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Price Drops For Mac mini Upgrades
RustNeverSleeps writes "Apple has just lowered prices on certain build-to-order options on the Mac mini. The combination Bluetooth and AirPort Express option has gone down to $99 from $129, 1 GB RAM upgrades have been reduced to $325 from $475 and the price of an upgrade from a 40 GB hard drive to an 80 GB hard drive has been reduced to $50 from $90. Also, the original 4x SuperDrive has been upgraded to an 8x drive for the same price. Interesting that they dropped prices so soon after release. Perhaps Apple actually listened to people complaining about overpriced upgrades."
Or perhaps they were losing upgrade sales to cheaper players in the market? I have always been very annoyed at $200 upgrades from anyone, where a generic alternative is $12.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
Amazing - Apple seems to have finally realized that when you market something high quality and feature rich at low cost, people will flock to your stores. There may be hope yet for mass market acceptance of the Mac platform.
The Mac Mini - Greatly Insane!
A question: can a Mac mouse/keyboard from an old G3 system be used with the Mini?
i do not care about this nerd shit
back to lifting weights while my girlfriend reads this article for me
Look, everyone's going to be excited about this, but let's just say this and get it out of the way:
All this did was correct stuff that was already WAY overpriced to begin with. I'm thrilled, and this pretty much seals up that I'll buy a mini, but I don't think it makes a huge difference to most people, maybe just to those on the fence. If they weren't going to buy one before, they probably won't now just because of these incremental price "normalizations."
Anyone know what happens to people that paid the previously higher price? I recall something like this happening to the powerbook? I could be wrong, but I think mac reimbursed in some way.
Even if you consider the lowering of prices, the fact remains that you could spend $400-$500 to bring the Mac Mini up to a reasonable configuration by today's standards. IMHO, this doesn't go against their business model.
Or perhaps they read Anandtechs's review saying it was positively scandelous to sell the unit with 256MB RAM with such expensive upgrades.
Good review for those who care.
I've already decided that before long I want a Mini and at least an iPod shuffle withing a short period of time.
Improving the prices even more just makes it that much sexier.
I wonder if these price drops are because they've been able to get an idea of the volume of these they'll be selling, and relying on economies of scalre just got even more attractive to them.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The hard drop upgrade was $50 before, and it's still $50 now. The article (and the MacNN story the submitter cribbed it from ) are both wrong.
If you check out this forum thread you can see thatr ead.php?Cat=&Board=UBB37&main=290448&type=thread
http://www.macworld.com/forums/ubbthreads/printth
Crucial already offers a 1 GB Ram upgrade for $227. Much cheaper than the Apple upgrade and you can put it in yourself.
This news has lots of people asking "What about exisitng orders" (they got e-mails notifying them of refunds of the difference), but the real question is why, four days after product availability, did Apple do this?
Possible reasons:
- Sales figures in first tow weeks overwhelming under BTO projections
- Analysts/Fans complained of over priced BTO
- Yet-to-be-released products with similar BTO pricing coming sooner than Apple originally planned
- Margins on BTO items are higher, even at reduced prices, than margins on the original equipment.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
What do you need the PCI slot for? (not retorical)
With the exception of Graphics, I would venture to say all consumer level options usually upgraded via PCI on a PC are either (1) built in (like Bluetooth or Firewire ports) or (2) available via Firewire (like Audio/video input/output devices).
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Hmmm...
For 700 bucks I get a DVD burner, 80 Gig HD and the best OS on the planet.
I would never buy the RAM upgrades form Apple, nor would I do the same from any maker. I buy my RAM from the cheapest source possible, which usually ISN'T the maker. So what are we talking about here, another $125 for a full Gig of RAM now.
$825 for a killer system. That's only 125 to "bring the Mac Mini up to a reasonable configuration".
Now, you may think me a Mac zealot, but in fact, I build and maintain computers from scratch running Linux. I haven't owned an Apple product in about 8 years. I've used them quite a bit in my old job, but they were always "overpriced" for me. That's really no longer an excuse.
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
1. Start by announcing something cheaper than competition or usual
2. Stress out benefits of given product so potential buyers actually think it's good value.
3. Let early buyers get in.
4. For those still undecided, actually improve the deal (i.e more features, ie. superdrive) and/or cut the price
5. Those actually undecided that thought it was already good value now think this is fantastic value.
6. Sell like crazy
I think this technique is call "push-over" or something like that. The key to it is to convince people that even at a premium your product is fantastical value (Apple sure knows a lot ib this field). The more you convince people at step 2, the easier the push-over.
IMHO, APPLE had it all laid out. They knew they could make the fat margins with early adopters and then have the extra publicity announcing this. It keeps the momentum...
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
Apple has quietly lowered the price...
Quiet, until the story was slashdotted.
Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
if someone wanted a bundle including a mouse/kb/monitor, there's a perfectly good (and more powerful) alternative called iMac. (and it's not much more expensive that buying a mini with all the accessories from apple, as you suggested.)
The Apple Store offers price protection for products ub to ten day AFTER SHIPMENT, not ordering. The policy and the phone number to call can be found here. I called last night and they've credited my card.
As far as the superdrive goes, I ordered mine the day it was announced, and it arrived two days before the official release date. It came with an 8X Superdrive.
Screw PCI. I want to be able to use my MCA cards that I bought. Nobody supports them anymore.
/usr/games/fortune
It has been my experience that there are many users out there who simply don't care about having a high-end computer, or, if they do, they don't have any need for it. For example, I've seen people who have spent $3,000 on a high-end G5 tower, dual processor etc., and only ever use Safari and Mail. The Mini should be a perfect computer for these people, even out of the box. Just my $.02.
I received my 1.42/80GB Mac Mini yesterday along with a 1GB Dimm from a 3rd party vendor. Even with the 1GB RAM the performance is still sluggish, kind of reminds me of using a Knoppix Live CD. Firefox is kind of quirky with dragging bookmarks sometimes it hangs when trying to open another instance. Open Office performed better than I had expected after all the X11 bashing.
On the plus side it runs very cool and is very quiet
The 8X drive is only for reading DVD, the write speed for DVD is still 4X.
#!/
UK Apple store upgrades for the Mac Mini:
Bluetooth upgrade + 35.00 UKP
Airport upgrade + 49.00 UKP
Bluetooth AND Airport upgrade + 152.88 UKP
It's because that last price is in metric pounds, while the others are in imperial pounds.
Also due to the clever way in which OS X is designed, you can set up a high speed network utilising your firewire, bluetooth, wifi and ethernet ports all simultaneously, with the file being threaded across the available connections.
Apple carefully selects the components and controls the drivers that are supported on their OS. That is why they don't encourage DIY configurations.
The key for Apple is a smooth experience with their Hardware/OS integration. If at the $499 entry price point you are still complaining the odds are you are never going to buy a Mac. So understandably they won't really care much about options and favor overall user experience.
"In God we trust, all others must bring data" - W. Edwards Deming
I spent the weekend researching the 20" iMac G5 the GF is getting. In the process of trying to figure out what/when the new iLife 05 and iWork software would be bundled with it (at no $19.95 handling fee. Anybody know?)
I got caught up in the Mac Mini frenzy. To me $499 is impluse buy pricing. I figured it was worth it to let me have my first Mac to enjoy and learn on. I had been holding out for the next gen PowerBook. I went to the Apple Store and began an order.
$100 more for the SuperDrive and faster CPU. I'll buy my own RAM and deal with a putty knife to put it in. Yeah, I need Wi-Fi and Bluetooth because you can't add that afterwards. Applecare? Good idea. Now it was $800, even with my educational discount. It was no longer in impulse buy range. I left the site.
You think maybe that Apple saw that happening again and again and took this action to keep the buyer there until they completed the order?
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
What can you actually do with the Mini Bluetooth connection?
I suspect this is pretty much intended for keyboards, mice, cell phones, PDAs, and headphones. I know the OS supports file transfer via bluetooth for both LDAP info and general files, and has some nice security options. Theoretically, it could be used for all sorts of low-bandwidth wireless applications.
where's the truly hifi Bluetooth stereo headset?
Did you just say, "hi-fi???" Can you even buy low tolerance components these days? I mean what is the worst tolerance on a commodity resistor these days?
Perhaps Apple actually listened to people complaining about overpriced upgrades.
Or they misjudged market demand for upgraded units and have warehouses full of units that aren't selling while the bottom end is oversold.
-Adam
Could be that the pre-orders for the Mini mac are exceeding expectations.
That means that Apple can put more parts in the pipeline, and get better prices.
It may also be that Apple is starting to look at the mini-Mac as a market grown opportunity, more than a cash opportunity. It may make more sense to drop the prices closer to cost, if it means selling more boxes.
According to this (second paragraph), nothing's supposed to be placed on top of the box. Pressure on the top may prevent a CD or DVD from being ejected.
You can, however, use the Mac mini on its side.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
-ECC is "error correction code" aka parity.
-Registered/buffered makes for slightly slower RAM (though at pc2700, you could use higher-end circuitry) by storing memory fetches in latched registers/buffers to ensure that no timing weirdness occurrs (ie, reading a byte when only 4 of the bits have been set)
-the extra bits (72 vs 64) are used for the parity bits for ECC.
So to recap, what apple is installing is "better" in terms of stability, and if they use faster-rated RAM (say, PC3000) to build it, the speed lost to ECC and buffering will be negligible compared to normal PC2700. Theres a good chance they used normal PC2700 with buffering and ecc, which would make it slower than PC2700 without.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Hell, take out the dishwasher and you could park an IBM AS/400 under the counter. Why settle for a Mac Mini when you could be running an enterprise class server, right in your kitchen?
You could even augment this by placing an external disk array cabinet in place of the refrigerator.
Unknown host pong.
I called yesterday after work and they handled it very professionally...I didn't even have to get upset. They credited me the $31.20 difference for the Airport/BT combo and said that no mini's actually shipped with the 4x Superdrives...they just corrected the description on the webpage. I'm not able to verify this since I'm away on business for the week, but I'll take his word for it for the time being. Can anyone with a mini verify the speed of the Superdrive?
This is part of the reason people love Apple so much, they really do take care of their customers.
So what's the total for a tricked out mini?
I was able to configure one up to a surprising $40,553!
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
An eMac is $800 with a 17" CRT built in.
A Mac mini has no monitor, or keyboard or mouse and only costs $500 for roughly the same hardware. The pacakging is also a lot smaller and simpler.
Apple could still be making decent margins off this I think. And as others have noted if there are many accessory sales margins are even better.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
IMHO Apple would win some more "do it yourself" people if they offered upgrades and parts. That's because the Mini is not intended for the "do it yourself" kind of people. We know YOU and the rest of the Slashdotters can build a beowlf cluster from scrap parts of a Commodore64 for less than $99.
I build and maintain computers from scratch
Wow, you must be crazy smart, I hear CPU's are real hard to make from scratch.
Just messin.. $825 is a pretty good deal for a mac tho. If I had the extra cash, I think I'd be all over it. Where did you find a gig ram for $125? Best mini stuff i could find was here.
Boxing Equipment Reviews
For tboth configs of the mac mini in the US apple store, the prices of the airport card and BT card are: BT $50, Airport $79, combo $99.
On the UK store for the 1.2ghz the prices are: BT 35.00 UKP, AP 49.00 UKP, and combo 152.88 UKP.
However, the prices for the upgrades on the 1.4 ghz are: BT 35.00 UKP, AP 49.00 UKP, and combo 69.99 UKP.
I think there is a possible typo on the store or something. the 152 UKP price would seem reasonable for the combo BT/APExtreme and an AP Express bundled in, but not for the combo card itself.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
Yeah, your average Dell box could crush a Mini totally. This is America, bigger is better dammit!
For 700 bucks I get a DVD burner, 80 Gig HD and the best OS on the planet.
Ah, so you did exactly what I did - bought a nice Athlon system and installed Linux. Good choice!
This post is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
RAM is one thing that I don't scrimp on. High quality RAM made by reputable companies is very important. The last thing you want it to have to troubleshoot problems caused by bad RAM.
Do you not read well, or are you a troll?
Go read that first link you supplied us. They are *targetted* by the bastards at Gator, who add their own ads to apple.com pages. It is the reverse which is scorn-worthy.
Now go read your second link, which gives no real information at all. Go to ThinkSecret, read the full blurbs elsewhere on powerpage.org.
Now what do you think Apple is trying to accomplish?
Jobs is sick and tired of leaking assholes in R&D stealing all his fire every year by providing specifications to "journalists". He's finally gotten pissed off enough about it that Apple is now going to make damn sure they find who did it, and then fire their asses. If the press and your competitors were getting advance warning of your unreleased products, complete with specs and price, you'd be pissed too.
.sig: Now legally binding!
On the Apple forums, several people have described random kernel panics and general operating unpleasantness after going with cheap RAM.
The only place I would get Mac RAM from would be Crucial.com, and they're more or less the price of the Apple RAM, though the 1GB is a hundred less. Crucial is a division of Micron and thoroughly tests their RAM.
The problem is that some people report issues with using PC2700 RAM in the mini, some report overheating (you need quality RAM because of that cramped airflow in the casing), and so on.
Make sure you people manually upgrading your minis get high-quality RAM that is up to spec!
Did you read the page? Do you understand what the hell is going on there?
Scroll down to the targeted host apple.com and click on it (link provided for you).
Now read the WHOLE PAGE. Those are advertisers that Gator pops up WHEN YOU ARE BROWSING APPLE.COM.
Key distinction there. It's not that APPLE is advertising. It's that gator is DISPLAYING OTHER ADS when you are on Apple.com.
Living proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
As for the suing thing, Apple is actually suing to find out who the employees are that are leaking details. I'm not that happy about them suing they guy but I have to say that whoever leaked these details has probably crossed the line because they have seriously broken a contract a NDA they signed. Previous rumors have been close but this last wave was just too exacting in detail.
If you want to be angry at someone how about wondering why these employees do not come forward and give themselves up instead of letting this kid twist in the wind.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Why can't the better (from an engineering point of view) instruction set architecture (i.e. PowerPC) win in the desktop market?"
Because the desktop market would not be best served by having Apple take the lead. Half of everything Apple does would be considered "anticompetitive" if they were in Microsoft's position. And talk about vendor lock-in! Apple doesn't even allow clones any more.
Apple would need to make a *lot* of changes to become dominant, and would need to take some big chances.
Yeah, but Apple installs for you. That's probably worth the extra $100 to many people. For me I'll install my own when my mini arrives.
Oh, and don't buy registered ECC, Mac mini won't support it. It needs to be unbuffered and unregistered memory for the Mac mini. You can use PC 3200 (DDR 400) but it runs at the slower speed.
You get a lot more computer - about 5x larger!
You get a lot more fan noise - try a new HP. WHOOOOOOOSH!
You get a lot more spyware helping you browse. Apple doesn't help you browse. What the hell is up with that!
You get a lot more product activation. Without product activation, all your products would just lie dormant!
You get more wait time for a major OS update. Waiting gives you time to read and makes you smarter!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Probably -1 Redundant by now, but here:
Orders that haven't shipped yet automatically get the current price.echo 33676832766569823265328479713269.8639857989Pq | dc
Um, hate to break it to you, but you'd be paying that same $80 from Crucial. You can't just add another 256MB DIMM; there's only one slot. You'll have to buy a 512MB and take out the DIMM that's already there.
What do you need the PCI slot for?
TV Tuner. I know you can get a USB tuner, but that kind of defeats the whole form factor thing.
I'm not complaining though - this is going to be one really sweet DVD/DivX/MP3 player machine. I picked up a Remote Wonder control today, and now I can comfortably select and play movies from the couch.
If Apple were to release a version of the mini with 6-channel sound, a TV tuner, PVR software, and a good looking remote Windows Media Center wouldn't stand a chance. It would be the iPod of the living room.
READY.
#
So to recap, what apple is installing is "better" in terms of stability, and if they use faster-rated RAM (say, PC3000) to build it, the speed lost to ECC and buffering will be negligible compared to normal PC2700.
It doesn't work that way. SDRAM is synchronous memory and the chipset will attempt to run the memory at the speed of the bus. Faster memory will not make the bus go any faster than the chipset's rated speed.
For example, I had a KT333 chipset which had a 333 mhz bus speed. It used PC2700 memory, which is 333 mhz memory. I had a power surge and my MB died. So I replaced it with a KT266 motherboard, which only has a 266 mhz bus speed (PC2100 speed). I still used my old PC2700 memory, but the memory now operates at the bus speed, which is 266 mhz. It is not any faster than if I just had PC2100 memory in it, since it can only run as fast as the chipset can drive it.
The Mac mini's chipset works at 333 mhz, which is PC2700 speed. Putting in PC3000 or faster won't make the memory speed be any faster- it'll always run at 333 mhz.
This has been covered countless times before. The Mac is actually a very good deal if you equip a PC with comparable software.
I've never owned a Mac, but I would buy this if I didn't already have more computers than I need.
I think I'll wait a few weeks, the price will drop more, and then I won't have to bother with the putty knives!
Everybody -- keep posting articles about hacking the Mac Mini so the price will drop quicker!
Ok, so I too was curious about the mac mini and I would love to have one at home to play with. So I priced one out. Below is the one I priced out and a comparable Dell system. Now the Dell does have a keyboard and mouse, but I tried to get them as close as possible. They also both have 1 year warranties and free shipping. It should also be said that dell is currently running a 15% off special that ends today.
Mac mini
512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
4x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
56K v.92 Modem
Mac OS X - U.S. English
1.42GHz PowerPC G4
Subtotal $774.00
Dell Dimension 4700
* Pentium® 4 Processor 520 with HT Technology (2.80GHz, 800 FSB)
* 512MB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (2x256M)
* 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
* Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 48x CD-RW Drive
* Windows XP Home
* 56k Modem
Subtotal $685.00
So my big question, besides the obvious price drop from normal Apple systems and putting aside the whole Mac vs. x86 platform, is where is the real price savings for a new user buying a new home computer? Granted the 15% off is a big factor, but Dell runs similar specials all the time.
I assume by crush you mean "To press between opposing bodies so as to break or injure." [dictionary.com]?
SPAM
since last Thursday and it has so far exceeeded my expectations in every way. I contacted Apple last night and they are refunding the price difference to reflect the price drops, I cannot complain. Of course if those prices would have been lower initially I might have ordered more upgrades, but overall I can say this has been an excellent experience with Apple again.
If I want to buy a Mac Mini in Belgium, the entry price is 519 euro, as opposed to 499 in the US. At the current conversion rate (taken from XE.net/ucc), the "correct" EU price should be 381.68 eur.
Even tough Apple is an American company, they're not going to convince me this price is because the stuff has to come from the US of A. And even then, you'd think that Apple, being a global company, should be able to get some volume discounts from their transport service.
This goes for all of their products. If I want to buy a Powerbook, it's actually cheaper to take a plane to New York, buy it at the NY Apple store (if there is one, I suppose there is), put it in my bag and fly back to the Old Continent than to buy it here, be it from a store or from the Apple website.
Come to think of it, anyone from Belgium or Holland who wants to buy some mac stuff? I'll go to NY, pick it up and pass the discount on to you. The more, the merrier.
(yes, I know I won't be able to walk trough the airport with thousands of $ worth of stuff without being robbed (be it by criminals or by the import tax officers), and I know this doesn't include cab rides.. but you get the picture)
Ha ha, I'm making a stupid pun!
I know these comments contain the inevitable PC-to-Mac price comparisons, but are they equivalent? One fellow found out that the RAM price difference is only about $29 (installed) if the identical type of memory is selected.
So my question is this: How about if we compare a Mac Mini to a mini-ITX system? Now we're in about the same price range, with similar limitations on upgrades. Plus it's harder (impossible?) to get a suitably powerful processor in a mITX PC.
Anandtech compared the Mini with a full-size Dell - they'd have to, there's no mini-ITX Dell systems that I'm aware of. I hope there's someone else here who thinks that's just stupid: "Hey guys, guess what? I just did a price comparison between a dual-Opteron system and a high-end laptop. The Opteron box is so much better for the price. Now excuse me while I place it in my laptop bag and take it on a business trip!"
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
Apple says the warranty is only void if you damage any parts of the mini in the upgrade process. It would be illegal for them to void your warranty just because you upgraded your system. Think of installing a new oil filter in a car.
btw: somewhat wrong. apple keyboard costs 29.00 [-student discount 26.00] and includes the very neccesary usb hub. bluetooth not actually required get your facts straight.
Buy a mounse at office depot for $10 (or $14 NOW, I guess here,
or your local computer retailer. Compare to base-line dell offering with intel extreme graphics, intel celeron CPU, etc.
mac mini still plays ut2005 without lag, only slightly jumpy running @ 800x600 32bit etc, etc.
This competes with any base-lline x86 system very well.
I like that I can pick My display or buy the apple dvi to rca connector and use my TV. you won't see that sort of a thing on a pc either, nor at that form factor sie, quality, etc.
Can I be a Luddite too?
The Mac Mini specs also say that "Memory, AirPort Extreme and internal Bluetooth upgrades must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider; fees may apply.". In light of the assurances in the article this may not be true for memory but it certainly is for the other components.
Okay, fed up with everyone saying "1GB of RAM is sooooo expensive". Yes, it is. Bad Apple.
However, why do you want 1GB of RAM? I use a PowerBook with a 1.5Ghz CPU and 512MB as my desktop replacement at work, and have no problems. I've currently got Thunderbird, Adium (IM), iTunes, Firefox, Azureus and X11 open, with no noticable slowdown or disk swapping.
Unless you're going to be doing something you know is memory intensive (Photoshop), you probably won't use anything more than 512MB. If you're that worried, and live anywhere near an Apple store, see if you can try one of these out, open half a dozen applications and see what performance you get.
The Bluetooth support on the Mac mini is completely programmable. As such, you can do anything with it that Bluetooth supports.
Some of the Bluetooth support that is built into OS X includes:
I have Bluetooth enabled on my PowerBook, and use it with a Bluetooth mouse and my Sony Ericsson T610 cell phone. The mouse works like any other wirelsss mouse (but doesn't need a dongle), and I have the phone set-up for file transfer with the PowerBook, GPRS internet connectivity for instant, on-the-road Internet connectivity, sending and receiving SMS messages from the PowerBook, dialling phone numbers, and synchronization of my address book and calendar between the phone and the PowerBook/.Mac. I haven't installed Sailing Clicker just yet (which allows you to use your bluetooth-enabled cell phone as a remote control for the Mac), but have it sitting in my Downloads directory waiting for some free time to play with it.
In short, there is a lot of cool stuff you can do with Bluetooth -- if you have suitable Bluetooth-enabled devices.
Yaz.
I've used Macs with 256MB that ran fine too. 5 years ago. Not now, no way.
You're granting that you can't run anything on these things (like photoshop), then say "why would you want to?" Well, why not? You should be able to. The guts of the Mac mini is pretty similar to a powerbook (comparable chip, graphics, etc). I have 512MB in my powerbook, and THAT is often too little.
As to the people saying you need 1GB, what for? I've got a flatmate that does graphical work on a PowerMac with 512MB, and it's fine for everything except Photoshop
Answered your own question, photoshop for one. Also games, and people who multitask heavily (ie, me) or work with memory intensive apps for work (also me).
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
256[MB] to 512[MB] upgrade (both DDR333 SDRAM on single stick):
- Mac Mini: $75
- Power Book: $200
This isn't a fair comparison as the laptop uses SO-DIMMS, which are more expensive. I should also point out that people who get Apple memory upgrades have money to burn, especially with a powerbook, since the memory is user installable.
Don't count your messages before they ACK.
Wow, you must be crazy smart, I hear CPU's are real hard to make from scratch.
You don't know the half of it! One time I was painstakingly hand-soldering a 68040, when I accidentally dropped my pince-nez. Well, when I got back to my work, I had inadvertently given the chip a half turn, and before I knew it I connected pin 25965 to 52692! That took me even longer to figure out than the time I baked the hard drive platters a little too long.
Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.
For me, this is a killer system. It's not weak, and I know what I mean by a killer system.
Yes, this is a killer system.
It's not a quad processor 4 GIGA-PLEX-ZOWIE-BAM with optional tinted windows and a 1GIG 32x AGP-ultra mega 6D graphics card...but show me a $825 system that is.
Being $825 and having the features that it does in itself makes it a "killer system". SO STFU.
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
Wherever you can find an 80GB 2.5" (a.k.a. "laptop") drive for $40, let me know. I've got an older PowerBook that could use a hard drive upgrade, and the cheapest I've seen an 80GB drive is $115. (Even assuming Apple gets a 50% discount for volume, that's still $57.50)
And as 40GB drives are $64, paying only $50 for the upgrade sounds like a good deal to me. (Only $1 'tax on the stup[id and gullible'.)
As for memory? Yeah, Apple has always charged WAAAAY too much for memory. (I even see 1GB DIMMs for $85 in places.)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
For completeness, you need to add iLife '05 for the Mac. That retails around $79, but I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a suite for a similar price in the PC world.
You also forgot to configure the DVD/CD drive option the same on the Dell. When you do, it adds $35.
What's still different in the technical details? The mini includes Firewire and a real video card. You need to add $110 to the Dell to get those. Now you're up to $685 + $35 + $110 = $830.
The only technical details the Dell has now over the mini is that the (minimum optional) video card is better (I think) than the 9200 in the mini and that the 4700 has 6 USB ports on it instead of 2, if you care to have that many.
Is the mini a good buy? Uh, well, technically, yes. Unless you're going to quibble about raw processor performance.
Look. At this level of machine, it's a new game. Make your choice based on what you want. Price is not an issue anymore. Instead, sit down and ask yourself whether you want to try:
* A new user experience. Yes, there will be a learning curve if you've never used one. There's no Start button. There's one menu bar. It will take you a few days. Big deal, likely.
* A new level of security--whether through design or obscurity, your choice. This will save you a few days. Each month. No joke.
* Lower number, but higher average quality (typically) app selection. What do you use? What can't you live without? A lot of good stuff is ported. Some good stuff is not. There are sometimes great alternatives, sometimes not.
Apple's giving those at this price point the chance to make a personal selection that has very little to do with financials. Enjoy making it.
A posting on MacWorld's forum on the Mini has an entry from someone who took their's apart and discovered a 5400 rpm drive instead of the 4200 rpm part. (not to say all of them come this way)
I declare shenanigans.
I ran my PB17 for about 4 months (512mb, 4200? rpm HD, 1.33 ghz cpu) and it was plenty fast doing real world work (daily on-site video production for a public school system).
Is this the new angle of attack for the Mac-haters?
Actually, I suspect if you dropped a Dell tower on a Mac mini, you'd probably end up with some small scratches on the mini, and a big dent in the bottom of the Dell. The mini is constructed of fairly thick aluminum and polycarbonate (the stuff that makes bullet-proof glass bullet-proof). The Dell is constructed of sheet metal and rather cheap plastic.
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Kensington has a nice deal on a keyboard and mouse for the new Mac mini. The mouse is a two-button scroll-wheel deal.
Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.
"Jobs is sick and tired of leaking assholes..."
Then he should quit consuming food that contains Olean.
See, this MAC is being marketed to people who already have those things. I assume you have a computer? If your monitor is DVI or VGA compatible, it will work! Hell, you can even hook it up to a TV with the optional S video adapter! Your keyboard and mouse must be of the USB variety, but most are these days, and if you can't find them for cheap, you're not trying very hard. Try a swap meet or a flea market (or Ebay) If you don't mind second hand. Or just get an Emac or an Imac. As the Pretenders sang, Stop your sobbin'
Does the Mac Mini really come with a slow 2.5" laptop hard drive?
Yes, although some buyers are reporting that their drives are 5400rpm (compared to the 4200rpm of most laptop drives).
f it does come with a slow hard drive, could someone stick there own 3.5" 7,200RPM hard drive in place of it?
Almost certainly not due to space limitations. There are 7200rpm 2.5" drives which you could probably use, but in most cases it will be more convenient to use Firewire external drives.
If you can put your own standard hard drive in, does the Mac Mini come with install disks or would you have to go out and buy a new copy of Mac OS X?
They have real OS X install CDs.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
You may not get "faster CPU" or something of the sort, but you do get a great OS, tiny case made of adonized aluminium, a practically silent computer, great software-bundle and the like. Staring at just few specs (CPU-speed etc.) is pretty short-sighted IMO.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
If anyone is considering buying this machine to try to compile a Linux kernel tree (or any application/os that size) on it regularly, I think you need to rethink the purchase. Same goes for heavy video editing.
It's a budget, CONSUMER, box, it's not even the 'pro' consumer model (the iMac). The point of the parent was that perhaps 4% of the computing populace would even notice 1GB of RAM in their machine (as opposed to 512MB), which makes all the kvetching about the price of 1GB on Slashdot seem a little specious.
After seeing this I called the 1800 number and got a rebate. It was the easiest thing I have ever done with a computer company. The Apple Store offers price protection for products ub to ten day AFTER SHIPMENT, not ordering. The policy and the phone number to call can be found here [apple.com]. I called last night and they've credited my card. PRICES The Apple Store endeavors to offer you competitive prices on current Apple products and selected Sale and Apple Certified Reconditioned products. Your total order price will include the price of the product (on the day of shipping) plus any applicable sales tax and shipping charges. Apple reserves the right to change prices for products displayed at the Apple Store at any time. Should Apple reduce its price on any shipped product within 10 calendar days of shipment, you may contact Apple Sales Support at 1-800-676-2775 to request a refund or credit of the difference between the price you were charged and the current selling price. To receive the refund or credit you must contact Apple within 14 business days of shipment. http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespoli cies.html#Apple%20Prices
Stranded.org
> Apple doesn't even allow clones any more.
No, there just haven't been any for several years.
Apple did *not* refuse to renew the cloning licenses. They *did* insist on larger fees on upper end machines, and the cloners refused.
The more expensive machines with fatter margins for apple had always paid the bulk of the R&D costs. The cloners weren't paying any of that under the old deal.
hawk
IIRC from the disections I have seen, the mini only has 1 slot for ram, so you'll need to snag an 1G stick and then you'll need to remove the 256M stick thats already in there. That is a good deal thought.
-kaplanfx
Visualize Whirled Peas
Price for iLife 05 on Dell Dimension 4700....uh.. there is no price for iLife 05 on theDell Dimension 4700.
No, instead you get years of heartache with driver issues with your camera and a corn-you-fscking-copia of bastard-ass photo organization applications that do fsck-all for you actually organizing, printing, and making books from your pictures.
Why do you think that they finally came out with printers with CF cards and fscking monitors on them? I'm sure easy to use software on windows was the reason!
I'm so sick of this debate, i'm not even going to go into trying to use Pinnicle's sucky DVD-put-together software. That has to be the most grabtastic pile of poo i've ever used.
Every time i hear this Cheaper Dell thing.. i aske people if they had to buy two cars - and one was twice as expenive as the other, but the cheaper one meant you needed to run your own cables to the throttle and brake lines and steering box, and they you had to drive-by-wire with bicycle handbrakes - would the car that was 1/2 as much still be worth anything?
btw: did i mention spyware, adware, viruses and trying to setup wireless networks without a CCIE on Windows vs. the more expensive Mac mini?
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Now, the thing that suprises me most, is that the mini ITX crowd don't all jump up here and defend the Mac Mini...
You don't have a small form factor, and I hardly doubt that it's quiet. For some people, those are important design considerations. Now if you spec out a mini ITX box (say with a VIA Eden chipset, or whatever they are up to now-a-days...), it would be more relevant.
That's not even remotely the same computer. It's HUUUUUUGE!
... I've not decided. But your comparison sucks. :)
Try making a mini ITX that can sit in the living room (like a Mac Mini) and is of comparable size, *then* you've got yourself a comparison.
I need a new computer. I've been thinking about what to get, and I can go the cheap, huge, noisy, ugly route (like what you posted), or I can go with an mini ITX or something (the Mac mini is sweet and cheap cheap for what you get, but I want to run Linux -- I'm a fan now!). Also, I'm broke so I may have to live with something similar to what you posted.
I can get what I really want and spend 700-800 or so bucks, or the cheap route and spend only a couple hundred
While I generally do agree with your comment, you should note that OSX can be very comparable to Linux if you set it up that way, seeing as how the OS has a Unix core, has a terminal app, an X11 server, a BASH shell, and a number of other open-source tools and apps that are very common to the your average *nix user. But, as you stated, OSX can be damned pretty OS that doesn't require a lot of mucking around by the end user, but the options are there.
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
You're right, the one I posted is nowhere near as pretty as the mini nor would it be as quiet. I'll give you that. :)
However, price and performance wise, I still have to go with the junk I posted earlier...and I agree with you there also, the pc I posted was crap but still out performs the mini.
Yes, yes I know its not small and cute and if that's what you're going for all the power to you.
Personally I'm more concerned with what it can do as opposed to what it looks like. But hey, to each thier own!
I reject your reality and substitute my own
i priced a Mac Mini with all the upgrades, it came out to $1222.
i priced this at logic Supply:
Morex 3677 mini-ITX case Silver $85.00
VIA EPIA MII12000 Mini-ITX Motherboard $214.00
Notebook 2.5" Hard Drive 80GB $175.00
Panasonic Slot Loading CD-RW / DVD $99.00
PC2100 / DDR266 memory 1024MB $290.00
Microsoft Windows XP Pro with SP2 $175.00
Netgear WG511 54 Mbps Wireless PCMCIA Card $49.00
Combo Keyboard, Mouse and Speakers $21.00
Sub-Total: $1,108.00
note that the Mac mini has a slightly faster CPU (and i'm willing to bet the G4 will out-perform the Via Eden in most cases). the Mini has a DVD burner as opposed to a DVD-ROM/CD-RW. the Mini has Apple's wireless keyboard.
so, the Mac Mini price is at least competitive with other small form factor computers, if not regular full size computers.
I bought mini w/512 and wifi, $653. Got it last Friday and love it.
Went to the apple site and went thru the order process again out of curiosity. Same price.
I feel better.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
(the Mac mini is sweet and cheap cheap for what you get, but I want to run Linux -- I'm a fan now!
:-p).
There are PowerPC ports of Gentoo, Debian, and a few other Linuxes (Linuxen?
Feel free to purchase that Mini!!!
I'm pretty sure I could drive a truck over the Dell and crush the Dell. That doesn't make a truck a better computer.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Sure, if you're talking full size HDsm but the Mini uses notebook sized drives. Let me know how many 160 GB notebook drives you've come across.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Seriously, aside from upgrading the RAM, what else needs to be upgraded in this computer? I would guess that most people who are buying the Mini have another Mac or a PC or two. I fall into the latter group (my Mini is the first Mac I've ever owned) and find that it's much more effective to use the resources of my PC's (large hard drives for storing huge files, DVD burner for writing movies created with iMovie+iDVD) than to use the mini's. And with the Microsoft Remote Desktop Connector, I can pull up a full Windows XP desktop on my Mac whenever I need it, which is becoming increasingly less and less. (Oh, and using a Firewire cable to network between my PC and my Mini gives me transfer speeds that make the hard drive and not the network connection the bottleneck point!)
I think apple probably thought they had a little time before it became such common knowledge how to open and service a mac mini. Now that the cat is out of the bag, they knew they had less chance of selling the high mark up prices they were offering as many people would do it themselves or have some mac savvy friend install the upgrades. So instead of just not getting any slice of that pie, they lowered the prices to try and hold on to some of that business.
I wouldn't want to run Photoshop with 256MB RAM, but I wouldn't want to run Photoshop on one of these anyway!
:)
Right, because no one ran Photoshop on a machine until a year ago... ???
Photoshop runs great on my 800 MHz G4 Ti PB. I guarantee it will run better on a mini with decent memory, which in most cases is going to be 512MB or greater (my PB has 1GB). The PB surely doesn't run PS as fast as a G5, but you know they didn't exist 2 years ago (and still don't in a portable format). Funny thing is it does run it a heck of a lot faster than my 400 MHz G3 downstairs.
Really, there's only one serious thing a tricked-out mini can't do well and that's high-end 3D gaming (or the like) due to the 9200, which is just a hair too light for my tastes. Just about every thing else you can do in a reasonable amount of time for a $500-$1000 computer. Just get that 512MB stick. At least.
See this. It appears that DDR performance is not affected by CAS. I do remember the PC133 days, though, and CAS did make a difference back then.
Also, running RAM at lower than its rated speed doesn't necessarily ensure stable operation at a lower CAS latency.
SuSE also has a PPC distribution, but I get the impression it is geared more towards IBM's PPC based servers. At any rate, here is some information from them on the subject of Mac support. There are still other PPC distros that you can investigate the compatibility issues on your own.
Depending on what you'd like to do with linux, running it on a Mini may or may not be right for you. If you just want to tinker, and familiarize yourself with the platform, I'd say go for it. Because you've got one hell of an OS installed along side it with OS X. If you plan to try to get lots of different devices to work under linux on PPC, you're probably better off with x86 hardware.
To sum up, do your homework before you open your wallet. Ask yourself honestly what the purpose of running linux is, and what trade offs you might be willing to make if necessary. And finally, don't forget the OS X factor. You absolutely can't run that on the x86. And it's a really, really nice OS that can also give you an excellent unix experience, albeit a somewhat different experience than linux.