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Physicists Finally Solve the Falling-Paper Problem

neutron_p writes "The so-called "falling paper" problem has long intrigued scientists. James C. Maxwell pondered the tumbling motions of playing cards in 1853. Why don't flat things fall straight down? Pieces of paper fall down, then rise into the air, then glide along, then again rise... It occurs in a seemingly chaotic manner. Now researchers at Cornell University have solved the falling paper problem by calculating the motions of a scientific journal page in flight and there were a few surprises." There's also a story in the Cornell Sun.

325 comments

  1. Yup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now they just need to solve the 8+ folds problem...

    1. Re:Yup by discordja · · Score: 5, Interesting
      --
      I stole this .sig
    2. Re:Yup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      She found special toilet paper that met these requirements and bought a roll for $85.
      $85 for a roll of toilet paper!? Man, and I thought the double-ply I bought was expensive.
    3. Re:Yup by Jonboy+X · · Score: 1

      Hehe, from the article:

      She found special toilet paper that met these requirements and bought a roll for $85.

      Wow, that must be some fancy-ass toilet paper...

      --

      "In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
    4. Re:Yup by PoopJuggler · · Score: 0

      What I would like to know is why is she hanging around places that sell rare toilet papers...

    5. Re:Yup by The+Only+Druid · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its 3/4th of a mile long, that's why its 85 bucks.

      --
      "Stumble before you crawl"
    6. Re:Yup by LilGuy · · Score: 3, Funny

      It was either pay $85 for extra credit, or do something unmentionable. Apparently she's not that easy.

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
    7. Re:Yup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1-ply pwns 2-ply. pwns i say.

    8. Re:Yup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! some cleavage! And she talks about tissues. What a babe!

    9. Re:Yup by MagicDude · · Score: 1

      (cough) Jailbait (Cough)(Cough)

    10. Re:Yup by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Probably meant for the bathroom in a clinic for certain gastronomical problems...

      Actually, it's more for areas where the janitor only comes along once a year to restock the roll. Have you ever seen a big roll in a public restroom?

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    11. Re:Yup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like the way her outfit matches her toilet paper.

    12. Re:Yup by essreenim · · Score: 1

      ..finally monkeys can be trained to sort falling cards in the air...

    13. Re:Yup by Justabit · · Score: 0

      ...So....how long is a conventional average roll of toilet paper? and come to think of it... if her roll os that long, how much time befor she needs to get a new one? (how big would the roll holder be?)

      --
      "Persistance is Fertile" - Me. I can quote myself if I want to.
  2. The site is already getting quite slow... by IversenX · · Score: 5, Informative

    better save it here for posterity :-)

    Image: The seemingly chaotic motions of this page from a scientific journal became part of a computer modeling exercise to show why flat things don't fall straight down., J. Wang and U. Pensavento/Cornell University. Copyright Physical Review Letters 2004

    The same falling-paper principles apply, the physicists believe, to naturally flat things like leaves. If they are right, Wang and Pensavento may have finally solved the mystery of why autumn leaves depart from a neighbor's tree on a windless day . . .

    . . . rise into the air . . . . . . rise again . . .

    . . . glide along . . .

    . . . and have to be raked from yards that don't contain a single tree.

    As Wang explains, "Leaves and paper fall and rise in a seeming chaotic manner. As they fall, air swirls up around their edges, which makes them flutter and tumble. Because the flow changes dramatically around the sharp edges of leaves and paper, known as flow singularity, it makes the prediction of the falling trajectory a challenge."

    Among the first scientists to be intrigued by the behavior of falling paper was Scottish physicist James C. Maxwell, who pondered the tumbling motions of playing cards in 1853. But while Maxwell was a brilliant mathematician, he lacked the today's computer-modeling techniques, not to mention access to fast, powerful computers. Wang and Pensavento put those advanced tools to good use to show why the falling trajectory of thin flat things -- and the behavior of airflow and other forces -- is not predicted by the classical aerodynamic theory.

    "There were a few surprises," Wang notes. "We found the flat paper rises on its own as it falls, which would not happen if the force due to air is similar to that on an airfoil. Instead, the force depends strongly on the coupling between the rotating and translational motions of the object."

    Wang and Pesavento also showed that the falling-paper effect is almost twice as effective for slowing an object's descent, compared with the parachute effect (that is, if an object falls straight down). And that evidently benefits trees and other plants that need to disperse seeds some distance from the point of origin. Plants with flattened seedpods also take advantage of the falling-paper effect.

    The research was funded by National Science Foundation, the U.S. Air Force Office of Scientific Research and the Packard Foundation.

    Says the professor who does not use the falling-paper effect to grade student essays and forecast their future: "What is predictable is that as the autumn leaves tumble down, they drift in particular directions, depending on the way they turn. This may explain, Wang adds, "why you are getting the leaves from your neighbor."

    Source: Cornell University

    --
    With great numbers come great responsibility!
    1. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by R.Mo_Robert · · Score: 5, Informative

      The site is already getting quite slow... better save it here for posterity :-)

      Or use the Coral cache version (remember, just appennd .nyud.net:8090 after the domain--I don't know why Slashdot doesn't do this more often): http://www.physorg.com.nyud.net:8090/news1630.html

      --
      R.Mo
    2. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by Wizzy+Wig · · Score: 1
      Wang and Pesavento also showed that the falling-paper effect is almost twice as effective for slowing an object's descent, compared with the parachute effect (that is, if an object falls straight down). And that evidently benefits trees and other plants that need to disperse seeds some distance from the point of origin. Plants with flattened seedpods also take advantage of the falling-paper effect.


      Interesting. It better explains why deciduous (hardwood) trees tend to take over the coniferous (pine forest) trees once they get a foothold than the old "oak trees out-shade pine trees" explanation.

    3. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by big+tex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know why Slashdot doesn't do this more often)

      Well, being the curious guy that I am, I tried both the original link and your coral link at the same time. (well, pretty close.)

      Funny thing is, the original link opened, slowly, but much quicker than the coral link.

      So, to get back to your question:
      Q: Why don't we coral?
      A: Because it's as effective as pigeonrank.

      --
      I think I need a new sig here.
    4. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by R.Mo_Robert · · Score: 1

      While it may not be useful for larger sites, it can definitely be useful for smaller sites--and even if it's not incredibly fast (I'm on dial-up and few things are "slow" for me), it will definitely prevent the original site from going down. And that's normally a good thing.

      --
      R.Mo
    5. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by hazem · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only problem with that is that many of those broad-leaf trees don't have seeds that are leaf-shaped. The oak has the acorn, the walnut has the... walnut, and the same with chestnuts.

      Of course, there are those cool trees with the whirly-bird seeds. I love those!

    6. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by LilGuy · · Score: 1

      You can dig up the one out of my backyard. Those damn seeds keep clogging up the pool filters. >:(

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
    7. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by Digi-John · · Score: 2, Informative

      Those whirly-bird seeds are from maple trees.

      --
      Klingon programs don't timeshare, they battle for supremacy.
    8. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 1
      The point of using CORAL on /. is not to be fast, but to spare the destination webserver the onslaught it would otherwise receive.

      Anyway, as time passes no doubt its speed will improve.

    9. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by freqres · · Score: 1

      I have a mini maple tree forest growing in my gutters every spring from those damn whirly bird seeds. They are also the biggest 'weed' problem I have in my garden. For how well those things grow I'm suprised the world hasn't been taken over by maple trees.

      --
      Rampant Ninja related crimes these days...Whitehouse is not the exception
    10. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (I'm on dial-up and few things are "slow" for me)

      If you're on dial-up, wouldn't most things be slow for you? (Confused.)

    11. Re:The site is already getting quite slow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe that (s)he means that there is not much difference between a page that loads quickly and one that loads slowly, which is why "slow" was in quotes. I also have dialup, and have the same experience. Many so-called "slow" sites don't load any more slowly for me than fast sites. The difference isn't noticable. If I were on DSL or cable modem, the difference would be much more noticable.

  3. That's my prof! by beefstu01 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Prof. Wang from TaM was my math teacher. Smart lady. She went crazy explaning the use of hyperbolic trig functions. At the time I had no idea what she was talking about, but now I see it actually has a use. Her other research is in the fields of insect flight. Looks like Calculus isn't useless after all.

    1. Re:That's my prof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you care about insect flight, sure.

    2. Re:That's my prof! by superpulpsicle · · Score: 0, Troll

      While I always admire university researches, I sure hope all these findings mount to something. On the contrary I still haven't found legit use for Calculus.

    3. Re:That's my prof! by Mochatsubo · · Score: 1

      Have you caught a thrown ball lately?

      You've found a use for differential calculus!

      -mim

    4. Re:That's my prof! by sinnfeiner1916 · · Score: 1, Funny

      this is slashdot. and that's a sport.

      --
      The More Laws, the less Justice --Marcus Tullius Cicero
    5. Re:That's my prof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nearly all laws of nature are differential equations. Starting from Newtons F=dp/dt, Maxwells equations for electrodynamics, Schrödinger's equation in the quantum mechanics, Einsteins field equations in the general theory of relativity, ...

      In fact you can't even define a simple actual velocity (not an average velocity) whithout using a diffential.

    6. Re:That's my prof! by torako · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It strikes me that you believe that calculus is useless in the first place... it's probably the single most useful field of mathematics: You need calculus to

      describe and find solutions to motion problems

      maximize or minimize functions (e.g. optimizing the cost of producing something)

      talk about any relationship between two variables that's close to zero

      straighten out complicated functions to handle them with computers (e.g. Taylor-series)

      I could go on and on about that.. Come on!

    7. Re:That's my prof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brian Johnson: I'm a fu**ing idiot 'cause I can't make a lamp?
      John Bender: No, you're a genius 'cause you can't make a lamp.
      Brian Johnson: What do you know about trigonometry?
      John Bender: I could care less about trigonometry.
      Brian Johnson: Bender, did you know without trigonometry there would be no engineering?
      John Bender: Without lamps there'd be no light.

    8. Re:That's my prof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would you price a European call option on a stock without Calculus? While this might not be directly useful for you, it surely affects you as your bank's bank is doing this daily.

    9. Re:That's my prof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wad the damned thing up and propel it towards the nearest waste paper basket.
      Problem solved!

    10. Re:That's my prof! by Pope · · Score: 1

      Uh, have you ever used the grenade trigger for the rocket launcher in UT?

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    11. Re:That's my prof! by drxenos · · Score: 1

      I once won a 6-pack in a bet with my hillbilly father when I was in college. He said that the Calculus I was learning was useless to the "everyday man." I bet him I could prove that Calculus was useful to a farmer: Given a length of fencing, Calculus is the only way--other than trial and error--to determine what diminsions will yield the largest area.

      --


      Anonymous Cowards suck.
    12. Re:That's my prof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given a length of fencing, Calculus is the only way--other than trial and error--to determine what diminsions will yield the largest area.

      ???
      The largest area for a given length of fence is a circle.
      The circumference (perimeter length) of a circle is c=2*pi*r, and its area is a=pi*(r^2).
      Diddling with the equations algebraically (not using calculus), we come up with a=(c^2)/(4*pi), where c is the length of fence.

      If you want to confine your field to rectangular areas, the equation is even more simple, as the maximum area is a square: a=(length/4)^2.

    13. Re:That's my prof! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If geeks did more sports we would probably get some more realistic FPS games. Concerning the character motion, most of them seem to be still on the level of "Gianna Sisters".

    14. Re:That's my prof! by drxenos · · Score: 1

      As typical on Slashdot, you are reading in my post what is not there to suit your argument. You are assuming completely ideal conditions. I was not.

      --


      Anonymous Cowards suck.
  4. NewsFlash!! by thegoofeedude · · Score: 3, Funny

    Paper is affected by air as it falls! Astounding. ;-)

    1. Re:NewsFlash!! by xsupergr0verx · · Score: 3, Funny

      The real news is that they actually found an interesting use for those "pages of a scientific journal."

      --

      Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
    2. Re:NewsFlash!! by rthille · · Score: 1

      More than that, air is affected by paper falling thru it. And around and around it goes...

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    3. Re:NewsFlash!! by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 5, Funny
      The real news is that they actually found an interesting use for those "pages of a scientific journal."
      There was a joke among physicists - I first heard it in the early 1990s- that said that a certain physics journal (I believe it was Physical Review Letters, or "PRL") was growing so quickly that its expansion was actually faster than the speed of light. There was, however, no violation of relativity, because no information was being conveyed.

      --Mark
      --
      "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
    4. Re:NewsFlash!! by Robocoastie · · Score: 1

      LOL and to think they needed "research money" to come to this conclusion! ****from article below**** "The research was funded by National Science Foundation, the U.S. Air Force Office of Scientific Research and the Packard Foundation. Says the professor who does not use the falling-paper effect to grade student essays and forecast their future: "What is predictable is that as the autumn leaves tumble down, they drift in particular directions, depending on the way they turn. This may explain, Wang adds, "why you are getting the leaves from your neighbor." ****end of article quote*** This project is as ridiculous as the one I read about last week where researchers "proved" that cats stress. == No duh Sherlocks they coulda just called any of us cat owners and asked us and saved a heck of a lot of money and time. Industrial labor working people of the world: those are the customers of the expensive overpriced vehicle you contributed to build. Bow down to the greatness of their education. "oh we quiver in awe of your genius great holders of expensive pieces of paper..."

  5. Re:Umm... by M51DPS · · Score: 5, Funny

    air currents? Dumbass scientists with nothing better to live for than proving evolution and why pieces of paper fall slowly. Why not cure cancer you retards?

    You know, when they finally do find the cure for cancer through a process that involves falling paper, I bet someone is going to feel awfully silly.

  6. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It has little to do with air currents, I suppose, since this behavior is exhibited even in a room with no (detectable) wind.

  7. Bah. by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny


    This is just a rehash of an old study showing why open-faced peanut butter sandwiches always land face down.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Bah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "open-faced peanut butter sandwiches"

      You mean slices of bread with peanut butter spread on them?

      'cause, you know, a sandwich can't be open-faced because it's a sandwich...

    2. Re:Bah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Hey moran, next time read the definition before referring to it.

      sand-wich
      n.
      • Two or more slices of bread with a filling such as meat or cheese placed between them.
      • A partly split long or round roll containing a filling.
      • One slice of bread covered with a filling
    3. Re:Bah. by apankrat · · Score: 1

      Funny enough this seems to be an international joke.

      The Russian variation, which dates back to who know when, calls for a plain butter sandwich. The outcome is the same though :)

      --
      3.243F6A8885A308D313
    4. Re:Bah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The german version uses marmelade :)

    5. Re:Bah. by drxenos · · Score: 1

      Would an open-faced slice of buttered toast, tied to the back of a cat, be a perpetual motion machine?

      --


      Anonymous Cowards suck.
    6. Re:Bah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Klingon version uses Gagh.
      The Cardassian version uses ground-up Bajoran paste.
      There is no Vulcan version, because Vulcans consider bread to be illogical.

  8. Paper! by The-Bus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Has anyone combined this with other falling-object problems?

    For example, if one butters one side of the paper, will it still land face down, even if it's floating about?

    Since cats fall on their feet, what happens if you wrap playing cards on each of their legs? Will their happy flight downwards be interrupted by randomly flying limbs?

    What if you wrap the cat in a piece of paper that has been formed to make a Moebius strip, butter the other side of the animal, then tie it together to another cat? I suspect this may be the way to create time travel or a perpetual motion machine.

    I hereby ask everyone to funnel funds towards this dynamic Cat, Toast, and Paper Research. I approximate we have about 4 years to prepare to salute our new Paper Machie Strawberry Jelly Cat Overlords.

    --

    Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

    1. Re:Paper! by techno-vampire · · Score: 5, Funny
      What if you wrap the cat in a piece of paper that has been formed to make a Moebius strip, butter the other side of the animal, then tie it together to another cat? I suspect this may be the way to create time travel or a perpetual motion machine.

      It's probably been asked before, but this gave me an idea: take a long strip of bread, butter one side of it, twist it and connect the ends to make a mobius strip, then drop it. What happens?

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    2. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its Funny. Think.

    3. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PETA calls

    4. Re:Paper! by slice2 · · Score: 1

      I, for one, welcome our new Paper Machie [sic] Strawberry Jelly Cat Overlords!

    5. Re:Paper! by sheetsda · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      This has been happening a lot lately, I suspect the moderators feel they're being ripped off when they moderate someone funny because being moderated funny doesn't add to karma. Just a guess.

    6. Re:Paper! by xbytor · · Score: 2, Funny

      That should read "Strawberry Jelly Hypo-allergenic Cat Overlords". Funding committees are very picky about things like that.

    7. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More evidence that throwing money at our education system isn't working

    8. Re:Paper! by iDrifter · · Score: 1

      With toast it seems to always land butter side down. If you butter both sides of a piece of toast, it will hover in a state of quantum indecision.

      --
      This message was done on 100% recycled electrons.
    9. Re:Paper! by mitchus · · Score: 1

      LOL! Love it!

    10. Re:Paper! by mx.2000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It lands on the butter side, since it has only one side.

    11. Re:Paper! by EnormousTooth · · Score: 2, Informative

      The method described buttered the bread before making it into a mobius strip.

      --
      I don't use Emacs; it uses me.
    12. Re:Paper! by pyrrhonist · · Score: 1
      With toast it seems to always land butter side down. If you butter both sides of a piece of toast, it will hover in a state of quantum indecision.

      I just tested this, and no, it still lands butter side down.

      I was unable to determine which buttered side it landed on, however.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    13. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      while it's funny it's also interesting. Come on, i know you're dying to see the outcomes of said experiments. It also circumvents my funny-4 offset, which is ok in this case.

    14. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Logically, you would be compelled to butter both sides. To do otherwise would show that science is not infallible (double negative, but I like the sound) and would anhilate all existance.

      Hmm...

    15. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      men in white outfits bring you away

    16. Re:Paper! by Goonface · · Score: 1

      It would land on it's one and only side which is buttered half its length.

    17. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the cat has no legs does it ever land or just hover a few inches off the ground?

    18. Re:Paper! by ajs · · Score: 1

      For those who got lost, there, let me recap the parent's sources:

      "Has anyone combined this with other falling-object problems?"

      A reference to this story.

      "if one butters one side of the paper [...] Since cats fall on their feet [...]"

      A reference to the ever-so-often-handed around buttered cat story. It's been cited dozens of times, but I've never found a good attribution. The earliest reference I can find is here:

      http://w2s.co.uk/timo/jokes/joke1a.html

      The person claims to have been the author, and another reference cites this as coming from the Usenet Oracle, so perhaps he sent this as an answer to an Oracle question? I first came across it when it was posted to Usenet under the Babylon 5 newsgroup here:

      http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=01BB6744.D02A 70E0%40BBARRETT.SPEEDLINK.COM&output=gplain

    19. Re:Paper! by lawpoop · · Score: 4, Funny

      It lands on the outside.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    20. Re:Paper! by imaginate · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't know the answers to your questions, but check this out:

      cat falling in zero g

      It's a video of a cat on the "vomit comit". Most amusing. Get it before it's /.ed!

    21. Re:Paper! by Jonas+the+Bold · · Score: 4, Funny

      What if you wrap the cat in a piece of paper that has been formed to make a Moebius strip, butter the other side of the animal, then tie it together to another cat? I suspect this may be the way to create time travel or a perpetual motion machine.

      You're theory is good, except that it fails to take into account the sheer impossiblity of attaching anything to a cat.

      --
      Everything seemed to be going so nice
      'till the end of all beings punched right through the ice
    22. Re:Paper! by Tobias+Luetke · · Score: 1, Funny

      Fascinating idea, Imagine a beowulf cluster of this.

    23. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Unfortunately, you can't butter two sides of a one-sided object. If you were truly compelled to do so, you would be driven mad. It would be like putting someone who is compelled to sit in corners into a round room. It's just cruel. Also, science has long been proven fallible. Scientists love to prove accepted theory wrong. Also, everyone of true scientific bent knows that the way to 'anhilate' all 'existance' would be to throw a pessimist and an optimist into a locked room.

    24. Re:Paper! by andreyw · · Score: 1

      Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

    25. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More than that, funny moderations usually _hurt_ your karma - if 2 people think your post is funny and one thought it was flamebait, you don't get any positive karma for the funny mods, but you do get negative karma for the flamebait mod.

      And I read the claim yesterday that as of the latest Slashcode release, down moderations now count twice as much as up moderations towards your overall karma score. Wish I could find the link to the fellow's journal who discusses this.

      Moderation is inherently imperfect, we can accept that, but putting in all these abstruse rules just seems to make it worse. Things were better when we just had plain numerical karma. Sure, some people would karma whore, but so what? And the change from capped-at-50 to these vague descriptors just made it so the editors can change the rules on us behind our backs without us knowing. I want a straightforward, honest moderation and karma system, with no mod-bombing by editors. If somebody is crapflooding, fine, ban their IP subnet, but no bans for downmoderations, no matter how strongly you disagree with their opinions.

      Okay, posting all this anonymously for obvious reasons, but I am a long-time and vocal member of the Slashdot community. We are the people who make all the content that's worthwhile here, and I do wish the editors would take our opinions into mind when they make these kinds of changes

    26. Re:Paper! by Igmuth · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, as long as you don't observe the sytem. As soon as you do so, the waveform collapses, and the toasts hit the floor.

    27. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's the ASPCA when you need 'em.

    28. Re:Paper! by menace3society · · Score: 1

      I saw this in Omni magazine, roughly the same time period. There was a contest of who could submit the most off the wall new "theory", and the cat/toast arrangement for perpetual motion won. There was a cartoon of a distressed looking cat with buttered toast strapped to its back.

      Don't remember the exact date, but you might be able to find a back issue and find the winner's name.

    29. Re:Paper! by kai.chan · · Score: 1

      Since cats fall on their feet, what happens if you wrap playing cards on each of their legs? Will their happy flight downwards be interrupted by randomly flying limbs?

      I suspect that you will have something like this.

    30. Re:Paper! by RedWizzard · · Score: 3, Informative

      WTF are you on about? If you butter one side and then make a Mobius strip it'll have one side, half buttered. Nothing complicated about it.

    31. Re:Paper! by RedWizzard · · Score: 1

      It could land on it's edge.

    32. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Of course both of the above are totally and equally correct.

      Because of Quantum.

    33. Re:Paper! by PoorCoder · · Score: 1

      I just tested this and able to determined which buttered side it landed on... Side 1: 1.25 teaspoon butter mixed with 10 drops of blue food color. Side 2: 1.25 teaspoon butter mixed with 10 drops of red food color. Now, this test is so top-sercet; I cannot tell you which side it landed! Sorry, dudes.

    34. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Wrong. Use a stapler.

    35. Re:Paper! by Doctor+O · · Score: 1

      FWIW, that's a copy of an old CompuServe forum message, so it's not really a usenet reference. ;)

      --
      Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
    36. Re:Paper! by drawfour · · Score: 2, Funny

      A most interesting thing happened to me the other day. I dropped a buttered piece of bread and it landed on the non-buttered side! Come to think of it, it was the same day the Red Sox won the World Series...

    37. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a topologist this should be modded +5 Funny, I am honestly crying with laughter. Beautiful.

    38. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It lands on the unbuttered side too! MY FUCKING HEAD'S GONNA EXPLODE!

    39. Re:Paper! by Zugok · · Score: 1

      I think it 'un-mobius strips' itself and lands on the butter side down. I am sure if bread had fingers, it would give you the fingers.

      --
      "I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
    40. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best thread in MONTHS.

    41. Re:Paper! by 0zymandias · · Score: 0

      >>You're theory is good, except that it fails to take into account the sheer impossiblity of attaching anything to a cat.

      Anything besides a lime helmet that is.

      --
      "Danke daß Du mich gemolken hast" said the German cow.
    42. Re:Paper! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Floyd you sick puppy, Your other white meat is not a cat.

    43. Re:Paper! by iphayd · · Score: 1

      Correct. The real question is what happens if you take a long strip of bread, form a loop, then butter the inside.

    44. Re:Paper! by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

      Must have been on the same day Satan appeared to me and asked to trade my ice skates for a few souls.
      Anybody intrested in Bill Gates' soul?

  9. Re:Umm... by beefstu01 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not sure that researchers from Theoritical and Applied Mechanics can do much for cancer research.

    Remember, Civil Engineers make the targets, Mechanical Engineers (or TAM nerds) make the bombs.

  10. Not quite what I expected by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

    I'd thought that if the page weren't straight up and down, you'd get lift on the leading edge, causing that edge to rise up, slowing the fall until it gets high enough to stall. When I RTFA, it said that the page's rotation was enough to change the direction from clean drop to a sideways motion. Go know.

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
  11. Usefulness by ornil · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article says that the slowing-down effect for paper-like objects is much larger than normal "parachuting" effect. I wonder if this could be used in some way for parachutes.

    1. Re:Usefulness by 26199 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Probably not, since it's unpredictable... which could translate to, say, random 30ft drops. Which would be rather unpleasant if you happened to be 29ft from the ground.

      You'd need a parachute to deploy when you got close to the ground ;-)

    2. Re:Usefulness by Aglassis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This effect isn't completely new (at least I don't think so). The space shuttles would roll and yaw back and forth a few degrees on reentry to slow down faster. If you ignore the horizontal speed of the spacecraft, this is somewhat similar to a piece of paper falling (but obviously more controlled--sometimes). Seems to me that the two items might be conceptually related. That being the case, I wouldn't be suprised if we saw a new style of atmospheric slowdown in future space probes.

      --
      Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
    3. Re:Usefulness by PerpetualMotion · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's called a hand glider. Unfortunatly, it cannot be packed into a backpack and deployed after falling 1,000 feet out of a plane.

      Kites do not work well as parachutes.

    4. Re:Usefulness by UniverseIsADoughnut · · Score: 2, Funny

      Parachutes made of paper?

    5. Re:Usefulness by JeanPaulBob · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wonder if this could be used in some way for parachutes.

      Step 1: Flatten self into a 1mm-thick sheet.

      Step 2... Uh, actually, we seem to be running into a problem at step 1.

    6. Re:Usefulness by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it'd be great. You'd just sort of slowly and gently touch down on the ground...

      Or about 20 feet from the ground you'd flip up and over, and slam into the ground at about 80 mph.

      It'd be the MS Windows of parachutes.

    7. Re:Usefulness by 3770 · · Score: 5, Funny


      The flattening is not the problem. That will be achieved. Timing is the problem.

      You need to flat yourself _before_ you hit the ground.

      --
      The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
    8. Re:Usefulness by renoX · · Score: 2, Informative

      > normal "parachuting" effect.

      But I suspect that what they call the normal "parachuting" effect is what occurs with round parachute, now modern parachute are wing-like so they are more efficient..
      Now I'm not sure because of the imprecise wording of the articles :-(

    9. Re:Usefulness by 3770 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are thinking about the first possible application which would be to somehow attach yourself to one huge piece of flat material and somehow use that to slow your fall.

      But if you on the other hand had a parachute which somehow was made up of thousands or maybe millions of small pieces of flat objects which could rotate independently you might achieve the same effect, and the random falls would average out.

      It is also reasonable to believe that the smaller the object the smaller the random drops.

      My imagined parachute above might not work. But can you prove it? It shows that there are applications of this which we might not fully understand after reading an article on the Internet.

      But then again, maybe you already thought about this and was just making a joke.

      --
      The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
    10. Re:Usefulness by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 1

      Small model rockets use a 'streamer' instead of a parachute. It is a piece of paper an inch or two wide and a couple feet long.

    11. Re:Usefulness by Haydn+Fenton · · Score: 1

      I think I can solve this tedious problem;

      Step 1: Flatten [others] into a 1mm-thick sheet.

      Step 2: ????

      Step 3: Profit!

    12. Re:Usefulness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easily, as this experiment shows: First, jump out of an airplane without a parachute, measuring how long it takes you to fall. This preparatory step will also flatten you sufficiently for phase two. Now jump and measure again, and you'll see you fall less than half as fast! Phase three? Profit!

    13. Re:Usefulness by aixou · · Score: 1, Informative

      The 'streamer' is there so you can see where the rocket landed even if you're far away, not to slow down the descent. Usually the streamers are made with a metallic color so they reflect light. This has actually helped me find my model rocket a couple times after I blasted it off and it landed a quarter mile away.

      To slow down the descent you still want a good ol fashioned parachute to come out.

    14. Re:Usefulness by marktaw.com · · Score: 1

      The effect he's describing is actually commonly used with model rockets, that often have streamers that deploy in mid air rather than parachutes so that they don't get carried away on the wind.

    15. Re:Usefulness by mindstrm · · Score: 1

      Just curious..

      Do you mean a hang glider?

    16. Re:Usefulness by ajna · · Score: 4, Interesting
      if you on the other hand had a parachute which somehow was made up of thousands or maybe millions of small pieces of flat objects which could rotate independently

      Again your caveat about not fully understanding the issues involved after reading a single non-technical article applies, but I got the impression that the phenomenon requires rotational and translational motion to be decoupled. Thus rotating independently may well be insufficient to allow for the effect of falling slower than via "parachuting".
    17. Re:Usefulness by Wizzy+Wig · · Score: 2, Informative
      The article says that the slowing-down effect for paper-like objects is much larger than normal "parachuting" effect. "

      We already have "flat parachutes," they're called air foils - and, yes, they do provide a slower descent than a penumbral parachute.

    18. Re:Usefulness by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 1

      Not true, many model rockets are brightly colored themselves and have a non-reflective streamer but no parachute. The streamer flaps around and reduces the terminal velocity of the rocket significantly (probably due to effects discussed in this article), so it doesn't break into a million pieces when it hits the ground. It doesn't slow the rocket as much as a parachute, which can be an advantage on windy days where a rocket hanging from a parachute could drift for miles. But it does slow the descent; if you launch without one you're almost certain to end up with a broken rocket.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    19. Re:Usefulness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he means his dick, dipshit!

    20. Re:Usefulness by wildsurf · · Score: 1

      Or lack of parachutes, for that matter. I'd like to see a skydiving competition where divers try to minimize their descent speed using this effect; i.e. alternately dive headfirst to attain maximum speed, then glide in an arc (converting vertical speed to lateral speed) and see how much this can slow the overall descent.

      Also, I wonder what the minimum equipment would be (e.g. small wings) to transiently slow to zero vertical speed? If this could be perfectly controlled, one could land without a parachute at all (although the lateral speed might be prohibitive).

      --
      Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
    21. Re:Usefulness by Nightreaver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dont' know... I'd say that it's the re-thickening process at step 3 that's the problem...

    22. Re:Usefulness by mfg · · Score: 1

      See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3112095.stm for something along those lines - skydiving across the English Channel.

    23. Re:Usefulness by zapp · · Score: 1

      The reason paper slows so well is the very small downard pull it is experiencing, and the fact that the downward and upward forces are pretty nearly uniformly distributed over the mass.

      By attaching cables or the like to it and adding substantial mass and downward pull, you destroy the uniformity...

      --
      no comment
    24. Re:Usefulness by fbjon · · Score: 2, Funny

      It shows that there are applications of this which we might not fully understand after reading an article on the Internet.

      Hey, we don't even have to read the article in order to not fully understand it!

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    25. Re:Usefulness by mdfst13 · · Score: 3, Funny

      "You need to flat yourself _before_ you hit the ground."

      I think that the bigger problem is that you would want to *unflat* yourself afterwards...

      Of course, if you could do that you could probably do without the parachute.

    26. Re:Usefulness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      No, he means his dick, dipshit!

      I'm surprised you were able to describe what he was talking about so clearly with it in your mouth.

    27. Re:Usefulness by BarryJacobsen · · Score: 1

      Of course, if you could do that you could probably do without the parachute.

      Actually, I'd probably still go with the painless method of a parachute. Even if I could be unflattened, I doubt they could make it no longer hurt when every part of me meets every other part of me.

    28. Re:Usefulness by Doctor+O · · Score: 1

      Okay, just tell me how you mechanically keep the single flat objects connected while still allowing them to float freely (i.e. in *any* direction). I'd love to see this in action.

      Hm. Somehow I have to think of how many Rubik's Magic I bought just because people would almost immediately break them if you handed one to them. Obviously this Rubik guy didn't solve the practical problem very well. (BTW, the solutions on that page are correct, but I'd wonder if anyone could follow *those* instructions on how to do it. )

      --
      Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
    29. Re:Usefulness by 3770 · · Score: 1


      Maybe like the gyros in a gyro compass?

      Maybe they shouldn't even be connected to a frame mechanically. Maybe they have a little cage that they float around in with certain properties. Maybe the cage spins around?

      Maybe these things are really really small? Almost to small to see with the naked eye?

      Maybe they aren't even flat. But what we learned from the dropping paper will help us figure out another shape which will work for this.

      I'm not saying that I know how it should be done. Only that I don't know that it can't be done.

      --
      The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
    30. Re:Usefulness by flyingV · · Score: 1

      but I got the impression that the phenomenon requires rotational and translational motion to be decoupled.

      You mean coupled?

    31. Re:Usefulness by biobogonics · · Score: 1

      The article says that the slowing-down effect for paper-like objects is much larger than normal "parachuting" effect. I wonder if this could be used in some way for parachutes.

      This failed miserably on a recent episode of "Mythbusters" because it was impossible to control the motion of a sheet of plywood held overhead.

    32. Re:Usefulness by ajna · · Score: 1

      No, I don't. I mean decoupled.

    33. Re:Usefulness by LordIvan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This effect isn't completely new (at least I don't think so).

      Absolutely correct. The effect has been around since the dawn of time.
      The theories presented are of course a more recent vintage... :)

    34. Re:Usefulness by Anonymous+Freak · · Score: 1

      heh.. Discovery Channel's "Mythbusters" did a segment on something like this. They heard an urban legend that a construction worker was holding onto a piece of 4x8 (foot) plywood, and fell off a 10-story building. The myth was that he managed to hold onto the board and it acted a little like a parachute to ease his landing.

      They easily disproved it. (They used a dummy, measured how hard he hit the ground alone, and how hard when his hands were glued to a piece of plywood. He hit HARDER with the plywood, as it made him land on his feet, which crumpled him and smacked his head into the ground with little cushioning, whereas dropping by himself, the dummy hit 'flat', absorbing the shock over his whole body. Still too much shock to survive, but less than with the plywood.)

      --
      Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
      The purpose of that site was not known.
    35. Re:Usefulness by Doctor+O · · Score: 1

      I don't have a clue how gyros would help here.

      Jokes aside, since I read your other post (the one I replied to), I wonder how it could be done. I suppose that the "paper" would have to have no limitations on how to move to get the full lift effect, but maybe this premise is broken, maybe your suggestion about the very small "papers" can help work it out, but still an interesing problem.

      Any engineers here who can comment on the subject? I'm a programmer, I don't do hardware. ;)

      --
      Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
    36. Re:Usefulness by mdfst13 · · Score: 1

      "I'd probably still go with the painless method of a parachute."

      Yes, but in this case, we are talking about a parachute that you can only use *after* flattening yourself. What I think that you mean is that you would prefer a traditional parachute where flattening is avoided entirely.

      My point was that if you have to be flattened as part of the process, you might as well allow the jump itself to flatten you. You get to the ground faster. The whole point of a parachute slowing you is to *avoid* being flattened. If it's alright to be flattened, just jump straight. /not sure the joke was funny enough for all this work

    37. Re:Usefulness by idontgno · · Score: 1
      I can recall at least one model rocket which used a "tumble" recovery without streamer or parachute by separating the body tube into two halves (front half, back half) still connected by shock cord. And an even fuzzier recollection is of a model rocket that did tumble recovery by using the recovery ejection charge to kick the engine casing out of the rocket itself, changing the model's CG enough to make it tumble.

      But this was long ago. Maybe someone still in the model rocketry scene might verify that I'm not hallucinating?

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    38. Re:Usefulness by flyingV · · Score: 1
      "There were a few surprises," Wang notes. "We found the flat paper rises on its own as it falls, which would not happen if the force due to air is similar to that on an airfoil. Instead, the force depends strongly on the coupling between the rotating and translational motions of the object."


      From this, I take that the rotational and translational motion must be coupled to produce the complex movement of the CG that she is talking about. If the rotational and translational motion were decoupled, you'd end up with simple tumbling motion like the kind you would find if you dropped a thin strip of paper (high aspect ratio) with the narrow edge facing downward. This would produce the "force due to air [that] is similar to that on an airfoil."
    39. Re:Usefulness by ajna · · Score: 1

      Interesting. This still doesn't bode well for the (great-?) grandparent's suggestion, however.

  12. But .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    by calculating the motions of a scientific journal page in flight

    ... they still need to repeat the experiment with different types of journals; psychology, home decorating, sports and paranormal to be absolutely sure.

    1. Re:But .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >... they still need to repeat the experiment with different types of journals; psychology, home decorating, sports and paranormal to be absolutely sure.

      $10 the paranormal paper will produce incomprensi... inconprehen... incomperhensi... results that nobody will understand.

  13. They used a scientific journal page... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    ..and it was well behaved and obeyed the laws of physics. I want to see what happens when they repeat it with a bible page.

    1. Re:They used a scientific journal page... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      As soon as the page is ripped from the bible, the scientists will burst into flames.

    2. Re:They used a scientific journal page... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2000 Years ago this worked, they just haven't been able to repeat it since.

    3. Re:They used a scientific journal page... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you are possibly the biggest troll on Slashdot

      Enter the pot.

    4. Re:They used a scientific journal page... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The information conveyed from the page of the Bible will be sustained, and propagated to wherever the page falls.

    5. Re:They used a scientific journal page... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      What information? Null set.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  14. Simple Solution... by Paster+Of+Muppets · · Score: 2, Funny

    Paperweight - stop it going floating in the first place.

    --
    Due to lack of disk space this user has been discontinued
  15. Failing paper?? by nightfire-unique · · Score: 4, Funny
    Hmm.. was I the only one who read that as:

    Physicists Finally Solve the Failing-Paper Problem

    Oh, if only :~(

    <mutter>back to studying I guess.</mutter>

    --
    A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    1. Re:Failing paper?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.. was I the only one who read that as:

      Physicists Finally Solve the Failing-Paper Problem


      I would think the Chemistry folks would be farther along in that field (maybe a little "feel good" powder attached to the term paper?).

  16. Re:Umm... by geoff+lane · · Score: 1

    I would guess the maths works for any flexible membrane moving in a fluid so it may well have extensive applications in medical engineering.

  17. Navier Stokes Equation by Sipos · · Score: 5, Informative

    This seemingly simple problem like many other (more important problems like understanding air turbalance) is an exercise in solving the navier-stokes equation for a fixed set of boundary or initial conditions. The Navier-Stokes equation is the equation that describes the flow of fluids on the large scale. It is a non-linear partial differential equation and is in some cases extremely difficuilt to solve (There is a $1,000,000 prize for the answer to the question: Do smooth initial conditions always lead to smooth solutions?). This may not seem very significant but it is probably very difficuilt to solve.

    1. Re:Navier Stokes Equation by igny · · Score: 1

      It is as significant as it can get. The physical problem is how close the continuous model is to reality. But when we discretize the model, we change it. The mathematical problem is how close the discrete model is to the continuous model.

      --
      In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
    2. Re:Navier Stokes Equation by Timesprout · · Score: 2, Funny

      Do smooth initial conditions always lead to smooth solutions?

      Well from personal experience I know that if she has not waxed then there will be a major reluctance to be a smoothie on my part. So the answer is yes.

      Where's my million bucks?

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    3. Re:Navier Stokes Equation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      "There is a $1,000,000 prize for the answer to the question: Do smooth initial conditions always lead to smooth solutions?"

      Hmm. Tell you what... I'll submit a "yes" and you submit a "no" and whichever of us wins will split the money with the loser. Sound like a good deal? :)

  18. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, this problem is important for aerodynamic theory. Items like airfoils, and spheres are well understood, but other shapes are confusing because of chaos. Understanding how paper falls is one step in understanding how different aerodynamical surfaces operate. The article states that falling paper is twice as effective at slowing down a falling object. Surely thats not minor concern. Additionally understanding the aerodynamical properties of low profile objects can help us understand aircraft (or spacecraft) failures.

  19. rolloverrover by Madcapjack · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "Wang and Pesavento also showed that the falling-paper effect is almost twice as effective for slowing an object's descent, compared with the parachute effect (that is, if an object falls straight down)."

    This might be useful for future Rover missions (or, um Beagle missions). You'll lose accuracy, but at least you wouldn't hit the ground like a falling rock.

    1. Re:rolloverrover by slaad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This might be useful for future Rover missions (or, um Beagle missions). You'll lose accuracy, but at least you wouldn't hit the ground like a falling rock.

      Or maybe for falling capsules...(just in case someone plugs something in upside down)

      --


      ~Warning!~ The above is encrypted using rot676!
    2. Re:rolloverrover by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      Why don't we just dump a whole pile of leaves on Mars? The wind will almost certainly deposit them all on some Martian's lichen lawn or rock garden. While it's gumbling and raking, we pounce!

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    3. Re:rolloverrover by tonyr60 · · Score: 1

      I understand the that the falling-paper effect requires 3 components, paper, gravity and air (or a fluid I guess). Without the air I think the falling rock problem would still remain.

    4. Re:rolloverrover by Madcapjack · · Score: 1

      About air- of course you're right- if we were landing on the moon. But landing on Mars is different- there is air- just not much (you'll remember that the rover's landing pod had parachutes.

  20. Better Parachutes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The researchers also found in the study that tumbling is slower than just parachuting down.

    Could this information be used to redesign parachutes? Could a skydiver use some kind of tumbling mechanism instead of a traditional 'chute?

    Granted, it might be hard to pack the thing in a backpack, though.

    1. Re:Better Parachutes? by B3ryllium · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it's easy ... just fold it about nine times and it should fit.

  21. Related Stories by SuperJason · · Score: 4, Funny

    Notice the "Related Stories" section. It is blank. This doesn't relate to anything. Does that tell you something?

    1. Re:Related Stories by Mikail · · Score: 4, Funny

      I immediately thought of the applications for games. Say you throw around a stack of papers to befuddle your opponents. I can see the headlines now... "Doom 4: Now with realistic falling paper motion!!"

      --
      If life is a waste of time and time is a waste of life, let's all get wasted and have the time of our lives.
    2. Re:Related Stories by dupper · · Score: 0

      Aren't there any falling whitepapers?

    3. Re:Related Stories by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 1

      Gah...just imagine the graphics card specs you'd need to simulate all those pieces of paper!

  22. buttered toast is flat by bushboy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Finally, a possible answer to why Toast ALWAYS falls butter side down in uncontrolled experiments !

    Of course, this still doesn't mean we can get a perpetual motion engine by strapping said toast to a cats back, but we can hope !

    I see a new form of energy just round the corner, CatToastOnics !

    --
    A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
    1. Re:buttered toast is flat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever posted to a say, Game-Related Site named Gamefaqs? I remember CatToastOnics from 4 years ago, on the PSO boards. Ripoff.

    2. Re:buttered toast is flat by Lally+Singh · · Score: 4, Funny

      That was already answered a while back. It has to do with the speed of rotation, combined with the height of the average table. If you were at a different height, the toast would fall butter side up.

      --
      Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    3. Re:buttered toast is flat by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      It has to do with the speed of rotation, combined with the height of the average table.

      As I suspected, it's a database problem.

  23. Now they need to fix the Falling Genesis Problem by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 1

    Sounds like they need to figure out the motions of falling big old heavy solid objects before they worry about this one.

  24. Re:Umm... by Madcapjack · · Score: 2, Flamebait
    air currents? Dumbass scientists with nothing better to live for than proving evolution and why pieces of paper fall slowly. Why not cure cancer you retards?

    Just two words for you: Dumbass Retard.

    Thank you.

  25. not a PHD, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >>"This could help us understand basic mechanisms of how an insect flies, how leaves fall, or how fish swim," Pesavento said.

    Hmmm... I always though that insects fly and fish swim by flapping the wings... and Newton came out with the Law of gravitation that explained how leaves fell long ago... but hey, who am I? not certainly a PHD to theorise such an abstract thought.

  26. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Madcapjack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And physicists are supposed to do what about cancer? Please, let physicists do physics, and physicians do medicine!

  27. the paper.. by unknown_host · · Score: 1, Informative

    A link to the paper can be found at the authors'homepage. Complex phyics models are already a part of Physics engines in most graphics rendering systems. Insect and Bird flight is a well studied problem in character animation.

  28. Re:Umm... by Planetes · · Score: 1

    And Aero engineers (like me) make the delivery systems.

    --
    Planetes
    "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promo Ad
    "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitl
  29. Original pages... by argent · · Score: 4, Informative

    And it's another physorg dead-end. Rather than mirror it or anything, a little googling will find the original material. Here's The original spam-free press release and Professor Wang's home page with a full citation for the paper.

  30. A bit of clarification by Underholdning · · Score: 4, Informative

    Plants with flattened seedpods also take advantage of the falling-paper effect.
    A specific example of this is the sycamore seed. As a matter of fact, landing a helicopter without motor assistance is called "the sycamore landing". It utilizes the exact same theory these phycisists has explained. So - It's not the theory that's new - it's the level of detail.

    1. Re:A bit of clarification by polecat_redux · · Score: 5, Informative

      landing a helicopter without motor assistance is called "the sycamore landing".

      For those interested, I believe the maneuver is more commonly referred to as an autorotation.

    2. Re:A bit of clarification by Kiryat+Malachi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not quite... sycamore seeds fall with a twirling motion, much like a helicopter rotor. But autorotation (the proper name for that maneuver) doesn't rely on the physics they're talking about at all - heli blades are shaped such that the movement of air around the blades forces them to rotate, and the rotation generates lift. Not enough to keep the copter flying unpowered, but enough to prevent it from falling straight to the ground. The motion in the article is definitely not related to rigid airfoils with a fixed axis of rotation - the motion described in this article is that of a thin unconstrained flexible flat sheet.

      Some people have made comments about using tumbling motion to build better parachutes - it probably wouldn't work for a parachute because a parachute requires some attachment of the load to the sheet, and that attachment will prevent the tumbling motion from happening, both by preventing the tumbling and also by loading specific points on the sheet instead of having the load effectively equally distributed.

      --

      ---
      Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
      (I read with sigs off.)
    3. Re:A bit of clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "heli blades are shaped such that the movement of air around the blades forces them to rotate"

      Not quite.
      The are shaped so that if the pilot is quick enough to change the blades pitch while they still have enough momentum, the air movement will keep them spinning. Otherwise they stall, just like a wing (which they are) or a sail. As an aside, those tiny copters you see the traffic guys flying have so little momentum in the blades that a daydreaming pilot will ALWAYS end up falling like a rock on engine out.

    4. Re:A bit of clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tumbling sheet also generates lift. The sheet always rotates backwards with respect to the direction of flight, generating lift by inducing circulation around the "wing". The new thing the Cornell paper explains is why the paper's center of mass sometimes rises instead of gliding smoothly to the ground.

    5. Re:A bit of clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sycamores have seed balls that are about an inch and a quarter or so in diameter. Each is made up of a large number of individual tufted shaft seeds around a center core.

      The spinning seeds come from Maples.

    6. Re:A bit of clarification by Kiryat+Malachi · · Score: 1

      I didn't say the tumbling sheet didn't generate lift; however, the gross mechanisms of twirling flight (helicopters, sycamore seeds) and tumbling flight (flat sheets) are not at all the same, beyond both require generation of lift.

      The new thing the Cornell paper explains is how the boundary effects change the flight dynamics. These boundary effects are different/ignored in rotating-wing flight, but are important in tumbling flight.

      --

      ---
      Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
      (I read with sigs off.)
    7. Re:A bit of clarification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IANAHP, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if your motor conks out, your helicopter is going to be on the ground pretty soon anyway, no?

    8. Re:A bit of clarification by Phurd+Phlegm · · Score: 1
      As a matter of fact, landing a helicopter without motor assistance is called "the sycamore landing".
      As another poster mentioned, it's usually called an autorotation. I didn't find a single instance of this on Google, which is strange (almost any random phrase seems to be somewhere on the web). Perhaps I should be looking in something other than English? If you can give a pointer I'd be grateful, though I have a feeling a German page on helicopters will be . . . interesting . . . when run through Babblefish.
    9. Re:A bit of clarification by one-of-many · · Score: 1

      Not quite. Almost. By immediately downing the collective, the rotors are put into a position where the falling motion turns them into a turbine. This increases the speed (and momentum) of the rotors.

      At the right altitude the collective is raised and the rotors begin to generate lift again. The rotors slow down as the turn speed is traded for lift slowing the decent as much as possible before impact.

  31. Re:Scientists figure out how paper falls. by oobob · · Score: 1

    Really now, besides being an old and tired joke, doesn't this apply to all thin and flat objects similar to paper? Isn't it precisely these jumps in abstract and basic understanding of our world that lead the way for good things, whether it's advancement of basic knowledge (some of which may be applied later) or a novel application of that knowledge? Curious investigation of our world is a necessary precursor to science, and it's absurd to suggest that these sorts of inquiries aren't valuable when the existence of science depends on them.

    -Oobob

  32. Now I Can... by brandonp · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sure a cure for cancer would be nice, but atleast I can use this to calculate how many of those leaves from my neighbor's damned tree are going to end up on my lawn.

    Maybe now I can bill him for raking...

    Brandon Petersen
    Get Firefox!

  33. Cornell Sun by syynnapse · · Score: 1
    My sister wrote tons for the sun when she went to school at cornell. I, on the other hand am a CS student at an art school...

    what they say about first borns being the overacheievers is so true...

    --

    System.out.println(syynnapse.getSig());

  34. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by ResidntGeek · · Score: 0, Troll

    It's a Farkism. Educate yourself. (mod parent down -1, Stupid)

    --
    ResidntGeek
  35. Re:Umm... by Reaper9889 · · Score: 2, Funny

    They've problery already found the cure. Now they just try to calculate were it landed... Everything got an purpose...

  36. Re:Umm... by Mikeydude750 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    For all you know...cancer may be nature's way of positive evolution by getting rid of weaker members.

    So shut up, because mechanics students can't do shit about cancer either way.

  37. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by NonSequor · · Score: 1

    I saw a presentation by Jane Wang about this work last year. She's also done a lot of work on the dynamics of insect flight which she considers to be a closely related problem to this one.

    --
    My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
  38. You win the award! by 3770 · · Score: 1


    ROTFL!

    This is the winner of the award "most interesting insightful funny joke on slashdot" ever.

    --
    The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
  39. Re:Real Nice, by xenocytekron · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Lunar eclipses are boring.

    --
    This is my .sig, if you don't like it, it will eat you.
  40. Good news for Disney and DreamWorks by tsa · · Score: 1

    Now they can make even better-looking animation movies!

    --

    -- Cheers!

  41. Re:Umm... by ivan1011001 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Trolling? Dumbass a.c.'s with nothing better to live for than whining about peopl with actual jobs and careers. Why not cure cancer you retards?

    --

    I was thinking of converting to paganism, but where the hell can you find sacrificial virgins these days?
  42. Classic problems by Alomex · · Score: 1

    It's amazing how many basic problems were left behind in the multibillion race to find the latest useless particle.

    It's not that understanding particle physics is not useful. What bugs me it that it was done at the cost of neglecting other equally important areas of physics.

    1. Re:Classic problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who said that high-energy physics comes at the expense of neglecting problems like this? Lack of funding hasn't stopped any researcher from pursuing this particular problem; it doesn't even require that much in the way of resources. It's simply that it's considered fairly obscure, and not many people choose to work on it.

    2. Re:Classic problems by NichG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't necessarily follow that this problem was solved now because of lack of funding. Rather, I'd say it's more likely that it means that the difficulty of the two problems is about equal.

      We still can't solve the three-body problem analytically (except for some special cases), and thats been around for 400 years. And its not for lack of trying.

      However, only within the last 50 years or so could we make approximations to the solution that work for long enough to be interesting and give insight into the problem. It's the availability of computers that makes it possible.

      Fluid dynamics is a hot topic in astrophysics right now (simulating stars, gravitational collapse of nebulae, accretion discs and jets around blackholes, ...), and there's a lot of consideration being given to tricks to solve Navier-Stokes (and other more complicated models that include the fluid being conducting or charged, or in some GR framework). So it's reasonable to expect that with new algorithms popping up, and refinements on the old ones, suddenly some intractable problems become accessible.

      So I don't think that this was a 'problem left behind', as much as a problem which is just now becoming solvable. (Part of) the reason we spend billions on particle physics and not on this sort of problem is that the minimal 'thing' to advance the science in particle physics costs billions, whereas nowadays one can run fairly large-scale simulations (of classical systems) on a $2000 laptop: the biggest cost for those problems is hiring students/postdocs/professors to work on them. So really there what funding enables is diversity in the problems being tackled (how many laptops can you afford? how many grad students?), rather than the speed at which any one particular problem is solved.

      Of course, this isn't true of some problems (quantum systems) which you really do need 1000 cutting edge systems all networked together to solve even a simple problem. In that case, you're going to have to be willing to throw a fair amount of money at the problem before you can see any progress.

    3. Re:Classic problems by Alomex · · Score: 1

      So I don't think that this was a 'problem left behind', as much as a problem which is just now becoming solvable.

      This problem was solvable forty years ago, had we been willing to spend $1 billion on it, as we did building the latest bevatron back then. If you look at where physics has gone since the end of the cold war you'd see a shift away from particle physics and back to more traditional physics.

    4. Re:Classic problems by DonGar · · Score: 1

      But academia does follow the money to a certain degree. I had a CS professor who was doing really intereatng work with database theory, and was publishing on a regular basis. Despite the quality of his work, he was denied tenure. He had no grants because what he was doing didn't need any (well, a whiteboard and a notebook).

      --
      plus-good, double-plus-good
  43. Re:Umm... by EggplantMan · · Score: 2, Funny
    Just two words for you: Dumbass Retard.

    Congratulations. Within the span of two words you have personally offended (along with the parent poster):

    • people who can't speak
    • donkeys
    • mentally retarded people
    In the future, I would kindly request that you try to be more politically correct and just say 'fuck you'.

    HTH. HAND.

    --

    ?-|||-----x<*))))><
  44. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are a useless piece of shit.

    Always was, and always will be.

  45. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    'fuck you' is offensive to people who have no or non-functional genitalia, you insensitive clod! That includes most of the slashdot editors, a large portion of the trolls, victims of ritual female genital mutilation, mules, and Barbie.

  46. Inspired by ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sheesh, scientists having to turn to Hollywood for their inspiration ...

  47. I know! I know! Teacher, teacher oooooo PICK ME! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    /me waving hands frantically in the air..
    I know why it falls peanut butter side down!

    OK, why?

    The gods got a sense of humor, and are always dickin with us!

  48. Like many firsts .. this one's been DONE BEFORE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Phys Rev Lett. 1994 Sep 5;73(10):1372-1375. Related Articles, Links

    Behavior of a falling paper.

    Tanabe Y, Kaneko K.

    http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v73/i10/p1372_ 1

    1. Re:Like many firsts .. this one's been DONE BEFORE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note: In physics .. fluid means either air or liquid (the two are interchangeable) ..so no comments about how this paper's about liquid versus air or something silly without actually reading the paper or understanding anything.

    2. Re:Like many firsts .. this one's been DONE BEFORE by tonsofpcs · · Score: 3, Informative

      That report you cite is based upon chaotic motion, the new one seems to be based upon truely predictable motion.

    3. Re:Like many firsts .. this one's been DONE BEFORE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Uh yeah. That paper is cited by Pesavento and Wang, among numerous others. A number of people have studied falling paper before. But after citing Tanabe and Kaneko's work on inviscid theory, Pesavento and Wang go on to say that "what appears to be lacking" in these previous studies is "a model of the fluid force and torque that is constructed and tested against experiment or compuations". That's what's new here.

  49. This is what happened. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Researcher 1: We're going to lose funding if we don't put out some new studies... any ideas?
    Researcher 2: But we don't have enough funding to finance any new studies!
    Researcher 1: Well lets work with what we have. Get that box of stuff under my desk.
    Researcher 2: It's just full of these stupid papers we've never looked at. *tosses said papers into air*
    Both Researchers: Ahh hah!

  50. They do fall straight down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you're on the moon, where there is little or no atmosphere, they will fall straight down. Has anyone seen the video of the feather falling straight down without fluttering around at all?

    1. Re:They do fall straight down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So thats why there are no feathers on the moon!

    2. Re:They do fall straight down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a piece of toast falls butter side down on the moon and there's no one there to hear it, does it still make a splut?

    3. Re:They do fall straight down... by kasperd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Has anyone seen the video of the feather falling straight down without fluttering around at all?

      I have actually seen the real thing. In connection with our faculty there is a small museum. Among other things they have two vacuum tubes that can be turned upside down. In one there is a feather in the other there is a stone. Interesting to see them fall at exactly the same speed.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    4. Re:They do fall straight down... by julesh · · Score: 1

      If a piece of toast falls butter side down on the moon and there's no one there to hear it, does it still make a splut?

      No, but it'll still end up with pet hair in it, and nobody will ever be able to figure out where they came from.

    5. Re:They do fall straight down... by danila · · Score: 1

      I just tried to imagine that and I can't. :( I know perfectly well how it should happen, but I can visualise a feather dropping down so fast, so heavily, so unfeatherishly. :-((( Please, someone post a link to a video.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    6. Re:They do fall straight down... by danila · · Score: 1

      can't visualise, of course.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  51. Pesavento? by Tellarin · · Score: 1

    Was it just me who got amused that Pesavento in Portuguese means Wind-weight?

    I wonder if Wang means somethign related. :)

    1. Re:Pesavento? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at least in portuguese Wang doesn't mean anything. BTW, I think that it would be more acurate to say that Pesavento might mean something like Wind-Weighter...

  52. In Other News by Christopheles · · Score: 1, Funny

    The army has made deals with major defense contractors to provide soldiers with large pieces of paper to replace their now-obsolete parachutes.

  53. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't fark. Go away.

  54. Re:Umm... by Dorothy+86 · · Score: 1

    And Electrical engineers (like me) make the flight systems.

  55. Once again, I will remind the scientific community by poofmeisterp · · Score: 0, Troll

    ...there still exist such things as hunger, disease, and others that would benefit from scientific research time. Why are we concerned with falling paper?

  56. This paper is full of wind... by syousef · · Score: 1

    I know bad joke but I'm sorry I just couldn't resist :-)

    Actually as silly as this paper seems it reminds me of Einstein's explanatation of Brownian Motion. Published the same year as his Special Relativity paper it was titled "On the Motion--Required by the Molecular Kinetic Theory of Heat--of Small Particles Suspended in a Stationary Liquid". I doubt this paper is as significant, but it may not be as trivial as it sounds when reported in laymans terms either.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  57. A Superior Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Physicists Finally Solve the Falling-Paper Problem"

    Step 1: Get rock.
    Step 2: Put rock on top of paper.

    Optional Step: Remove rock when access to paper is required.

    (Patent Pending)

  58. I'm surprised at what surprised these guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "There were a few surprises," Wang notes. "We found the flat paper rises on its own as it falls, which would not happen if the force due to air is similar to that on an airfoil. Instead, the force depends strongly on the coupling between the rotating and translational motions of the object."

    Anyone who has ever thrown playing cards, frisbee, venetian blind bomerang (you have to be old enough to have had wooden venetian blinds as a kid) would not be surprised at the quoted 'surprise'.

    1. Re:I'm surprised at what surprised these guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Falling paper doesn't have a huge gyroscopic effect, like a frisbee or boomerang does. So it's not obvious that the rotational motion will couple strongly to the translational motion.

    2. Re:I'm surprised at what surprised these guys... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      So you've never tossed playing cards?

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  59. Where is the equations? by julie-h · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Where can I read the report or the equations?

  60. Something else is in play... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..because this deck of Yu-gi-oh cards is falling straight down.

    Maybe this effect only happens at lower latitudes? Its 45N here.

  61. Re:Once again, I will remind the scientific commun by dustinbarbour · · Score: 2

    Because physicists study physics.. not disease and hunger. Not to mention the fact that having a world where veryone is equal, fat and happy is not ideal. Happiness is a relative thing. A major component of happiness is knowing that some other poor soul has things worse than ourselves. There will ALWAYS be winners and losers. Quit being such a bleeding-heart and accept life for what it is. It's been working for a billion years or so. Don't think you know better. Sheeshh..

  62. You look stupid.... by jeephistorian · · Score: 1


    ...and your wife makes you see a "special friend".

    --
    Huh?
  63. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I'll do your mom!

  64. Advanced Mathematics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know this is America, but since when is folding toilet paper considered mathematics?

    1. Re:Advanced Mathematics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Smartass teachers like to give students tasks they think are impossible and offer bonus points. I'm sure for 85 dollars and gold foil, it was something like a free A in the class. When I was in eighth grade a teacher offered a A for the class if you memorized a few hundred digits of pi that were posted circleing the room near the ceiling. I wish I had know about Pseudonumbers then. I probably wouldn't have learned any algebra after that, but I would've shown that smartass.

    2. Re:Advanced Mathematics by Doppler00 · · Score: 1

      Memorizing a few hundred digits of pi isn't too difficult. I had about 200 digits memorized at one point, although not for a grade, but just for my own amusement. Don't ask.

    3. Re:Advanced Mathematics by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 1

      Okay, I'll bite, why?

      Sera

      --
      Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
    4. Re:Advanced Mathematics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have 52 memorized. I've found that number of digits is good enough. For most people anything more than the usual 3.14 is impressive. For geeks it takes a little more, but even they don't have any number memorized to more than 8-10 digits.

  65. Re:Once again, I will remind the scientific commun by imsabbel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What are you doing for a better world today?
    How about selling your computer and feed some children in nigeria with the money?
    Would have the nice side-effect that we wouldnt have to hear your wise-ass remarks.

    --
    HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
  66. Re:Science Update by wambaugh · · Score: 1
    People who have never tried to solve them often underestimate the complexity of problems like cancer or AIDS (or any complex system). Sometimes the insights gained by fully understanding simpler systems (such as falling paper) lead to similar insights into other, messier problems. In this case, there is no known methodical approach to solving non-linear partial differential equations -- instead there is only a slowly expaning body of specific equations whose solutions have been found by chance. Since both biological and physical phenomena are often governed by similar non-linear PDE's, studying the simpler system is often more productive.

    In other words, you can learn to drive in a parking lot or on the autobahn, but while their are merits to either approach, a lot of us prefer the parking lot.

  67. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by wambaugh · · Score: 1

    Too bad physicists squander all our valuable resources on useless gadgets like MRI's, CAT scanners, pacemakers, lasers and microscopes. I guess you would have been happier in the days before science pushed aside leeches and unwashed hands in standard medical practice.

  68. Research is important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only by expanding our understanding of everything around us can we hope to make things better. All of the people saying that people shouldn't study fluid dynamics because it has no applications to cancer have a pretty narrow minded view. If people were asked to explain the immediate benefit of their research, the world would be a very different place.

  69. Experiments involving cats and butter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could be on to something professor.

    Perhaps a precursory experiment is in order.

    In India, it's long been known that, if a tiger
    is wearing all your clothes and chasing your naked self around a tree, that upon attaining sufficient angular velocity, you may climb the tree and watch said tiger chase himself until he turns to butter.

    Here in the West, we know that tigers are nothing more than large cats and that a falling cat will always land foot side down.

    What we don't know is what will happen if we take two tigers, attire them with little green jackets and all, strap them back to back, and hurl them from the top of a tall building. In the interest of completeness and safety, this experiment should incorporate a bucket (for the butter), a furrier, a Chinese cook (who can also make pancakes), and two birds in a bush.

  70. Rotating and translational motions by owlstead · · Score: 1

    "Instead, the force depends strongly on the coupling between the rotating and translational motions of the object."

    Though this is a lightweight scientific breakthough, this sentence made me laugh a bit. So we have to take other forces into consideration than gravity if an object moves upward? Who would have thought. Coupling of rotating and translational motions? Come on guys, what other movements did you expect?

  71. Re:Umm... by scottv67 · · Score: 1

    > Why not cure cancer you retards?

    The "retards" already have a cure for cancer. It's just that the cure carries with it a number of unpleasant side-effects. [I have witnesed this first-hand.]

    Why you should be asking for is a "better" cure for cancer. One that doesn't make the patient extremely sick after each dose and doesn't cause the patient's hair to fall out.

    -Scott

  72. Re:Umm... by I7D · · Score: 3, Funny

    Interestingly, when scientists were making progress in cancer treatments, I asked a similar question of "cancer? Dumbass scientists with nothing better to live for than proving evolution and curing cancer? Why not solve the falling paper dilemma you retards?

    --
    Neil is that you? Yeah yeah, it's me... Neil...
  73. Re:Umm... by dustinbarbour · · Score: 1

    Flaimbait..?! BAH! He's right. Disease is a driving force in evolution. Weed out the weak and make for a stronger species! Stop curing cancer now!

  74. Ignoble Awards 2004/5 by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2, Funny

    I think we may have a winner....

  75. Re:Once again, I will remind the scientific commun by mdfst13 · · Score: 1

    " Because physicists study physics.. not disease and hunger."

    Not only is hunger not a physics problem, it's not a scientific problem either. We know the scientific solution to hunger: eating. Further, we have plenty of food. If some individual is short of food, it is a political/economic problem. The classic example would be starvation in Ethiopia in the 80s: initial food donations never made it to the starving people because the government was *trying* to starve them. Donors had to bypass the Ethiopian government and deliver food directly to the starving to be effective.

  76. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Tim+C · · Score: 1

    Two things:

    1) like wambaugh said, physicists contribute towards the improvement of medical care as it is

    2) simply throwing more money and people at a problem doesn't necessarily get it solved any quicker; 9 women can't have a baby in one month

  77. Re:Umm... by fermion · · Score: 3, Funny
    Well, paper falling is classic physics. The classic physics in which we assume the divine is deterministic and try to understand the nature of that determinacy for the purpose of better understanding the nature of the divine, and thus becoming more one with the divine. Evolution can be argued the same way.

    OTOH, curing cancer is a pseudoscientific attempt to interfere with the clear intention of the divine. In fact, by curing cancer, and going beyond the understanding of the divine to the prideful attempt to compete with the divine, we are surely condemning ourselves to eternal suffering. All to prevent a few years of suffering in this life. How gauche.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  78. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Madcapjack · · Score: 1

    You're right- physicists have made contributions to medicine- i was in no way implying that physicists cannot- but the original poster was implying that the research wasn't worth conducting because it didn't have medical applications.

  79. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Still no cure for cancer.

    Well, get back to your research then. I'm sure you'll crack that one yet.

  80. Re:Umm... by Madcapjack · · Score: 1

    Yes, you're quite right, except that 'fuck you' is mysogynist- at least in the image it evokes...

  81. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Leeches are being used today to help prevent clotting after a patient has had an extremity such as a finger or toe re-attached.

  82. Slightly fun coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pesavento, in portuguese, means "weighs wind".

  83. Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Boooring ... learn to joke, dude.

  84. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by mdfst13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "If we took the money that the physicists receive"

    There is no evidence that the physicist and the mathematician received any extra money here. They probably are both lecturers (someone already posted about having the mathematician for a class). They may well be doing the research part in their free time. If you have a problem with that, maybe you should stop reading /. in *your* free time and get to work on that cure for cancer.

    For that matter, why aren't you criticizing smokers? Not only do they make themselves more likely to get cancer, they also take frequent breaks to smoke. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that smoke breaks take more time than the sum total of cancer research. Eliminating smoking would free up physicians who are currently working on cancer to do research and provide more time for non-physicians to do maid work, etc. to free up physicians to concentrate on their cancer research.

    The results of physics research also free up people by cutting costs in other areas. If we still had a hunter/gatherer economy, we wouldn't be able to waste people on non-essentials like medicine, much less medical *research*. Not to mention the point that the advances in understanding chaotic systems may be applicable in areas other than physics (e.g. medicine). While statistical analysis (from mathematics!) suggests possible causes of cancer, we still don't understand what actually happens.

  85. Re:Scientests figure out how paper falls. by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

    How much physics could a physician physic if a physician were physically a physicist?

  86. Well thank goodness they figured this out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    its been driving me crazy and distracting me from my much less important work for a cancer cure.

  87. Suck it up, faggot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You wont get any solace here for your feeble mind. If you're going to be stuck in a cube for the rest of your life as a code monkey becuase you couldn't handle the simple task of getting a good SAT score or taking a few AP classes, then tough shit.

    1. Re:Suck it up, faggot by dankjones · · Score: 1

      I can tell by your demeanor that you fail life.

  88. Note Air Force involvement by marbux · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The U.S. military have a longstanding interest in the dynamics of falling pieces of paper and did extensive research on the topic in arriving at the ideal dimensions for propaganda leaflets dropped from aircraft and leaflet bombs that would provide reasonable assurances that the leaflets hit the intended target.

    I served in an Army psychological warfare unit in Viet Nam that had produced and delivered, by 1970, enough leaflets to cover the entire country of South Viet Nam to a depth of more than 6 inches. Delivery was divided between Army helicopters and Air Force planes.

    It's not surprising to see the Air Force funding further study on this subject.

    1. Re:Note Air Force involvement by idontgno · · Score: 2, Funny
      It's not surprising to see the Air Force funding further study on this subject.

      What is surprising is the reason the Air Force is so interested in this subject. Nothing related to aeronautical engineering or operational missions... They're looking to improve their staffing and paperwork flow. Because right now, throwing your Staff Summary package out the window at HQ appears to work better than walking the damn thing around directorate admin offices.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  89. Link is a redirect to an unrelated site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    redirects to a Pro-kerry politcal website.

    Darn, I really wanted to see a zero g cat :P

    1. Re:Link is a redirect to an unrelated site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dammit - sorry, they must've changed it when they got hit.

      try here

      too bad it's not higher res

  90. Re:Now they need to fix the Falling Genesis Proble by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

    There are a zillion things to sort out before worrying about this one...

    It's just one of those junk research papers you get sometimes. Universities will fund anything if you dress it up in enough language, like the guy who got a half million dollar grant for researching "the effect of alchohol on the human body" then spent the next year getting very very drunk.

  91. Re:Once again, I will remind the scientific commun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are you posting on slashdot instead of searching for the cure to cancer?

  92. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did they put butter on one side?

  93. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And Oil executives choose the targets.

  94. Experiment with a Ruler by florescent_beige · · Score: 3, Funny
    Take a regular 12" ruler preferably one of those wooden ones or stiff plastic. Hold it on the long edges between your thumb and middle finger (I mean, your thumb on the 6" mark and your index finger on the 15cm mark). Heave it into the air at about 45 degs (up not down), trying to give it some backspin.

    With any luck it will fly around a bit, swoopishly. The circulation caused by the back-spin generates lift, same as airfoil-shape induced circulation (faster airflow on top, slower on the bottom) as per that well known Kutta-Joukowski formula s * b * mu * gamma.

    Which is apropos of nothing. Also, the Navier-Stokes equations can't be solved around a singularity like the edge without a simplification which usually takes the form of an assumed boundary layer of some sort (probably laminar at these Reynolds numbers which makes it a lot easier). Also, N-S is initial-condition sensitive because the solutions have bad scale missmatch, so you'll want to use your duodecaduple precision math library.

    I didn't really understand from the blurb if they were talking about bendy things like paper pages. That would make it a fluid-structural coupled problem. Very tricky. The hardest part of that is getting the fluids guys to return the structures guys' phone calls.

    --
    Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
  95. I'll contribute by GnarlyNome · · Score: 1

    What if you wrap the cat in a piece of paper that has been formed to make a Moebius strip, butter the other side of the animal, then tie it together to another cat? I suspect this may be the way to create time travel or a perpetual motion machine.
    you can use My neighbors cat and I'll give you t the peanut butter if you want to try it
    ps don't return the cat

    --
    Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
  96. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And some other attention-starved geek who didn't get enough hugs from mommy as a child (me) will also pipe up in this thread about his job.

  97. No joke by paragon_au · · Score: 1

    The parents is making a joke, that is the actual reason toast lands buttered side up.

    The buttered side is heavier, so it starts to flip. But due to the height of the avg table, it doesn't have time to complete a full rotation, so it lands on the buttered side.

    If you were to drop it from say the top a fridge, it would most likely land buttered side up.

    1. Re:No joke by 6th+time+lucky · · Score: 1

      Cant find the link that went into depth about this. It basically concludes that toast falling buttered side down is a constant of the universe.

      If molecular bonds were stronger (or gravity weaker), we would have stronger skulls, so could fall from a greater height, so would be taller, so would have higher tables, so the toast could do a complete flip and land buttered side up before hitting the ground.

      This http://wvlc.uwaterloo.ca/biology447/modules/intro/ MurphysScience.html isnt the original, and not nearly as funny...

  98. Don't Poke the Eurotrash by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    (or, um Beagle missions)

    You're just asking for "flamebait" points. :)

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  99. obligatory question to answer by marafa · · Score: 1
    pls. give the answer to the meaning of life, the universe and everything

    ps. mod me as troll

    --
    _ In Egypt Networks: Network Solutions with a Twist
  100. Re:Umm... by mkldev · · Score: 1
    Umm... cancer is caused by genetic mutation, which is, by its nature, a driving force of evolution. Disease drives evolution by weeding out weaker members. Mutation drives evolution by creating stronger members, except that sometimes it doesn't work.

    Thus, by stopping cancer, you're actually -helping- evolution by ensuring that only the useful and non-fatal mutations continue into the next generation.

    I know, I know. IHBT. IHL. HAND.

    --
    120 character sigs suck. Make it 250.
  101. Re:Real Nice, by Justabit · · Score: 0

    Lunar Eclipses hapen all the time... well sort of, But falling paper!...well that happens all the time too but........ ...She folded it 12 times and shes cute looking and she got an A without having to...do any...thing. test test, is this thing on?, can you hear me up the back? Try the veal. I'm here all week, thank you, your beautiful.

    --
    "Persistance is Fertile" - Me. I can quote myself if I want to.
  102. if not paper then... by Justabit · · Score: 0

    How about determining where a ball is going to fall. is that crazy? then think about Roulette.

    --
    "Persistance is Fertile" - Me. I can quote myself if I want to.
  103. Ok, maybe it wasn't that funny... by jcr · · Score: 1

    But since when is an 'in soviet russia' joke a troll?

    I guess a couple of my freaks got some mod points.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  104. Re:Yes, But Does It Explain... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because some genius came up with a simple circular one-way association involving three items, to be propagated universally as a fair way of deciding the winner between opponents.

  105. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, evolution weed out the unfit, and make fit species to survive. The problem is the "fitness".

    The "fitness" of cancer disease is death for all. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want that "fitness" function in the first place.

    Do you remember the nature program where there are drought in a land and animals fight and eat each other to survive, only to die off one by one, where none is left?

    That is the true evolution with disease. Disease is not here to let us be stronger, it is here to kill us all. Why would virus evolve, making the specific "fitness" change? Because the "general fitness" is to destroy.

  106. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, curing cancer is a divine purpose for us to better understand some part of the divine design of life.

    Many of the discoveries in medicine made us wonder more about the miracles of life.

  107. Re:Once again, I will remind the scientific commun by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Hunger is not a problem, it is a proper body function notifying the body that it's time to eat. Starvation is not a modern scientific problem, it is a political problem restricted to tyrannies.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  108. Patent it! by motyl · · Score: 1

    You have a material for at least 4 patents in your post. Quick!

  109. It's just some trash blowing in the wind! by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

    Do you have any idea how complicated your circulatory system is?

  110. other journal page behaviors by McFly777 · · Score: 1

    Those are easy....

    The psychology journal page will behave erratically as it falls.

    The home-decorating page will form into a lovely table centerpiece as it falls.

    The sports page will arc through the air and land in a round waste-basket making a swoosh sound as it does so.

    The paranormal journal page will either vanish in midflight or will hover with no visible means of support for a short time before it suddenly accellerates horizontaly making several sharp course changes before disappearing from sight.

    --

    McFly777
    - - -
    "What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
  111. Titanic by BigBadBus · · Score: 1

    Funnily enough, this exact same behaviour was exhibited by a model of the Titanic when dropped into a water tank to simulate her journey to the bottom of the ocean. Maybe the equations that are described in this paper also apply to ships of several thousand tons too?

  112. Similar to falling coin in water? by balaam's+ass · · Score: 1

    Hi, I looked through posts and didn't see any discussion of this:

    When I was a grad student in physics back in the late '90s, I remember seeing some papers posted on a bulletin board about a study of coins falling in water. This system, and the system of pages falling in air clearly have some similarities that, of course, the popular press isn't going to bother pointing out.

    But, fyi, the falling paper problem is still more complicated, since the air affects not only the motion of the paper, but its shape as well.

    One thing that wasn't clear from the article, however, were what sort of computational techniques they are using. Solving Navier-Stokes is extremely difficult, and subject to all kinds of artifacts of the computational setup (e.g. discretization scale, location of boundary conditions,, etc..) Not that I'm doubting the editors of PRL, just that it would have been nice to see a bit more detail.

  113. Re:Umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not prevent cancer instead of worrying about curing it?

  114. Raise your hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if while reading this article you picked up a piece of paper and dropped it beside your desk to test out this effect, even though you've seen it a million times.