Slashdot Mirror
Brazil Successfully Launches Its First Rocket To Space
thatshortkid writes "The Washington Times is reporting on Brazil's first successful space launch. Since it is closer to the equator, the task of getting up to space is easier, meaning much more cargo room over fuel. Hello commercial launch market! With this development, along with China's expanding space program, India making moves to space, and our own homegrown (ok, still growing) private space industry, where does this put NASA? Does it take a load off of them to pursue bigger endeavors, or will NASA slowly decline in relevance?"
It turned out they were just Brazil nuts.
...can anyone tell me how being close to the equator makes it easier to get to space?
Anyway, great for Brazil! Hopefully the US won't look down on them like they did the Chinese.
Ask and Discuss your HTML and other web dev stuff
Over here in Argentina there have been numerous atempts to do this, having the same advantage as Brazil. Our goverments havent been able to succesfully do anything, so congrats to Brazil!
Brazil has certainly taken over Orkut. NASA is clearly the next logical step.
Letter
T(r)opical - no? Geez, tough to get a laugh round here... :)
And all this time I thought the Moonraker was launched from somewhere around there back in the 70s.
Maybe NASA will actually acquire enough technology from private enterprise to actually put a man on the moon!
O sao Luis, Brasil, outubro 24 (UPI) -- Brasil lançou seu primeiro foguete no espaço, um feat que viesse apenas 14 meses depois que seu programa do espaço devastated por um acidente mortal da almofada do lançamento.
Os oficiais brazilian do espaço estão esperando que um vôo de teste bem sucedido do foguete ajude ao rebound do programa do espaço de nation's do último acidente de year's em que muitos de cientistas e do pessoal superiores do espaço de Brazil's foram matados quando um foguete fundiu acima no centro de Alcantara durante o liftoff.
Ajudaria também a Brasil promover Alcantara como um venue ideal para as missões multinacionais futuras, como sua proximidade ao equador -- dentro de um par dos graus -- makes para uns lançamentos mais fáceis no espaço. A terra move-se mais rapidamente no equador.
Os veículos necessitam conseqüentemente menos empurrado para começar no espaço, permitindo que carregue mais carga no lugar do combustível adicional.
Since it is closer to the equator, the task of getting up to space is easier
That explains why Iceland doesn't have a space program. Plus it's really hard to get off the ground with geothermal power.
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
Talk about a growth market. Poor country, cheap ground for large launch facilities, decent tourist(y) spots along the coast... If they can attract the market, they're in to make some money.
Whose stock do I buy?
Looks like NASA's relevance is going the way of NASA's funding! Ooh. Zing!
...to the list of those on pace to beat the US in sci/tech within 30 or so years.
The government should, in general, exit the free market and should stop funding technology projects. The only role that government should play is in funding pure-science projects. Commercial companies do not have the spare change or time horizon (i.e. shareholders expecting results each quarter) to invest in studying, for example, "The Theory of Everything".
Thus, NASA still has a role. NASA should focus on long-term projects like sending exploratory probes or people to Mars. The American government should spread its largesse to the physics department at top universities. Supporting the pure sciences requires government support.
By the way, exiting the free market also means that the American government should force the Mexican government, the Chinese government, and the Indian government out of the free market and should force them to enforce Western standards of human rights, workers' rights, and environmental and consumer protection, shutting down the H-1B program. If they do not comply, then we kick the Mexicans, the Chinese, and the Indians out of the American market. Free trade means that that we trade only with other nations who support free trade.
While it may affect NASA, I doubt it will cripple them. Commercial flights are going to focus on getting people in to space (for large sums of money). NASA will focus on sending large, heavy payloads in to space, like communications satellites. It may actually be beneficial for NASA to partner with, say, Brazil to get the advantages of their location (though transporting all those sensitive things would be a royal PITA), but I don't think the advantage will be so large that they'll do it.
Plus, NASA has a research focus, sending things to Mars or the Moon, which simply isn't commercially interesting right now. Maybe when we discover oil on mars (because, you know, they had dinosaurs) or some benefit that would intrigue the medical research corporations, Mars or the Moon may become interesting, but until then, nobody is going to sponsor all the research NASA does. And since experimentation in a weightless environment wasn't too terribly fascinating for them, I don't think Mars would be either.
So I think NASA will pretty much stay put, but the competition will 1) make them step up their game a bit, and 2) allow them to focus their resources on the things nobody else is currently doing.
The solution is obvious: offshore NASA to cut costs!
Table-ized A.I.
Why are millions and millions of dollars being poured into space programs when Brazil, China and India are all considered Third World Countries. (China may be on the fence.) Wouldn't this money be better spent on social programs?
The European Space Agency has been taking advantage of an equatorial launch site for 40 years in French Guiana. NASA has managed to remain relevant during those 40 years, so I don't foresee Brazil's recent launch changing that.
I have heard a lot about how you can save on fuel by flying an airplane as high as possible and launching a much smaller rocket from the air into space. If you recall, this is exactly what the Space Ship One team did to win the X Prize. Would anyone happen to know why we don't see more nations investing on this technology? It sounds like a better solution for commercial launches. Why China, India, and Brazil insist on investing on this "land-to-space" type of rockets?
NASAs biggest problem is that it took its eye off the ball and lost direction. I think after they got to the moon they didn't really know what to do next so they just went to the moon a few more times rather than expanding their horizon and maybe trying to push on to Mars. They had something that captured the publics imagination with the HST but have now cocked it up to the point where the average person is just confused.
I admit you have to do some science to justify the expense of space missions but Jo Public only understands pictures and the science leaves him bored. Jo Publics attention span is also only just longer than that of the average goldfish so you have to keep the thrills coming. People will wait maybe a year for something amazing but they won't wait 10 years. NASA has got to remember that the public are funding them so they had better put on a good show.
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
I'd love to see a technology boom in Brazil. What a perfect place to live. Beautiful country. Beautiful weather. Perfect beaches. I'd never choose a position in Brazi over India. Brazil wins hands down. Let's hope technology continues to boom in Brazil! I'd relocate in a second if the opportunity existed. Beleza Pura!
we should invade them before they manage to aquire weapons of mass destruction
...did Sam Lowry escape on the rocket?
Aye carrumba!!! Aye-eee!!!!
No need to mock Brazil with Mexican-ish expressions.
As if everything below Texas were some sort of uniform Hispanic cultural goo. People don't even speak Spanish in Brazil.
As I had commented earlier today in another story, what's more impressive is the rapid recovery from last year's explosion. Funny the Brazilians are fond of conspiracy stories about that. (Quite a few think the CIA had something to do with it - leftover distrust from the era of military rule) This launch was not as ambitious as the craft which was destroyed, but at least Brazil didn't stay paralyzed after the tragedy. Hopefully they can keep up the momentum - without attracting too much attention. Certain parties might view the recent nuclear developments (new enrichment technology) in association with the rocket program and start thinking Brasil is developing ICBM's
:P
Off topic aside - I had thought about posting this story but I had submitted one about Operacao Cavalo de Troia II - 53 phish scammers busted for over 30M in bank fraud -19 of them in the interior city where I work, I had some relatively inside information on the bust. But no I'm not bitter
Watashi wa chikyubutsurigakusha desu.
Being near the equator doesn't make getting into space easier. However, it does make it easier to get into a low-inclination orbit. Polar orbits are actually harder from the equator.
(Note to other commenters: The business about the Earth's equatorial bulge is mostly a red herring. Launching from a mountain or a plateau would have a much stronger effect, but no-one really bothers to do that.)
... that 73% of Brazilians approve this endeavour and want the space program to continue. The other 27% want the Brazilian space agency to stop faking it! :)
The US calls these sounding rockets.
Hopefully Brazil will get its satellite launch program back up and running. It was severely damaged when one of the solid rocket motors ignited in a rocket being set up on the pad for launch, which destroyed the pad and killed the technicians working to set it up.
Brazilians speaks portuguese, not spanish.
Miller called Pike 'Unix Co-Creator'. He's only been using Unix since - 1998? Go to his website. Look at the whiskers on that buzzard.
He's some kind of ASS.
...launches a space program, but honestly its nothing but fragmenting resources. Countries need to team up and do make ONE common space program. Its time to put away national pride, propaganda etc, because let's face it: a country in itself be it even the USA is small to run a space program. We need two things: the international science community to work together and nations to work together (giving funding to ONE common space program). We are 15 years after the cold war and we dont need to compete with other nations. Its high time the countries join together, create an international organization leading the project and start pumping money only there...this organization should work on developing all the new stuff and pioneering space travel and aswell trying to figure out how to formalize commercial space travel, we do need some rules and regulations in it. I can imagine it like an international agreement signed by the countries who would like to let companies into space. Well i dont expect this to happen all at once, but -imo- this is the logical thing to do.
;)
Did i mention the expression space program yet?
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Can't we all just get along?
Yeah, carnival time. Yeah hah.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Haha teh US-boi trys to be funnay haha
The summary is pretty bizarre. Brazil's launch is to a viable commercial launch system what the Wright Flier is to a 747. It was quite an accomplishment (coming after the previous accidents) but hardly anything more than a promising start along a 15-20 year road, with optimism. RTFA.
Additionally, the development of more commercial launch capability is essentially absurd - given that there is a huge overcapacity in commercial launch capability.
Moreover, NASA has had very little or nothing to do with commercial launch for many, many years. Private companies have been doing this essentially on their own for a long time. They use the same launchers and use Cape facilities. But NASA pays just like everybody else, when they use expendable vehicles. So the relevance of even more commercial launch capability would have no effect in any way on NASA - even assuming that this was what the Brazilians were doing - which they are not.
As far a "looking down on the Chinese" - well, given that they have had exactly one manned launch with capabilities similar to a Gemini flight from 40 years ago, (and an incredible string of accidents including dropping fully-fueled boosters into innocent villlages, destroying them almost completely, and then doing theor utmot to cover it up, and crashing a film return capsule into someone's house just last week) I thought that NASA's reaction was quite charitable. Given the problems in trying to run an international program with the highly-experienced Russians, and the apalling technology-transfer implications, it's hard to see how it would be a wise idea to jump on the Chinese bandwagon with the ISS or other international cooperation projects.
Other than that, excellent summary of the original article.
I heard the thing going up with a noisy samba rumbling noise.
Get ready to receive BSS your Brazil soccer station 24/7.
Russia was the first into orbit, and it scared the shit out of the USA.
-William
God is everything science has yet to explain.
I've reached a point where I don't think NASA should be in manned space flight or commercial launches.
I think that it should either be shut down or just focus on unmanned scientific missions and some basic materials and propulsion research.
Let the commercial sector do what it does best, take risks in money making ventures. Though we do need to keep the tort lawyers out.
Fold manned space flight and other such ventures back into the DOD where they make sense to pursue in national defense. They will take the risks that NASA can't stomach.
www.bannination.com Two things float to the top he
...someones going into space!
I was befuddled when the NASA "space dog" project
failed...(dog died)
I have a pretty good feeling Brazil is
going to pick up the slack! I'll have to
consider Brazil my next travel destination,
"been to space!" always helps with that decision.
Wow, what a brilliant idea!
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend the Frenchies.
I think we need a very strong Earth orbit governance body with the US and Russia as permanent members (were we were the first up there).
Why not make all countries of the world permanent members, instead of Russia and the USA solely?
Score: i, Imaginary
In fact Werner von Braun took some interest in the Indian space programme, in the 60s.
India's first satellite was launched 30 years ago, called Aryabhata-I named after the 6th century Indian mathematician, Aryabhata.
Also, the launching station at Thumba is right on the Magnetic Equator. A story covering this can be seen here. Also,
A map of the world's space centers is available.
And if you actually spoke both, you'd know you can say aye carrumbe in both languages, plus Italian!
-psy
In the end, all will inevitably belong to WAYLAND-YUTANI!
Bye!
SeqBox
Português é minha língua nativa, "aye carrumbe" não quer dizer nada em português, nem de Portugal e nem do Brasil.
NASA has a bunch of different responsibilities:
basic scientific research
commercial launches/coordination
military launches
big space projects
The way I see it, the basic scientific research area of NASA will eventually be handled if not by the NSF, by something very much like it. The various NASA research centers are pretty much like the national labs already.
The commercial launches may one day be handled by private enterprise, but there will always be regulation which goes along with them. This area could more easily be handled in the future by something like the FAA.
The military launches really should be handled by the military.
That leaves the big space projects. This really can't be taken away. There has to be someone out there who will coordinate the truly crazy space projects. Who exept NASA (working with other government space agencies: ESA, etc) will build gigantic orbiting particle accellerators? Helping to coordinate multinational projects is really going to be the role of NASA and other governmental space agencies in the future.
Right now, one of the biggest impediments to big science projects (ITER comes to mind) is getting all the parties involved simply to agree on what they are doing.
This sounds intersting, i bet they use samba to communicate with it.
No really, seriously now, NASA would never pahse off as u suggested, first of all i think NASA has a million other things to do rather than flying rockets.They use rockets only to achieve other goals they have, while on the other hand, Brazil, India, China or whatever are yet only thinking on how to get the damn thing to fly.
I met a few ppl who used to work at NASA, damn these people are so damn smart, they make me feel as if i am a rookie,maybe i am.
The lunatic is in my head
In 1971 a joint civilian-military committee, the Brazilian Commission for Space Activities (Comissão Brasileira de Atividades Espaciais--Cobae), was established and placed under the CSN (National Security Council). Cobae was chaired by the head of the Armed Forces General Staff (Estado-Maior das Forças Armadas--EMFA) and was in charge of the Complete Brazilian Space Mission (Missão Espacial Completa Brasileira--MECB). The MECB, created in 1981, was an ambitious US$1 billion program with the aim of attaining self-sufficiency in space technology.
The potential military applications of Brazil's MECB center around the Sonda IV and its VLS, which could be used for a ballistic missile. Sonda IV has a range of 600 kilometers and can carry a 500-kilogram payload, and is therefore subject to MTCR restrictions. The transformation of the Sonda IV into an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) would require several more successful launches and a major technological leap, especially in payload shielding and guidance.
The government of Brazil has stated that it supports the peaceful applications of space technology and denies any intention of developing a ballistic missile.
Link
Google "brazil icbm"
-kgj
-kgj
Most likely the latter. Consider the logistical difficulties not merely with the space hardware itself, but with the fuel for the vessel, trans-shipping (for example) the Space Shuttle back from one of the continental landing strips, the accommodations for the large ground control and maintenance crews, the food and supplies for the personnel, etc. Florida is just easier to get all the stuff to.
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
I am glad this finally happened. I am Brazilian and I know that our country can (and it does) produce great brilliant minds and top scientists. Even NASA has numerous Brazilian scientists.
The problem have always relied on the government support. Brazilian Govt. is very very corrupt, and most of the money that should be spent on science and technology ends in Switzerland, at some ilegal bank accounts from our beloved politicians.
That accident that ocurred a while ago is a proof. The crew involved with the project have donnated money from their own pockets to buy equipment and pieces of the VLS (Satellite Launcher Vehicle) that exploded.
I sincerely hope that this achievement will be the first of many others.
Congratulations to all Brazilian scientists that have been involved with this project.
Responding to my own post: that was a very lame attempt at humor :( sorry about that folks!
because we were the first countries into space, we are the most active space members, we have done the most advanced projects in space and we therefore should have the most say in what happens up there since we have been the ones with the longest track record of responsibility.
permanence doe snot mean a country does not mean that no other country doe snot get on the council, it just means that the general assembly can not pull some crap like they did with the human rights council and remove the US in favor of the most anti-human rights regimes on the planet.
in turn, the Gen asem would probably vote the US off and commence with regulating the crap out of the US just to spite. all the permanence would do is to protect the 60 years of investment that Russia and the US have had with space.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Brazil is one of the world's largest arms exporters to the Third World. Its first three space rockets, the Sonda I, II, and III, were all developed into surface-to-surface missiles that Iraq, Libya, and Saudi Arabia purchased right off the production line.
Link
-kgj
I don't know how far the brazilian gov. is really worried with technology. They simply don't give a shit to the federal universitis or even the education here wich the public one is the worse.
What about the rest of that huge and scenic country?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
http://www.sea-launch.com/
This is a joint venture between Boeing, a Russian firm, a Norwegian firm, and a Ukrainian firm to launch satellites from a mobile platform (currently located in the port of Long Beach). The mobile platform is moved out to the equator along with a control boat and the satellite it launched.
The word you need is (apparently) "Caramba".
I don't have a sig.
If only Brazil could manage to use all this ingenuity and excellence to find a way for their police death squads, and professional hired killers to stop murdering and torturing their street children (aged between 5 to 18 years). Considering that there are estimated between 7 to 17 million children living on their streets, one would think that they would look at the ground occasionally whilst they reach for the stars.
"More than 18% of Brazil's population is illiterate, and 35% of children between ages 7 and 15 are not enrolled in school. In addition, with the exception of Haiti and Guatemala, malnutrition is more prevalent in Brazil than in any other Latin American or Caribbean nation (UNICEF, 1996b). According to official government statistics, 1,000 children die from hunger and malnutrition each day in Brazil. Moreover, Brazil's infant mortality rate in 1993 was 52 per 1,000 live births, one of the highest in Latin America and exceeded only by Peru (88) and Bolivia (98). In the poorest regions of the country and in impoverished areas near industrial centers, 10% of the children are expected to die before they reach 5 years of age (Martins, 1993)." Link here
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for space travel, and I don't agree that the "solve our Earth problems" first applies to first world countries, but surely a third world country like Brazil could at the very least reform their murder state before embarking on a space program.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
With the exception of the Shuttle and some sounding rockets, the launch vehicle market has been privatized for years. If you want a Delta or Atlas launch, you negotiate a contract with Boeing or Lockheed-Martin, not NASA.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
He's already pretty much recouped the money from that already via the Ansari prize and Richard "I can make money off that" Branson's interest, so expect Burt Rutan, designer extraordinaire to take the cash flow from that and the follow-up projects (space mini-buses) and make maybe a fibreglass kit build-in-your-garage Shuttle replacement or a LEO commuter plane that flings out a space-bus/space-truck at apogee while amortising the cost with Dallas-to-Europe or New-York-to-Australia passengers on the launch vehicle.
Speaking of Branson, the whole SpaceShipOne experimental program so far has cost less than one single regular passenger jet. I'm expecting Richard to notice that and wonder if Burt can turn his hand to larger aircraft, and sponsor him to do so. It wouldn't shock me to see Burt slash the cost of an airliner and make it intrinsically safer, more economical and more visually interesting all in one hit. I'd expect him to start with a cargo plane and work out, but I think there's room for an immense amount of cross-pollination between his air-breathers and what he's learned from his space work.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Yeah? Well that's one more country that doesn't want to be dependent on Virgin Galactic I guess. Think Brandon will be interested in launching science projects? Or is tourism that much more profitable?
"Will NASA slowly decline in relevance?"
As a taxpayer - God I hope so.
Stuff that matters.
As you said, NASA's focus should be on research. Sending a load to orbit is a trucking job best left to private companies. Each time NASA launches a commercial or military satellite (that is, not a science mission), they waste money twice:
A NASA focusing on science would allow a private launch industry to take off (literally) and decrease the cost of access to orbit per kilogram. Which in turn would make science missions cheaper. Everyone wins.
So why doesn't NASA just do this? Because they inherited an army of 20.000 engineers from the Appolo program, and like in every bureaucracy, feeding the troops and sustaining the status quo takes precedence over the Good of Mankind. It's only human to want to keep one's job. Meanwhile, the space program is dead.
--
Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
This has been one of the very few reasonable postings on this matter. Most of the rest are plain non sense (NASA going out of business ppfffft!) or nationalistic brazilian whinings...
I remember reading on a site about the origins of Baikonur, and there were other aspect in the choice of the Kazakh desert.
Since Baikonur was planned to be an ICBM firing range (for testing new rockets), the soviets needed a clear path where some radio beacons would be installed to guide the rockets during its 8000km flight. They could have chosen to build the complex west of the caspian, but that would have prevented them from installing the radio guidance system properly (which ironically became obsolete when they started to use inertial systems).
Another aspect was soil composition, the soviet military though they could dig the soil as a flame deflector
There's an article about the origins of Baikonur here.
GPG 0x1B479C78
so nyah!
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
This may be an excellent _first step_ for Brazil, but both India and China have well established space programs already.
You are misinformed, sir. The Brazilian space program is a *very* underfunded remnant of the military dictatorship regime that governed Brazil *with American support* for twenty or thirty years. Overall, your view is a common, prejudiced one that "poor countries" should not develop technologies *just because* of that poverty. Well, welcome to earth, many countries act as they want, not as the US (govt or people) want.
should't the job of NASA be primarily to lead the way into new ideas and approaches in the aviation field and subsequently be a regulating body over these?
I should come as no surprise that a government agency takes more $$$ and more time to accomplish something that commercial companies can do. Maybe NASA should be outsourcing their earth orbit operations and focusing on larger and further things....
just my two cents worth....
Veni Vidi Vici
Sao Luis, Brazil, October 24 (UPI) -- Brazil launched its first rocket in the space, one feat that it came only 14 months later that its program of the space devastated for one has caused an accident mortal of the cushion of the launching. The officers brazilian of the space are waiting that a flight of successful test of the rocket helps to rebound of the program of the space of nation's of the last accident of year's where many of superior scientists and the staff of the space of Brazil's had been killed when a rocket fundiu above in the center of Alcantara during liftoff. Venue for the missions would also help Brazil to promote ideal Alcantara as one future multinationals, as its proximity to the equator -- inside of a pair of the degrees -- makes for more easy launchings in the space. The land is moved more quickly in the equator. The vehicles need consequently less pushed to start in the space, being allowed that carregue more load in the place of the additional fuel.
Brazil's possible nuclear capability. It is likely that this capability means that Brazil is capable of delivering a nuclear payload a much longer distance than either Iran or North Korea.
I am not claiming that Brazil should be lumped in with either of these two nations, however it is an interesting opportunity to test a dual purpose launch vehicle and perhaps reflect the first of the 'developing' countries probable intercontinental capabilities.
Given recent trade tensions between Brazil and the USA I have no doubt that this is turning a few heads in the commerce / state department.
Does it take a load off of them to pursue bigger endeavors, or will NASA slowly decline in relevance?
:-)
Sort of like how other delivery companies caused the USPS to decline? (ignore for a moment the monopoly given the USPS...
At most, NASA may more tightly focus its efforts, but at the end of the day NASA and private companies will serve different customers and different missions/purposes.
Not only will private companies be unable to compete with NASA at its own game, they don't want to do what NASA is doing. I can certianly see NASA subcontracting a lot of its current work to other leaner companies in the future (much like USPS/FEDEX).
I doubt, however, that NASA will go unfunded - simply for defense purposes. If it weren't for our reliance on satellite and other technology supported by and invented by NASA it would not be 1/100th the organization it is. Some of this will get farmed out, but the secret nature and size of some of these missions (huge, multi-ton satellite hauling and repair) precludes commercial involvement at the beginning, but this will become less so as companies are able to compete for lucrative government contracts.
So, a slight change in focus, perhaps, but this is not NASA's undoing.
-Adam
Sorry, but this isn't the first successful Brazilian's rocket launch. Brazil has already developed several rockets, the one reported today being just a more advanced model that will be exported to ESA in the future. You may access the following URL (in portuguese, use Google's translator): http://www.aeb.gov.br/comunicacao/textos/default.a sp?cod_tipo=1&cod_texto=420
The closest Argentina gets to the equator is about 22 degrees south (not much closer than the south of Florida), whereas Brazil's launch center is two degrees from the equator.
See charts for twitter trends on Trendistic
"A space program" is not the same as NASA's space program necessarily.
The space launch industry is a great generator of CASH. If Brazil gets into the game it gets:
1. Money
2. Proven technological reputation (which then allows them to prove that they are good places to outsource to)
3. Competitiveness in the global arena on the basis of research and technology
These are the hallmarks of development and great steps in improving the economic and educational state of the country.
Yes Brazil has very serious problems, but this is a positive development not necessarily the waste you envision.
Uhm... sorry, but in reality when it comes to space technology the US of A has always shit in other countries faces...please check the newspapers or go to the library
Hey, they're a bigger threat than Iraq was before the invasion and it's not as far to drive. Plus the scenery is better. We should've invaded those pesky Canadians first, they could deliver WMD's into the states in their sneaky submarine. Then go after Brazil second. Secure this part of the world before we start dorking around on the other side of the planet.
Why not? We can invent an imminent threat from any country we want, why settle for the dirty, crapass countries half-way around the world? The facts have no bearing on this administration, so let's invade the countries with the best looking women first.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
You certainly dont read the articles you link to! The death squads you cite are from the 90's and earlier (when US led dictatorial regime was in place). So their current success does have nothing to do with the massacres. Besides, your argument is fscked up.
Dude. You forgot the most important thing. Brazilian women are without a doubt, as a culture, some of the most perfect specimines of amazing beauty on earth. They invented the Brazilian Wax, for crying out loud! Remember to double-bag your equipment, though.
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
This is a misundestood way of thinking. Now, being cosmopolitan, a normal citzen of the world. Why should someone (country) think about research and development when there are places and people on "earth" (imagine the whole earth as one country) that dont have quality of life and suffer whit a lot of problems like you mentioned. So, shouldnt we have waited to every place in earth to have no social issues before we headed to the moon? Dont think so. :)
Obs: Im brazilian
Aryabhata was launched by the Russians. There's a big difference between building a satellite and having a space programme.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Brazil is strong investing in technology researches and in educating more people about the importance/coolness of scientific research.
Last week, there was the Week of Science and Technology, which was a week dedicated to show and talk to general public about many topics over technology, and happened in many universities all over the country. There was more than 2000 events going on this week. I personally attended to a 2-day event at my city about biotechnology, bioethic and stem cells).
At the same week, there was the 2nd Open Source Week on the University of Rio de Janeiro, and the Coding Week on University of São Paulo. Next wednesday a total eclipse of moon will be visible from Brazil, and the government even set up a site about it called Brazil, have a look at the sky, where they tell the exact moments of the eclipse's beggining and ending, how to see the phenomenon/take photos, and other interesting things.
It is not a surprise that they scheduled the rocket launch to the end of this exciting week.
Sorry, this sig is beneath your current threshold
... I, for one, welcome our new, maraca-shaking overlords.
the shuttle program is obviously in trouble and there needs to be a cheaper way to get to space... brazil is using common sense by going with rockets, but nasa can get hop-skip-LEAP ahead of them if they start researching the use of space elevators constructed with carbon nanofibers.
Israel has had LEO capability for about a decade using their Shavit launcher. Moreover because of where Israel is they have to launch TO THE WEST which requires a bigger than normal booster and a more complex launch profile.
You are right 50% and wrong 50%. Yes Brazil helps a little bit the Federal Universitys and our free education is still poor. Now you are wrong, because we have a great people, we want to build, to conquer and have new tecnology. A great example is e-vote. We have a PERFECT e-vote system, rare in "most developed" countrys like USA. I believe in Brazil, I feel sad sometimes because corrupt politics, crazy people and other things. But believe man, we are growing.
Sorry for the broken English
xactly, but that post came from the country where is a privilege not to go out of it, even for members of The House or other politicianns ;)
BTW: it's "ay caramba!" not "ay carrumba", spelled "hai kahramba" you morons...
Carlos Niebla
It really pisses me off when people from America which is the most protectionist of all the nations in the world talk of free trade.
Any production has two inputs capital and labour and one output goods. Now Americans want free movement of capital and goods but not of labour. Thats just hypocritical. I would say if you want free trade remove all visa requirements. If you want your companies to be able to go and invest in any country and sell goods from any country than people from any country should be able to come and sell their services in your country. If you cant handle that then shut the fuck up about free trade
**Life is too short to be serious**
OOOhhh you're alright , I'm brazilian too , but as we can see , the technology developped here is more worryed with some strutural visible problems. I heard a someone talking about an only monetary intention. It's like the cote(cotas) politics. They want to put black people or public students just to call the atention of the ONU and other economic etities just to get some fund through the ... hun ... how can I say ... human growth or desenvolviment grade ... I really don't know this one in english ... so help me ! :D
Since NASA is getting a budget increase this year...
...do you mean NASA's relevance is actually increasing?
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
I have little to say, but even less to lose by saying it.
And hasnt been for some time. All satellites put up for private enterprise are launched (typically) on Lockheed Martin (Atlas) or Boeing (Delta) launch vehicles.
"Open the pod by doors, Hal" > "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" sudo "Open the pod bay doors, Hal" > alright
IIRC the LEM had over 4000 subcontractors sending things into Lockheed for the assembly of it.
BZZZZT - you do not recall correctly. Grumman built the LEM, not Blockheed.
Brazil has uranium, smart people, and now ICBM tech. Bush shouldn't be pissing them off so much.
--
make install -not war
A not so well known company actually makes a floating platform that can launch rockets. It's heavily funded by Boeing, and advertises equatorial launches:
a ce_enterprise.shtml
http://www.sea-launch.com/
Another interesting note is that there are a lot of complaints on the net about how the US government, according to some at the behest of NASA to keep the shuttle viable, has stiffled commercial launches. Here is an interesting site discussing the affect of the laws:
http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/barriers_to_sp
Ed Barbar, President and General Manager, Furnit USA
...I guess I was wrong.
There's no mistake in my thinking, but there certainly is with your apologist views on state sanctioned murder. If you want to call yourself a citizen of the world, then why not start living up to your very MINIMAL humanitarian responsibilites and actually look after your citizens in such minor ways as not starving and murdering them. You have no right to call yourself cosmopolitan - you come from a murder state full of a majority of poor. The vast majority of your poor are not cosmopolitan, they're marked for death from their first impoverished breath. Your ruling class are merely their rich exploiters, and the lowest form of scum.
As it is, your upper class are merely parasites living off the first world's technological innovations, and feeding off the misery and labour of your underclass.
There is no reason to do both space development and social justice. Brazil could start changing in such a way that you don't murder, neglect and exploit the VAST MAJORITY of your citizens. It's not a case of one or the other, but it's certainly obvious where your country's priorities lie, and it's not with social justice.
I'd suggest that pissant specialist space projects like this only serve your industrialists and investors. You can argue "flow on effects of an improved economy" all you like, but your already existant vast tourist dollars have done nothing to change the disgraceful state of your country. Your country is a humanitarian disgrace. Your elite lines it pockets while your people are slaughtered like pigs.
The first world expects you to be able to at the very least manage to not endorse state sanctioned murder, torture and neglect of people whose only crime is to be caught under the wheels of your ruling class. We first world citizens have managed to not keep murder squads, and not have five year olds living on the streets prostituting themselves. Why doesn't your upper class get off it's fat arse and change your country for the better. Fix your murder state, AND get a space program - now that would be progress, instead of rationalising your indifference or trying to blur the issue by saying that no country call solve all it's social ills.
I'm not suggesting Brazil create a Utopia, but at the very least, your country could raise itself out of savagery.
Unless of course, you're too busy locking your doors and filling your pockets with tourist money and dreaming of space industry money, while your country's children die in your streets.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
You should certainly develop technologies, but let's not mince words, your country has the money, it just doesn't give a flying fuck about it's poor. I mean come on. Oh, and there's no need to cry about America's invlovement with your former puppet goverment. There are other countries in the World that equally find Brazil's humanitarian record appaling. Just read any UNESCO study that takes your fancy. Of course, lucky you, that you can actually read it over the internet.
Yeah, because money is definately certain to stop murder and torture. Only if your poor get the money to buy themselves some guns. Money is definately going to make the elite stop exploiting the poor. Just Brazil's tourist dollars will help - fat chance. Brazil's rich are rolling in money and now they want more money, yeah, that will really help.
Perhaps Brazil could develop a process of creating fuel for their space rockets from rotting corpses. That way, they'd be able to get a ROI on the executions.
Everybody would be then happy - it's a win-win!
You forgot about Poland... err Japan
When are you going to admit that never reached the moon, and all those images where filmed in a Nevada desert ?, get real !
Actually the expression "ay caramba!" (note spelling) is used quite a bit in Brazil. Googling for "ay carumba", the first page got four sites in Portuguese, not a single one in Spanish.
1- Brazil don't launch a orbital rocket - only a
subortital
2 - this is a old rocket - 25 years old - a joint venture with German.
3- A orbtial launch is scheduler to 2006/2007 with
VLS launcher.
4- The base of Alcantra was severed demaged by VLS explosion in 2003 and the launch plataform still be rebuilding.
1. The Washington Times didn't report anything, It carried a UPI report.
2. Launching near the equator does not mean "much more" payload for a given amount of fuel.
3. The private U.S. space industry is more than 40 years behind NASA. SpaceShip One is an aircraft that accelerates to a few times the speed of sound and then coasts as far as it can. Except for its unusual reentry technique -- not applicable to reentry from orbit --it is no more of a legitimate spaceship than any military aircraft that can fly at similar speeds.
4. Whether or not China, India, Brazil, even Russia, have the resources needed to sustain individual manned spaceflight programs, an extensive planetary exploration program, a space station, and fund the development of launch vehicles capable of putting 100-ton payloads in LEO is debatable. The U.S. obviously has the resources, as it has already done all that. The question for the U.S. is not capacity, but desire and will. Does anyone doubt that, had the U.S. continued to fund manned space exploration at Apollo-era levels, that there would now be functioning human presences on the Moon and Mars?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
NASA won't decline in relevance. At least, not over this. So far, we haven't seen a private company or group of individuals that can launch a craft into space and send it to other planets like NASA and space agencies of other countries can do. Once they have the money to do this, then we may see a decline in relevance for NASA and other space angencies.
So sorry, youve been wacthing too much television.
And im absolutely sure that you have never been to "brasil" and only knows that "brasil" has samba and soccer and "social murder".
You and your sofisticated vocabulary about murder and social issues should get to know what really is "brasil" and the so called third world. Yes, we can develop while taking care of our social issues, that, correct if im wrong, were born because of the exploration in the past years by the so called first world, bla bla bla.
Have your first world country been an commodity exploration colony in the past 400 years??? Or you have been busy building your perfect social/cultural country whit the money that comes easier from farms far away in china or india.
Again, it nosense to afirm that a country should not develop jus because its not already developed.
And, if we have a murder state, like youve seen in fox news channel (laughs), the so called first world surely has to take the blame whit us.
I would have to say that the foreign policy attitude toward South America has pretty much been === Mexican Forign Policy + minor tweaks. And even that has been awful for the most part except during the NAFTA talks. Brazil and Argentina are very different countries than Mexico, with population bases that are larger, and potentially even more consumer demand than all of Europe.
In fact, in the next century I think you will see the overall population of South America pass that of all of Europe, and it will become strategically as significant if not more so. There are some political and economic problems on that continent, but it is substantially better off than Africa, by comparison. And both Argentina and Brazil have the talent of competent engineers and research scientists that would put them equal with any single European nation, including France, Germany, or England. Not to mention that even now Brazil is an ISS partner (minor, but it did get them a slot for an ISS service mission to put an astronaut on board, and some equipment on the ISS is of Brazilian manufacture).
One thing that might also add to this paranoia regarding Brazilian nukes: Back in the 1980's during the Cold War, Brazilian "spies" (don't laugh too hard now) discovered that the USSR had a few nukes specifically targeting São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Essentially, Brazil was relying on a deterance force by the USA to keep the nukes off their cities. I don't know if this is a problem now, and I somehow doubt that modern Russia would even consider Brazil to be a militarily important target for nukes, but it certainly made some interesting political discussions in Brazil when that news was made public. And no doubt drives some military planning discussions in Brazil.
Well, someone has to be "numero uno", or nothing will advance. If every country settled for being numbero dos, where would the innovation and advancement come from? Striving to be the best pushes technology forward, it gives people something to work towards. Sure, the US might be a little arrogant about it (ok, alot), but it gives the average citizen something to be patriotic about, which in turn makes them more supportive of advancing said technology to stay on top, which makes it easier to get funding from politicians looking for votes. If another country wants to take the lead, bring it on, it will fuel the race and push technology ahead faster than ever.
tm
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
I guess you have never heard of Sputnik? http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/sputnik/
-William
God is everything science has yet to explain.
Racism is a term that's bandied about a lot these days. While I certainly wouldn't defend the original posters aspersions on Brazilians, they are not racist aspersions, they're nationalistic. It's an important difference, even if the net result is the same.
Just to clarify the subject, I've seen a lot of wrong information out there, even at Brazilian press:
VSB-30 is a two-stage sounding rocket. It was designed to carry a 400-Kg scientific payload on a suborbital flight, with an apogee of 250 Km, and to stay above 110 Km for at least 350 seconds (microgravity environment).
Brazil is making sounding rockets since the 60s. The VSB-30 rocket is a new project and it does have some enhancements, mainly to restrict the impact area, so that it can be launched from facilities at (more populated) Europe. It's possible that it will replace the British Skylark 7 rocket for European microgravity research.
It was not a satellite launcher and there is no plan to build a ICBM from it.