Apple Music Store Coming to Europe & iTunes in China

frankie writes "As reported everywhere, Apple is holding a press conference in London on Tuesday June 15. The entirely un-subtle official sound bite is "the biggest story in music is about to get even bigger", not what we've come to expect from Lord Steve." Or read through the Reuters report. In other news, it appears that Apple has struck a deal with China's second larger computer manufacturer to preinstall iTunes.

Comments

double standards?

[Starla LeSalle]

While I'm sure it's all fine and dandy that Apple is now bringing more capitalism to China, you have to think, if Microsoft was doing this with Windows Media Player, you guys would be having a fit. There's a lot of double standards when it comes to Apple and Microsoft, and personally, I think that if given the right circumstances, Apple would've made all the same anticompetitive decisions that Microsoft has. Not that I'm denouncing either. It's a cut-throat world and you've gotta survive and thrive.

Then again, what do the chinese listen to, anyway?

Re:double standards?

[whiteSanjuro]

ughhh...music?

Re: double standards?

[Dlugar]

The big issue, stated time and again, is that Microsoft has a desktop monopoly, so they can't bundle the same things that others can. If Apple were in a monopoly position, you can bet your bottom dollar that the Slashdot crowd would be hollering just as loud as they do against Microsoft (which isn't, incidentally, that loud).

It doesn't have anything to do with the mysterious anti-Microsoft pro-Apple conspiracy. People just like rooting for the underdog, even if the underdog would be just as Evile as the top dog if/when given the chance.

Dlugar

Re:double standards?

[The Lost Supertone]

Microsoft has already done this with media player, only they didn't strike up any deals, they just said OK yah this will be on your computers now because it's part of windows. They did the same thing with IE. Only what everyone got pissed off with IE about was the fact that they told people, hey you can have Windows with IE but you can't put netscape on your computers. Otherwise you can't have either. Apple isn't telling any companies to take out media player.

Re:double standards?

[millahtime]

not quite. Are they running OS X with iTunes? Nope, it'll be a M$ based system with iTunes as a 3rd party software. That is the difference.

Re:double standards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you so stupid?

Re: double standards?

[bladernr]

People just like rooting for the underdog, even if the underdog would be just as Evile as the top dog if/when given the chance.

Which begs the question: What will community consensus say if Linux continues on its current trajectory and achieves enough market share to be considered a monopoly in certain markets, like service operating systems? Would the community turn against Linux and root for the underdogs, namely *BSD, Apple, and Microsoft?

Re:double standards?

[diamondsw]

The major difference has been past behavior. Microsoft has shown time and time again that they will happily screw over their customers every chance they get to maintain their power and profits. While Apple is also a for-profit corporation, their history has shown from the very, very beginning a different philosophy of "changing the world" and making it a better place (as lofty a goal as that may be).

For instance, while we agree DRM is a Bad Thing, if we accept that it is a prerequisite for successful online distribution of music, which would you rather have? Apple's terms or Microsoft's? Who has fought as much as possible for liberal licensing terms (and not opened their stores without them)? What about Apple fighting royalties on MPEG-4 licensing and not releasing Quicktime 6 until they were settled?

Apple has a much better track record of working with us and for us than Microsoft, and as such they get our support.

Re: double standards?

[phazethru]

Probably not. The sheer number of distros would ensure that, while 'linux' may have majority market share, a single distro would never gain enough to be considered a monopoly.

The other point that I think needs to be made is that we're talking about bundling software. If, ?somehow?, linux manages to bundle some software with a required portion of the OS (kernel wont load without mozilla, lets say) then most definitely there will be an outcry. I would expect riots, defections to *BSD, and lonely men all over the globe having nothing to do on the weekends.

I also expect that this is why such a bundling wont happen. It's bad karma to anger your entire user base.

Re:double standards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then again, what do the chinese listen to, anyway?

Probably trance and progressive... I know a LOT of Asians into this type of music.

Re:double standards?

[aristotle-dude]

Apple supports open source and contributes to existing open source projects.

Re: double standards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple struck a deal to bundle their app with hardware. That's not a problem, MS can do that also. The point is that MS uses its monopoly somewhere else to FORCE bundling of OTHER APPS and prohibiting the bundling of anything MS.

Re: double standards?

[N3koFever]

If Apple isn't in the monopoly position when it comes to desktops how about in the MP3 player market? The masses keep buying iPods in the face of superior competition from the likes of iRiver, Rio, and even Dell for god's sake, but Apple refuse to let anyone use their proprietary DRM that they've wrapped around the AAC format except themselves. Rumours abound that MS are bringing our their own "iPod killer" but the difference is that MS will licence the DRM in their WMA format to anyone who wants it, including Apple, and have stated this in the past.

Re:double standards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? All of the chinese foreign students I know listen to celine dion & bon jovi.

Re: double standards?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Which begs the question

No it doesn't. It raises the question.

"Begging the question" is a type of logical fallacy. Stop using big-boy phrases that you don't understand.

More news!

[Mz6]

"In other news, it appears that Apple has struck a deal with China's second larger computer manufacturer to preinstall iTunes."

In related news, Microsoft's appeal to the EU has been leaked to the press. It seems to consist of an attack against Apple. "Hey, if Apple can preload their iTunes "media player", why can't we? We should be able to do it too!", said an anonymous source close to the Microsoft legal team. Many legal experts seem to think Microsoft 5-year old kid "If he can do it, I can do it to" antics will fail miserably.

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

Well really, what _is_ the difference? The argument seems to be "well if Microsoft bundles [software], whenever people think of [computing task], they will think [software] is the only way to do it because people are too lazy to download software if it's already bundled." See, for example, IE.

It looks like the same basic thing is happening, but with iTunes instead. To however many millions of Chinese people who buy these computers, iTunes will become synonymous with "buying|playing digital music". And, since the number one online music store software will be pre-installed on their computers, they won't bother seeking alternatives, effectively allowing iTunes to monopolize (if you will) the online music market in China (at least). So... I'm not really sure why all the anti-monopoly folks on Slashdot aren't bitching and complaining about this move. Well, if Slashdot wasn't a highly hypocritical community, that is...

Re:More news!

[pubjames]

Well really, what _is_ the difference?

Microsoft has a monopoly. Apple doesn't.

That's it. Different rules apply if you have a monopoly. Microsoft may consider this "unfair", but there are good reasons for it.

Re:More news!

[Durandal64]

Oh yeah, striking a deal with manufacturers to bundle your software is exactly the same as leveraging your desktop monopoly to force your other software on users and then using a license to prohibit manufacturers from putting any competing products on their machines. Tell me, what part of the article says that Apple's license prohibits the manufacturer from putting RealPlayer on there as well? Since when is it impossible to remove iTunes from either Mac OS X or Windows?

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

Monopoly on what, exactly? Just the OS itself? I fail to see how that should limit what applications go into the OS. Microsoft is a monopoly, so they shouldn't be allowed to bundle notepad or solitaire, right? See, that doesn't make any sense.

And neither does this situation. What's the difference between Windows + Media Player (what we have now) and Windows + iTunes (which is what this bundle will create)? You're just substituting one media player for another. The net effect is the same: whichever one is bundled with Windows will end up dominating. If Microsoft isn't allowed to use its OS monopoly, then Apple shouldn't either.

Re:More news!

[pubjames]

I fail to see...

Read up on antitrust laws and why they exist.

Re:More news!

[jkabbe]

If Microsoft isn't allowed to use its OS monopoly, then Apple shouldn't either.

Apple is cutting independant deals with computer manufacturers based on the quality of its product.

Microsoft is forcing computer manufacturers to ship the Windows Media Player whether they want to or not.

So, no, Microsoft is the only company using the leverage provided by the Windows OS monopoly.

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

Oh yeah, striking a deal with manufacturers to bundle your software is exactly the same as leveraging your desktop monopoly to force your other software on users

Apple's effectively got a monopoly on Apple hardware Operating Systems, so wouldn't you say they're basically forcing QuickTime and iTunes (I think that's bundled with OS X... if not, it probably will be soon) on users? Explain why this is OK.

then using a license to prohibit manufacturers from putting any competing products on their machines

Last time I looked at an HP machine there was all sorts of crazy third party software on there, like MusicMatch Jukebox and whatnot.

Tell me, what part of the article says that Apple's license prohibits the manufacturer from putting RealPlayer on there as well?

Has anyone actually tried having Apple bundle RealPlayer with OS X? I have a feeling you'll find out that Apple won't let Real do that...

Since when is it impossible to remove iTunes from either Mac OS X or Windows?

I know Slashdotters guffaw at the mention of WMP and IE being "essential" Windows components, but the reality is that it's true, to an extent. MS built in APIs for doing HTML rendering and Media playback which, surprise, surprise, rely on the IE and WMP cores. Nothing inherently evil in that, after all, if you want to use KDE's HTML rendering APIs you've gotta use code developed for Konqueror to do it (to draw an analogy). Now if you were to completely gut Windows of IE and WMP, the problem is that all applications (MS and 3rd party) relying on those components would break in varying ways. In that regard, those two applications are quite essential to normal Windows operation.

Re:More news!

[Kenja]

According to you they exist to give one and only one competitor an advantage over everyone else. In this case its Apple getting a leg up on any other music vendor. In my opinion, this is the exact opposite of what the anti trust laws where intended to do.

Re:More news!

[Mz6]

Since Microsoft has the market share in the OS market, they have a monopoly. Because of their monopoly, they are forcing the user to use that media player or use that Internet Explorer. The problem lies in the fact that MIcrosoft essentially wrapped their OS around Media Player.

For an example, in 2000/XP just browsing through the folders and highliting a movie/music file will bring up the Media Player preview on the left hadn side. There is really no way to get rid of that.. They user is still using their Media Player. This is why it's being required to be unbundled. Now.. when previewing a file I don't get to see solitaire or notepad as it's not actually integrated with the OS.

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

Apple is cutting independant deals with computer manufacturers based on the quality of its product.

Money has nothing to do with it, I'm sure.

So, no, Microsoft is the only company using the leverage provided by the Windows OS monopoly.

How do you figure? Isn't Apple leveraging the enormous popularity of Windows and cheap PC prices (as opposed to Apple hardware prices, which I'm guessing don't fly so well in China) to get iTunes installed on as many Chinese computers as possible?

Again, imagine this situation: Microsoft ships Windows with no WMP, only iTunes. Again, is this wrong? Would you be complaining about this?

Microsoft is forcing computer manufacturers to ship the Windows Media Player whether they want to or not.

And they're forcing them to ship system32.dll whether the manufacturers want to or not. I've got news for you -- the only "absolutely essential" part of any OS is the kernel, the rest is all in-house apps that are effectively being "forced" on whoever is reselling the OS in the name of creating a more useful system.

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

Now.. when previewing a file I don't get to see solitaire or notepad as it's not actually integrated with the OS.

Notepad.exe is the default viewer for text files, it just not something you see in explorer.

And as far as media previewing goes, KDE and GNOME have similar functionality, for example. I think most users expect a modern OS to do some sort of previewing in the file manager. Microsoft has to have some sort of application for which to do the previewing, don't you think? And while it would be possible to make other media players hook into the previewing API that WMP uses, there's no guarantee, and hence with a "pluggable" previewing architecture there's no guarantee that the user will have a consistent experience with previewing (that is, no guarantee that it will always work). So, Microsoft opted to have their media player bundled to accomplish this task (and furthermore make the core parts uninstallable... makes sense). If you're really so concerned about WMP, you can easily delete the "wrapper" application, and leave just the core behind.

Re:More news!

[jkabbe]

How do you figure? Isn't Apple leveraging the enormous popularity of Windows and cheap PC prices (as opposed to Apple hardware prices, which I'm guessing don't fly so well in China) to get iTunes installed on as many Chinese computers as possible?

Your logic is still incredibly faulty.

Hopefully these questions will help clarify the matter:

Does the fact that Microsoft has a monopoly in the OS guarantee that Apple will be able to install iTunes on all PCs sold with Windows?

Does the fact that Microsoft has a monopoly in the OS guarantee that Microsoft will be able to install WMP on all PCs sold with Windows?

For the record, I am not advocating forcing Microsoft to remove WMP from Windows (I would much rather see them forced to open the codecs). I am just explaining how they are leveraging the OS and why the same argument does not apply to others.

If you can't see the difference you're obviously beyond help.

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

Does the fact that Microsoft has a monopoly in the OS guarantee that Apple will be able to install iTunes on all PCs sold with Windows?

Not all Windows PCs, but the fact that iTunes is being bundled with the most popular OS allows it to reach a much wider audience (at least in China) than normally possible, correct? I would say in that regard they are leveraging the popularity of Windows to gain a foothold. And either way, they're doing the SAME thing that WMP is doing: by being one of the "default" media players, users are discouraged from seeking out alternatives. Hence, this action will presumably lead to iTunes dominating Chinese online music sales. Again, if this isn't OK for Microsoft to do, why is it OK for Apple?

Re:More news!

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Apple's effectively got a monopoly on Apple hardware Operating Systems, so wouldn't you say they're basically forcing QuickTime and iTunes (I think that's bundled with OS X... if not, it probably will be soon) on users? Explain why this is OK.

This particular argument -- "Apple has a monopoly on Apple products" -- comes up often enough that it's worth a separate refutation. Trivially, of course, it's true; Apple does have a monopoly on Macs, OS X, the iPod, etc. And Ford has a monopoly on Ford cars, and McDonalds has a monopoly on Big Macs, and ...

But of course none of these companies are monopolies, because the concept of a monopoly is valid only in a particular product space. Apple isn't competing against Apple; it's competing against Microsoft and Dell and HP and Sony. Similarly, Ford is competing against other car companies, and McDonalds is competing against other fast-food restaurants. Right now, Microsoft is the monopoly in the desktop OS space; to claim that Apple, or anyone else, holds such a position is absurd.

Re:More news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Apple ***IS NOT guaranteed*** to get iTunes installed on all PCs sold with Windows. Conversely, if MS bundles WMP it ***IS guarenteed*** to have it's played installed on all PCs sold with Windows. The difference is Apple has no guarantee while MS has a guarantee because of it's monopoly status. Preventing monopolistic behavior is good for consumers (it increases competition) but bad for monopolies (it forces a competitive situation). If you're pro-monopoly then you're also pro-paying Standard Oil $10/gallon for fueld and paying $500/month in long distance fees to Bell. The only people with a vested interest in seeing MS's monopoly protected either work there or have a position in MS stock.

Re:More news!

[macmaniac]

Monopoly on what, exactly? Just the OS itself? I fail to see how that should limit what applications go into the OS. Microsoft is a monopoly, so they shouldn't be allowed to bundle notepad or solitaire, right? See, that doesn't make any sense.

And neither does this situation. What's the difference between Windows + Media Player (what we have now) and Windows + iTunes (which is what this bundle will create)? You're just substituting one media player for another. The net effect is the same: whichever one is bundled with Windows will end up dominating. If Microsoft isn't allowed to use its OS monopoly, then Apple shouldn't either.

The major difference, I believe, is that iTunes does not displace Windows Media Player, since that comes with the operating system already. It simply is pre-installed onto the machines in addition, with prominent icons on the desktop.

What you'll actually have, unless the Chinese manufacturer found a way around it, is Windows + Media Player + iTunes, which is not substitution but supplementation.

Re:More news!

[2nd Post!]

Because Apple can't force your hand by raising prices of Windows licenses if you don't bundle iTunes.

Microsoft can force your hand by raising the price of Windows licenses, or threatening to not sell you Windows licenses, if you bundle a competitor's product. And please note, this has happened to Compaq, BeOS, Netscape, and other companies.

Since when has Apple been able to discourage users from seeking out other media players through legal and contractual means? Microsoft can, through it's monopoly status. Apple can't. Well, they can try, by saying, "If you bundle WMP or Real on your PC, each copy of iTunesPC will cost you $1; if you don't, then iTunesPC will be free."

The difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Microsoft can charge $40 and still get their way, because as a monopoly they can set their own pricing. Apple, as *not* a monopoly, can't set the prices any way they want.

Re:More news!

[Anonymous Coward]

...For an example, in 2000/XP just browsing through the folders and highliting a movie/music file will bring up the Media Player preview on the left hadn side...

It does? I guess you have that "feature" enabled, Active Desktop. Disable it. I have, and its added stability to 2k.

Re:More news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's effectively got a monopoly on Apple hardware Operating Systems, so wouldn't you say they're basically forcing QuickTime and iTunes (I think that's bundled with OS X... if not, it probably will be soon) on users? Explain why this is OK.

You are a moron.

You can argue for or against the antitrust laws, but you make NO headway in any argument if you change (or try to) change the meaning of words.

There is no such thing as a monopoly of "Apple products". By your lame definition - everyone is a monopoly of everything they make. I could produce a single paper clip and suddenly I'm a monopoly of AC paper clips?!?

Like it or not there is a legal meaning of the word monopoly, and it has been proven in court that Microsoft *IS* a monopoly. And there are things that monopolies are not allowed to do that are perfectly fine for other companies to do.

Re:More news!

[jkabbe]

It's not the same. You are missing the difference between "available for" (iTunes) and "always present in" (WMP).

As of today I believe there are only two manufacturers that are shipping iTunes (HP/Compaq and now Founder). That's a very small percentage of the overall Windows shipments.

WMP on the other hand is on every single computer with Windows box shipped by every single computer manufacturer in the world.

That's a huge difference and one which you are trivializing.

Yes, there is leverage in the fact that Windows is everywhere. This allows application developers to write for one platform and reach a wide audience. This leverage is shared by Microsoft and all other application developers. What you are wrongfully dismissing is the fact that Microsoft has additional leverage.

And you also seem to be stuck in the rut of assuming that I am arguing against the current situation. I am not arguing that one is OK and the other is not. I simply pointing out how completely wrong you are in equating the two situations.

Re:More news!

[Erwos]

Microsoft DOES NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY. How many times will this myth be repeated on /.?

Microsoft does not have a monopoly on the OS because there are SUBSTITUTES to Windows, namely {your favorite Linux distro} and MacOS X. Microsoft _cannot_ act as a monopolist and drive prices into the stratosphere because people would simply move, and products would get ported.

Microsoft is big, and they sometimes act in a monopolistic fashion (which they were convicted for!), but they are not a monopoly. It is far more accurate to say that they act like a monopoly with anti-competitive business actions and policies.

-Erwos

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

Apple is ***GUARANTEED*** to get iTunes installed on all PCs sold with Windows through the distributor(s) they made a deal with. Why is that so hard to understand? It's not ALL PCs shipping with Windows, but if Apple gets iTunes bundled with all or nearly all Chinense PC manufacturers, then for all intents and purposes they are guaranteed to get iTunes bundled with every Chinese PC, no?

Re:More news!

[squiggleslash]

No, they exist to give one, and only one competitor a disadvantage over everyone else, that competitor being the one that owns 95% of the market, having an entrenched monopoly due to factors other than simply having the best product.

Apple isn't being given a leg up over any other music vendor by the EU. If Napster had made the deal in China, or made a deal with Dell, or made a deal with anyone, or if Real had done likewise, it wouldn't be treated as any different to that of Apple.

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

... But PCs and Macs are generally considered the two big consumer computing platforms, and in that regard Apple DOES have a monopoly of their part of the computing world, and is able to force their products on Apple users through THEIR OS monopoly.

Re:More news!

[Quikah]

The fact that MS has a monopoly has no beering on wether WMP is installed on a PC sold with Windows. MS made windows so they include WMP with it. This would be true if they had a monopoly or not.

Re:More news!

[MoneyT]

Except the following:

A: Apple is the only manufacturer of Apple computers

B: Apple is a hardware company

If you get an Apple computer, you get an Apple OS. Microsoft does not make computers. There is no Microsoft Computer. If microsoft made a computer and bundled the crap out of it, that wouldn't be a problem. It's microsoft computer. However, I can go to the store and get a Dell, or and HP, or a whatever and they're all seperate machines that DON"T come from microsoft. All of them will have windows however, because in order for these companies to be competative, they have to sell Windows. As such, because of the nature of the market, windows has a monopoly on x86 computers, and a near monopoly on Personal Computers. Apple has no such thing. There is one Aple computer vendor, that is Apple themselves. They have no monopoly on the PPC market, and they have no monopoly on the PC market. They sell Apple computers, and Apple computers come with Apple software.

Do you see the difference yet?

Re:More news!

[jkabbe]

The fact that MS has a monopoly has no beering on wether WMP is installed on a PC sold with Windows. MS made windows so they include WMP with it. This would be true if they had a monopoly or not.

I understand your point and perhaps I should have worded it better. However, in one sense what you say is not entirely true. Companies without a monopoly that are facing stiff competition are often more willing to work with the companies on which they rely.

So if Windows had 30% marketshare and the largest seller of PCs approached MS and wanted to ship windows, but without the media player, don't you think MS would try to accomodate?

The fact is, as a monopoly you don't have to accomodate. The monopoly gives them the leverage to dictate terms.

Re:More news!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is nonsense. The court determined they did have a monopoly.

Re:More news!

[peragrin]

Apple is only Guaranteed to have iTunes installed with the distributors that they make deals with. MS is Guaranteed every time a PC is sold. Why is it you must buy a pc with windows? Try getting a Laptop out of Dell without windows, or without WMP. I don't use either unless I have to. iTunes may ship with HP's but not Dell's. WMP will ship with both no matter what. Difference HP & Dell have a choice on whether to include iTunes, neither have a choice with MS.

See the difference you have a choice. Monopolies prevent choice by default. No monopoly has survived choice. If you don't like choice then walk away as you won't understand any of the greater things in life.

Re:More news!

[JamieF]

You really need to study the details of the Microsoft monopoly lawsuit, and study up on antitrust law in general, because it's obvious that you haven't.

Microsoft has a monopoly. That has been proven in a court of law. What has also been proven in a court of law is that they abused this monopoly by using anti-competitive practices to make sure that they were in complete control of what was and wasn't installed on top of Windows by system vendors.

Your argument is the same one that Microsoft used. "Poor, poor users - if we let competitors or OEMs change Windows, the poor users won't get the best, most consistent user experience!" Of course this is question-begging: this argument assumes that Microsoft provides the best, most "consistent" user interface, and there's no evidence to the contrary because no one is allowed to rip out chunks of Windows and replace them with Gecko and VLC etc. or just leave those apps out, because Microsoft will revoke their OEM license.

What an end user can do with one PC to tailor it to their needs is not the issue. What an OEM is being prevented from doing on behalf of all of their customers is the issue.

As for Apple somehow having an iTunes monolpoly, you're confusing PC vendors (none of whom have a monopoly, at least in the US) with Microsoft, and anti-competitive practices with competitive practices. If Apple were able to strongarm all PC vendors into not installing WMP or RealPlayer or WinAmp or MusicMatch (etc. etc.) as a condition of installing iTunes, using an iTunes (or other Apple product) monopoly as leverage, that would be comparable to Microsoft's illegal anticompetitive monopolistic practices. Instead, the news that one PC vendor has chosen to preload iTunes doesn't mean that WMP will not be installed, and doesn't in any way give Apple a monopoly on music apps or denote illegal anticompetitive practices.

Re:More news!

[Daniel Dvorkin]

There is no "[Apple] part of the computing world." There is only the computing world -- or more specifically, the desktop part of the computing world -- and in that product space, Microsoft is a monopoly and no one else is. Talking about the Apple part of the computing world, I say again, makes as much sense as talking about the Ford part of the car world, or the McDonalds part of the fast-food world.

Re:More news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has a monopoly. Apple doesn't.

That's it. Different rules apply if you have a monopoly. Microsoft may consider this "unfair", but there are good reasons for it.

OK, it is time to put this argument to rest. For good. I know everyone on slashdot loves to use it, but it is faulty.

Think of it this way: If two people hit you with exactly the same force, causing exactly the same amount of pain, would you really be more angry at the larger of the two people? That's idiotic. If someone hits me and injures me I don't care what size they are, all I care about is the fact that they hit me. Liken this to Apple's DRM. People have said time and time again that if Microsoft used the EXACT same DRM as Apple does people would be screaming bloody murder. But they don't because it is Apple and they justify the double standard by saying that Microsoft is a monopoly and Apple isn't. Yes, thank you, that part is obvious. Let me remind you that DRM is DRM is DRM is DRM. The fact that Apple isn't a monopoly does not modify the comparison of two things that are exactly alike, because they are still EXACTLY alike! If the hitting example did not catch your attention then what about murder... should a person who has access to more guns (like microsoft has access to more market share) be sentenced tougher or treated differently than a person who only had access to one gun (like apple who only has access to a smaller market)? Both people committed murder, thus both people suffer the same punishment.

I think where everyone is mistaken with this argument is that 'the rules' of monopolies is something that applies to law. Microsoft cannot do certain things that Apple does, by virtue of the fact that Microsoft is a monopoly. But how in the hell does that extend to mean that certain things that Microsoft could LEGALLY do are worse than the EXACT same action taken by Apple? I mean seriously, think about it for one second, if the theoretical DRMs were exactly the same, what the hell would it matter that it is Apple's DRM limiting you? The pure and simple fact is that you are being limited.

Saying that Microsoft being a monopoly makes a difference in a theoretical case where both things are the same is not a justification. It is an excuse.

Re:More news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, Apple has a near monopoly on the PPC market. How many other PPC based computer manufacturers are there? What is their market share, compared to Apple?

Re:More news!

[Anonymous Coward]

" I fail to see..."

Then you are blind.

"If Microsoft isn't allowed to use its OS monopoly, then Apple shouldn't either. "

Are you saying Apple has a monopoly? Really! Or are you saying Apple shouldn't be allowed to use Microsoft's OS monopoly? There is no law against using competitor's monopoly to popularize one's product, but there is a law against using one's monopoly to raise the barrier of entry or to destroy a competitor in another market.

Re:More news!

[ragecgi]

Read up on antitrust laws and why they exist.

Which is exactly why MS has a good point.

Either way, my next Windows OS install will EXCLUDE ANYTHING Apple-related. Period.

Re:More news!

[Durandal64]

Apple's effectively got a monopoly on Apple hardware Operating Systems

Well gee, no shit Sherlock. By that idiotic definition, every company has a monopoly on their own products. Give me a break.

, so wouldn't you say they're basically forcing QuickTime and iTunes (I think that's bundled with OS X... if not, it probably will be soon) on users? Explain why this is OK.

Unlike Windows Media Player, you actually can delete QuickTime Player and iTunes. Permanently. Without elaborate OS hacks. Please learn the difference between an API and an application built using that API.

Last time I looked at an HP machine there was all sorts of crazy third party software on there, like MusicMatch Jukebox and whatnot.

Don't pretend that Microsoft has never used a license to lock out competitors. That's why they were found guilty of violating anti-trust laws. Dell anyone?

Has anyone actually tried having Apple bundle RealPlayer with OS X? I have a feeling you'll find out that Apple won't let Real do that...

The two situations are not analogous. Apple distributes both the software and hardware. Microsoft only distributes the software, and it used its licenses to prevent hardware distributors from putting competing products on their machines.

I know Slashdotters guffaw at the mention of WMP and IE being "essential" Windows components, but the reality is that it's true, to an extent. MS built in APIs for doing HTML rendering and Media playback which, surprise, surprise, rely on the IE and WMP cores.

You can't remove the damned applications from Windows. That's the problem. Apple has WebKit and QuickTime frameworks on their system, but those frameworks don't rely on the presence of Apple-made binaries! That's the whole fucking point of a framework!

Nothing inherently evil in that, after all, if you want to use KDE's HTML rendering APIs you've gotta use code developed for Konqueror to do it (to draw an analogy). Now if you were to completely gut Windows of IE and WMP, the problem is that all applications (MS and 3rd party) relying on those components would break in varying ways. In that regard, those two applications are quite essential to normal Windows operation.

And whoops! You can remove Konqueror if you don't like it. You're confusing application binaries built with APIs with the actual APIs themselves, which is apparently what Microsoft did. OS X can live perfectly happily without Safari, QuickTime Player or iTunes. The frameworks will still be there so that third-party developers can use them, but you don't have to keep Apple's binaries on your system.

Re:More news!

[Cereal Box]

I know this is probably coming too late for anyone else skimming the article to see this, but in the event that you're reading this reply, consider this for your own personal edification.

You can't remove the damned applications from Windows. That's the problem.

Actually, you can. It's just a common Slashdot myth that you can't do it. Delete wmplayer.exe and iexplore.exe, and poof, no more WMP or Internet Explorer. All that remains are the cores, used for embedding WMP or IE in other applications that rely on them.

Re: More news!

[gidds]

The difference is that M$ was (is?) able to use its monopoly power to effectively force dealers to include their applications, and exclude others'. That was unfair.

Apple has no such hold over them -- they are free to include iTunes or not, and/or include other music software. It's their free choice, which is fair.

Re:More news!

[jweatherley]

Ok, Apple has a near monopoly on the PPC market. How many other PPC based computer

manufacturers are there? What is their market share, compared to Apple?

Well, there's this fly by night company.

About bloody time!

[oberondarksoul]

I've been using iTunes for Windows since release, and although I can't actually buy from the iTMS, I've found it an excellent tool for finding music I like - being able to listen to the samples directly from iTunes is a godsend. Personally, I don't see the problem with the DRM Apple use - sure, it's restrictive, but it's not as bad as some - and I can certainly see myself buying from the store upon opening.

All we need now is for Pepsi to offer free songs too...

Re:About bloody time!

[MalaclypseTheYounger]

iTunes was great, when it was free (I drink soda all the time, so got about 50 free songs from iTunes).

I haven't bought a single song since then. I'm debating signing up with Rhapsody and Real, start drinking Heineken, and get some more free songs from them...

(might be a problem replacing my Pepsi with Heineken while at work however)

Re:About bloody time!

[hype7]

want to go to the launch party?

here's a copy of the invitation

shame about the resolution, but I guess you'll have to earn your keep in photoshop! :)

-- james

Japan First?

[Rosyna]

Didn't Jobs say that Japan would be the first non-US country to get the iTMS? Or did that change somehow?

Re:Japan First?

[pmhudepo]

Well, isn't Japan in a slightly different timezone from Europe? If they both launch on June 15th, they'll still be first...

Re:Japan First?

[Paulrothrock]

He could release it worldwide and that would still be true. Japan is the one of the first places where it's the next day. So if he says "By 12:00AM Local time, you can buy from iTMS," Japan is still one of the first major countries that can do it. This might be a good way of distributing the demand.

Is this where I

[TVC15]

welcome our iTunes Overlords?

Linux client

[caston]

So does this mean that they are porting iTunes to Linux?

I doubt that Apple plans to launch iTMS China...

[Karpe]

But every machine that ships with iTunes, ships with QuickTime.

Bout Time!

[The Lost Supertone]

Holy crap nobody has replied yet! I CAN REPLY FIRST ON SLASHDOT! Least near it. Anyway this is great now all your Europeans can shut up and realize... Apple still loves you more than us Canuks.

Re:Bout Time!

[Anonymous Coward]

and Tampa Bay is gonna win that cup, eh!?!

Re:Bout Time!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Lightning is about to be humiliated in their own hometown tonight, son. Get ready to have their asses handed to them.

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Its gonna come crashing down

[Anonymous Coward]

when the Beatles get their injunction, blatent disregard to contracts and trademarks will have its consequences, just hope investors get out first

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085& sid=a6ni5OCPVzkQ&refer=europe">http://quote.bloomb erg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085&sid=a6ni5OCPVzkQ&re fer=europe

Re:Its gonna come crashing down

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

please tell me the names of artists which apple computer represents as a music label.

oh yeah, there aren't any.

please tell me the ISBN numbers of any CDs which apple computer manufactures for sale.

oh yeah, there aren't any.

apple computer is not behaving as a music label. they are behaving as a website which acts as a 3rd party for music sales.

From your link: That contract stipulated Apple Computer could use the logo for computers, data processing and telecommunications, while the Beatles could retain it for music, according to documents filed by the pop group's lawyers at the High Court.

Apple Computer is providing a massive data processing environment (iTunes Music Store) and allows people to purchase music from -other- labels through this telecommunications link.

Besides the fact that an incredibly common fruit, the apple, being trademarked is absurd in the first place.

Re:Its gonna come crashing down

[Have Blue]

The fruit isn't trademarked; the use of the fruit to sell computers trademarked. Using it to sell anything else will not get you sued.

Re:Its gonna come crashing down

[Anonymous Coward]

err cd's don't have isbn's - thats books...
Cd's have catalogue numbers

http://www.isbn.org
for more info on the former

Re:Its gonna come crashing down

[Anonymous Coward]

the beatles ? or didnt you read the article

the requirement doesnt say "label" it says music buisness and "selling music" is pretty much what the music biz do, why do you think they have lost repeatedly ? or has the law changed recently ?

the fact that you are too young to remember Apple Music and so trademarks don't matter shows your ignorance and immaturity

Besides the fact that an incredibly common fruit, the apple, being trademarked is absurd in the first place.

yeah like Windows, Passport, Mcdonalds, Sun etc etc

Re:Its gonna come crashing down

[jkabbe]

apple computer is not behaving as a music label. they are behaving as a website which acts as a 3rd party for music sales.

From your link: That contract stipulated Apple Computer could use the logo for computers, data processing and telecommunications, while the Beatles could retain it for music, according to documents filed by the pop group's lawyers at the High Court.

They could violate the trademark without acting like a label. However, notice the distinct lack of the Apple logo on the iTMS. Also notice that the iTMS used to be called the Apple Music Store but now is officially known as the iTunes Music Store.

Apple might be the name of the company, but it's clear that they are trying not to use the Apple name or logo in connection with the music store.

Re:Its gonna come crashing down

[Anonymous Writer]

I wonder if Apple is going to try and use GarageBand and Soundtrack with iTunes and the iTunes Music Store to bypass record companies altogether. You can easily upload your own iMix playlists already. The next step would be to allow artists to easily upload their own works to the iTunes Music Store directly through iTunes, and receive royalties through something similar to a PayPal account. If that were to happen, Apple could be perceived as some kind of a record label on its own.

The recording industry steadily profited from the advance of technology, allowing them to produce more elaborate music much cheaper than in the old days of analogue recording, editing, and distribution. That benefit surpassed them in favour of the the consumer when music file-sharing became feasible. Ever since then, the industry had fought technology tooth and nail, to try and keep the benefits in their hands. Now the technology reaching a point in which the record companies may be rendered totally obsolete. Apple and the record companies probably know this, but just aren't openly admitting it.

Canada SOMEDAY?

[Anonymous Coward]

What about Canada for pete's sake? Can't even use iTMS in Canada!

Canada, too!

[Synesthesiatic]

There are rumours that Apple may launch iTMS Canada at the same time. I guess that'd allow them to retain the element of surprise! Anyhoo, I've got my fingers crossed. Hopefully songs will run 99 cents CAD.

Re:Canada, too!

[The Lost Supertone]

I hope they launch in Canada! Though I've made a point of not getting a credit card... though if they start selling those iTunes cards at 7-11 or something then problem solved... it's to bad they can't do things by Interac. A friend and I recently found a song by one of our fave bands that has since broken up on the iTMS, we pirated it because it's not really available easily here, and it was on a compilation. But if we could just buy that one song Apple would have at least two more Canadian bucks in their bank.

Re:Canada, too!

[doodlelogic]

99 cents? Not likely considering the rumours are for a EURO1.50 price in the EU.

Dunno how they'll price it for the non-Euroified members of the EU though.

Why doesn't Slashdot let me type the EURO symbol?

Re:Canada, too!

[proj_2501]

does it let you use the € symbol? Let's try it: €

Re:Canada, too!

[dborod]

Given the exchange rate of the Canadian dollar I can't imagine how they could possibly affort to do this. As of this moment, it costs a Canadian $1.31CDN to buy $0.99 US.

Re:Canada, too!

[Synesthesiatic]

Actually, Puretracks (note: won't work unless you're on Windows IE, or change your User Agent) sells tracks for $0.99 CAD. If there's anything the recording industry has taught us, price is all about charging as much as they can get away with. Because 99 cents comes right before the one dollar psychological barrier, they'll likely sell a lot better than if they were over a buck.

Plus, remember that the legality of file sharing is very much in limbo here, so Canadians can be a little more fearless about downloading for free.

Re:Canada, too!

[Anonymous Coward]

€

Thanks!

Re:Canada, too!

[palpatine]

iTMS Canada will have songs at 99 cents CAD, but PLUS GST and PST or HST or QST or whatever insane sales taxes there are! Not to mention that every 5th song you buy will have to be from a Canadian-born artist. Go, Canada!

Re:Canada, too!

[Rascasse]

You're assuming that prices translate across currencies based on the exchange rate. This isn't true, especially of something as intangible as music. A lot of vending machines charge CDN$1 for a can of Coke. Head down south, and it's often US$1 for a can of Coke. Fast food joints often charge the same price in the US and Canada, except in Canada the price is in Canadian dollars. Similarly, music CDs are often priced at CDN$12.99-$17.99 and I often see the same prices but in U.S. dollars when I'm visiting down south. This is true of many goods and services, though not all. I would suspect that the vast majority of songs on iTunes Canada would be priced at CDN$0.99 with some labels greedily going for CDN$1.29 on up to $1.99.

Re:Canada, too!

[Fancia]

But CD prices are also much higher in Europe; they're about the same as Japanese CD prices, which are twice as high, or higher, than American and Canadian CD prices. It makes perfect sense to sell for that price since, in proportion to the CD price, the price is actually quite similar.

Re:Canada, too!

[iantri]

Things are generally cheaper here; Items for USD$199.99 magically become CAD$249.99, even though it is about $20 short.

Apparently, vending machine purchases are cheaper here too (Though I still think CAD$1.00 is too much for a can of pop.)

Re:Canada, too!

[willjohnson]

Are you telling me that people in Europe and Japan are paying $40 for a Brittney Spears CD? Those record executives are either geniuses or criminals, depending on how you look at it.

Re:Canada, too!

[Fancia]

The average CD price in Japan is about 2900-3000Y. That's about 26.40$ USD to 27.30$ USD, which is to my knowledge much higher than normal US CD prices. In Canadian dollars, that's about 35.54$ to 36.77$. To my knowledge, European CD prices are about the same. And that's the *average* CD price, not the price for weird obscure CDs. A CD single with three or four songs, in Japan, costs about the same as a somewhat cheap (12$) CD in Canada.

Stupid recursion

[krem81]

I click on that Google News link, and lo and behold: this story on Slashdot is the first article in the list. So naturally, I click on that...

Re:Stupid recursion

[BensonLeung]

Not really recursion... more of a set of pointers forming a loop. Hope your garbage collector doesn't work by reference count.

Re:Stupid recursion

[OmniVector]

recursion is fun because recursion is fun!

Re:Stupid recursion

[Graff]

recursion is fun because recursion is fun!

That's just simple repetition. Recursion would be more like:

recursion: see fun

fun: see recursion

ipod

[millahtime]

iTunes store may not be accessible but there are over 1 billion people there and iTunes syncs with the ipod so imagine how many ipods they could sell there.

Re:ipod

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll sell less than they do in the US. Chinese GDP per head: $4,700. US GDP per head: $36,300

Now, you can bet your bottom dollar that less of the GDP in China gets back to the workers, so something maks me think that although they have 1 billion people there, not many of them will be toying with the idea of getting an iPod, iTunes or an iMac or any other Apple device...

Re:ipod

[Anonymous Coward]

mod grandparent down. parent own3d him.

Re:ipod

[millahtime]

With the increase in living style in China it wouldn't suprise me soon. There are many cell phones and computers poping up all over the place. Why not ipods? Maybe not this year but in the next couple I could see them selling decently. If a half percent of the population buys then then that's more than 5 million of them sold.

Re:ipod

[chmilar]

This is true.

While most of China cannot come close to affording an iPod (and, if they had the spare cash, would rather have a motorcycle), there is a rising urban middle-class. These people want to show off through conspicuous consumption: going to $tarbuck$, driving a Mercede$ or BM-trouble-you, having the latest flashy mobile phone. It is a relatively small group, but, if the iPod is "the" music player, they will all have one (and the cheap MP3 makers will have look-alike white earbuds and cords, for the wanna-be's).

The Microsoft-Apple Comparison FAQ

[shrubya]

This question has already been asked and answered.

China will be an interesting experiment

[tji]

I will be very interested to see how iTMS does in China. That's going into the core of the area where organized piracy has traditionally been the main music and software market.

China has been gaining a large middle class, and a lot of wealth. So, I think there is a big enough potential market that is able to purchase music. We'll see if they are willing to purchase music.

I went to China on a business trip last year, and while walking through an open market in Shanghai I couldn't take five steps without being approached by a kid wanting to sell CD's and DVD's for less than a dollar a piece.

Re:China will be an interesting experiment

[shawnce]

Just to be clear. iTMS isn't going to be in China this month, at least nothing so far points to that (or if and when it will be). All that is happening is that Apple is getting iTunes, the application, pre-bundled on computers from one major hardware vendor in China. Like it did with HP in the states (which took place before the iPod rebrand deal IIRC).

Re:China will be an interesting experiment

[Anonymous Coward]

> We'll see if they are willing to purchase music.

I'd be seriously surprised if they are. From my relatives in China I gather that the overwhelmingly prevailing attitude is that you must be crazy to pay for something that you can copy easily. This applies for everything:, music, books, movies, software,...

Re:China will be an interesting experiment

[Espectr0]

Curious, there are reports on macrumors suggesting that apple.com has been blocked to be viewed in China...

World’s Best Digital Music Experience

[abscondment]

Concerningthe Apple press release">:

Why does Apple insist on calling iTunes/Pod the "World's Best Digital Music Experience"?

It's true--they're becoming too Microsoft-ish if they title the article that based on the idea that the iPod is the #1 music player in the world (1st par).

Even if that's the case, I should hope it's not the best digital music experience. Frankly, unless they've got a huge frickin' mixing board running separate tracks for all instruments rolled into a single player, then all it is is the best portable player. The Best digital music experience...? That costs thousands of dollars in the form of recording/playback equipment and big fucking speakers.

Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience

[millahtime]

Why does Apple insist on calling iTunes/Pod the "World's Best Digital Music Experience"?

It's called marketing. They are using "buzz" words to attract the attention of more people. the jist is that more people intrested drives up sales, then they make more money.

Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience

[Anonymous Coward]

Because "One of several pretty good music experiences" sounded kind of lame to their PR people.

Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience

[The Lost Supertone]

You don't own an iPod do you? Fact is the experience of using the iPod is part of it, and the experience of using iTunes is part of it. Working with Audio mixing tools isn't exactly the best because you're doing all the work. You may not agree. But simply because Apple is saying they're the best doesn't mean they're Microsoftish. It means they've still got a huge ego, which is no news. Watch any MacWorld or WWDC and you'll see Steve and company have some massive ego going on. It's not so bad they do make some really great products and do stuff better than most people in the markets they enter. Apple I think entered the MP3 player market with the iPod because iTunes was going well by it'self and they were getting great feedback but the portable player market was not growing the way they saw it could. And decided to fill it. They did the same thing with the iSight recently. There are no really good web cams out there that people all want to buy to do web cam stuff. Now at least for the Mac Apple has filled that void. Apple has a mentality where they'll let a market get to some point and if nobody has taken the lead they'll just come in and blow everyone away. If you notice they have iMovie and iPhoto and yet they haven't made any ventures into the camcorder or camera markets. Why? Cause Canon, Fujifilm, Nikon, HP, Kodak, Samsung, Sony, JVC, and company are all doing very good for digital stuff in these markets.

Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's just marketing bullshit. And that does make them Microsoftish.

Call your product what it is. An mp3 player will never be the "best" digital music experience. Call it the best mp3 player. Call it the best portable music player. Call it a fucking paperweight. I don't care--just call it something it is.

The reason I don't have one is because I have a nice digital STEREO system with big SPEAKERS. Headphones on a little twinkbox just doesn't cut it for the "best" music experience.

Of course, this applies to all mp3 players, in my mind. I'm not trying to flame Apple, per se, but if they're going to tout an mp3 player as the best... aagghhh, we should all just give up now!

Apple would (should...) never call iSight the best digital video experience. The "best" would cost thousands of dollars.
I'm tired of being marketed to with bullshit "I'm the best" and "this is the #1 selling" slogans.

Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience

[fr0dicus]

Don't you have anything better to do? Seriously.

Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience

[Anonymous Coward]

The above is

a) entirely subjective

b) completely dependent on how you define 'digital music experience'

kthxbye

Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience

[ragecgi]

Why does Apple insist on calling iTunes/Pod the "World's Best Digital Music Experience"?

For the same reason thay illegaly claimed "The worlds fastest" personal computer.

Talk about Anti-trust...

.ogg iTunes, .wav etc

[xiando]

Personally I'd rather have my audio in .ogg or .mp3 format instead of iTunes, .wmv or any other closed not-all-round supported format. I want to be able to use my audio anywhere, on any device. I do not want to be restriced to using any special not-open-source software or device. .ogg audio ownez iTunes any day of the week.

(can you)blame canada?

[TripleP]

with floating excnage rates, the iTunes store can be somewhat volatile for canadian users. i for one would be much more inclined to use a service that billed in CAD, and i'm sure that there are others are out there that agree with me on this one.

Canada is regarded in this way by many american companies though, and really do we have an option? Well, we do, and that is pay in USD or go without

Re:(can you)blame canada?

[The Lost Supertone]

Lately Apple's costs charges in Canada have sometimes been a little lower than the American prices. We might see 99 cent or 1.25 dollar songs up here, which for a 12 song CD still works out to 15 bucks, which is lower than the average 20 dollar CD I buy. But with the RIAA realizing that HEY it's now LEGAL to pirate in Canada, I imagine they'll try and be as nice to Apple as they can up here. Puretracks is selling for 99 cents a track. I would be very happy if we see Apple do this.

Re:(can you)blame canada?

[oscast]

You should always Blame Canada

Re:(can you)blame canada?

[iantri]

This may be a bit pedantic, but it's not really piracy (copyright infringement) if it is legal, is it?

Re:(can you)blame canada?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sorry, I failed to see the problem.

Apple licenses music from Canadian labels, artists, distributors, uses infrastructure from Canadian companies and pays them in Canadian dollars, doesn't it? So, how's the fluctuation against the dollar affect loss/profit of iTMS Canada? If their costs are 80 cents CAD and they sell songs at 99 cents CAD, what does it matter if 1 USD = .50 CAD or 1 USD = 2 CAD?

It is different with computers, though since they are manufactured/assembled in Taiwan/Ireland/whatever.

...sigh...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Then again, what do the chinese listen to, anyway?" It's people like this that have no understanding for anything outside of the their little USA-world, that make this country look so bad to anyone looking inside.

iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why choose iTunes over AllOfMp3?

Though AllOfMP3.com is a legally questionable operation, so are the tactics of the RIAA's, whom iTMS users are supporting with every cent they give to the store.

By choosing AllOfMP3.com over Apple's store, you can do the following:

-NOT supporting the RIAA, or a company that chooses to work with, and fund them.
-NOT support the use of the iTMS' proprietary DRM which not only limits what media player you want to play your music on (Most people prefer listening to their music on Winamp intead of being forced to use iTunes to listen to music they paid for), but what digital audio portable you want to use to listen to your music as well.
-have the CHOICE of what format you want your music encoded in, instead of beign stuck with vanilla 128 AACs with Apple's proprietary and limiting DRM.
-pay cheaper than you would for your music, with the added bonus of having more CHOICE with your music formats, and nto send a cent to support the RIAA or a company that supports/funds how they do business.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[pubjames]

Though AllOfMP3.com is a legally questionable operation

It's not a legally questionable operation. It is legal according to Russian law, and it's a Russian company, so it's legal.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, thats becouse allofmp3 isnt legal outside the USA. Jeesus, you dont want to buy the music? Then don't. But that doesnt give you the right to download it.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're also not giving a single cent to the artists in any shape or form, instead to some dodgy russian company, may as well just pirate it.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[danigiri]

"or a company that chooses to work with" (emphasis mine)

Uh, too outstanding to just not comment... I assure you that *not* "choosing" to work with the RIAA to sell mainstream music in the USA (no disrespect to independents) is a sure way of "choosing" to spend a loooong time in jail. Feel free to present us with your mainstream RIAA-free music online store, I will happily send you my money then, but it will be probably all spent feeding your army of lawyers.

dani++

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[YrWrstNtmr]

It's not a legally questionable operation. It is legal according to Russian law, and it's a Russian company, so it's legal...

...In Russia. Since presumably most of the world does not live in Russia, its legality elsewhere is still in question.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[pubjames]

Since presumably most of the world does not live in Russia, its legality elsewhere is still in question.

But that's a dumb argument. There are American porns sites that would be illegal in many countries in the world, but that doesn't mean that the sites are of dubious legality. They are legal. Or if you don't like that example, many American web sites share personal data in a way that is not allowed by law in the EU, but again that doesn't mean they are illegal or dubious.

I think what you mean is that it may not be legal for people in the USA to use the allofmp3 web site. That may be the case. But allofmp3 is not "a legally questionable operation", unless you believe that all American porn sites are legally questionable because they would be illegal in certain other countries.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, those 4 cents an artist get from a sale on iTunes means a lot.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[YrWrstNtmr]

Dumb argument? No. It apparently is legal in Russia. (which is what I said before).

I'm just asking if it is in fact legal to use within the USA and elsewhere? I haven't seen a definitive yes or no.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[Llywelyn]

Better 4 cents (or 11 cents, which I believe is the more common figure) than 0 cents.

The exact amount is worked out with the music label and their deal with the artist, Apple has nothing to do with it and it varies from label to label. Never mind the number of independent labels on the iTMS.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[pubjames]

I'm just asking if it is in fact legal to use within the USA and elsewhere? I haven't seen a definitive yes or no.

I don't think there is a definitive answer to that question at the moment.

Lots of people argue that buying from allofmp3.com is illegal, but when you ask why, they say "it's obvious". From a legal perspective, I don't think it is obvious at all.

Now, distributing copyrighted material that you don't own is clearly illegal. But you're not doing that if you are downloading music from allofmp3.

Copying content that you do not have permission to copy is not legal, unless it meets certain criteria such an amount for research purposes. So doesn't that make it not legal to download from allofmp3? Not as far as I can see - you are purchasing something from someone who has a legal right to sell it. The fact that they are in another country doesn't matter - there's no law against you buying from foreign companies.

Now, it would be different if they were selling something that is clearly illegal in the USA (or something that was illegal to import), like child pornography. But they are not. Owning or purchasing mp3s is not illegal in itself.

To some people allofmp3 is clearly "not fair", but that doesn't make it illegal. I think the fact of the matter is that the laws surrounding these issues - purchasing digital content over the internet from other countries - are not yet clear. I expect the USA is putting pressure on Russia to change how internet companies are treated - currently they are classified as broadcasters, which allows allofmp3.com to do what it does legally. But until that happens, I have yet to see a convincing argument that downloading from allofmp3.com is illegal. Wrong, maybe, but then a lot of what the record companies do is wrong if we are looking at this from a moral perspective.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[Fancia]

Actually, that's not true. ROMS, the Russian Organization for Multimedia and digital Systems, has legally licensed AllOfMP3. A portion of the income from every song sale goes to ROMS, which takes a small portion to cover operating costs and gives the rest directly to the artists - not through the record labels.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[MoneyT]

Not as far as I can see - you are purchasing something from someone who has a legal right to sell it.

And this is where you fail Law 101. They have a legal right to sell it (maybe) in russia. However, the same company that owns the music in russia does not own it in America and does not own it in the UK or Canada or Japan. Why do you think it took iTunes so long to get to these other countries? Because each country has it's own record labels and distributors whom you have to negotiate with.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[YrWrstNtmr]

Right. Let's reword this: "Does allofmp3.com have the proper license, granted by the copyright holder, to sell this product in Countries X, Y and Z?" I see nothing convincing, one way or the other. I'd like it to be, because it looks like a very good deal. As you say, the laws are not fully clear yet.

That what the record companies do may be/is wrong is irrelevant.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[pubjames]

And this is where you fail Law 101.

I need further convincing.

They have a legal right to sell it (maybe) in russia. However, the same company that owns the music in russia does not own it in America and does not own it in the UK or Canada or Japan.

Can I buy, say, a book or a DVD from another country and get it posted to me? Yes. In fact I do this quite a bit. The only legal issue is import duties. If that DVD or book or whatever is cheaper that in my own country, then the company that sells it here may not like it but tough, I'm not doing anything wrong. The company selling it to me may be doing something wrong if their country has export restrictions on the product, or if they are breaking a contract they have with the producers by selling that product to someone from another country. Otherwise, they're probably in the clear.

So, you haven't convinced me and I don't think I've "failed Law 101" - I think a lot of the people who argue that it is illegal to use allofmp3 would fail because they jump to conclusions without actually considering what the law actually says.

I expect this issue actually comes down to trade agreements between Russia and the rest of the world. Russia, you may be aware, is not currently a member of the WTO.

Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3?

[davesag]

NOT supporting the RIAA, or a company that chooses to work with, and fund them.

that's every us label then, and every manufacturer of music hardware

-NOT support the use of the iTMS' proprietary DRM which not only limits what media player you want to play your music on (Most people prefer listening to their music on Winamp intead of being forced to use iTunes to listen to music they paid for), but what digital audio portable you want to use to listen to your music as well.

it's your right not to buy music thru itms, and your right not to have an iPod. And good on ya. Me, even though I can't buy on iTms, still have a full iPod from my own cd collection, and files I have shared, not via p2p, but by either just ripping a mate's cd off their shelf, or copying the files directly. the latter is akin to what we used to do in school which was make cassettes of albums and share those out to friends on request. It is fair use and a fee is built into the price of the blank media.

-have the CHOICE of what format you want your music encoded in, instead of beign stuck with vanilla 128 AACs with Apple's proprietary and limiting DRM.

iTunes allows you to export or rip to mp3, aac, at any quality setting you like, and the quicktime player lets you crossrip to anything. there is also plenty of shareware and *nix utils for doing all manner of things to your files.

-pay cheaper than you would for your music, with the added bonus of having more CHOICE with your music formats, and nto send a cent to support the RIAA or a company that supports/funds how they do business.

you said that already.

Re:.ogg iTunes, .wav etc

[Anonymous Coward]

Downloaded music will always be DRM'ed as long as the RIAA is around. And DRM'ed music will never play "anywhere, on any device," regardless of which codec (vorbis, wma, aac/m4a) you use to compress it.

Not Canada Yet

[nachoman]

Now if only they would stop neglecting Canada...

I still don't understand why they don't have iTMS in Canada yet.

Re:Not Canada Yet

[shawnce]

...may be because you can legally steal music in Canada :-)

Re:Not Canada Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweet, next time I go to Canada I'll steal a CD from a store, since stealing music is legal.

Re:Not Canada Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not even a real country anyway

Re:Not Canada Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats simple.

Your money is named LOONY AND TOONY!

Re:Not Canada Yet

[eweu]

I still don't understand why they don't have iTMS in Canada yet.

A difference of about 350 million people seems to be a good reason.

Re:Not Canada Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

sir can you please tell us again what your itunes complaint is... abOUt?

hee hee hee

it's aboot equality. it's aboot fairness. it's aboot technology.

hee hee hee
it's really abOUt buying bryan adams music online isn't it?

now now, we have apologised for bryan adams on many occasions. that's not what it's aboot.

hee hee hee... 'apologised'... hee hee

you guys are dicks! we're going to bomb the riaa and give you something to laugh aboot!

You're implying...

[lxt]

"While I'm sure it's all fine and dandy that Apple is now bringing more capitalism to China"

You're implying that China is communist. It's not truly communist - the country would not have experienced such massive growth in population if it wasn't for western companies investing in textiles factories, etc. in China. China owes a lot to western countries for it's absoloutely massive period of growth after the past fifty years. Considering I just three hours ago wrote a two page essay on it for an A-Level... :)

Re:You're implying...

[Eslyjah]

Considering I just three hours ago wrote a two page essay on it for an A-Level... :)

Is "A-Level" some sort of metric school?

Re:You're implying...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an exam sat in UK secondary (high) schools - the syllabus is around the same difficulty as an AP course

Re:You're implying...

[Anonymous Coward]

He wasn't implying anything of the sort, you fucking jew. There are more colours than black and white in this world you know, there are more political ideologies than "communism" and "capitalism." Get your FAT FUCKING AMERICAN HEAD OUT OF YOUR FAT FUCKING AMERICAN ASS AND OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES, you mindless corporate drone. I'd like to see you dead. Not only you, but your entire fucking country of fat, ignorant, brainless slobs, enslaved under television and chained to mediocrity for the rest of your goddamned pointless lives. If you were here and there was a gun in my hand I'd fucking KILL YOU. I am not even JOKING.

Re:You're implying...

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, I'm guessing you don't know what an 'A-Level' is...

will we get a linux version of ITunes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't China's "official" OS going to be Linux? If this is the case, it would be hard for all those people on Linux machines to use ITunes

Re:will we get a linux version of ITunes?

[ranger5]

I can't imagine it's too far off. The folks at Apple software seem to have their fingers in the OSS candy dish as it is. I can't see them ignoring "the other white meat" too much longer. Probably, more sales of "the OS formerly known as Lindows", and the commercial Linux distros might spark some interest... OR a huge deal with a Chinese company.

Re:will we get a linux version of ITunes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahaha! Delusional.

Sound bite is wrong...

[Anonymous Coward]

"the biggest story in music is about to get even bigger"

should read:

"the biggest ego in selling music is about to get even bigger"

C'mon Steve, quit kidding yourself. All you are is a bog-standard online shop, nothing more, nothing less. You most certainly don't warrant calling yourself part of the music industry, you're just tagging along for the glamourous rock-star ride when really, you're just a geek like us...

Re:.ogg iTunes, .wav etc

[Patik]

Wow, no one has ever made a comment like that before. You're the first person ever on Slashdot to denounce DRM.

By the way, just use hymn to unlock your files.

bah

[sulli]

Apple DRM still sucks. UK buyers: don't fall into the trap! Use iTunes for your MP3 collection and with your iPod, but forget the store unless you use DVD-Jon's decryptor.

Re:.ogg iTunes, .wav etc

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm. Actually, iTunes can use mp3 natively if you want it to. It can also use unprotected AAC. There is also a plugin to do Ogg with iTunes.

Don't let fears over iTunes' "incompatibility" damn you-- it's not Windows Media, with a click of a button in the preferences you can set it to encode in something you can use in any player that you prefer.

on windows or apple

[Anonymous Coward]

is it itunes on windows or on mac os x in china?

Too little, too late?

[Rikardon]

I just discovered allofmp3.com over the weekend, thanks to others mentioning it on Slashdot, so I'm doing my part to spread the word. They have a good selection (though not as broad as Apple's), but the pricing is unbeatable -- $0.01 or $0.02 per MB.

Best of all, the encoding is almost always selectable -- you can choose MP3 (including the LAME alt-preset settings), WMA, OGG, MP4, and a couple of others I've forgotten. You can even get the tracks lossless if you want.

I can't remember getting this excited about an Internet site since the first time I streamed European radio via RealPlayer in 1997. Understand: I've been an AVLA-licensed DJ for 13 years. I rarely spend my own money on music; I get it all from the record companies (whose licensing terms, for DJs at least, are a lot better in Canada than they are in the States -- we can burn multiple copies for performance, are licensed to play directly from MP3, etc.), in exchange for a nominal fee. But last night I spent about US$17 and downloaded about 220 songs. About half of that was replacing CDs I've previously owned but that are now damaged or lost. Another 20% was probably old favorites from the 80s that I remember fondly but am not willing to spend a lot of money on (Sly Fox or Paul Hardcastle for example).

Don't want to give your credit card to the Russians? Fine -- they take PayPal. I paid $10 for 1GB of download, and when it was obvious I was going to blow past that amount, I added another $10. Simple and painless.

iTUnes and all the comparable services (PureTracks, etc.) use DRM-encumbered formats. These are unencumbered MP3s that work great on my 15GB Archos Jukebox Recorder.

In short, allofmp3 is pretty much exactly what I've been wanting in a download service. They claim it's legal in Russia (see the site and some discussion forums), and it's legal for me to download here in Canada (heck, my wife will be burning half the music to CDs that we've paid the CRIA licensing fees for -- most of our CDs are used for backups and/or digital photos), so for as long as they're around they've got my business.

Re:Too little, too late?

[YrWrstNtmr]

They claim it's legal in Russia (see the site and some discussion forums), and it's legal for me to download here in Canada

What specifically points to it being legal in Canada? Has the CRIA blessed this?

Re:Too little, too late?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Canadian Copyright Boards has decried that it is in fact legal to download music from the Internet. There is no need for CRIA to bless it as they don't have the power to say what IS and what IS NOT legal.

Re:World's Best Digital Music Experience

[Anonymous Coward]

"Because it's true" is another valid reason...

International Music

[philoticjane]

What I want to know is if they're going to be making all the music in all regions available to all the other regions that have itms available. I would KILL to be able to buy some J-Pop and local rock and folk music from parts of Europe in AAC (yes, I know, .ogg r0x0rz your s0ckz0rz, but AAC is readily available and still high quality). It would be so easy to access tons of new material (especially stuff that you just can't find in Texas, or most other states for that matter), which is one of the secondary purposes of itms (the first, of course, I won't argue is making money).

You know you're commenting on Slashdot when... you have to make several provisos to be sure you're understood.

Re:International Music

[dq5 studios]

www.japan-a-radio.com
Great station, plus you can set up a stream ripper and get all the JPOP your hd can handle.

Re:International Music

[shidoshi]

If that's the station I'm thinking of, far too much of their "J-pop" is crap anime music. Plus, ripping a low-quality stream and being able to purchase good quality singles with proper tags and cover art are two different things.

I, too, would love to get my hands on the ability to use a Japanese iTMS once it becomes available.

Re:International Music

[ranger5]

I wouldn't be surprised if they added a "regional" or "international" section in the same area where they offer the billboard charts. I think it is in both Apple's and the labels' best interest to sell as much music as possible. It might take a while to get the details worked out, but I am reasonably confident that no one wants to sit on content that they "could" be selling. I have been really happy with the easy access to the billboard charts. It is very cool that right now I can get the music from bigger markets than NW PA, or even just see what I am missing from West Palm Beach. How long till vacation again?

Re:International Music

[worm eater]

These two sites are excellent sources for international music:

Tamizdat
Sublime Frequencies

Sublime Frequencies only has a handful of releases, but what I've heard from them is amazing. Tamizdat is a distributor of eastern European music. These aren't download sites, but I still thought you may be interested.

I agree with you that it would be *amazing* to see Apple incorporate music from all the countries they distribute in. It would be good for Apple, consumers & music in general.

Re:International Music

[philoticjane]

What is this "vacation" you speak of?
(-:

Re:.ogg iTunes, .wav etc

[The Lost Supertone]

Hey now! You said something that actually shows real knowledge of iTunes on Slashdot. And you told someone that their worries over Ogg aren't really valid. And that the world's most popular MP3 player can play MP3s! Are you allowed to do that?

"One last thing...."

[sjonke]

Jobs exposes his breast on stage?

Forget iTunes...

[Andorion]

Try http://www.allofmp3.com, a Russian site charging $0.01 per megabyte downloaded, with various encoding options (an album is about 100 megs, so that's $1.00!!) Best site ever. And, apparently, legal (search for reviews on it.)

~Berj

Question of the day : food or music ?

[nomad63]

This is the most incredibly capitalist idea that I have ever heard from a reputable manufacturer of computers so far.

Knowing the average wealth of the Chinese population, what in the earth was Apple thinking or what were they smoking up in the Valley when they come up with this brilliant idea I am wondering.

While most people in Chine is on the border of (or may be right in the middle of) poverty in US standarts, what do they expect from this deal. Sell these people digital songs $1-a-pop ?

Hmmm.. I am wondering if I should eat today or shell out my food allowance to download the latest Eminem track ? Hmmmnn... Hard choice, but I'll go with the food.

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[FatPaulie]

Your numbers are a bit off.

This report suggests that 80 million of China's 1.5 billion citizens live below the poverty line. I've read reports that the Chinese Middle Class extends to numbers equalling the population of the United States.

On a recent trip to China, I observed a LOT of technology-obsessed youth - the exact target market for new computers and iPods. And in a country where you don't usually have the expense of a car, flashy goods like the iPod go a long way to showing off your social standing.

Understand that your vision of poverty-stricken China holds true for a large expanse of rural China, the urban population in cities like Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong live a lot like the rest of us (albeit in slightly more cramped spaces).

In a society like that, where large purchases (houses and cars) are unusual, they're left with things like Rolexes and iPods to show off their wealth.

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[MalleusEBHC]

Knowing the average wealth of the Chinese population, what in the earth was Apple thinking or what were they smoking up in the Valley when they come up with this brilliant idea I am wondering.

They were probably thinking that in a country with over 1 billion people, there would still be enough people with enough money to justify this. I know nothing about the distribution of wealth in China, but let's say that 10% of their population is at a level of wealth comparable to your average American. That's over 100 million people, a damn good sized market by any means.

Additionally, I have to imagine the cost of Apple rolling out the music store in China (or Europe or Canada for that matter) is rather insignificant compared to the initial US rollout. On the tech side, the fixed cost it is nothing more than adding new servers. All the heavy lifting for development has been done already for the original iTMS. After that, Apple really only has to pay for bandwidth, and I think it is safe to assume that as iTMS China uses more bandwidth, there will be more sales.

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[danigiri]

"what do they expect from this deal[?]"

Probably they will be able to claim that their QT installed base has suddenly jumped several dozen million computers...

dani++

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[morgdx]

China, population below poverty line 10%, USA, er, oh, wait, erm, 12.7%. Did I get those the wrong way round, oh, let me check again, aha, oh no. USA has 12.7% of it's population below the poverty line.

So, as I was saying, you're in south central, and you think, tunes or medical provision, what are you going to choose, hmmm... hard choice but I'll download Outkast.

US China (world factbook).

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[Tengoo]

RTFPR - There is no mention of making the store available to Chinese customers. Apple is bundling iTunes with these machines, that's it.

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[Anonymous Coward]

right. because people who would have to make that choice are buying brand new computers. and they have internet connections... i think your logic is fairly flawed. i don't think any computer products are aimed at the "poor" people of china. we're talking about the emerging middle class here, pal...

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[Hackie_Chan]

...the urban population in cities like Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong live a lot like the rest of us (albeit in slightly more cramped spaces).

Not competely true. Did you only visit the places where tourists go? I've travelled all around China and believe me, and the middle class don't live as good as we do -- not at all. The only places in China where it was up-to-par compared to my home country (Sweden) was the places were tourists go.

I don't expect Apple to sell more iPods in China than the United States for quite some years.

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Knowing the average wealth of the Chinese population, what in the earth was Apple thinking

You have to understand that statistical averages are summaries of all the available data, they usually do not tell the whole story. If you have a larger population or a greater variance, you can have a lower average wealth while the total number of people with a certain wealth level is bigger.

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[FatPaulie]

I've been all over South-East Asia and spent a good deal of time in the backwoods of the countries of Japan, South Korea, China, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, and Cambodia.

The urban middle class lives DIFFERENTLY than we do. We live spread out, pack-ratting lives, because we're not confined by space to how much we own. Asian lives are very different, and it's almost like comparing apples to oranges.

My point was that in Rural areas, and even in smaller cities (200,000 and less) you'll find the masses of the poor. The big urban centers have jobs that pay enough to support a decent quality of living. Of course, it's not taking home $3000 a month, but for the cost of living, it's pretty good.

I wouldn't say that it's going to be explosive growth (as in Japan, where the iPod has more than 45% of the MP3 player market now), but it's definitely a growing economy, and a good one to get in on now, while the getting is good.

Re:Question of the day : food or music ?

[GlassHeart]

This report suggests that 80 million of China's 1.5 billion citizens live below the poverty line.

The article you cited also says that the poverty line is "officially defined as earning less than $100 per year." Needless to say, there are a lot more than that unfortunate 80 million who will not be buying iPods that start at $300 each.

What's an AVLA license?

[swb]

Does that mean you're trained not to play "Wild Thing" or "Mony Mony" more than once per wedding?

Re:World's Best Digital Music Experience

[Anonymous Coward]

well, unless you're in some kind of opposite-day mode where you consider "lies" as being true, then yes, iTunes is the World's Best Digital Music Experience. Otherwise, if you'd rather side with facts, iTunes is a bloated application which hardly stacks up against other programs like Winamp or Foobar, or several other competing applications. Apple just has always had more money to throw at their marketing to hook in people who'll follow the newest trends.

Great if you hate musicians.

[SuperKendall]

If you like stiffing artists that's your business. I'll stick with a system where at least a little money get's back to the artists I like.

Apart from the ability to select music quality, I don't really see where allofmp3.com is any different than downloading a song from P2P.

As for iTunes "Encumberment" - perhaps you missed out on Hymn?

Re:Great if you hate musicians.

[athakur999]

AllOfMP3 pays licensing fees to the Russian equivalent of the RIAA, when then distributes the money to the artists.

Will the artist see less money from a download off of AllOfMP3 than a download off of iTunes? Probably. But at least the artist still gets something, compared to downloading off of a P2P where they get nothing at all.

Re:Great if you hate musicians.

[mattkime]

If you like stiffing artists that's your business. I'll stick with a system where at least a little money get's back to the artists I like.

Sorry, I can't manage that. It like buying $10 in postage to send a $2 check.

Re:Great if you hate musicians.

[Llywelyn]

Except that a lot of the works that they distribute fall out of copyright under Russian law, and so no money goes to the artist for those. I also haven't seen any evidence that the "Russian equivalent of the RIAA" actually gives money to any RIAA bands for those sales either.

It is also questionably legal, at *best*, for use outside of Russia. IANAL, but I seem to recall there being trade laws to prevent exactly this sort of business operation from being legal.

Re:Great if you hate musicians.

[Fancia]

Only works released before 1968 are out of copyright in Russia. Everything after that is well in copyright. Most of AllOfMP3's catalogue is in copyright.

Re:Great if you hate musicians.

[dr.badass]

AllOfMP3 pays licensing fees to the Russian equivalent of the RIAA, when then distributes the money to the artists

So, what do they do with the money they make from selling bootlegs? I've found a number of instances where they sell bootleg albums right along side the real albums. In some cases they even sell albums that aren't even by the artist they claim.

Confusion

[Walkiry]

Do not confuse monopoly and monoculture. Both are bad, for different reasons, but they're not the same.

New iPod

[Mr_Silver]

Whilst this is good news, it would be nice if in addition to the iTunes store, Apple also sped up their time to market for new iPods in the UK.

We still have no sight of the iPod Mini and when Jobs announces a new iPod (which the rumour sites seem to think will happen - anyone got any further information?) then it'll be another six months before we can get our grubby mits on them.

Personally, I'm going to see what the new iPod will be like before deciding whether or not to wait ...

I am of course assuming they are going to announce one that is, however the last update was October 16th 2003, which was a fair while back now - especially in light of all the other entrants to the HD MP3 player market who are all vying for top spot.

Re:New iPod

[Razzious]

Granted you have no Ipod Mini....But damn you have the MINI COOPER which is much better!

I would take the Mini Cooper of the Mini ipod anyday.

how much in China?

[Anonymous Coward]

99c? that's a bit more money for those folks...
just wondering.

iTunes in China

[The Lynxpro]

I can already predict one album that will never be sold via the Chinese version of iTunes*:

"Chinese Democracy," by GNR (or The Offspring).

Granted, it'll have to be released first, and the way its going, it'll also be the official soundtrack to Duke Nukem Forever.

*Yes, yes, I realize that the annoucement is not for the iTunes Music Store to be released in China but just the software so please do not flame me over it.

It's _been_ available in Europe....sort of.

[wedding]

As a test, I sent a giftcard from my account to a friend in Manchester. Worked like a charm, and he never had to use a CC (which is part of the trigger process to kill Euro users.)

ITMS has been available in Europe for a while, you just had to pay from the US.

Wrong demographic

[amake]

You think poor peasants are buying computers at all, much less Apple computers? It's the growing middle class that are being targeted here, not the desperately poor.

Also, though I haven't RTFA, I haven't seen anyone saying that the music store will be available in China. iTunes preinstall != music store access.

If you're willing to give your CC information ...

[Anonymous Coward]

to this "legal" Russian company, then you should feel comfortable posting the info here on /.

Re:.ogg iTunes, .wav etc

[xiando]

Thank you for making me aware of hymn, I had no idea such a thing existed (didn't help me much, though). My one and only experience with iTunes happened a long time ago and I remember I eventually gave up playing the songs all together. I now googled real quick and I'm still puzzled: What Linux media player can play iTunes songs? How, oh how, do I use them?

Re:.ogg iTunes, .wav etc

[Anonymous Coward]

>I want to be able to use my audio anywhere, on any device

then why ogg since hardly anything supports it?

Breaking news: Airport Express Abso. Brilliant!!!

[d0n quix0te]

This is just in... Steve Jobs announced Airport Express at "D"
http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/

True to Apple's vision, Computers not Media Centers become hubs for your media!!! Absolutely freaking right on the spot... ! Now we know why Apple's not licensing the DRM to other players... You can bet that 50% of people who bought an iPod will buy this...

Here's Jobs describing the gizmo...

"We looked at the most popular place people listen to their music," said Jobs during his keynote at "D." "The first place is on the computer; Second is the iPod; The third place is in the car -- right now the solutions out there aren't very good but we are working with some folks on that; the next place is in the home."

In Soviet Russia...

[Anonymous Coward]

...music pirate you!

Re:Breaking news: Airport Express Abso. Brilliant!

[fr0dicus]

what the fuck!!!!

For God's sakes people...

[shidoshi]

iTunes = Apple-created music playing application iTunes Music Store (aka iTMS) = Apple-created online music purchasing / downloading "store" Seriously... how hard it is to understand the difference between the two?

Re:For God's sakes people...

[HeghmoH]

The typical slashdotter's command system sees "Apple" and instantly shuts down all higher brain function.

Um, actually... yeah

[ianscot]

You know, I instinctively wince when I see a post like that, but... you're right. I'd buy that. It does what I've been wanting to do, in a few different ways.

Huh. It's weird to believe something.

If Jobs can come through with a comparably elegant car angle, he's got me for that too. Tape adapters kind of suck, FM transmitters are so weak they lose signal strength from the dashboard to the antenna on my rear window. I want a little cradle or something, and not one with wires straggling all over the place.

What will the pricing be?

[melted]

In China you can buy FULL DVDs, Audio CDs and software CDs for about a buck. So you're saying they will pay a buck for every song? Get outta here!

AllOfMp3 IS illegal, even in Russia

[Anonymous Coward]

AllOfMp3 IS illegal in Russia. They are claiming they have a license to sell music online from some music licensing organisation. This is true. What they don't say is that this music licensing organisation is not allowed anymore to license anything on behalf of the artists, event if that used to be the case.
AllOfMp3 is illegal. There have already been arrests in Russia and Germany, and this is only the beginning

Re:AllOfMp3 IS illegal, even in Russia

[pubjames]

AllOfMp3 is illegal. There have already been arrests in Russia and Germany, and this is only the beginning

Can you point me to information about this on a legitimate news site, mr Anonymous? Because a Google search does not turn anything up.

Re:World's Best Digital Music Experience

[Anonymous Coward]

If it makes you feel better my fellow AC, I suggest you keep believing that.

Communist China?

[xsupergr0verx]

iTunes in communist China...

They must be renaming it ourTunes.

Retribution

[droleary]

I still don't understand why they don't have iTMS in Canada yet.

Two words: Celine Dion.

Yes but if it's the only option...

[SuperKendall]

Sorry, I can't manage that. It like buying $10 in postage to send a $2 check.

But sometimes it's the only way to send a check. It may seem silly, and you would like an alternative, but if the option is to send no check at all?

I have a decent job and figure I can afford the lousy overhead to let an artist know I like thier stuff. Every download is more than just money, it's also a sales figure that increases their chance at more money later.

Effectivley zero

[SuperKendall]

AllOfMP3 pays licensing fees to the Russian equivalent of the RIAA, when then distributes the money to the artists.

That brings to mind the old joke:

A mathematician and an engineer are sitting at a table drinking when a very beautiful woman walks in and sits down at the bar.

The mathematician sighs. "I'd like to talk to her, but first I have to cover half the distance between where we are and where she is, then half of the distance that remains, then half of that distance, and so on. The series is infinite. There'll always be some finite distance between us."

The engineer gets up and starts walking. "Ah, well, I figure I can get close enough for all practical purposes."

Well, allofmp3.com is kind of the inverse of that. If I'm only paying $.01 per MB, how much money is the artist really going to see? How do you know what the real cut is, or how they track payouts?

In any case, the figure is so close to zero that "for all practical purposes" it might as well be.

Isn't Apple still in breach of settlement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, did Apple ever settle with Apple Records over the breach of the settlement or what? Seems kind of retarded for them to carry on like this until they do.

Except...

[SPYvSPY]

...music.

What about Legend???

[The-Bus]

What about Legend PC, introduced to many through this Wired Article.

Legend (at the time of writing, about a year and a half ago) had 3 times the market share of its nearest competitor (presumably the iTunes installer).

And as far as saying, "Who's gonna pay $X for a song in China?" Well, presumably the millions who own computers already. The article also mentions China's "Little Emperors"... Remember, you're mostly allowed only one child per couple in China. When you're only taking care of one kid, it's easy to spoil them and let them get a couple of songs a week.

Screw iTunes

[User 956]

Well, when you do start buying online, I'd go with allofmp3.com Songs are a few cents apiece-- most albums cost less than the $0.99 apple charges for a single song. *And* they have the entire Beatles catalog available. It's 100% legal. It's no worse than buying a CD from Amazon.co.uk.

How can this possibly be? It's due to the wonders of international copyright law.

I spend $4 to $6 a month there.. which ends up being 7-8 albums a month, DRM-free mp3's.

That's a lot better than Apple's pricing scheme, where you'd get 4-6 SONGS per month, with all kinds of fucked up DRM which limits what you can do with what you've LEGALLY PURCHASED.

Re:Screw iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. You post the truth and they mod you down.

Freaky mac zealots are hilarious.

btw-- I tried out allofmp3.com and it rocks.

news break!

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

I asked what groups Apple Computer represented and you listed the Beatles! Hold the presses! Apple Computer owns the publishing rights to the Beatles??!?? HOLY SH!T!!!

yeah like Windows, Passport, Mcdonalds, Sun etc etc

yup, just like them. none of them are worth a damn as trademarks. Also FYI, I can open a hamburger restaurant and put the name 'McDonalds Hamburger Shack' on it -- I just can't put big-ass golden arches in front.

I'm not too young to remember Apple Music, and I know they "are the Beatles record company". Your answer to the question "what groups does Apple Computer represent as a music label" being "The Beatles" shows your low reading comprehension.

Ah... But there is no need for fear

[ControlFreal]

Because we have this: freenet:SSK@Qv3D1xm646Sat6DpmCt7BCyOGiQPAgM,S91vuF 3XDSROK6GSiWp9Xw/PlayFair//

You are blinded

[slashbart]

You are BLIND. If I cannot get a single brandname pc vendor to sell me a pc, without Windows (I'm a Linux developer), then it's obvious that Microsoft has a monopoly.
I ended up buying pc parts, and having someone assemble the thing for me.

Your second paragraph is exactly what is happening. Have you looked at the price of MS-Office recently? The price IS in the stratosphere. Why, because by bundling Office with every pc, they pretty much force everyone to use it (Way to go OpenOffice!).

And third, people ARE slowly moving to get away from M$! Great.