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Dell to Ship Linux Desktops in Europe
Anglophile writes "Looks like Dell has launched a new line of desktop computers. The Dell Optiplexes will be sold in Europe, come with the Linspire operating system and include a one year free membership to their download warehouse. "
Something wrong with the big distros?
So are they gonna be $150 cheaper?
When will we see the same thing for Xandros?
Disconnect and self-destruct, one bullet at a time.
This is great ! If DELL is putting their weight behind that will be a major policy shift for *many* corporations.
- People who believe other people have no right to live, got no right to live ...
SCO x DELL
A few years ago, didn't Dell ship desktops, laptops and servers and sich with Red Hat Linux on them, nyet?
Sounds like a scam...
does it run linux?
I'm surprised Dell hasn't done this sooner. But then again, Linspire is of recent vintage and was the first to make desktop Linux feasible on the large scale. Now people can obtain an entirely-Linux solution from Dell -- from the server to the desktop -- and all I can say is it's about time.
I never vote for anyone. I always vote against.
-- W.C. Fields
Dell Optiplexes will be sold in Europe, come with the Linspire operating system and include a one year free membership to their download warehouse. Hmmmm... well, as long as they don't institute BestBuy's new "The Customer Is No Longer Always Right" policy, then I should be able to buy an Optiplex, get the one year free membership of downloads, and return the Optiplex. Woohoo!
Why Linspire? Why not use a bigger, (dare I say it) better distro. SuSe 9.1 is Europe's biggest distro, why not that? Is there some anger between Novell and Dell?
So Dell returns home to Linux...
I bought several PC's from Dell in 2001 with RedHat preinstalled... They shipped with driver disks too...
Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
Sig changed for readability by G.W.
Download warehouse? is that like an apt-get repository? DAMMIT! It was so OBVIOUS! To get Linux on the market, it had to become paying, then add free offers!
Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
The article I read inquirer.net didn't say if the machine was for whoreporate or home use.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
looks like this is a bit misleading - in fact, Dell is shipping them, but they are actually being sold by an Italian company called Questar. So while they are technically Dell machines and even shipped by Dell, this is not a big move by Dell onto the European linux market, it's a smaller company taking the initiative in partnership with Dell...
"Linspire? Never heard of it..."
It was originally called Lindows. Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine. Not even the screengrabs would have been a dead-give-away. "Oh, must be a typo."
Do they still pay the microsoft tax? I would assume Dell passes the savings of not paying for an OS right into their pocket. Consumers will not see lower prices.
Lindows was banned. That's why it changed to Linspire.
Finally there's a version of the trickle-down theory that actually works.
I'd bet that Dell made this decision because there are many large users (Munich decision, with many more considering) who will be switching over in the work-place.
Many non-techie employees of those organizations will want to have the same environment at home as at work -- two OSs is simply too "confusing" for point-and-click types.
And as more and more large institutions move to Linux whatever reason (there are many), I think we will see more and more pre-packaged systems available on a retail level.
"could basically shut down Dell by not selling to them"
Microsoft COULD do that, but it'd be a blantant violation of their slap-on-the-wrist agreement with the DoJ. They probably couldn't get away with it, and would be forced to start selling to Dell again.
Linspire, previously known as LindowsOS (also Lin---s, pronounced as Lindash), is a Linux distribution based on Debian. It targets the consumer user - its distributors market it more intensively than all other Unix-based or Unix-like distributions except Mac OS X. As Lindows, it was the first Linux distribution to replace Windows in home consumer desktop systems at a substantially lower price than Microsoft Windows.
Michael Robertson, the founder and former CEO of MP3.com functions as the CEO of Lindows, Inc. It is still called "Lindows, Inc" even though the product is now Linspire.
Microsoft Corporation sued Lindows, Inc for its use of the term "Windows", which Microsoft claimed constituted a trademark infringement. In February 2004, a judge rejected two of Microsoft's central claims. Though Microsoft lost the core of its case, and says it will appeal the decision, for uncertain reasons it also called the decision "a victory". (See Microsoft vs Lindows for more information.) Lindows was renamed Linspire to avoid further legal action by Microsoft. Michael Robertson called the legal action "Sextuple Jeopardy", which is like "Double Jeopardy" but sextupled.
Lindows, Inc had the initial goal of developing a Linux-based operating system capable of running major Windows applications as well. It based its Windows compatibility on the development of WINE by the Linspire team. Lindows.com later abandoned its initial approach in favor of making Linux applications easy to download, install and use. They achieved this using an application called Click-N-Run, a program based on Debian's Advanced Packaging Tool, providing an easy-to-use interface and a slightly modified package system for an annual fee (apt-get costs no money, but has less user-friendliness). Click-N-Run has over 1,000 pieces of software for download.
Lindows, Inc sponsors many open-source projects and events, including the Gaim instant messaging client, the KDE-Apps.org (http://www.kde-apps.org/) and KDE-Look.org (http://www.kde-look.org/) websites, and the Nvu project, which has started to develop an open-source WYSIWYG website editor (based on the Mozilla composer code) to rival FrontPage. In the past, Linspire.com has contributed over $500,000 to the WINE project.
Editions
Several varieties of Linspire, known as editions, target different markets. Three main editions exist: Standard, Developer and Laptop.
External links
Maybe Dell can work out a deal where anyone can sell their machines with any o/s preloaded as a ghosted image, provided you send them the CD and you're liable if the image is crap... that would be sweet! Then we could all compete with our favorite o/s's and with wal-mart (to some tiny degree)
stuff |
MS is dependent on its oem retailers probably more than the other way around.
The distro wasn't banned, the courts just made the company change the name.
"Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine."
It's funny how this detail is conveniently forgotten on Slashdot when it comes to making arguments about why Microsoft is in the wrong in that case. Protect the consumer, not the underdog.
"Derp de derp."
"All Dell computers sold by Questar will be equipped with word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation software and file compatibility with Microsoft Office."
Linspire comes with Open Office 1.1.
While there is a great deal of compatability between Open Office and MS Office, there are still issues
Sounds a little misleading to me.
They probably couldn't get away with it
Depends if Bush gets re-elected or not.
That's what Microsoft said too; that's why they sued Lindows. But of course, anyone who suggested that they might just be right about the confusion got flame broiled...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Linspire is Debian-based and one of the most windows-like distribution. Besides, it has an excellent software upgrade system that is esy to use for everyone. It makes sense.
:).
And I am a Mandrake user and apologist
"That's what Microsoft said too; that's why they sued Lindows. But of course, anyone who suggested that they might just be right about the confusion got flame broiled..."
What really irks me about the anti-MS sentiment on this topic is that it's WAY too late to do anything about it. MS owns the trademark regardless of whether or not they can put a (R) next to it. It'd take years to un-weld it from people's minds. At this point, setting it 'right' would potentially put a LOT of consumers out there in a position where they have to be unnecessarily careful. That's exactly why this whole trademark system was put into place to begin with. Oh, but we MUST SCREW MICROSOFT! BUAHAHAHA!!
Lame. The really really really stupid thing is that Lindows could never ever claim they landed on that name by accident. Their maliciousness in this case needs to be a factor in this as well. They cannot possibly ignore that even if MS had no legal right to trademark Windows years ago they would still be confusing people. You don't want Lindows to win this. It would set a precedent that would give MS the power to do the same thing to somebody else (i.e. Palm). Bad bad bad.
..coming from a company that uses Redhat on the server side of things. I mean, I know that Linspire has been geared towards former windows users who use linux for whatever reason, and the major desktop target audience from Dell is full of windows users, but now they are going to have to widen the support level won't they?
while true ; do echo this is my sig; done
http://www.questar.it/dell/
Italian only
This guy is right. People here make anti-microsoft claims just for the karma. Rarely are they backed up with any credible evidence. It's a shame to see a good discussion revolve around some jerk who should me modded down as "-1, Jumped on the Bandwagon"
If you like microsoft then use them. If not, then don't. And btw, I use gentoo, but I only say that not to get modded down as an ms fanboy because that's how some will read this.
Please don't try to hurt what we've done here. We've brought as many brainless anti-corporate zealots together to form our own little "pretend" community, where we can spearhead a global movement against a non-existant threat. I personally would much rather consider myself a 'revolutionary' than an 'arrogant intellectial with hidden self esteem problems.'
Posts like yours only remind us of that reality that exists upstairs where our parents are working hard to make this dream possible.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
No they didn't, Lindows won the court cases and were allowed to keep the name, but then MS started suing them in so many countries that Lindows couldn't afford to fight them all and just decided to stop fighting and change the name to Linspire. In Holland and the UK, for instance, they've won and are allowed to keep the name Lindows.
'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
The menu choice would then say "[ ] Microsoft Windows". Even the biggest idiot in the world would have no confusion distinguishing that from "Lindows". The consumer is already protected without needing to privatize a word already in general use.
It's is the only linux distro I know of that will literally speak to you as if you're an idiot with Audiot Assist Tutorials!
Checks Irish Site...
No Linux option...
This bugs me especially considering they make the danm things right outside my back door. And yet I will always be the last customer to get bargins.
May the Maths Be with you!
Things may have changed, but in the past, in the US at least, Dell's customers called Dell support for any issue. The Dell Tech determined if the call was a Linux issue or a Hardware issue. Then, if it was a hardware issue, the customer was handled by the Dell tech. If the issue was a Linux issue, the customer was forwarded to Red Hat's tech support.
That was a few years ago, and since then, Red Hat has had some big changes in their support model, and Dell has sent all its tech support to India, and brought parts of it back again, so YMMV.
"Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
While on Slashdot we hear endlessly about Red Hat, Debian, etc., the volume manufacturers are going with Lindows, Linspire, Thiz, and in China, Red Flag. Maybe those should get more coverage. What do the installed base figures look like?
"The consumer is already protected without needing to privatize a word already in general use."
Bullshit. Everybody calls it Windows, not Microsoft Windows. Additionally, the parent company if Linspire is called Lindows.com. To further confuse things, Microsoft has several variations of Windows like 2000, XP, Me, etc that people are familiar with. Calling it "Microsoft Windows" is not enough by a long shot, especially when compared to "Lindows.Com Lindows".
What they'd need is a big bold sentence saying "This is not the same as Windows! Watch out!" Not even a screenshot would differentiate between the two. Protected consumer, my ass. If Microsoft made a product called Winux, you all'd suddenly change sides on this issue.
"Derp de derp."
2003: Dell asks MS for bigger discount. MS declines.
2004: Dell starts selling PCs preloaded with Linspire.
2005: MS quietly increases discount for Dell.
2005: Dell quietly withdraws Linspire PCs, claims no market demand.
It should be mentioned that they do offer the N-Series desktop, which is pretty much a barebones 2400 (Low end model) with nothing installed (blank hd) and a disk with FreeDOS on it. And this is available to just about anyone. Its a very lowend machine, but not a bad option.
. as px/featured_nseries?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s= dhs
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic
Blake
that it will be easier to support Linux than listen to all the complaints about XP SP2 breaking compatability.
Irrelevant. Everybody in the South calls a glass of Pepsi a "Coke". That doesn't mean that Pepsi should get a trademark on the word "Coke".
To further confuse things, Microsoft has several variations of Windows like 2000, XP, Me, etc that people are familiar with. Calling it "Microsoft Windows" is not enough by a long shot, especially when compared to "Lindows.Com Lindows".
[ ] Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
[ ] Lindows.com Lindows
If those two choices seem confusing to you, you've got bigger problems than choosing an OS.
What they'd need is a big bold sentence saying "This is not the same as Windows! Watch out!"
And yet they're supposed to read, understand and agree to abide by the 10-page EULA full of obscure legal and technical language.
If Microsoft made a product called Winux, you all'd suddenly change sides on this issue.
I don't see any problem at all with the name "Winux". Notice that the fact that it's not an English word makes it a good choice for a trademark name. I would encourage them to go for it, but unfortunately it seems to already be the name for an Indian Lindows-like product, as well as the name of a recent cross-platform virus.
when the salesman tells him it's just as good as Windows only cheaper?
If the salesman does that, he'll probably lose his job. I was at Best Buy yesterday...I was considering picking up VMWare and a copy of WinXP.
They didn't have VMWare. Looking around, I noticed they didn't even have any distribution of Linux. And no software at all that runs under Linux. (Unless you count games like RTCW where you download the binaries from the website.)
Stores aren't going to want to sell Linux machines until they can stock their shelves with software that will run on it. Which, ironically enough, is unecessary.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
I was at a Best Buy yesterday in Emeryville. They had both RedHat WS and Suse 9.1. They also had Rekall (sorry, don't use it - don't like the company), as well as a couple of BSD app collections on CD. And trythfully, I've never seen VMWare in any store.
I think it really depends on the store's client base whether Linux and apps are stocked or not.
The map is a little spotty in areas, maybe you live in a non-Coke spot.
"Microsoft COULD do that, but it'd be a blantant violation of their slap-on-the-wrist agreement with the DoJ."
And?...
They will never stop until somebody makes the
If you actually bothered to RTFA (which almost no one on this thread has seemingly done), you might have noticed that these PCs will be shipped with the "English or Italian" versions of Linspire.
This line will not, for the short term, be targetting the French or German markets, where there's been the most high-profile noise about switching. Rather, it seems to be aimed at Britain (where the noise has been mixed and lower-level) and Italy, where I can't recall any high-profile switch stories.
If there is anything at all to this business plan, it would demonstrate a "trickle-up" story of Linux on the desktop: it's already happening, in small ways that don't make the headlines. Munich and so forth are nice PR, but the revolution will not be televised. It'll probably happen at a dozen dried-octopus dealers in Calabria and Liverpool before it gets past the policy point at the Munich and Paris bureaucracies.
While we're all focused on the high-profile intending-to-switch cases (some of which will probably go bust anyways), desktop Linux is already being deployed on a small scale, for unfashionable uses, by people who aren't interested in being poster-children for the anyone-but-Microsoft crowd, who are making the switch out of business sense, rather than anti-Americanism.
This is how Linux made it into the server market in the last decade: at the beginning, adoption was basically driven by admins surreptitiously installing it in firewalls, print servers, file shares, places where the suits wouldn't notice.
Desktop Linux is like unto a thief in the night. Be watchful for it, but do not expect to see it until it's already made itself at home.
Google confirms: Ruby is the world's most beloved programm
You just brought up a good point, sadly it's in my favor. First off, people don't call a can of Pepsi a can of Coke. This is a myth.
Not in the South.
Mother: What kind of Coke do y'all want?
Child1: Sprite.
Child2: Mr. Pibb.
Child3: Pepsi.
(Actual overheard conversation in Theta (thee-ta), TN.) Southern 'coke' is equivalent to US standard 'soda', Midwest 'pop', or New England 'tonic'.
Google confirms: Ruby is the world's most beloved programm
The biggest cool thing is that they really understand average users. They worry seriously about things like how hard it is for users to change the time, and what users will think of having to do more to change the time than click on their clock.
Also they will be using reiser4 in their next big release.:)
It was still Lindows when I tested. Some things may have change. In Lindows (the version I got anyway), apt-get simply refused to work.
And to clarify on the GPL, I know what you can bundle or not but they should write as the other distro that many packages included comes with their own license. Instead the EULA that poped-up when I first ran it, told that *everything* was copyrighted by them.
Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
Apt-get does work. You have to uncomment some lines in /etc/apt/sources.list, and then you can apt-get to your hearts content. You don't have to use click-n-run at all if you don't want to, but if you want something reliable and that won't break, it can be a nice feature. Not to mention the fact that you get many discounts on commercial apps by being a paying subscriber.
change the thread title
i nu x+PCs+in+Europe/2100-7344_3-5259014.html?tag=nefd. top
http://news.com.com/Dell+clarifies+reports+of+L
Dell clarifies reports of Linux PCs in Europe
Last modified: July 6, 2004, 5:35 PM PDT
By Michael Kanellos
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
A PC dealer in Europe has begun selling Dell desktops equipped with Linux, but Dell emphasized that the systems were customized by the dealer and that this isn't the first time this has happened.
Questar, an Italian-based computer seller, has begun to ship Optiplex business desktops loaded with Linspire 4.5, a version of Linux, and a copy of OpenOffice, an open-source alternative to Microsoft's Office software package. The basic Questar computer, with a 2.4GHz Celeron processor, sells for about $562.
Dell spokesman Jeremy Bolen acknowledged that Questar is selling Dell PCs with Linux, but noted Dell's dealers are allowed to customize their machines. Although Dell mostly sells its PCs directly to customers, the Texas-based PC giant has an army of integrators and resellers that sell its machines. Often, these integrators are located overseas, where the direct sales model is not as broadly accepted.
Bolen added that this isn't the first time Dell PCs have come with Linux and that Dell isn't itself selling the machines, an inaccuracy that appeared in several news reports and seems to have come from language in Questar's press release.
Dell will honor the warranties on the hardware but will not provide service and support for any issues with the software. "It is not Dell factory installed," Bolen explained.
In 1999, Dell began to offer Linux as a customizable option on its consumer desktops. "Demand was low, so we discontinued offering it," Bolen said.
Although it dropped the consumer option, Dell made Linux available to corporate customers that signed on for factory configuration services. Dell has also continuously offered Linux on servers and workstations for a number of years. Dell's Linux partner is Red Hat Software; the PC maker has no relationship with Linspire, Bolen said.
Even with Dell's consumer Linux option gone, savvy buyers can still get a Linux-ready PC from the company. Dell's n-Series of Dimension and Optiplex desktops come with no preloaded operating system. (Because licensing agreements require that Dell ship at least a single operating system with its PCs, the company includes a disk of an open-source version of DOS in the box.)