Slashdot Mirror
Neuros Audio Releases Its Hardware Schematics
iswm writes "Neuros Audio has released the schematics to their Neuros Digital Audio Computer. Now with open source firmware, hardware schematics, ogg support, tons of other cool features, and an amazing price tag, The Neuros is looking like an awesome competitor in the audio player market."
It can be the best product ever, because it is geeky... I am not sure it will beat the iPod which has become a de facto standard.
I however am looking forward to see it IRL.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
"ipod killer" I wonder if anyone will make an "Ipod Killer Elmo"
This is totally insecure, but very convenient.
Maybe Slashdot can make some money by letting them license their name. Then all the Nerds could recognize each other in real life by observing their official Slashdot audio player.
Ogg support is very nice, but I hope this device can play other formats as well. One of the things that is making media-playing consumer devices so popular today is the support for all different formats of media. DVD players that can play every type of file format out there, and car cd players that can play mp3. The key to success is multi format support.
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
I have one of these ( practically smuggled from US), and it is impressive what they did. It works perfect, it's open, it works with Linux, you can hack it, you can broadcast radio, etc, etc.
Kudos to the Neuros Audio! Keep it open!
So far all the hardware players had that "Ipod Killer" tag, which isn't the TFA :).
Open firmware is cool - but hardware schematics are more iffy. All in all, I'd put open firmware over hardware schemas any day :)
Have you seen Simputer General Public License which Simputer uses for their hardware ?. I suppose Neuros has some kind of licensing model at least for defining copyright and that kind of stuff. This is kinda blind faith to re-use or work on.Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
I just ordered one about 2 days ago. They're working right now on audible, flac, and mpc support, and with the open sourcing of the firmware and sync manager it's guaranteed they'll get there. Great little box.
I actually like this idea -- in order to "kill" the iPod (or somesuch nonsense) you'd actually need a simultaneous music store/sync software/player package that was so much better than the iPod that it would be worth the switch. I think it makes more sense to add features and hack-friendliness to get the appeal of niche markets. Smaller groups, perhaps, but just as loyal -- hmm...sounds like a popular fruit-flavored computer brand.
Why exactly ?
For a device supposedly aimed at developers, and with as big as of a hard drive as this thing has, why doesn't it support FLAC?
(What would be doubly-nice is if it supported real-time recording to FLAC from a line level input, but I'll bitch and whine about the absence of that feature when they get around to having it at least *play* FLAC...)
Their product is awesome ... 'except it's the size of a brick. ... and I'll decide for us all.
Seriously, nobody wants an audio player with a backpack harddrive. At least I don't
I like my iPod alive, thank you.
Does anybody know if such a project is being undertaken for the Neuros? I might even pick one up and hack on it myself for my own edification.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
I actually have a Neuros. I bought one about 2 years ago. Honestly, they're a lot larger than ipods, so I doubt that they will catch on with the portable audio market. It's not really 'pocket-size.'
However, it is perfect for carrying in a backpack. The built in mic is sensitive enough for recording interviews, and the harddrive can hold alot more than other portable recorders you can buy.
FM transmitting- I love it, but it's not really powerful enough here in the Washington, DC area with all the background noise to be picked up more than 3 or so feet away.
The sound quality is decent, but the included headphones broke within two months. I did go jogging with them, so that might be the reason.
"It can currently play Ogg, mp3, wma (non-DRM), and wav."
Yes, but can it play Doom3?
--
I actually *do* type this every time.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Also on ThinkGeek, the product cannot be sold outside the US, unlike the iPod. Sigh.. I was looking very much forward to it!!
If anyone can hear me, slap some sense into me But you turn your head, and I end up talking to myself
No FireWire, no sale
...but does it have breakout?
Can't wait for the hack so that it no longer requires Win-blows
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
It'll play non-drm'd WMA's also.
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
Somebody has put up a bounty for Tetris on the Neuros. Good luck, though. :)
v ie w/Main/TetrisContest
http://neuros-firmware.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/
You mean if I spend like 1000 f-ing dollars on a music player, you'll give me a price break? Gee, thanks. /sarcasm
itadakimasu
The physical dimensions are just too big to be able to compete with most consumer-oriented portable hdd players. If they could make it the size of the iPod, they would really have a huge chance of making a dent in the iPod's market share.
ITS HUGE (I believe it uses standard laptop harddrives. It's easy to upgrade size though, just buy any ol' laptop drive.)
I've NEVER hooked my Neuros up to a Windows machine.
I use a sync program called NDBM (neurosdbm.sourceforge.net). It's written in Java and runs perfectly on Linux.
There are other Sync managers, too, if you refuse to install Java. Sorune (http://www.sorune.tk/) is written in Perl-Tk.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Anyone know anything about the recording quality of this device in lossless formats?
I am looking for a lossless device for concert recording.
This would be an awsome product to hack on. I've been thinking about putting together a car-based mp3 player, and with the firmware now open and most of the functionality there that I want, this might be a better platform to work off of. I was originally planning on going with Mini-ITX hardware (or nano-ITX when it came out), Linux BIOS + LFS system on CF, and entirely custom software (with heavy using existing libraries). This would be much simpler, and result in just as good of a system.
On the I don't think it stands a chance at doing well in the marketplace though until it cuts it's size down some. The seperate player and hardrive backpack is fine (and infact prefered) for a car based system, but way to clunky for a handheld.
Lastly, speaking of OGG has anyone had any real-life experiance with the MPIO HD-300? I saw it in Best Buy, and it looked like a really nice system - 20 GB, about the same size as the iPod, felt solid, played OGG MP3 and WMA, was 20 bucks less than the iPod, and supposedly has significantly better battery life. This claim is backed up by the fact that in the past thier flash models have had the best battery life in the industry. On the other hand thier website has horrible english, so I would expect support to be lacking, and I can't find any sites that have actually reviewed the device (just regurgitated the press release, let users post uninformed opinions, and then called it a review). Anyone have some real info to add to this? Especially about its reliability/quality and how well it works with Linux?
I think a lot of people (myself included) buy iPod despite its price tag because of its beauty. It is designed so well that people are willing to fork over the extra bucks. As the saying goes, "Make it functional, make it usable, but above all, make it beautiful."
So you think by releasing schematics they make it easy for competitors?
Tellyawhat: any other established company that wanted schematics could pay a single engineer a month's contract and would get the compete schematic. It's less likely this would be so easily obtainable in the oss crowd, since that would depend on someone with the skills and equipment needed to perform the operation volunteering their time.
You think you could just take those schematics and go into competition with them? Or better still just go around them and build your own?
I am 100% certain you would quickly discover you could not even begin to compete on price - that is, unless you have the resources to put together a hundred thousand or so.
Opening up the platform like this sets a great precedent. They can evolve the player more efficiently while fostering a loyal community. I wish'em the best... and I think I just found my new portable music player.
I've seen the Neuros. I've used the Neuros. You guys are getting all excited about hacking an MP3 player that just can't play with the big boys yet.
Size-wise and interface-wise, the Neuros has a long way to go to compete with iPod and Carbon.
I mean, I like open-source, too. Open-source doesn't always mean 'better'. Get me a smaller Neuros with a better interface, and we'll talk.
I've got a Neuros...the USB1.1 version from about two years back. I gotta say -- it's a sweet device.
-- I like the swappable backpack idea because it makes for cheaper upgrading and the ability for more than one person to use the same device with minimal difficulty.
-- I absolutely LOVE the integrated FM broadcast. This hit the market before everyone and their mother was making add-ons for this functionality, and it's still a really handy feature. It means that _I_ always get to hear my music in other people's cars, because no one else has this ability!
-- HiSi (the song-identifier) is a pretty nifty gimick, too, although of minimal use (more to the point is the built-in FM reciever...something that I think EVERY audio player should have -- it costs about 20 cents to include at this point, why not do it?!?!)
(disclaimer at this point -- mine IS the old version)
!!!HOWEVER!!!
The one failing of the Neuros is in its interface. Navigation is painfully slow. You cannot queue up songs while it's playing. Organizing songs into playlists inexplicably takes about 3 or 4 seconds once you've decided upon a song and selected "Add to my playlist". There is no way to play a series of albums, so you are stuck playing alphabetically by song title, by artist (and then within the artist by song title) or album-by-album. See previous statment about creating custom playlists. Oh yeah, and for some reason, it takes about 3 seconds to boot each time you start it. My PC starts faster!!
So, to put it lightly, the interface plain SUCKS! And ultimately, that's what matters. I love the tech aspect of this device. The open-standards are awesome (ogg support used to require a separate version of the firmware -- dunno if that's still true); there's a thriving developer's community which is fully supported by the company. Their customer service is phenominal (a broken mini-audio jack took 5 days to fix -- shipping time to Chicago included!). But the interface needs a lot of work.
And the interface of an audio player is the make-it or break-it point, IMHO. It's what you see every day. How quickly can you play your music? Good interfaces are invisible. You don't notice that they are there. You just notice that you can get the job done and do it quickly. I think this is more important in the portable-audio market than anywhere else. If I have to make the decision whether or not to turn on my device because there is a 10-second lead-in before music starts and a 5-second end sequence, then they've lost me...
I haven't had a chance to get my hands on a generation 2 device yet, so perhaps there has been a massive improvement. However, as of now, my next audio player purchase will be an iPod -- unless someone can point me to a better interface!
~i = an imaginary being~
I have a Neuros and the darn thing has given me nothing but problems. I guess that's what you get when you buy a product when it first comes out. I hear the newest one's are being manufactured better, but be warned about the original models.
A list of the problems I've had:
Randomly formatted my disc a few times when I first got it.
The battery charger plug on the device became unsoldered twice (each time I had to return the device to be fixed with a 4 to 6 week turnaround). They told me it must be the plug I was using to recharge it (I used the car charge I bought from them, and the wall AC adapter that came with the device).
Shortly after getting my free upgrade to USB2.0, the device stopped functioning (could not read the disc). I called tech support, and they actually told me to hit it quite rigorously on the side to get the needle of the hard drive to "unstick". I guess the Toshiba HDs they bought were faulty, and that is what Toshiba told them to recommend to their customers if the needle became stuck. What do you know, it worked!!!
Since then, the only problem I've had is that the fuse in my car charger blew, but I can fix that on my own.
Has worked great for what it does, just pray you don't get the beta.
what is the price
Forever silent on the slashdot message boards, I felt like I needed to chime in here.
The Neuros team needs to refocus its efforts on producing a reliable product. I purchased a Neuros earlier this year and it was remarkably flaky. It is indeed packed with features, to be sure, but when the battery life is less than one hour within two weeks of use, it makes your features less appealing. I had a screen failure, software bugs, and sound quality issues all within my limited exposure to this device. I'm pretty flexible as a tech consumer, but this was just too much.
Anyway, I would caution any and all people out there considering buying this product to really do your research and make absolutely sure that you really want this mp3 player. Frankly, I found that the headaches associated with its use were astoundingly painful. As much as I wanted to love this device, I would place it far far below the iRiver or iPod in terms of appeal.
Picture Caller Id.
Yes, cameras in phones are usually not even reasonable quality.
No, not all uses of cameras require great quality.
Your "stupid extra" can easily be someone else's "I can't read or remember phone numbers, but I can recognize a picture of [Mommy/Daddy]!"
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
I hope they offer models without MP3 support because I don't want to pay a license fee for a format I don't have. All my music is ogg encoded because, for a long time, it was difficult to get an mp3 encoder. I'm not about to re encode everything to yesterday's, technically inferior, non free format.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I, too, have had some issues with the player. In fact, lots of people have. The support forums are absolutely flooded with people who have had problems with their Neuros.
However, I have to say, that DI has stepped up to the plate and made things right for everybody I've spoken with on the message boards and on IRC. Most of the problems are due to firmware bugs that were worked out (or, at least, worked around) - but DI has been good about fixing the hardware problems, too.
They have a very reasonable battery replacement policy ($12 + shipping), and have even been resonable about people "hacking" their players (swapping hard disks, doing the FM transmit antenna mods, etc.). Basically, they stand behind their product 100%.
However, I would caution people outside the States to consider the cost of shipping in case your unit ever has to go back to DI. That's the real killer.
Although I haven't had a chance to excercise it's features too much yet, it definitely has an 'open source' feel to it.. yes I'm stereotyping, but by that I mean that it does a ton of really cool things and is functional but seems to be lacking that last bit of polish. A third party syncing agent (ndbm) is preferable to the official one, third party firmware (GarBage) is preferable to the official one etc... In order to really get the most out of a Neuros you really have to have some of the hacker ethic.
That said, having open source firmware is great, the remaining polish could conceivably come from anywhere..
Yeah, whatever you do, don't buy a MD player. Those things play for two weeks on a single AA, never crash, respond quickly, use cheap media, have great sound quality, and my screen still works. (Hell, my MZ-1 from 1993 still works, except for the battery of course).
You should definitely turn listening to music on the go into a major engineering undertaking.
A) Just because it's NOT a camera phone doesn't mean it can't have a color display.
B) I never said a thing about the quality of these cameras.
C) Why are you calling your toddler on a cell phone (as implied by your "[Mommy/Daddy]")?
Actually I would even disagree with this post. When I emailed DI about the problems I had with my device, I was shuffled around to a number of different departments with little attempt at a proper fix. Eventually I got tired of running up minutes on my cell phone and decided to bag the whole thing and go with the (wince) iPod.
Thank goodness I ordered through their website and got the 30-day moneyback guarantee. I would absolutely recommend this to ANYone buying a Neuros. Getting it from a cheapy store could mean you're stuck with a $300 link to Neuros' Customer Service department with no other options.
Upon returning my Neuros, I had to wait for nearly five weeks for the credit to be posted to my card. At this point, I was calling them semi-daily trying to get the matter closed. Frankly, I was very displeased with the whole affair.
I bought mine two weeks ago and I'd recommend checking out american techpushers.. It's a small, independant business, the guy behind it is very active in the community and he jumps through hoops to keep customers happy. (Probably a good idea since the neuros community forums are quite frank and his business viability is tied directly to positive feedback - hence this plug ;)
The jb3 has an optical input and records at full uncompressed 16/48 (or 16/44 if you prefer) and they can be found very cheaply (under $200) on auction sites. They come in 20 and 40gb models but can be upgraded/hacked to a 60-80GB+ (?) hard drive.
I own six original Neuros USB 1.1 devices. Five of them are 128MB Flash units. One is the 20GB HDD unit.
One of these does have a problem...apparently with the flash memory. I've updated firmwares in the rest of them and they work well. I am quite fond of my Neuros units.
It may be you got a bad unit. It does happen.
On another note, I just realized that since I have multiple of them, I really ought to figure out what the plural of Neuros is...
You can also get a 256MB embedded flash version for $140.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
about $ 250 for the 20GB model, and add $ 50 per 20GB up to a maximum of 80GB, with otherwise identical features...
Very nice price tag for this kind of functionality!
And please mod anyone down with sigs and content lik ethis.
/. to turn into a massive pyramid scheme?
Or do we really want
Why, "Neuroses", of course... Just depends on your pronunciation.
I own a Neuros - I've had it for the past four or five months. I have to say that I am pretty happy with it.
Initially the UI was a little clunky, but with successive Firmware updates it has gotten much better.
The unit is bulkier compared to the iPod, but it plays almost any file format - MP3, WMA, OGG...
Tech support is also amazing. I had a problem with the unit not recharding properly. I sent it over to them and they fixed the unit and sent it back to me in about two weeks. Very prompt.
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
I like
Take a look at my link on the Neuros forums. We had a great discussion on what the plural of Neuros was. Unfortunately the Kathryn Born (The CEO's sister)tells us that th plural is Neuros units. :P (easiest way to find it is to probably search for posts by khyron)
It is? With a market-share of less than 1.5% can someone please tell me how on earth they can remotely be a "competitor"?
Hell, HP became number 2 overnight simply by playing nice with Apple. Which just goes to show the sad state of affairs with the quality of competition that Apple is up against.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
You see the 'Cart' on their site. Click on it. It gives you the product catalog. For the lazy clickers here it ranges from $79 to $350.
Having read William Gibson's Neuromancer, I was wondering when I could have and maintain my own hardware for devices I own. Am I right in thinking that the firmware and some knowledge of the board layout will enable me to fix it and cannibalise the thing?
I think that this development puts this device in contention for the top of my portable HD/music want list -- against the iRiver.
An audio player that meets your needs, but now that's not good enough. You want one that _only_ plays ogg?
I'm a _huge_ fan and supporter of ogg, and you're really not helping any, please stop now.
No Comment.
I've got a lot of non-DRM AAC files in my collection ripped from CD to AAC. I'd prefer not to have to rip them again. I like the AAC format and audio quality.
Some people say they use that playfair thing to remove DRM from iTunes store purchases so they can play them on non-Apple hardware. What hardware is there out there that can play non-DRM AAC, anyway?
So can the Neuros play non-DRM AAC? Is that what some of those people are referring to?
When I ordered my Neuros, it came defective, right out of the box. I never was able to use the thing.
I could exchange it for a new one, but the company refused to pay the shipping both ways.
Instead I just sent it back for a refund.
You called tech support on your cellphone? You sure are one retarded person.
i bought a Neuros probly a year and a half ago, i use the battery quite a bit, and can still get an easy 5 hours of play time between charges (2 2 hour trips in the car plus some other running around). and that includes a fair amount of skipping around between tracks. i have had buggy firmware, but i was using a beta so thats expected
I would really like a player that had the ability to parse track tags and build BNF grammars for speech input based on the same.
Then I could say, "Artist Yello, Track Oh Yeah, Enqueue".
Okay, okay... I have the schematics and I'm on my way to order the parts and roll my own. I am afraid I'll have to get some surface soldering equipment and... uhhmmm... wait a minute! I think I'll have to find out how to make a multi-layer pc-board.
Uhhmm... I need some PCB layouts... Are they going to publish those too?
What are we, less-than-amateur-hobbyists, going to do now?
spent about five minutes browsing their homepage and learned all this. The only thing I couldn't seem to find was the price... (^_^) Back I go!
Click on the little shopping cart beside the product on the product page.
Schrodinger's cat is either dead or really pissed off...
I took a quick looks at the site, so I apologize if I'm off-base here.. Does the new Neuros (or the old one..) have gapless playback? Can I play an album liks it's supposed to be heard, or will I hear infuriating little gaps between the songs?
For all the Rio Karma bashing I've read on here, I see very little discussion of this (IMO) essential feature. The Karma's got it in spades. I playback albums that I ripped years ago before I even though about gapless playback and they play flawlessly. Try listening to Badly Drawn Boy without gapless playback. Bad things...
Mine arrived last night. Used it in the car today and it worked great. My drive goes from Frederick, MD to Columbia,MD. Kept it on 107.1 the whole time.
Then I found this this. I'm going to try it when I get home.
Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
I've had a Neuros for about 18 months now -- nice unit, but slow when downloading from the unit to my Mandrake 10 Linux box. It takes about 20 minutes to transfer about 50-60M or one night's rehearsal recordings. That works out to about 50K/sec, or about .1% of the speed you quoted.
.. you just have to whack the side of the unit to get it to stop.
.. almost like the unit needs to encode and dump the last five minutes, rather than just flush the last ten seconds and close the filehandle.
Every once in a while the HD goes into a skip-skip-skip-skip mode
Waiting for the 'end record' command to be accepted also takes a while
The fidelity is pretty darn good, and a charge covers a three hour rehearsal nicely. I wish there were better tools, but I guess I should get busy and write them if I feel motivated.
One final note -- the little (*) icon to the left of the battery symbol is a 'busy' icon. Don't press any buttons while that thing is on. Just wait till it's finished, then go ahead and do whatever.
They are as much a competitor to Apple in mp3 players, as Apple is to Microsoft in desktop OS's.
STFU about slashdot bias.
HUH?!?
Open source, open firmware, schematics... but Windows-only software support?
I'm just going to assume that's misleading/incorrect somehow, it probably works like any USB storage class device, but... how odd that they list only Windows OS support...
Ogg Vorbis support is indeed nice. Pay attention to Neuros development in the next few months. When it starts to support Musepack, the real fun will begin (twice the battery time, anyone?). For info - Musepack/MPC/MPEG+
Their FAQ says "10) What is the policy for international orders for Neuros products? For complete information on international policies, click here." but there is no link to click. Do you know what their international order policy is? Will they ship to Canada?
STFU about slashdot bias.
A few people are posting about what would be needed to create so-called 'iPod killers.' Now folks, I don't know what exactly happens, but it seems like once a product becomes mainstream, people like to:
1. proudly declare they don't use it (optionally including reasons that only make sense to them)
2. start an open source clone of it
3. and then evangelize it based on moral goodness
Regardless of the open source version's merit, you turn people off at step one. Now, I don't know what Apple has done to you, but a killer audio player is not formed out of spite for large corporations or the mainstream. It is made based on realizing where current players falter (battery life, size, UI) and improving on those. Nobody cares if the firmware is open source except the esoteric readers of Slash.
Seriously, how many projects do you start with the intent to 'kill' another product? And here is a player with Ogg support, now the hivemind complains that it doesn't support FLAC!
Their site is /.ed at the moment so I have a few questions.
First, does it have a line in?
Second, how much does it cost?
So I'll pass. Once Apple releases a product with these features, I'll buy one.
I found it.
STFU about slashdot bias.
the hardware issues are not going to go away, and i have seen no progress made on any of the software issues. yes its great that the design is open and the software runs in linux and the firmware is open, but it currently does not operate as advertised, so i returned mine very sad. until rio releases a karma with a bigger hard drive that does not explode, shows up as a USB mass storage device, allows sorting by folders, and adds an SD card, i will be using my laptop.
The hard disk-based iRiver players do what you describe, including recording direct to uncompressed WAV or optionally to MP3 at configurable bit rates. The line in is both analog and optical -- they have optical in and out, both.
The only problem is that they're buggy. Some people have reported recording glitches when the player goes to store the captured data to disk, i.e. periodic hiccups in the recording. I haven't really noticed it myself, but I normally record voice. A friend has recorded live music without seeing the problem, either, but enough people have reported it to raise my doubts. Also, there seem to be arbitrary recording length constraints in hardware. I believe they are dependent on the bit rate at which you're trying to record to some extent, but 2 hours seems to be the outside limit for a single file.
In the past, I might have said to hang on and iRiver would fix these problems with a firmware upgrade. I won't make that mistake again. iRiver's support for this product has been very poor since it was released, promising various firmware fixes and then never delivering, only to move on to whole new product lines while they leave the old customers with buggy hardware that doesn't do what they were told it would do.
So, proceed with caution. But I have had some decent results recording with the iRiver.
Breakfast served all day!
I remember when every electronic device you bought came with its schematic in the back of the owner's manual. Manufacturers didn't give up any rights by doing this back then. What's changed?
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
And the player responds, "No, no, you're too kind ... enqueue!"
If they are so reliable, why do you have 6 of them? My 40GB iPod is totally reliable and I only have 1.
the headphone output is rather noisy
?!?! My sound is the most excellent I've ever heard in a portable player. The only time I hear noise is because its in the track itself (ie: on analog recordings remastered for digital)
the FM broadcasting is weak
The FM broadcasting is as strong as it can legally be. If you want more you'll have to take it up with the FCC.
the menu system is slow to respond
Opinion. It works fine for me - in fact, scrolling works so fast I often end up overshooting the track I'm looking for.
no gapless playback
Not 100% gapless, but as close as it can be technically. I find most noticable gaps are imbedded within the tracks themselves and a bit of editing is all it takes.
navigation and synching are tedious on either the pc or player side
More opinion. Works fine for me.
I blame the batteries they use - they're huge and heavy. OTOH, they are standard off-the-shelf batteries and are the biggest reason why their battery replacement only costs $12 + shipping. Remember when the iPod battery policy was to buy a new iPod???
the battery does not last very long
I get an average of 6 hours on my 20GB model. How many hours should I be getting...?
It takes an idiot to do cool things - that's why it's cool!
I remember when every electronic device you bought came with its schematic in the back of the owner's manual. Manufacturers didn't give up any rights by doing this back then. What's changed?
Not only did Heathkits have assembly instructions "for dummies" (if you can correctly use a screwdriver, you're most of the way toward building a kit) and schematics, but also a "Circuit Description" section, and as I think back, that section had great value in my learning and understanding of electronics.
Towards the end of Heathkit that changed, not so much because of their philosophy, but because of technology. I recall mid-70's assembling a small desktop 4-function calculator, where the description told about the power supply, gas-discharge display scanning and keyboard scanning matrices, but nothing about the internal computations, which of course were all internal to one chip which had power, ground, and all the display/keyboard lines.
As far as your question, I believe schematics were mostly for the convenience of repair technicians, and as products became cheaper, less fixable and more throwaway, there was no more need for the schematic to be included.
Tag lost or not installed.
I have to say that while the Neuros has its problems, it's always been perfectly reliable for me. (with the exception of the time that I turned off the socket it was plugged into, then couldn't figure out why the battery wouldn't charge *oops*) The battery life in particular is amazing; I don't know how long it lasts because it just seems to keep going and going. The only time I managed to run it all the way down was when I used it two days in a row and forgot to charge it overnight.
I suspect the parent poster got a defective unit.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Maybe someone can figure out why the HD erases itself when you remove it from the unit.
Because I use them for recording. Sometimes, I record six different things in six different rooms (*gasp*) simultaneously!
you must have low standards for audio quality. my karma was silent when i pumped the volume all the way, but there was a consistent background hum/static on the neuros.
the FM broadcaster for $20 at best buy puts out a much stronger signal than the neuros did
the menu system is only quick to respond when you are not playing a track, once a track is loaded, it is >2-3 seconds before button presses are acknowledged
of all your disputes, the gapless is the weakest...the karma implemented PERFECT gapless playback, similar to software players winamp and xmms. all other hardware and software players i have used cannot do this and are thus imperfect replacements for CD players for me.
i never said it didn't work, i just implied the UI sucked
i shouldn't need to replace the battery for about 2-5 years if i take care of it, so using cheap batteries is not a good design decision IMHO.
i was able to get at best 3 hours with 256MB flash/40GB backpack. it was also annoying (although very common) that it would not take advantage of the USB power to recharge.
"The release of such documentation is a relatively new practice and one that remains quite controversial..."
Maybe it's new to kids running businesses today, but it was standard practice twenty years ago.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
I have one too. Its HUGE. Like a small paperback book. I doubt very few "fashion conscious" consumers are going to look at it, compare it to another device and pick it.
The build quality is pretty low too, I'm not the only one on the Neuros board with a drive that went bad after less than a year. The warranty is only 90 days too. Tech support even advises people to "tap it firmly" if the drive gets stuck. So they do have some serious problems. Maybe this has been addressed with their new hardware. Dunno.
On top of it, it has no where near the battery life of most mp3 players. Two 2.5 hours was pretty good, 3 was a rare miracle.
Its saving grace is that it can broadcast to FM, but depending on the radio market you're in you might have a hard time getting a good signal to your reciever. This isn't the Neuros fault. Its really the FCC limitations kicking in, but sadly my Neuros can't transmit below 91.something. So all those open low-wattage "college radio" stations that the iTrip and other devices use aren't available.
Right now I'm sporting the 128 meg backpack (I bought the 20gig/128 combo) and its a lot smaller, but hey its 128 lousy megs of music. The Neuros could really be a contender if they upped the quality and pushed out a model that can take SD or Compact flash cards instead of your two options: buy a big ass ugly hard drive backback with lousy battery life or buy the 128 meg backback. I believe they used to sell a 256 meg backback, but that's still pretty small, especially when it doesnt accept any other storage.
Also, my Neuros is USB 1.1, its only recently they started selling 2.0 backpacks. Also, Some people are confusing line-in with mic-in. The Neuros doesnt do mic-in, you'll need to buy a mic pre-amp to record live shows like you would with a minidisc recorder. The built in mic is lacking to say the least.
If the implementation was better (especially battery life) and if it had a smaller form factor it could really take off, but as it is, its kinda kludge and once I get tired of only having 128megs of storage I'll probably pick up the Creative Muvo 4gig. If you can live with these limitations, its a pretty cool device, but its not for me anymore.
you must have low standards for audio quality
Why "must" this be the only reasonable response to my "dispute"? Is this the only way you can envision why someone might have a different opinion than you? You obviously must need to always be right and have the last word so I retract my previous post and apologize for being such a loser.
It takes an idiot to do cool things - that's why it's cool!
... you can compile the firmware under Linux. Right now, you need to use the TI-provided Windows-based compiler (and you have to register to get it); but wouldn't it be great if someone figured out how to get gcc to compile for the TI DSP chip in the Neuros?
perl -e 'foreach(values %SIG){$_="IGNORE";}while(){}'
A) Just because it's NOT a camera phone doesn't mean it can't have a color display.
... I'm terribly sorry that this wonder has never happened for you)
A> no camera means the picture is much more difficult for John Citizen to get into his phone.
B) I never said a thing about the quality of these cameras.
B> It's just the usual argument (jack of all trades does none of them well), but you never mentioned it, point ceded.
C) Why are you calling your toddler on a cell phone (as implied by your "[Mommy/Daddy]")?
C> Your toddler has never asked to call you, or for you to call them? (perhaps you don't have kids? If you do
All I am pointing out is that there are *good* uses for a camera in a phone other than featurama. What I left inferred, but unsaid, in my previous comment is that there are many more people than just toddlers who cannot read yet. People whose memories fail them. There are also people who just find a photo of someone calling much more pleasant than just some tiny text of the number and name of the person calling.
I'm not saying that it is the way they are used most often, but I am saying it is more than just another feature added to incent consumers to spend more money.
Featurama does exist, and it _is_ usually at the detriment of something else, but cameras are not it.
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
Most players can't so what is your flaming, friking, trollish, point???
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I think he means real equipment, not hobby kits. I still have operator's manuals for HP tools (the then awesome 5 1/2 digit multimeter or the signal generator or ...) where the complete set of schematics is shown. You actually learn a lot when looking at what the designers had to do to make test equipment that stays consistent no matter the climatic changes, age or batch.
That's not what I said. I said I wanted something that does not exist right now. I'm sure this is a fine player and I like that it has built in FM radio. If it has zero DRM built into, I'm really enthused. What did I just buy for my wife? A 20GB Iriver. It was smaller.
You want one that _only_ plays ogg? I'm a _huge_ fan and supporter of ogg, and you're really not helping any, please stop now.
Yes, I want a player that only supports ogg because it will be cheaper. What's wrong with that? Choice is good, right? Save your negativity for someone who boosts WMA only players.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I really want to start a hardware based project, but I'd love to see a sourceforge for such a thing. Anyone know of one.
Doesnt sound like you gave them much of a chance to rectify things if you starting demanding your money back less than 30 days later.
Neuros (the company) won't ship to Canada, but there are resellers who will.. check out this guy.. he provided great service.
Yes, I want a player that only supports ogg because it will be cheaper.
Have you not heard of Economies of Scale?
The market for an Ogg-only player would be tiny and the overheads involved would outway any licensing savings.