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NTT DoCoMo Debuts Credit Card Phone
Scott S. writes "NTT DoCoMo Unveils its new phone allowing a simply wave to pay for items at the supermarket, rent movies, get airplane tickets and more. The i-mode FeliCa serves as a "mobile wallet" that detects weak electronic signals from a reader/writer and can be used when the phone is off. Credit card phones have been an idea in the past and leave it to the Japanese to make one."
It seems almost inevitable that Japanese is going to have a Felica after Toyota's Celica and Mitsubishi's Delica :) Where's Google when you need a Gelica (Girly Car)?
The article mentioned "i-mode FeliCa will make your wallet more slim. It can be your cash, credit card, membership ID, and even your house key." Given that many people have mobile phones stolen/lost, or worse, broken in the most unexpected moment, is relying too heavily on one device too much a risk?
I think it's equally annoying to have your cash stolen, house broken into, and not being able to enter your house (and you can't call for help without a mobile phone or cash for payphone!)
--
Play iCLOD Virtual City Explorer [iclod.com] and win Half-Life 2
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
I use ExxonMobil's Speedpass from time to time, but I don't quite see why the same thing needs to be attached into a cell phone. Isn't an RFID chip on a keychain enough to do the job?
Yes, of course leave it to the Japaneese. They're a progressive society.
...go get my tin foil hat ironed.
How will one of social status now impress those of less social status with these new credit card phones? This is certainly not going to fly with the jet set!
Now I carry a spare CompactFlash and my driving and fishing licenses.
Unless the cellphone has a handy place to put these things I can't see it replacing a wallet any time soon.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I can't wait til I'm leaving a grocery store without buying anything, I walk through the checkout line to get out, and I end up buying someone else's groceries for them without knowing it.
*thinks* wait a minute...I might be the one getting free groceries.
NTT DoCoMo DeBuTs cRedIt CaRd pHoNe
Wha...? Did slashdot just turn into engrish.com?
I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
I always wondered, is it possible to read these passively at some other location (i.e. a small reader attached near the lock on an apartment complex?) and bill later? Perhaps storing the tag's info in flash for eventual DL?
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Does this mean that unauthorized charges can be made without even being able to turn off the capability?
If so, then drive-by theft suddenly becomes possible. Gives war-driving a whole new meaning.
Am I the only one who sees this as a boon to thieves?
1. Steal unsuspecting person's phone
2. Make lots of purchases quickly
3. Ditch phone and abscond with goods
4. Achieve eternal contentment
What is life, save a temporary victory over that which causes out inevitable death
But seriously, shouldn't a monetary transaction require a signature and/or a passcode, not just a gesture? How close does this have to be to the reader in order to bill my account? It would appear that there would be tremendous potential for ringing up unintentional charges when using a remote reader for payment.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
I live in Japan and these phones have been out for atleast 5 months. That said, I use one and it's really handy. Riding the trains is very nice since I don't have to wait in line to buy tickets any more. Untill the tech. is adopted in more convenience stores outside of the train stations though, I'll still need my change purse.
As we all know, the japanese love to use cash anyway, so I feel like a tech like this stands a better chance at becomming really really popular in the US or Europe, where credit cards are more commonly accepted. Pretty frequent to have busniess associates of mine get into jams at nice resturants because they don't have enough cash.
jsking
UnapprovedThought:
Either way, you can wave goodbye to your money.
but what do i know, i'm just a model.
Give me a credit card *sized* phone, then i'll give you $500 for it.
In the mean time, fuck off and let me enjoy my obsolete technology. At least it gets 18 days standby or 10 hours talk time with bluetooth.
Beep beep.
I feel so ripped off. and no, nobody charged up my phone.
I just wanted a phone the size of credit card. like say a type 1 PC Card thickness or thinner.
If your cell phone is your only phone, and you lose your cell phone, how do you report that you lost your credit card?
(let's assume you don't have any friends and your work doesn't have any phones, either, OK?)
As a result, a handset becomes a mobile tool for convenient new uses, serving as e-money, credit card, ticket, or even house or office key.
Now when I lose my phone, it will be even more of a pain in the ass. Not to mention the increased likelyhood of someone just grabbing your phone right out of your hand while you're talking on it. And using it as a house key!?!? Now I've got to buy TWO phones so I can throw one under the doormat? It'll be hard to explain to my friends to disregard the lump under the mat, while at the same time being careful not to step on it. (Just kidding, I have no friends).
The press release doesn't mention anything about security either.. At least my credit card has a signature on the back for the cashiers to pretend to examine.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
I think I would be inclined to wrap one of these phones in Tin Foil when not in use, as I wouldn't want to be paying for someone's $200 grocery bill...
Now they need to implement All of it into a PDA. Ah, a society where I don't have to carry an extra 20 pounds of items. I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. Maybe now I can start wearing cargo pants for a fashion statement and not for all my little gizmos.
Can I get a phone that is just a phone please? Or a phone that excels in phone-based things? I've yet to see a cell phone that lets me block numbers at the phone level, rather than PAYING to have a number blocked with the service provider. No I don't want a crappy digital camera on my phone. No I don't want a crappy music player on my phone. No I don't want a crappy web browser on my phone. I don't want a crappy credit card on my phone. I WANT A PHONE THAT IS A PHONE. Jesus christ.
Am I the only one who thought, "Credit card phone? Sounds too small."
Are you...Are you some kind of genius?
No, ma'am, I'm just a regular Slashdot reader.
The first time I tried to buy groceries in Japan with a CC, the woman looked at my like I was crazy, called her supervisor, who looked at me like I was crazy and called his supervisor, who looked at me like was crazy and called his supervisor, who... Well, if you've lived in Japan you know how their management and beauraucracy can work.
But I'm sure they'll figure something out.
NickCan we leave the monthly bills to them too? That would be cool!
In Toronto we have Dexit tags (like an Esso Speedpass) that can be used for small purchase. It's not often seen outside of the downtown core, but hopefully they will be adopted in more places soon.
Telus Mobility also has a Dexit tag that attaches to your cellphone so it acts something like the one described in the article. It's not built into the phone, but rather just a different style Dexit tag that attaches to the phone.
Anyhow, they're quite useful for small ($50) day-to-day purchases.
This is old news in Japan. It was announced back in June:
http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=888
But for those of us in the west, there's news, too, such as Nokia yesterday announcing a faceplate accessory that adds this feature to one of their phones:
http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=994
And Motorola recently announcing a U.S. trial of this technology together with MasterCard:
http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=973
Don't confuse this new NFC-based technology with passive technology like the gas-station keychain things, or touch-based transit passes, campus ID cards, etc. This is different, because it's active and dyanamic - it's integrated with the phone.
That means it can serve multiple purposes. It can be your cash, credit card, debit card, bus pass, driver's license, and work ID all in one. Then you can download a Java app to the phone that will let it replace your grocery dicount card, too. It really can replace your whole wallet - not just a credit card. That's what's so cool about NFC systems like FeliCa.
Just yesterday I found someone's phone on the train approaching Tokyo Station; they'd got off at Ginza leaving it there. Sitting right beside the phone was the person's train ticket. This person wouldn't have even been able to exit the ticket gates at Ginza to get to where the pay phone was so he could call Lost and Found.
The thing is, with actual paper money and credit cards and everything else, you're not likely to have your wallet out of your pants during the train ride, but around here a good 25% of the people on the train have their cel phones out doing text messaging or playing video games during the train ride.
It seems like there'll be a greater chance for people to lose their cel phones than their wallets, and now that we're cramming everything under the sun into cel phones, it'll just be more devistating to lose one.
- In Capitalist America, law violates YOU!
We have these in Japan for a while, and if it's the same, it's a debit card. You can use your phone to transfer money from your credit card (!) to your phone or you can use ATMs to put money in it.
My phone is capable of that, but I never used. Some convenience stores, video rentals and even Coca-Cola vending machines are planned to be payable using Felica mainly next year, but I still don't see many shops around me where I can use that.
The NEC N900, the insanely small GSM cameraphone. Also insanely priced at $1450 on Dynamism. And runs only on GSM 900/1800 so can't use it in the states. Very cool though.
http://www.dynamism.com/n900/
http://shit.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/03/2 257205
AFAIK, prototypes of these have been out for a while. As of this summer, my roommate from Japan had one, which he used in Japan to pay at certain places. Had anybody else seen these before now?
It may not have been a DoCoMo phone, but with DoCoMo backing this service it's about to get really popular really quick...
-Siggy!
I'll tell you this article is totally false..
:-)
Nextel actually beat DoCoMo to it..
Are you interested in getting setup with a credit card machine, sir?
But for some reason the fact that Japan is introducing the same technology keeps coming up in the news over the last few months.
The electronic wallet system is called Moneta and my phone has a slot for a smart card (same size as a GSM SIM card) issued by a bank. It communicates contactlessly by waving it over a receiver at some ATMs, restaurants etc. You can also use it instead of a regular contactless smartcard for the subway/bus etc.
The phone has a set of menus which communicate with the smart card to manage balance etc.
The i-mode FeliCa serves as a "mobile wallet" that detects weak electronic signals from a reader/writer and can be used when the phone is off. I wish I could find the original article I read about this technology some months back. The main concern of the technology's proponents at the time of writing was this: What if someone obtained a reader/writer device and modified it to increase the signal strength? Then, this person would theoretically be able to rob an entire subway platform full of people simply by walking around them with this device. At the time of the article's writing, the problem had not been solved yet, and supposedly still required additional thought... so, what was the resolution? I haven't read anything as to the solution to this very real threat. Not that a solution doesn't exist, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that a solution has been found and implemented prior to product release. Wots, uh, the deal?
...
Can I get a phone that is just a phone please? Or a phone that excels in phone-based things?
Keep a lookout on eBay for the Ericsson r520m. Bluetooth, GPRS data modem, simple black and white screen, simple phone beeps, no camera, no MP3, (unless you get an attachment) no frills. It was popular in Europe amongst business people looking for a no-nonsense phone.
This was the last phone Ericsson made in Sweden and the last phone before the Sony/Ericsson merger.
You never see them locked to a carrier because they are not intended for the US market. Europe only if my memory serves me right.
I just got one more from my friendly neighborhood phone store as a reward for re-upping for another year. They work great under T-Mobile, my carrier for the past year. The extra is there in case mine breaks, or to keep my husband set up with a mobile when Cingular/AT&T drops prepaid TDMA service. It's not a question of if this will happen, but when. Cingular has been moving people from TDMA to GSM already...I don't think they'll stop anytime soon.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
say "Hi, I am here!" Will somebody get his or her bill payed?
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
No I havent RTFA
But can someone explain to me how you couldn't do the exact same thing by gluing an RFID tag on the back of some part of the phone like the battery cover or something.
The promise of this "creditphone" tech is not in "waving" it to buy things. It's that the phone has a CPU, memory, network, and GUI. That means I can give a random password for each transaction, keep a log, back up my records for comparing to my bills, and get trustworthy invoices that I can "OK" or "Cancel". All as simple as just "waving" the phone (and tapping "OK" or "Cancel"). Waving is too little effort to be secure. The rest of the features are the killer app: my phone as my universal remote to the physical world.
--
make install -not war
now the guy who steals my phone can fly to australia with it on my nickel!
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Answered my question, and did a fine job of it, too. The button-press acceptance is more or less what I'd figured.
My mistake.
Somebody just has to steal your phone. They don't even need your cc# or anything. Just about the most delicious thing thieves have ever heard of.
The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
What's this then?
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
"its new phone allowing a simply wave to pay for items at the supermarket"
/. anymore?
does no one correct on
here
There is alreday possible to pay for parking (and other things) using phone here in Iceland. Just phone one number, and your parking is paid for. No need for special phone.
GSM is your friend.
If this usues some type of RFID chip, wouldn't it be possible for someone to create a portable reader? A person could then stroll through the mall gathering "credit card numbers" (or whatever), and then use the data for purchases. I'm sure the data muse be encrypted, but how long before it is cracked? I am not claiming the credit cards are secure, but at least no one can see through your wallet, and gather the information as you are walking by. We have seen the portable credit card readers that thiefs use to steal credit card numbers, but you still have to hand him the card for it to work.
So, who else out there is developing a Felica sniping device too?
The Octopus Card system has been implemented in Hong Kong for a few years. It's an alternative to micropayment (cash and change). I don't know much about the Japanese system, but comparing it for credit card to quite a jump.
An AC elsewhere in this discussion has mentioned that there is a yes/no button to approve the charges; it isn't just waving that is necessary (whew, what a relief). It seems the article was being a bit too optimistic about the convenience aspect. Maybe it was just marketing-spin.
But, I agree that if the phone is stolen all bets are off. Of course the thief will have no compunction about pressing the yes button all over town. So it looks like the phone needs to have a PIN entry feature as well.
"You'd be liable for some charges, not others"
That's only if you can report the theft before the thief gains entry to your home... Since you have no phone, it's possible that this might take you longer to report it. You may not even be aware that your phone has been stolen for a while. Then, if you deactivate your phone account, how do you enter your own home when you get back?
"[they are] looking into a biometric reader instead"
They can look into it all they want but biometrics aren't a complete solution either. Once thieves have captured your biometric data it just becomes another number for them to store away, just a bit longer than the typical ID. Then, stupid banks and marketing organizations will start requiring it, thinking it is more secure and it will eventually become useless for other purposes.
It's paradoxical isn't it, how a move toward greater security actually turns out to be less in the long term?