Slashdot Mirror
Advertising Hits Arizona County Government Website
Combuchan writes "Just when you thought that pages on your local government's website were the last bastion of the advertisement-free WWW, that may soon change. Maricopa County (seen on slashdot before), home to 3.4 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area, has seen their GIS website "become an every day tool for realtors, developers, mortgage and title companies, appraisers, inspectors, attorneys and many other professionals associated with the real estate industry." As a result, they are now accepting bids for Web advertisements. As the county is one of the best-run in the nation, this could set quite the precedent."
Someone's got to pay. I don't see the big deal.
How much revenue would advertising bring to the site? Would it be worth the degraded image that advertising will bring? Do they really need that extra money?
This won't help lower taxes, it will raise them. You see someone (political connected) will 'have' to be hired to managed the ad program. And since the persons salery will come out of a different budget pool they will still make it look like the ad program is bringing in more than it is.
Ain't goverment budgeting wonderful? It makes Enron's accounting look legal by comparison.
A government earning money instead of forcing its citizens to supply it under threat of force.
What on Earth will we do?!
Love it...
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
As long as my Adblock still works they can advertise all they want.
Just get AdBlock for FireFox. After a week or so of tuning it you'll almost never see an ad again.
In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and is widely considered as a bad move.
Ad-Block
Yeah, right.
I'd much rather keep my money for myself to spend on the products the corporations make than contributing to the country I live in. What a horrible concept!
Unfortunately, now I won't have anyone to complain to when things start going wrong, because I'm not paying them.
I especially like this:
The same is true for his chain gangs which work six days a week contributing thousands of dollars of free labor to the community.
It's really very simple, let the public decide, and then demonstrate exactly how the revenue generated will be spent.
I would recommend that the itemized revenue be available online at any time.
no big deal.
Isn't advertisement at the government level a bit wrong, as it implies the government has a bias over one product/company?
As ads suck less, I am less inclined to block them.
I don't ever block Blogads. They're relevant almost 100% of the time.
Your standard punch the fucking monkey in the balls to win a free root canal and lobotomy combo performed by a spider from Hell banner ad is why ad blockers were invented, and their mere existence is enough to make those who purvey standard size ads unworthy of my attention, ever. In my view, nearly all standard sized advertisements (banners, skyscrapers, blah whatever) are trash and get treated like the trash they are.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Google Image Search??
It's an important question to ask. Is this really what we want our country to become? It seems that many people here don't really care. Let me assure you, in 50 years time, it will make a huge difference. It just might mean the difference between 98% of the population living in abject poverty, and 2% of the population with more money than they can dream of.
As always, ye who gives the county much needed revenue through advertising gets special treatment when you need a favor from the country should something go arwy. Same thing as cop cars with coporate advertising awhile back; if there was a protest at the local mcdonalds, and the cop cars adorn the corporate logo of mcdonalds, the cops would be there quicker to help out mcdonalds than, say, some local woman who just got raped.
I spose this is what we get for putting people in power who want government to make good business sense.
Candy-Coated Knowledge
I appreciate the creativity with which he approaches his line of work...
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Has anyone noticed that the site actually prevents non win98/nt/xp/me/ie4 from viewing it. It doesn't just not work it actually is prevented. It smells like discrimination to me. OF course /.ers won't think so because they acn change. But then /.ers are wrong and stupid.
Hint mod this down so I don't have excelent karma and get more mod points.
Why don't you guys have friends or journals?
Bit late now.
The IETF's myopic mantra of "everything must be free" has inevitably failed and in its place is a system where the best sites have to pay for the privilege of having a big audience.
A more practical economic model would have ensured that the consumer paid instead of the producer. Now having married these systems in haste we get to repent at leisure.
Let Maricopa County have advertisers on their real estate website. That will distract people from the fact that they're buying land in the desert
Eh.. That's why I installed the AdBlock extension for Firefox. problem solved..
What is your penile percentile?
to pay some people to make the damned maps accessible to Mozilla users.
Setting his threshold to 5, Sparky eliminated most of the trolls on /.
Are there any examples of government entities accepting ads in their publications before the Internet existed (or in print nowadays)? If so, this might not be so weird. If not, this is weird.
My first thought here is, what happens if the John Kerry for President campaign comes to these people and asks to buy ad space? Do they accept? Would it be ethical for them to accept? Would it be ethical for them to decline?
Isn't Arizona supposed to be one of the big contested states in the next election?
.. they NEED the ad revenue... seriously. It's wicked expensive/overpriced.
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Oh, and that should be "you're".
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
But where I come from, government providing preferential treatment to businesses or individuals in exchange for monetary sums is called "corruption".
So what's the moral of this story? I guess it's that politicians are irresponsible/afraid enough to listen to the anti-tax zealots to do the wrong thing.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
...it seems that few people are actually following any links before posting corporate conspiracy theories.
Now, I will admit that there's something slightly unsettling about a government giving official coverage to particular businesses. Though, as pointed out above, it may be better than taxes.
But in any event, these ads are specifically for their GIS (Geographic Information Systems) portal. That's relatively specialized stuff - people visiting it (property owners and developers) have a pretty high probability of needing some kind of service the businesses advertise there. If they don't see the ad there, they'll go to the Yellow Pages - so who do you want the money to go to, the local gov or the telecoms?
While this still strikes me as a little odd, it's not like Aunt Tilly is going to be checking a web site for the garbage pickup schedule and be confronted with flashing ambulance chaser ads or something.
"As the county is one of the best-run in the nation, this could set quite the precedent."
Sure does look like an ad to me. Do county-generated press releases, like the one glorifying the county supervisor, count as political advertising?
Or did the county supervisor have to pay to have that press release posted to the county web site?
If only this story hadn't leaked until they actually had advertisers. They'd probably make twice as much from the slashdot effect than from a years worth of normal use.
can't sleep. clowns will eat me.
Why not help me build such a thing? Anyone not in the USA gets an automatic invitation... last person took all of 19 minutes to get connected.
;-)
Oh, anyone from the US that's interested needs to drop by my undernet channel, chances are someone would invite you.
Arizona is finally contributing to something...geeze, just look at our sports teams.
As a computer, I am amused by the faith you have in technology.
My other job, my non-geek job, is that of firefighter. Its a volunteer "on call" community. I see the fights they have go through to replace a $50 coupling let alone a few thousand dollars of hose line.
As far as I'm concerned, if NIKE wanted to put their logo on a few hundred feed of high quality inch and three quarter line, I know a whole lot of departments that would be very very happy about it.
What to a small town fire department is a huge expense, is less than sending a sales guy to a meeting for corporate America. Think of the impact that could make.
-- ME.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
While I don't have a problem with the concept of government organizations selling advertising per se, I wonder what happens when the buyer has a political agenda. Will equal time/treatment/space/pricing be given to those that oppose the current administration's agenda, or will it become a propaganda machine to further cement their holding of power?
Loading...
I almost fell into that trap.
For those playing the home game, The Anonymous Coward is referring to comments from the pro-MS crowd about how open source software is a danger to the security of the nation -- contrary to accepted security doctrine.
FYI: Most firefighters are volunteer, "On Call" -- all but the biggest cities.
In most cases, we spend more time each year training as the cities keep cutting funds.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
(you turds)
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
My father in law lives in Phoenix. Since the income from the ads won't lower his property or sales taxes, he thinks it sucks.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
They put ads on city buses too.
www.google.com
And that is why I use them. No bloat.
"I am the Black Mage! I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down!" ~8BT
This site is best viewed when using Internet Explorer.
:)
Your using: Netscape5
Maybe they need the money for increased salaries of their web guys. Seriously, let's get some standards put in place. (and a spell checker
R.I.P.
Come on.
Everyone from Phoenix remebers that it goes:
"HoHo!HaHa!HeeHee!HaHa!"
Go ahead and call the 5th largest city in the country a disaster because its in the middle of the desert. You can even make fun of the Good 'Ol Boy sheriff.
But never under any circumstances disrespect the greatest TV show of all time!
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
Ads are good for covering costs, however they are also completely inappropriate for any service rendered by state authority. I'm not into US or Arizona or this particular county legislature, but if somebody would be able to promote itself on government owned web site, while somebody else couldn't, the whole thing could be seen as a governement endorsment of certain business. This in my eyes would be alost like Bush renting the White House lawn for McDonalds arches. He might be a monkey, but certain things event this monkey can't afford to do.
If the county wants to render public service, they can cover the costs with taxes or with fees. I don't expect it to be free beer, but I'm certainly disgusted by something that could be seen as a government endorsement of a particular business. If they want to put ads on it, they should spin off a privately owned company and be done with it.
How could I know the burgers were a health hazard? I've seen their advertisement on the gov. site, so I thought you checked them out... With all the lawsuits galore, this is just behind the corner.
Maybe it's just me, but government and advertising really don't mix together.
Anonymous Cowards Unite
It is hard for me to decide on whether to be for or against this.
I think I would totally agree that the Government should have advertisements to raise revenue IF AND ONLY IF there is a "non-advertisement" text only version for website that is available on a splash page, before any advertisements are viewed.
If you look at other government events, they often will partner with other commercial entities, heck even government literature is often sponsored by third parties who are partners. What is the logic behind making websites sponsor/partner free if we accept government sponsorship in other areas?
Frankly, if we have a choice not to view the advertisments (through a text only version for example) then I think I support advertisments.
Google ads actually work. They's why they are present on all smaller websites, blogs etc, simply because authors see a small renevue by using them. So get used to it..
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
If you think about it, anyone looking for info (say you're thinking of moving there) might appreciate some links to local real estate agents, plumbers, etc.
Obviously there's room for graft and abuse, but I'm from NJ so I guess we're used to that. (bada bing)
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Obviously, you don't know much about Phoenix history. Phoenix has been a rich place of agriculture with plenty of water to sustain multiple cultures throughout history.
The prehistoric Hohokam Indians first settled the area about 300 B.C. and dug a system of extensive irrigation canals for farming. This system included over 300 miles of major canals, which took its water from the Gila, Salt, San Pedro and Santa Cruz rivers. This water was then used to support thousands of acres of farm land. Much of Phoenix still uses the canals dug by the Hohokam.
The Phoenix area has sustained many cultures for many centuries. Phoenix has quite a few "renewable" sources of water and desert land is quite fertile and supports many crops including fruit, lettuce, cotton and hay.
Arizona produces enough cotton a year to provide at least one pair of jeans for everyone in America. Also, it is very likely that the Iceberg lettuce that you enjoy in your salad comes from Arizona. If you enjoy fruit salad, Arizona is one of the top producers of melons in the U.S.
Not to leave out the carnivores, 534.9 million pounds of beef comes from Arizona cattle per year. Getting hungry? Let's finish things of with dessert... if you have some cookies, you need milk... over 350,000 gallons are produced in AZ each year.
While it is true that Phoenix has outpaced its local resources and requires supplementary services to survive, it is far below that of much of Southern California. After all, what major metropolitan city can support itself agriculturally? I think that our neighbors in Las Vegas and Southern California are much worse off.
Just because Phoenix is in a desert, doesn't mean that it isn't naturally livable. Actually, your dire assessment of the area would lead me to conclude that the fact those of us who life there aren't dead yet, is proof enough that someone is doing something right.
Having lived in Georgia, I can say, from experience, that Maricopa County services are so much better than those of DeKalb County. The fact that my driver's license doesn't expire until I am 65 is reason enough to offer props. You have no idea how many hours I've spent waiting GA DOV lines to renew a license. In Maricopa, nearly every government service has an online component and information is only a click away: http://www.maricopa.gov/
Just my $0.02,
"Perhaps most amazingly, votaries of 'diversity' insist on absolute conformity." -- Tony Snow
known internationally for the degrading chain gangs and other harsh policies introduced by its infamous sheriff
'degrading chain gangs'?!? Boo-effing-hoo, their criminals they should work to pay off their debt to society.
As for the webcam lawsuit, that was in 2001 and I couldn't find anything about it's current status.
And there's this rebutting most of the rest.
"Gee, Bob, we really like the way you shut down those communist open source advocates from following your own mandates. And we're pleased as punch that you've faithfully upgraded your systems every year. But the icing on the cake is how you've required the users of your system to use an MS operating system to access public data. We'd really, really like to give you a reward for your loyalty to Redmond, but you being an elected official and all, it just might not look good. Now, if your website had some advertising we could purchase... Oh, and make sure there is a closed bidding process for the advertising, so no one actually sees how much we're kicking back to you..."
ArcGIS 9 can actually be called a real GIS again, 8 lacked a bunch of stuff. I'm not expecting to see a OSS contender any time soon, the pool of likely users is not comparable to something like OOffice or GIMP.
On the web-end OTOH, GIS is a commodity (i.e. WFS, WMS) and the OSS alternatives to things like ArcIMS are very capable, and in many instances much more stable/reliable.
I'm also interested to see where ArcSDE goes, it's chief advntage over things like Oracle Spatial is the tight integration with their other products.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
If they start to run out of water, then just send them up to live in the frozen tundra, eh.
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
As the county is one of the best-run in the nation,...
As a resident of Maricopa County for almost twenty years -- and one who has been waiting about that long for a proper public transit system -- I cry Bullshit. Phoenix has a wide variety of things going for it... but good government is not one of them...In principio creauit Linus Linucem.
This type of commercialization will not stop.
So you are basically saying that it will thrive, die, and be reborn from the ashes just to do it all over again? Perhaps they chose an appropriate name for their city...
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
The USPS says AOL is providing a service by letting people know there is an easy way to get on the internet (or some trivia like that). Note that we pay taxes to support the USPS and a place to hold AOL CD's.
Your example is slightly flawed, as it can make any money-raising activity sound like a great idea. Why not just have the mafia dropping off sacks of money every couple of weeks? That would keep them in hoses for a while...
Do governments do this type of thing often ? I mean looking for external money. They get money in taxes and from higher governments, but when they start requiring funds from the private sector should that raise questions?
I understand your point, but we already get donations from corporations. Its very very common. We also get donations from individuals. We have fundraisers. Remember, its a volunteer small town thing.
The only difference here is the logo. Could we increase donations by allowing the logo?
I don't agree that it would change our indebtedness at all -- in fact if anything it would publicise it.
I know a town with a single large employer -- its no secret that the bulk of that department's equipment is in some way linked to either the influence of the employer on the council or direct donation from the employer.
I'll skip the arguement of ophanage vs. warehouse for a minute and assume that's hyperbole because obviously its always lives before property. In fact, the procedural guides are pretty well known to state something like:
We risk a lot to save lives.
We risk a little to save property.
We risk nothing for a lost cause.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
Governments don't get donations from private entities (parties do, which, again, is horrible). Either way, there's a difference between donations and sponsorship. Sponsorship implies a two-way relationship above the advertising. It's a revenue stream, and as such is valuable to the recipient. Due to that, it's a massive conflict of interest, seeing as the government is responsible (supposedly) to the people and ONLY the people.
It seems harmless when you're talking about the local deli, but if it was a large multinational, they've effectively bought the government.
I guess I'm just dumb as a box of hammers here. I don't get the implied promise beyond the logo. That effectively becomes the quid pro quo.
Sure, Nike gets advertising, goodwill, and possibly makes more money as a result of the logo on the hoseline -- that's the payoff.
I don't see the conflict.
Same goes for the AZ website. You buy and ad, you get the ad. That's as far as I can see it going.
EXCEPT -- that if government ends up being driven by decisions that generate ad revenue -- THAT becomes an issue.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
Of course it doesn't always have to be like that, but the fact of an arrangement between the two entities means it could happen. And seeing as this is a government, the conflict of interests is very important. If they got sponsored by Nike, what would stop them giving Nike special treatment? Nothing. That's the problem.
Not with ads, but with parks, libraries, schools, etc. Companies make donations to cities all the time. Often they get their name on cornerstone or dedication. Small towns are more visible.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln