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Feather-based Jacobean Space Chariot
simonmsh writes "The article Cromwell's moonshot: how one Jacobean scientist tried to kick off the space race describes 17th century plans to build a space chariot out of springs, feathers and gunpowder. The design was based on the idea that gravity disappeared at an altitude of 20 miles, which was called into question by Hooke ? and Boyle ? 's work.
It sounds like the plot of a Neal Stephenson book." Said book, and its sequels are phenomenal.
That's funny, I could have sworn gravity dissapeared within 3 inches of our receptionist's breasts...
Although I think getting within 20 miles of them is a longshot...
I have a plan. Using mainly spoons, we'll tunnel our way out of the city...
"In space we wouldn't need to eat because the reason why we need to eat on Earth is that the pull of gravity pulls food through our bodies and constantly empties our stomachs," Professor Chapman explained.
:-)
Quotes like this remind you of a child trying to divine where all the food they eat goes. I remember thinking at 3 or 4 years old that there must be some sort of containers inside us to hold the food forever. Then I considered the volume of food we eat and just couldn't fathom what was happening to it. It didn't quite connect that the food might get processed then *ahem* ejected.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Give me a big enough spring, and I can move Rubin Studdard into low earth orbit.
I wonder if macgyver could have done better...
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
According to legend the Chinese sent a man up around 1500AD.
He didn't come back, but that's the way with pioneers
--
US$10, really
TIme Travel Possible:-
It came in the shape of a 17th-century clergyman who drew up plans for a spaceship powered by wings, springs and gunpowder, a leading science historian will reveal this week
I mean wow, just wow.
"17th century plans to build a space chariot out of springs, feathers and gunpowder. The design was based on the idea that gravity disappeared at an altitude of 20 miles"
I wonder if the thing could have made it 20 miles up. If someone builds one, I will supply the bound and gagged - erm, I mean "Jacobean Spacesuited" test pilots.
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This kind of stuff makes me wonder which current technology will be looked back upon with the same feeling we look back at this "technology"??
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Maybe if you had a REALLY REALLY big spring ...
Re Stephenson books: Phenomenally large? Phenomenally self-indulgent? Phenomenally didactic?
At any rate, it's an amusing story.
All that hand-waving is vaguely reminiscent of "Mars Direct" or whatever they're calling it these days. Once upon a time, we didn't have to eat in space because of the absence of gravity. Now, we just hand-wave away radiation damage to the crew and the logistics of setting up a nuclear reactor on Mars to produce fuel for the return journey.
i wonder if they made any preperations for his return. or was that supposed to be a one-way ticket? (like the proposed manned mars missions)
Only morons moderate based on a sig.
"Of course his approach did not work because he based it on the premise that the Earth's pull only went up 20 miles and if you crossed that 20 miles, you could float after that," no, i think the main reason it didn't work was because it was a clockwork flapping machine..
Unlike you lot, we, the people living in the 25th century, are smart.
According to ancient Indian texts, the people had flying machines which were called "Vimanas." The ancient Indian epic describes a Vimana as a double-deck, circular aircraft with portholes and a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer.
It flew with the "speed of the wind" and gave forth a "melodious sound." There were at least four different types of Vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders ("cigar shaped airships"). The ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so numerous, it would take volumes to relate what they had to say. The ancient Indians, who manufactured these ships themselves, wrote entire flight manuals on the control of the various types of Vimanas, many of which are still in existence, and some have even been translated into English.
The Samara Sutradhara is a scientific treatise dealing with every possible angle of air travel in a Vimana. There are 230 stanzas dealing with the construction, take-off, cruising for thousand of miles, normal and forced landings, and even possible collisions with birds. In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightening and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy source which sounds like "anti-gravity."
The Vaimanika Sastra (or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas. This document has been translated into English and is available by writing the publisher: VYMAANIDASHAASTRA AERONAUTICS by Maharishi Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr. G. R. Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation located in Mysore.
Sources: Ancient flying machines (Contains diagrams/details).
Wikipedia reference to the term-Vimanas
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Although gravity doesn't disapear after 20 miles, you can acheive geostationary orbit at 22 miles - so they weren't too far off.
... they were 22 miles off
No, wait - I think I'm missing the obvious
It's obvious 17th century England is trying to use its stocks of springs, feathers and gunpowder to develop WMDs. I say we invade now. We don't want to wait until the smoking feathers becomes a mushroom cloud.
I love how we turn an interesting bit of history into a plug for Mr. Stephenson's ego.
Dr. John Wilkins, the Jacobean scientist in question, was quite an interesting chap really.
For example, with his book, A Discourse concerning a New Planet, he tried to popularise the view of the universe according to Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo. He attempted to explain in the book that the Moon is not purely a shiny, cut out disc but rather it is a world with a landscape like that of the Earth.
Fairly radical stuff for the time, though admittedly he did publish the book annonymously.
For more info, try this or this
I wonder if the Jacobean scientist got as high as the question marks?
Newton was the first to suggest that the same force which keeps us on the Earth was responsible for the orbits of the plants around the sun. The planets are demonstrably further than 20 miles from the surface of the Earth.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Yeah, but it's not like Stephen King died or anything...
CBA@#$
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It sounds like the plot of a Neal Stephenson book.
Hmm... Also reminds me of the plot of a Jules Verne book - one that predates Stephenson by a number of years.
A few hundred years earlier, it would have been much easier. One only had to board a ship and sail to the edge of the earth. Since it was flat, they would have been able to sail to the edge and merely jump off into space. Unfortunately, space travelers at the time had no way to return, so it was very difficult to sell tickets to rich kings.
oh yeah? this says he is dead...
Stephenson is great and all, but Phillip Jose Farmer had a great short story on a similar topic about twenty years back.
Sail On, Sail On! posited that Francis Bacon turned his experiments toward electromagnetism, inventing the radio- except, that instead of electrons, they refered to them as Cherubim. So the AM radios of the day were tuned to various CW's - Cherubim wavelengths, which where the slope the cherubim's wings described as they flew through the ether.
The story takes place on columbus' ships as he travels to discover America- it's terrific. Strongly recommend digging this one up out of your local library.
What a strange bird is the pelican, his beak can hold more than his belly can.
Nice 1, I stand corrected!
CB*#@$(
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This story should be Exhibit A in the argument that we need to be able to moderate entire articles. This one should be -1 Offtopic.
<sarcasm>
Wow, once upon a time people had hairbrained ideas for inventions or crazy concepts about how the world works. How newsworthy!</sarcasm>
Tell me, was this article: 1) 'news for nerds', 2) 'stuff that matters', or 3) offtopic?
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
Actually, in the middle ages they never actually believed the earth to be flat; this is backed up by religious and maritime texts of the age.
The myth was actually started in 18th Century England to prove the cultural and scientific superiority of the time.
I, for one, welcome our timetravelling anonymous coward posting timelords.
liqbase
Mars Direct....hand-wave away radiation damage to the crew...
Various people have a rather strange, almost religious fervor about how "evil" radiation is, and radioactive materials are. There is a lot of both justified and irrational fear about the use of radioactive materials and techniques on Earth.
However, yes, space is filled with radiation. So is the Earth, just at different strenghts. We've had from 60 to 100 years of experience dealing with effects of radation, and I believe most of the hard-science-informed (not necessarily the 'popular science' crowd) understands the various dangers, and lack thereof.
So, the quote above dealt with radiation effects on the crew of an approx. 2 year long mission to Mars ("Mars Direct") comprising 9 months journey, 6 months on the surface, and 9 months coming home.
- the amounts, types, and densities of radiation over the entire Earth-Mars trajectory are what most scientists would call 'well characterized', meaning mostly known (the shapes and locations of their bell curves are known with reasonable levels of uncertainty);
- Effects of radiation on humans, electronics, food, etc. are also well-characterized;
- ISS (space station Alpha) personnel living in orbit have demonstrated these measurements to be roughly correct (no 'mysterious radiation' has shown up or had any other effects);
The other comment, about a nuclear reactor on Mars to generate power, will have some reaction among the anti-nuclear crowd here, methinks. This is worrisome. Unless we can come up with a means to generate solar power that is far less massive (lighter), we cannot deliver it to Mars. Thus, we need a reactor. This will NOT pollute Mars.The design of the reactor is as follows:
Big-shielded-container-of-plutonium stays permanently sealed, no working fluids or moving parts. Plutonium generates lots of heat. Big copper bar attached to plutonium container conducts heat. Along the way, (I believe this is the method! Please correct?) a specially designed thermo-sensitive photocell 'receptor' (photovoltaic cell sensitive to infrared) generates electrical power. The other side of the receptor is connected to a big radiator (a "heat sink", alumnium or copper with lots of fins that radiates heat).
The method has no moving parts, is passively cooled, emits fairly low amounts of radiation but lots of heat, for free, with no by-products to pollute the atmosphere or soil. Just like on Earth (only slighty more so) cosmic rays, gamma rays, and other radiation rains down on the surface anyway.
Yes, ideally we'd have sets of large photocell tarps that could be spread out on the ground and used to generate power. We could use that technology here on Earth, too. There's certainly enough land there to spread it out on. The land surface area of mars is the same as Earth (but 66% of Earth's surface is ocean). So, there's lots of acreage available.
-- Kevin
Unitarian Church: Freethinkers Congregate!
I wonder if this 'space chariot' is the basis of Balthazar and Blimunda . The author won a Nobel Prize for the book. In the book, the device works. It's a good read.
This is just the discussion in the popular non-fiction book; don't be too surprised if the actual studies thought about them as well.
Yeah, yeah, I can see the preview button just fine...
Unfortunately, Wilkins never had the chance to test his theories, and what Professor Chapman terms the Jacobean Space Programme was grounded. - I don't think the author of this likes this Wilkins guy too much.
You can't handle the truth.
Agreed, one and all. Yes, the historical and scientific detail that NS employs is astounding. But for either literary merit or entertainment value, you'd be better off reading the Encyclopaedia Britannica from start to finish.
Pity. Cryptonomicon was a lot of fun. WTF happened???
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
I wonder if the inventor had any idea how much black powder would have been required to lift even a moderately sized object into orbit? By my calculations, the energy released by the boosters would have atomized said flying machine, plus its unlucky passenger...
The only theng the editor could find to say about this was that it's like a book by some author????? Huh?
Said book, and its sequels are phenomenal. ...if by "phenomenal" you mean "SUCK like nothing on this planet has ever sucked before."
Of the four independent and unrelated plot lines, only one is even the slightest bit interesting-- and it's not the same as the one plotline that makes even a tiny bit of sense.
Wake me when Stephenson remembers how to write.
Was Dr. Wilkins an intelligent man? He might well have been. Perhaps he just didn't have access to enough information to develop an approach that could have succeeded. What would he be doing in today's world? Building a perpetual motion machine? Would he be working for NASA?
Quite clearly this is evidence of outsourcing in the early days of the aerospace industry.. I suppose we'll never learn.. ;)
..sounds a lot like the contraptions I build..to which my girlfriend always has this comment "NO! I'M NOT 'TRYING THAT OUT' YOU PERVERT!"
I am sure that if they sent him up on to top or back of enough propellant (dynamite), he probably incerated on the way to the heavens. Either that or he landed in pieces somewhere.
e se %20inventions&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
List of Chinese Inventions:
http://www.google.com/search?q=list%20of%20chin
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
point of order: this story posting does not have a witty "from the...dept." tagline.
...have you tried 'The Shockwave Rider'? That's about his most 'fun' work. And while depressing, 'The Sheep Look Up' is incredibly gripping.
Damn, now you made me want to go get copies of those again.
Only one L in the first name.
Dan East
Swing low, sweet space chariot.
For the "Mars Direct" plan, none of the geology (areology?) matters - the "living off the land" breakthrough in Mars Direct is really just "living off the air" to produce fuel and oxygen, we understand the Martian atmosphere pretty well, and small scale fuel production systems will fit on small robotic sample return missions. If we don't understand the surface well enough after multiple sets of robot probes, that's just another excuse to send people there as well.
For the exploration/exploitation of Mars after the first missions, I think the unanswered political questions ("What will prevent this from becoming just another 'flag and footprints' expedition to be canned after a few missions?") will become problems long before any agricultural questions become important. Mars Direct makes some of the same design decisions (expendible heavy lift rockets being the most obvious) that made it easier to reach the moon but much more tempting to stop the Apollo program shortly afterwards.
Obviously hyperlinks was not on the list.
I'd have to add that Christopher Columbus used a globe that was 2/3rds the size of what the earth really was, which is why he thought he could get to the Indies with the technology of the time.
When he got to Portugual, who BTW knew quite accurately the diameter of the Earth at the time due to their having acutally going to India and the "spice islands" on their own around Africa, thought Columbus was a total nut case and turned him down.
The point here is that not only was the earth considered to be a sphere going back to "ancient" times, but even the diameter has been fairly accurately known +/- 100 km for at least 2500 years. The "Flat Earth Society", as it now exists, is purely a 20th Century invention.
In the case of navigation and the discovery of the America's by European counties, read up a little on the discovery of Brazil by Portugal. The whole thing is a farce, except for the fact that Portugual formally and publicly acknowledged the fact that the territory was there and that they claimed it. It would be more like if the Bush Administration did a major push for a mission to Mars only to find Vulcans living there, drinking Coca-Cola and eating Twinkies during the formal introductions.
It's obviously wrong, everyone knows it's really 42!
Never give any object more potential energy than you want it to have.
17th century plans to build a space chariot out of springs, feathers and gunpowder.....
I bet Macgyver could do it.
I couldn't think of a sig.
Now that is one big globe! No wonder he needed more than one ship!
such as the theory of quantum mechanics? i bet some time in the future many people will be laughing over what we thought about quantum mechanics, when they realize how wrong we were and find a way to simplify it.
Yeah, but the people that laugh will probably be morons like yourself that don't understand science at all.
Obviously there are things we don't understand yet, and our theories are incomplete. But quantum mechanics has proved itself time and time again to be the most elegant solution to the problems faced by physics in the early 20th century, (alongside relativity). It isn't stupid, it's on the same footing as newtonian mechanics; that of good science. How could anyone expect newton to have derived special relativity with the technology available at the time (ie, virtually nothing)? The science begets the technology that begets more science. That's simply the way it has to be. I don't believe that future generations will see QM as stupid. The most amazing advances in understanding took place in the shortest amount of time, and that again was largely due to the state of the technology available at the time, which was a direct result of the scientific endeavours that preceded it.
With greater technology, we may discover that things are simpler than we thought, that would be great, but it wouldn't make QM stupid, and statements like "QM is crazy and counter-intuitive, and will therefore one day be seen as a pile of crap" just show how ignorant you are of the scientific method. In short : where's your theory of micro-physical phenomena that gives 10 or more significant figures of accuracy for practically any experiment we're presently capable of performing?
The man behind the lunar mission was Dr John Wilkins, scientist, theologian ...
Is this the same Dr John Wilkins Neal Stephenson refers to on his website?
The Real Character was invented in the 1660s by John Wilkins, an Anglican divine and later the Bishop of Chester, in an attempt to devise a truly scientific language and alphabet.
Would be interesting to know.
Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
you'd take it more seriously if he'd managed heavier than air flight before worrying his head with interplanetary travel.
'There is a Light that never goes out.'