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Novell Swings Back at Ballmer
Jeff.Ingalls writes "Novell Inc has issued a response to Microsoft Corp CEO Steve Ballmer's recent anti-Linux memo, using the same reports cited by Ballmer in defense of the open source operating system."
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Trolling using another account since 2005.
Why does Ballmer do this? Why does he make such idiotic, easy-to-refute statements? For example, from the article:
Ballmer noted: "Yankee's study concluded that, in large enterprises, a significant Linux deployment or total switch from Windows to Linux would be three to four times more expensive - and take three times as long to deploy - as an upgrade from one version of Windows to a newer release".
What he failed to point out, according to Novell, was Yankee's statement: "In summary, the Yankee Group's TCO survey found that Linux does offer compelling cost savings, economies of scale and technical advantages, as many a satisfied user will attest...
I can't believe that guy is a top executive of a major corporation. He makes Darl look like a business genius in comparison. He impresses me as some kind of jackass, who just HAPPENED to be in the right place at the right time, and is where he is DESPITE rather than BECAUSE of his business acumen.
It seems that you almost have to have your head up your ass as firmly as Ballmer or Darl to get anywhere in corporate america.
It's examples like this which prove to me that I will never be an executive of any company but my own. I am just too attracted to honesty and integrity.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
But ultimately this is all just noise. I think we can all foresee the rise of FOSS and the gradual decline of Windows over the next decade or so. Ballmer was right: developers, developers, developers. And guess what? Developers like freedom.
I'm in the process of getting rid of our Windows 2000/Exchange server and moving to use Groupwise running off Suse Linux. We're planning to have it all done by January of next year.
I'm excited and anxious to get this done, I'm looking forward to a lower TCO.
Brandon Petersen
Get Firefox!
Wow. Last time I had to use their stuff was in 1998... Good to hear they've gone the Linux route, in any case.
Novell have done some good things recently and I will be eternally grateful but I'm still not convinced buying into their current mindset (esp re: Mono) isn't some faustian pact I'll later regret.
Hmmmm....maybe drinking might help.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
Ballmer's conclusion that "It's pretty clear that the facts show that Windows provides a lower total cost of ownership than Linux; the number of security vulnerabilities is lower on Windows, and Windows' responsiveness on security is better than Linux; and Microsoft provides uncapped IP indemnification of their products, while no such comprehensive offering is available for Linux or open source."
I have no idea where he came up with those points. He has no problems blantently lieing to everyone I see. Ballmer for president '08?
This sounds a lot like Kerry vs. Bush by minute ...
I'm just wondering when will Ballmer call someone a flip-flopper?
no OS can prevent stupidity/ignorance
"Invent something foolproof, and they'll just make a better fool"
Error 407 - No creative sig found
So when is Novell going to put together a Linux inspired dance ensemble to counter Ballmer's moves?
A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
Ballmer's target audience does not really cares whether people tell the truth, they're members of the "Nobody got fired for buying IBM-->Microsoft" brigade. All they want is reassurance and a stream of soundbites to keep them warm and fuzzy. If the repots are doctored, they don't care.
The last thing an IT manager really wants to do is switch from Windows to Linux just because of TCO. In any switch, shit happens and the IT manager gets heat which (s)he does not want. The CFO might get on his case periodically to reduce IT spending and Ballmer provides ammo to go back to the CFO to show it won't save. That this is all based on lies doesn't really matter.
Corporations are primarily political entities where people prefer to hide from problems than address them.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Step 1 - Sue Microsoft
Step 2 - embrace linux
Step 3 - Sue IBM
Step 4 - Sell worthless stock at inflated price
linux is just a buzzword to the suits
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I find it absolutely hilarious that the ad running at the top of this article is for Microsoft's "Get the Facts" program itself. Whatever puts food on the table, eh Taco?
...instead of a news article about it?
here
phozz
It's murphey's often mis-quoted law, "If it's in any way possible for the pilot [in a computer's case, user] to screw things up, he will screw things up."
(I may have misquoted also, but at least it's closer to what Murphey actually said than "If something can go wrong, it will go wrong.")
Here.
"Create something even a fool could use and only a fool will want to."
What? You don't want to improve the quality of fools in the world? God knows they couldn't be any worse.
Developers don't like to be told what to do, but more importantly the freedom allows problems to be fixed more effectively and efficiently than closed source.
As an example (one of zillions), there are two widely used programming tools for the Philips LPC21xx microcontrollers. One is written by Philips (closed) and the other by a guy called Martin (open). In approx January tried to use both and neither worked with the hardware combination I have. The code needed to do a retry if comms failed at start up. With Martin's tool I was able to find the problem, fix it and send the patch to Martin. The patch became mainstream within a few days. I also told Philips of the problem and how to fix it, but AFAIK this has not yet been done in Philips' code.
Without open source, progress is very difficult.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
The customer doesn't want to hear the truth, he wants his hand held, and he wants to hear that spending his money is going to make it all better and life will be good. He may know its all lies, but he still needs to hear it or he won't feel good.
I guess it's not surprising that it was true for befuddled consumers and small businessmen buying what were, in 1985, expensive toys. The sad thing is that this seems to be equally true for CIOs of big corporations twenty years later.
See what I've been reading.
funny, MAC owners have nonoe of the trouble windows owners have.
and they CERTIANLY are no more savvy than a typical windows owner.
Mac owners havea bizzare expectation from their computer.
they expect it to work.
windows owners expect it to break.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
well, sure, but a good designer can mitigate the consequences of said stupidity/ignorance.
Forget about indemnification from Microsoft. You'll be lucky if Microsoft acknowledges any problems of any kind at all.
The EULA clearly states that Microsoft does not assert their products' suitability for any purpose whatsoever. And if a mistake is made in keeping records of licensing, they are more likely to sue you than to indemnify you.
Does the Microsoft TCO factor in the wasted hours and paperwork associated with keeping track of various licenses?
Related with this, Novell has created Unbending the Truth, a web site discussing Microsoft's skewed Get The Facts Linux-bashing campaign.
Alejo.
Novell is only a 150lb monkey these days. But he does have a sling with a rock in it. He just needs to wait for the 800lb gorilla to stand on the edge of a cliff boasting, and get in one good shot.
Yes they do. I know plenty of people with Macs and they call me just as often as anyone else because they cant get the internet to "come on", or the cd player wont "rewind", etc.
You just swallowed too much slashbot horseshit to see the real world.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I just can't help cringing whenever I see Novell associated with Linux. For the past ten years, Novell has leapt onto every industry fad at it's peak, proclaimed it as the saviour of the company, then watched it die underneath them . Anyone else remember SuperNOS? How about 'Netware - the fastest Java execution environment'? Or the Wordperfect debacle? Maybe we should try getting Novell interested in the wonderfullness of .Net.
Here's hoping that Novell can break it's loosing streak - and not drag Linux down with it.
Not FUD, just CYA
Charlie's Magic
Two years ago, we trashed Outlook/Exchange for a Lotus email system, and today, we're still fighting our users who are still refusing to accept the system. They think that MS Exchange is king, and that it's the only system worthy of the name "email system". They have been dragged kicking and screaming away from MS brand of heroin and two years later are still having severe withdrawals. A significant number of our users have even deliberately done stuff to sabotage the sucessful migration away from Outlook/Exchange and no matter how hard management orders them to comply, they refuse. We can't fire them either, since we are a govt organization :-(.
" A sales woman at a little value added retail computer shop I used to work for said (of me): ``Don't let him talk to the customers, he's an engineer, he'll tell them the truth!''"
I talked to customers all the time. Some transfered from sales. I didn't have to lie. I was however careful in the way I phrased the truth.
"The customer doesn't want to hear the truth, he wants his hand held, and he wants to hear that spending his money is going to make it all better and life will be good. He may know its all lies, but he still needs to hear it or he won't feel good."
Maybe instead of viewing this as a negative. You should see it as an incentive to produce a product that no one has to lie about?
"I guess it's not surprising that it was true for befuddled consumers and small businessmen buying what were, in 1985, expensive toys. The sad thing is that this seems to be equally true for CIOs of big corporations twenty years later."
Computers have come far, but they still haven't come far enough. That's why people feel nervous around computers.
...have driven away a big chunk of the /. readership, I guess they are getting kind of desperate.
Do Mac owners have utilities for checking spelling?
http://www.busyweather.com/
Also just look at Microsoft's "strategy", it's merely prolonging the status-quo, they don't even try to sell Windows to for example the 80% of webmasters who don't run it. They know that every customer lost won't come back because in the long run Linux is a lot cheaper.
The history of Microsoft will be:
It will take some time, but Microsoft won't be able to stop Linux.
You can read the real thing here. With a little more digging, I found you can even get your own Novell T-shirt if you can find / post any unique anti-M$ FUD stuff on the Internet. (unique = not already posted by Novell or Microsoft).
" disagree; simplified, easily digestible sound-bites -- even if factually incorrect -- sell. People like them, because if all of their information is derived from them they just don't have to think. "
That's not the ONLY way to look at the situation.
People are busy! Busy staying alive, and trying to have a comfortable life. People CAN NOT be experts in everything (there's too much information coming too fast). That's part of the reason food's come prepackaged (sliced cheese), and our news the same way.
How many buy the O'Reilly books because they're compact sources of information, sized to get the points across?
...despite all of Ballmer's inane rantings and memos, and without the backing of an enormous multinational corporation with $50+ BILLION in its coffers, Linux keeps plodding on and gaining ground _every single day_.
And that, Le Marteau, is why.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
Developers, developers, developers!
Better yet, a new reality TV show!
The Survivor OS!
Computired Idol!
Boot Story!
etc...
I live in Soviet Canuckistan you insensitive clod!
If you're an average Joe User, who'd you believe? Some vulgar bearded guy who says some documents were faked, or the President of the US?
High ranks in businesses ACTUALLY BELIEVE what Microsoft says. "It's Microsoft, why not believe them?". I've SEEN IT.
Ballmer doesn't lie to the people who don't trust them (DOH), but to the people who DO believe every piece of crap that Microsoft says.
Think of Microsoft as a "software cult". Opposers are qualified as evil, while supporters spend lots of resources in maintaining credibility behind a wall that is forbidden to cross.
W is less predictable. He flipflopped on the Department of Homeland Security, the 9-11 commission, fiscal conservancy, states' rights, small government, isolationism, etc etc etc. You might have been able to predict his idiocy, but not such extreme shifts in policy.
Infuriate left and right
Step 1 - follow the leader
Step 2 - wait till people adopt Linux
Step 3 - silently switch from Novell to a free version of Linux.
Step 4 - I don't need you now, fool! BWA HAHAHAHA!
Frankly, Novell is literally putting too much at risk. Maybe it's because they got no choice?
I tought that in a windows world you did not own anything, so why al the TCO studies?
That's pages of text. How the hell is that supposed to sell anything to a suit or a PHB? If you're very lucky, a PHB will throw it derisively at the closest passing nerd to read. If the nerd renders an opinion in favour of Novell, the PHB will reject it because he thought Novell was the codename for a new microsoft product.
I don't know if its a joke or FUD or true, but I would take that with a grain of salt. An average IQ of 85 in mississippi? 85 is bordering on mentally retarded. I can't except that.
And its too black and white. Everything greater than 100 is kerry, and every less than 99 is bush.
I suggest we all send Novel a can of banana-flavored protein powder to beef up in it's fight against microsoft, and attempt to provide viable choice to the corporate computing community.
I start wondering if Microsoft has Michael Moore working for them...
When you want a computer system that works, just choose Linux. When you want a computer system that works, just, choose
...And I'll say it again. For all the work Novell and the rest might be doing in evangelising Linux to corporate drones, they're still selling a stock product. A lot of people who've bought an assembly-line produced hamburger (and no, I'm not naming any specific vendors here, so nobody needs to get up in arms) will surely know that in terms of freshness, price, flavor, and nutritional value, you can't do much better than buying the actual ingredients and making it yourself. Certainly, the mass-produced burger is *convenient*...but using your own initiative has all of the advantages listed above.
To my mind, exactly the same principle applies with Linux. For my residential system, I downloaded Linux From Scratch and built it exactly the way I wanted it from the ground up, following on with the expansion volume from that site as well. Although I haven't had to do a commercial deployment myself before, from the reading I've done I know I'd still get LFS, work on adapting a version of the ports system for it (which I'm currently doing) and then use the information at infrastructures.org as well in order to build a rock solid system in exactly the configuration asked for.
From everything I've seen, self-determination is largely a prerequisite for UNIX use. Predigested package deals might work for Windows...but I think the Open Group's UNIX slogan of Live Free or Die definitely applies...and those sorts of terms do not imply to me that hand-holding is an option.
A desire to refrain as much as possible from exercising either intelligence or responsibility genuinely seems to be the bedrock of the corporate ethos in most cases...I think until that changes, companies like Microsoft are going to continue to hold sway. Corporations seem to want a software company which will do virtually everything for them...and because it only increases their level of control, Microsoft have been only too happy to oblige.
Wow, a web page cites a source so it must be true right?
Ummmmm no I'm afraid not. I need not refute the study based on its merits because the study was made up.
Check out the Wikipedia entry on the source. Scroll to the bottom. The authors never broke down IQ below national levels to get state IQs. The numbers cited in that chart came from a hoax--they were likely made up as a joke to make Gore supporters look smarter than Bush supporters from the previous election. Using the results of standardised tests show much less gap between the "smartest" and "dumbest" states and nearly no correlation with their voting preferences.
Also, contrary to the citation, that publication made use of multiple IQ tests conducted at different times (it did not rely predominately on one IQ test), and did some fudging to obtain its numbers (UK was set at 100 and the rest of the world adjusted accordingly, even though IQ tests generally regard the world average to be 100 instead of 90 as they calculated)
I use Windows Server 2003, I use Solaris. Novell can take SuSE Linux 9.x and Enterprise Server 8 and 9 and shove it up their ass, I am not going to change. i will change if i see a compelling reason to change, I dont see it, so i stay with what I like and what has proven time and time again for me to work very, very well
Must be nice to have so much money to throw away. The initial investment in your platforms of choice must've been quite impressively high.
For me, besides money, SQL slammer was enough to make me start wondering and Blaster and its varients were quite compelling reasons for me to look at changing.
Actually there will come a day that the OS can prevent stupidity and ignorance...
The day the OS has the ability to terminate the user.
know it's the:
wrong OS
on the
wrong platform
at the
wrong time.
People who speak in metaphores should shampoo my crotch.
I've heavily managed both GroupWise and Exchange systems. While comparing older versions, GroupWise is the winner hands down from an ease of administration perspective, but today, I'd easily hand it to Exchange. I don't see a whole lot (if any) more time devoted to Exchange than GroupWise, AND, I get a platform that my users are used to, that they like, and that I can very easily build on with an abundance of third party software. To be fair, I DO like GroupWise, but given a choice, would pick Exchange.
/. readers nailed the baloney in Ballmer's missives when they first came to slashdot The digs at Linux from Microsoft bigwigs have gotten more strident and less factual than some recent politcal advertisements. To me this signals one thing: Microsoft has finally, at the highest levels, gotten as scared as /. readers have always said it SHOULD be. Here we have Ballmer, a shrewd manager and businessman saying pure nonsense that he could not possibly believe. A few weeks back /. reported a Gates interview blaming the flakey reputation of his joined-at-hip browser/os duo on the way users use the products...do you think Billy Billions really can be that stupid and still have made the company as dominant as it is? Billy bull and Ballmy bull! This is pure desperation talking at us
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Someone mentioned cost of training... imagine 50 or so year old lady, who FINALLY figured out that "ANY' is not a key and that you can have more than one explorer version running at the same time. Okay, this might be an extreme example, but seriously, if you're a bank, training everyone to switch might be a pretty penny. Even Novell hasn't switched all employees over, which tells us how slow of the process this might be. Then you have to deal with things such as proprietary Powerpoint, "database" called Access and so on. I am sure M$ will capitalize on this for many years to come. After all, this is part of the business model they seem to follow, make users upgrade all the time, thus giving them more money.
Funny, I never got hit by SQL Slammer, Blaster or any of the variants. In fact I have never had an intrusion on any of my systems. Luck or just the fact I know what I am doing. Another thing, many Linux advocates and preachers think that the Linux OS makes them safe and free from security concerns. It doesnt.
Since when was that microsoft's model? I guess the blue screens were for my own good for all those years.
There's a big difference.
The saying goes "Lie to yourself long enough and you might believe it" not "Lie to yourself long enough and it will come true."
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
I rest my case...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I suppose if one wanted to look more deeply, there are even quite a few similarities between the cult of Chairman Bill and the cult of the late Chairman Mao.
Both used sound bites, vapid slogans misdirection and other skillful use of propaganda. Just look at computer magazines from 10 years ago compared to today. Product reviews and evaluations gradually disappeared all together to be replaced by hype or vapid reviews covering only Bill's products. Even Consumer reports has been starting to toe the line for Bill and leave out discussions of competitors' products.
Also, both are big fans of a centralized, command economy. Though Chairman Bill lacks the magnetic personality, he nevertheless commands a cult-like following especially among MBAs and small time turbocapitalists wannabes. Both have used lack of interoperability to further their interests. After Mao's book burnings in the 60's few (on the mainland) could read the handful of surviving books as these were in traditional characters and they had only been taught the strange 'simplified' characters. Bill's implementation of this includes not just the embrace, extend, extinguish strategy used with many protocols and standards (Kerberos, TCP, HTTP, HTML, etc) but even to drive forced upgrades with in his own product line like MS-Office, especially MSO 2003.
Mao insisted on blind faith and obedience and put forth the mythical Lei Feng as an example. Lei Feng just put his head down and did work for everybody else and let Mao and the party do the thinking. Chairman Bill's corresponding gimmick is The Next Version/Upgrade/Service pack, which will be more stable, more secure, easier to use, solve all problems, bring world peace, make coffee for you and sleep in the wet spot -- all one has to do is keep one's head down, work selflessly for MS and let Bill and his fine group in Redmond do the thinking.
Shit. I bet there's a thesis in all that.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Countries with an average IQ higher than the US (98) ( source is Richard Lynn ):
Hungary 99Poland 99
Spain 99
Belgium 100
China 100
New Zealand 100
Singapore 100
United Kingdom 100
Sweden 101
Switzerland 101
Austria 102
Germany 102
Italy 102
Netherlands 102
Taiwan 104
Japan 105
Korea, South 106
Hong Kong 107
Rob Enderle's excellent new book: Everything I needed to know about Computer Science I learned in Marketing School
Balmer is like the dog that caught the car.
I would think that slashdot posters would more easily identify which OS is "unsafe at any speed".
Or are you all too young to know what got Nader into the limelight originally?
Good point! So emacs or vi?
His arrogance is very well placed, unlike the arrogance of our two Presidential candidates. In fact, it is refreshing to see arrogance of such high calibre.
Our cheif weapons are blatancy, obviousness, and easy refutation!
dude.. dont die.. no ones forcing you to do anything.
have fun.
The companies spew out as much crap about how bad each others products are as the users of those products do. Nothing is proven on either end in my eyes.
Developers DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS. Good ol ballmer talking out of his ass 99% of the time.
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #8000FF, all my base are belong to... Louie's?!
________
Entranced by anime since late summer 2001 and loving it ^_^