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Setting Up Mac OS X for a Teenage Coffeehouse?
WCityMike writes "I plan to donate a grape iMac to a local church-run non-profit coffeehouse for teenagers, and would like to give it to them appropriately set up for the atmosphere it'll be in. I'm seeking advice on a number of fronts - what freeware or shareware applications would be good for such an environment? Should visitors be allowed to have their own accounts (presumably created by the administrator), or should I just set up one 'student' account and one 'administrator' account? If the latter, is there a way to prevent students from saving things on the hard drive (thus forcing them to use a diskette and/or the CD drive?), and/or a 'Simple Finder' interface extant for OS X? Is there existing software that makes this easier or more configurable, or is it all inside the OS? I'm fairly familiar with Mac OS X, but have never needed to run anything outside a single-user environment."
I would set up an admin account and several "template" accounts based on different types of usage such as "internet only," "power user," etc. You get the idea.
I would then train someone within the organization on how to setup, modify, and maintain the accounts (unless that is going to be you.).
Once again, your generosity of money and time is commendable.
Happy Trails!
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
http://www.macosxhints.com/ is a great place to start looking for the misc answers you may need.
Image it first, because no matter what you do, someone will somehow find a way to trash it or release a virus or the hard drive will crash or lightning will strike it or....
Agile Artisans
You can prevent them from rearranging the desktop, writing to any folder except their own in the /Users/ directory, and taking off/putting stuff onto the dock. At a lab that I administered for a while, I just put a student and admin account on each computer, and it worked well. The users were able to use applications like InDesign and Photoshop perfectly, and they kept their files on USB flash drives.
This pdf link. It tells you how to restore a dummy user's home directory after each login (Its for OSX, not sure if the grape can handle that or not).
Aside from some software tweaking and installation, this should really help your setup.
In the Accounts preference in Panther, you can turn on a sort-of Simple Finder, as well as limit access to specific applications for users. You should play around with those options to get an idea of what you can do.
You're essentially looking to do the same thing many, many others have already done, and are doing every day, with Mac OS X in public lab-type environments. Do yourself a favor and visit
...particularly the documentation section.
http://macosxlabs.org/
You heart is in the right place for wanting to donate your old machine, but the grape iMacs are significantly less secure than the tangerine ones. Be careful!
what freeware or shareware applications would be good for such an environment?
Yellow Dog Linux ?
/me ducks
I would save yourself and the church some time and aggrevation by just keeping an image of the freshly installed hard drive and instructions on how to re-image the computer handy.
"What the hell is an aluminum falcon?"
if they're anything like the teenagers I grew up with, trust them with nothing and they'll be needing lots of porn.
Billy Graham's Bible Blaster.
Hopefully it got ported to the Mac.
Yes, there is a simple finder feature. It's available through the 'Accounts' preference pane.
-Ian
Don't tell the church that your Mac OS X box will be full of daemons. They will get exorcized over it!
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
I guess I would set it up in some sort of kiosk mode (does OS X have that? You'd think it would), and just hand the admin password to the guy in charge of the coffee house. Since it's church-run, and you presumably don't want kids to go porn-surfing, maybe some kind of Internet filter, too.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
I'd hazard a guess this isn't an LDS (Mormon) cafe.
They're probably Catholic.
No matter what platform you are using, I'd suggest that you create just one account for the end-users. As always, keep it simple.
-- Reality checks don't bounce.
I would say just have one non-admin 'guest' account that you can leave logged in all the time. Otherwise somebody will constantly have to create new accounts and retrieve their passwords when people forget them. You can control access to where people save stuff by altering the underlying UNIX permissions.
A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
No, the Catholic Church is strongly anti-Mac.
A new way for priests to lure in young boys... Computers and stimulants.
Although maybe your iMac will be emasculating enough to deter them from entering.
You could be doing a lot more good in the long run than you originally planned.
Also, group policy is a great way to lock down a system. You can make a machine very fool proof in terms of not screwing things up. For instance, you could have a profile, and every time you log off the system discards it and uses the default one again.
It's common in the Mac community to give the "Flavor" instead of the full configuration. My guess is he wanted to give an estimation of the configuration involved, and that is good for me. for a Mac user "grape"= "iMac CRT 266 or 333, 6Mb VRAM, 6Gb HD, USB1, no Firewire", so yes I think "grape" is relevant information. On a grape iMac, you could run panther, and there is a "Simple Finder" equivalent on 10.3
By a strange coincidence, I just happen to be looking for teenage coffee drinkers for a research project that I am about to begin. Please send me photos of teenagers drinking coffee. Thank you.
Bah! Between the tithing and the "faith-based" government funding, those holy rollers are already loaded.
If it was running windows i would just say give up and leave it on default install. It would be full of porn and downloaded crap within a week. Because its a mac you might have a bit of a head start (might take them abit longer to get MSN working) and the browser (as long as its not IE for mac, stay away from IE for mac it is the devils work) might not get infested with porn pop-ups. Dont bother with accounts, no-one is going to need their own space and if you dont want anyone saving things on the hard-drive then accounts are definately not needed. Just stick a student account on, leave it logged in, and put a decent browser on, word processor (if there isnt already) and a multi-protocal chat client would be nice (gaim or something).
Oh and be sure to stick a folder in there somewhere called "lesbians" and stick the goats.cx pic in there (or script it to take a pic from the web cam and set it as the background with the caption "i was trying to get the lesbian porn".
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
The poster has an iMac. S/he wants to give it away. Why be mean and quibble about OSes? Windows, Mac, Linux, have their different merits in different environments but if it's free (as in beer) then no-one need gripe.
"Yes, I would like to order one cup of Cynicism and a mug of Disdain for the girl at the iMac."
That's flamebait if I ever heard it.
"The average church do gooder"???
First of all, it's aimed towards teenagers. They can pick up just about anything you put in front of them.
Second of all, apparently you think that only mindless sheep go to church, but that couldn't be farther from the truth.
I know...I know...don't feed the trolls.
To understand recursion,
you must first understand recursion.
I have a blunt spoon I could donate to a murderer, doesn't make it a great idea though does it? Everything has a good and a bad side, the good side is he's helping these people, the bad side is most people go "oohh pretty.. but I don't know where internet explorer is!".
--- [Insert intresting Sig here]
Look at Mac OS X Labs. They have a lot of experience in setting up machines in school labs (read: hostile environments).
If anyone would have info on locking down a system they would.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I read the post as that he was donating an old Grap iMac to the school, and not buying a new machine. Are iMacs even available in "flavors" anymore?
In any case, using a Mac isn't rocket science. The "dock" is pretty self explanitory, and for complete newbies you can put shortcuts on the desktop to launch applications. For example, put a Safari shortcut on the desktop and label it "Internet," or a shortcut to iPhoto and call it "Picture Tools."
Maintaining a Mac isn't that bad. You can install updates in a similar manner as Windows (though they aren't as frequent). Likewise with antivirus software.
With windows (XP for example), some software won't run right (or at all) unless you have Power User or Administrative status (in which case, you're system is wide open to getting screwed). With a Mac, you can lock down write-access to everything but certain directories and the software should still run.
I'm torn. I'm only a recent convert, but not a zealot. I'd say, if he's jsut giving away his old iMac (or one he got for practically nothing), then power to him (or her). Mac OS X "just works."
But if the chruch is already used to PC's and has never used a Mac before, it'll just be a little harder to get used to.
Church's are used to getting donations, and are probably used to getting stuff they normally don't use. I'm sure most have learned to adapt, and an IT guy should be able to get the hang of OS X (even admin stuff) in a short time.
Many finder preferences can be locked down by creating a root account, logging into it via the GUI, opening up the /Users/normaluser/Library/Preferences and highlighting the .plist file you want to lock. Then do a command+i (apple+i), check the "Locked" button. Logout. That way, a normal user can change the interface all they want while they are working, but once they logout, and someone else logs back in, everything is restored to the way you set it up. Of course you need to setup the normal user account FIRST.
admin may not be the same as root, but there is a root account that has the usual Unix powers.
Coffee is a drug.
pronoblem
That is my exact opinion on church people. but I wasn't trying to flame, I was pointing out that the average teenager wants porn, sex and coffee. They want to click on IE type in URL and look at whatever it is they wish to look at. Not have to learn 2-3 different OS set ups and how each operates and runs.
Remember the average user will type with 1 finger and suck at using mice. The "average teenager" can adapt, but the average teenager doesn't want to spend time doing such things.
--- [Insert intresting Sig here]
You didn't really specify what the machine would be used for. I'm assuming, given the environment, that it will be used mostly for Internet surfing & email. Unless you or another admin is going to be available to maintain user accounts, I *would* use a generic account for the users and a well-protected admin account. The Panther (10.3) finder *does* have a Simple Finder option. You can turn it on in the Accounts preferences pane after you create the user account. It gives you (some) options for limiting what the users are & aren't allowed to change as regards the desktop interface. If you need more granular control of applications or rights, you can add/remove apps from the machine and you can change the access rights via the underying UNIX group and permissions system. That level of detail might be more than you need or that you can administer, however, if you're not somewhat familiar with the UNIX underpinnings. In terms of recommended software: you definately want to supplement or replace IE with Safari and/or some of the Mozilla-derived browsers (Camino, Mozilla, Firefox). The various security glitches and pop-ups inherent in IE could make it a risk. You may want to consider adding some remote control software in case you have to remotely assist somebody or fix the machine remotely. Timbuktu and Apple Remote Desktop are popular commercial options. You might find something like VNC preferable for this environment, however, as it's free and relatively lightweight. All of these remote control options assume a broadband connection. You may also consider enabling remote SSH access if you need a lighter (terminal-only) remote admin mechanism. You *definately* want to turn the OSX built-in firewall on assuming that this machine will be directly connected to the Internet. The basic options are easy to setup via the sharing and related preference panes. You might also consider an anti-virus application such as Virex or Symantec NAV. I don't consider these critical for my personal use since there is so little OSX virus activity, but it's probably better to be prudent on a shared machine. Since this scenario uses a shared guest account on the machine, you'll probably want to avoid letting users use local mail applications such as Mail.App . Suggest that a web-mail interface might be simpler and require less maintenance on your part. Good luck
I know that older systems (alright, it was around the time of System 7 last time I seriously used a Macintosh) had something called At Ease, that would allow you to do just that, it gave them their own space, and let's people do whatever when it comes to what you want them to do and doesn't allow them to save things to the HD if you don't want people to, of if they do, only in one folder, and a floppy disk (and you can disable Floppy access if you so choose, as well). Not sure if anything like that exists today, but you can sure check and see.
You're clearly out of your mind. Windows? Teens? "Safe from Viruses".
... no amount of Update Zone Alarm, New Updates or Anti Virus checking is going to prevent those teenagers from screwing the system.
...
Bwwwwaaaaahahahahahhahahahahahah!
Okay, sorry. OSX is a much, much, much safer environment for teens to be thrown loose into, than Windows.
I'm not even going to bother with the whole "Virus" thing
Out of the box, you can set up an OSX account that deletes itself at the end of each session and renews the home dir every time, through the OS, safely. Check macosxhints.com for details on how to do this
OSX is -designed- for people like this, in scenario's like this.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I know it wont work for you, sicne your donating an iMac (i dont believe Knoppix is available for PPC's), but I recently setup a school computer lab and found the best solution to keep the computers working is just leave a knoppix cd in the drive and use knoppix live cd as the OS.
They can listen to their music, compose documents (OO), browse the web with flash, install plugins for firefox (granted its linux so they cant install much), etc. Plus, some of the older kids even like to mess around in linux to learn it a bit. They can do anything that they need to, and the best part: no matter what, when they reboot the computer is back to normal.
I've seen similar windows software (fortess, deep freeze), but they all resulted in crippled systems (fortress wouldnt let you right click because then you could potentially disable the program). I also was able to get around deep freeze in high school in about 30 minutes, and Im sure some smart student can bypass fortress if they truly wanted to (it was not used when i was in school). Knoppix, however, is not subject to such vulnerabilities and provides more functionality. Plus, its free and 3rd party apps can cost a heapload.
Seriously, if you're doing a project like this guy with x86's, at least consider knoppix as an option. It really does have a lot of pro's.
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
Great you're doing this.
:-)
I would create a restricted 'visitor' account (see Accounts pane in the preferences), and back up the account's home folder on each machine (or simply once, centrally). Then run a nightly script to revert the home folder to it's original state. That's better than disallowing write access completely -- it is very useful if a user wants to download some file (which always goes to the desktop by default) - and maybe print / burn / e-mail it!
The user configuration (i.e. the fact that the user actually exists and what is home dir is etc.) is stored in a NetInfo database -- the NetInfo manager is your friend. But you shouldn't need it if you create the account manually on the machine.
Also, remove stuff like Apple Mail, which is of no use on a shared account.
I agree with an earlier suggestion here to call your restricted account "sheep".
I have never used it. But here is an application to make it into a kiosk. Good Luck.
http://www.ncsu.edu/mac/software/webXkiosk.html-Adam
Personally I think it would be a good thing to lock down the hard drive (except temp files maybe?), but aside from CDs and floppies it might make sense in this day and age to make USB mass storage accessible too. I don't know if a lot of teenagers have usb keys for storage, but they are cheap enough now that they're a pretty good solution for generic portable storage. It might make sense in the context of a card reader or digital camera to do this too.
so Fonzie can get free credit when he kicks it. Aaaaaaaaaaaay!
not sure how Apple's work with a HD clone.
But one of the easiest ways I found to fix problems is to give the caretaker a CD with a preset image of the HD. If something gets fubar, they just have to boot off the CD and it will reimage the OS back to the original state. Since it's a shared computer, nothing valuable should be stored on it anyway.
I haven't done this with a mac, but what about using a Linux Live CD distrobution (ex. Knoppix, Feather, etc.)? We have a coffee shop in town that has a donated computer running Knoppix and it has been great. There is no hard drive, so nobody is saving wierd files, viruses, cookies, etc. To clean up any "damage" the owners just reboot the computer.
Does anyone have any knowledge of Live CD distros for a Mac?
I have basically done the same thing with 4 iMacs (233Mhz 320mb RAM)I donated to my local public library. They are used as internet/office/iTunes/AIM stations in a young adults room (grades 4-9). They are currently running 10.3.4 with shadow killer (a MUST for older machines running 10.x. Found at http://www.haxies.com ).
I set mine up with an Admin account (named staff) and a simple finder account (named student). Just go into the UserAccount section of system preferences, set the account you want limited to "simple finder" and limit what else you don't want them to have access to. It is also handy to give them a little bit of space to use for autosave in office and such (or scratch disks in Photoshop).
I have attempted to do similar limitations for the Windows XP computers in the adult section of the library (Using XP Security Console plug-in by Doug Knox), but have had nowhere near the success as I have had with the Macs. They have been running for a year now with ZERO down time.
Good Luck!!
I currently admin about 25 public Macs running OS X. What we currently do have two accounts- one guest and one admin. A clean copy of the guest account is kept compressed (tar) on the hard drive. At startup, the old guest home folder is removed and replaced the with backup that has nothing extra there. This saves lots of headaches since problems can usually be fixed with a restart. Couple that with some creative permissions and SetFile (found in developer tools) to make unnecessary things invisible and you have a secure workstation that can be put back to like-new condition with only a reboot.
And they're getting -- a coffeehouse with Internet access! (Sorry, they're still on their own with the sex part.)
They want to click on IE type in URL and look at whatever it is they wish to look at.
And they can click the IE button and look at whatever it is they wish to look at! Seems like a good deal to me.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I've recently had to setup some computers for a school with the same kind of requirements. Of course there will always be ways around everything... but I went through and created a single account for all end users, limited its access in the accounts control panel, checked the unix permissions in key areas, and installed deep freeze. Deep freeze is an app which basically takes a snapshot of the HDD, monitors any changes, and reverts them at reboot. So... if the computer DOES get messed with, you can just tell the (usually non-technical) attendants to simply reboot and the machine gets sent back to it's pristine state. Check out: http://www.faronics.com/ http://www.faronics.com/doc/DeepFreezeMacOSX.pdf
The local bar here offers free internet access through two Macs on the bar.
Even drunk people from Cleveland know how to use a Mac. They usually say,
"Thish is purty. Theresh internet exschplorer! I think I'll read my email!"
No problems, no one asks the bartender how to use it.
If drunk people can handle a Mac, I'm sure high schoolers can as well.
-=Android=- Chew's Eye Shop http://www.chewseyeshop.com
Take a tip from an administrator in a public school system:
Pick up a copy a copy of DriveShield for the Mac, and allow the students to do whatever they wish to it.
DriveShield is a driver that sits between the hard drive and the OS. Any writes made to the hard drive are redirected into a sratch area of the hard drive, and thus don't stick around for the next reboot. The machine will be back in the state it was in when it was locked on every reboot.
I've tested it by even booting off a System CD and reformatting the drive... on the next reboot it comes right back to how you expect!
The philosophy used to be to lock the machine down as tight as possible to prevent the users from making any changes to it. (Restricted Finder, Windows Policies, etc.) Products like DriveShield (DeepFreeze is another one) work differently -- they don't lock down the machine to the user at all, they just prevent any changes from sticking across a reboot.
Protect the machine with DriveShield (or something similar), and have all the kids log in as the admin. Quick and easy to do, and the kids don't have to be restricted to a limited set of options on the computer!
We've been using this technique in several of our schools now (only in the open labs, mind you -- not the staff computers!), and the only support calls we now recieve in those labs is for hardware problems, not software.
- Bunny
Is it just me or are all the slash dot posts really boring today?
I recently bought a Powerbook and found nothing at all that would make any reasonably sentient Windows user have a problem with email and surfing the web. The only things you have to look a bit for are precisely the things she doesn't want them to mess with!
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Linux has a package called 'quota' where you can
set a maximum disk usage per account. This is
pretty handy and would allow them to save things
if they don't happen to have a floppy with them.
I assume since os-x is based on unix it has
something similar.
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
Disclaimer: I didn't use OSX before Panther, so this may not apply to the version you have.
Simple Finder is an incredible pain in the ass and confuses the hell out of Windows users. My girlfriend is largely computer-illiterate (she's memorized the motions and screen locations needed to operate Office, but not much else). I set up a limited account on my iBook because she couldn't seen to get to the web browser without dragging my Terminal icon off the dock. But that's a diatribe for another time.
I set up Simple Finder. No good. I can't blame her -- I couldn't really figure out how to get much actual work done with it.
In the end, I've been using a straight Limited Account for my Guest acct on the laptop, with much success. MacOS X already does a good job of keeping users out of one anothers' stuff, by properly setting homedir modes and whatnot. I've been working for a couple of weeks to bypass the Limited Account limitations, without luck. If you declare that the user cannot run a particular application, I haven't figured out a way around it that doesn't require admin.
However, unlike my experience with Windows, a limited account on OS X is still quite usable. Programs don't automatically expect to have root, and aren't able to sneak off and get it without asking (*cough*WinIE*cough*). If the need arises, the Auth Services password-dialog provides a way for an employee to work magic if necessary.
My recommendations, therefore:
1. Set up a 'Managed' account for the coffee people. Don't do per-user accounts unless you want to set up an LDAP server to handle it; cloning account settings on a single-user MacOS X system is a bitch. Retain an admin account for the employees.
2. Whitelist, not blacklist, the apps the user can run. Give them access to Safari and whatever else. Don't let them dork with the dock, etc. Specifically allowing access to a handful of apps will prevent them from firing up a new one from a USB key. Because they'll try. Oh, they'll try.
3. Unfortunately, I'd recommend against giving them iChat. iChat, unlike Windows AIM and GAIM, doesn't give you an easy way to switch accounts -- which is a must-have on a public terminal.
4. Lock down the keychain. Set Safari to not save passwords. Locking the keychain (with some known but non-obvious password) will prevent users from saving new items into it. This is a good thing.
5. Giving access to iTunes puts you in an interesting legal gray area. Like iChat, it provides no easy way to change accounts (in terms of iTMS). It also enables users to rip CDs. This may not be a good idea.
6. Unfortunately, OS X does not provide disk quotas, as far as I can tell (please, if someone knows different, clue me in!). The support is there in the filesystem, but there doesn't appear to be a UI. Keep this in mind.
7. As admin, periodically use Repair Permissions in Disk Utility to check for anything that's become accessible to the peons. More importantly, do this after you're done with the initial software install -- you'd be amazed at how much commercial software starts out world-writeable. (Bad Adobe.)
Good luck!
People may be more familiar with the use of Windows computers, but they are also more familiar with the abuse of Windows computers. Let the little hax0rs on your PC and see what happens. Yes, you can POLEDIT until your heart's content, until the hax0rs bring in their Linux boot CD with the Windows password cracker on it so they can get administrative rights and turn off the site blocker.
Keep in mind that there are NO known viruses for OS X, NO known spyware applications, and NO known adware applications. Not to start a flame war here, but the Mac system will likely be running the same way when you first put it in service as it will be months from now.
As for the setup of the computer, I would set up an administrator account and a user account. That's it. Do not allow the users to add/remove/modify accounts, change passwords, or even modify the dock. It works here at the school I work for -- it will work there too.
I just did something simular a few months ago. My dad is a highschool teacher and runs the "Tech" lab at the school. It has been a windows only lab, but after seeing how easy iMovie is to learn he has been wanting to get some Macs for a while now. Well the district just gave him money for two Macs, and since he isn't familiar with them I helped with integrating them into the Network and locking them down. Here is what I did.
/Users/student/ anyway. For our purposes this was good enough. All the windows computers had a program which restored the computer to a pristene state every time it was reboot, so the students were well trained that they needed to store everything on disc or thier network drive if they didn't want it to be lost. We were considering making a script that did the same to /Users/student, but decided it wasn't necisarry. The only potential problem would be if a kid messed with settings in /Users/student/Library/ that caused the program to behave unexpectedly. So we made a backup of that folder which the administrator can copy over the bad one if that does happen.
/Users/student to root and only give student read access, but you might run into problems. Things like programs complaining about not being able to save settings, or access a cache and temporary files in the home directory. You would have to play around with that.
You can lock down alot of things inside the users preferences. For example, you can specify that they are not allowed to changed any system settings (including those that would only effect their account like wallpaper), which applications they are allowed to run, and whether they can edit the doc. I locked all of these down, disallowing running the chat application and other things that they didn't need to be doing in class. I also locked down the terminal and disallowed >console login to prevent them from getting around what I had locked down. Anyway look there before you do anything else.
Not being a networking expert myself I didn't know if it was possible to have the kids logon to the windows domain, and automatically mount a home directory across the network (via smb). Furthermore it would a pain to manually recreate all those users, and I didn't have enough time to make an automated solution from scratch. So instead I just setup a single student account, and then wrote a script to mount thier network directories. I put a shortcut to the script in the doc. I also showed my dad how to create normal accounts, so that if a trustworthy student needs to do more than he can with the locked down student account he could give them an individual account.
For your purposes the big question is do the need to be saving things to the harddrive. If the answer is no (and I would expect it to be since they it is basically acting like a public terminal), just go with a single account. That will suffice for most people, and you can make special accounts for special cases.
As far as locking down the harddrive, by default they are restricted to
Actually I don't even know if it would be possible to completely lock the students out of using the harddrive altogether. Of course it would be trivial to just chown
Anyway I hope that helped.
... is there a way to prevent students from saving things on the hard drive (thus forcing them to use a diskette and/or the CD drive?), and/or a 'Simple Finder' interface extant for OS X? Is there existing software that makes this easier or more configurable, or is it all inside the OS?...
With due respect, from the questions you are asking, you've not spent much or any time using OS X in anything but basic "newbie" user mode and certainly spend about zero time configuring it in any way.
You should donate the computer to whomever you like and leave administration to them, or find someone knowledgeable in OS X and let them donate the time to configure and administer the computer.
Your sanity and the usefulness of the computer will be greatly benefited.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
Caffeine is a so-called "gateway drug", which can eventually lead to other things such as juice or even pop. Think twice before unleashing the power of coffee on unsuspecting teenagers. I wish someone had warned me when I was a teen. Look at me now, hanging out on Slashdot all day and drinking coffee*. Don't let it happen again.
If the Church is Amish, there may be problems with the iMac, being high technology and all. If they're against technology, give them an old Windows PC, there's less innovation in Win98 than a rusted salad fork, so it should be acceptable to even the most orthodox old dudes.
If these teenagers are anything like the teens I know, no matter what you do, one of them will have root access before you finish installing. Let them admin it, if you're over 30 they probably know more than you do anyway. It's sad that my non-computer-using wife can give me OS X tips, simply because she doesn't have to unlearn years of Windows and doing things the hard way.
* Even though the link between caffeine and Slashdot hasn't been proven to be cause and effect, empirical analysis supports the hypothesis. So monitor the system for warning signs, such as Slashdot being bookmarked.
I'm not normally an irrational zealous dickhead, but I figure "When in Rome..."
Anything 300+ MHz should be fine for basic X development (although maybe 500+ for Panther).
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
Macs: If a drunk guy from cleveland can do it, can't you?
You may also want to consider installing Linux on it. Linux requires less compute power than OS X and runs better on low-end machines. Also, distributions like Debian and YDL come with lots of pre-installed applications, including many educational apps, games, and office apps.
I work for a web dev company and we need to test Safari and IE Mac compatibility, so I bought an old iMac from a friend of mine for this purpose. I created an Admin account and a general user shared account.
You specify which applications they are allowed to run through System Preferences, as well as prevent them from changing passwords, burning DVDs/CDs, etc. If you have any kind of proficiency with UNIX, you can prevent them from writing to anything on the hard drive by setting the permissions through the terminal. There might be a tool to do this already, but I just use the terminal for what I need.
First of all, best of luck with this! I think it's a great idea. (Among other things, teens are already hanging out at several coffee houses in my area, and since they are commercial/for-profit establishments, it's a pretty expensive pastime for them. A non-profit version geared just for them might help them socialize without loads of cash getting pried from their fingers at the same time.)
But back to the Mac, have you considered the possibility of just using MacOS 9.1 on the grape iMac instead of OS X? I know this might seem foolish, but I bring it up for a couple reasons.
1. There's an excellent program for locking down a MacOS 9.1 (or earlier) desktop environment, called FoolProof. It's usually used in educational settings, but it's a very flexible way to prevent people from saving files to specific devices, deleting or rearranging icons on the desktop, and so on. (And yes, it even prevents people from trying to bypass it by booting without extensions enabled.) FoolProof is commercial software, but there's a good chance someone might have a copy they're no longer using that they could donate to the cause.
2. MacOS 9.1 would run much faster on an older iMac than OS X does, so it might give a better user experience in that respect.
3. You won't have a great choice of web browsers under MacOS 9.x - but at least you have Internet Explorer 5 for the Mac which was fairly recently patched to fix security issues/bugs, and feels familiar to most users. You also have the iCab browser which could be thrown on there as an alternate.
By default, USB mass storage devices get automounted at /Volumes/ with your basic read/write access enabled anyway on OS X. You shouldn't need to do anything special to enable write access to USB keys.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
I would go with the student/admin account it is easy to administrate. first I would start with a clean OSX install. then I would install all the software you plan on using includeing an office suite (free or otherwise) next I would make 2 user accounts Admin and Student Now if you are going to hand control of the admin acount over to someone else i would also set a password for the root account incase you need to help administrate this box at a latter time. You can do this by login as admin macHD->applications->utilities->terminal then type "sudo su -" enter your admin password passwd root set root password Useing the admin account you can turn off access to other applications/etc for the student account. System preferences select "Acounts" from the System section select the Student account and then the limitaions tab This will allow you to control that accounts access to applications/etc on the box Once you have the Student account setup the way you want. Fire up terminal agian (see above for location) Now that this is done we want to save the Student account in a safe place so we can "clean it" upon reboot. This way every time the Student logs in they will be presented with a clean account and one wont have to worry about the last user... first (we need to be root to do the following) sudo su - enter admin account password now we make a directory to store the backup stuff mkdir /lib/Managment/student
next we copy the account (in a manner that preserves mac specific files)
ditto -rsrcFork /User/Student /lib/Managment/student
Now that this is done we lastly need to setup the mac to replace the student account everytime someone logs in that way it is effecivly cleaned from the previous user. This keeps wasted space/etc down on the hard drive and provides some protection agianst a malicious user sitting down after a normal person leaves.
we need to setup a "Login Hook" that resets the account
good info on it is here:
http://www.bombich.com/mactips/loginhooks.html
but also here is what you do.
write a small shell script like:
#!/bin/tcsh -f
#backing up old student user
rm -rf /User/student /usr/bin/ditto -rsrcFork /lib/Managment/student /User/student
exit 0
then set the loginhook
sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.loginwindow preference script_above
Holy hot grits natalie portman!
Did anybody else read "macosxhints" as "masochists"?
As we all know, using protection is a good thing :D
Seriously though, if you want to lock things down a little more than the built in "limitations" feature of OS X, how about using Hi Resolution's MacPrefect product.
Macs are great for people who can use them but when you take the general public (idiots in general hence why we have so many virus problems) and start to mix MS things become messy.
Just a few points:
These are teens we are talking about, not senior citizens. They'll figure it out.
Virus problems solved by Windows??
Windows easier to use than Mac?
What kind of stuff do you think they need to do that will be so confusing on a Mac? A web browser and a word processor would be sufficient and those can only vary so much.
Some friends of mine set something like this up for a local ministry useing Linux. Everything is locked down and the internet is filtered. There are always a good number of people using the machines doing homework and webmail. It works pretty well.
Why have 1 person driving a backhoe when you could employ 20 with shovels?
Sounds like you have some hated in there... Haven't been to church in a while, have you?
If drunk people can handle a Mac, I'm sure high schoolers can as well.
Hell
It was like
Apparently some Windows user wants to mod my post down to hide the truth.
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Check it out here.
blarg.
The tray-load CD (266 or 333 MHz, 66 MHz FSB, RagePro) or the slot-load CD (350+ MHz, 100 MHz FSB, Rage128) version? The slot-load models are **much** faster under OS X. If you have a tray-load version, you may want to consider running a flavor of Linux.
If you can, round up one or two sticks of RAM to upgrade the machine to 384 MB or more. If you're going with OS X, try to use 10.3.x, it's much faster than previous versions... not so important for a G4, but for a little G3-based iMac like you have, it will make a big difference.
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How to set up a Mac as a Kiosk. Very informative!
Stop by an Apple store if you can. They give more free reign on their computers than you would, since people need to try them out.
I've noticed that every night at closing time, a cron job or something fires off and all the machines put up a screen saying something like "Updating from image" and are evidently reloading themselves from a saved image to overcome the day's fiddling and messing up by customers.
there's less innovation in Win98 than a rusted salad fork
that is so true
whatever browser you put on it, make sure you set the home page to www.landoverbaptist.com
Well, there are proof-of-concept viruses and malware...plus at least that one example in the wild on the pirated Office 2004 people got. But certainly, assuming nothing else goes wrong with it (as happens a fair amount, especially on older hardware)...yeah, should be a lot more solid than a Windows box in a similar situation.
If I had mod points I'd have used them negatively on your post instead of posting. Part of learning any operating system, or anything, is spending time it, poking around, and doing things you didn't know how to do. Another large part is asking questions from people who have the know-how, just like the OP did. Instead of sharing knowledge, which you presumably have, you decided to deconstruct his or her post.
I can't think of a better way to learn than learning while helping charity. If the OP was doing this for money, or for a multi-million dollar company you'd be right. But since this is a library, isn't it well within the very spirit of public libraries to learn? Really, you ought to be asking yourself why you're not learning to do something for charity that you didn't know how to do.
Setup your user (admin user) and a regular user. Allow them to save to the hard disk with a caveat....no files exist longer then one day. Write a script to clean out everything and restore things like standard Safari settings and the like (run Reset Safari to clean it up..not sure if this is scriptable). Put the script in the Admin User's crontab or root's crontab. For user saving files to disk, use a USB hub and have them use USB Drives for saving their items. Failing that, they could use CD-RW's.
Gorkman
Here is a simple Web page you can copy. The whole game is embedded in the page as JavaScript. Saved as a file, this page can be accessed any time, and works fine with no Internet connection. Also, for Spanish speakers, the page has been prettied up and translated. (Sorry, that link is not as exact as I'd like; click on "Actividades", and then click on "Adivina el numero".) You may need permission from the people who did the translation.
Dunno why it was modded as a troll, I think it's pretty damn funny!
unless your windows box is part of a domain, policy editor locks down features for EVERY user, not just one or two leaving the admin user normal.
I'd say you're very unfamiliar with Mac OS X. It's a multi-user system; there is no single-user environment!
//You can POLEDIT until your heart's content, until the hax0rs bring in their Linux boot CD with the Windows password cracker on it so they can get administrative rights//
Or, you can:
1. Password protect the BIOS
2. Disable "boot from CDROM"
3. Disable "boot from floppy"
Lots of good a bootable-anything would do them.
Hey that's awesome that you're donating it to your church. I suggest setting them up with iTunes, possibly Word or TextEdit (which TextEdit if you don't have a Word licence) Safari, and a few other fun Apps depending on the need in the dock. You could either create a general account, or you could do general and special accounts for regulars at the group. Make sure there's an admin password, and hopefully you have someone there who can actually use a Mac well so they don't just say it sucks. Make sure it's got at least 512 of RAM in it. Stick Panther on, and your teens should be happy.
www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Node/4081/
If the centre, or you have the resources - then think about talking to the young people who will be using the system about what should / shouldn't be available - and maybe even work with them to draw up an acceptable use policy (if neccessary).
That way, by consulting with them and involving them with the set up of the system, they'll gain more of a sense of ownership of it, leading to respect for the equipment - and, it will be set up to give them the maximum benefit in terms of what tools and programs are accessible and installed.
I continue to be impressed by how much faster my iBook (old, 500MHz) acts with 10.3 than the earlier iterations of OS X.
;)
Memory makes a difference, too, as you said -- this one is at 384, won't be getting any higher. I hope 10.4 has a similar speed boost, it's like getting a hardware upgrade
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
DeepFreeze is a program that i use in my 2 windows lab, but their is a OS X version available. It freezes the partition to a point that you can delete the partion, and when the computer is restarted everything returns to the frozen image. I use to reimage with a boot disk, but this is so much easier. the site is http://www.faronics.com/html/DFMac.asp Thank you for supporting youth, so many people forget them.
" That is my exact opinion on church people. but I wasn't trying to flame,'
Well I guess that you are a bigot then. This is not an opinon but a fact since you judge a whole group of people based on there religous belief.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Here you go.t n2062 .html
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/
Large source of information, links software and more.
I would rather do it with a pc running Netstop, but hay, if your set on a mac, then theres no changing your mind.
TruePunk | Games
For kiosk and public use stuff but one thing I would recommend ditching is the puck mice. The puck mouse was one of the worst design decisions ever to come out of Apple.
Check this out
Here is a better link to the Spanish Translation.
This is an Apple board, where we talk about Apple prodcuts and functions.
You want to talk Linux?
Go to a Linux board dedicated to that hippy OS.
sarcasm:off
Don't setup individual accounts! That would be incredibly time consuming. I would definitely have Student and Administrator accounts. You can set the Student preferences in System Preferences - Accounts. You can set limits on what they can do and what programs they can run (Capabilities).
If you have a budget and some time to learn, creating a Disk Image on a Firewire drive would be a great idea. Basically: Get everything working perfectly, make a disk image of the system, store it on the firewire drive and when something goes wrong down the line, just install the disk image. Within a few minutes you'll have your system right back where it was, without having to re-install everything from scratch, which could take hours. Try Carbon Copy Cloner and NetRestore from Bombich Software. Both are free! The firewire drive might put you back $150 but it's well worth it.
Also be sure to install tons and tons of filters that block Internet traffic that might contain objectionable material to Christians. You know, sex, rape, bloody murder, torture, suicide, etc. Oh wait, that would block just about everything down to http://www.bible.com/.
Nevermind.
... is there a way to prevent students from saving things on the hard drive (thus forcing them to use a diskette and/or the CD drive?), and/or a 'Simple Finder' interface extant for OS X? Is there existing software that makes this easier or more configurable, or is it all inside the OS?...
With due respect, from the questions you are asking, you've not spent much or any time using OS X in anything but basic "newbie" user mode and certainly spend about zero time configuring it in any way.
You should donate the computer to whomever you like and leave administration to them, or find someone knowledgeable in OS X and let them donate the time to configure and administer the computer.
Your sanity and the usefulness of the computer will be greatly benefited.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
Reminds me of in high school when our Windows 95 machines had Internet Explorer and Netscape removed. So I just used ftp.com and downloaded Netscape--until ftp.com was also removed. But Winamp was still on the machines, and since the IE libraries were still installed, I used the net through Winamp's browser.
She gave up at that point.
"Sufferin' succotash."
The maximum RAM for these things is supposedly around 512megs. I don't know if anyone has gotten anything higher in this type of computer. It has 2 sockets for 66mHz 144 pin SO-DIMM RAM.
10 Bits= $.25
100 Bits= $.50
110 Bits= $.75
1000 Bits= 1 byte
try contacting the ITD here at NC State. They used the cocoa framework form Safari plus some programming skills to make what is a really decent kiosk application, it runs as the shell in place of the Finder, and since it uses the WebCore, its basically safari but with lots of interface tweaks
e to the pi i plus one equals zero
I helped set up a number of iMacs in a Bio lab. Here is what we did: Set up an account so that it auto logs in. Set up this account with the simple finder and then in there you can specify which programs they can use, what directories they can access. Then set up these most used programs in the dock. We also set up a professor's account which is pretty much a standard Mac OS X user and an admin account for the lab manager.
Finally put the open firmware password in since we had some people who were booting on CD's and then fooling with the system.
We also had to lock down things in Classic since their major program in use was run under Classic. In your situation this probably won't be the case so things are MUCH simpler.
--jim
No... people that weaned on Wind0ze would say of an iMac: "Neat monitor. Where's the tower?" or [whine]"I can't install the internet!"[/whine]. Speaking of people ignorant to *other* Operating systems, I think that this comic woud be most relevant and interesting.
10 Bits= $.25
100 Bits= $.50
110 Bits= $.75
1000 Bits= 1 byte
thus forcing them to use a diskette and/or the CD drive? This iMac has a floppy drive?
Lots of good information directly from Apple can be found here.
Pornzilla
Then tell them they can look, but if they touch, they'll go blind.
I suppose if you somehow got a hold of the Mona Lisa, you'd cut it out and use the frame for Dogs Playing Poker .
Insightful? The stupid pot/kettle line that's on here 8 times a day is now "insightful"? Fer crissake's, what's next? A "so's your mother" post getting modded up insightful?
I mean, if it's their netcafe and such, shouldn't *they* be the ones to set it up to match all of their other systems? I'm assuming they have a fairly competent admin to do that for them already.
If I was getting a bunch of boxes donated to me to set up for a netcafe, the first thing I'd do is format them...
Or maybe that's too normal?
"An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program."
I run 11 computer labs of various sizes at recreation centers in Oakland. As we have no money, however, all of the computers in our labs are refurbished Windows 98 boxes. We use Deep Freeze to protect our computers from the students; it functions in a very similar manner to DriveShield, and it has cut the maintenance time for our machines by 90%.
We also use Linux boxes running DansGuardian as content-filtering routers. I cannot emphasize enough what a great boon this is to anyone trying to administer Internet-ready computer labs for kids.
Since Slashdot's script, in all it's infinite wisdom, wouldn't let me post due to "junk characters," I've posted my reply here [mac.com]. There are some instructions that might be helpful.
Silly idea, but possibly one that might save you a phone call or two.
Change the "Safari" icon (or whatever browser you're planning to use-NOT IE) to the Internet Explorer icon, and possibly rename the browser to "Internet Explorer." (Of course, delete the original IE.)
Chances are, most kids are used to IE on a Windows machine; when they see "safari," they'll have NO idea how to use it/what it is/blahblah without help from the person in charge. I know I've let all of my family (who use Windows) borrow my iBook, and they had no idea how to open the internet browser. As long as kids see an address bar, they know what to do from there.
Icons can be changed by selecting an app, right-clicking, going into "Get Info," then clicking on the smaller icon and copying. Following that, open "Get Info" on the other app which has the icon you're changing, click on the smaller icon, and paste.
"I plan to donate a grape iMac to a local church-run non-profit coffeehouse for teenagers, and would like to give it to them appropriately set up for the atmosphere it'll be in."
First, good for you!
Second, I'm afraid you need to give some details about just what the atmosphere this 'church-run non-profit coffeehouse for teenagers' has before one could say how the box should be set up. Could be anything from serious top-down control of unruly sheep, to a pretty happening group of young churchies who will take charge of a great deal themselves. Also, what slice of society are we talking about? Attitude aside, you're not telling us if the bulk of them already have computers in school and at home.
Fwiw, I maintained the box at a decidedly non-church teen-popular late-night downtown coffeehouse back in the 486 days. Abuse by intent and accident was rare but regular. The main thing that was needed was someone in earshot to take care of "problems with the computer" when it happened so the box wasn't down till "tomorrow" when tech guy came in.
Very possibly what you should be sure to include is a nice stack of books ranging from dummies to sys admin level so a few take-charge teens can become the on-site support staff. The combination of comp and books will help the group learn both tech skills and social skills.
How long before we see "RIAA vs. The Vatican" :)
On a more serious note, check out GNUStep. Pretty much anything written for GNUStep runs on OS X with a straight recompile, and it's a very nice environment in its own right. Oh, and Nicolas has just committed theme support to CVS so you can have it looking like OS X (the feel is already very similar since they both inherit from NeXTStep).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
First, how much dialogue have you had with whomever is responsible for the coffee house? Have they given you any direction on what they want or what's acceptable?
Ideally, they'd get some of the youth involved to give you ideas on the kinds of things it's likely to be used for. Then the coffee house folks can decide which of these ideas they're willing to run with (considering liability, parental ire, the neighborhood, etc.) What's desireable and acceptable is going to vary a *lot* depending on the church involved, the neighborhood, the teens, etc.
In other words, do you have any real requirements beyond, "A free computer? Yeah, that'd be neat!" This is probably going to be a non-trivial effort on someone's part (yours, at least), so you really don't want to waste effort of do anything counter-productive.
If you've done all this, great. Most people at this point have not.
As any punter knows, coffee will stunt their growth if imbibed during the formative years. They need to wait till they are 20 before they can start drinking the elixir of kings.
Sorry if I led anyone to actually believe that - it's a spoof, as described here.
But it's a damned good spoof, and has "gotten" a few people, not to mention the Register and infoworld, as mentioned in the linked article.
In the Sharing panel of the settings you can have the iMac share its internet connection with 802.11b users. This would be a nice feature if some of the teens have WiFi laptops and/or PDAs.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
I'd include some form of graphics drawing package with a graphics tablet. Let 'em draw, scrawl a note, mail the images to a friend.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Porn. Lots and lots of porn.
:P
Straight porn for the kids, kiddie porn for the church staff.
This is going to cost me some karma, isn't it.
Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
You can switch iTMS accounts by clicking the button in the upper right-hand corner, labeled "Account." That seems pretty simple to me.
can anyone tell me how to set up Mac OS X for a middle-aged to elderly adult coffee house?
Delete pr0n
All my mac lab machines are partitioned into two drives. The "temporary storage" partition can be read and wrote to by anyone. This is critical is you will have video or audio editing apps. You do not want them fill up the boot drive under the student account.
The students are warned that anyone can delete files on the 2nd partition and they have a 200MB quota on their network share, However, more and more they require large scratch disk places for their college projects. The 2nd partition is critical to allow flexibility for the students who are working on large files.
"I plan to donate a grape iMac..."
Only a Mac user would consider the color of the case to be a technical detail
(ducking)
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
YOU SIR, are a TROLL! slashdot should uniformly BAN all NON-CHRISTIANS so we do NOT have to put up with the likes of LOSER, OUTCASTS like YOU! why don't you JOIN THE FLOCK and quit trying to think you know better than GOD
Damn those pesky terrorists
For Mac OS X, I recommend the following free software:
Audacity . Audio Editor.
Colloquy. An IRC Client.
Cyberduck. FTP client.
Fugu. FTP client.
Shiira. Web browser written in Cocoa.
Camino. Web browser.
Firefox. Web Browser.
Mozilla . Browser/E-mail/Composer/Address/Chat.
Thunderbird. E-mail Client.
GnuPG for Mac. GNU Privacy Guard for Mac = Encryption for the people!
Give the kids choices. All of the above are free as in freedom as well as gratis.
Like Digital Freedoms? Then donate to EFF before they're gone.
virtual valerie 1 and 2 installed, prominently displayed.
-dk
Dream with the feathers of angels stuffed beneath your head.
The reason I care is that I have somehow set up a 10.2 lab with restricted application access (which I now need to remove). But I can't remember how I did that. The login account is served from a Netinfo server, so it doesn't show up in the local list of accounts, so capabilities can't be modified there. On the server, there are two Netinfo domains. The root one doesn't have the lab login account, and this is the domain that shows up in the Accounts preference pane. The domain that the account IS in is only accessible from the Workgroup Manager, which DOESN'T have the ability to edit capabilties.
Any ideas?
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that
Francis Smit
Slax
The Permission of the Beast!
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
This is, as you stated, a Christian coffee house.
What are you going to do to try and block the material which the proprietors will find offensive? Porn, and what else have you. This is important, as you can bet your bottom dollar on the fact that once someone gets caught surfing porn, they're going to want you to 'fix the problem'. You know as well as I do that this isn't reasonably possible.
(That is, unless the proprietor is the one surfing porn...)
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
But using encarta's "set editor" option. Ahh, that was fun. Pointless (no net access in Putaruru in '96), but fun.
GENERAL PUBLIC SIGNATURE (GPS) Any replies (derivatives) of this post must also use the GPS
Make sure to set an open firmware password. Otherwise, root access for all is a simple Cmd-S on startup away, and then all your security is for naught.
Also, set the machine up at home. Once you're done, try everything you can to break into it: start from a CD, an external drive, single-user mode, the works. Only if it's rock-solid should you let it out into the world. Trust me, kids with Macs in labs can be very, very clever.
I might be mistaken, but as I recall, FoolProof can be installed so you can't just hold down space at bootup and uncheck it. I believe that's just not one of the things it does in a default installation.
I know it also has such features as the ability to centrally administer FoolProof settings for a group of Macs on a network. (You won't get that kind of functionality in "At Ease".)
I'm not saying "At Ease" isn't a decent solution. For starters, it's free. I just remember FoolProof being vastly superior in a number of ways, back when I was looking at options for setting up older Macs for little kids at daycare centers.
If a MacOS 9.x system is properly locked down, I'd actually think it stands a better chance of being "hack proof" than OS X, simply because it's less complex. With the Unix core of OS X, you introduce a lot more underlying power in the operating system, bringing with it all sorts of creative new ways someone might find to open up security holes.
No fun intended but I bet someone will come up with this question where you donate your iMac (excellent btw)
:) You tell about teenagers, so let me give an address http://www.intego.com/contentbarrier/home.html
:) Not you. BTW I use their other products but not that one, so not sure about how good it works.
Its about content filtering
Of course they must buy it
I set up a similar lab about 6 months ago. Went with eMacs, which have been stellar - almost zero problems.
....
......nevermind
Emacs all the way!! Go-go GNU!!
hmm..... you mean Apple's eMacs?
What now? You speak as if the gospel of the risen anointed somehow contradicted the notion of proud gay nuns.
Who said he wasn't? Saddam's evilness isn't necessarily questioned just because US foreign policy is.
It's only mandatory praying we're opposed to.
Wow - you just published your student's e-mail addresses to Slashdot without their consent. THAT'S a massive problem!
One thing to keep in mind when setting up a youth focused forum (as many of us have) is that privacy is not just a good idea when working with kids - in many places it's the law. I would be extremely careful to make sure that you have people moderating the forum at all times and making sure that you have some idea who is posting. We regularly ask new users to give some personal information so that we can get to know them and begin some really decent conversations.
Remember - be safe and considerate!
pronoblem
Don't forget to turn off the OS X Single User Mode
this may just be me, but I would say to never use Simple Finder because it disables all keyboard commands in the finder... few things are more insulting to a skilled user. my school does it and it just hacks me off,
RedBear, I have to admit, I haven't really used an older iMac with OS X Panther yet. The last time I tried it, 10.2.8 had just come out. (I worked for a guy who used an iMac as his "spare computer" for the secretary to type up papers on and check email, etc.)
I just recall that in OS X 10.2 on the iMac, it seemed "sluggish". Yes, it was usable/functional, but certainly not a "pleasure" to use. Once you used a program on his G4 tower, it was painful to go back to the iMac to do the same tasks.
Also, I wouldn't want to bet money on the next OS X release running better on the older iMacs. In fact, I imagine Apple would like to phase out support for them completely. They already did so with the beige G3's. Apple's really not that interested in keeping your investment in old hardware alive and kicking. They just want to make sure you get enough use and enjoyment out of a given system so you'll remain loyal to their product line, and buy a new Mac when the old one starts to feel too "outdated".
There are certain advantages to staying "behind the curve" and matching up an obsolete OS and software to obsolete hardware. That's why lots of folks still happily run Windows '98SE on their 4 or 5 year old PCs. (If you tried to upgrade them to Windows 2000 or XP, you'd suddenly feel like you crippled the machine and need to buy a new one - but they still run the old OS they shipped with as well as they ever did when they were new.)
In the case of older Macs, you can use things like SCSI scanners and ADB port devices (keyboards, mice, printers, etc.) that no longer work in OS X. All the people who upgraded to OS X will gladly give this stuff away to you, and it makes for nice add-ons to a coffee house computer.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3724219.stm
unfiltered internet.