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Price Drops For Mac mini Upgrades
RustNeverSleeps writes "Apple has just lowered prices on certain build-to-order options on the Mac mini. The combination Bluetooth and AirPort Express option has gone down to $99 from $129, 1 GB RAM upgrades have been reduced to $325 from $475 and the price of an upgrade from a 40 GB hard drive to an 80 GB hard drive has been reduced to $50 from $90. Also, the original 4x SuperDrive has been upgraded to an 8x drive for the same price. Interesting that they dropped prices so soon after release. Perhaps Apple actually listened to people complaining about overpriced upgrades."
this goes against the apple business model of the last six or seven years: offer a "cheapish" mac and make a thin margin on it. make it a self-contained widget that the avg joe can't muck about in easily and then reap the fat margin on the upgrades.
2 1337 4 u!
Still probably cheaper to buy your extra RAM from crucial...
I guess today is a passable day to die.
Or perhaps they were losing upgrade sales to cheaper players in the market? I have always been very annoyed at $200 upgrades from anyone, where a generic alternative is $12.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
...if your Mini hasn't shipped yet, they give you the new Superdrive. It'd be awesome if it was true for the early adopters, I guess...this is one reason why I always wait a bit to buy one, but that's just me.
Amazing - Apple seems to have finally realized that when you market something high quality and feature rich at low cost, people will flock to your stores. There may be hope yet for mass market acceptance of the Mac platform.
The Mac Mini - Greatly Insane!
A question: can a Mac mouse/keyboard from an old G3 system be used with the Mini?
i do not care about this nerd shit
back to lifting weights while my girlfriend reads this article for me
Look, everyone's going to be excited about this, but let's just say this and get it out of the way:
All this did was correct stuff that was already WAY overpriced to begin with. I'm thrilled, and this pretty much seals up that I'll buy a mini, but I don't think it makes a huge difference to most people, maybe just to those on the fence. If they weren't going to buy one before, they probably won't now just because of these incremental price "normalizations."
Anyone know what happens to people that paid the previously higher price? I recall something like this happening to the powerbook? I could be wrong, but I think mac reimbursed in some way.
I wonder how the early adopter who already bought the latest model for the premium price feel right now. Will Apple offer post-purchase discounts? I feel like the thing was launched 2 weeks ago... I sure would be pissed off if I bought something as soon as its out to see it drop 200$ (arbitrary figure) in price in two weeks....
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Or perhaps they read Anandtechs's review saying it was positively scandelous to sell the unit with 256MB RAM with such expensive upgrades.
Good review for those who care.
cool beans read about it earlier at macworld though
It's possible that due to the shear number of orders and demand for the Mini, Apple can capitalize on it to get better prices from their suppliers and therefore lower costs for them and pass it on to the customer.
I wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
I've already decided that before long I want a Mini and at least an iPod shuffle withing a short period of time.
Improving the prices even more just makes it that much sexier.
I wonder if these price drops are because they've been able to get an idea of the volume of these they'll be selling, and relying on economies of scalre just got even more attractive to them.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
See Apple lissens, only if some other large OS manufacure would to.
The hard drop upgrade was $50 before, and it's still $50 now. The article (and the MacNN story the submitter cribbed it from ) are both wrong.
What can you actually do with the Mini Bluetooth connection? Can you stream music from a notebook to a Mini? Or between Minis? Or is the Mini Bluetooth profile implementation limited only to headphones, or maybe just syncing to a folder on a Mac? If just headphones, where's the truly hifi Bluetooth stereo headset?
--
make install -not war
Like with the Mac Mini itself, the prices are the same in dollars and euros - which considering that the euro is worth 1.3 $ and taking into account the 20% value-added tax, means we are still ripped of by 10%...
Anyway, this sweeten an already sweet deal. I only regret that the upgrade to 512 RAM, a must-have for anyone not buying a Mac Mini solely for email & the web, is still an over-priced 80 . Ah well, I guess I'll install the added RAM myself then.
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This news has lots of people asking "What about exisitng orders" (they got e-mails notifying them of refunds of the difference), but the real question is why, four days after product availability, did Apple do this?
Possible reasons:
- Sales figures in first tow weeks overwhelming under BTO projections
- Analysts/Fans complained of over priced BTO
- Yet-to-be-released products with similar BTO pricing coming sooner than Apple originally planned
- Margins on BTO items are higher, even at reduced prices, than margins on the original equipment.
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Reads fine to me.
from a 40 GB hard drive to an 80 GB hard drive
Standard Drive: 40GB
Upgraded Drive: 80GB
the price... has been reduced to $50 from $90
Old upgrade price: $90
New upgrade price: $50
UK Apple store upgrades for the Mac Mini:
Bluetooth upgrade + 35.00 UKP
Airport upgrade + 49.00 UKP
Bluetooth AND Airport upgrade + 152.88 UKP
WTF?!
was thinking about getting a mini for my kitchen however i want to minimize kitchen top space.
i figured i'd use a 12" LCD and sit it on top of the mini.
Can anyone recommend a bluetooth 1/2 sized keyboard?
I suppose the main reason they left it out, was that it can be easily added with a bluetooth dongle if wanted, otherwise they can't justify the extra expense.
I looked at the danish store today, and the prices have dropped. I'm not sure about the exchange rates, but its cheaper than yesterday.
What do you need the PCI slot for? (not retorical)
With the exception of Graphics, I would venture to say all consumer level options usually upgraded via PCI on a PC are either (1) built in (like Bluetooth or Firewire ports) or (2) available via Firewire (like Audio/video input/output devices).
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
1. Start by announcing something cheaper than competition or usual
2. Stress out benefits of given product so potential buyers actually think it's good value.
3. Let early buyers get in.
4. For those still undecided, actually improve the deal (i.e more features, ie. superdrive) and/or cut the price
5. Those actually undecided that thought it was already good value now think this is fantastic value.
6. Sell like crazy
I think this technique is call "push-over" or something like that. The key to it is to convince people that even at a premium your product is fantastical value (Apple sure knows a lot ib this field). The more you convince people at step 2, the easier the push-over.
IMHO, APPLE had it all laid out. They knew they could make the fat margins with early adopters and then have the extra publicity announcing this. It keeps the momentum...
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
While Apple has hit a home run with a certain niche of their markets (myself included) I wonder if they're going to have to play with their pricing model a bit more and the marketing to get more people to switch to the Mini. I was in the Apple store this weekend, and they had Minis up and running, with the Apple keyboard and mouse and the 20" LCD display. The price card mentioned the monitor in very small type, and said nothing about the keyboard and mouse that I saw. If you thought you were getting a full computer set, you would have had to find out fom the sales staff - possibly after you said you'd buy one - that you needed the keyboard and mouse. And the Apple set is $59. They may have to come down on that item, or be more aggressive about informing the retail store customers that you can use whatever USB keyboard and mouse you want. People looking for the Mini know this. A lot of the potential "switch" market doesn't. The Apple wireless keyboard is even more expensive, and it requires Bluetooth. That may have also had a bit of a hand in them lowering Bluetooth prices.
Apple has quietly lowered the price...
Quiet, until the story was slashdotted.
Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
if someone wanted a bundle including a mouse/kb/monitor, there's a perfectly good (and more powerful) alternative called iMac. (and it's not much more expensive that buying a mini with all the accessories from apple, as you suggested.)
The Apple Store offers price protection for products ub to ten day AFTER SHIPMENT, not ordering. The policy and the phone number to call can be found here. I called last night and they've credited my card.
As far as the superdrive goes, I ordered mine the day it was announced, and it arrived two days before the official release date. It came with an 8X Superdrive.
The people that are buying these are buying it for its all-in-one-ness (sans monitor of course) and small size. I "sold" a Mac Mini to a co-worker when I told her it was $500 and had everything she needed in something the size of a large paperback book. Funny enough, even though she already had a monitor, she upped to an eMac instead.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Screw PCI. I want to be able to use my MCA cards that I bought. Nobody supports them anymore.
/usr/games/fortune
We get mad when Microsoft pays slashdot to put up an ad, yet apple gets their advertisement (and a discussion forum about it) for free.
Not entirely fair, I know, since MS was spreading FUD about Linux, but still....
I received my 1.42/80GB Mac Mini yesterday along with a 1GB Dimm from a 3rd party vendor. Even with the 1GB RAM the performance is still sluggish, kind of reminds me of using a Knoppix Live CD. Firefox is kind of quirky with dragging bookmarks sometimes it hangs when trying to open another instance. Open Office performed better than I had expected after all the X11 bashing.
On the plus side it runs very cool and is very quiet
The 8X drive is only for reading DVD, the write speed for DVD is still 4X.
#!/
Apple carefully selects the components and controls the drivers that are supported on their OS. That is why they don't encourage DIY configurations.
The key for Apple is a smooth experience with their Hardware/OS integration. If at the $499 entry price point you are still complaining the odds are you are never going to buy a Mac. So understandably they won't really care much about options and favor overall user experience.
"In God we trust, all others must bring data" - W. Edwards Deming
I spent the weekend researching the 20" iMac G5 the GF is getting. In the process of trying to figure out what/when the new iLife 05 and iWork software would be bundled with it (at no $19.95 handling fee. Anybody know?)
I got caught up in the Mac Mini frenzy. To me $499 is impluse buy pricing. I figured it was worth it to let me have my first Mac to enjoy and learn on. I had been holding out for the next gen PowerBook. I went to the Apple Store and began an order.
$100 more for the SuperDrive and faster CPU. I'll buy my own RAM and deal with a putty knife to put it in. Yeah, I need Wi-Fi and Bluetooth because you can't add that afterwards. Applecare? Good idea. Now it was $800, even with my educational discount. It was no longer in impulse buy range. I left the site.
You think maybe that Apple saw that happening again and again and took this action to keep the buyer there until they completed the order?
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
Perhaps Apple actually listened to people complaining about overpriced upgrades.
Or they misjudged market demand for upgraded units and have warehouses full of units that aren't selling while the bottom end is oversold.
-Adam
and it won't ship until Feb 17th, or so says the website. What I want to know is which SuperDrive will I get? I ordered the 4x. Should I cancel and them re-order to get the 8x?
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Could be that the pre-orders for the Mini mac are exceeding expectations.
That means that Apple can put more parts in the pipeline, and get better prices.
It may also be that Apple is starting to look at the mini-Mac as a market grown opportunity, more than a cash opportunity. It may make more sense to drop the prices closer to cost, if it means selling more boxes.
And how badly corrections spread when everyone is just copy-and-pasting the "news".
Apple really outdid themselves this time - they've build a whole Macintosh into a 6.5" square case that's just 2" high. And it looks stylish. And it's just $499.
Honestly, I wasn't expecting anything this stylish in an entry-level headless Mac. I can hardly comprehend how they managed to squeeze a Combo drive, a hard drive, a motherboard, and even a tiny speaker into such a compact space. The Mac mini is a lot smaller than those "zero footprint" SCSI drives we used back in the Mac Plus era. Those generally measured 9.6" wide, over 10" deep, and at least 3" high.
What Apple has really invented here is the hand-holdable, transportable desktop computer. It weighs less than three pounds (plus the external power supply), works with any USB mouse or keyboard, and connects to any DVI or VGA display. With a $19 adapter, you can even connect it to most modern TVs using S-video.
In terms of hardware specs, the Mac mini is pretty much an eMac without a display or stereo speakers. It has either a 1.25 GHz or 1.42 GHz G4 processor, a 40 GB or 80 GB hard drive, and normally ships with a Combo drive. (For the first time in Apple history, the SuperDrive option cost only $100 more.)
There's room for Bluetooth and AirPort Express, just like on the eMac. But there are a few less ports - just one FireWire 400 port and two USB 2.0 ones.
Mac miniApple kept the power supply outside of the computer, which keeps the size, weight, and heat down. And they made the mouse and keyboard optional, which helped keep the retail price down.
From a geek's standpoint, built-in video, no extra hard drive bays, and no expansion slots will be disappointing. From a user's standpoint, that will hardly matter. Most computer users never upgrade their video cards, the Mac mini works with external FireWire and USB 2.0 hard drives, and about the only reason you'd want an expansion slot would be to add a TV tuner. That can also be done with USB or FireWire.
All the pieces are in place, and in addition to the hardware, the Mac mini buyer will get the $79 iLife '05 bundle, Apple's new $79 iWork package, Quicken 2005, and a few extra goodies - even a 30 day trial version of Microsoft Office.
The design is nothing less than we should have expected from Apple, and the price point is going to tempt a lot of iPod owners and Windows users who are sick to death of viruses and spyware and adware to consider a Mac.
If they don't have all that, they're going to get Delled. $58 for Apple's mouse and keyboard. $189 for a 17" Mitsubishi monitor. Maybe $29 for an inexpensive set of speakers. Suddenly it's not a whole lot less than the $799 eMac.
On the other hand, it's much more portable than the eMac. You could easily throw the Mac mini in a briefcase or duffle bag or large purse to transport it between home and work or school.
It's also very flexible. You can use it to watch DVDs on any TV with S-video input. And you can probably use it to play games on those TVs as well. Or surf the Web.
The $499 price point is going to get a lot of attention, especially since that doesn't assume any mail-in rebates. It's an out-the-door price, and the Mac mini offers a lot for the money.
The $599 Mac mini runs at 1.42 GHz, a 13% speed boost over the entry-level model, and it comes with an 80 GB hard drive. Is that worth a 20% price premium? Just barely. The speed isn't going to make a big difference, but that 40 GB hard drive can fill up pretty quickly if you work with video.
The other question is whether you can replace the stock 2.5" hard drive with a higher capacity, faster drive without worrying about heat problems. If that is possible, I'd buy my Mac mini with the 40 GB drive and replace it with something big and fast for US$80-100. (Apple charges $50 to put an 80 GB drive in the Mac mini, and it's probably not a 7200 rpm drive. However, there's no option to buy the 1.42 GHz mini with a 40 GB drive.)
It's also nice that Apple doesn't include their keyboard and mouse, becaus
Except that, if you actually click on your link, and look at the detail page for apple.com, it doesn't actually show any advertisements that Apple would plausibly run. Instead, it shows things like Time-Life elvis books and Netflix subscriptions. I think your evidence may be a little wanting.
Dunno about that. Monitors usually have a useful life much longer than the computer they are attached to. And, if you are like a lot of the /. crowd, you spend a LOT of time looking at it. Spend $$ on a good display - it will be a long term investment,and can really affect your eyes, etc.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
I called yesterday after work and they handled it very professionally...I didn't even have to get upset. They credited me the $31.20 difference for the Airport/BT combo and said that no mini's actually shipped with the 4x Superdrives...they just corrected the description on the webpage. I'm not able to verify this since I'm away on business for the week, but I'll take his word for it for the time being. Can anyone with a mini verify the speed of the Superdrive?
This is part of the reason people love Apple so much, they really do take care of their customers.
Umm, did you even go to that link for the spyware/adaware? seriously, look at what the links point to, it is NOT apple.com
s t. asp?host=apple.com
here
http://asp-cyber.law.harvard.edu/gator-sites/te
Ohh and about the 19 year old, they aren't suing him for finding out about the $500 computer, they are suing him so that he reveals who his contacts at apple are who gave him the information on the mac mini so that Apple can scold its own employees.
So what's the total for a tricked out mini?
I was able to configure one up to a surprising $40,553!
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
The prices in the UK store this morning were cheaper than they were yesterday.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
An eMac is $800 with a 17" CRT built in.
A Mac mini has no monitor, or keyboard or mouse and only costs $500 for roughly the same hardware. The pacakging is also a lot smaller and simpler.
Apple could still be making decent margins off this I think. And as others have noted if there are many accessory sales margins are even better.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What does it run if you just bump up the RAM? Just curious because the $499 model with enough added RAM to make things snappy should handle that whole "Surfing the web, sending the email, shopping on ebay" thing that mom and pop want to do without being bombarded by spyware, viruses, and pop-ups. The 32MB video card should in no way impede them.
I just don't think you are the target audience here pOrnking. Niether am I really so I'm not planning on buying one either but for what it is it's a pretty good value. It's affordable enough. It's just not what I (or you apparently) need and want.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
IMHO Apple would win some more "do it yourself" people if they offered upgrades and parts. That's because the Mini is not intended for the "do it yourself" kind of people. We know YOU and the rest of the Slashdotters can build a beowlf cluster from scrap parts of a Commodore64 for less than $99.
How else could you explain the fact that people are actually "complaining about overpriced upgrades." Any serious Mac-Head would never complain about high prices, they consider it a rite of passage to get an "insanely" great product.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
i think apple is not completely insane for offering mini the way it is, it distinguishes itself well from other Mac products.
if apple offered the mini with monitor/kb/mouse bundle, then /. crowd would blast apple for charging the same price for G4 mini with 20" monitor and G5 iMac 20". ;)
Since the whole unit is smaller than most PCI cards, I don't see that happening.
Mod point free since 2001
Why not get a free one!
http://www.freeminimacs.com/?r=14101826
You can still get a gig of ram for these (PC2700, DDR333) for $226 (unbuffered non-ecc) or $299 (registered ecc) from Crucial. Given the price and comparing with their usual upgrade markups, I'm guessing the Apple upgrade is the former, not the latter. Still, compared to the usual markup, this is pretty good.
For tboth configs of the mac mini in the US apple store, the prices of the airport card and BT card are: BT $50, Airport $79, combo $99.
On the UK store for the 1.2ghz the prices are: BT 35.00 UKP, AP 49.00 UKP, and combo 152.88 UKP.
However, the prices for the upgrades on the 1.4 ghz are: BT 35.00 UKP, AP 49.00 UKP, and combo 69.99 UKP.
I think there is a possible typo on the store or something. the 152 UKP price would seem reasonable for the combo BT/APExtreme and an AP Express bundled in, but not for the combo card itself.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
Or more likely (as most companies do), keep it for themselves.
Remember that every time the price drops more people buy the thing.
-mkb
Apple had a refund policy for this last I checked?
These low-end MacMinis with ECC memory would be great lowend workstations. The PowerMac G5 would be great highend workstations.
Maybe, I am waxing "intellectual", but the fact that the x86 with its ugly instruction set and gross addressing modes has dominated the market really disappoints me. Why can't the better (from an engineering point of view) instruction set architecture (i.e. PowerPC) win in the desktop market?
Do you not read well, or are you a troll?
Go read that first link you supplied us. They are *targetted* by the bastards at Gator, who add their own ads to apple.com pages. It is the reverse which is scorn-worthy.
Now go read your second link, which gives no real information at all. Go to ThinkSecret, read the full blurbs elsewhere on powerpage.org.
Now what do you think Apple is trying to accomplish?
Jobs is sick and tired of leaking assholes in R&D stealing all his fire every year by providing specifications to "journalists". He's finally gotten pissed off enough about it that Apple is now going to make damn sure they find who did it, and then fire their asses. If the press and your competitors were getting advance warning of your unreleased products, complete with specs and price, you'd be pissed too.
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Commodity market realities are settling in at Apple. Now that Apple is entering the commodity market, the demand curve for upgrades and services has actually shifted to the left. This is largely because their new customers aren't factoring the value of professional installation service into their decision. Apple is used to dealing with a hyper-loyal, price-insensitive customer base that is happy to pay more for perceived value of Apple services. This is not true of switchers whose last computer was a Compaq or a Dell.
People should not fear what they do not understand; people should fear because they do not understand.
On the Apple forums, several people have described random kernel panics and general operating unpleasantness after going with cheap RAM.
The only place I would get Mac RAM from would be Crucial.com, and they're more or less the price of the Apple RAM, though the 1GB is a hundred less. Crucial is a division of Micron and thoroughly tests their RAM.
The problem is that some people report issues with using PC2700 RAM in the mini, some report overheating (you need quality RAM because of that cramped airflow in the casing), and so on.
Make sure you people manually upgrading your minis get high-quality RAM that is up to spec!
Did you read the page? Do you understand what the hell is going on there?
Scroll down to the targeted host apple.com and click on it (link provided for you).
Now read the WHOLE PAGE. Those are advertisers that Gator pops up WHEN YOU ARE BROWSING APPLE.COM.
Key distinction there. It's not that APPLE is advertising. It's that gator is DISPLAYING OTHER ADS when you are on Apple.com.
Living proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
As for the suing thing, Apple is actually suing to find out who the employees are that are leaking details. I'm not that happy about them suing they guy but I have to say that whoever leaked these details has probably crossed the line because they have seriously broken a contract a NDA they signed. Previous rumors have been close but this last wave was just too exacting in detail.
If you want to be angry at someone how about wondering why these employees do not come forward and give themselves up instead of letting this kid twist in the wind.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Any other company, you'd scream for their heads? Are you crazy? for what? I totally agree with the above 2 replies, and am totally befuddled for your comment of "holding apple accountable for their actions". What actions? Oh, the spyware Gator link you had that was dated a year ago? Even if it was the real Apple, chances strongly are that it was a media buy done by one of their many ad agencies, without their knowledge. Oh, and let's behead apple because they want to find out where sensitive (NDA-CLASS!) leaks are originating from within their company. Finally, as an extremely minor stockholder in Apple, who has tripled his once-3digit value in 1 year...on behalf of the Board of Directors of Apple Computer, We for one, welcome your non-support of us.
ok, the kid is a dumb ass for posting the news. would it kill him to wait for 2 minutes after Steve jobs shows it? lack of self restraint does not mean he is right.
He found out about something that was newsworthy. He reported it. This is freedom of speech at its finest. Doesn't that make him right?
At this time they seem to have messed up the UK pricing completely. While the disc upgrade price looks fine at £30 the WiFI+Bluetooth package has gone up to £152.88 (despite the individual modules remaining unchanged at £49 and £35 respectively) and the price of the 1GB upgrade has risen to a staggering £561.53. These compared to $99 for wireless and $325 for the RAM. Curiously, if you take £99, subtract the VAT and convert to dollars you end up close to $153 and if you take £325, subtract the VAT you end up 10% under $561. I wonder if someone at Apple UK typed the numbers into the wrong side of some currency converter...
If intelligent life is too complex to evolve on its own, who designed God?
I see your point, but I also see Apple's point. The people who want a KBM from them can buy an eMac. ($800, a great price.) Selling them for the Mini would only intrude into the eMac's turf. The eMac's gotten almost no publicity and is forgotten by everyone, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them push it harder in the near future as this "cost revolution" rolls on.
The Mac Mini is not really positioned to be a first computer for anyone. It's positioned to replace the Windows computer you've gotten sick of, meaning you've got the keyboard and monitor already sitting around, or it's positioned to sit on top of your television and become a media box. For those two applications, selling an "official" Mac Mini display devices would only confuse the issue.
I posted the wrong page.Correction.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
Read over at Osnews the other day that since the current chip controller for the fan isn't supported by Linux it defaults the fan to the wide open state, thus instead of whisper quite with Mac OS X the fan is really loud.
LetterRip
Get one from here free as well. I new some one would post it before me
You get a lot more computer - about 5x larger!
You get a lot more fan noise - try a new HP. WHOOOOOOOSH!
You get a lot more spyware helping you browse. Apple doesn't help you browse. What the hell is up with that!
You get a lot more product activation. Without product activation, all your products would just lie dormant!
You get more wait time for a major OS update. Waiting gives you time to read and makes you smarter!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'm a Photoshop user, considering a second-hand dual-G5 (approx 2000 UK pounds with a 23" screen). I'm using a 2.4Ghz Intel box with 1Gb RAM. Would a 1.42 mini with 1Gb RAM be in the same neck of the woods as far as filtering/sharpening work is concerned?
Either you have serious reading comprehension problems or you are trying to be funny and I simply don't get it. Thanks for trying though.
Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
I most definitely gonna buy one of those till summer. Pity that I can't quite afford it right now :( I try to keep my expectations on the lower side though. So far I have not seen anything that I would be happy with for home computer - Windows sucks ass (and _severely_ lacks good software these days, as funny as it sounds) and Linux is not for my desktop too (should I hide right now?). Yep - Linux OTOH makes a good server and Windows makes a good... uhm, waste of money? I never owned a Mac and hopefully it is close to what I'm looking for. I don't care much whether it's ultra tiny or it can render Toy Story. I just want to have something usable and fun to play with. Is it easy to program for these days?
What do you need the PCI slot for?
TV Tuner. I know you can get a USB tuner, but that kind of defeats the whole form factor thing.
I'm not complaining though - this is going to be one really sweet DVD/DivX/MP3 player machine. I picked up a Remote Wonder control today, and now I can comfortably select and play movies from the couch.
If Apple were to release a version of the mini with 6-channel sound, a TV tuner, PVR software, and a good looking remote Windows Media Center wouldn't stand a chance. It would be the iPod of the living room.
READY.
#
So to recap, what apple is installing is "better" in terms of stability, and if they use faster-rated RAM (say, PC3000) to build it, the speed lost to ECC and buffering will be negligible compared to normal PC2700.
It doesn't work that way. SDRAM is synchronous memory and the chipset will attempt to run the memory at the speed of the bus. Faster memory will not make the bus go any faster than the chipset's rated speed.
For example, I had a KT333 chipset which had a 333 mhz bus speed. It used PC2700 memory, which is 333 mhz memory. I had a power surge and my MB died. So I replaced it with a KT266 motherboard, which only has a 266 mhz bus speed (PC2100 speed). I still used my old PC2700 memory, but the memory now operates at the bus speed, which is 266 mhz. It is not any faster than if I just had PC2100 memory in it, since it can only run as fast as the chipset can drive it.
The Mac mini's chipset works at 333 mhz, which is PC2700 speed. Putting in PC3000 or faster won't make the memory speed be any faster- it'll always run at 333 mhz.
This is a huge slap in the face to future buyers of other mac products, particularly PowerBooks. I have been looking to upgrade my PowerBook for a little while, but when they are charge powerbook buyers more than twice that as mac mini buyers for essencially the same upgrades I just get alittle pissed off.
256k to 512k upgrade (both DDR333 SDRAM on single stick):
- Mac Mini: $75
- Power Book: $200
40 to 80 gig hard drive:
- Mac Mini: $50
60 to 80 gig hard drive:
- Power Book: $125
Being a Mac owner for a while now, I will just say they better do something for their higher end buyers or they may loose out on that market.
I don't believe they have a lot of inventory, BTO means just what it says. Do you think Dell has every combination of possible configurations you could have laying about in huge piles?
As proof BTO usually delays projected shipping a bit beyond what you have with a stock order.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This has been covered countless times before. The Mac is actually a very good deal if you equip a PC with comparable software.
I've never owned a Mac, but I would buy this if I didn't already have more computers than I need.
I think I'll wait a few weeks, the price will drop more, and then I won't have to bother with the putty knives!
Everybody -- keep posting articles about hacking the Mac Mini so the price will drop quicker!
Ok, so I too was curious about the mac mini and I would love to have one at home to play with. So I priced one out. Below is the one I priced out and a comparable Dell system. Now the Dell does have a keyboard and mouse, but I tried to get them as close as possible. They also both have 1 year warranties and free shipping. It should also be said that dell is currently running a 15% off special that ends today.
Mac mini
512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
4x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
56K v.92 Modem
Mac OS X - U.S. English
1.42GHz PowerPC G4
Subtotal $774.00
Dell Dimension 4700
* Pentium® 4 Processor 520 with HT Technology (2.80GHz, 800 FSB)
* 512MB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (2x256M)
* 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
* Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 48x CD-RW Drive
* Windows XP Home
* 56k Modem
Subtotal $685.00
So my big question, besides the obvious price drop from normal Apple systems and putting aside the whole Mac vs. x86 platform, is where is the real price savings for a new user buying a new home computer? Granted the 15% off is a big factor, but Dell runs similar specials all the time.
since last Thursday and it has so far exceeeded my expectations in every way. I contacted Apple last night and they are refunding the price difference to reflect the price drops, I cannot complain. Of course if those prices would have been lower initially I might have ordered more upgrades, but overall I can say this has been an excellent experience with Apple again.
That's pretty good info, if you are thinking about buying a Mac mini for an HTPC then the extra range for the keyboard could be of use.
How did you find out what the built in bluetooth is like on the mini?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If I want to buy a Mac Mini in Belgium, the entry price is 519 euro, as opposed to 499 in the US. At the current conversion rate (taken from XE.net/ucc), the "correct" EU price should be 381.68 eur.
Even tough Apple is an American company, they're not going to convince me this price is because the stuff has to come from the US of A. And even then, you'd think that Apple, being a global company, should be able to get some volume discounts from their transport service.
This goes for all of their products. If I want to buy a Powerbook, it's actually cheaper to take a plane to New York, buy it at the NY Apple store (if there is one, I suppose there is), put it in my bag and fly back to the Old Continent than to buy it here, be it from a store or from the Apple website.
Come to think of it, anyone from Belgium or Holland who wants to buy some mac stuff? I'll go to NY, pick it up and pass the discount on to you. The more, the merrier.
(yes, I know I won't be able to walk trough the airport with thousands of $ worth of stuff without being robbed (be it by criminals or by the import tax officers), and I know this doesn't include cab rides.. but you get the picture)
Considering that as others have noted Apple will refund the difference in price for upgrades and everyone got the faster drives by default, I imagine that most people are feeling pretty happy with Apple right now!
Apple generally has very good customer service policies. I think about the only thing you could really complain about is the VERY short window for returns at the Apple stores (fifteen days).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Ha ha, I'm making a stupid pun!
I know these comments contain the inevitable PC-to-Mac price comparisons, but are they equivalent? One fellow found out that the RAM price difference is only about $29 (installed) if the identical type of memory is selected.
So my question is this: How about if we compare a Mac Mini to a mini-ITX system? Now we're in about the same price range, with similar limitations on upgrades. Plus it's harder (impossible?) to get a suitably powerful processor in a mITX PC.
Anandtech compared the Mini with a full-size Dell - they'd have to, there's no mini-ITX Dell systems that I'm aware of. I hope there's someone else here who thinks that's just stupid: "Hey guys, guess what? I just did a price comparison between a dual-Opteron system and a high-end laptop. The Opteron box is so much better for the price. Now excuse me while I place it in my laptop bag and take it on a business trip!"
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
I don't think he should have waited. But if I were him I would have clouded the details a lot more.
As it was it was really obvious that someone leaked big-time, and Apple wants to find out who - rather badly. If he had obscured the details more perhaps Apple would have let it go.
I do think the kid will win the lawsuit though as he is as much a journalist as anyone.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You may say this is just a pet peeve of mine, but when you say that something has been reduced, at least to me it's more logical to say that it's been reduced from X to Y, instead of saying it's been reduced to Y from X.
Is RustNeverSleeps just not a programmer or are we dealing with a relative of Yoda's here?
not all memory is created equal. Corsair memory has some excellent guides here
First, though, the mini gets no advantage from DDR, because DDR requires 2 chips for full speed, so already 1 bad thing about the mini...
I have no idea of what Apple is sticking in this, but most likely it's CAS 2.5, because that's the most common. I don't believe you get CAS 2.5, because I recall that depends on having too ram chips. Anyhow, in general, you want a low CAS number for better performance.
Something worth considering (or in HDTV. They look very nice, small, and include remote ontrols
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Okay, fed up with everyone saying "1GB of RAM is sooooo expensive". Yes, it is. Bad Apple.
However, why do you want 1GB of RAM? I use a PowerBook with a 1.5Ghz CPU and 512MB as my desktop replacement at work, and have no problems. I've currently got Thunderbird, Adium (IM), iTunes, Firefox, Azureus and X11 open, with no noticable slowdown or disk swapping.
Unless you're going to be doing something you know is memory intensive (Photoshop), you probably won't use anything more than 512MB. If you're that worried, and live anywhere near an Apple store, see if you can try one of these out, open half a dozen applications and see what performance you get.
As others have noted previous buyers get price pretection, and even faster drives without asking.
But that's only the margin part of your argument.
Otherwise I don't think it's impossible this is a marketing ploy, if so then at least they did it in a way that does not really hurt the consumer. In any case it was really effective to get a second wave of buzz going around the Mini.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Upgrading from 256MB to 1GB of RAM =
upgrading $40 to $120.
$120-$40 = $80
$80 + insane tax on the stupid = $475
$80 + huge tax on the stupid = $325
what a bargain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneone
Upgadeing for 40GB to 80GB =
upgrading from $20 to $40
$40-$20= $20
$80 + tax on the stupid = $90
$80 + tax on the stupid and gullible = $50
I've used Macs with 256MB that ran fine too. 5 years ago. Not now, no way.
You're granting that you can't run anything on these things (like photoshop), then say "why would you want to?" Well, why not? You should be able to. The guts of the Mac mini is pretty similar to a powerbook (comparable chip, graphics, etc). I have 512MB in my powerbook, and THAT is often too little.
As to the people saying you need 1GB, what for? I've got a flatmate that does graphical work on a PowerMac with 512MB, and it's fine for everything except Photoshop
Answered your own question, photoshop for one. Also games, and people who multitask heavily (ie, me) or work with memory intensive apps for work (also me).
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
But yesterday I got email from Apple saying they'd reduced the cost of my order to reflect this pricing change. Excellent!
Does anyone know if MacMall would reduce the price of a pending order like that? My guess is, no.
8X DVD writing (rather than 4x) is a pleasant surprise, too.
Thanks, Apple!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Much like a newborn puppy...
"Monitors usually have a useful life much longer than the computer they are attached to." We are not talking about Dells and Gateways here. Most Apple computers last a long time. I have seen lots of perfectly functioning eMacs and iMacs trashed because the monitor was fuzzy or dim.
Crushing my karma one post at a time.
1 Gig RAM is showing up at £561.53 and the combo WiFI and Bluetooth kit is £103.88.
These prices are way out, be careful if you are placing an order!
If you consider the market these are aimed at, the length of time it would take a Windows box to become unuseable due to spyware/crapware, and the cost savings of not having someone "fix" it every 6 months to keep it from "slowing down" it is a better deal.
There are 01 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and me.
For completeness, you need to add iLife '05 for the Mac. That retails around $79, but I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a suite for a similar price in the PC world.
You also forgot to configure the DVD/CD drive option the same on the Dell. When you do, it adds $35.
What's still different in the technical details? The mini includes Firewire and a real video card. You need to add $110 to the Dell to get those. Now you're up to $685 + $35 + $110 = $830.
The only technical details the Dell has now over the mini is that the (minimum optional) video card is better (I think) than the 9200 in the mini and that the 4700 has 6 USB ports on it instead of 2, if you care to have that many.
Is the mini a good buy? Uh, well, technically, yes. Unless you're going to quibble about raw processor performance.
Look. At this level of machine, it's a new game. Make your choice based on what you want. Price is not an issue anymore. Instead, sit down and ask yourself whether you want to try:
* A new user experience. Yes, there will be a learning curve if you've never used one. There's no Start button. There's one menu bar. It will take you a few days. Big deal, likely.
* A new level of security--whether through design or obscurity, your choice. This will save you a few days. Each month. No joke.
* Lower number, but higher average quality (typically) app selection. What do you use? What can't you live without? A lot of good stuff is ported. Some good stuff is not. There are sometimes great alternatives, sometimes not.
Apple's giving those at this price point the chance to make a personal selection that has very little to do with financials. Enjoy making it.
As you might expect, .edu pricing dropped as well. Without any accessories, a maxed-out mini is now only $1,050. Freaking amazing.
My only gripe is that they couldn't find a way to squeak at least a 9600 in there. Sigh...
perhaps I'm the only one, but I thought the sarcasm was quite funny.
Currencies fluctuate. The Dollar is falling against the euro right which should help make things cheaper over there.
Since these probably aren't being made in the US,
The real conversion would be chinese currency -> eruos. China pegs there currency to the dollar thus the euro should buy more, so in some ways you are right.
However:
Companies usually set a price and stick with it.
People would go nuts if the price fluctuated every day with currency values.
European car makers aren't doing so well in the US with current conversion rates (they hedge this but that gets too complex for now). So the companies suck it up and take the loss to keep the price competetive. I'm betting apple isn't as profitable as it wants to be on these minimacs in the US. Its sucking it up to keep a certain price point.
US people have to pay a sales tax of 5% (well it varries state to state) above the cost of the machine.
Which is one of the main reasons that I think blogs suck and why bloggers aren't journalists. Too much unchecked/unverified information.
Yeah, that happens in the real news world, but nowhere as common as the 'blogosphere.'
Find us the price on a tiny dell ITX box or whatever and get back to us.
Apparently this is 'ECC' RAM instead of 'non-ECC' like the $226, and it's also 'Registered' instead of 'Unbuffered,' and '128meg x 72' instead of '128 meg x 64'.
That is the type of memory that servers use.
ECC is error correction code. PC's usually use regular non-ECC, non-parity memory. The chipset of the computer needs to support the special ECC or parity type memory in order to use it.
The "128 meg x 64" vs. "128 megs x 72" tells you the chip configuration that the memory stick uses. The "128meg" part tells you that each stick uses individual chips of 128 MB capacity. On normal PC memory, there are 8 of those individual chips on the stick bringing the total memory to 1024 megs, that's 1 GB. As far as the "64" or "72" part, that's the bit width of the memory stick. PC's use 64 bit sticks and servers use 72 bit sticks. On a PC's memory stick, since each chip is 8 bits, 8 memory chips x 8 bits means a total of 64 bits. Server memory uses an extra parity bit for each byte which brings the total to 9 bits. So a server memory stick has 9 individual chips on it- each chip is 8 bits wide and there are 9 of them- 8 x 9 = 72.
Wow! I have always dreamt of owning a Mac. I have wasted literally, years of my life fiddling with POS generic Intel boxes with MS-Windows issues.
Could my dream be coming true? A Macintosh I can JUSTIFY to myself?
After work, I'm running to the local computer store just like when I was a kid, and checking out one of these new Mini Macs.
http://www.FreeMiniMacs.com/?r=14470252
Not so obvious may be the differences in included warranties. Remember that you get a free 2-year warranty in EU country. That's worth quite a lot, especially for notebooks.
...the Mac Mini wasn't aimed at the entry level Mac user. I've read that Apple is aiming this at iPod owners who might be turned onto owning a Mac but always thought it was too expensive. These people (along with the entry level users) won't be doing extensive photoshopping (if they even know what that is).
What rights? Tradionally journalists (and is everyone with a web page a journalist?) have not revealed their sources, sometimes risking jail, sometimes going to jail.
If they had a right not reveal their sources, why would that happen?
However, I'm not aware of any particular legal right journalists have about not revealing source. Could you point out the actual source of this "right", where it is legally defined?
I know we don't have a firm release date for Tiger, but I think it's supposed to be out before June or so. Does anyone know what the upgrade policy will be for Mac Minis? That is, if I buy a Mini now, will I have to fork out another $50 or $100 when Tiger ships? (in which case, I'll just wait...)
The reason you need a lot of RAM is because its the cheapest way to make your system faster. OSX uses unused physical memory for disk cache, which helps make your system snappy.
It also cuts down on the amount of CPU needed, as stuff can be computed and stored in memory so it doesn't need to be computed again. This cuts down the time you wait for the computed result, which is good for all computers. It's also of particular use to notebooks like yours, as hitting RAM instead of CPU saves battery life.
With that said, it is indeed expensive. I'd probably buy the gig from crucial.com and install myself...
I wonder about Dell purchasers who check back a couple hours later after placing an order, only to find they have played the Dell Pricing Roulette Wheel. Maybe the price is lower, maybe higher.
At least, I bet Apple won't raise their prices.
"Jobs is sick and tired of leaking assholes..."
Then he should quit consuming food that contains Olean.
Does the Mac Mini really come with a slow 2.5" laptop hard drive? This has been the only thing that has made me leery of a purchase.
If it does come with a slow hard drive, could someone stick there own 3.5" 7,200RPM hard drive in place of it?
If you can put your own standard hard drive in, does the Mac Mini come with install disks or would you have to go out and buy a new copy of Mac OS X?
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
That's not totally true, you can generally run underclocked RAM at a higher access time(the time the computer waits for the RAM to set down to a state).
You're talking about its latency, not its frequency. We're talking about frequency here (using PC2700 memory vs PC3000 memory in the Mini).
The original poster didn't state anything about latency, he specified the stick by its frequency. He said that by using a PC3000 chip in the Mini, its memory speed would be faster. That is false.
What you are talking about is the chip's latency, and the latency does not depend on its frequency. I'm sure you've seen chips marketed as "PC2700 CL 2.5", or "PC2700 CL 3" on Crucial's website before. They both run at the same clock speed but the latency is different, the chip with the latency of 2.5 will be faster.
If a user buys just any PC3000 stick and puts it in his Mini thinking it will be faster than a good PC2700 stick, he'd be wrong. They'd both be running at PC2700 speed once he installs them, but the good chip will most likely have a lower latency than the cheap chip.
Actually, in the case of the 512 MB option, Apple's price on that is quite reasonable at $75. The best I could find elsewhere was only a few dollars less, and then you had to add shipping, making the 3rd party price actually higher than Apple's upgrade price and you'd have to install it yourself. I suppose you might be able to sell the old 256 MB module then, but is that really worth the effort? The 1 GB option is an entirely different story, even with the reduced pricing.
--- What?
If anyone is considering buying this machine to try to compile a Linux kernel tree (or any application/os that size) on it regularly, I think you need to rethink the purchase. Same goes for heavy video editing.
It's a budget, CONSUMER, box, it's not even the 'pro' consumer model (the iMac). The point of the parent was that perhaps 4% of the computing populace would even notice 1GB of RAM in their machine (as opposed to 512MB), which makes all the kvetching about the price of 1GB on Slashdot seem a little specious.
Oddly enough, this thing works with non-Apple displays. Apple isn't interested in the low-end screen market, though their stuff is compatible.
if someone wanted a bundle including a mouse/kb/monitor, there's a perfectly good (and more powerful) alternative called iMac. (and it's not much more expensive that buying a mini with all the accessories from apple, as you suggested.)
Different market. Lots of people already have mouse, keyboard, and monitor laying around. Me, for example. Or other PC users, who are much of the target audience for this thing. Another target market is for use as something of a home entertainment center - so this thing could be hooked up to a TV, and no monitor. This thing would also look great with and fit in a component rack, which helps in that regard.
The new iMac, meanwhile, is meant as a great one-piece desktop, and does quite well from everything I can tell. But the missions of the iMac, and the Mini, are quite different.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
did you even read the post i was replying to?
Here in Chile, minis start at $429000. At today's rates, that's like US$740. For the basic model.
Add to that that we pretty much *know* that interest rates will be rising in the near term in the U.S., which will make the dollar stronger wrt the Euro. Given the points you mention about fluctuating prices, Apple would be foolish not to take this into account.
hawk
After seeing this I called the 1800 number and got a rebate. It was the easiest thing I have ever done with a computer company. The Apple Store offers price protection for products ub to ten day AFTER SHIPMENT, not ordering. The policy and the phone number to call can be found here [apple.com]. I called last night and they've credited my card. PRICES The Apple Store endeavors to offer you competitive prices on current Apple products and selected Sale and Apple Certified Reconditioned products. Your total order price will include the price of the product (on the day of shipping) plus any applicable sales tax and shipping charges. Apple reserves the right to change prices for products displayed at the Apple Store at any time. Should Apple reduce its price on any shipped product within 10 calendar days of shipment, you may contact Apple Sales Support at 1-800-676-2775 to request a refund or credit of the difference between the price you were charged and the current selling price. To receive the refund or credit you must contact Apple within 14 business days of shipment. http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/salespoli cies.html#Apple%20Prices
Stranded.org
The minis are small enough that you can get them through customs w/o anyone blinking an eye. (You might have to take it out of the shiny packaging, tho.) Spend your hard-earned euros here!!! Seriously, NYC has never been so cheap for Europeans.
few hundred dollars?
C'mon man, this is a cool machine. Price is not everything. Look past the hardware and look at the package deal.
Yes, this is a damn good buy. You get a solid OS, nice included applications all in a nifty little package with style and size unmatched in the PC world.
Also consider the value of the software added. If you actually pay for software, the package Apple ships in the box makes up for the price difference alone!
Blogging because I can...
Which is one of the main reasons that I think blogs suck and why bloggers aren't journalists. Too much unchecked/unverified information.
Yeah, that happens in the real news world, but nowhere as common as the 'blogosphere.
You've got that backwards. Just because it's easier to expose errors in the blog world, doesn't mean that they're actually more prevalent than in traditional news media.
Most bloggers back up every claim they make with a link to their source. You don't get that from any network newscast.
$8.95/mo web hosting
While this is absolutely true, the difference between 256MB and 512MB is much more noticeable than the difference between 512MB and 1GB.
Beyond 512MB, you're unlikely to really notice any difference when using a single application, which is what most users do most of the time. Only real power users with large data sets, server/client processes, and multiple apps running will even notice a need for more than 512MB. This is an observation comming from administering OS X machines at a small business.
If you're editing video, you clearly will benefit from 1GB, but if you're just surfin' the web, reading email, typing an occasional letter and using iTunes, like _most_ users ? Don't bust the bank, 512MB will do you fine.
I'd be happy to "dispose" of your Mac Mini -- or your $575 -- for free, any time!
I was probably the only one to hear this, but on KCBS, the San Jose station, ripped the cost of upgrades on the Mac Mini. I expect Apple people were listening to their radios and considered this and thus you see a quick about face.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
More often than not, I just see bloggers linking to the same news articles instead of mirroring them, which is annoying because online news articles do change, and they do suffer from link rot.
> offer a "cheapish" mac and make a thin margin on it.
Apple has NEVER sold a product at a margin anyone would ever call 'thin.' I doubt they would do a closeout at an outlet store under %25 over cost of production. Normal pricing at Apple is more like 50-200% markup.
> reap the fat margin on the upgrades.
That they sure do. Look at this announcement, the dropped the price on their 1G upgrade by the street price on a 1GB stick of DDR-400. They are now getting $325 (plus keeping the 256MB stick they would normally have installed) for a stick of memory that you can get from A list brands for at least a hundred less. I haven't seen price gouging like this since Radio Shack was dominant in the industry.
Democrat delenda est
Perhaps you should look into using Pierce-Nez instead. You'll never drop your glasses again. Or, if you do, you'll have bigger issues than which pins got soldered incorrectly.
Price for iLife 05 on Dell Dimension 4700....uh.. there is no price for iLife 05 on theDell Dimension 4700.
No, instead you get years of heartache with driver issues with your camera and a corn-you-fscking-copia of bastard-ass photo organization applications that do fsck-all for you actually organizing, printing, and making books from your pictures.
Why do you think that they finally came out with printers with CF cards and fscking monitors on them? I'm sure easy to use software on windows was the reason!
I'm so sick of this debate, i'm not even going to go into trying to use Pinnicle's sucky DVD-put-together software. That has to be the most grabtastic pile of poo i've ever used.
Every time i hear this Cheaper Dell thing.. i aske people if they had to buy two cars - and one was twice as expenive as the other, but the cheaper one meant you needed to run your own cables to the throttle and brake lines and steering box, and they you had to drive-by-wire with bicycle handbrakes - would the car that was 1/2 as much still be worth anything?
btw: did i mention spyware, adware, viruses and trying to setup wireless networks without a CCIE on Windows vs. the more expensive Mac mini?
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
It is also very expensive. You probably need around $1M just to buy the mask set and a batch of wafers. At least you end up with more than 10K of CPU's
Apple used to manufacture in Cork, Ireland. Not sure if it's still a manufacturing facility, but they are still there -- my friend is the manager of telesales for Europe.
Apple's UK store had a glitch earlier today with wildly inflated BTO component prices.
:)
Just checked the price for what I intend to order on Friday (payday!)
1.42GHz Mini
512MB RAM
Superdrive
Bluetooth + Airport
Was £603 including VAT. Now £589 including VAT. Free shipping on both.
So I'm happy, at least
What's the frequency, Kenneth?
.. that their successful marketing campaign was so well done, that they were able to take the numbers from their sales systems and negotiate better terms with their suppliers.
..
really, apple is how you sell computers, when you're not doing it the county-fair-beigebox-hunt way
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Here's the rub, ....
there is no best OS on the planet you phewls. There is a best OS for a certain use, and that is still subjective. Do u need a RTOS? OS X may not be the best choice for that. Do you need security ? Maybe windows isn't for you. Do you want a pretty operating system that yyou won't have to mess with ? try OS X. Do you want to do it yourself and explore cutting edge open source software? Linux is the great for that
music lover since 1969
Hmm - I'm sure that only a few days ago, the UK price to upgrade to Wifi+BT was about £90.
It's now £143(!)
Compare this to the US upgrade price of $99, or £52.56. Also bear in mind that this UK price is, as with the US price, before tax...
A mistake, surely?
"I was very surprised to see that the case truly is aluminum, and not just painted plastic."
I'm guessing your new to the Mac platform. Well, get used to it! Apple's CEO and their engineers/designers pay attention to every last excruciating detail.
The guy who posts the prices and descriptions on the online store, well thats another story.
"Perhaps Apple actually listened to people complaining about overpriced upgrades." No, Apple would have researched and found that the price elasticity of demand was such that if they lowered prices, they could sell more and increase overall profits. Just like Amazon realising that instead of spending money on TV advertising, they could just drop their prices, sell more and increase overall profits.
I went ahead and did a bit of reconfiguring on both ends:
[$981.00] Apple Mac Mini
1.42GHz PowerPC G4
512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
4x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Wired Keyboard & Mouse Set - U.S. English
56K v.92 Modem
Mac OS X - U.S. English
3yr warranty
[$996.00] Dell Dimension 4700
2.80GHz Intel P4 520 (HT, 800FSB)
512MB DDR400 SDRAM - 2 DIMMs
80GB Serial ATA drive
16x DVD-ROM / 16x DVD+/-RW dbl-layer
Keyboard, two-button mouse
Intel PRO 10/100 Ethernet
Windows XP Professional
3yr basic warranty
Not much price difference between the two, although with Dell you have the option of buying a 15" E153FP flat panel for $100, or a 17" 1704FP for $219.
That being said, I think it's a matter of what you're looking for. Windows boxen have a bigger pool of software (apps, games) and a wider range of hardware upgrades at more competitive prices; they also offer applications with a consistent UI (Microsoft apps). Of course, their Achilles heel is security........
With Apple, you're a bit more limited in terms of software and hardware upgrades. However, the software is far more secure than Windows, and the interfaces tend to be more consistent across the board.
The case for the mini looks good enough for a home entertainment PC. I'm not going to put an ugly black or beige box next to the TV
I priced an equivalent Shuttle for that purpose and arrived at about the same price as a Mini. That's not including the effort required to put the Shuttle parts together and install the OS. The Mini comes with everything ready to go...
So, yes, the Mini is a good deal when comparing apples with apples...
I went to NYC several times - not only to shop but to enjoy this wonderful city.
But I'll never go there again, given that they'll take a picture of me and take my fingerprints now.
I've avoided to get into trouble and have my fingerprints taken all my life, why on earth should i have to give them just for hopping over a puddle of salty water?
I bought mini w/512 and wifi, $653. Got it last Friday and love it.
Went to the apple site and went thru the order process again out of curiosity. Same price.
I feel better.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
Apple has always charged a premium for Apple OS. And people have paid it. They want that OS... and an awful lot of people love Mac OS. It's easy, and how many viruses are out for the Mac?
-- No sig for you!
When Dell makes a box of this size and slickness, with WiFi and BT built right in, so that it would look good sitting on my mantle next to my plasma screen, feeding it media, while I control it wirelessly from across the room, we'll talk.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
I'm pretty sure I could drive a truck over the Dell and crush the Dell. That doesn't make a truck a better computer.
Those "Apple" ads are for an Apple third-party retailer, not for Apple.
Compare the ads to Apple's corporate web site. Totally different style and aesthetic.
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
"A question: can a Mac mouse/keyboard from an old G3 system be used with the Mini?"
If they're usb, yes. If adb, a couple companies sell adb to usb adapters. I use one (sorry, forgot the manufacturer) to connect my ancient extended II (IMO, the best keyboard ever made).
The G5 uses a large case and watercooling to control the temps of the high-clockspeed PPC 970 processor. How are they going to sqeeze that kind of cooling into a case the size of a CDROM drive?
Is it bad that I (seriously) think that's a good idea?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Ah another clueless customer... Do you have one machine with more than 4 Gigs of ram? If no... there is only one single reason on x86 to go the 64bit route, you get more than a measly handful of general purpose registers. The x86-32 bit architecture is one of the worst architectures there is register wise, AMD64 eased that problem to a certain degree given that the iron runs in 64 bit mode.
Guess what, the PowerPC, even the sort of predecessor the 68000 already had a lot of general purpose registers from the beginning. So do you need more than 4 gig of ram? No? then why do you want to go the 64 bit route on PPC?
Guess what, you just fell into AMDs marketing hype...
You will save that extra hundred bucks the first time there's a new Windows spyware or virus that you don't have to kill precious hours of your life trying to eradicate that you could have spent instead making money, sleeping, playing with your kids or doing something enjoyable.
I have owned both types of machines for a loooong time. Mac upkeep time/energy is literally an order of magnitude less than Windows upkeep time/energy.
Why are people consistently completely unfathomably incredibly blind to the hidden costs?
So the mac mini is 4700 sek @ 1.25GHz, 256MB ram and 40GB HDD. An 1000 sek upgrade to something more hot might be worth it but then all my programs would be on a slow harddrive so getting an external faster one might be a better choice. So what is needed?
* DVD-R option, since I don't want an external to and a drive + case would cost as much anyway.
* 512MB ram, either new stick and sell/get rid of the old 256MB or upgrade.
* Apple keyboard and mouse.
* USB soundcard, I want digital output and microphone support. But which ones work with the mac?
Also I don't know if I really want to spend almost 10.000 sek on something which comes with a crappy Radeon 9200 SE 32MB. Such a stupid choice.
For the same price (add TFT-monitor) you could get an iMac but then you would have to add some things again since the default configuration sucks, and you are still stuck with the HDD (I suppose) and the crappy Graphics.
Who do all macs have to have crappy graphics, same prices for years and expensive addons? Can't the first "price hit" be enough?
On the second hand I have no money, but I don't want this x86 crap either.
Really I don't see why people complain about the memory issue, you can always do it yourself.
However you can't upgrade the graphics and the Radeon 9200SE 32MB isn't all that great and for the price of the complete machine it sucks big time.
That's what's holding me back the most.
Well because eventually Apple is going to only sell G5/G6/G7's and eventually only sell 64 bit apps which won't run on 32 bit systems. Sure this won't happen tommorow but be sure that it will happen in a few years. The same goes for the x86 market. A 64 bit machine can run 32 bit and 64 bit apps with no problem but a 32 bit comp CAN'T RUN a 64 bit application. I could not care less about ram but I do care about FORWARD compatibility. Of course the way things are going with software, more than 4 gigs of RAM should be common in the next couple of years to run games and high-end programs.
To sum up:
a 64 bit system is a more flexible system that will transfer smoothly into the future when many "off the shelf" programs are 64 bit and I rather not have to check box labels to see if they are "compatible with older systems" (like what happened when the 286 was becoming/became obsolete).
No programs written today are compatable with a 286 machines and 286 16 bit machines are esentially "junk" but an old 386 or pentium machine can still be usefull as a linux box or a Windows web browsing box.
I have not replaced my 32 bit machines but any new computers I buy are going to be 64 bit. Whether I buy Apple or x86.
I miss the Karma Whores.
We all know geeks usually have good imaginations.
..a slight tweak. It's not bad, but I think for me, I'd have to 1 up the mac if I were going compete against it's trendy style.
I'd go elegant style with the hush case. The way those fins sit, works excellent with the ability to stack as well. And I'm not talking the whole device package, just the case. -Fussen
Seriously, aside from upgrading the RAM, what else needs to be upgraded in this computer? I would guess that most people who are buying the Mini have another Mac or a PC or two. I fall into the latter group (my Mini is the first Mac I've ever owned) and find that it's much more effective to use the resources of my PC's (large hard drives for storing huge files, DVD burner for writing movies created with iMovie+iDVD) than to use the mini's. And with the Microsoft Remote Desktop Connector, I can pull up a full Windows XP desktop on my Mac whenever I need it, which is becoming increasingly less and less. (Oh, and using a Firewire cable to network between my PC and my Mini gives me transfer speeds that make the hard drive and not the network connection the bottleneck point!)
It works 100% fine with Firefox 1.0, which is what I use on all of these sites, including this one. Feel free to try it out, it will work fine.
First, I do not use any Microsoft products, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
Second, is what I said not true? The Mac Mini has a small, slow laptop hard drive, a tiny amount of RAM (doesn't it use laptop SODIMMs too?), and minimal expandability. Sounds like a shitty laptop, right? Wrong...they're selling it as a desktop!
sup
Since when do you get read your miranda rights when someone sues you? Is that what the guy who serves the papers is supposed to do?
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
...that I paid period for it. You can get one for free. http://www.freeminimacs.com/?r=14202116
does'nt mean anything, maybe your're repeating FUD you heard elsewhere and believe it to be true
Second, is what I said not true?
NOPE Hard drive is plenty fast and the ram is standard DDR SDRAM. And as for flamebait?
I don't post anything I don't believe to be true. You're naieve to think that microsoft would not conduct a campaign of lies against competing products!
You are not buying a 32 bit machine because you fear they will only ship 64bit binary in a few years? 1. They wil ship both 32 & 64 bit versions, adding a 32 bit version won't cost them anything. They can even make on binary file contains both and load appropriate version when it's excuted. 2. The day they decide to drop 32 bit support will come much later than when you feel your machine is too slow to run those shiny 64 bit only programs.
Sometimes to the point of absurdity.
Funny story from Folklore.org:
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
The key to quality in all transactions: Make the customer feel like they are getting a deal.
Or translated, "make people believe that the cash they are handing over is worth LESS than what they get."
So if a product selling for $400 has a worth of $500, then the customer is getting a $100 deal.
That's how 'value' works. That's what Apple sells in their products: Value.
Of course if this doesn't work for you, then fine, but don't go around thinking it's wrong that it works for other people.
People buy the iPod DESPITE the Apple name. Have you thought of that? People who think, "What, 3% marketshare?", "Proprietary computer?", "Slow computer?" or, "No software?" and STILL bought an iPod? Apple does charge a premium, but it's not without merit. The iPod wasn't a con job.
GPL Deconstructed
Somehow, you've managed to make even less sense with this post. I'm impressed.
sup
I think apple probably thought they had a little time before it became such common knowledge how to open and service a mac mini. Now that the cat is out of the bag, they knew they had less chance of selling the high mark up prices they were offering as many people would do it themselves or have some mac savvy friend install the upgrades. So instead of just not getting any slice of that pie, they lowered the prices to try and hold on to some of that business.
For what it is worth I just checked the Apple website and the only Superdrive option is the 4X. Is the 8X yet to come or are we talking read speed? The other price/feature changes that the article suggested are reflected though.
I think you are deluded.
1. There is little incentive for companies to have developers port applications from 64 to 32 bit (for any long period of time).
2. In 1995 when Win 95 came out (MS's first 32 bit OS), almost overnight everything became 32 bit only. Just wait until MS is only selling a 64 bit OS and I would think Apple will be even happier to go this route (considering it is such an incetive for people to buy new hardware).
It is only because Intel is dragging thier feet (because they banked thier future on the Itanic and now have to follow AMD's lead instead) is the writing not as obvious as it was in 1992. Apple has not quite transitioned OSX to 64 bit (or will it be OSY by then) but when Apple and Microsoft finally do provide a 64 bit OS, it will be more obvious to you as well.
As an offtopic side-note about "Moores Law"- If you have not noticed, "Moores Law" has slowed down tremendously in the last fifteen years. It used to be "doubles in speed every 6 months" to "doubles every year" to "doubles every 18 months" and now it is "doubles every 2 years". I am still happy running a machine that I built in 2000. A 64 bit machine I might build this year will probably be good to the year 2010 or longer.
I miss the Karma Whores.
I wouldn't want to run Photoshop with 256MB RAM, but I wouldn't want to run Photoshop on one of these anyway!
:)
Right, because no one ran Photoshop on a machine until a year ago... ???
Photoshop runs great on my 800 MHz G4 Ti PB. I guarantee it will run better on a mini with decent memory, which in most cases is going to be 512MB or greater (my PB has 1GB). The PB surely doesn't run PS as fast as a G5, but you know they didn't exist 2 years ago (and still don't in a portable format). Funny thing is it does run it a heck of a lot faster than my 400 MHz G3 downstairs.
Really, there's only one serious thing a tricked-out mini can't do well and that's high-end 3D gaming (or the like) due to the 9200, which is just a hair too light for my tastes. Just about every thing else you can do in a reasonable amount of time for a $500-$1000 computer. Just get that 512MB stick. At least.
I'm not going to buy one, but I have no qualms about recommending it to less tech-savvy friends and relatives.
leaking assholes in R&D
It's all that damned veggie cuisine he made the Apple cafeteria serve.
Use Romeo instead. It's free and has more nifty features, as well as 3rd party plugins (which are easy as pie to make yourself).
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
While I agree with you that things are not very well integrated on a cheap PC, and the programs you get with it are usually substandard, adware or worse, Picasa for Windows is in my opinion a better solution than iPhoto 4. It's slicker, looks like it doesn't have a crazy folder structure for the pics, and has some nice presentation options (not to mention integration with Blogger). The little collages option looks cute too. Problem for not very savvy users is that they have to find out about it and download it though.
Having said that iPhoto 5 looks like it will be a good upgrade and will hopefully fix some of the gripes people have with the older iPhoto. In a way it'd be nice if Picasa was on the mac too to provide some competition.
I use a mac as my main machine and wouldn't use Windows, but the Apple iApps are not always the best of category (at least not in the first few iterations). It's more that the combination means you have reasonably good solutions out of the box for everything you'd like to do, solutions which just work and don't get in the way (no clippy!).
It started with sigs, and now it moves on to messages.
What's next, are you going to start emailing everyone in your address book (or perhaps strangers) with that link and a little blurb about this Gre4t s1te with free stuff? ?
There is little incentive for companies to have developers port applications from 64 to 32 bit
On the contrary, there is little incentive right now to use 64bit only operations, and little opportunity in fact, you have to jump through hoops to do it. That will change (in a few years at the earliest), but when it does, programs won't have to be 'ported' to 32bit, they'll probably just be compiled using different 32 bit libraries (for math etc) and run slower. As the parent said, this can be handled quite easily with the bundle format, that's what it's designed for.
In fact a bundle could include an x86 binary too, if the OS handled that platform. If all APIs, libraries etc were available (big if) for that platform, the developer would just have to do a recompile with a different target for that as well. That'll never happen though.
In 1995 when Win 95 came out (MS's first 32 bit OS), almost overnight everything became 32 bit only.
Apple is not Microsoft; programs written and compiled for 68k
processors still run on OS X, and will do for the forseeable future.
Going by your logic, you should be happy with your 32 bit machine bought now in 5 years, as G4 macs happily run software written in the early 90s or even the 80s -- for a different OS, on a different hardware platform.
In 5 years your position will be reasonable, right now I think it's a little pessimistic.
I have, it's one that I keep an eye on. The problem is I need good reverse engineering. Everytime I try to use Argo for this it locks up halfway through. Together and Rational are the only tools I have found that will handle large reverse engineering projects, and Rose sucks in so many other ways, it's completely unusable.
Argo is great for forward engineering, and if all I had to do was forward, it would be my choice.
We could make a pretty spiffy analog computer out of a truck and a large number of computers. Imagine we want to sort our range of computers by strength to find the set strong enough to stand being run over by a truck. With a traditional computing system we'd have an O(n) task of of measuring the strength of each computer, an O(1) task of measuring the crushing power of the truck, and an O(nlog(n)) task of sorting them. With our new method, we can line up the computers in any order, O(n), and then run the truck over them, O(n), and read off the results O(n). So the traditional method is O(nlog(n)) while our new one is O(n). Ours does happen to be a destructive sort, but we can live with that.
This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.
Expect that at least the next 4-5 years you will get 32 bit versions of anything... Even Windows64 on the AMD/Intel side is sort of problematic and probably will only be serviced as a sideoffer (64 bit OSes usually carry a 32 bit thunking layer around)
The reason why the move from 16 bit to 32 bit was carried out so swiftly back in the early nineties was. Because programs ran into the 16 bit barriers left and right and every developer hoped that he could move to 32 bit in an instant, add to that the fact that the consumer mass market happened way after the switch to 32 bit, and even then a 16 bit thunking layer was needed at least for 3 years.
The situation nowadays is totally different. 64 Bit windows is still in unstable mode, Linux is there but some problems still are problematic, there is no actual need for the programmers to have 64 bit, because the mem boundary will not be reached for another 5 years and there is a huge market of old 32 bit systems which wont be phased out before 2010, so dont expect any serious abandoning of the 32 bit systems before 2010-2012. There is more marketing into 64 bit than any sanity on the client side of things. Servers are a different game though... But I admit the marketing of AMD hit intel on the ignorance side... And one thing finally AMD fixed which Intel should have fixed in the mid eighties, they finally added more general purpose registers, which will help VMs and compilers tremendously.
Besides that the move from 16 to 32 bit had other motivations. First win95 was the first windows with a good gui, the move to 32 bit finally brought a plain memory model instead of the hated segments. The next problem was that programming against x86 16 bit systems was god awful and nobody really wanted to do it because you constantly ran into the segmentation barriers etc... The current situation is totally different, there wont be any really big 64 bit impact on the client side before 2010, and before that it is no big deal to do multi platform compiles, after all we are not talking about having to change lots of code for the upgrade from 32 to 64 bit (the mem issue is does not exist currently and people usually dont use data type boundary tricks anymore to save a few processing cycles)
but OS X programs do not run on a 68k AND THAT IS THE POINT.
People keep arguing that 32 bit will be fine (which is true for a little while still) but what is the ADVANTAGE? If you spend a couple extra dollars, you get all the plusses of a 64 bit machine and a future you can be happy to embrace but if you buy a cheap 32 bit machine what are the plusses?
The G5 IMac looks like a better deal when one considers it is just as loaded as the mini and it obviously comes with a monitor and is a b4 bit machine and has all the improvements that IBM has added to the G5 generation of CPU's (which I am not as familiar with).
On the x86 side, it only costs a hundred bucks more to get an amd athlon 64 system which has:
1. more general purpose registers.
2. capable of handling far more ram.
3. Faster in most benchmarks (and that is in just 32 bit mode let alone the 64 bit mode. In 64 bit mode some math intensive apps are shown to be ammazingly better)
4. better memory controller.
5. A 64 bit system compatible with future software while still being compatible with existing software.
So yes I could buy a 32 bit machine but what is the ADVANTAGE?
People argueing with me in this thread keep saying "the world won't change so soon" or "what do you need 64 bit for" but NOBODY has tried to give ONE good advantage to buying a 32 bit machine over a 64 bit one. I on the other hand have mentioned several good reasons to go to a 64 bit machine. As a buyer, I see only upside to going 64 bit and no downside so that is my choice. If anyone wants to still buy 32 bit machines, it is no skin off my back. My policy is to look toward the future and not the past. If somebody can come up with a real legitimate reason NOT TO go 64 bit, I will respond back but otherwise, I am done with this thread. I did not write my original post to try to convince people of the merits of 64 bit. I only mentioned that it seems like a good deal but too bad it was not a G5 or I would pick one up (and I got modded as flaimbait).
My "final answer" to all this is... "WHATEVER".
I miss the Karma Whores.
I know a lot of people who have amd 64 machines and from what they say and what I have seen, there are no real issues. The only problem is finding many applications (at the moment) that are 64 bit but all the 32 bit programs run just fine (including plain old win xp)
I miss the Karma Whores.
: o
a real legitimate reason NOT TO go 64 bit
Well, G4s are significantly cooler, and significantly cheaper, so for now they're quite a good choice, particularly for a small machines. But yes, as you say, on all technical counts, it'd be nice to have a G5 in there, they're just expensive right now. On the x86 side the difference is more pronounced because of the registers. Given their history with OS X (still supports G3s) I doubt they're going to dump G4 support anytime in the next 10 years.
I used to be a major mac hater back in the DOS/Win16 days... Back then I wanted to tweak things. DOS/Win16 was pretty tweakable. Then I started messing with Linux. Tons of tweakability, but the apps are always in sort of a "Beta" stage. The macs I have seen are first class AND have some of the *nix features as well. I did the 1.25Mhz with the 512MB RAM. I plan to use a KVM switch with a USB keyboard to switch between Fedora Linux and the Mini. GSG
I was trying to make a joke. I never actually bought one. I would though if I had the money.
You do not need 1GB of RAM!!!
Now, noone can say who does or doesn't, but I am guessing that many apps and many peoples habits of leaving things open wuoldmean that watching tv, writing DVD's, using P2P, and reading 6.2 billion graphics heavy web pages at once can consume RAM.
512Mb is still a whole 512Mb less than 1GB. Yes prices will fall, why buy 1Gb now? Well I personally use every last Kb of it, and try and keep out of my page file.
Yes I am a power user, I burden my poor silicon based machine (and my computer sometimes) will all the thinking jobs.
She doesn't mind.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
I have a 64 bit machine as a workmachine in my current job... Running 64 bit linux there... there is no advantage there for me as an application developer currently... You simply currently do not run into the memory boundaries of 32 bit, and the increased number of registers on the Intel side (the PPC since day one always had a high number) is only interesting for people who do assembler stuff (compiler builders, vm programmers, game programmers)