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Nintendo Running Itself into the Ground?

ZephyrXero writes "That is the question asked by N-Sider.com in their article "Playing it safe". The article talks of how Nintendo's reliance on tried and true franchises may contribute to their lack of innovation and low sales numbers. Although most have already seen this problem brewing within Nintendo for quite some time, it is also becoming a problem for many other game developers throughout the industry." A nice counter-point to Sticking up for Nintendo from earlier this month.

237 comments

  1. In other news... by Snowspinner · · Score: 5, Funny

    In other news, DC Comics has realized that it should stop publishing Superman and Batman titles in favor of new characters that nobody has any investment in.

    Microsoft has realized that it should discontinue the Office brand in favor of new software that will be more "innovative" than simple word processing.

    And McDonalds has decided to discontinue all of its hamburgers, fearing that they haven't created any innovative cuisine in the last 20 years, instead becoming a steakhouse.

    1. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And McDonalds has decided to discontinue all of its hamburgers, fearing that they haven't created any innovative cuisine in the last 20 years, instead becoming a steakhouse.

      But McDonalds in now a gurmet sandwitch superstore.. They have tosted sandwitches!!.. Well, at least in Canada.

      That was a scary day. Very scary day.

    2. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But McDonalds in now a gurmet sandwitch superstore.. They have tosted sandwitches!!.. Well, at least in Canada. Mhh, toasted witches. I guess I could do without the sand but, hey, you can't have it all...

    3. Re:In other news... by bob65 · · Score: 1
      And McDonalds has decided to discontinue all of its hamburgers, fearing that they haven't created any innovative cuisine in the last 20 years, instead becoming a steakhouse.

      Well, discontinue, no, but they seem to be shying away from them. It seems all I see now are ads for McDonald's toasted deli sandwiches, garden salads, yogurt parfaits, premium white breast chicken strips, ....

    4. Re:In other news... by badasscat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In other news, DC Comics has realized that it should stop publishing Superman and Batman titles in favor of new characters that nobody has any investment in.

      I'd have modded this more "insightful" than "funny".

      What's funny is how much Nintendo gets bashed around the net, considering they're, you know, the only profitable game hardware company out there. People act like they don't know what they're doing and that somehow Sony and MS have got their number. In reality, I think it's a lot more likely that Kaz at Sony and Bill over at MS sit there looking at their market share numbers vs. their profit/loss columns and think "huh? Shouldn't we be the ones making money here?"

      Nintendo's doing something right; something that MS and Sony aren't. They realized a long time ago that dominating the industry is not necessary to be profitable. If you really look objectively at what they do vs. what Sony and MS do, you can make the following observations:

      a) They've got a corner in every part of the market. They have strong first-party game development (unlike Sony and MS, which rely more on second- and third-party development), and they get all of those profits for themselves. They have two handhelds and one current home console, and in various territories they still sell "classic" consoles as well.

      b) They allocate a certain percentage of development to proven franchises and a certain percentage to new titles, and they carefully manage that (it's not haphazard). This article seems to argue that the percentage allocation to proven franchises is too high, but where most game developers have failed is in doing the opposite. That's just the reality of today's market, which is "brand" based, for better or worse.

      c) They have a strong "house style". Whether or not you personally like their house style is not really an issue - the fact is you buy a Nintendo product and you basically know what you're getting. Nintendo is not nearly as reliant on third parties to define their products, nor are they as reliant on "killer apps". You buy a Nintendo console for the overall Nintendo "experience". It's similar to what Disney does - it almost doesn't even matter whether a particular Disney movie is any good, people will go see it anyway because they know basically what it's all going to be about.

      All this adds up to a well-managed company that tightly controls everything they do, which results in nearly continuous profit (I believe they've had one non-profitable quarter in something like the last ten years). They also just flat-out sell a lot more stuff than most people think they do - last year I think they were the #2 software publisher overall in terms of sales, for example, and I remember over Thanksgiving week this year they sold more total hardware in one week in the United States than their competitors sold for the entire month combined - and that's in their weakest territory. (That's including all of their systems; GBA SP, DS, GameCube.) The GameCube itself is #2 in sales worldwide, Nintendo handhelds have 95% of that market, I mean this company does sell a lot of products.

      Whether or not you understand their business plan is pretty immaterial. A lot of people don't personally like what Nintendo's doing and they therefore don't personally think their strategies are sound. But Nintendo has continuously proven those people wrong throughout pretty much their entire history. And yet the naysayers still won't go away.

    5. Re:In other news... by MagicM · · Score: 1

      You expect McDonald's to advertise the fact that they sell hamburgers?

    6. Re:In other news... by bob65 · · Score: 1

      Well, they used to, I think. Big Mac commercials, Quarter Pounder commercials, Double cheeseburgers...

    7. Re:In other news... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that sony is making money on sales of the new PS2, or at the very least not making anything. However, the amount of money made or lost on the console is not what is most important - the overall profit is.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell is wrong with the Canadian education system? Don't they teach you how to spell?

    9. Re:In other news... by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      I wish. Remember when they had the McRib? Yeah, uh, after that failed in the early 90s, they brought it back in Bakersfield. Talk about redneck - or at least wannabe redneck (No real redneck would touch it with a ten-foot pole). I guess they had local success with it.

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
    10. Re:In other news... by joper90 · · Score: 1

      I agree.. out of all my consoles (well, the new three) the GC has the best feel when i turn it on and the start music/noise and the GC being written.

      The sony is just odd, blurry cubes with huge jaggies doing nothing but floating around.

      The xbox start is a bit 'here i am' + silly noise.

      The GC just feels and sounds like (lots of echo i noticed) like you are going to have a fun time on it.

    11. Re:In other news... by ikkonoishi · · Score: 1

      McRibs have a huge cult following.

      There are people who followed them from state to state as the campaign moved along.

      The Simpsons even did an episode about that.

    12. Re:In other news... by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      As you suggest, Sony is making a profit on their hardware. What is especially hilarious with the original misinformation post is that Nintendo is losing money on current Gamecube sales. It is being sold below cost to get to that 'magic' $99 price point.

      Regardless, overall profit is what matters, just like you stated.

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    13. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, they only teach them how to cheat at scrabble by adding unnecessary letters to words like color, favorite, and others like it.

    14. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fanboi or astroturf?

  2. Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by genrader · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nintendo is a profitable company with billions in the bank (I remember a year or two ago a report that Nintendo has around 8 billion USD in the bank).

    Nintendo's problem isn't that they can't make good games. They have completely messed up their entire image. Don't make purple consoles, while I think nothing of it there are a lot of stupid people who didn't buy the console cause it looked 'gay'. Everyone buys the black ones, so when you go to a store and see nothing but purple gamecube's, there's someone who thought about buying one but when looking at the sleek black and green Xbox or the black and blueish PS2, they probably went for it.

    Nintendo ALSO needs to suck it up about their "WE know what is best for the gamer" attitude. They have said that, basically, in many interviews over the recent years.

    1. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by genrader · · Score: 1

      Err, I forgot to put "They can't come out with enough high quality games as well as change their GameCube image". The GameBoy Advance and the Nintendo DS are great with awesome games.

    2. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not the use of purple or the kiddie characters that's hurting Nintendo's image - it's the fact that gaming is now a very different place than in 1984, when the NES hit. The average gamer is now in their 20s, and Sony and Microsoft have done a better job of making the "adult" video game systems. Nintendo should be pushing their inventiveness and the fact that they aren't producing FPS v.X.X or generic RPG XVI to try to win back some of the customers who remembered the unique games of the 80s and early 90s.

    3. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by ndb82 · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting that Shigeru Miyamoto's work does not constitute good games?

    4. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      The key part of the statement is the contradiction: ISN'T. As in, "is not".

    5. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by MBCook · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I disagree. I LIKE the little gamecube. I think it's cute and the games are fantastic. Their attitude doesn't bug me at all. Everyone complained about the lack of online on the 'cube, but online isn't that big on consoles yet. Yes there are a few good games (Halo 2!), but by and large it's not that big. They'll put it in their next system, when it's ready.

      I was thinking about Nintendo the other day. I trust Sony alot, but Nintendo is the only company I would buy from sight-un-seen. Pretend there is no DS, and Nintendo announces a new system to replace the GBA (the Game Boy Ultra or whatever). No picutres of it anywhere. It's a total myster the specs, the form, the games, everything. You just show up at a store on launch day with your $100 or $150 and buy a system and any games they have. Would you buy that system? I would. I trust Nintendo. They've earned it. I would do the same thing with the successor to the GameCube. I'll almost certanly buy a PS3, and will look hard at a Xbox 2, but I won't hesitate on the Nintendo system.

      It may have fewer games, but when the games come out, they are often awesome. Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, Super Smash Brothers, Mario Golf/Tennis, Viewtiful Joe, Donkey Konga, Metroid Prime, and on and on and on. I own more 'cube games than PS2 or X-Box games by far. I just find more games that I really like and are worth more than a 2 day rent on the 'cube.

      Analysts can pick at Nintendo all they want. They are no Sega (in that their hardware will stay around). They make great systems, and great games.

      Three cheers for Nintendo. Great games and systems since 1984 (that was when the Famicom was released, right)? That's TWO DECADES. Get back to me when Sony and MS have been around making great stuff for TWO DECADES and continue to do it.

      PS: I LIKED the virtual boy, I think it died due to mismarketing (shouldn't have been called "virtual boy", that implied portability. It had some fantastic games (Mario Tennis, Mario Crash, the Wario game). You may call it a failure, but I really liked it. They only things they don't deliver on (64DD, SNES-CD, etc.) never got released (at least here in the states) so I can't count them as failures as they were never on the market (again, in the states).

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    6. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by vasqzr · · Score: 1


      The SNES was gray with purple accents, and the controller had purple buttons. It sold pretty well.

      Everyone hated how the XBox looked and how big it was. Sleek? Hah.

      Basically, video games grew up in the late 90's. Blood, guts, naked volleyball players. Nintendo knows you don't have to have these things in a game to make it a good game, so for the most part they kept it out. I believe that should be left up to the game publisher, not the console company, and Sony will let you publish any hunk of crap you want for the Playstation. So you have a ton of mediocre games. That also lets Sony brag that they have '1,000' games in their library.

      The other problem with Nintendo is their propreitary media formats. They were the last one to go to optical discs, and when they did, they used a non-standard format.

    7. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DS has awesome games?

      Sorry, Mario 64 and a few below-average dating sims do not count as "great games".

      The GBA is up for discussion, however.

    8. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by Fred+Or+Alive · · Score: 1

      The Famicom was released in 1983 IIRC.

      --
      10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
      20 GOTO 10
    9. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The other problem with Nintendo is their propreitary media formats. They were the last one to go to optical discs, and when they did, they used a non-standard format.

      I honestly fail to see how this is a problem. The Xbox and the PS2 have both fallen to rampant piracy, and the GCN is still pretty much above that. Piracy is possible on a GameCube, but it requires the pirater to put in a good amount of work. This HAS to be an attractive feature of the GameCube, and I don't know why anyone would think it wasn't.

      a GOD is a 1.5GB mini-DVD with some intensive copy protection added. DVDs cost pennies to make, and a GOD isn't an exception. The storage capacity isn't a problem for 95% of the games out there, and the ones that require 2 discs... well, they have 2 discs. It's a low cost when you consider that your product will not be pirated, and you will see better load times due to the smaller disc size.

    10. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by Fred+Or+Alive · · Score: 1

      It's a bit OT, but is the NTSC SNES really as ugly as it looks? The PAL SNES / Super Famicom design looks fine, but all the pictures look like they took the design and hit it with an ugly stick for the US market. All those sharp edges, and purple everywhere...

      But maybe that just proves that ugliness sells in the US. :-) See also: Xbox. :-)

      ----

      As for shovelware, I seem to remember lots of mericore games on SNES and Mega Drive when they were popular, it's probably more that the most popular platform generally gets the shovelware.

      --
      10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
      20 GOTO 10
    11. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by urbaer · · Score: 1

      Nintendo announces a new system to replace the GBA (the Game Boy Ultra or whatever). No picutres of it anywhere. It's a total myster the specs, the form, the games, everything. You just show up at a store on launch day with your $100 or $150 and buy a system and any games they have. Would you buy that system?

      As much as I love Nintendo, no. I'm not going to run out and buy every new Gameboy. If I did I'd have a Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Colour, Gameboy Advance, GBA:SP and a DS (or in your example an Ultra). I generally by every second gameboy (Pocket, Advance, DS) as Nintendo seems to be putting out a lot of revision versions (where they fix problems).

      But generally I will buy before I try, but not sight unseen.

    12. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I have every gameboy released except the GBA and the DS (I do have a couple of SPs.) With the exception of my original game boy and the SPs, none of them were purchased as current products. If the GBA SP had come out sooner, I wouldn't have a GBC, though... The resale value of the older nintendo handhelds is nil, so I'll probably keep them forever... The DS still costs too much, I'll probably get one when they are $100.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by PhoenixFlare · · Score: 1

      They have completely messed up their entire image

      Among who? Teenagers and young adults that think anything without massive blood, gore, and other "mature" elements is too cutsey and embarassing for them to play? I'd almost venture that while Nintendo might be losing some money by somewhat excluding that segment, their games and design philosophy are better for it.

      Don't make purple consoles, while I think nothing of it there are a lot of stupid people who didn't buy the console cause it looked 'gay'

      This comes back to the maturity issue. I think Nintendo is better off without attracting customers that would think something like that.

      For the umpteenth time, I think this comic is appropriate.

      Everyone buys the black ones, so when you go to a store and see nothing but purple gamecube's

      I'll have to take your word for it, because i've never actually seen that happen in any store i've been in for the last 2 years. Even when the platinum-colored ones were still quasi-limited, I had no trouble at all finding one the day I got mine - the first store (EB) I went to had them in stock.

      but when looking at the sleek black and green Xbox

      XBox....Sleek? You're joking, right?

      Nintendo ALSO needs to suck it up about their "WE know what is best for the gamer" attitude. They have said that, basically, in many interviews over the recent years.

      Maybe they DO know best? Millions of people enjoy their products very much, they're still a profitable company, and they're generally not going anywhere for a good long time.

    14. Re:Nintendo isn't dying, their console is dying. by spectre_240sx · · Score: 1

      Hey, I liked the design of the SNES you innsensitive clod!

      On a serious note, though... I think nintendo has done a very good job of making their systems visually appealing (except for the model 2 versions). The snes was leaps and bounds above the genesis in that regard, imho. Not to mention the actual construction quality. Other systems of that era just felt rather cheap comparitively. Now with the gamecube they've made a small system that's very easy to move around. This must be a godsend for parents when they want their kids to go play in another room.

      I will be a nintendo fan as long as they stick to their original way of doing things. Their systems are always a lot different then the competition's. They also seem to still care about more than just making money, which is rare in this day and age.

  3. Wait by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How exactly is releasing a portable game system unlike anything else out there "playing it safe". Especially when compared to the PSP, which is pretty much as "safe" as it gets....

    1. Re:Wait by Ayaress · · Score: 1

      That's what I was thinking when I read the article. Nintendo's made a good deal of mistakes the last ten years, but most of them were around the launch of the Playstation and their drama with big name developers like Square. They've realized that mistake and done everything they could to fix it. They've seen that they were wrong with online gaming, and they're doing an about-face on that. Five years ago, I would have said they were running themselves into the ground. Now, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job avoiding that.

    2. Re:Wait by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      The reason for Nintendo's weakening position in the console market over the past decade is paradoxical (using Definition #1 for the word "paradox" of course): Nintendo doesn't do enough from a game perspective (relying on old franchises instead of new ideas, not to mention the lack of third parties) yet does too much from a system perspective (stuff like the insistence of cartridge media for the N64 and the overprioritizing of form factor for the Gamecube may look nice on paper, but may not do so well in practice). Add to that the kiddy image that Nintendo does little to combat and it's no surprise that the GC is third of three in America.

      Really, the only thing that's keeping Nintendo in plenty of cash is their monopoly on the portable market. I doubt the PSP will topple that, but it's only a matter of time before that security blanket will be gone, and with the DS it looks like Nintendo is starting to do too much there as well.

      Rob

    3. Re:Wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, what else were they supposed to do? The DS reeks of desperation in response to the PSP (just look at their recently announced media-player add-on). They know they couldn't out-power Sony, so they out-gimmicked them.

    4. Re:Wait by harrkev · · Score: 1
      Add to that the kiddy image that Nintendo does little to combat and it's no surprise that the GC is third of three in America.

      Disclaimer: I am a PC guy. I do not even own a current console game. I have not even looked very hard at the titles out there.

      With that being said, let me throw in my $0.02.

      Why is the kiddy image that bad? I really don't get it! If a game does not have blood, guts, and boobs, then it is automatically a bad game? If I wanted that stuff, I would just rent the appropriate type of move to match my mood. But when I pick up a joystick (or mouse), I want FUN. Lack of boobs does not automatically equal lack of fun. But a lot of titties in Daikatana, and let me know how much better you like it. I remember many, many hours spend capturing mushroom and jumping turtles. Not a booby in site, and no blood either. But I had fun doing it.

      In fact, I should point out Nintendo's obvious genius. I have small children in the house, and if I wanted to buy a system, guess what I would get? There are mature titles out there for Nintendo, but if I buy a Nintendo, I can at least be sure of being able to get some titles that I would not mind having my children play. I would not buy an X-box for my house, because I would not be certain of even being to find any appreciable number of titles for my children to play.

      So, if you look at is in terms of market, Nintendo is doing great. They have a virtual lock on the "kiddie" market, plus being able to capture a few adult sales too. Being cheaper also helps when Christmas comes, and parents are looking at their limited budgets and trying to decide what to buy.
      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    5. Re:Wait by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      Because (as the article clearly pointed out) Nintendo isn't releasing innovative games to go along with it. They may be taking a slight risk on the hardware (though I am not sure "cheap portable hardware with good battery life" qualifies as risky or unusual for Nintendo), but they are playing it completely safe when it comes to the games. That is the problem.

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    6. Re:Wait by spectre_240sx · · Score: 1

      Add to this games in the spirit of Animal Crossing (which is a brilliant idea, imho) and you get a family console which is fun for everyone. Nintendo is doing pretty much everything right in my book, it's just a shame that less developers are willing to take a risk and put out games that rely on real fun gameplay rather than shock value or the kids that want to be cool in front of their friends so they get the goriest games out there.

  4. Listening to fanboys.... by theREALMcCoy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Whine about the resaons why Nintendo isn't the dominant player in the industry gets old. Listen, just because the big N isn't number one in console sales, doesn't mean that they are not a successful company, or that they are on the brink of failure. BMW isn't the number one auto company, but hey seem to be doing all right. Apple might not even hold a candle to the other PC manufacturers, but they service a niche. I love Nintendo, and it doesn't matter if they dominate the market. They meet a particular market need, and they get by just fine. They will proabably never again rule the console roost, but they will continue to be a profitable, successful game company.

    1. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by analog_line · · Score: 1

      "Listening to fanboys whine about the resaons why Nintendo isn't the dominant player in the industry gets old."

      I couldn't agree more. I frankly wonder why these people care so much about Nintendo. It's not like Nintendo actually puts food on the table for these people, unless they happen to be Nintendo employees. As long as they're making enough money to be profitable, who gives a crap what they're doing with the company. Who cares whether your friends like what console games you play. If they don't want to be your friend because you have a GameCube, and not an Xbox or PS2 which is "better" you ought to not have been friends with people that shallow in the first place.

    2. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by theREALMcCoy · · Score: 1

      I don't understand the whole issue. I don't get into heated arguements with my brother because he drives a Nissan and I drive a Honda. But it's always been this way with video games. People swear alegiance to their company of choice. My first encounter with this issue was when I was in second grade. I was thinking of buying a Sega Master System, and my neighbor almost disowned me because he had an NES. I guess some things never change.

    3. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by incom · · Score: 1

      Replace nintendo with apple, and a google search of your inquiry will be full of well written results.

      --
      True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
    4. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by theREALMcCoy · · Score: 1

      Good point. Not only am I a Nintendo fan, but an Apple user as well, and there are firebreathers in that arena too.

    5. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      " Listen, just because the big N isn't number one in console sales, doesn't mean that they are not a successful company, or that they are on the brink of failure."

      I had somebody tell me once that the N64 was a failure despite selling 30 million units. I kid you not, he actually added the 'despite selling 30 million units' bit. He had a bit of a chip on his shoulder.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    6. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Well, the N64 was a failure (or at least a middling quasi-success like the pre-SNES Genesis) despite selling 30 million units. A lot of the people who bought those units didn't buy very many games for them, and as we all know, games are the lifeblood of any console. I personally bought exactly two games for my N64, and one of them was at launch.

      Rob

    7. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      I should point out that Nintendo made a heck of a lot more on cartridge based games than Sony ever did or does on CD based. (Hence one of the reasons Nintendo didn't move to the optical disc format.)

      In any event, I'm still baffled how one can label a 30 million unit sale a failure in any stretch of the imagination. I can understand "didn't reach its potential" or "not as good as other consoles", but failure? Honestly. To be clear, Im nitpicking the choice of words, not the feelings behind them.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    8. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it just the case of "if you're not a winner, you're a loser"-mentality?
      I don't know if that's a US trait, but certainly lots of movies in the past made it look like that. And it looks like that mentality is spreading over the world.

    9. Re:Listening to fanboys.... by theREALMcCoy · · Score: 1

      OK, its now turned into a conversation about the effect of US behavior on the world? Give me a break.

      It always has to go there on /. It's always something wrong with the US. Whether its IP, money or whatever. Somehow the US screwed everything up.

  5. Nintendo just makes good games by obsid1an · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nintendo is one of the few companies out there to consistently pump out quality games across all their platforms. Sure, there is Mario Tennis, Mario Party, Mario Golf, Super Mario DS, etc, but every single one of those games is solid. The same goes with the Metroid and Zelda series. Nintendo doesn't use its franchises as a way to sell bad games. They are instead constantly reinforcing how good the games are that come from their franchises.

    1. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Nintendo doesn't use its franchises as a way to sell bad games.

      Pokemon snap/channel/yellow/crystal/box/stadium/pikachuvoi cegame anyone?

    2. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by llevity · · Score: 1

      I concur that they make good games, but I think what is hurting them is they're not making them fast enough, and they're not attracting enough third party support.

      Sure, there are a few third party exclusives, but most of their third party support comes in the form of ports that are on other systems. And the problem is they're often better on the other systems.

      Whether it's because of the Xbox's better graphics and sound capabilities, or the extra buttons on the PS2's controller that makes the game's control more intuitive, or the fact that both Xbox and PS2 have a decent online infrastructure that allows the games to be played online.

      No one wants a system where they have to wait 6 months or more for a decent game, especially if they can only have one system.

      Another issue I have is with their rehashes. I for one love a continuance of a franchise. The next Zelda adventure, or a new Mario platformer. But Nintendo, especially in their GBA line, are just porting old games. The classic NES series would have been cool for nostolga's sake if they'd stuffed several on one cartridge. But why port Mario64, a game that's not even THAT old, to the DS when you could have instead invested more time and given us a brand new Mario?

      I guess I'm answering my own question, in that Nintendo knows they can't put new games out fast enough, so they're rehashing classics.

    3. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by Oracle+of+Bandwidth · · Score: 1

      I must respectfully disagree.
      I was a huge Nintendo fanboy when the SNES was around, I have a ton of issuses of Nintendo Power, and still have all my SNES games.
      Unfortunatly I think the once amazing Nintendo has taken a turn for the worst. Starting with the N64, a console who's objective seemed to be to make me hate almost every franchies I once held dear. Mario gets more unplayaple every iteration, and Zelda went from the most amazing top, real time RPG ever to a so-so platformer.
      I do agree with you on the new Metroid games, they still feel like the old ones. Maybe I'm just an old dude complanining about those newfangeled 3d games, but the N64 just lost it for me. I really hope Nintendo goes back to making amazing games, and gives up on platformers with cool graphics, and not much else.

    4. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe ten years ago they did. now you are lucky to get 1 decent game a year from them. the rest are all crap mario spinoffs.

    5. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by CapeMonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the case of Mario 64 for DS, it's because they wanted to launch at Christmas and before the PSP lest they end up eating Sony's dust. Investing more time in a good brand new Mario DS for launch means likely either delaying the launch of the DS or launching without their flagship franchise, which is something they're unlikely to repeat after the GameCube. They were on the clock, simple as that. Now, they are making a new Mario DS game, as there's video of it. But whatever it ends up being, it wouldn't have been near the quality they require for the system's launch title. Now, as a DS owner, I am frustrated that it will take until February for another game I actually want to hit the North American market. But you can't argue that the DS's market penetration in the last month and a half hasn't been impressive. And the library will be built up by the time the PSP launches, so they've got themselves a head start on Sony.

    6. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by Juanvaldes · · Score: 1

      Get a GBA. All that classic old fogie 16bit-dont waste time with long cutscence - great story / gameplay stuff I love. They are also super cheap with the SP & DS out. :-)

    7. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's go watch Final Fantasy 12.

    8. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by wan23 · · Score: 1

      Hooray! Let's all buy all our old games again! Ooh! And let's play them on a screen that doesn't quite match the resolution of the original system and missing two buttons! WHAT A GREAT IDEA! Yeah... I sold my gba...

    9. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by kisrael · · Score: 1

      I think, "Oracle of Bandwidth", you miss some of the point of the N64, which for me was busting open whole new worlds of social multiplayer gaming -- more so than breaking old franchises into 3D. (That said...I didn't play Legend of Zelda much back in the day, and when I went back to it *after* Z:OoT, I was amazed at how familiar the gameplay felt, the original Zelda's 2D overhead perspective was already closer to most 3D games than, say, the old Metroid or SMB was)

      I have trouble seperating my development as a gamer from my history with Nintendo. I don't know why I got so into this universe of mushrooms and turtles and princesses and clouds with eyes, but I want to see where it goes. I don't have as much time as I used to, either as a solo gamer or in gathering w/ housemates etc, so I'm fussier about what games I'll start into, and even on the other consoles I stick with the big series, GTA:SA and Halo 2... (but not so much that I missed Katamari Damacy...)

      One strong benefit of not creating too many all new worlds: Nintendo has less of the Simpsons "Poochie" effect, with new characters full of awesome radicalness.

      I do worry about Nintendo overmilking the franchises and only introducing "Pikmin" this go round (though Mario Kart 64, Smash Bros, Mario Party, Mario Tennis were all some incredible new(ish) things on the N64...along with BattleTanx, which is about the only decent tank game on a home system since Battle Zone...) Even worse is the GBA....that system deserved more new development w/ Mario, not just a series of ports.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    10. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by ajd1474 · · Score: 1
      Nintendo has less of the Simpsons "Poochie" effect, with new characters full of awesome radicalness.
      So what do you make of "Funky Kong"?
      http://cube.ign.com/articles/568/568996p1.html
      --
      I refuse to have a sig... dammit!
    11. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by kisrael · · Score: 1

      He was fairly poochie like when he was introduced in Donkey Kong Country in the 90s, but he's only played a small roll for the most part....good call though.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    12. Re:Nintendo just makes good games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ouch. Wow... that was a bit below the belt, don't you think?

  6. Missed the Point by Mr.Dippy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This guy brings up some interesting ideas but it's not about innovation and gameplay style that is killing them. I got a DS for Christmas and I challenge anybody to say that thing is not innovative. The problem with Nintendo is for every Eternal Darkness game they make they have 10 Pokemon/Harvest Moon/Talking animal games. Teenagers and adults have the money and the market share for videogames. They are the ones that will save up and plop down 50 bucks for Halo 2, GTA, etc.. Buying a cutesy nintendo game means that 5 year old needs to pester his or her parent for the game. Better said then done. Most parents I talk to are apprehensive to shell out money for their child's game habit. Innovation is not the problem. Disney style games are. /my two cents.

    --


    -Dipster
    1. Re:Missed the Point by Masami+Eiri · · Score: 1

      Except the Harvest Moon series is widely regarded as being very good, even among older gamers. Same goes for a certian extent, to the Pokemon video game franchise.

    2. Re:Missed the Point by JustinXB · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yes, violent video games sell. But you wanna know what? Halo 1 and 2 sucked. GTA series is declining in quality (I know many will disagree with that). Whereas Harvest Moon is actually fun. Mario Kart is fun. Nintendo games are actually fun. You can shrug them off as "Oh, games for little kids with talking bears" but they're fun.

    3. Re:Missed the Point by superstick58 · · Score: 1

      I guess you can offer this opinion, I just hope you don't consider it fact. The vast majority of gamers and critics will disagree with you on the quality of the games you mentioned(The negative comments). I won't disagree that many of the nintendo games ARE fun, but Halo 1,2, GTA, and other titles for different consoles cannot be considered junk. They are hugely successful in accomplishing what they are designed to accomplish which is sell a lot of copies and make the consumer happy. Ultimately it's a question of whether you would like to design for the masses or would rather enter into a niche market. The Xbox and PS2 do a good job with the masses. Gamecube does a good job with the niche.

    4. Re:Missed the Point by Pluvius · · Score: 2, Funny

      Except the Harvest Moon series is widely regarded as being very good, even among older gamers.

      "Alright.. so how are we going to try and market this movie? On the internet maybe?"
      "Well, given the straightforward plot of the movie... we can't use the IMEWOMF."
      "What's the IMEWOMF??"
      "The Internet Movie Elitist Word of Mouth Factor. You see, you get people on the internet, claiming what 'genius' or 'understated brilliance' a specific movie is... and sure enough, as word spreads, people will generally be too intimidated by these faceless, anonymous opinions to go against the grain and form an opinion for themselves. Wes Anderson and the Wilson Bros. have been doing this for years."
      "They have?"
      "Well, let's put this way. Did you enjoy 'Rushmore' and 'The Royal Tenenbaums'?"
      "My God yes. Those movies have such a subtle brilliance to them. Pure genius."
      "Now ask yourself this.. When you were watching them. Did you even laugh once?"
      "Well.. no. But those movies are god-like comedies."
      "Comedies that never made you laugh once."
      "Oh my lord... The IMEWOMF."
      "The IMEWOMF. Hell, why do you think Owen Wilson has a successful movie career despite looking like a Rottweiler bit half of his nose off?"

      (From the late great website Whatever-Dude. I'll leave it to the reader to figure out what relevance this has to the quote from the parent post.)

      Rob

    5. Re:Missed the Point by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The DS is not innovative, it is evolutionary. Everything in the unit is something we've already seen involved with gaming, including dual screens (both arcade and the old-ass nintendo lcd handhelds) and the touchscreen (what, you never played a game on a palm?) Many DS games, however, make innovative use of the hardware, ehich is cool. Actually, the DS does have one innovative feature: the little plastic bead on the carry strap that you can use as a stylus. That's badass.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Missed the Point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except Harvest Moon isn't even from fucking Nintendo. Sheesh. If grandparent wants to rag on Nintendo at least rag on Nintendo's own fucking games.

    7. Re:Missed the Point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Teenagers and adults have the money and the market share for videogames. They are the ones that will save up and plop down 50 bucks for Halo 2, GTA, etc.. Buying a cutesy nintendo game means that 5 year old needs to pester his or her parent for the game. Better said then done. Most parents I talk to are apprehensive to shell out money for their child's game habit. Innovation is not the problem. Disney style games are. /my two cents.

      Or you could look at it the other way-- they corner the market for kid's games. And kids want games, and what kids want they usually get. Which system do you think a parent is more likely to buy, the one with the cute animals or the one with GTA?

      Kids are also a steady audience, one that is constantly replenishing itself. Look at Disney and Nickelodeon's TV shows for an example-- even if they have a hit, they only make four or five season's worth of episodes (Spongebob, for example, completed its production run four years ago.) Why? Because in four or five years there's an entirely new group of kids to whom the series is fresh.

      Yeah, Nintendo could go more adult, but that's not their image and it's a crowded market-- why compete directly with PS and X-box, as well as PC games when they have the tween and younger crowd to themselves?

    8. Re:Missed the Point by -kertrats- · · Score: 1

      Hold on. Who says that cutesy games are just for 5-year-olds? Some of the best games I've ever played are cutesy Nintendo games. The stereotype that Nintendo is too kiddy is good and dead, so trying to bring up that argument here just shows your complete ignorance.

      --
      The Braying and Neighing of Barnyard Animals Follows.
    9. Re:Missed the Point by theREALMcCoy · · Score: 1

      Its a stretch to say the Xbox is reaching the masses. Halo is reaching the masses. If it weren't for that single series, MS would be ditching the Xbox like webTV.

    10. Re:Missed the Point by Mr.Dippy · · Score: 1

      My complete ignorance? I still play nintendo gamesand I'm 25 years old. However, NONE of my friends who are the same age won't touch Nintendo because of the cuteness factor. Maybe the people in your social circle have a robust outlook on playing games but not mine. Hell, every person over the age of 21 that I work with looked at me strange when I told them I got a DS for Christmas. Pretend that the kiddy sterotype isn't there. The vast majority of the consumer market put the image of a console and the fun/game play factor into the same category.

      --


      -Dipster
    11. Re:Missed the Point by ajd1474 · · Score: 1

      The "Tweenies" (pre-teen) group is regarded as the most profitable segment to market to, by far.

      Example:
      My girlfriend's little sister has no less than 8 Pokemon games. Has every Mario title released since SNES. And is OBSESSED with Harvest Moon/Animal Crossing.

      Why are kids more profitable? Because they have time, their parents have money, and they actually obsess about franchises.

      Sure I love Halo and Halo 2.... but us oldies dont die if we dont get to play Pokemon every day. And we certainly dont get as excited as kids do when their cow in Harvest Moon named "Mike" turns out to be pregnant!

      --
      I refuse to have a sig... dammit!
    12. Re:Missed the Point by Mornelithe · · Score: 1

      I'm 22, and none of my friends have a problem with Nintendo being more 'kiddy' than the other consoles. In fact, we end up playing Nintendo games far more often than any other system.

      Then again, we aren't exactly members of the unwashed masses. We grew up gaming, unlike the large majority of modern 'gamers' who've only started playing video games now that it's somehow popular. We actually care if a game is fun, not just if it has enough explosions. I'm not surprised most of the American market doesn't agree.

      In other words: Apparently, every person over the age of 21 that you work with is an idiot when it comes to video games.

      --

      I've come for the woman, and your head.

    13. Re:Missed the Point by Mr.Dippy · · Score: 1

      Apparently, every person over the age of 21 that you work with is an idiot when it comes to video games.

      That sir I will agree with you. Like I'm just about to finiih Metroid: Zero Mission and nobody can understand why I'm wasting my time on a Nintendo game. That game is in my top 5 games list of 2004.

      --


      -Dipster
  7. before everybody else says it... by muel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...wasn't this year's Christmas season made up almost entirely of top-notch, blockbuster, super-selling sequels? Judging by what the general video-gaming masses throw their money at, doesn't adherence to the tried-and-true actually make financial sense?

    The guy goes on and on about how these franchises aren't attracting new gamers. That's bullocks. The problem is that the GameCube as a whole wound up becoming the Dreamcast of this generation. Not enough AAA-rate games to keep gamers happy: No Burnout 3, no GTA, limited sports support. Simple as that. Metroid Prime got attention, but for many reasons (lack of deathmatch being one), it wasn't the Halo that pulled Microsoft's similarly-shitty XBox release schedule out of the crapper. If Nintendo had gotten their crap together by snagging more third parties earlier, or perhaps by getting Mario Kart DD online, the console wars would've been completely different. As it stands, Nintendo blew the console wars again.

    Then again, on the bright side, their profits are pretty damn good. What they lose in licensing, they've made up for by never selling their console for less than a profit and by making more profit for their first-party games. MS and Sony couldn't say that for years and lost more money in their deep pocketbooks than they'd ever care to admit, and paying for exclusivity deals with third parties takes its toll, too. Nintendo, as shortsighted as they are in getting American gamers' attention, have always been pretty good with the pocketbook. That might not mean much to gamers in search of a good system, but it does mean that Nintendo is going absolutely nowhere in the console wars. They won't fall like Sega anytime soon, but they do need to shape up with the new Revolution system, because they won't survive a third N64-style last-place finish, and two bad systems in a row is not a good reputation to go into the next generation with. Can we say Atari?

    1. Re:before everybody else says it... by Naikrovek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well I think that if the leap from GameBoy SP to Nintendo DS is any indication, the Gamecube -> Revolution leap will be amazing.

      There seems to be a few fresh thinkers inside Nintendo. That's why the DS is such a leap over previous portable game systems. If that same thinking goes into the Revolution then I'm sure we'll see some good innovations.

    2. Re:before everybody else says it... by funny-jack · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that the GameCube as a whole wound up becoming the Dreamcast of this generation.

      Um, maybe it's just me, but wasn't the Dreamcast the "Dreamcast of this generation"?

      --
      You probably shouldn't click this.
    3. Re:before everybody else says it... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Um, maybe it's just me, but wasn't the Dreamcast the "Dreamcast of this generation"?"

      Depends on how you measure it. The DC wasn't even really around when the GameCube came out.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    4. Re:before everybody else says it... by CapeMonkey · · Score: 1

      Dreamcast was the first of the generation including XBox, PS2 and GameCube. It's the weakest machine spec-wise, and it was the first to fail, but it is clearly not of the previous generation, which was PSX, Saturn, N64. Just because it had effectively died off prior to the release of the GameCube does not mean it is not of the same generation.

    5. Re:before everybody else says it... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      Again, it depends on how you look at it. It kind of slipped in between generations. The PS2, XBOX, and GC are all well above what the DC was all about. Yes, it's the first one, but on the other hand it wasnt that close to the PS2 either.

      In any event, give me a little credit, I didn't say they were of the same generation. Though I wasn't all that clear what my view was, I was merely pointing out why somebody'd make a statement like that. To some, whether factually correct or not, the DC was in a generation all of its own.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    6. Re:before everybody else says it... by urbaer · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the GameCube as a whole wound up becoming the Dreamcast of this generation.

      Does that make the XBox the N64 of this generation?

    7. Re:before everybody else says it... by a8o · · Score: 1

      How does a third party compete on a console which Nintendo basically rules? Sure, there are some great 3rd party games, but they don't sell as well as they should. Can anybody say Super Monkey Ball DX and Viewtiful Joe on the Playstation?

    8. Re:before everybody else says it... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I have an Xbox and a Gamecube, and used to have a PS2. The PS2 got sold to make rent quite a ways back and the Xbox hasn't played an Xbox game in months, serving instead as a media player and console emulator. The 'cube is the only system my girlfriend and I actually play, and it will stay that way until a networked version of gran turismo comes out for PS2 and I can play with my friends back home in Santa Cruz.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:before everybody else says it... by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      And dammit, I LIKE the Dreamcast! I've been through Grandia II four times to date, and Crazy Taxi is one of my all-time favorites.

  8. It's Simple by Malevolyn · · Score: 1

    Nintendo has screwed itself with its idea that it's going to target the youth market which, frankly, is the worst gaming demographic. There will never be a mom or dad that will spend as much on video games as someone in the mid- or late teens. And I mean that on a general scale. For example, the other day, without Christmas in mind, I bought a Nintendo DS just on a whim. Would anyone here spend $218 (total, with game and stuff) for their kid or kids completely on a whim?

    Doubtful.

    --
    Your ad here.
    1. Re:It's Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you obviously grew up in a stable family. when daddy divorces mommy, he buys little billy a video game each visit to try to win him over and out of guilt for leaving... while mommy gets shunted with the actual 'parenting' job.

    2. Re:It's Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly enough I can vouch for this story.

      Made me hate my parents even more. Why don't those fuckers just spend some time with me instead of throwing money at me.

      Oh well, I got some really cool shit out of that bargin... Don't know if it was really worth it though.

    3. Re:It's Simple by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      Of course Nintendo is going for the wrong market. That's why they're losing so much money and revenues are plummeting. Oh wait...

    4. Re:It's Simple by cowscows · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, nintendo went for exactly the right market when they first started making video games. The NES became what it is because of kids. Over time, the demographics have shifted, and a lot of those kids have become teenagers/young adults.

      But you have to remember a couple things. First off, there's still plenty of kids being born every day. Which means that that market that Nintendo still has a grasp on is just as lucrative now as it was in the late 80's. Probalby more so.

      Also, the teenager demographic that's so big now is going to continue to get older. And they'll still want to play games as the become more mature. I'm 24, and I don't find mario games to be insultingly childish. I don't find them childish at all really. I do feel some nostalgic connection with mario and link and whanot, but that's hardly a negative thing.

      And let me also mention that I've got friends my age who are having kids of their own now. If I currently had children, I can think of a lot more nintendo games that I'd sit them down in front of than PS2 or Xbox games. When the day comes, I'll be happy to give Nintendo some more money in exchange for some fun games to play with my kids.

      And your whole argument loses a lot of ground when you consider the fact that Nintendo's games aren't all aimed at the youth market. There's stuff like metroid (which came with your DS) and resident evil and whatnot. Plus if you pick up a controller and play most of their other games for more than a minute, you'll find some pretty deep and cool gameplay. Mario Tennis for example. Do you honestly think there are many seven year old gamers that understand the difference between top spin and back spin?

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  9. This was a good point, a year or two ago. by Mirkon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The anti-innovation point would have been good, had it been made before the wildly innovative Nintendo DS, and before the announcement that the next Nintendo console will have a completely new control scheme. Even if they use the same characters in upcoming games, they're going to have to be used in entirely new ways.

    --
    Glog!
    1. Re:This was a good point, a year or two ago. by Rico_Suave · · Score: 1

      The Virtual Boy was "innovative" as well... The DS's touch screen hasn't proven to be anything more than a gimmick yet.

  10. Old Article by StocDred · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This article was posted to IGN Cube back in October, as shared content between IGN and N-Sider. Same graphics as well. Old article, even older complaints. Nice job, story submitter.

    For every decent point, the author trots out the same Mario-bashing that has following Nintendo since the SNES. The author shows a complete misunderstanding of how businesses maintain corporate identity and branding when he launches into such brilliant ideas as suggesting Donkey Konga would have been better served with brand new characters instead of recycling Donkey Kong. Because we all know how the PS2's Taiko Drum Master is burning up the charts (another drum peripheral game, nearly identical to Konga, also developed by Namco) because people are just begging for new drum games featuring all new IP. Come on. Half of those dreaded Mario spin-off games are concepts that nobody knew would become huge, and Nintendo figured that attaching Mario to them was the surest way to help their success. Risk = lousy games would diminish the brand, Reward = good games that strengthen the brand. Was there a huge appetite for cart racers before Mario Kart? For party games before Mario Party? For silly golf games before Mario Golf? Nintendo ventured out (Donkey Konga is a risk... new bulky hardware for a genre that mostly runs off one game, DDR), made some sharp games, people lapped them up... so Nintendo realized they hit gold and made more. And then everybody started doing them, and whaddaya know, they mostly paled in comparison.

    You can write the same article about PlayStation, switching in Metal Gear, Crash Bandicoot, Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, Tomb Raider and Grand Theft Auto. The major differences are A) that Nintendo has been around longer - and thus has been doing the branding game longer. And B) that Nintendo's core franchises are family-friendly and thus open to constant ridicule by those who don't like them.

    1. Re:Old Article by scot4875 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Damn, wish my last mod point hadn't expired.

      Your last paragraph is spot on. The m47ur3 gamer crowd likes to bash Nintendo's characters because they're insecure about playing as Mario, Yoshi, and Daisy. For some reason it's better and more 'adult' to be playing as 'generic pissed-off dude,' 'generic gangster dude,' or 'generic marine dude.'

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    2. Re:Old Article by alphaseven · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The author shows a complete misunderstanding of how businesses maintain corporate identity and branding when he launches into such brilliant ideas as suggesting Donkey Konga would have been better served with brand new characters instead of recycling Donkey Kong. Because we all know how the PS2's Taiko Drum Master is burning up the charts (another drum peripheral game, nearly identical to Konga, also developed by Namco) because people are just begging for new drum games featuring all new IP. Come on.

      I think the article might have a point about Nintendo overdoing some of it's brands, this post from Game Matters puts it more succinctly than the article.

      About brand extension, the dilution is generally a long-term effect and not a short-term one. Releasing, say, a party game as "Mario Party" boosts its sales because of its link to the popular brand, but it dilutes the whole brand in the long term.

      Mario, as a brand, has definitely lost strength lately. Each new Mario game used to be a huge release by Nintendo, but now it's much weaker. Super Mario Sunshine is a good example of this since it sold much less than expected. Mario used to be Nintendo's big brand, but now it's Zelda because they diluted it beyond recognition. I used to know what a "Mario game" was, but today it could be anything and that reduces my interest. That's not to say that Mario, as a brand, is worthless -- but it's certainly not what it used to be.

      For that matter, Nintendo is doing the same thing with Zelda by putting Link everywhere (Soul Calibur 2, etc.) -- it's another brand that's going to lost strength. I guess they'll continue this trend by creating a Metroid Party or something...

    3. Re:Old Article by Dwedit · · Score: 1

      You've never heard of EA's Zany Golf for the PC, have you? 16 color EGA graphics!

    4. Re:Old Article by kisrael · · Score: 1

      What party games were there before Mario Party?

      The Atari had the obscure game Party Mix but I can't think of any games that were just frameworks around minigames before that. As far as I can think right now, Mario Party invented a genre, and I give it huge credit for bringing classic style gaming into a new generation, especially with its emphasis on 4 player fun.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    5. Re:Old Article by cowscows · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I like to think of it less as diluting and more as expanding. I guess I just see it as a positive thing. Each Mario game isn't as big a deal now as in the past because there's just more of them. How is that a bad thing?

      Are we really worse off now that nintendo is no longer releasing just a mario platformer every few years? Do you miss all the hype they put into it? Sure, no one's going to make a movie like The Wizard to give us all a sneak preview of Mario Baseball, but I think I'm ok with that.

      Ok, so Mario Sunshine isn't your thing. Go try Mario Kart, or Mario Golf, or Mario Tennis. They're all good, solid games in their own right, and they also build upon this imaginary world that Nintendo has been cultivating for decades.

      This world that they have created has such power to create opportunities for gameplay. Mario Kart has pirahna plants that bite you, little walking bombs running all over the courses, and all other sorts of weird ass stuff. Stuff that doesn't really make any sense at all except within the history of the Mario franchise.

      For any game to be sucessful, it's going to have to help the player suspend some disbelief (except maybe for some puzzle games). Placing a game within a fantasy world that we're already familiar with makes that so much easier.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    6. Re:Old Article by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The author shows a complete misunderstanding of how businesses maintain corporate identity and branding when he launches into such brilliant ideas as suggesting Donkey Konga would have been better served with brand new characters instead of recycling Donkey Kong. Because we all know how the PS2's Taiko Drum Master is burning up the charts (another drum peripheral game, nearly identical to Konga, also developed by Namco) because people are just begging for new drum games featuring all new IP.

      Umm, Taiko Drum Master (AKA "Taiko no Tatsujin") is a gigantic success in Japan. Six arcade versions and five home releases since it came out in 2001, and home sales in excess of 2 million or so units. It is easily one of the top three most profitable Namco series. Where do you think Nintendo got the idea for Donkey Konga, and why did they then ask Namco to make it? It isn't because the idea wasn't successful until an old franchise character was slapped on it!

      Good understanding of "how businesses maintain corporate identity and branding" though!

      (Here's a free clue: you need to create successful new brands sometimes.)

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    7. Re:Old Article by madmancarman · · Score: 1
      Mario, as a brand, has definitely lost strength lately. Each new Mario game used to be a huge release by Nintendo, but now it's much weaker. Super Mario Sunshine is a good example of this since it sold much less than expected.

      I know you didn't write this, but my argument about SMSunshine is that the game didn't break much new ground beyond Mario 64, so if you drove yourself nuts trying to finish Mario 64 and finally beat Bowser at the end, you're not very likely to buy another game that's almost exactly the same but now has a water pump.

      For that matter, Nintendo is doing the same thing with Zelda by putting Link everywhere (Soul Calibur 2, etc.) -- it's another brand that's going to lost strength. I guess they'll continue this trend by creating a Metroid Party or something...

      Something that worked in the opposite direction was Super Smash Bros and SSB Melee. When we would hold lan parties after school in the cafeteria, my students would ask me to bring two things: the projector, and my Gamecube w/Super Smash Bros Melee. That thing's chock full of Nintendo characters almost completely out of context, yet it's one of the most popular fighting games out there. People like familiarity, and that's what Nintendo has to offer.

      If you want to make a comparison with another entertainment company, Mario is really Nintendo's Mickey Mouse. Mickey Mouse is in almost every damned Disney product and regularly appears in crappy straight-to-video movies, yet you see the mouse ears and immediately think of Disney and their entire product line. Sony and Microsoft could only dream of the kind of brand recognition carried by a silly little plumber with an impossible moustache and a red cap. Brand dilution may take away from purity, but it certainly increases recognition.

      --
      First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
  11. Got to agree... by RogueyWon · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is clearly going to go down like a lead balloon on slashdot, where kissing Nintendo's ass is second only to MS bashing as a past-time. I imagine there are already dozens of furious and/or smug fanboys dashing off "OMG, NINTENDO R TEH ONLY INTEVATORS" rants in response to this.

    However, it doesn't change the fact that the central thrust of the argument is true. Particularly the assertion that Nintendo's position in the console market these days is to be largely ignored. This might not be apparent to the average slashdot reader, given the high prominence that Nintendo-based stories get in here, but the wider world doesn't really care about the Gamecube any more, for good reason.

    It's very, very true that Nintendo haven't innovated in their game designs for a long time. The point about most Cube games (and I say this as a Cube owner) being rehashed versions of N64 games is the real problem here. Even Metroid Prime, which the article singles out as an exception to this, is only a standard console fps with a bad control system. Sure, it's a good enough fps and it deservedly did well, but it's not innovative. Nintendo's idea of innovation these days is to make a tacky new controller, charge a fortune for it and hope the fanboys buy enough that it breaks even.

    Mario Sunshine, Mario Kart 64 and Zelda Wind Walker were all good games. However, they all fundamentally appeal to the same audience. No, not kids; I don't fall for the argument that Nintendo games are aimed at kids. Let's face it, today's kids would rather be playing GTA: San Andreas or Halo 2. Rather, Nintendo's games are pitched at the same people who were buying their consoles as kids in the early 80s. These guys are older now, they don't really play games much, but they like to keep a console around for nostalgia value and, as many of them are part of the slashdot horde, they like feeling "alternative" by owning a console that isn't all nasty and corporate like the X-Box and PS2. This isn't a tremendously huge market and it's not likely to grow much.

    So, how does Nintendo break out of this? The article talks at length about 3rd party support. This is pretty much essential, but it's only part of the solution. The GC has very little in the way of must-have exclusive games at the moment, for somebody who's not into Mario. Eternal Darkness is one of the very few that springs to mind. And, as the article says, there are so many games missing from the lineup that you can get on other systems. If I only owned a Cube (fortunately I have a PS2 and X-Box as well), I'd be pretty damned annoyed at not being able to play Burnout 3 on it. Of course, there's a bit of a vicious cycle here; 3rd party developers don't make games for the Cube because they don't sell, so people don't buy Cubes, so Cube games don't sell. It's going to take a lot of money to solve that.

    However, Nintendo are also going to need to get up to speed on other developments in gaming... and fast. The classic example here is online gaming. This has been huge on the PC for years, X-Box Live is a pretty incredible achievement and even the PS2 has a respectable range of online games now. Meanwhile... I can count the Cube's online offerings on the fingers of one hand. In fact, I could do so even if I had a couple of fingers missing. And to cap it all of, we have some Nintendo exec telling us that online play isn't what gamers want. Henry Ford said that drivers could have their car any colour they wanted, so long as it was black... remember how well that worked out for him?

    Oh, and while I'm ranting, how about European coverage. Europe is a huge market and it's growing fast. However, Europe gets consistently shafted by Nintendo. Major titles come out many months late, or not at all. We don't even get the extra features, by way of compensation, that we get in games by, for example, Square-Enix when they come out late in Europe (eg. FFX has a number of features in the European version missing from the US version and the original Japanese release). This isn't even a ca

    1. Re:Got to agree... by scot4875 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd be pretty damned annoyed at not being able to play Burnout 3 on it. Of course, there's a bit of a vicious cycle here; 3rd party developers don't make games for the Cube because they don't sell, so people don't buy Cubes, so Cube games don't sell. It's going to take a lot of money to solve that.

      Actually, this is a load of BS. Burnout 2 sold better on the Cube than it did on the Xbox. Explain to me why the sequel is available on the Xbox and not the Cube again?

      Oh, that's right: It's because Microsoft has created an unprofitable, unmaintainable business strategy of buying/paying off developers to create games for its extremely expensive system. It's not healthy for the industry, and if they can't do a 180 turn on their losses in the next generation it's going to come around and bite EVERYONE, gamers and developers included, in the ass.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    2. Re:Got to agree... by hollismb · · Score: 1

      Yeah, except Burnout 3 is an EA game, and we all know that EA doesn't really bow to anyone, including Microsoft, which is why their games' online set up sucks, because they had to have it their way.

    3. Re:Got to agree... by RogueyWon · · Score: 1

      Except Burnout 3 is also on the PS2. Unless Nintendo are willing to go to the lengths that MS and Sony will to encourage 3rd party development, they *will* lose... and hard.

    4. Re:Got to agree... by Zenikase · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up.

      I also wanted to add that a lot more attentive gamers on the Internet get easily turned off every time Nintendo makes a press release championing themselves as the last bastion of innovation against the evil, money-grubbing forces of the dominant corporate overlords. Nintendo isn't a company that listens to customers; it tells them how they should enjoy their games. At this point, it's really quite difficult for competitors to match the amount of hot air that it's been producing recently.

      Ironically, I've seen much more creativity coming from the PlayStation camp in the past four years, but unlike with Nintendo, gamers get more than a tacky, one-game-use peripheral. Look at ICO, Katamari Damacy, Frequency/Amplitude, Devil May Cry, and Metal Gear Solid 2 (story- and gameplay-wise. With the exception of the last two, they've all gone to become cult classics, and for good reasons. On the GameCube, all we have is Animal Crossing and Eternal Darkness.

      Personally, it all sounds like a really bad case of sour grapes from Nintendo for falling so far from their mid-80s stranglehold on the console market. And now that their 15-year dominance in portables is being challenged by Sony, they're growing increasingly cautious.

    5. Re:Got to agree... by Jobby · · Score: 1

      To be fair, Sony treats Europe like ass too. Our release date for MGS3 is 'Q1 2005', and I don't think Katamari Damacy has a release date at all.

    6. Re:Got to agree... by DarKnyht · · Score: 1

      So you believe that you are entitled to extra features when a company is already spending tons of money on localization for 12+ countries? I think the fact that the game is in your native language should be extra enough for you. American gamers deal with the same thing in that games are released in Japan before the states, it is a fact of the industry. Localization takes time if it is done correctly.

      Or perhaps you would perfer everything to be written and sound like...

      "All your base are belong to us"

      --
      Voting them all out of office, now that's change I can believe in.
    7. Re:Got to agree... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      The point was that while Burnout 2 was released on all three systems Burnout 3 only came out for two and therefore dropped one. However, the one dropped was NOT the worst-selling one as the GC version of BO2 sold better than the XBox version. So why does the GC version get dropped?

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    8. Re:Got to agree... by TLSPRWR · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Nintendo's idea of innovation these days is to make a tacky new controller, charge a fortune for it and hope the fanboys buy enough that it breaks even."

      At the risk of sounding like a fanboy here (when I actually haven't touched my Cube in a while, my GBA more recently though), I have to say: What?
      Nintendo has almost always had some of the cheapest, high quality hardware on the market. I've seen videos of a Gamecube being thrown out of a car and dragged behind by a rope, and still running games after that. How much does it cost? $99. Try that with a $150 PS2 or XBox. I'm scared to death to lug my Xbox around, for fear of upsetting the hard drive with my precious saves on it. My Gamecube is perfectly content to be tossed around.
      Even Nintendo's newest handheld is also cheaper ($150) than Sony's offerings ($200), and the features seem to be the same for both (not asking for a feature battle there, I know the differences).

    9. Re:Got to agree... by prewashedironman · · Score: 1

      Well for a start games are normally only localised for the core EU markets - Taking a look on the back of the nearest GC game to me (ikaruga) i see - Game is in english, instructions in english, french, german, spanish, italian, finnish, norwegian and portuguese. Are you really telling me that it takes 6months for some translators to translate 1000words or so in a manual? I think not...

    10. Re:Got to agree... by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      It's not a translation issue - the UK is always miles behind too. Mario Tennis is out in a couple of months, Animal Crossing was about a year behind the US.
      Unless it takes six months to change a game to PAL?

    11. Re:Got to agree... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should have tried a different game as Ikaruga is one of the few games with little text and no translation (I have this slight feeling that it wasn't even translated for the US market seeing how much Engrish made it into the game). Take Paper Mario 2 and play it, that's a game that was actually translated to all the languages PAL games get translated to.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    12. Re:Got to agree... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      It's cheaper to make fewer versions of a product, having two PAL versions, one for the UK and one for the rest of the EU costs more than simply making one version for all of the involved countries and letting the UK players wait for their game a bit longer. For some reason selling the same version in Australia takes even longer to happen.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    13. Re:Got to agree... by Bobsledboy · · Score: 1

      Yep, its the same here in Australia. *sigh*

  12. Rediculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How rediculous. Nintendo is the second largest publisher in the buissness and they do it without making any PC, PS, or Xbox games. They can do it because they constantly publish A material. No other publisher pushes out as many AAA games a year. You might dismiss Nintendo but you can bet the people over at Sony and Microsoft sweat over what Nintendo is doing next.

    1. Re:Rediculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buddy, if you hadn't mentioned this, I would have. (I have in the past!)

      Nintendo is perennially at or near the top of the software sales charts, and they only do it on their own platforms. Their software is the how and why behind their guaranteed presence in the gaming industry, and all the smart third parties know it.

  13. What? by Inoshiro · · Score: 1

    The Dreamcast had lots of great games. In terms of AAA titles, given the time schedule we saw for other systems, I'd say it was only after mid 2003 that the Xbox had a better number of titles equal to the number of great titles on the Dreamcast (which, if launched at the same time as the Xbox, would've been announced as dead in Feb/March 2003).

    As for Nintendo being last, I haven't seen too many Nokia, Microsoft, or Sony handhelds going around lately... Even with the GBA lineup being largely shitty licences and crappy 2/3rds 3D overhead views, there manage to be excellent games available (Wars series, Boktai series, SquareEnix games). I could see Nintendo living on its handhelds for a long time if it ever did get into 3rd in the console market (which, last time I checked, wasn't happening; Microsoft was lucky enough to be in 3rd due to the lackluster sales in Japan -- no surprise there, the Xbox has no Japanese titles worth a damn).

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  14. Art House by Apreche · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It goes like this. Video games are just like every other medium of entertainment. Just like movies, music and TV. There are shows, films, games and songs to cover every genre across the board. What's happened to the video game industry mostly mirrors the film industry. There are shitty blockbuster movies which everyone sees that make a lot of money. But the people who know quality most often stick to art house theatres. There they get quality, but the people who make it get less money due to less marketing.

    Nintendo has made the error of making high quality games. People don't realize that the game itself and the theme of a game are two seperate things. For example, look at Star Trek and any daytime soap opera. Both are soap operas, the substance of the shows are identical, but the themes are different. One has an outer space theme and one has a theme of eviltown USA. But the actual substance of the thing is mostly the same.

    Nintendo makes high quality games. In fact, most of their games are the highest quality you can get. Just about anything that says Metroid, Mario or Zelda on it is top notch. But the theme, other than Metroid, is not one that appeals to punk teenage kids. They are too manly to buy a mario game even though they know it is better and more fun than GTA whatever. Always worried about graphics and self image instead of their actual gaming experience. So games like BMX XXX exist. These types of games are all the same crappy thing. They come in two genres, run around a shoot things and run around and beat things up, sometimes both. But like blockbuster movies with no substance they sell well.

    I'm not saying all Nintendo's games are flawless masterpieces. Nor am I saying that all games for other systems are crap. People on /. love to attack and infer broad sweeping generalisations like that. What I am saying is that overall Nintendo is concentrating on creating an innovative and new gaming experience that can be enjoyed by all people. As long as they profit, they're happy. All the other companies are mostly concerned with making a quick buck. So they release three GTA games that are all really the same with slightly changed themes. And they release a shitty FPS named Halo, twice, which is pretty much a modernized goldeneye plus vehicles and aliens. It makes them loads of cash the same way a blockbuster film does. But you can't honestly say that their games are high quality works of art. But if you play some Zelda or some Metroid its hard not to.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    1. Re:Art House by Aylanah · · Score: 1

      *Two thumbs up*

    2. Re:Art House by TheAdventurer · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Art House movies are shit, that's why no one sees them. I would rather see Spiderman or Star Wars over any art house film ever made ever.

      Art House movies are based on obscure facets of the human psyche that healthy, productive people can't relate to. That's why those moveis flop.

      The stupid blockbuster movies you pan are based on themes of heroism, romance, and adventure; themes that normal people relate to and admire. Thus, good sales.

    3. Re:Art House by Zenikase · · Score: 0

      This type of pretentious, uneducated spew gets rated "Insightful"? Oh wait, it's Slashdot.

    4. Re:Art House by Captain+Fallout · · Score: 1

      They are too manly to buy a mario game even though they know it is better and more fun than GTA whatever.

      What a unbelievable load of shit. How about the fact that I buy a GTA game because I like them a hell of a lot more than most Mario games.

    5. Re:Art House by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's exactly the point. Film students and film makers don't look to the latest blockbuster for quality or inspiration. They look for "real" movies. People like you enjoy the blockbuster movies and not the unknown films in the little theatre. That's why the blockbusters make more money. And you do enjoy those blockbusters.

      But the point is that you don't enjoy quality. You don't like the games that have strong gameplay substance. You don't enjoy games with solid puzzle, strategy and thinking elements. You don't enjoy games with rock solid gameplay and genre innovation. You enjoy a simple game of walking around killing things and blowing things up. You just want to push a button and watch someone die on the screen over and over again. And that's what you like, and that's ok.

      But know this. The same reason you like those games is the same reason that more people read romance novels than Shakespeare. Your taste in video games is unsophisticated. Nintendo is the Shakespeare of video games. Most people hate it. But it IS the best.

    6. Re:Art House by Captain+Fallout · · Score: 1

      What kind of whining pseudo-intellectual prattle are you spewing? Just because I prefer GTA over Mario I'm unsophisticated? Wow, there's some incredible logic for you, sparky. FYI, I own a GC as well as a PS2. I also still have my SNES and N64 and play them on a fairly regular basis. I'm assuming your "art house" imagination couldn't fathom that. I guess you wouldn't believe that I also own actual games for those systems too! How about that!

      Here's a little hint for you, just because something is appreciated by the mainstream doesn't automatically mean that it's not quality. Take a look at the LOTR trilogy if you don't believe me.

      Oh and if Nintendo is such art, please answer me why in the original Metroid for NES, the faster you finished the game, the more Samus' clothes came off?

    7. Re:Art House by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      I was with you until you said that the mario games were more fun than GTA. I've played a lot of mario games and although I have enjoyed them all at least to some degree (Mario Bros. 2 not so much, 3 very much, virtual boy mario tennis quite a bit, and paper mario: the thousand year door most of all) I enjoyed GTA3 more than any of them. It's not about masculine insecurity; as proof I submit that of red, blue, and purple, I chose purple as the color for the cast that's on my hand right now. It was about the varied gameplay, the [relatively] expansive and detailed environment, the imagination that clearly went into designing the game, and the fact that driving around crashing into stuff is fun to do in a video game. I'm not a fanboy of any system at all, and I play most genres of games, and I guess mt whole point is that you made a subjective comment as if it were objective. I think kids choosing to play GTA over mario sunshine is at the most a symptom of something else that makes them prefer such a game, but I see nothing wrong with it. Incidentally, all FPS games are essentially the same but the only thing goldeneye (basically a modernized doom without demons) has in common with halo is that they are both first person shooters on a console, which is silly IMO because FPS games are better on a PC anyway. Few games get targeting with a first or third person perspective right at all. There are two ways to do it - with a target locking system ala Zelda 64, or by making targets "sticky", causing the crosshairs to move a bit slower they move away from the middle of an enemy.

      I truly believe that all games are works of art, though I also believe that some artwork is more worthy than other art - and that the difference is entirely subjective.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Art House by leland242 · · Score: 1

      I respectfully disagree.

      I would say that the big blockbuster films allow for escape. You become Will Smith, infecting the alien hordes with your Mac virus. You are Ahnuld, shooting 348097 people without so much as a scratch.

      Many art house films are more honest than that. They can leave the viewer feeling a bit...queasy. Maybe the audience will question things a little more. They might *think*.

      That said, sign me up for some of those blockbuster pieces of shit. I know I'll be in line for Ep III on release day...

    9. Re:Art House by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      I can't help but feed the trolls today.

      I think many people just find blockbuster movies dull. Most of them are basically the same movie, with a storyline that can be summed up in a thirty second pitch to a producer. There's nothing wrong with that, and it has its place. It's nice to be able to switch your brain off and watch the good guys win because the evil robot forgot it could run at 100mph.

      But it's also nice to have films that are different and interesting. It depends how you're defining art-house, really. Fargo, Pulp Fiction, Hero, Supersize me, Sexy Beast, Lost in Translation, Before Sunset, to name a few, are not standard Spiderman-style blockbusters but were all very successful.

    10. Re:Art House by kisrael · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I'm a Nintendo fanboy, but GTA is something special, the way it has a great series of missions overlayed on a very real feeling world...a world that doesn't feel like it was handcrafted for the sake of playing the missions, which is something Nintendo never does. (I.e. the city seems to have its own agenda, it doesn't exist just for the player)

      And saying all the games in the series are the same thing w/ just thematic changes...no way. They really are trying to make it a better, more fun universe with each iteratin. VC added motorcycles, helicopters, more cut scenes, properties. SA cranked up the size, added more planes, returned gangs to the mix, and cranked up the minigames (sometimes w/ not great results, like the odd dancing games embedded...)

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    11. Re:Art House by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You don't like the games that have strong gameplay substance

      Bullshit, GTA has strong gameplay substance. It has a lot more than mario sunshine.

    12. Re:Art House by 0racle · · Score: 1

      There is as much complete and total crap coming out of Hollywood as there is from the lesser known studios and so called art houses. A great number of people who watch said art house movies do it simply to appear more intellegent and sophisticated, furthered by the 'if you dont like it your obviously to stupid to understand it' bullshit.

      Art house films leave normal people feeling queasy not because they are more honest, but because they were designed to, that is their gimmic. Its not a matter of getting you to think, but to shock you as much as they can while attempting to maintain the veneer of sophistication. Your not special because you watch independant films.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    13. Re:Art House by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      "Look at these people. They probably think they're having fun."

  15. NINTENDO relies on franchises? by Cecil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Welcome to bizzaro-world. Nintendo is the one console I've seen where non-franchise games seem to do well. I Ninja, Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin, P.N.03, and Tales of Symphonia are the majority of the games I've played on my GameCube lately, and they're all non-franchise as far as I can see. Compare this to Playstation 2, for example, where the games of choice at the moment are TOCA 2, Gran Turismo 4, Grand Theft Auto 3 San Andreas, Star Ocean 3, and Elder Scrolls 3, Final Fantasy 12... Maybe that's just me, but franchises certainly aren't what I was thinking about when I bought a GameCube.

    If anyone needs to invest in non-franchise games, it's the other two consoles. Hell, even the non-sequels that show up on Playstation 2 and X-Box seem to mostly be things like movie franchises. Ugh.

    1. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Viewtiful Joe and Pikmin both have sequels, thus making them a "franchise". Tales of Symphonia is an installment in a long existing franchise (the "Tales" series).

    2. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention he stuck a "3" in GTA: San Andreas in some kind of misguided effort to make it look franchise-ier. Defensive much?

    3. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by _xeno_ · · Score: 1

      Those are games for the GameCube, not Nintendo games (with the exception of Pikmin):

      • I-Ninja - NAMCO
      • Tales of Symphonia - NAMCO
      • PN03 - Capcom
      • Viewtiful Joe - Capcom

      Nintendo has, recently at least, been the Franchise King. Nintendo (as in, "published by Nintendo") GC games I've played recently:

      • Super Smash Brothers: Melee (based on a ton of Nintendo franchises melded into a game that I suck royally at)
      • Metroid Prime
      • Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
      • The Legend of Zelda: Wind Wakers

      All of those were based on a franchise. (Super Smash Brothers is pushing it, but it's hardly new and is the second in what can arguably be considered a franchise.)

      With the exception of Pikmin, I can't think of any new games that Nintendo has created recently that weren't based in some part on an existing franchise.

      That was the point of the article. While I guess it may be true that non-franchise games may get more of a chance on the GameCube, it's not really anything that Nintendo's doing to make it that way - my guess would be because there's just not as large a library for the GameCube, so non-franchise games get more press time.

      When it comes to games Nintendo makes, they really seem to be falling back almost exclusively on existing franchises - even if the game itself (say, Donkey Konga) has little or nothing to do with the franchise.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    4. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by jjsoh · · Score: 1
      Not to mention he stuck a "3" in GTA: San Andreas in some kind of misguided effort to make it look franchise-ier. Defensive much?

      You're right. Technically, it should be GTA 5:
      • GTA (PSX)
        GTA 2 (PSX)
        GTA 3 (PS2)
        GTA: Vice City (PS2)
        GTA: San Andreas (PS2)
    5. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by dsparil · · Score: 1

      Technically Tales of Symphonia is a franchise game. It's the fourth game in the Tales of... series. The first three are Tales of Phantasia (SNES/PSX/GBA), Tales of Destiny(PSX) and Tales of Eternia/Tales of Destiny II(PSX). Tales of Phantasia was the only one never to come out in the US.

    6. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget about GTA "1.5": London, 1969, which was just GTA with different cars on another city.

    7. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by Juanvaldes · · Score: 1

      But GTA 1 & 2 were ports from windows.

    8. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by jjsoh · · Score: 1

      Well, technically you're correct, as is the AC above you. However, since we're on the subject of console gaming, I purposely didn't choose other platforms, such as PC and even Gameboy/GBA. Otherwise, we'd see a dozen versions (not including the same version of the game on multiple platforms).

      Besides, I was just being facetious while attempting to add some level of truth. ^^;

    9. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the exception of Pikmin, I can't think of any new games that Nintendo has created recently that weren't based in some part on an existing franchise.

      Cubivore. Published and released by Atlus in the USA, but it was made by Nintendo and released by them in Japan. Rather rare in the US (only around 10,000 copies, I believe). Has the worst graphics of any game this generation, a horrid camera, meh music.....and yet I have yet to meet any person who has played it that didn't like it, and many people think it's the best game released this generation.

    10. Re:NINTENDO relies on franchises? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I have to add is, I agree completely.

      lamefilter
      emalfilter
      malefilter
      almefilter
      mealfilter
      maelfilter

  16. Online gaming is definately the present by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

    Telling people online gaming is where its at got me bad looks when I tried to appeal to a video game employer. Apparently the only video game company that ever interviewed me as a game designer, also just lost half their company to a split... The verant split to Everquest. So they didn't want to hear online gaming is a thing of the future. There's SOOOOO much you can do with online gaming, yet people barely touched the basics.

    Read up on my online racing game concept at: Racing
    It illustrates that if you allow users to build levels and other content, and have it available for play automatically to all, then you build a community and a growing game.

    1. Re:Online gaming is definately the present by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Less then 5% of people who own and play modern consoles, play online. It is not profitable.

    2. Re:Online gaming is definately the present by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More than 81.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

    3. Re:Online gaming is definately the present by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Multiply that number by about 3 and you'd be closer to the truth (not including gamecube, since it doesnt count)

      Don't you think Nintendo, a company that caters to niche markets (animal crossing/cubivore anyone?) should cater to suc a huge "niche"? Nintendo should give players what we want, not what they tell us to want

    4. Re:Online gaming is definately the present by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More than 16027% of people that choose to ignore true but distasteful statistics use the statistics joke as a defensive mechanism.

    5. Re:Online gaming is definately the present by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me tell you why your idea is flawed.

      Games are made to sell and to entertain and perhaps to teach a little, but not to achieve some designer's wet dream of becoming "the greatest online community experience ever." There are diminishing returns on community-building as with any feature. People get hooked primarily by the core gameplay, and unless it's a face-to-face game(which it isn't, because it's online as you stated), or the gameplay allows for an absolutely enormous range of playing styles, the actual players won't matter a great deal.

      The end result, of course, being that you cannot give players only the tools. Their energy is driven entirely by your dream. You have to make something worthwhile first, and then they (might) want to give something in return.

  17. Innovamatation by BlastM · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Sadly, Nintendo is in the business of playing it safe.


    As opposed to... what? Who's pushing the boundaries like Nintendo is at the moment? Sure, the Big N uses familiar franchises pretty often (which is the only gripe I could find the author had). That's to build on established brands, a common marketing strategy.

    Despite familiar characters and storylines, Nintendo's in-house games are some of the most original and interesting available today, whereas Sony and Microsoft will play host to the latest multiplayer futuristic shooter or various racing games. Sony practically produces nothing in-house, yet the worldwide PS2 sales are well above GameCube, a distant second place, and Xbox.

    The author of the article claims that Nintendo doesn't try new things, and then mentions Super Mario Sunshine. Sunshine tried a new concept, and the fact is that it wasn't well-recieved. EAD tried a new approach to the genre, but it's not their fault people didn't like it.

    And that's the thing about innovation. New ideas usually don't start a revolution; they can often backfire, as did the Virtual Boy, or (to a far lesser extent) the graphical style of the new Zelda. For every hit, there are a number of misses. For every DS, there is a Virtual Boy, and an innovator must be prepared for that. Most take the easy, tried-but-true path and use a proven formula to produce a mediocre game, where success of some degree is guaranteed.

    The problem with the article is that the author is trying to directly relate innovation with market domination, but if that were the case, Sony wouldn't be in the position they are today.
    1. Re:Innovamatation by theREALMcCoy · · Score: 1
      Here here! Nintendo is the king of innovation. Power Pad, Power Glove, Rumble Pak, 4-Player Ports, Handheld Gaming, Wireless Controls... It goes on and on.
    2. Re:Innovamatation by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Were there ever any NES games that used the dance pad side of the Power Pad?

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    3. Re:Innovamatation by Zenikase · · Score: 0

      FLUDD in Mario Sunshine was little more than a gimmick. You'll find that most people who played the game strogly preferred the mini-levels that didn't use FLUDD.

      And there lies the rub. Nintendo doesn't innovate anymore. The best they can come up with are one-time gimmicks that have no enduring impact or effect. Hell, the last real innovation I can remember in a Nintendo console game was the lock-on combat system from Ocarina of Time.

      Oh, and I just want to remind all the mindless drones that there is plenty of innovation outside of happy Nintendoland. As far as consoles go, Sony has well surpassed Nintendo this generation: ICO, Katamari Damacy, Frequency/Amplitude, Devil May Cry, and Metal Gear Solid 2, not to mention the multipurpose EyeToy peripheral.

    4. Re:Innovamatation by Zenikase · · Score: 0

      Hell, for all the flak it gets, GTA3 was also very innovative in its free-roaming non-linearity.

    5. Re:Innovamatation by StocDred · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Nintendo doesn't innovate anymore.

      You're confusing "games that I don't like" with "games that don't innovate." Nintendo has personally brought us:
      - a game that takes place in real time whether you're playing or not
      - games that use GBAs as additional screens
      - a card game that uses a GBA for scannable minigames
      - a peripheral for playing GBA games on your TV
      - a genre-busting combination of puzzle and RTS
      - bongos, for both a rhythm game and a platformer
      - voice input
      - touch screen
      - a game based around 100s of 3 second minigames
      - first party wireless controllers

      And those are all recent ones. Just because not all of these items were a huge success and thus repeated many times over, that does not mean they weren't innovations. The whims of the marketplace turn gimmicks into innovations... and I'll back the guys resposible for the d-pad, analog sticks, and portable gaming as we know it. I'll give them a couple floppy gimmicks (R.O.B.) in order to score the bigger hits (wireless controllers that don't suck).

      And for the record, I hated the no-FLUDD levels in Sunshine.

    6. Re:Innovamatation by StocDred · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Thanks for keeping the discussion upbeat, dickhead.

      Unlocking features by buying new hardware addons just SCREAMS marketing. Oh, and the last one is just a newer version of the Super Game Boy for SNES.

      First of all, marketing is what we're talking about. It happens to be how companies make money. Microsoft isn't playing at marketing with Halo 2.5? Sony doesn't market their HDD when you attempt to play Resident Evil Outbreak and find that it sucks?

      The games I brought up, Four Swords Adventures and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles did not unlock additional content... the GBA/Cube connection was a major part of the game design. You're thinking of connection bonuses, like unlocking original Metroid when you hook up Prime and Fusion... but that's always been a half-empty/half-full problem. You're seeing a dirty ploy to get you to buy both a GBA and a Cube. I'm seeing a nice bonus for those who already have them. Although original Metroid is pretty lousy.

      I was also thinking of Mario Party-e, an actual card game (you know, with paper cards) that uses the eReader and a GBA for quickie minigames.

      Forgot about the Super Game Boy, though. Point for you there.

      Bongos. Did you read what I wrote? Of course it's a gimmick. So was the analog stick, once upon a time. I'm not saying that every next-gen console is coming with built-in bongos... but it's still something different that Nintendo threw out there when nobody expected it. Innovation. And you know, if every gamer on the planet bought it, we definitely would have built-in bongos on the next round of systems.

      With voice input and touch screen I was thinking of the DS, actually. Probably should have either specifically said the DS, or pointed out how the DS uses both in new ways, like blowing out candles and vomiting goldfish and whatnot. So your stance would be that if Company B improves upon what Company A did ten years ago, that's no longer innovating? You're not going to see a lot of innovation in your life that way. Is the Xbox hard drive innovative? I'm repeatedly told that it is.

      And anyway, Nintendo had a mic input on the Famicom.

      Wavebird. Wireless controllers were a joke for years... the sort of thing nobody expected to work since they sucked for so long. Then Nintendo did it right. And despite losing the rumble feedback (was that also a Nintendo innovation?), the Wavebird has become one of the singular best features of the Gamecube. Taking something that was a common joke among old time gamers and making it absolutely essential is awful damn close to innovation.

      And I'm calling Pikmin the RTS/puzzle combo. I'm sure I ripped that out of a review somewhere.

      All companies have tossed their share of innovations into the ring, and Nintendo more than anyone over the course of their history. Their greatest modern failing is the lack of online games, which affects them more in the court of public opinion than anywhere else (and even that is only in the hardcore gamer's court of public opinion, not families, non-gamers or occasional gamers.) If this whole discussion is going to degrade into a semantic fight over "gimmick" versus "innovation," then it's already a waste. A gimmick is simply an innovation that doesn't procreate.

    7. Re:Innovamatation by theREALMcCoy · · Score: 1

      Funny, I was just thinking about this the other day. There was a dance game called DanceArobics. Kind of a forerunner to DDR.

    8. Re:Innovamatation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nintendo wasn't the first to do something like the bongos; there was a game called Samba de Amigo for the Dreamcast, which came with (electronic) maracas. There was also a keyboard attachment, which you could use to play games like "Typing of the Dead", or use with an attachable mouse to play the Dreamcast version of Quake 3 just like you'd play it on the PC. The Dreamcast was also the first console to come with network connectivity as part of the basic package.

      I agree with most of your points, and I feel that Nintendo is a prime innovator in the console business; they just aren't (or weren't, in the case of Sega) the only one.

    9. Re:Innovamatation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Oh, and I just want to remind all the mindless drones that there is plenty of innovation outside of happy Nintendoland."

      True.

      "As far as consoles go, Sony has well surpassed Nintendo this generation: ICO, Katamari Damacy, Frequency/Amplitude, Devil May Cry, and Metal Gear Solid 2, not to mention the multipurpose EyeToy peripheral."

      False, especially since Sony only developed ICO, whereas the others were developed by Namco, Harmonix Music Systems, Capcom, and Konami respectively. If by "surpassed" you mean Sony has garnered better 3rd party support, then you are correct.

      In terms of innovative development, however, it's hard to measure since Nintendo has the unfair advantage of being in the console gaming industry longer than Sony. And as far as the EyeToy goes, it's just as gimmicky as the other Nintendo peripherals, like the Donkey Konga congos.

    10. Re:Innovamatation by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      The peripheral for playing GBA games on the TV is not innovative - the super game boy is :) nor is voice input (it's been done before) nor the touch screen (people DO play games on PDAs) and adding "first party" to "wireless controllers" isn't innovation in the least. Nintendo does have a history of innovation, some of it pretty pointless from anything but a marketing standpoint (like R.O.B.) and some of it having failed utterly (Virtual Boy.) R.O.B., which you do mention, was necessary to get the NES into stores when video games appeared (to these short-sighted companies like montgomery ward which is no more) to have no future.

      The vast majority of nintendo's innovation is in the games. They also have a history of making game platforms with more graphics capabilities than anyone else, starting with the SNES. The NES is the only exception, as it was outclassed by both its competitors, NEC's TG16 and Sega's Master System. The 'cube may also be behind in this area (though not behind sony) depending on who you talk to, but it hardly matters at this point since the graphics slugfest is now between Nintendo and Microsoft - at least until the next generation of consoles.

      I think the d-pad deserves more recognition than anything else on the list. Joysticks are horrible for anything other than fighting games and flight sims or 'mech sims. Well, they're not too bad for driving games, I guess.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Innovamatation by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      iirc rumble is a sony innovation if you can call it that - arcade games had vibration feedback long before the advent of the vibrating controller.

      The original metroid, by the way, is not lousy. It's the best purely 2D platformer of all time. Of course, people have said the same about both ice climber and kid icarus, as well as sonic, bonk's adventure, etc etc. Clearly a matter of opinion, but no platformer ever captivated me and kept me in front of the TV like the quest to destroy mother brain.

      If it helps, the Xbox's HDD is not revolutionary, it's evolutionary. While they are admittedly vastly different, memory cards are storage devices which can be used to hold game content - witness the custom tags in Jet Set Radio Future. Now, the DC VMU, that was innovation. Too bad the VMU has such horribly awful battery life, and too bad they did so little with it, perhaps as a result of the abysmal battery life and high cost of CR2032 cells.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Innovamatation by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      Left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right, *line*, jump off the pad, wait three seconds, jump back on the back, WORLD LONG JUMP RECORD!!!!

      I was the grand master at World Class Track Meet....for a couple days. I think that pad got two days of use. Even kids could see right through it being presented as a game controller and looked at it as another lame attempt to force them to get excercise. I think the jumping off the pad cheat was retaliation :)

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
    13. Re:Innovamatation by cluke · · Score: 1

      Hell yeah! A game that takes place in a fully functioning city, that goes about its business whether you choose to interact with it or not.. it's like Elite, only with crime! And now people are saying it wasn't innovative?

    14. Re:Innovamatation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great times! I always lost to my brother on that game. He figured out that you didn't really have to lift your feet to run, you just had to move your feet fast enough.

      I think they should bring the power pad back. Could you imagine a Grand Theft Auto with the power pad, light gun and a steering wheel?

    15. Re:Innovamatation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      - a game that takes place in real time whether you're playing or not

      Sega Saturn had a game that did that.

      - games that use GBAs as additional screens

      Dreamcast did that, with VMUs AND NeoGeoPocket Color

      - a peripheral for playing GBA games on your TV

      Thats not innovative, third party companies did that before, and they didnt need a cube

      - bongos, for both a rhythm game and a platformer

      That was Namco, and it was a remixed port of their PS2 game

      - voice input

      Been done before

      - touch screen

      Been done before

      - a game based around 100s of 3 second minigames

      Worst idea for a game, ever

    16. Re:Innovamatation by ElleyKitten · · Score: 1

      The original metroid, by the way, is not lousy.

      The orginal metroid isn't lousy, but having to connect both metroid prime and fusion in order to play it is.

      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
    17. Re:Innovamatation by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Funny, I just pop it into my NES or fire up the emulator on the ole Xbox. :) It's just a bonus for the old schoolers and fanboys who bought all that nintendo stuff.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Innovamatation by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      And for the record, I hated the no-FLUDD levels in Sunshine.

      This is entirely off the topic, but...

      I loved those levels. Void levels, we call them. If you're sharp, you can absolutely rule at them, though woe be to the gamer who hasn't put in his time on Mario 64.

      Well, I did put in my time on those, and lately I finished the giant-rotating-wooden-blocks one in Ricco Bay, after not playing for a year, on the first attempt. Now that's design!

      When I first started playing Sunshine, I used to react with dread when I saw a Shine with the word "secret" in the title. Now, I'll obsess on those levels, and actually think they're too easy!

      I'm not saying this is good or bad. Just that I really like void levels now. Heh.

    19. Re:Innovamatation by barawn · · Score: 1

      iirc rumble is a sony innovation if you can call it that

      You don't recall correctly.

      The N64's Rumble Pak was the original rumble accessory for a console system, released in 1997. Hence the reason we call it "rumble", not "shock" - as in, "dual shock", which was Sony's name for it. The dualshock controller didn't come out until almost a year later.

  18. I for one would like to know where his #s source by gmezero · · Score: 1

    Because according to Nintendo's own financial statements each console has sold more than it's predecssor by a significant amount, due mostly to the fact that there are more and more people turning to video games as entertainement each year, and because there are always new children born into this world. I really get sick of these articles which are the drivel of an person who was a fan of Nintendo back when "system x" was the king, and don't understand why "system z" has the same games. Well bub, it's because most of the "system z" owners never even heard of "system x" except in a museum and most of "system x's" games look like puke to them. Get over it.

  19. Running itself into the ground, alright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, right into the ground...

    The article's premise is ridiculous and unsupported by evidence. Nintendo's franchise games are:

    a) Consistently among the highest-quality games available for any system, and

    b) Consistently among the top sellers for Nintendo systems.

    Nintendo are ancient master game makers, and if there's anything - anything about their business that they know how to do well, it's make games.

    Nintendo does have problems and a dismal outlook for the future, but its product quality is not the issue. Its real problems are corporate mergermania and technology convergence, which are in tandem killing off or causing to be absorbed any and all companies with narrow focus interests. Nintendo could make the best games in history, but versus monolithic conglomerates with inexhaustible resources, in the long run, they can't win. It's actually a testament to Nintendo's competence that they've survived so long.

    Nintendo's destiny may be to die out or be absorbed, but to blame the game quality for that is ridiculous and utterly wrongheaded. Their best games are as good as the other guys', at least - it's the other areas where they fail to scale. You may as well say that Starbucks and WalMart killed every local business in America because of "better quality products". In most cases, it was actually because of "same quality products, way more resources". As it is with Nintendo.

    1. Re:Running itself into the ground, alright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That link points to some virtual tour of the Bank of Japan. WTF?

    2. Re:Running itself into the ground, alright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      errm

      More like Nintendo consistently gets massive hype for their mediocre games. Super Mario Sunshine was not all it was cracked up to be, especially compared some of the platformers on the ps2. In fact, you could probably find a better alternative to a lot of nintendo games on another console.

      What's sad is that when I ask Nintendo fans what the best games they make are, I get answers like "Smash Brothers or Eternal Darkness". Ok, so how about something in the past three years?

      Nintendo games are good, but don't make them out to be so much more superior than other companies offerings.

    3. Re:Running itself into the ground, alright... by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      The article's premise is ridiculous and unsupported by evidence. Nintendo's franchise games are:

      a) Consistently among the highest-quality games available for any system, and

      b) Consistently among the top sellers for Nintendo systems.


      Man, it's too bad the article didn't bring up both of those points... Oh wait, it did. How about you try reading for a change?

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    4. Re:Running itself into the ground, alright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "all the way to the bank" (of japan, that is).

  20. Um.... by unclethursday · · Score: 1
    From the article:

    "Perhaps, the largest success story of this generation would have to be Halo: Combat Evolved for the Xbox. The game continues to top the charts after nearly three years on the market. Why? Because it features polished gameplay and a completely original world and story; it was fresh, it was new, it was fun, and it was immersive."

    Fresh? New? It's the spiritual successor to Bungie's Marathon series, and another FPS where you are against aliens, hardly fresh or new. It sold so well because for the first year, there wasn't much of anything else for the Xbox for the masses to embrace.

    I'd agree it was immersive, the first time through, but after that the multiplayer was the only reason to pick it up again, certainly not the single player (unless you wanted to beat it on harder difficulty levels)... but the only difference in the ending is on Legendary, and it's a dumb but funny change. And, honestly, except at a friend's house for LAN games, I haven't touched the original Halo since I beat it. I've also pretty much stopped playing Halo 2, even online, because there's a ton of issues that need to be fixed.

    1. Re:Um.... by musicman2059 · · Score: 0

      "Perhaps, the largest success story of this generation would have to be Halo: Combat Evolved for the Xbox. The game continues to top the charts after nearly three years on the market. Why? Because it features polished gameplay and a completely original world and story; it was fresh, it was new, it was fun, and it was immersive."

      Or was it because Halo was the only decent game to ever come out on the XBOX?

      --
      When you need great justice, take off every zig.
  21. AAA titles? Where? by discoalucardx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Everyone keeps saying "Nintendo makes the best games!!!", completely forgetting that that's all kinds of their opinion. The only real AAA title that came out of Nintendo this year, to me, was Metroid Prime 2. They did some other decent stuff this year, like Pikmin 2 and Paper Mario 2, but otherwise? I don't like sports games, so the formula of "mascot + wacky + sport" doesn't appeal to me. I never liked Mario Kart (still don't) and could not possibly care less about the Mario Party games. Given my taste in games, that crosses out a huge number of the first party games. I dig Zelda and F-Zero (the most recent being a Sega game technically) but Nintendo as a whole just doesn't seem to make games that I like. And then there's the overeliance on mascots. See, I'm of the opinion that the Ratchet and Clank games are pretty much the best 3D platformers ever made. It's not innovative, but it certainly is polished to all hell, and it's a lot of fun. But you'd never see Mario running around with an assortment of laser guns. Why? Because that's not what Mario does. Similarly, what if they tried to put Fable-esque elements into the Zelda games, like havi you make moral choices? Well, again, Link wouldn't possibly be evil or shack up with chicks, because it doesn't fit into the tone of the franchise. These shackles, most of it coming from being family friendly, ultimately do more harm than good.

    1. Re:AAA titles? Where? by M.C.+Hampster · · Score: 1

      You're what, like 14? 15?

      I don't mean it as a slam, I'm honestly curious.

      --
      Forget the whales - save the babies.
    2. Re:AAA titles? Where? by discoalucardx · · Score: 1
      23. Been playing games since I was 5.

      Even when I was young, I preferred the likes of Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden over Mario. It's more part of my tastes rather than my age.

    3. Re:AAA titles? Where? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Everyone keeps saying "Nintendo makes the best games!!!", completely forgetting that that's all kinds of their opinion. The only real AAA title that came out of Nintendo this year, to me, was Metroid Prime 2.

      This is only half-true, that quality issues are matters of opinion.

      The only real way to know whether something is a classic or not is through hindsight. Twenty years from now.

      How many units did Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot sell? Which is the game most fondly remembered today? That's what I mean.

      We can come up with some good guesses now, however. And while there may not be an objective measure of quality, you cannot entirely throw out the design strengths of the games either.

      They did some other decent stuff this year, like Pikmin 2 and Paper Mario 2, but otherwise?

      Eternal Darkness didn't bust any blocks, but it was great as far as its story goes. Zelda: Wind Waker is absolutely stellar, no matter how many ill-formed "opinions" people spout off about how it looks.

      And Pikmin 2, by the way, is incredible, so much of an improvement over the original it isn't funny. Maybe that's just an opinion, but consider it an informed one.

      I'm not a Nintendo fan in all areas. I could do without the constant, unending stream of Mario Party games, for example. Anything with the word "Hamtaro" in the title I'd like very much to ignore. And Pokemon is a thing that used to appeal to me but doesn't any more, despite the surreal design strengths of every game in the series.

      But Nintendo does still make AAA titles. It's true, however, that games matching my own tastes are relatively few in number at the moment.

    4. Re:AAA titles? Where? by jesdynf · · Score: 1
      But you'd never see Mario running around with an assortment of laser guns. Why? Because that's not what Mario does.

      Super Smash Brothers Melee. /I/ think it's one of the most innovative games there's ever been. Wonderful graphics, amazing scores, incredible control, inspiring attention to detail...

      And Princess Peach can shoot you with a star wand, chuck the wand at you, then throw a vegetable up into the air in time to stun Ganondorf coming in from overhead while she deflects Mario's laser pistol barrage.

      Beautiful game, elegant handicapping, it's the GameCube's first and foremost reason to have four controllers.

      And the game is made by mascots. Nobody could've given less of a damn if it had sixteen guys (and girls and persons of color, thank you Fusion Frenzy) nobody had ever heard of before.

      It had to be Jigglypuff smashing Donkey Kong with the Hammer, or it just wouldn't work.
      --
      Yahoo! Pipes are awesome. How awesome? http://pipes.yahoo.com/jesdynf/slashdot
  22. I could be wrong... by clu76 · · Score: 1

    But wasn't Nintendo the second largest publisher of video games last year, right under Electronic Arts? Even if the gamecube is in a solid third place, they sell a ton more first person titles than both Sony and Microsoft.

    Until Nintendo starts losing money (they are still very profitable), there isn't a problem. And when that day comes, they could easily convert over to a software only company. At which point they'd probably have a good chance of overshadowing EA. I hope that day never comes, as I really enjoy how well their games and hardware integrate with each other.

    --
    the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
  23. Nintendo: Wait for Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When Apple ran itself into the ground, Microsoft came along and bailed it out.

    1. Re:Nintendo: Wait for Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, unlike Apple, Nintendo has this weird thing they make called a profit.

    2. Re:Nintendo: Wait for Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft's $150 million investment in Apple was a sham. It was a show of support for the sake of the press. Usage of the word "beleaguered" in the press and on the internet plummeted sharply thereafter.

      The real money exchanged hands in the form of legal settlements, but it still didn't do much for Apple's bottom line. Apple, no, STEVE JOBS just needed to let people know that there was no reason that Apple and Microsoft couldn't coexist in the technology market - which is absolutely right. Sales shot up and pundits shut up.

      As for Nintendo, the suggestion is just bullet-in-the-forehead stupid. They have money, are profitable, and gain forward momentum with every single hardware and software release they put out. The last thing they need is supplemental financial backing, even less than Apple did (and they didn't need it either). The well-meaning but idiotic fanboys and the worthless/mindless haters can kiss my ass. Nintendo will continue to do well without either of their contributions.

  24. Toasted Witches by AtariAmarok · · Score: 1
    "Well, at least in Canada. Mhh, toasted witches. I guess I could do without the sand but, hey, you can't have it all..."

    You can get even better at the nearby Kentucky Fried Wiccan franchise.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    1. Re:Toasted Witches by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      Pretending to be a four-star restaruant since 1957?

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  25. Re:This article is right on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is this a troll? The DS is selling very well. And of course, good sales = not running into the ground.

    Moderators need brain transplants.

  26. What a strange thing to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nintendo has screwed itself by losing the market that can buy things on a whim? And you demonstrate this by explaining how you bought a Nintendo product on a whim?

    1. Re:What a strange thing to say by Malevolyn · · Score: 1

      No no, I'm saying that even though the buying power of the parents of young children is much higher, it's not going to be used nearly as much as people in their mid and upper teens.

      I just used the DS story as an example of what most parents won't do.

      --
      Your ad here.
  27. DS, schmee-ess! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For what it's worth, the DS isn't an entirely new portable. It's an amalgamation of the original Game & Watch and Tiger's game.com, with added wireless connectivity to bring it into the 21st century.

    That's right, the commercials with the blue-haired midget. XTREEEME.

  28. Link evil? No, more like a screw-up by MMaestro · · Score: 1
    This is offtopic but Link in the Zelda games hasn't exactly been immune to failure either.

    Zelda : Link to the Past for the SNES/GBA, he fails to save Zelda from being sent to the dark world and the priest whos supposed to help her hide gets killed.
    Zelda : Ocarina of Time for the N64, he pulls the Master Sword out about 10 years too early and plunges the world (at least Hyrule) into a post-apocalypse place and only managed to fix things thanks to time travel.
    Zelda : Majora's Mask, this time he screws up even before the game begins losing Epona, his ocarina and then getting transformed into a Deku kid.
    Zelda : Wind Waker, his sister gets kidnapped, he manages to lose his sword about 15 minutes after getting it after getting shot at a stone wall from a cannon, he lets Zelda get kidnapped and then he leads Ganondorf to the sunken Castle of Hyrule.

    Admittedly most of this is just to move the plot along, but jeez! How many times can you let the princess/his sister get kidnapped? Time travel? Please, thats probably the least original theme to be used in a video game. And why does he keep 'accidentally' helping the Ganondorf one way or another? Doesn't he have any friends he can count on to hide Zelda?

    1. Re:Link evil? No, more like a screw-up by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not an over-and-over again type of thing.

      Each one pretty much takes place under the pretense that the past ones didn't, except for maybe Ocrarina of Time -> Majora's Mask.

      Personally, I think the SNES game (Link to the Past) was a piece of perfection.

  29. Games R too costly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cube games aren't affordable enough. They are always priced high, and it's really hard to ever find bargains, whereas on PS2 there are always tons of bargain games, or new games get discounted quickly.

    1. Re:Games R too costly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So Nintendo's not doing well because they have less games in the bargain bin?

      *Boggle*

  30. Samba De Amigo by TLSPRWR · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "new bulky hardware for a genre that mostly runs off one game, DDR"

    Though DDR has overshadowed most games in the Rythmn/dance genre, a most underrated game that hardly saw American shores was Samba De Amigo (here and here). It started off as an arcade game with maraca controllers (something you wouldn't likely see in American arcades), and was then ported to the Dreamcast. They even had maraca controllers for the 'real' experience. I guess it was the failure of the Dreamcast (Despite the many good games released for it), or the strangness of shaking maracas to latin beat with a dancing monkey, but it's one game you aren't likely to see in stores again, despite the enormous enjoyment one can get out of it.
    Perhaps if the monkey had been Donkey Kong it would have taken off?

    1. Re:Samba De Amigo by urbaer · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if the monkey had been Donkey Kong it would have taken off?
      Or perhaps Sonic... hmmm... that'd be interesting for Sega to do... Sonic Bongo Battle

  31. Non-existant television marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you wonder why Nintendo's consoles are struggling?

  32. Your logic is flawed by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

    51% of homes in the US have broadband and its rising. Of course only 5% people play online. I can't think of a single online console game worth playing. If they knew how to make an online console game correctly, more people would play online.

    1. Re:Your logic is flawed by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      But the USA only makes up 50% of the market served by Nintendo. Broadband penetration and internet gaming acceptance is much lower in Europe and Japan.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  33. The thing that bothers me the most... by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nintendo is the only remaining console producer who has strong first party development. Sony is beginning to try their hand at it with stuff like Gran Turismo and ICO... but they don't make nearly as many games as Nintendo. Nintendo was able to keep the N64 afloat pretty much single handedly through some skilled 1st and 2nd party development. Sony in comparison relies almost entirely on 3rd parties to sell their systems. Nobody would have bought a PS2 if not for Square, Konami, and Enix. Microsoft relies pretty much entirely on their marketting and Halo. I have to wonder when that's going to blow up in their face, but that's beside the point.

    My point is that Nintendo is the only console manufacturer with strong game development internally. They are consistently among the top publishers, and although they rely on a core set of mascots to sell their games, each game of a franchise is often quite different from its siblings. (take Paper Mario to Mario RPG to Mario and Luigi, or Metroid Prime to Super Metroid for example).

    I just think it's a little absurd to rag on Nintendo for lack of innovation while Sony and Microsoft don't even make their own games for the most part, and when they do, they are often sequels as well. And most of the 3rd party developers prefer to build on their franchises as well. (Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, Kingdom Hearts, etc. etc.) I just happen to see a lot of new stuff on GameCube, such as Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin, Super Monkey Ball, Ikaruga, etc. And such games are often greatly appreciated.

    1. Re:The thing that bothers me the most... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Sony is beginning to try their hand at it with stuff like Gran Turismo and ICO...

      Gran Turismo is the best racing series ever. Mario Kart has no chance of topping it ever. And from what I keep hearing, ICO kicks Zelda's ass. So its quality/sony > quantity/nintendo

    2. Re:The thing that bothers me the most... by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think that the best racing series ever is Burnout. That is... if you are talking aout real life racing. But I bought both Burnout and Mario Kart, because I think that the two complement eachother quite nicely.

      As for ICO, I want to play it, but I am having a very hard time finding it. But I do know that there are 2 Zelda games in my top 10 games of all time list... which really says a lot about them. I think again, it's probably a matter of preference, rather than one being clearly better than the other.

      My point is that Nintendo completely stomps Sony in the long run. I mean, look at Super Smash Bros Melee for instance. I doubt that any other developer short of Sega could have made such a game. Because only Nintendo owns enough characters to make such a game work.

    3. Re:The thing that bothers me the most... by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      I just happen to see a lot of new stuff on GameCube, such as Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin, Super Monkey Ball, Ikaruga, etc. And such games are often greatly appreciated.

      Yeah, and only Pikmin is made by Nintendo and isn't also available on other systems (and Super Monkey Ball and Ikaruga were both previously released on other systems). Third parties make innovative games for every system - a lot of GC fans just don't seem to pay attention for some 'mysterious' reason. Rez, Katamari Damacy, Kingdom Under Fire: the Crusaders, Psi-ops, Fatal Frame, etc. etc. etc. It isn't like non-Gamecube owners are lost in a wasteland of boring console franchises.

      (And the Gamecube gets less of these games than the Xbox or especially the PS2 do, though it is surprisingly close considering how unprofitable the Gamecube is for third parties.)

      And most of the 3rd party developers prefer to build on their franchises as well. (Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, Kingdom Hearts, etc. etc.)

      That isn't really very fair. Every 'original' game you mentioned except Ikaruga (which to some extent is a sequel itself!) has also seen a sequel this generation. Halo, Splinter Cell, and Kingdom Hearts are all new creations of this console generation, just like Pikmin or Viewtiful Joe are.

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  34. This is a world where by imr · · Score: 1

    you can waste 2 billions dollars on one console and have it said succesfull because it has one best selling title (which btw isnt innovative at all, being a rather dull fps) and have nintendo being shown as unsuccessfull because they base their profitable business on their conception of what games should be.
    This is a world which never ceases to amaze me.

    1. Re:This is a world where by Pluvius · · Score: 0

      you can waste 2 billions dollars on one console and have it said succesfull because it has one best selling title

      Also because it has the best graphics of the current console generation (especially important to the casual gamer) as well as third-party support rivalling that of Sony. And this is coming from a person who thought that the XBox was going to be a massive failure of a PC substitute back when it launched.

      Rob

    2. Re:This is a world where by Grey+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Also because it has the best graphics of the current console generation (especially important to the casual gamer)

      Actually, it doesn't. Microsoft just markets it as such.

  35. You forgot to de-ecks by tepples · · Score: 1

    Donkey Konga is a risk... new bulky hardware for a genre that mostly runs off one game, DDR

    You mean two. The other wildly popular music game in Japan is Beatmania IIDX.

    1. Re:You forgot to de-ecks by nekura · · Score: 1

      Actually, Pop'n Music and IIDX are the two big rhythm games in Japan; DDR has lost almost all of its steam over there.

      --

      "Programming is like sex - one mistake and you'll have to support it for the rest of your life."
    2. Re:You forgot to de-ecks by Zorilla · · Score: 1
      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
    3. Re:You forgot to de-ecks by cluke · · Score: 1

      Holy shit. You gotta think though, for the amount of time that guy must have put in and dexterity he obviously has, he should've just spent the time learning the piano or keyboard or something and he would've gained a skill that more than .01% of the population might be impressed by...

    4. Re:You forgot to de-ecks by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      Yeah, haha. The filename of that video I have saved to my home machine is called, "You Have to Be Japanese to Play This Game.mpg"

      This video justs reinforces my idea that Japanese people are inherently better at playing games than westerners (ok, supposedly Bayou Billy was harder than its Japanese region counterpart, but otherwise...)

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
    5. Re:You forgot to de-ecks by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      (ok, supposedly Bayou Billy was harder than its Japanese region counterpart, but otherwise...)

      Actually it is really hard to find a game with different regional difficulty levels made in the last decade that is otherwise. Most Japanese games nowadays are made harder for Westerners, since most Japanese gamers want their games really ridiculously easy.

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  36. Six times the DVD capacity by tepples · · Score: 0

    GameCube game media can hold up to 1.35 GiB. Xbox and PS2 game media can hold up to 7.95 GiB. Would you want to have to swap discs several times during gameplay?

    1. Re:Six times the DVD capacity by gyrojoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That may be true, but the question is, does Burnout 3 need that much space? My guess is no. The previous two games didn't seem to have a problem. It's a racing game after all...

    2. Re:Six times the DVD capacity by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      Xbox and PS2 game media can hold up to 7.95 GiB.

      Aren't dual-layer DVDs more like 8.7 GB, or is there some other limit I don't know about?

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
    3. Re:Six times the DVD capacity by tepples · · Score: 1

      Aren't dual-layer DVDs more like 8.7 GB, or is there some other limit I don't know about?

      "Some other limit" is the difference between a GB and a GiB. Go search for "gibibyte".

    4. Re:Six times the DVD capacity by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      Strange. I always thought the GiB was just what non-Americans called it. I guess it is nice to be specific abount the base 8 GB being used.

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  37. A view from a different kind of gamer by Daimando · · Score: 1

    Basically, it's not just Nintendo that's overdoing it with the franchises. It's pretty much the entire industry. Most of the time, the people who buy video games, regardless of what they buy, would rather buy a sequel to a game that they like, instead of something original. Back then, there was always something new to enjoy(Ex: Mario Bros, Contra, Zelda, Castlevania, Mega Man, Sonic, Street Fighter, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles(Okay, so that was a franchise, but it was executed good). But nowadays, most games you find aren't as good quality as games of yesterday. The topic should have been dubbed "Video Games running itself into the ground?" since basically, everyone's been following the same pattern that Nintendo is following in terms of franchises. Not to mention, it should have focused more on the industry in general.

  38. Re:I for one would like to know where his #s sourc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you are kidding right? google for the answer fanboy. if nintenho comes out with the revolution it will only sell 10mil at most. nontenho is dead.

  39. Nintendo not innovating? by Cap'n+Steve · · Score: 1
    Maybe not much in their games' subjects, but why reinvent something when you can just improve it?

    Some of their hardware innovations (feel free to rip me a new one if I'm wrong):

    • First analog controller (N64)
    • First "rumble" feature (N64)
    • First touchscreen (DS)
    • First analog shoulder buttons (Gamecube)

    In addition, I think Super Mario 64 pretty much invented the whole "go from the main world into various sub-worlds and collect something shiny" theme used so often in modern platformers.
    1. Re:Nintendo not innovating? by drfeces · · Score: 1

      With Super Mario 64, Nintendo didn't invent the "go from the main world...collect something shiny". They invented the "3D platformer" itself. Almost every modern 3D game in existence has something in it that was originally done in Super Mario 64.

    2. Re:Nintendo not innovating? by discoalucardx · · Score: 1

      The Dreamcast was the first to have analog shoulder buttons. Otherwise, you're pretty much on the dot.

    3. Re:Nintendo not innovating? by kisrael · · Score: 1

      Some of these weren't truly new, but hadn't been in gaming for a while, like "analog controller" which was on Vectrex and misc. other old systems. (interestingly the N64 controller was a modified version of something that woulda come out for the 3D0 had that stuck around)

      Other things made or reintroduced by Nintendo:
      * shoulder buttons (SNES)
      * buttons arranged in cross pad config (SNES... allowed for good port of Smash TV!)
      * 4 controller ports on the console (no multitap) (N64)

      I think game.com had touchscreen, but it wasn't very sensitive, with very big discreet "button areas". And DC had analog shoulder buttons. But still, Nintendo has done more hardware innovating than nearly anyone. And Mario 64, Mario Party, and Smash Bros all established new genres, for my money.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    4. Re:Nintendo not innovating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      First analog controller (N64)

      False, PC had those years before

      And for those who care, so did PS1. PS1 had dual shock before the N64 came out, it only had the 2 analog sticks and no vibration. N64 came out with rumble, so Sony added rumble to the controller before bringing it to the US.

      First "rumble" feature (N64)

      False, PC had those years before

      First touchscreen (DS) False, this had it years before

      First analog shoulder buttons (Gamecube)

      False, PS2 had those years before

    5. Re:Nintendo not innovating? by Cap'n+Steve · · Score: 1

      I meant innovation among consoles, I realize the PC has had lots of stuff. Thanks for pointing out about the game.com, though. I actually own a Dreamcast, but I didn't think the shoulder buttons were actually analog. Come to think about it, has any game besides Super Monkey Ball actually used the analog shoulder buttons? As for the PS2, I'm going to go out on a limb and say no way. You'd have to be pretty accurate to push those buttons down in various degrees.

    6. Re:Nintendo not innovating? by shadowcabbit · · Score: 1

      Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3 used the analog capabilities of the shoulder buttons when the player was leaning around corners or peeking over obstacles. They were also a pain in the ass because you had no idea how far you were going or how much pressure you needed to apply-- accuracy went straight down the toilet.

      --
      "Why Subscribe?" Good question...
  40. Hmm... by Gothic_Walrus · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Immediately after running a story on how great the PSP is, Slashdot runs a story like this one, one that strongly criticizes Nintendo.

    It's also worth noting that the article about the PSP was submitted by its own author and blatantly ignored the complaints about the system, whereas this article was written in October and ran on IGN, where most of the readers of this section of Slashdot had a chance to see it.

    Am I the only one bothered by this?

    --
    Goo goo g'joob.
    1. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am now, I was bothered when a few weeks back they did the same to PSP (Posting the UMD flying hoax article multiple times) It's like slashdot is having a troll battle of the editors

    2. Re:Hmm... by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Well let's be fair, there's been a number of pro-Nintendo stories as well.

      And most of the high-ranked comments have been very pro-Nintendo, something I've noticed on Slashdot in the past. I don't think one can accurately say that the Slashdot audience or editors hates Nintendo. Rather, that Slashdot readers, of the things they like, they like them a lot, and Nintendo is one of those things. So is Halo 2, and Linux, and Open Source, and Star Wars.

      And Lego!

  41. Re:I for one would like to know where his #s sourc by gmezero · · Score: 1

    Google for what? Just go to Nintendo's website, into their corporate area and pull down their corporate annual reports where they report their sales, etc... to their investors. And since when would selling 10 million pieces of hardwareb be a bad thing?!?! STFU.

  42. lack of innovation by focitrixilous+P · · Score: 1
    lack of innovation and low sales numbers

    Alright, That's not just biased, it's wrong. They came out with the most innovative handheld console ever concieved, Metroid Deathmatch, and all you can do is notice the lack of GTA? Comparing the DS to PSP may be a toss up, but there can be no question the DS is the more original of the two.

    --
    SAILING MISHAP
  43. I am waiting for a story about Nintendo and... by pappy97 · · Score: 1

    broadband.

    Here on /. we periodically see stories about the rise of broadband internet connections in the USA, and we also see stories about how Nintendo is failing.

    I am waiting for a story to combine the two. As people spend their hard earned money each month for a cable/DSL connection, they want to make optimum use of it. That means if they are a console gamer, they want to use a console that has awesome online capability, and Gamecube is definitely not it.

    Nintendo has the chance to rectify this in their next console, but it remains to be seen if they actually will.

  44. Shenmue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Shenmue, how hard you held down the run button controlled how fast you ran. Ryo's chunky jog is rather amusing.