Sony's My First Sony line of crappy children's audio devices. It's safe.

Or...

[OgTheBarbarian]

Who wants a $50 'Billy' or 'Ballmer' clone. Own them, before they OWN YOU!

Re:Microsoft wouldn't know look-and-feel if it bit

[mrchaotica]

Well, Microsoft hardware is less clunky (for example, the intellimouse explorer)

Maybe Justin Frankel could design it

[mgkimsal2]

After all, it is "NOT THAT HARD" :)

Here is more info

Re:Maybe Justin Frankel could design it

[Anonymous Coward]

Yer momma said the same thing to me last night, biatch!

My idea, the LPod

[Orion Blastar]

Use Linux for a cheap hand held device. Use VideoLAN to play media files. Hack the interface to work on a B&W 640x480 LCD screen, with optional S-Video output jack to play on a TV set or other media device. Use buttons to control the interface, but provide USB ports to plug in mice, keyboards, etc. Use Firewire or Ethernet to communicate with a PC to transfer files. Find cheap PIM software to use it like a PDA as well. Perhaps it can be priced under the cost of an iPod?

Re:My idea, the LPod

[evilviper]

Use Linux for a cheap hand held device.

If you're using linux, the device isn't going to be inexpensive. A full-fledged OS introduces a lot of overhead. So much so that the Linux on iPod project has spent much time optomizing just to try and get the iPod to do realtime MP3 decoding.

Using VideoLAN would introduce a lot more overhead.

Adding a very large LCD screen is going to make it more expensive. Making it a USB host device is going to make it more expensive. Adding firewire/ethernet is going to make it more expensive.

Pretty much, you've just invented a Linux PDA with a hard drive. And no, there's no way in hell it could be cheaper than an iPod.

Attn Denver Post

[Anonymous Coward]

Other important news stories you missed this week:

Chihuahua's are actually large rats, not dogs, thanks to DNA testing

Rumsfeld banned digital cameras in Iraq

"Mission Accomplished!"

Please pay more attention to important news stories, Denver Post. Don't let that "fact checking" thing get in your way. The people must know.

Yes, they have.

[grahamlee]

It's called the XPod, and a thorough and unbiased review is available here.

Re:Yes, they have.

[Mathness]

And trying to get any media out of the device, is nearly impossible:

User: "Open the XPod hatch, dammit"
XPod: "I am sorry, I can't do that Dave"

In Other News...

[Anonymous Coward]

No $10 Laser-firing robot from Microsoft either!

Portable Media Center

[kevlar]

Maybe they're talking about the Portable Media Center. Its basically a device with a PocketPC size screen that has super high resolution. Plays movies, mp3s, etc.

Re:That would still be $150

[shokk]

That depends on the GB you get for $150. Keep in mind that Microsoft can get insanely expensive in the realm of handhelds and tablet PCs, and this would be no different. Still, if they *really* want to spank Apple, I'll be glad to take one for really cheap so long as it played all formats without any stupid DRM-only type restrictions. I have a large CD collection that I've ripped and stored and don't want to go through that all over again because they want WMA-only. Otherwise, I'm springing for the iPod. Stay tuned.

I smell a rat

[inkswamp]

Who wants to bet that this false story originated with MS? Seems they're getting a lot of free press out of circulating and then denying it and they still get a residual effect from the standard "don't spend your money on the other guys 'cuz we got something great coming soon... real soon" FUD.

Re:That would still be $150

[anonicon]

"That depends on the GB you get for $150. Keep in mind that Microsoft can get insanely expensive in the realm of handhelds and tablet PCs, and this would be no different."

I'm guessing that unless they go with a hard drive solution in the 20-60gb range, they'll be hard pressed to match the price of the 4GB compact-flash iPod mini at $249 unless they feel like starting yet another loss-leader device (like their Xbox). Good point about MS tech in PDAs - except for the Dell Axim, most Pocket PCs are pretty expensive.

"Still, if they *really* want to spank Apple, I'll be glad to take one for really cheap so long as it played all formats without any stupid DRM-only type restrictions."

With Microsoft being what they are, I doubt they'll participate in any music service that doesn't have DRM, especially when you figure that the music rights holders will insist on it for fear of loss to 'theft.' Now, if I were competing with MS, I *might* shit my pants if they could get sign-off on non-DRM music from the labels since no one else is doing that besides eMusic. Combining non-DRM music with WMA would be a major selling point for people who otherwise wouldn't give a sh*t about WMA. Luckily, does anyone really see that happening?

"I have a large CD collection that I've ripped and stored and don't want to go through that all over again because they want WMA-only."

Well, besides iTunes and eMusic, all the other services have been stupid enough to go with really lame DRM formats that are a pain in the ass. If those others are dumb enough to do that, why wouldn't MS? Fortunately, going that route would designate them to the same 2nd-tier status that Apple's competitors exist in.

Otherwise, I'm springing for the iPod.

Small tip - buy Apple Care for $59 for your device, it gives you 36 months' coverage after your battery has probably died within 12-18 months. Otherwise, after your 12 months of basic coverage ends, you're looking at $99 to have Apple replace the battery. With the Apple Care, you won't have to pay to replace the battery until after 3 years expire.

Chuck

what exactly is an "iPod clone"?

[hak1du]

There are lots of hard-disk based MP3 players. What exactly is an "iPod clone"? Something with that funny wheel in front? Or any slim MP3 player?

What is up with MS?

[rspress]

How come there have been so many conflicting reports coming out of Redmond lately? It seems like one person will make an announcement and the next day another spokesman is out there revoking the previous statement.

The last two that really spring to mind are the iPod story and the XP SP2 release for pirates. What is worse is the way the second press release handles the first one. Microsoft never admits to the mistake in the first place and then covers that with some of the stupidest spin I have ever heard, often it makes absolutely no sense and almost always never relates other than on the surface to the first release.

Either Ballmer has stopped taking his medication or he has been taking way too much. It might be time for Bill to arrange a little accident in the warehouse.

Re:What is up with MS?

[Socket Scientist]

Another recent example of this was the story over feature cuts to Longhorn. They way they fell over themselves denying that any important promised features would be missing was comical as hell :-)

Re:What is up with MS?

[rspress]

And a lot of those features that are staying are those that have been around in OS X for at least a year now.

It seems that Microsoft is in the same spot that Apple was when it was trying to develop Rhapsody. Back then you could get different answers from every Apple spokesman. This is the way MS sounds now. Gotta wonder what Ballmer is doing, if anything.

Re:YES BUT...

[Anonymous Coward]

can it run CVS?

I am getting tired of my XBOX.

Your posting history

[Anonymous Coward]

Your posting history is a thing of beauty. I can tell you get a lot of love.

Two in the hand...

[joebolte]

What the hell is up with microsoft fanboys getting excited that something coming out in the definite futue will be better than what apple has now? Longhorn will be soo much better than Panther, by the time we have Tabby or whatever it will be in 2069.
Somehting coming out soon will be better than the concept Apple came out with years ago. There are rumors that Apple is going to support video play-back and hosting your home directory, so you can have all your files and prefs from any mac. Then Microsoft will come out with something thatthat has some craptastic file-syncing interface for fifty bucks less and call it "the same look and feel."

Not really true at all.

[SuperKendall]

Is ot 98Se still the dominant OS out there? I'll bet to date they've sold a lot more 98Se copies than XP.

The difference is...

[SuperKendall]

That whoever is making the "iPod" killer will not have the billions of cash reserves behind them when making the device.

It means they would be less likely to be able to sell such a device for a century or two at a steep loss (like a $300 player being sold for $50).

I'm sure Microsoft is heavily involved in design of at least a few players though. so they have input from the design standpoint. But rarely has that been a strong area for them.

Just what the world needs...

[bpatterson]

Man, I'm sure looking forward to the day where my MP3 player can get viruses and spread spam around the world just like my computer.

Free Ad

[Sinful_Shirts]

Microsoft just needs to modify this ad a little. iPod Parody with Ballmer

Refreshing

[rixstep]

More and more we're being treated to refreshing entertainment as MS in one way or another screws up. It makes life worth living again.

What I'd really like is an authentic story from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer that Bill Gates stepped in some dogshit and slipped and got really dirty.

And that at the same time it was raining.

And he was heard to curse loudly and rudely.

And that he insulted and pushed an old lady who tried to help.

And that his children disown him - even the one in a state correctional institution and the other in drug rehab and the third in Weight Watchers trying desperately to get back under the 300 lb mark - and his wife leaves him for a Puerto Rican Lesbian lover.

About then I'd be feeling good again.

All I'd really need after that was a new story about how Steve Ballmer was arrested in a gay club soliciting sex.

Re:That would still be $150

[timmyf2371]

Well, besides iTunes and eMusic, all the other services have been stupid enough to go with really lame DRM formats that are a pain in the ass. If those others are dumb enough to do that, why wouldn't MS? Fortunately, going that route would designate them to the same 2nd-tier status that Apple's competitors exist in.

Try Napster. Just like iTunes, it uses DRM. However, if you choose to purchase a track you can burn it and then re-encode it, just like you can with iTunes tracks.

Slashdot subsumed Denver Post?

[Anonymous Coward]

"In a previous Slashdot story, the Denver Post ran an article ..."

It's really about distribution and merchandising

[ispland]

What Microsoft will do that Apple has not, is have these products over-distributed thru mass market consumer electronics retailers. This will bring these players to the mainstream consumer.

Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City and consumer electronics website will feature these devices in large, prominent displays supported by lots of ads. There will be lots of discounting and maybe even some loss leader deals, perhaps some package deals with discounted downloads and/or other items.

That's what MS's marketing and merchandising savvy did for PC's and software. It brought the products to everyone and prices dropped as volume increased. Once the market was "made", more devices from other vendors come forth to compete and prices dropped further.

Sure MS made a bundle, and so did a lot of other vendors. But consumers got a product that they wanted. Not a bad tradeoff if you ask me.

iPod, smiPod I found OGG

[humantypo]

While the iPod looks cool and all it has some limitations that I am not willing to live with. I recently purchased one of these:

http://reviews.cnet.com/iRiver_iHP_120/4505-6490_7 -30571493-2.html

and am glad to finally have found a legitimate player that supports Ogg (in addition to MP3 and WMV). Not only that but it has FM, can record voice and isn't encumbered with a bunch of proprietary DRM junk. 16 hours on a single charge is nothing to sneeze at either.

No, it isn't anywhere near $50, but there is no way 20GB of music storage is going to be sub $100 any time soon.

Music Service (MS) Entry is Typical of MS

[papaTango]

We've talked alot about the iPod, but not much about Mehdi's comment "...when we ship our service..." which I assume refers to their equivalent of the iTunes Music Store (iTMS) and other follow-ons. If Mehdi's comment has any basis in fact, then we should be discussing what will happen when MS introduces it's service, not when they supposed introduce some nebulous iPod clone.

With that in mind, we can look at the entire comment in another light. To me, the implication is that the service they introduce will, by design, not be compatible with the iPod. Why else would Mehdi be spending time "...with a bunch of hardware manufacturers who will launch hardware products when we ship our service..."?

What is more, we should wonder why MS would introduce only a MS (music service) when Jobs repeatedly says that iTMS alone doesn't make money, a premise which FrankenNapster seems to be proving out. Is it the tie-ins (like Apple's recent tie-in with Westin Hotels)? Is the draw that music has on people that might be so strong as to get them to switch platforms? Or is it that MS can't afford to cede Market Share (MS) in any major market to anyone? When the price per song goes up -- and it will, no matter who is involved -- the one who holds the largest MS (music service) will make the most money. MS will be competing with AOL as much as they will with Apple when they introduce MSMS.

And while I'm at it, one more point. MS's (Microsoft's) entry into MSs (music services) is typical of the strategy they have employed for decades:

• 1) Let someone else develop a product
• 2) Let someone else develop the market for it
• 3) Make a workable knock-off of the product
• 4) Sell it cheaper* with heavy marketing and the good ol' compatibility argument while using customers as beta testers
• 5) Profit on market share (MS) and volume

Zero product- and market-development costs mean a bigger bottom line. Coca Cola does it (Mr. Pibb, the whole Fanta line), and so does MS (QDOS, the windows paradigm, MultiPlan/Excel, Word, etc., etc., etc.). Copyright and patent laws were intended to promote innovation by giving small concerns a fighting chance against knock-off artists, but that apparently wasn't enough, so anti-trust laws were established. But when neither are wisely enforced, the knock-off artists flourish, whether they exist in Asia or here.

* The cheap price comes from capital flowing from other parts of the company. Let's see MS try to run their music service as an arms-length subsidiary or even a separately-accounted division.