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Mobo for Vertically Challenged Devices
An anonymous reader writes "VIA is shipping an ultra-low profile mini-ITX mainboard suitable for flat TVs, LCD-panel computers, and other vertically challenged devices. The Epia MS uses a minimalistic I/O backplate and SODIMM memory for a slimmer form-factor, and is VIA's first mini-ITX board available with a fanless 1GHz Eden embedded processor. The board has several processor options, but they all include the PadLock Ace hardware RNG and AES encrypt/decrypt features that are now supported by the Linux and BSD kernels."
now we can install computers in the most ungodly places!
Theres plenty of room in a flat screen TV if you place the card verticly, am I missing something??
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -Aldous Huxley
If you hate it then don't come... Why is it so hard for people to understand that? Instead you come here, refresh the page 1000 times just to get your comment at or near the top. You are probably reading this site more than people who actually like this site... How twisted is that?
Screw my karma on this one...
Hmmm.
There are a few new words I see popping up that I find entirely disagreeable, such as blog, mebi, gibi, etc. But mobo I can handle.
For a board that concentrates on being thin, I find it surprising that that dimension isn't listed. It's not on Via's product listing for this board and it's not in the user's manual (pdf).
Visually, i'm guessing that it is thicker than the 0.75" base of my PowerBook, but I'd like to know the real size...
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
Aren't flat TVs depth challenged rather then vertically challenged? Unless of course you lay it on the ground and stand over it to watch it.....
It's so nice to see that you finally quit referring to them as "midget" devices and went with the much more PC "vertically challenged" devices.
Now we can finally build our own WiFi Surfboards!!! Apart from the crazy ones, mobos like this will probably open up a whole slew of new uses.
Help a college student
This would be an excellent board for a quiet mini-system. Toss in something like a thumb drive or whatever and it would stay quiet. BTW Toms hardware said they will sell for around $180 too, which is pretty reasonable.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
To a linux-y iMac? IE a very small, compact all in one computer that runs linux? Could make some serious inroads for linux on the desktop. A think the appeal of the iMac lies in that it is small, easy to hook up(no rats nest), and has astehtic value.
Making a cheap version of this could definatly have market potential(esp. since you can control the hardware, it makes plug and play linux even easier)
What with the aes padlock - does the chip have a FPU? Are they going to start bringing the prices down. The ECS Ubuddy was dirt cheap, but ECS abandoned ITX. I spent 12 weeks in RIA hell, finally got a Ubuddy with a new mobo that I had to put a P-4 in. Oh well. Is their linux drivers better - was hell getting Mndrake 8.2 and 9.1 up on the 733 mhz mobo? I finally got a machine that rocked, and then the fan was spluttering and ECS eventually said they abandoned that mobo due to the voltage regulator. Oh well, Mark
i love the small, quiet, cool boards, but why cant anyone make an EPIA board with two network interfaces? VIA, are you listening?
Is it just me, or wouldn't Vertically challanged tend to mean something that has a hard time standing up, or something that is horizontal most of the time? Seems like flat panel monitors and the like are horizontally challanged, if anything.
I dont know, but from the image, the board does seem a bit fat...
it could yust be the fact that the mobo is smaller on the 2 flat axes tho.
All indicators show that the human race is selectively breeding itself for stupidity.
"Vertically Challenged"
I'm a dwarf you insensitive clod!
#
# Modus Ponens
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Not small enough, not quiet enough. I can see a fan on that website. Fans are evil. But thank heavens at least VIA is doing this kind of thing... keep going VIA!
Besides, the MS is a passively cooled 1GHz processor that performs as well as a 200 GHz pentium. The only thing these EPIA boards are good for is data encryption/decryption. Home users want the kind of power that will decode an Mpeg-4 stream smoothly.
I must admit, the VIA boards/procs severely beat even a 2.4 pentium (and up) and the 32bit XP processors when it comes to data encrypt/decrypt
My question is this - this PC is slimmer, so we can cram them in to some rather unthinkable places... but what will the power requirements be for such a box? Likely quite a bit less, and if they are so much less that we could use start jamming them into cars (without causing a significant power drain, that is), then I don't see why we couldn't have them pump their video into the mini LCD screens already built in to many vehicles nowadays.
Of course, as soon as some dumbass causes an accident because he was playing Nascar 2k4 alongside his REAL driving, then we'll really get to start throwing out the bad puns.
"He crashed his 'puter! OMGLOLWTFBBQ!!!11one1"
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
So this is a laptop mobo without the lap?
oh, you can put it sideways (as if the electrons would fall out)?
So it's a lap-side?
Am I missing something here?
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
Aren't flat-panel monitors and TVs *horizontally* challenged?
The CPU is barely equivalent to a Celeron 600, the video quality (s-video) is quite low, the control panel (Windows, sorry) for the surround sound is brain-damaged, and the tiny fan is much noiser than one would expect.
That board does not come with any sort of hardware monitor app, and I had to replace the CPU fan with a larger, slower one to cut down the noise to the originally promised "whisper" level.
Not a bad board, but if fails to meet any of the expectations it sets in its specs. Make sure to read the hardware reviews, and buy from a seller with a money-back guarantee.
Sounds like a good fit for a lot of security-related applications--rackmount DMZ servers, firewalls, central controller for various physical security devices (biometrics controlling electronic locks on doors, etc.) I knew that the hardware RNG and AES-encrypt/decrypt functions were supported by OpenBSD a while ago (don't ask me when...I think by the time 3.4 came around. Confirmation?) It's no small feat to have them in other kernels, and bodes well for OSS applications. I'd assume it's also low-power due to the small form factor, which is another plus. Can't check the article, as my manager's about to breathe down my neck. :)
That big ass heatsink is reminiscent of old Sun hardware. Perhaps I should go drag those Sparc 2s out of the dumpster.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
While there are indeed fanless mini-ITX systems, this ain't one of them.
You were 80% angel, 10% demon. The rest was hard to explain. - Over The Rhine
"Math in a song is good."-Linford
Via needs to get rid of all onboard connectors and replace them all with handy-dandy pinouts on the mainboard instead. Would make for some WAY easier modifications, as you can mount the connectors wherever the hell you want them and then wire them to the mainboard, instead of trying to force the mainboard into some awkward angle just so you can plug in the mouse and keyboard...
Hate me!
It is vertically challenged. I rarely see anyone put an HS(F) on something while it's mounted sideways.
According to the pictures on Linuxdevices.com this board is neither specially thin (why make only one row of I/Os on the backplate if the power connector and CPU cooler are thicker?) nor fanless (apart from the fact that a fan needs room above it as well!)
VIA pulled their version of WASTE from the webpage. Their version had an alternate encryption library which was GPL-licensed, but it was still non-GPL-compliant because they did not GPL all the interface code or something. I did of course preserve the source... But the point is, where did it go? Is it coming back? Et cetera.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I wish they'd gone with the CN400 northbridge instead... oh well maybe for the Epia MS II =)
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
But ... that heatsink it quite large, they might as well have put all the interfaces on the back panel!
Maybe it they removed the PCI slot and put some of the other interfaces along that side of the board they could truly make it an expandable thin system? Also if they upgraded to the CN400 chipset in addition...
* reasonably happy owner of a VIA Epia800 - mainly because I got it 20 months ago and it hasn't depreciated one bit since *
It's not fat.
It's just big-boned.
Has someone really proven that the apparent quantum randomness is really random?
-Mike
It may come as a surprise to some, but there's quite a lot of interest in very small and very quiet PCs. Just check out this site as a for instance. And there's also this review on Tom's Hardware site.
Just look at the way they do 1U rackmount servers. They are I think 1.75 inches deep, which is about 10%-50% thicker than a laptop. Or perhaps use a laptop motherboard.
The shipping date is September. It is not shipping now. Ditto for the Nano-ITX.
I spit on people who won't spend 60 seconds doing fact checking.
cower before morbo puny earthlings!
See either chapter 2 of the manual or the paragraph below the second photo of the motherboard on the Linuxdevices article: The Epia MS is the first VIA mainboard available with the fanless 1GHz VIA Eden ESP processor announced last February. The board is also available with a fanless 800MHz VIA Eden ESP processor, or with a "fansink" equipped 1.2GHz VIA C3.
IE a very small, compact all in one computer that runs linux?
and it doesn't run on linux either
Great idea, but I'd want to see some serious validation of the claim that their RNG is 'quantum' based.
In fact, looking at the report on the RNG operation (Paid for by Via) here's how it works:
http://www.via.com.tw/en/viac3/via_c3_padlock_eval uation.pdf "3.1. Entropy Source
The RNG hardware comprises two parts: a raw-bit generator that serves as an entropy
source and digital post-processing circuitry. The raw-bit generator produces somewhat
random bits which the design assumes will have imperfect statistical properties. The
post-processing circuitry then uses .whitening. and bit discarding to improve the
statistical properties of the imperfect random bits. .... "
The paper concludes that the VIA RNG is well suited, but says *nothing* about it's being 'quantum' based.
Sounds like some marketdroid really didn't talk to the engineering people before writing the ad copy for this puppy.
Linux is Linux, if One need clarify their dist: <Dist>/GNU Linux
bsds are of course just BSD
as normal PC components get smaller and cheaper, why not just let them use standard device? so that we can hook the digital tv to the internet, which will update its codec periodically in case there's something new out.
The first guy who will come out with a laptop-form factor chassis for those motherboards will make a killing, a bit like the "lunchbox" chassis of yesteryear.
We'll be able to crank-out custom laptops make to suit our desires without having to contend with proprietary crap which won't properly run [insert favourite non-proprietary open-source/subversive operating system]...
Real real thin - except of course for the LOX chiller pump !
Okay, so what's with this 'fanless' claim? Fully half of the mobo is covered by a heatsink, yet there IS a fan right there in the picture. I'm confused.
Also - can this thing boot from that CF connector? That's the problem with several of these things lately - no bootie from CF.
I'm fully intending to make a nice MAME box out of a system like that, booting a massively stripped-down Win98/ME hybrid off a CF card.
I own several of the VIA boards ( M10000's in particular ) and this doesn't seem to be any smaller than what I've already got. The size of the heatsink and fan in the pictures seems to make it about he same height as any of the other motherboards. It looks even a little bigger if you consider you've now got a separate SODIMM socket on the bottom for the memory. It looks like if you just went with a regular memory socket on the top, it'd still be shorter than that huge chunk of aluminum.
I also don't understand the "minimalist backpanel" with only a VGA, Ethernet, and cardbus connectors. Everything else ( all the usual suspects - audio, USB, TV-out, etc ) are headers on the motherboard. I'd be much happier if they made -everything- use sockets or pin headers on the motherboard. This way you could mount the motherboard and sockets separately any way you wanted, without having to have access to the edge of the board. I ran into this problem with one of my projects where I was trying to mount a motherboard flat in the bottom of a toolbox. The motherboard fit fine, but I didn't have room to plug the cables into the motherboard backpanel. This was an unusual project that is trying to be as small and unobtrusive as possible and keep all cables hidden inside the case, which is a tupperware type storage container. I would have loved to be able to plug all of them directly into the top of the motherboard. As it is, I had to mount the motherboard on edge with the backpanel facing up, because that was the only way I could get the room to plug the cables in ( VGA, USB and network ). Made the whole thing a lot bigger than it had to be.
I'd use a USB adapter for that- not only does it allow you to avoid size limitations, but you can adjust the antenna position to your liking very easily. USB wireless adapters are about 50 bucks these days, and are probably a better idea than PCI wireless devices in a desktop machine, anyway.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
I could not believe the noise the fan made. I got the same motherboard to make a new server, silent that is.
I got another fan that helped and have been running that for some months. But I just finished installing a new heatsink 2 hours ago that are 3 times higher. It seemed to help with the bigger heatsink and fan, and I finally got what I wanted in the first place. Just too bad it should be so much trouble.
Anybody have any experience using the VIA EPIA boards for DVD and video playback? I'm specifically interested in the MII 12000 for creating a MythTV box. I was also thinking MicroATX, but Pentium 4's and Athlon XPs run hotter and draw more power than the C3. I'd like to keep the power supply and CPU Fan and as quiet as possible.
Extreme Tech was decidedly underwhelmed by the M10000 while mini-itx.com seems to think is fine. The mini-itx review seemed a little hand-wavy though.
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In X-Windows the client serves YOU!
Think of how an online store would have to handle this. This would be awful for them, and would destroy any small business distributing these things, it is best to have a manufacturer warrenty, since it isn't the warehouses fault, and then you would probably expect them to cover shipping it back, and pay your original shipping too? You people need to look at the source of the problem, not the wholesaler.
Sig: I stole this sig.
Quantum Mechanism
The only truly random generator is a mechanism that detects quantum behavior at the sub-atomic level. This is because randomness is inherent in the behavior of sub-atomic particles.
A quantum based hardware generator is practical, with examples that have been used including:
The charge developed on a capacitor during a particular time period.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
How come there aren't mobos and cases to make your own laptops (that I know of...)?
With the clock rates climbing above what the *average* user needs, the next push should be into making the whole smaller.
I'd love to be able to buy an empty case and LCD and slip my own choice of mobo/system in and go. The case could have knockouts for various different configs.
Fritz
___________
Huh?
I couldn't help but follow the link in your sig. Quite honestly, I'm sure that site must make some relevant points somewhere, and I'm sure that Moore is no perfect saint, but how are we supposed to take it seriously when they can't even veil their political leanings? The man makes a movie that bashes the current administration, and the response to that is a website saying he's cracked, and plastered with ads for Bush / Cheney bumperstickers, t-shirts, playing cards, a petition for a Reagan dollar, and a link to a site entitled "the museum of left wing lunacy". It makes it rather difficult for me to even *read* their articles, and even more difficult to believe them.
do not read this line twice.
You mean like that flat-panel I-Opener internet appliance that everyone hacked into Linux boxes a few years back?
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Does anyone else find it ironic that an article touting the low-profileness of a product doesn't actually state the HEIGHT? It can't help but remind us of the 6.7"x6.7" dimension of the standard.
It seems a bit daft that it still uses a vertical ATX power connecter, as once you have plugged it in, you will have the combined height of the plug and the curvature of the cable increasing the overall height.
Surely they could have come up with some means of side-mounting the ATX connector?
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
Finally those old Emachines E-One computers can get an upgrade.
The heatsink on that thing looks bleedin humongous. And then what if I wanted to use that pci slot? I could put a card directly in it, eliminating the whole purpose behind the design of the mobo, or I could get a huge riser and place the card parallel to the heatsink, which would still make it pretty high, I would think. And then what about the heat from the sink on the pci card?
The only interesting thing about that mobo is the elimination of the backplane, but what difference does it make if the heatsink takes up that much height anyway?
It's about damn time they got rid of parallel and serial ports, imho. The only systems using those kinds of mobos and ports are POS (point of sale). For the rest of us, the ports aren't really useful.
-kidlinux.
Is it just me, or wouldn't Vertically challanged tend to mean something that has a hard time standing up, or something that is horizontal most of the time?
I think it's P.C. for "midget"
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I think the more important question about this motherboard (rather than the RNG) is the Video Controller. You can live without a properly configured RNG, but given that the kernel support for the CLE266 that came with the earlier EPIA boards is still little more than token, I would suspect not much will be different here.
... you'll see what I'm talking about:6
The DRM support is non-existant, and the X drivers are always so old that they prevent you from using Gentoo. At least NVidia's graphics drivers work (because of the OSS adapter module), but the CLE266 ones are dreadful.
This has latest supported distros
http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=325#cle26
After owning the EPIA boards for 2 years, I've given up trying to get X to work with the VIA drivers, and gone back to console only or VESA X11 driver - which means movies are not really an option. Kinda pointless really isn't it ?
Servlet v2.4 container in a single 161KB jar file ? Try Winstone
In case you want to know more about silent PC systems www.silentpcreview.com is a great resource. I'm in no way affiliated with that site, I just think it has LOTS of good information about this subject :)
Interesting that a board designed for low profile would have a vertically mounted PCI slot. Doesn't it make more sense for the slot to go horizontally?
Huh, guess they didn't think of that.
It's cute, but that's a big honking base on it. Some of its size constraints include having enough weight to balance the monitor (otherwise you'd probably have to screw or clamp it to the desk), room for disk drives, and room for CD/DVD/etc which are non-trivial size.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks