RIM's New Blackberry Ditches Thumboard

Eric Giguere writes "Research In Motion's newest BlackBerry, the 7100t, aka 'Charm,' has a more conventional phone form factor. It does this by ditching the thumb keyboard for an extended keypad with predictive text input. It also adds Bluetooth. The changes are mostly physical, the device is still running the same basic software -- existing Java apps should run with only minor changes. More details at the BlackBerry.com website." xRelisH supplies this link to a review of the device from MSNBC.

Comments

Predictive entry sounds better than others

[chrisbw]

I'm really used to the current BlackBerry keyboard, but I'm really interested in seeing how they implemented their predictive text entry. I read another article this morning about it, and apparently it "learns" as you go, and dynamically adjusts its recognition list. This is much better than what my Sony-Ericsson mobile can do with SMS messages.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[D43m0n_C0d3r]

How old is your SonyEricsson? All the modern ones let you add items to the dictionary, and the automatically adjust the frequency of words used in your SMS's.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[ElForesto]

I use the predictive text for SMS on my Ericsson phone, and I'm always amazed at how accurate it is. I think this is a good thing for the Blackberry to reduce the size and cost of their devices and drive penetration. (Fewer keys = fewer moving parts = less breakage)

With everything that new cell phones do, though, I'm curious as to how Blackberry devices differentiate themselves. (I've never used one myself.) Mine can send and receive e-mail messages and it was a cheapo T226. Granted, it can only handle short messages and the screen isn't that large, but I imagine that's enough for most people that want e-mail on the go.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[gl4ss]

that's not really new, that sounds just like the t9(predictive text input) I had in my benefon io.. hmm. 5 years ago? most phones have that ability to make the thing learn words(and different lists for different languages and so on).

regular thumb typing isn't THAT slow either when you're done enough of it.

(besides, if you have to switch between languages often of speak slang words and abbreviations a lot predictive text input blows, and yes checked my phone just right now and it can be taught words, but I don't use predictive input when I send sms's or browse web or irc with it)

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[name773]

how Blackberry devices differentiate themselves
i'm guessing they use the chain rule

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[Joe5678]

With everything that new cell phones do, though, I'm curious as to how Blackberry devices differentiate themselves. (I've never used one myself.) Mine can send and receive e-mail messages and it was a cheapo T226.

Blackberry devices are indented for corporate email environments. Using additional server software, they can sync with an exchange environment (at least email and calendar), among other corporate email solutions.

Good Technology does a much better job of synchronizing with exchange in my opinion, unfortunately their software doesn't work on many devices that have a full thumboard (just a treo 600 which is a really pitiful thumboard).

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[foo12]

I had some bad luck with predictive entry on my T68 once. I was living in the Philippines, sharing a house with one of my coworkers. Texted him something similar to the following:

Cant find jews. Jews on table by door/tv? Plz find jews, bring to work.

jews = 5397 = keys.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, my Nokia 3595 seems to like to call my friend Anne "Come"

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[nolife]

I have negative thoughts about removing the the keyboard. I always thought that was a huge plus. Remember, a majority of Blackberry users are the suits who could care less about the technology and just want to do nothing more then send and recieve their corporate email and have the ability to read attachments. Many of these people can not even understand the difference between "GSM", "gprs" and the "GPRS" signals and what they are for. Any learning from the predictive input better be stored on the sim card so when they get a new BB, they do not have to start all over again. Although there will be an interest in smaller, there will always be a nice sized crowd that would rather have a largeer screen and full KB also. I turned down a 7210 which has a color screen in favor of the monochrome 6710 because it had a larger screen.

Fewer keys = fewer moving parts = less breakage
I agree in theory but the only thing I've ever seen break on any of the BB's are the thumbwheel and the screen.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[Anonymous Coward]

I got to test one of these devices for a couple of weeks. I loved the original BlackBerry from day one but this 'new keyboard layout' just sucks; sending emails takes me longer with this keyboard. I tried to adopt the 'new technology' but in the end I didnt send any emails anymore. I used the device just for reading... and decided to swap back to the 'original BlackBerry'.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[Zeinfeld]

I have negative thoughts about removing the the keyboard. I always thought that was a huge plus. Remember, a majority of Blackberry users are the suits who could care less about the technology and just want to do nothing more then send and recieve their corporate email and have the ability to read attachments.

On the contrary, they care very much about the technology. They want a keyboard, a real keyboard, not a cell phone number pad.

I hate number pad schemes and I really, realy loathe anything that is 'predictive'. What that means is that I will not be able to predict the machine's idiotic guess about what I intended.

I have a RIM with the GOOD software on it. I am not going to be replacing it with this phone, no way. If I want a point and poke scheme then I will use my motorola cell phone. The RIM software is in any case sub-standard when it comes to exchange integration. With Good I get full synchronization of every folder, including calendar and contacts.

RIM and Palm both make the same mistake, they think it is acceptable to have to sync the handheld to the main system.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[Anonymous Coward]

Im using ond to tyre this reply.
Productive duck massaging is a lot quicker than the ole keyboard methodists

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[TrueKonrads]

I find it very annoying because most of messages i write aren't written in English. Thus all predictions are useless to me and have to turn it off. All of it would change if I just could plug in a new dictionary. I don't think extra non english customers ever hurt.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[Anonymous Coward]

Heels agree, predictive typing sucks.

Wait. ARG! I mean heels^H^H^H^H^Hhe^H^H geeks. Stupid predictive typing.

exist?

[BoldAC]

existing Java apps should run with only minor changes

It's freaking java. Why do all of these device makers continue to change small things that make all of the previous software libraries not work!

The platform is going to do better if there is more software available.

Re:exist?

[PhilippeT]

It's been java for a while... only the first vrs were C

Re:exist?

[lseltzer]

You're being too soft on Java. This is inherent in the dishonesty of Java marketing. Write once run anywhere my ass.

Re:exist?

[Kenja]

"It's freaking java. Why do all of these device makers continue to change small things that make all of the previous software libraries not work!"

Your right! All computers ever made and that ever will be made should have the same exact interface and hardware. None of this "diferent screen resolution" crap.

Re:exist?

[doodlelogic]

Why do all of these device makers continue to change small things that make all of the previous software libraries not work!

You could also ask:

Who are device makers' principal direct customers?

How do these customers, whether retailers or network providers, afford to sell their phones at below cost price?

Can an industry sustain the sale of loss leaders if it does not lock its customers into buying aftersales upgrades, additional features and ported programs?


My ten pound phone device thingy has been pricier than even the natural sceptic that I am likes to admit.

Re:exist?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot. The device runs the same bytecode. It's just that RIM has changed their libraries. They're not standard Java libraries.

Re:exist?

[austad]

That's BS. Most midlets developed for the Nokia phones will not run on Sony-ericsson phones, and vice versa. I've tried it.

Re:exist?

[Trejkaz]

Then they're not standard. Is it so hard to understand that when you use a class that isn't in the Profile you're supposed to be developing for, that it won't work on other devices?

Re:exist?

[ifdef]

I'm told the truth is "Write once, debug everywhere"

Re:exist?

[merlin_jim]

It's freaking java. Why do all of these device makers continue to change small things that make all of the previous software libraries not work!

Because there are several different versions of the J2ME. And up until MIDP 2.0 (the most recent version), they all sucked for certain things... no image transparency, no direct access to mutable images, that sort of thing... so some manufacturers wrote their own APIs (Nokia is a notable one, their UI API is very good)

Then on top of that there are optional extensions to J2ME, things like the Mobile Media API or the Wireless Messaging API, and those implementations, though standardized, tend to evolve over time.

Oh and just a BTW, I own a Nokia 3300 (now discontinued :( ) which runs MIDP 1.0, Connection-Limited-Device-Configuration (CLDC) 1.1, the Nokia UI API, MMAPI and WMAPI (I don't have the JSR numbers for those; the JSR number is like the version number of the API you use, for the optional J2ME extensions)

MIDP1.0 apps run anywhere. CLDC 1.1 apps run most anywhere. Nokia UI API apps only run on other Nokia phones. I've not seen another phone that implements the MMAPI, though the WMAPI is pretty common. The WMAPI basically is a way to access SMS and GPRS digital networks. The coolest part is you can start tossing around SMS messages like network packets through the WMAPI. If only AT&T would offer an unlimited texting option I could write some cool apps with that ;)

I thought the full...

[ObjectiveGiant]

... keyboard was what made these things so attractive. I txt on my cell phone quite frequently and I'm not crazy about T9 input. It's a bit of a pain to check behind yourself to make sure the correct word was selected. Obviously it's better than pounding one button 3x to get the right letter you want but isn't this a downgrade for this type of device?

Re:I thought the full...

[phaetonic]

Here here. I was seriously researching the blackberry because it's full keyboard is much better to respond to an e-mail than predictive text messages, which I use now on my cell phone. My interest is lost as I do not want to buy old technology.

Re:I thought the full...

[hattig]

Read the bloody article before passing judgement.

1. This doesn't use T9 input, it uses something more like T13 (two letters per key) which is clearly going to be way more accurate) and has a QWERTY layout not an ABC layout like most phones.

2. T9 is amazingly fast, and it would be faster if it actually auto-completed words (I mean, if you are guessing at the word already, then why not auto-complete the damn thing? Maybe it is just a problem with my old Nokia 6100) - T9 also meant the end of txt spk because it is quicker write the full word!

It might be a downgrade from having a full keyboard, but it is a phone first and foremost. Larger keys with good prediction is going to be better than tiny keys that will be mashed.

Re:I thought the full...

[Embedded2004]

You do realize they do continue to make those full keypad blackberry's still?

Re:I thought the full...

[ObjectiveGiant]

I did "read the bloody article" and I'm not passing any judgement.

Response to 1:
I didn't say it uses T9.(Although it might look like that was my intention.) I was trying to relate my experience with a similar system to what the article discussed. My experience with T9 have been less than steller but I use it on a device that is a phone with text messaging functionality... Not something that is meant to be used for email and the like.

Response to 2:
I agree 100% that auto-complete would be a 100% improvement in T9 mode. I hope there are some cell phone manufacturers listening.

I don't agree that blackberry devices are meant to be a phone first and foremost. I believe that the people buying these things are buying them for reasons other voice comm. Obviously people want a phone that works but there are a 1000 other products out there that offer similar (if not slightly handicapped) functionality at a highly discounted price.

I think it boils down to designers (and consumers) wanting a sexier device with better ergonomics. I think the device looks awesome but I would pass over it for the Nokia 9300 any day. Why? Because it fits the familiar phone form factor (if not a bit bulky) and its design caters to those are really serious about texting applications on a mobile device. I learned how to type with one letter per key and that's what I'm used to. (Not necessarily with my thumbs but you get the point.)

Too bad I'll probably have to pay twice as much for the Nokia...

Re:I thought the full...

[hattig]

Yeah, the Nokia looks like it is using the classic Psion 5 layout, which in my opinion was the single most awesome portable computer / PDA device ever made (especially considering that was so long ago) and it had a great keyboard. Even the cut-down Revo model simply rocked.

Please, someone, make a device that merges a decent phone with the Psion layout AND keyboard (yes, the Nokia communicators do mimik the Psion layout in a non-stylish way, but not the keyboard).

The biggest problem I have with any type of predictive system is: "I'll meet you at 7.30" which always comes out "Ill meet you at " ... before you have to switch modes using the # key to type in numbers.

Re:I thought the full...

[JeffTL]

I've never liked using a pad designed for TouchTone signaling to enter text. QWERTY may have been designed for typewriters but at least it was designed for entering text, not generating DTMF sounds for the phone company. The TouchTone keypad's design was made for telephone dialing and it's enough of a painful stretch to use it for menu systems -- if you are cursed with a Trimline. cellular with no headset attached, or oher keypad-on-the-cheek phone you have to take it away from your ear to push the next button, but that's more a failure of the design of many telephones than any problem with the keypad design or with DTMF. As for text entry, it's slow, aggravating, and painful; I would be more apt to pay a dime for an SMS if it were easier to enter -- so I'd pretty much need a keyboard-equipped Blackberry or Treo to be able to take up that expensive habit.

Re:I thought the full...

[Ian_Bailey]

I totally missed this at first, but notice that this new product only has 2 characters per button, rather than the cell-phone standard 3. This means that any given word you type will have a great deal fewer simmilar words to confuse the system.

For instance, any given 5 letter word entered using predictative text-entries on a cell phone could be anything among 3^5 = 243 possibilities, whereas this unit will have a mere 2^5 = 32 possibilities.

Of course, this assumes that every combination is equally likely to be a word. However it's easy to see that any given word will have fewer possibilities on the RIM device.

Whether this is enough to make is usable is difficult to say, but I don't think it's going to be nearly as difficult as current cell-phone predicative text messages.

Re:I thought the full...

[merlin_jim]

The new board is a hybrid, 21 keys.

Basically each key represents two characters, in a qwerty-style arrangement, with the middle block of keys doing double duty for number entry. Because each key represents a diad, not a triad, of possible entries, I imagine the predictive text entry is much closer to type-and-forget than T9.

So it's somewhere between a thumbboard and a typical cell phone. If my phone didn't have a full thumbboard I'd probably be interested in seeing how this performs...

Predictive text

[scowling]

I'd be very surprised if the predictive text system works as well as the reviewer appears to indicate, unless the only words you use are common ones (or if you're willing to use up virtually all of your storage on your custom dictionary entries).

Every predictive text system I've used in the past has been slower (due to dictionary-adding, backspacing, and so on) than it would have been by using more 'traditional' input methods like thumb-texting.

Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it.

Re:Predictive text

[yaroslavvb]

An unrelated question I was pondering -- do any thumb-texting predictive text devices use predictive method more advanced than Markov chain? (essentially just looking at list of words that start with already typed prefix) That's how it seems to work on all the cell phones I tried. There's enough research out there to make a more advanced system. For instance, a word level Markov chain that offer words that are likely to follow first. Or an approach that would allow better generalization, such as decision tree predictor.

Re:Predictive text

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to disagree. My Samsung's phone had excellent predictive text. My new Motorola is pretty weak though, I think it depends alot on the quality of the predictive text software. As for using common words... I never really saw my blackberry as a full email client... mostly just for getting notifications, answering simple yes/no questions and hearing about "emergencies." Point being is that I rarely sent any long detailed technical emails- most of them used only common words.

Re:Predictive text

[Specter]

Prepare to be surprised. I laid hands on a pre-production model the other day and because there are only 2 letters per key the predictive text is pretty darn good. Walt Mossberg over at WSJ says that typing URLs and email addresses can be hard and I agree the predictive text doesn't help you much there, but for the majority of the typing you'd do (responding to emails, posting on slashdot) it's pretty darn good. It's leaps and bounds better than T9.

Re:Predictive text

[Trejkaz]

That's why there is a button which you usually only have to press once or twice to switch between predictive text and manual entry. That way you can use the faster system depending on what word you're entering.

Re:Predictive text

[infiniti99]

do any thumb-texting predictive text devices use predictive method more advanced than Markov chain? (essentially just looking at list of words that start with already typed prefix) That's how it seems to work on all the cell phones I tried. There's enough research out there to make a more advanced system. For instance, a word level Markov chain that offer words that are likely to follow first. Or an approach that would allow better generalization, such as decision tree predictor.

Hmm, I hadn't considered there might have been better algorithms. I could have used one back in the day. :)

A little story: In 1999, I had set up an email server so that I could send SMS messages to it (via my phone provider's email gateway) to perform computer commands. One of its features was the ability to sign onto ICQ and send messages. It worked well, despite the fact that typing on a phone was cumbersome. Later that month, I started hearing about T9 phones, but unfortunately there was no such phone available in the USA yet. I really wanted to have predictive text, and so I decided to implement a similar algorithm in my SMS processing program. What was funny and stupid is that by doing the dictionary parsing on the server, not only was I unable to actually see what I was typing on the phone, but I couldn't do any candidate selection! :) It worked by having me type in a series of numbers (I would put the phone in numeric mode), and then the server would convert that into words, putting multiple candidates in parenthesis. It was the only way I could think of doing it.

The result is that a message from my phone might look like this:
"(hey, hex) (are, ape) you going to (class, clasp) today?"

Almost like mad libs! Ahh, the good old days...

Re:Predictive text

[swb]

Someone in another thread said it learns, so perhaps it uses a simple method like a Markov chain and then re-sorts the list based on words you use, and offers suggestions by presenting you with the most common Markov matches first.

Re:Predictive text

[Yer Mom]

Right. Currently (Nokia 7650) it goes like this:

Me: 2337
Phone: adds
Me: +
Phone: beer

Every single time. I don't think I've ever used the word "adds" in an SMS. But quite a lot of them are beer-related. So why can't the damn phone learn?

Re:Predictive text

[merlin_jim]

It starts out with 35,000 words. Sure you're going to use some words that aren't in the list, especially proper names and whatnot... but most people only use about 10,000 words in their everyday speech. The chances that large parts of your vocabulary will be absent are pretty small...

Couple that with the fact that this predictive text system is based on diads, not triads, of letters and I think you'll find it's pretty performant. Of course I'm just speculating here, I haven't tried it yet...

You're not using the right words

[Anonymous Coward]

Or should I say "ur ! usn rite wrds"

Whoops

[darth_MALL]

I accidentally just dropped my BB 6280 and it broke into 12 peices! Whatever will I do? Hey boss! I have an idea for a replacement!

The keyboard was their main feature

[stripmarkup]

So far, the Blackberry is the only mobile device that I've found useful for web browsing and emailing. The qwerty keyboard is the main reason, it's much better than, say, the one in the Treo 600. The new Blackberry looks like any other cellphone. I know that I'll never be able to compose email or search Google nearly as fast with the predictive input, no matter how good it might be.

Re:The keyboard was their main feature

[Quasar1999]

And as an added fact... I remember when I worked at RIM, Mike L. (the CEO) specifically told all of us workers that the blackberry will never be an all in one device. It will not be a phone, an mp3 player or a remote control. It will be a 2 way pager that does email, that's it, that's all.

Boy oh boy was he bad at predicting what the market demanded... I'm kinda happy I'm no longer there... their idealistic vision were trampled right around the time the bubble burst... now they no longer create innovative products, just mash things together, and have patent wars to try and make a profit every quarter... what a shame...

Re:The keyboard was their main feature

[dennbruce]

I'm willing to give the new BB a try. I'm used to my current version, but it's a bit clumsy as a phone. GREAT for email and web browsing however! It's such a breeze to use the QWERTY keyboard

Re:The keyboard was their main feature

[Digital11]

Then you should try the Danger Hiptop. Blackberry's email interface is better (because it handles folders, etc in a better way) but everything else about the hiptop SMOKES the Blackberry.

And on the subject of predictive text input. Screw that, I can type 50+ WPM EASILY on my Hiptop.

And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Jakhel]

"Boo hoo, why can't I have a phone that just makes calls. I have 20 other devices that I carry on my batman like utility belt that do each_function_separately."

I personally am happy to see a phone like this hit the states. When the new ericsson phones release we'll really see something interesting.

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[dasmegabyte]

Some of us don't feel the need to check our email whilst walking, or listen to mp3s on a phone. Some of us believe in that tireless old adage "The right tool for the right job." Still others of us don't have a lot of devices to carry...for me it's keys, ipod, wallet, phone stays in the car or on the desk or in my jacket pocket. I don't carry a palmtop because the input methods are invariably shite, don't carry a camera unless I intend to take pictures of things (and let's face it, camera phones take shitty pictures anyway, why waste the money) and I don't need retarded games or ringtones.

Am I anti-convergence? Fuck no, it's good to see people creating shitty devices that do too much, because it makes them appreciate the simple things in life. Like a phone that's just a phone, or a notebook that doesn't erase everything you're doing if your brother text messages you. Convergent devices are good things, they're just nothing I would ever want to own. I like to be able to USE the things I own.

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Trejkaz]

I would be happier with Ericsson's new phones if any of them looked like being the successor to the P900. Right now I have higher hopes for the Motorola A780, which should be a favourite amongst all geeks really. ;-)

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Anonymous Coward]

Um... shut up then?

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Ira Sponsible]

Already too much stuff on my belt. I have the PDA-phone-MP3player, Leatherman Wave, Mini-Mag flashlight, zippo ligher, and a Keychain. If only SOMEHOW I could get all these other devices to merge into one SUPER-ULTIMATE-ALL-PURPOSE TOOL of MAXIMUM ABILITY....

One gizmo to rule them all, maybe?

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Yer Mom]

That sounds like a job for the P910 :)

I might get one, if their firmware's better than Nokia's. I've just found out that the last update to my 7650 fixed some bugs I was having, but broke voicemail notification, so people have been leaving me messages for months and I've not even known the things were there. If I don't get a free update, despite the phone being out of warranty, Nokia can go piss up a rope in the future. (Hey, it was in warranty when they broke this advertised feature with a shoddy, improperly-tested update - damn right they should pay out to fix it!)

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Trejkaz]

Ooooo... yep, as much as I dislike Symbian, that P910 looks pretty bloody cool. :-)

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Thomas Miconi]

Boo hoo, why can't I have a phone that just makes calls. I have 20 other devices that I carry on my batman like utility belt that do each_function_separately.

The problem is that these devices often look more practical than they are IRL. I own a (cheap, ebay-acquired) Treo. The small keyboard looks really good until you actually try it. On the bonus side, with that thumb training, I'll probably be able to to pull-ups with my fingers by the end of the month...

Another thing is that these devices are often marketed as what they aren't: ultra-portable computers, allowing you to be productive (as in desktop-like productive) on the go. No way.

To me the ideal device would be an HP 320lx with an upgradable (read: open source) OS and (potential) 802.11b capacity. That, and my old, small, perfect-shaped Motorola v60 as a phone. That's two devices, each of which does what it does near-perfectly. Small loss of pocket real estate, huge gain in efficiency and satisfaction !

Why on earth they ditched the palmtop computers and went for stylus input or thumb keyboard is beyond me. Those machines might be the only possible competition for the oh-so-cute-and-practical but oh-so-damn-pricey 12.1" iBooks that my co-workers keep waving under my nose (grrr). With a palmtop solution, you loose some functionality, but you gain other features (even the amazing portability of small iBooks can't compete with something you can put in the pocket of your jacket - oh, and 8 hours battery life with standard alkaline batteries as a bonus) and you divide the price by 3 (not to mention 2nd hand market!)

Hell, see the prices of 320lx on ebay, how much would it cost to make a new, slightly improved 320lx ? If anyone can provide information about the closest thing there is to a monochrome (battery life !) handheld device that can be extended with 802.11b and an open OS, I'd be very grateful.

</rant>

Thomas

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Quattro Vezina]

I personally am happy to see a phone like this hit the states.

The only problem with combination phone/PDA devices is that it can never be the right size. A phone is supposed to be small and compact. A PDA is supposed to have a larger screen so you can actually do stuff on it. If you combine the devices into one, it's never going to be adequately sized.

OTOH, that's the only combination I dislike. Combine other things, sure. Thanks to my cellphone, I save money not buying a watch. If I had the money to buy that Zaurus I've been drooling over, I'd use it as a combination PDA/music player/whatever else I can think of.

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[merlin_jim]

Some of us don't feel the need to ... or listen to mp3s on a phone

And some of us are digital DJs that find it quite convenient to be able to carry a portfolio of our work with us, inside our cell phone, a device we would be carrying around anyways. I'm all with you when it comes to detesting unnecessary bloat in personal devices, but just because it isn't useful to you doesn't mean it's bloated and unworthy of existance...

Predictive Text =/= T9

[ARRRLovin]

From the looks of the 20 key keypad, it looks like it's going to use a form of predictive text that would help the "QWERTY" users more than the traditional T9 SMS user. I hope they hit the T-Mo stores soon so I can take it for a test drive.

Nokia 9300

[mentalflossboy]

Does anyone else think the Nokia 9300 pictured in the article looks sexier?

Re:Nokia 9300

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks larger...

I don't think either of them look very "sexy". Better than most of Nokia's phones, but there are definitely better looking ones out there.

Re:Nokia 9300

[Anonymous Coward]

more here

The price

[halo1982]

At $199 I would buy this phone in a second. With the current Blackberries being $349+ and being kind of awkward to dial out/talk on, this is exactly what I want. And Bluetooth is an added bonus.

Re:The price

[dasmegabyte]

Sure. And at $13,000 I'd buy a BMW M3 in a second. But that's not what they cost.

Am I the only one who's sick of the "I'd buy it if it were half the price / a quarter of the price / a penny per megabyte" posts? God, shit's not cheap, man -- development, design and promotion cost money, and this attitude of not-paying-a-lot-for-that-muffler is why so many companies outsource all their development and manufacturing overseas.

Get it through your thick skulls, people. Shit isn't cheap to design or to produce. It shouldn't be cheap to buy. You do not need every new gadget that comes out. This attitude is only resulting in shoddy merchandise and people like me being unable to pay $300 for a sturdy, American made cell phone with a sensitive antenna and no useless features like email or cameras or ringtones that sound like Kiss songs. If people would stop griping about price and start saving up for what they really want, we'd all have better tech and maybe even better jobs.

Re:The price

[generic-man]

Sorry to interrupt your rant, but the new Blackberry really does cost $199.

If you had bothered to read the article before cursing up a storm, you could have seen the sentences: "Now, the best part of the equation. T-Mobile, the only cellular carrier to sell the 7100t, has priced the device at a mind-boggling $199."

Re:The price

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you are a good American Consumer.

You actually want to get underfeatured, overpriced goods because they are made in America!

Amazing.

I mean, not only do I have a friend who has gone to an American university complain that the first year courses are more like GCSE standard (UK 15/16 year old) rather than carrying on after A-levels (17/18 year old qualifications, she was expecting that university would start at 19 year old standard, not start 3 years behind where she is!), but now this. The logical conclusion is that instead of /teaching/ you in high school, you are brainwashed to be a good consumer that will never complain and will vote pro-corporatist all the time.

Re:The price

[aardvarkjoe]

The logical conclusion is that instead of /teaching/ you in high school, you are brainwashed to be a good consumer that will never complain and will vote pro-corporatist all the time.

However, apparently logic isn't a strong point in the school curriculum in your country.

Re:The price

[Anonymous Coward]

If it'll make you feel better, I'll sell you a Blackberry 7100t for $1000.

This just in...

[Anonymous Coward]

In related news, the ILF (International Leperachaun Foundation) filed suit over the anme of the new Blackberry device.

"They're always after me lucky charms!" decried Shamus O'Typalot.

Thum?

[mentalflossboy]

*cough cough* To 'b' or not to 'b,' there is no question.

Utter genius.

[Moofie]

They have gotten rid of the second-most-odious text input method (a thumb keyboard) and gone straight to the most odious.

Re:Utter genius.

[oGMo]

They have gotten rid of the second-most-odious text input method (a thumb keyboard) and gone straight to the most odious.

There are far worse methods of input than a thumb keyboard... like graffiti-style handwriting recognition. Or voice recognition. Or a typical numeric cellphone keypad (which this is not).

This looks like a full keyboard with 1:1 key:letter, but it does predictive input. Not a step up, but not as bad as it could be.

Re:Utter genius.

[Moofie]

I (me this one) love Graffiti. My speed and accuracy are FAR higher than with anything that's operated by my thumbs.

It's why I don't have a Treo, and I can't figure out the appeal of the Blackberry.

Why get a Charm when an Ace is around the corner?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a nice stab, but a keypad will never replace a keyboard.

Treo 650 (Ace) will be out within 45 days, a much anticpated follow-up to the Treo 600.

Ask any BB user or Treo user what they think, an they will tell you the keyboard is the ticket, esp. for short messages where you might not type the full word or use a lot of shorthand.

Also, not touchscreen is a real killer from a usability standpoint.

Get back to work...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is your boss. I have decided to give you a notepad as a replacement. No, that's not a new electronic device. A paper notebook. We figure in the future this device would be less likely to break when dropped.

I hate my Blackberry

[DevilM]

I hate my Blackberry for the following reasons:

• Talking on it without the earpiece sucks
• The natural place where you hold the device is also the button to end a call
• It is too easy to answer a call and put the person on hold
• If I am using any PDA functionality and a call comes in my work is lost
• Sometimes people can't hear me when I answer the phone
• Sometimes the keyboard lock unlocks without my input
• Deleting email on the Blackberry doesn't delete it in my mailbox
• It has trouble telling the difference between the same number with and without a 1 (long distance)
• It thinks all 10 digit calls nees a 1
• The keypad letters are wrong for the number pad, which makes it highly annoying to dial a number by name (1-800-get-a-clue)
• When adding a number to the addressbook it assumes the number is a work number

Give me time, I will think of more.

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[The Analog Kid]

The natural place where you hold the device is also the button to end a call

Yeah, that has to be my biggest bane with it, I still use my Motorola to make phone calls, you'd think though that someone would have mentioned it to them, or they could have figured it out themselves with field testing it.

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[Net0ps]

I'm not completely sold on mine either, but some quick off-the-cuff responses to (some of) your complaints:

# Talking on it without the earpiece sucks
Agreed. A good earpiece makes a big difference with it.

# The natural place where you hold the device is also the button to end a call
True, although you have to hold that button down in order to end the call. I've found a loose grip and/or moving my thumb slightly to grab the housing rather than the button works fine for me, but obviously YM she is much V.

# It is too easy to answer a call and put the person on hold
True. If I have one complaint, it's the "push-to-select" function for the wheel, which invariably causes me to roll one option up or down while pushing in.

# If I am using any PDA functionality and a call comes in my work is lost
Have you tried Alt-Esc to switch functions? Frequently it looks like it lost stuff when in fact it has just switched applications. Alt-Esc works like Alt-Tab, but not so convenient (you then have to hold Esc while scrolling the wheel with your thumb-tip to select another application to open--very annoying).

# Sometimes the keyboard lock unlocks without my input
Setting a password on the device, as annoying as it can be sometimes (employer requires it) solved this--it now won't unlock without the password, which is pretty difficult to enter by random chance.

# Deleting email on the Blackberry doesn't delete it in my mailbox
This is, I think, just a sync setting: change the sync setting on your desktop manager (if you're using a BES) and deletions on one will be reflected on the other, or so I understand. For me, this is a feature--takes me five seconds to delete stuff that I've blown off the BB, and that means when I read it on the BB and don't need it, I can delete it without worry.

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[mildness]

How about...

• I get work email when I am not at work

I told my PHB "No way man".

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[BWindle]

In reguard to the deleting email, the option you are looking for is called Wireless Reconcile. I belive once you turn that on, deleting email on your Blackberry will delete it from your computer's mailbox.

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[camusflage]

Talking on it without the earpiece sucks

Fair enough.. It's like talking into a pop-tart.

Sometimes the keyboard lock unlocks without my input

Try a password. This will guarantee it won't unlock itself. "lock on holstering" is also your friend as well.

Deleting email on the Blackberry doesn't delete it in my mailbox

wireless sync, wireless reconcile, delete on handheld and mailbox. This will automatically delete items in both places when deleted in either.

It thinks all 10 digit calls nees a 1

I dial with only ten digits all the time.

The keypad letters are wrong for the number pad, which makes it highly annoying to dial a number by name (1-800-get-a-clue)

Use the crescent/number key and hit the letter. Not only will it send the appropriate tone, but it will display the letter on the screen.

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[Anonymous Coward]

Alt-Esc works like Alt-Tab, but not so convenient (you then have to hold Esc while scrolling the wheel with your thumb-tip to select another application to open--very annoying).

You can also switch by holding down alt, and clicking esc multiple times.

More reviews

[zaxios]

PC Mag and Forbes have reviews and InfoSync has a detailed news article. Forbes provides some perspective to the objective of integrating personal organizer with phone. PC Mag reads a bit like a spec list. I found the MSNBC review provided already more interesting, but you can look for yourself.

More peripherals...

[Not_Wiggins]

Fun... now I have another thing to recharge/worry-about-battery life and lose!

And like all Blackberry devices...

[EtherAlchemist]

...it's butt ugly. My thumbs are killing me just looking at that, um, key pad thing.

Re:And like all Blackberry devices...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is actually this first one I think is good looking...

It's not a replacement

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an addition to the Blackberry line - there wil always be heavy txtrs who want a full thumbboard, but this device will appeal to a huge market segment who didn't want that big blue/black thing sagging in their pocket.
Plus, there's finally a BB with a bright screen, alerts you can actually hear, and downloadable tones that don't resemble the sound output of a Commodore PET.

Cool!Now there are no competitors for the sidekick

[netsavior]

thumb keyboard is what makes the blackberry worth a damn... well at least now Danger does not have to worry about competition for the sidekick 2 having used predictive crap hole 1-9 keyboards, the blackberry and the sidekick I would have to say they rank as first by far Sidekick second Blackberry and a distant third num-pad I love de-innovation

BlackBerry vs. phone and PDA

[zaxios]

I regret reposting so soon, but I've been reading the thread and I have to ask, Does BlackBerry succeed in actually being a good phone or a good PDA? MSNBC says it has "four hours talk time and eight hours standby". With battery life like that, how can this be a useful phone? If BlackBerry has adopted a "more conventional phone form factor", what's it like to use as a PDA? Really, does integrating phone and PDA really provide a better and more convenient experience or does it just implement the worst of both worlds - a smaller screen than a straight PDA and worst battery life than a non-smart phone? Wouldn't it just be better to buy two separate devices?

Re:BlackBerry vs. phone and PDA

[Anonymous Coward]

eight days. not hours.

Re:BlackBerry vs. phone and PDA

[Anonymous Coward]

My Dad runs his own business and he uses two devices. He's got his cell phone for calls and his Blackberry for e-mail and web browsing. It is that simple. He absolutely loves his Blackberry, though. It is all part of his dream to run his business from the golf course.

Re:BlackBerry vs. phone and PDA

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using a Sony/Ericsson P800 for a year and a half and I love the integration of phone and PDA. The battery life is very good (2 - 3 days) if you take care to turn off applications, especially camera and bluetooth heavy ones, when you are not using them. The syncing with Mac Calendar and Phonebook is excellent and I imagine it's the same with Windows. Text entry is nowhere near as nice as with SideKick or BlackBerry which I had for a month each. But the pen-based character recognition is better than Palm graffiti. I must admit: only a blackberry or SideKick is any good for true on the road handheld email, IMHO.

Re:BlackBerry vs. phone and PDA

[Anonymous Coward]

I facilitate our firms BB program. We have the full BB server package with the Exchange connector. Very few people actually get a phone package with the device. Without a "phone package", the phone will still work and a number is assigned but I believe it is a flat $.20/minute (depends on your contract I guess). There is also an option to disable the phone function entirely but I don't think anyone has got that option. I personally have used almost every model T-Mobile offers at one time or another. I was impressed with the phone quality of all of them with the exception of the 5810 (no longer made) which you had to have a headset as it has no built in speaker or microphone. My point is people are not using the device to replace a cell phone. For use in the corporate environment, nothing comes close to the email functionality that a BB provides.

Re:BlackBerry vs. phone and PDA

[Trejkaz]

I agree with you completely about the screen size. I would far rather have a GSM card in a PDA, than PIM software built into a phone. That being said, a GSM card in a PDA makes for a phone which is a bit awkward to hold. What I really want is a phone with nothing but a phone, plus Bluetooth and GPS. :-)

Re:BlackBerry vs. phone and PDA

[Ira Sponsible]

The best PDA-phone combo I've used so far is the Samsung i500. It's about the size of an old motorola timeport flip phone, has a normal phone keypad, graffiti pad on the lower portion of the flip and a reasonably large bright touchscreen on the upper flip, palm 4.1 OS (for which there is a CRAPLOAD of free/cheap high quality apps). No querty keyboard which helps to reduce the width and simplify the UI (you don't need it with graffiti anyway - I'm a long-time palm user so YMMV). It's very comfortable and intuitive as a phone, and very sharp as a PDA. Only real downside to this phone is no SD slot :-(

Re:Poll Troll Toll

[Anonymous Coward]

Missing option: Hershel Schnitzel

qwerty keyboard a myth?

[mcguyver]

I'm looking at the pictures of the new blackberry and the qwerty keyboard looks like it uses 14 keys to represent chars A-Z. Is this misrepsentation by calling it a qwerty keyboard? Sure the keys are in order like a normal keyboard but without the individual keys, I think this blackberry loses its most signficant appealing feature, a keyboard.

This press release brought to you by...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Slashdot. Your source for press-releases.

Problem with predictive texting

[m0RpHeus]

Is when the products are used on countries where the language is not supported by the device. This is my only frustration with predictive texting on my Sony Ericsson phone. I assume the same would be true with this new Blackberry. Yes, english is just fine, but when I need to text using our native language (that is not supported) predictive texting is useless. Also, predictive text is kind of useless if you're texting a lot of techinical jargons.

Tmobile URL -

[Blimbo]

http://www.getmoreblackberry.com/

From the web site
"Register now and you will be one of the first to know when the new BlackBerry 7100t is available for sale. Plus you'll be entered for a chance to win a Bluetooth wireless headset, the ultimate accessory for your new phone."

One word... Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Blackberry sucks. We hate them at work. We are replacing them with GoodLink ( http://www.good.com/ ) which is simply wonderful.

Re:Cool!Now there are no competitors for the sidek

[Anonymous Coward]

This is aimed at people that want a cell phone and email second.

They still make newer blackberries with keypads. Just think of this as there second product line.

but...

[bani]

...can it run linux?

Java apps should run with only minor changes

[dspyder]

Wasn't Java promised as a "write once, run everywhere".... it always cracks me up when I'm asked to choose which platform to donwload my Java app for.... um, Java?

--D

Re:Java apps should run with only minor changes

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot. They're saying that Java applications that target the Blackberry need minor modifications because RIM has changed their libraries.

Hello world applications will obviously run unmodified, but applications that take advantage of features specific to the Blackberry might need minor modifications.

Re:Java apps should run with only minor changes

[recharged95]

I think Java VM's embedded on core devices like phones maybe a good thing for Java in serving the 'write once, run many' creedo since the problem with servers/desktops was due to poor performance a la file i/o and memory management. It was just too slow for nice big/rich UI apps--phones will be similar in performance for awhile since power requirements, heat, size+form factors, and screen sizes hinder Moore's law somewhat IMO.

Re:Java apps should run with only minor changes

[CarrionBird]

You're an idiot. It doesn't matter. The whole point was supposed to be portability, yet you still have to rewrite for every platform. Does it matter whose fault that is? No.

Stupid blackberry web support

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm currently developing a web application that must work on blackberries, and I am coming to abhor them. They don't render anything except the most basic html (that is, the few blackberries that even have a browser). The browser support is absolutely atrocious. Form filling is insane, and scrolling to the next page makes no sense at all.

Re:Stupid blackberry web support

[meravelha]

I agree, but if anyone is into writing open-source java modules for BB, lets get together!

Re:Cool!Now there are no competitors for the sidek

[cft_128]

RTFA, it doesn't use T9, it has 20 keys. Not what you are expecting. I have used a beta Sidekick II, it is pretty nice, a little cartoony though.

Predictive Text Better then Expected

[Embedded2004]

I had the opportunity to test one of these out, what surprised me was how good the predictive text actually was. I am going to be ditching my current BB for one of these as soon as I can manage.

This is the first one I think that I actually like the look for, I just hope with that nice LCD there is some good games for it.

this is exactly why...

[bani]

...java failed miserably.

Re:this is exactly why...

[narcc]

...java failed miserably.

I must have missed that part. Have you been kind enough to inform Sun of this "fact"?

Re:this is exactly why...

[SuiteSisterMary]

There are all sorts of things that 'fail miserably' but still take years or decades to actually grind to a screeching, smoking halt.

This is awful for a simple reason.

[piecewise]

One of the reasons Blackberries have become so popular is because of their professional look. Lawyers, politicians, consultants, everyone else in DC and in other parts of the country love the Blackberry. And we love keeping it on our belts as a status symbol.

This new Blackberry looks like a toy and like every other phone. There's nothing so appealing about it. I think RIM has really given up that professional tone and they'll be upsetting quite a few customers.

Re:This is awful for a simple reason.

[DAldredge]

Why? Is the one currently on your belt going to go puff and disappear in a puff of red smoke?

Re:This is awful for a simple reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh god they do NOT look professional.

Let me tell you something: I worked for RIM back when they were designing the typical blackberry (the palm-pilot ripoff with a keyboard that everyone knows).

At that time they made pagers--they were SOLD as pagers and they acted like pagers, but only two-way. They were good devices. Then, the "new" design came along and they streeeetched the pager out with a big screen. It looked like shit, and I told them so (not that they listened).

I have no idea why this particular model became a boardroom status symbol. The thumbwheel navigation is terrible on such a device..it made sense for the pager, but not for a full palm ripoff. And it looks STUPID. The new design at least LOOKS slick.

Re:Cool!Now there are no competitors for the sidek

[netsavior]

20 keys for 26 letters plus symbols oh ok you are right 6 more keys makes a huge diffrernce...

I got a better idea

[Gentlewhisper]

"I'm curious as to how Blackberry devices differentiate themselves"

Yeah, they look quite ordinary too.

In fact, I think they should rename themselves "RedCherry", and come up with a revolutionary user interface that comprises only of 2 red knobs......

They can even patent it and sue all the women for infringing on their IP!

Re:Cool!Now there are no competitors for the sidek

[cft_128]

Have you tried it? And not to be an ass, but 20 - 12 is 8, not 6. I would also have to say that having 67% more keys probably makes a large difference.

missing option

[austad]

The thing that I find sorely missing from every "business-class" phone is the ability to use 2 SIM's in it at once. Nearly everyone has a personal phone, and nearly every company provides a phone for their employees. Who wants to carry around 2 phones? Not me. I find myself forwarding the company phone to my personal one and eating the cost of the minutes.

If it won't fit in my pocket, it's not going with me. I don't want a bat belt full of crap.

I've seen SIM adapters that allow you to put 2 SIM's in the phone, but it asks you on power-up which one you want to use. I want to be able to use both of them at once. A 2-line GSM phone. That would be killer.

Different, not worse

[doodlelogic]

I mean, not only do I have a friend who has gone to an American university complain that the first year courses are more like GCSE standard (UK 15/16 year old) rather than carrying on after A-levels (17/18 year old qualifications, she was expecting that university would start at 19 year old standard, not start 3 years behind where she is!), but now this. The logical conclusion is that instead of /teaching/ you in high school, you are brainwashed to be a good consumer that will never complain and will vote pro-corporatist all the time.

And I have friends in France, Germany and Scotland that point out that they learn much more, and earlier than we do in England. (The A level is an English/Welsh qualification, not a UK one). Baccalaureate systems encourage all academically minded students to develop a full skill set - in England we specialise at 16, in Scotland 17, in France and Germany at 19 and in the US, at graduate school. There is a necessary tension between breadth and depth of study, it is a question of where you drawn the line.

Um, read it again

[nanotech]

Battery life is 4hr talk and 8 DAYS standby. Reviewer claimed he got 4 days out of it with moderate use.

this is exactly why..

[Trejkaz]

..when you write Java applications, you should only use the STANDARD libraries.

And it's also why people who write libraries should ensure that the libraries remain backwards compatible for older apps!

Wait a second there...

[Trejkaz]

If it's the company phone doing the forwarding to the personal phone, why doesn't the company pay for the forwarding? The stingy motherfuckers!

But think yourself lucky. My last three phones, not a single one even supported one SIM, let alone two. :-)

Re:U.S. death toll in Iraq tops 10,000

[leon.gandalf]

or Islamic Extemists... another wing of Al Quida...

I though RIM lost the lawsuit?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought RIM got it's ass kicked for violations of patents or something, and they had to stop selling their equipment in the first place. How do they keep selling stuff and get away with it?

Isn't it a Thumbboard?

[callipygian-showsyst]

...not a Thumboard? Just wonderin'!

I have a "blueberry" 7280...

[foxtrot]

Now, I know I've griped often that the phone applet on this thing sucks, but I think turning the thing into a more cellphone-like device is the wrong answer. How about just fixing the phone app? Like, say, using a different button to hang up a call than the one your thumb naturally finds when you hold it?

Losing the keyboard means they lose me, at least. I use my blueberry to SSH into a Unix machine. I do not want to try to be typing on a bash command line and having it try to use predictive text to figure out what I'm meaning...

-JDF

Re:I have a "blueberry" 7280...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, with the new device you don't have that problem. There is a button that's explicitly for disconnecting a call.

I'm not 100% sure ... but i think you can expicitly map a sequence of letters ("words") to things ... like if you want to check the disk space .. then map something like "dispc" to "df -k"? Use that command more than once ... and bam! new device learns it. There are probably only a few bash commands you are going to use as you probably aren't doing serious 'shell scripting' on a BlackBerry.

Amazing!

[SubtleNuance]

RIM is making the best -- by far -- PDA/Phone combo on the market. Bar none.

Im going to trade my present phone (had it for 30 months or so) for one of these units.

Terrific!

"handles folders"?!

[camusflage]

(because it handles folders, etc in a better way)

Are you smoking crack (and nott the crackberry kind). I'm running a 7280 with 3.7.1.41, and to say it handles folders is a bit of a mis-statement. Yes, it will sync folders. Yes, you can drill down into them. You have to drill to display them, and by default, the main inbox view will show you the contents of everything but your sent items. This alone makes it well-nigh impossible to do anything serious with it as the blackberry inbox != your email inbox.

Nokia 8110i

[Anonymous Coward]

My Nokia 8110i had a config option for a second phone number. Apparently it depended on something 'special' about the SIM card and was never enabled by any telco's.

A real bummer :-(

Losing the full keyboard? I think not

[Anonymous Coward]

Did ViewSonic stop selling CRTs when LCDs came out?

So, what makes you think that RIM is going to stop selling BlackBerrys without the full keyboard. If you don't like it ... don't buy it ... buy a one with a full keyboard.

"gprs" and "GPRS"

[Garabito]

What's the diff?

Re:"gprs" and "GPRS"

[nolife]

The data capabilities only work with a GPRS signal active. The phone portion of the device will work with any of them.

shit time to look for another phone

[codepunk]

The best part about the blackberry is the damn keyboard, what a bunch of tards. I use mine to ssh the boxes at work all the time. I am sure this adaptive bullshit is going to really work with vi commands.

Re:shit time to look for another phone

[chrisbw]

The best part about the blackberry is the damn keyboard, what a bunch of tards. I use mine to ssh the boxes at work all the time. I am sure this adaptive bullshit is going to really work with vi commands.

1. The announcement of a new product doesn't mean the one you currently own is no longer functional and requires immediate replacement. Resist the urge, I know it's tough.
2. They have announced a new, and additional product, not the retirement of other products.

RIM has long had a variety of different products offered for different needs. YOUR needs may be very different from MY needs, thus the same device may not fit BOTH our needs. I can only but assume that a good deal of research was put into this product, and found that the current offering was missing the needs of some people, thus this product was developed. Unless they determine that the market won't support the existance of both products, I don't think the former-style devices will disappear.

My guess is that the targetting of this product is towards the "executive on the go" who does a lot more reading than writing (gets a message, replies with 'yes,' 'no', etc.), and uses the phone features far more often.

Don't panic.

I love my Blackberry

[Clansman]

because, and despite the above quirks ...

I get my emails and meetings and corporate address book delivered without any hassle what so ever, not one single bit of hassle, where ever I am. And, as the Head of IT responsible for supporting these devices, this is worth it's weight in gold.

No synching, no cables, no drivers, no connection errors, no download while you wait frustrations, no overly complicated apps, no ability for users to add yet more overly complicated apps and so on.

Now, is the best phone? No. Is it the best PDA? No. But is the best mobile diary and email tool in the corporate or organisation environment for all users regardless of ability? Yes.

only available in US?

[Lust]

I notice these are only available in the US through T-Mobile. Any added infrastructure needed to support these new devices in Canada (RIM's home!)? Or was this just a economic decision by distributors.

Re:only available in US?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try this website:

http://www.businessonthego1.com

Bell Mobility sells the blackberry in Canada

Bluetooth - there goes the ooth phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt it will be just as easy to snarf the email as it to get address books on normal bluet

Why *I* hate my Blackberry

[SPYvSPY]

My "Blue"Berry is about twice as wide as my P900, and it has about half as much functionality. Also, RIM is a sleazy company and should be avoided for any other option. When are the mobile carriers going to offer alternative secure push email services?

range - range - what's the range?

[tburt11]

All the slick features are nice, but I need a phone that will work on the fringes.
I have an associate who lives on a hilltop. His daughters phone works great in the house. His wife's works sometimes, and he has to go out back and stand on the brick wall and face southwest to get a signal.
The kicker is that they all have the SAME PROVIDER! Different phones...
Nowhere can I find a listing of phones that work in the fringe areas! It is a very important parameter that never gets mentioned.
Oh, and I will take a second sim card too!

Questions and comments

[infinii]

I has an Instant Messaging app included, I wonder which IM it is? MSN? ICQ? Yahoo? Proprietary?

Supported mail providers doesn't list gmail (yes I know it's in beta). Does it allow you to configure your own mail provider?

Can the Calendar sync with iCal? Does it support OS X at all?

Surely you jest

[Ira Sponsible]

Someone mod parent as funny.

Almost But Not Quite

[blooba]

It has everything I'm looking for, except of course, Linux compatibility. If not for that one, enormous failing, I would buy one today.

I can live with the cellphone keypad. I'd use it primarily as a cellphone and organizer. The only texting I do is late night party-activity coordination. I don't really need the internet features, but they're nice to have, and I'd probably start using them if the interface is nice enough.