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Longhorn's Copy Protection Standard
hype7 writes "The Register is reporting that Microsoft have attempted to force a last-minute CD protection standard on the recording industry in order to ship it in Longhorn. From the article: "Any such deal would see Microsoft support 'an industry-wide copy control platform' built in to its next-generation Longhorn operating system, with the computer giant instructing labels that the compatible secure CDs must contain additional multimedia content, such as bonus tracks, 'as a quid pro quo for adding effective [DRM] into the consumer experience'". It looks like everyone except the consumer is going to win on this one - Microsoft controls the secure format, the RIAA gets a secure format, and the consumer loses all their rights for the "quid pro quo" of a bonus track."
Forget the RIAA, support your local garage band.
Copy protection would be the best gift MS could give to the open-source movement.
95% of all windows boxes must contain 100% pirated software.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Does this mean that alternate OS's such as Linux and OS X could be consider encryption circumvention devices under the DMCA and upcoming Uber-DMCA's in the USA and around the world? This of course assumes that Microsoft's protection scheme is Windows only. And I think that's a safe bet.
...why am I not concerned about M$'s SECURITY being cracked in short order?
We imagine Apple won't be willing to play ball on this front.
Likely not, but what if the files are DMR-locked (somehow) to only play with a Longhorn-capable client? Reverse engineering would go against the DMCA likely.
Trolling is a art,
Sure, we also gain a standardized copy protection format which will be tuned not to break things like some existing copy protections *cough* Starforce *cough*.
And...standardization is good, just a single standard to bypass if we want to make backups instead of having to learn how to bypass multiple protections.
Sure, call me a pirate, but when want to play games on my laptop, I don't want to have to tote the CD around, I'd much mount the disc image to a virtual drive so I don't have to tote a breakable CD for every game I might play while traveling.
If they can't secure the code on the CD what makes you think they can secure the CD?
It does matter, encryption works the same way. It isn't unbreakable but hard to do so. It keeps everyone and their brother from doing something or looking at your private e-mail. It keeps out the ones who either are too stupid or whatnot from getting past. There will always be exceptions. *shrug*
I think the submitter is confused--they're supposed to have to give us something extra for the DRM, which means they admit that it's cumbersome.
Now then, the part I object to is that we don't have much choice about whether this bargain is agreeable or not--it's take it or leave it, with probably no way for us to choose no DRM at all.
Of course, I would expect that it will be swiftly cracked, and I doubt they'll be able to fix it any more than they can with CSS, DMCA be damned.
The CDs are still going to have regular audio tracks, so they can play in regular CD players. Longhorn will still read regular audio tracks, so it can still play old CDs that don't have a DRMed copy of their content. Even if Longhorn checks for a mixed-mode CD and restricts access to the music portion, that breaks older mixed-mode CDs that have the music on the audio portion only, and other content on the data portion. Bottom line, it sounds to me like I'll still be able to just hold shift.
Thank you M$ you just gave me the "final straw" to migrate to Linux.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
For someone who has no problem with MS, this is really arrogant. I don't care how much the music industry wants copy protection, I bet this letter did not go over well. On September 2nd, you give me a letter that gives me 18 whole days to make a decision that has major implications on the future of the entire industry. I bet this must leave even the most jaded observers questioning MS sanity and arrogance.
I figure in 2006 (when Longhorn is supposed to ship) I won't be buying CD's anymore; I barely do as it is now. I really enjoy ITunes and the pricing for a full album's material is almost always better than any retailer's (including Amazon) price.
ITunes restrictions are reasonable enough that they don't get in my way...and it's cheaper. I don't need a physical CD anymore. Music on demand. I like it.
blenderking.com over 50,000 blenders can't be wrong
This'll be like DiVX and TurboTax. Oh, and Windows XP.
Face it: people without longhorn won't suffer, people with it will, all previous generations of appliance-level devices won't work with the item, and we'll still be able to make perfect copies of an almost-perfect first-generation analog copy. No upside, a zillion downsides.
I can't wait for this show...
You see, if the old way doesn't work, CD players around the world are going to be unable to play CDs. If CDs are only playable in computers, CD sales would go drastically down as people will now be forced to rip their own CD, getting the music from another source, ala, kazaa, and probably pirating would go up.
They won't! Nobody upgrades! They buy a new computer and it's already installed.
Trying to push something at the last second never works. There will be mistakes, a need for new patches, who knows.
I would think as long as a CD-Rom can read a disk as a data disk, then this will all be meaningless. Someone will write an application which will skip over the "bonus" track. The only way this can work is if MS decides their windows media player is the only player they will allow. But didn't the courts tell MS they could not do that?
Come and say hi. http://forum.penpals.com/index.php
Hmmm....
1. I have to wait for "Longhorn" to be released
-AND-
2. The record industry has only two weeks to come to agreement on a standard?
Well, this falls under "not in my lifetime", so I guess I don't have much to worry about.
And when I do, well, then it's off to Some Other OS that doesn't feel it needful to be an "enforcer" of some industry association that cares for nothing save the preservation and enhancement of their revenues.
My real objection to DRM and other such horseshit? I'm not a criminal, and I'll not be treated as though at any instant I might become one. I guess that's the most galling part of the whole charade.
Boycott everything - they're all trying to fuck you one way or another
This is really good news for Linux vendors.
Microsoft got to be the dominant OS vendor by lowering the barriers for acquisition of its products. No copy protection (mostly), and it came on every box.
I guess they learned their lesson. If you leave off the copy protection, those silly consumers will start using the stuff right and left and then where will you be?
Market share is everything.
And Microsoft pushing around the RIAA -- that's wonderful stuff.
sigs, as if you care.
Forget about lower prices and increased innovation, the real benefit of having an alternative in Linux IMO is the protection of our rights as consumers. MS will simply speed the migration to Linux if it tries to cram DRM down our throats.
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
http://houndwire.com
It'll probably be pushed as a Critical Update to Windows XP/2000, so even if you don't upgrade to Longhorn, I'm sure you'll get it.
they'll jump on it just because it will cause problems to your average low-tech user.
The music industry/hollywood are trying to kill-off CD and DVD as fast as they can because they are copyable.
I bet it won't be long before the only way to buy movies/music will be over the net via a DRM mechanism and traditional store-bought media (and all non-DRM players ) have a very limited time left to run.
You forgot to add "and I don't know common idioms used regularly in real life although apparently not the irc channels and web forums in which I spend all meaningful portions of my life."
No problem, I'll add it for you.
The safest way to approach lava is to have another person with you and he goes first.
or a track, which would otherwise be there already, that is unlockable only on a computer with Windows Longhorn installed?
...And stop buying. Seriously. A major company is catering to another major companies needs. Film at 11.
This is one of many cases that I think the free market will work. If people don't think the quid pro quo value is in their favor, than the RIAA loses because people will stop buying their product.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
This may surprise you, but a great number of computer users, Windows, Linux, Mac or otherwise, don't focus their computing time on playing games.
They do their work, read their email and go about their business and when finished, turn the PC off and live life offline.
For those that get stuck with this problem, there's always a PS2 or Xbox.
"If you have to work too hard to do it, most people will just give up and/or buy the media"
No, they'll download it from their favorite P2P service after one person rips it.
You don't quite get this 'Internet' thing, do you?
You seem to really need to bash it into the skulls of Microsoft and RIAA that copy protection won't help much. They just aren't getting it.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Dude, if I shoved a steaming pile of SHIT into my computer, I wouldn't expect to work.
And that's exactly what shit like this is. It ain't bad news for apple, it's bad news for the fuckwits who get suckered into buying trojan horse bullshit GARBAGE.
This is a classic marketing move on Microsoft's part. First, you hit them with the down side. You will have to include this information on all of the CD's you produce. Before anyone can think of the potential options, Microsoft gives an example that the music industry is ok with, "bonus tracks".
Not so bad on its surface, but what "bonus tracks" could Microsoft possible what to add? The obvious answer is commercials! Just like DVD's. Microsoft will control, and license, the area that will play to every user before they listen to there music. Each time they play the CD.
It's a brilliant move, but one that is very scary at the same time.
Not to mention that there are countries where refusing to honour fair use would make this completely illegal. There are countries where it is a consumer right to copy any media for personal use. Many countries have very deliberate laws governing and protecting consumer access to copyrighted or licensed material, and have had as much for many, many years. It seems we've had problems like this in the past, where interested parties used the law as a weapon to seriously restrict access to media, partially in order to create a monopoly on that access.
Restricting those rights may well be illegal (standard disclaimer: IANAL) and it would be very difficult for corporate interests like the RIAA in the US and Microsoft anywhere sue anyone accused of circumventing or hacking this particular DRM scheme. They certainly cannot stop me from copying every CD I own as many times as I want. Nor can they stop my friends from borrowing my CDs and doing the same.
It's the fucking law around here.
-- clvrmnky
Microsoft appears to have offered DRM to the music industry, in exchange for which the music industry must include additional content over unprotected media. This appears to be a move by Microsoft to spread the winnings around the table, if only a little. Here's how I see it:
. Microsoft gets its own DRM technology approved by the industry, and with control of the main PC platform establishes it as the de-facto standard.
. The music industry gets a widely-deployed DRM technology to stem what it sees as an erosion of its marketplace.
. Consumers who purchase DRM-enabled media instead of standard media would get additional content not available elsewhere.
I think this move should be acknowledged by the digirati as a small step towards a real solution, though not the final one. It appears Microsoft is attempting to exact a concession from the music industry on behalf of consumers. (Of course, it would be more heroic to suffer a cost themselves, but Microsoft is anything but financially stupid.)
Now for some problems with the alleged proposal:
. DRM is DRM, and some of us don't want any of it.
. If you must have DRM, an open standard would be preferred.
. It's likely only a matter of time before the DRM is broken, bringing the music industry back to square one.
. Additional content for our troubles is a nice touch - make it worthwhile (like videos of all the tracks, lyrics, Bio's, discographies, Lo-Fi non-DRM MP3's for portable devices, etc.).
But let's not just hammer the participants out of reflex. Slashdot may be a mob, but we're supposed to be a smart mob.
My G4 powerbook's got an eject button on the very top-right of the keyboard. Ok, it's a software one, but the machine's mounted and happily ripped every copy-protected CD I own, including one that locked up an old G3 iMac.
I don't know when this becomes critical mass, but I find the trend in media disturbing. But, before it does, and I don't suggest the time, place, or mechanism, I wouldn't mind seeing a mass customer revolt. It wouldn't take long for the RIAA to raise eyebrows if virtually everyone stopped purchasing music until the future of "owning" music looked less draconian. I know much of this is driven by the fear of pirating, etc., but the future does more than assure less piracy and seems more to ensure beaucoups des revenues (pardon the butchered French) for RIAA and cohorts.
If we can organize flash-mobs, we should be able to organize flash-boycotts (assuming there are others who see the trend in media control as untenable).
Microsoft controls the secure format
IRONY - 2. A sort of humor, ridicule, or light sarcasm, which adopts a mode of speech the meaning of which is contrary to the literal sense of the words.
Hit record.
I don't hear a difference. But then maybe it's my tired old ears?
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
I say we start a movement against the purchasing of music from any label associated with the RIAA. to Quote /. "There's small choice in rotten apples. -- William Shakespeare, "The Taming of the Shrew"
-This whole mess mkes me really mad, whatever happened to the Consumers Rights, or did those die in the 80's? It seems that everything today is geared at protecting the Big Companies. perfect example Grandmas and 12year olds get sued, and it's ok. This is a sick world we live in. Money is not everything, information is everything.
Microsoft is moving their monopoly control onto the CD music industry? Will these copy-protected CDs be able to work on any other platforms other than Longhorn? What about Linux and Mac users? Will we be locked out?
I find it so infuriating that the moronic recording industry is implementing these sorts of things. If a CD is copy protected, someone is going to get copies of the tracks onto P2P networks somehow anyway, and they will be accessible only through illegal means. They are forcing legitimate customers to resort to music piracy as their only avenue to get the latest albums.
I'm honestly one of those people that used to buy a lot of CDs. I have no qualms about paying for it legitimately, so I find it offensive that I have to be subjected to copy protection to prevent me from getting it onto my computer, which is my stereo as well. Not only can't the SuperDrive on my Titanium PowerBook rip the CDs, but it can't even play them as regular audio CDs either. I no longer buy CDs anymore, because my laptop can't read them and I can't play them, because they are all copy protected. I was a good customer and now I don't buy their products!
Doesn't that say something about the shit-for-brains strategy they're implementing? I don't share my ripped tracks on P2P networks. I actually find it useful to own CDs because they serve as backup copies. And since they are uncompressed, you can re-rip them using different algorithms, like if you choose decide to switch from the default 128 kbps to 192 kbps or higher for better quality, or if you decide to start using the Apple Lossless audio codec.
They are actually stopping me from buying their product. They are such fucking unbelievable idiots. And guess what? Music from the recording industries isn't necessary in one's life as much as their marketing would like you to think. I'm fine with the music I already have. Like I said, I was a good customer- a really good customer- so I already acquired a decent collection of CDs before this copyright crap came along. They are locking out honest paying customers. That is the dumbest thing ever.
Except its industry? I would certianly prefer no DRM, i certianly understand why the riaa would want it. Its in their best interests. Unfortuantly, there are many stupid people that don't understand the consequences of file sharing of copyrighted works. Of course, the industry is going to react. If everyone would freekin apply some common sence we wouldn't be in this pickle. Now we all have to pay for the sins of the few. I just hope that the restrictions aren't more severe then they are now for digital music stores.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
...because it's the only way to charge you when you have a song stuck in your head.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
Someone will just play the cd using their super-linear ultra high fidelity audiophile 28 bit audio card, and plug the output into their ultra linear ultra high fidelity audiophile 28 bit digitizer, and then downsample the whole audiophile quality album into a very non-audiophile 128kbps MP3. If you can hear it or see, there's a way to copy it. Even if you have to whip out the ole' cam-corder.
I don't think this has much to do about fair use, right to copy, or the assumption that all technically adept people are guilty until proven innocent.
I think this is all about an end run around the weak DOJ ruling concerning Microsoft's monopolistic practices.
This coupled with their patent attack provides a two-fold prong to create a Microsoft monopoly without violating the terms of the DOJ ruling.
The result of these two business practices is as follows.
While I am not a lawyer, this all seems to be a perfectly legitimate business direction to take. This is based on the following business model.
This market strategy ignores revolutionary changes. However, with enough stress and marketing revolutionary changes can be thwarted by discouraging people to think.
Of course, this is bad for the economy, bad for the consumer, and bad for advancement in any field.
IBM tried this when it pre-announced products in the 1970's. This basically froze the entire third party market for IBM mainframe hardware and software. DOJ found this to be a predatory practice and prevented IBM from doing this.
Microsoft's tactic while similar (keep everyone guessing when Longhorn will be out and what it will contain) is also more draconian. By trying to create licensed industry-wide standards, they hope to control various key technologies which will allow them to control the markets. By patenting commonly used software techniques Microsoft can then persue courtroom remedies against selected targets.
It appears that the IETF and Marid are a bit smarter than that. I doubt that RIAA and MPAA are. Look for Microsoft to actively prevent multimedia applications from running on non-Microsoft products.
Of course, this begs the question: Why doesn't Microsoft truly innovate? Other successful technical companies have.
No, I mean that the capability of the analog quality of the card is much greater than the digital quality of CD audio.
Therefore, looping though analog cables will not make the music sound worse.
If you were using a 16 bit D/A, then the analog transfer WOULD degrade the signal. But not with 24 bit D/A/D
--jeff++
ipv6 is my vpn
The behind-the-scenes politics looks really interesting. MS makes contract with all sorts of online music resellers. MS then releases new media player with NEW DRM and opens OWN online store. MS announces "breakthru" in music DRM and tells RIAA they "must act now!"
Is this a race to see how fast they'll get slapped down or what...oh wait...they've got that HUGE dividend comming up real soon...maybe they're trying to pump the stock price before they cash out!!! The writing's on the wall. MS is planning SOMETHING anti-competitive and hostile to the market real-soon-now and wondering when the Justice Dept will get called in for the smack down