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Mobile Phone with PC running Linux 2.6
A8 writes "There is a new toy (aka the S101) around the corner from a German company called Road GmbH. Looks like the Nokia Communicator, but is a little PC with GSM, GPRS, IrDA, Bluetooth, WLAN -- you name it, running Linux 2.6/Qtopia! Sorry seems like the page is in German only." There are also versions based on the same hardware but running Windows CE and Symbian.
Ah, the Psion 5 ... that was a really decent bit of hardware for the time. Quite a usable keyboard too, even on the minimal Revo model.
Here is the Goggle translation
-=test-sig_0.1.5(NoWhitespaceVersion)=-
Take a look at the keyboard - finally a keyboard at a PDA-size device that includes keys for international characters. It takes germans to understand that some alphabets are longer than a-z!
who speak english.
Looks to me like vapourware. Hardly any info, pictures tooled up with Photoshop (or whatever). No address or phone number, just a one address email. Is it a 'skam' (as we might say auf Deutsch)?
Did he inhale?
...are "still under development". Considering the difficulty of getting hold of licenses for either of these two OSes as a small developer, don't hold your breath.
I'll be interested to see how this competes with Nokia's Communicators. It doesn't seem to offer any new features, so it might have to compete on price.
Can someone inform me/us what the advantages of running the Linux version would be? I already assume it would be cheaper to aquire such a phone dollar wise , and being immune to viruses (sp), but what about in day-to-day operations?
What use is linux for handhelds, considering there are currently no good open source mini browsers (eventually, there will be minimoz) or handwriting recognition programs.
For less than this, you could get palm or windows devices that are fully functional. Until there is a free handheld environment, we can't just say "stick linux on it".
--
Dogs are annoying. Go ECFA. Buy a K9Zap today.
S101/S101K
Technical features
Software
- standard applications
- GSM telephone with SMS/MMS
- PIM also
* Directory
* Appointment calendar
* Tasks
- pocket calculators
- dictating machine
- indication program
- MP3 Player
- PC synchronisation Ms Outlook
- remote ACCESS
- InterNet Browser
- email client (POP and IMAP), repeated accounts
- Office Viewer (Ms Word, Ms Excel, Adobe pdf)
[Customized applications]
- cryptology (only S101K)
- Business applications for direct access to firm servers
- Providerspezifi on-line services
[Operating system]
- LINUX Kernel 2.6.x
- Qtopia Graphic user interface
[Hardware]
- GSM telephone
* Display: LCD mono chrome 102x65 pixel
* Keyboard: 20 keys standard layout
* Acoustic output over earphones or free speech mechanism
- PC
* Display: Color TFT 640x240 pixel with Touchscreen
* Keyboard: 63 keys PC-compatible layout
- Diktiergeraet/Audioplayer
* 4 separate keys for control
* Rendition over loudspeakers/earphones
- camera (optional)
* 2 megapixels
Actual working time
- GSM telephone: actively 4h, standby 240h
- PC: actively 5h, standby 30 days (GSM telephone switched off)
Konnektivitaet
- wireless: GSM quadband (850, 900, 1800, 1900MHz) with EDGE
* WLAN
* Bluetooth
* IRDA infrared modules
- wire-bound
* USB 2,0, mini USB socket
* SD Card base
* Power supply unit 5V DC, RK 1A
* Telephone Headset or stereo earphone
[Interior life]
- CCU Intel Xscale PXA 263 with 400 MHz
- memory 64MB RAM, 64MB Flash
- Akku lithium polymer 1500mAh, load time 3h
- vibration alarm
[General data]
- weight 210g inclusive Akku
- dimensions 128x60x25m
Does anyone else remember the simpler days, when phones where just phones? When you didn't have to bother with your friends sending you pictures over their $400 internet phone camera thingies? When you didn't have to interupt a kernel compile just to check your voice mail?
I do. Good times.
What if the entire Universe were a chrooted environment with everything symlinked from the host?
In the English version of the page, if you look at the larger picture of the device, the keyboard has a Windows key next to the Alt button. I understand we can remap that key to do whatever we want, but can't we use another image? I'd like to be reminded less of the pervasive MS Windows monopoly.
Linux at home
I think I see Outlook Express running here: http://www.road-gmbh.de/grafik/foto_pro_s101_02.jp g
On Windows 9x...strange ;-)
This is -at most- a work in progress. The phone looks as if it were just a computer graphic(look at the large image). The firm is just being founded. Everything is copyright 2005 only. The features look as if they were some developer's dream.
where's all that Karma?
What strikes me as odd is that they claim a 5 hour battery life using it as a computer but only a 4 hour battery life for calls. Are cell phones really that power hungry or are portable computers really that power lean?
Don't mess with the bunny, outsideworld.org
Those "old good times" you paid $500 to have something like a Motorola Flare (my first mobile, and left me a horror towards Motorola phones really).
It says:
- PC-Synchronisation MS-Outlook
Even the English version of their page is somewhat poorly translated, but it's pretty obvious they mean you can synchronize with Outlook, not that it INCLUDES outlook.
They also say there's viewers for office documents - don't confuse that with "Includes Microsoft Office."
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Where do you see it running Outlook?
That screenshot is so small it might just be any decent mailclient.
And besides, TFA merely states it can talk with outlook for synchronization...
Veni, Vidi, Velcro!
While it looks cool, it seems more vapourware than anything else, as other posters have mentioned.
Which company in their right mind plans 3 models of a phone, with the only difference being the OS?
Anyone know why the "Y" and "Z" keys are switched?
...as soon as I've ordered my Treo 650, they introduce the phone that will mother my children.
I'm determined to reclaim my karma. Now, if I can only find a groundbreaking article and something witty to say....
Hey, let's get this out in the open, shall we. The product was "announced" at the 3GSM World Congress, it don't exist, you can't buy it. Yet...
:-(
But the specs have been announced, you can email the company about pre-ordering, and it's getting some decent coverage. Plus the fact it looks pretty cool (the screen may have been photoshopped, but the model looks like a prototype).
Usually I like to give a product more than 72 hours before denouncing it as "Vapourware".
Now, about the 1400 Euro pricetag
"Any similarity between the hooting of a million eager monkeys and Slashdot is purely coincidental." -THEFLASHMAN
The ROAD is 128x60x25mm
I abandoned my belt holster three years ago when I shifted to the Samsung. Qualitatively, the ROAD is on the bleeding edge of being too large to keep in your pocket if you wear guy-type casual clothes. I guess it's back to wearing the phone in a belt holster if I move to the ROAD.
On the other hand, 128mm looks like an absolute minimum width for a QWERTY keyboard, and 47mm is really short for a usable screen, so unless we go virtual, it looks like a belt holster is mandatory.
My service provider is Verizon. No GSM. Will ROAD eventually have CDMA, or will the US eventually have GSM?
No, thats a shot of it running WinCE. The post says the hardware runs WinCE, Linux or symbian. Read the entire thing next time.
Using a Qtopia handheld myself, I can say it doesnt really count as "linux" persay
The wait was unbearable.
Finally a Cell Phone you can use to type viking names without knowing the ASCII codes.
like the XDA-2 and the XDA-3, it will contain not one but TWO ARM processors:
- GSM-Telefon: aktiv 4h, standby 240h
- PC: aktiv 5h, standby 30 Tage (GSM-Telefon ausgeschaltet)
that translates into "one ARM to run the GSM, one ARM to run the PDA". thank god there isn't one ARM to rule them all and one to get them and little toto too, is all i can say.
anyway.
the first is as shown, the Intel PXA 263 running at 400 Mhz.
these devices are approx $30 in volume quantities, and after your 400% to 1000% markup, minus the expected subsidies, would result in a price tag of oh around £70 in stores (_if_ it was running the GSM phone bit on its own, but nobody would buy it because...)
this processor it will be possible to place into "suspend/sleep" mode, to conserve battery life, which would otherwise be drained in a ridiculously short period of time.
the second processor will be an ARM 7, 8 or 9 processor, running at an _absolute_ maximum of 100mhz, consuming sufficiently little power to provide the talk-times and standby-times we expect.
these processors are oh around $20 in volume, and after your 400% to 1000% markup minus subsidies, you're looking at a price tag on the phone of "free" or £10-£20 (_if_ you didn't have the second processor)
put TWO of these processors into one device, and your subsidies mysteriously disappear or become insignificant.
result: a price tag of £200 if you get one of these types of phones [XDA-2, MDA-3, one of these german phones, doesn't matter] with a hefty per-month guaranteed usage contract, or £400 if you buy it without any subsidies.
those 400 to 1000% markups are a _real_ kicker when you get these two-processor PDA+phone jobs.
i'd _love_ to see a linux phone running on just one of these 100Mhz ARM processors, not this oh-we-must-put-two-processors-in-it crap.
If you click on the links on this page, you'll find that the company plans future phones using the same hardware, but with Windows CE or Symbian in place of Linux. They're hedging their bets!
What is the real difference between this and Nokia 9500? One that I can think of is availability - 9500 is on the market, at half the price of S101, which in turn look like a marketing prototype. 9500 has WLAN, EDGE, GPRS, BT, IrDA, ability to do IMAP/POP mail, Opera browser, m$ doc support (although rudimentary)
I dont see the point of S101 as it isnt any lighter or smaller than 9500. OK, it runs Linux, but so what, using keyboard that small is excercise in futillity anyway..
What it has as a big plus is touchscreen, 9500 has navigation pad that is painfull to use in browser.
so WHEN it comes to market, it will have its little advantages, but compared to 9500 and with bigger price, I doubt it can make nothing more than a cameo appearance on the market..
When I do input on a handheld device, I prefer a stylus to a keyboard, since it takes two hands to type, and I'm not a motie. Yet all PDAs now seem to be deisgned with a keyboard instead of a stylus. Oh well...
... Cingular has already started rolling UMTS out for evaluation, and they already have EDGE support. Dunno about TMobile, but maybe in a year's time it'll be time to switch...
So, in other words, buying any non-subsidized non-3G smartphone at this point would be foolish unless your company is footing the bill.
In theory, if I had a job, I would be sorely tempted to go with the SE 910a, but I would refrain from splurging knowing that they'll probably have a 3G smartphone with a better CPU, bluetooth 2.0, video, etc.. in a year or 18 months... Luckily I have other things to worry about first, like rent, broadband, xbox live, cans of soup, the essentials....
Is it just me, or does the photo
http://www.road-gmbh.de/grafik/foto_pro_s101_02.jp g
show it running Microsoft Outlook...
Oh the irony...
Now, to wait for my Zaurus 5500...which I paid AU$300 (US$228) for...lol.
bye,
Victor
I don't know where I'd picked up the impression that Microsoft didn't like to hand out CE licences, but it was obviously wrong!
They also say there's viewers for office documents - don't confuse that with "Includes Microsoft Office."
Yeah, I noticed that. But then, why would a sensible person want to produce proprietary documents? I'd much rather produce documents in a format that can be read by anyone that I send them to, without first checking to see if they have decoding software.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Cool! Another gadget running Linux that 99.99999% of the technology-buying public will never see! SWEET!
Mobile phones with WLAN is what I want to see. The more and cheaper the better.
I really want a cheap phone that I can make WLAN based VoIP calls from anytime I'm near a hotspot.
... was that it's 128x60x25mm and weighs 210g. This isn't a pocket device, unless you've got deep pockets. It's a small laptop with a builtin phone.
I did also notice that the specs include 640x240 touchscreen. I wonder if you could use a random stylus with the screen? If so, what's the sensitivity? I do have a couple of those multi-gadget pens that include a stylus (plus pencil and red/black or red/blue pens). It'd be cool if you could use these. Of course, a stylus that hides inside the device would be more likely to be there when you need it.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
According to the web site, the guy who founded the company has a patent (filed in 1995) for a combination of "mobile PC with a cellular telephone" and then in 2005, he "founded" this company, whose "goal" it is to create a product. The product "photographs" are obviously fake: the scale of the screen is wrong and a keyboard with concave keycaps makes no sense on a small device. This guy may be trying to cause some trouble with his patent, that's all.
Motorola makes several Linux-based cell phones that are apparently quite nice. Otherwise, the Nokia 9300 and 9500 are great little cell phones with a decent operating system (Symbian).
The best reason for me is, in potential at least, ease of development and porting. I was using opie on my ipaq for a while, and loved some parts of it. The only reason I removed it was that I could never find a SDL package that was fully compatible nor get SDL to compile for it. Aside from that, it was pretty easy to take applications I'd quickly thrown together for my linux desktop, and put them on my pda. For the average user, not so useful. For a programmer using linux at home it can be pretty nice.
Everything will be taken away from you.
This is why you should never buy any electronic device, no matter how useful. The very moment you click on "place order", something twice as good and half as expensive will appear on the market, and make you hate yourself!
Please carry this phone. sincerely, Valued Customer
This is as much a portable "PC" as all the Zauruses before it.
I'm sorry to inform you that many people don't really care about formats that "can be read by anyone you send them to". They only care about Outlook compatibility. If it works with Outlook, then they say fsck everything else.
These little PCs, running Linux, can really handle some work. Even my iPaq3670/Familiar0.8 is a great little "compute server" running over ethernet; it easily plays 320Kbps MP3 streams out its stereo headphone jack. I bet its battery would last 10x longer with Bluetooth. So a Bluetooth/WiFi or /GSM or /CDMA gateway, with its own batteries, in my coat pocket or pack, could give it hours of between-plugs use. Keyboards with batteries and Bluetooth are plentiful. What we need is a Bluetooth headset display, so all those parts can stay in the bag or coat pockets, and just wear the goggles. Where's the $300 SVGA/stereo HMD?
--
make install -not war
These four letters seem to come up quite often when dealing with German companies, what do they mean?
Google search didn't help me a lot because it just comes up with lots of company names.
. The amount of overhead required for running a multitasking operating system really isn't compatible with the hardware being used (that is, its speed), and isn't compatible with the way its being used anyway.
You're quite simply wrong. Windows CE/Smartphone stuff is actually less efficient in many areas than Linux. For one, the use of XIP (which MS seems to prefer) for most applications eats a lot of flash and cuts down on performance. A typical PocketPC image is generally much larger than a Qtopia and Busybox based Linux fs and kernel.
And multitasking is perfectly suited for a PDA despite what you might say. I doubt Windows CE would have had any acceptance as a PDA platform if it did not have multitasking capability.
The cpufreq stuff in Linux gives comparable or better net power consumption for a wide variety of tasks as well.
The linux kernel is a win here because it gives respectable performance without having to put up with the hassle of a crippled API like Windows CE (anyone that has programmed CE apps of any significance knows exactly what the C stands for).
You have to realize that many of these phones are using processors like Freescale and Intel PXAs that are power efficient, yet they are among the fastest ARM implementations available. These processors are many many times faster than any 386...so are you saying that Linux should never have been created? They are thoroughly fast enough to run graphical environments like Qtopia and even a surprisingly large number of roms on MAME.
It's a win because with Linux you get a fairly stable platform with the ability to use many POSIX and POSIXish libraries, many that are PDA relevant (OpenOBEX, Bluetooth) (plus have things like UNIX shell scripting and python for hackers). JFFS2 for all its problems is still more robust than that abortion called IPSM.
You should be aware that for ARM platforms (what most of these phones are anyway) there is work being put into linux 2.6 that uses the domain feature of the ARM MMU to make context switches extremely fast.
It sounds like you are completely clueless when it comes to running software on smaller systems and really don't have a fucking clue what "overheads" are involved in running a system like Linux..
You should check to see what your drinking water pipes are made of.
There have been even more mobile (cell) phones with Linux announced, e.g. from the German company Invair, from Curitel, Datang, E28, Motorola, NEC, PalmPalm, Panasonic, Samsung and Yuhua.
I work for Adobe, you insensitive clod!
Follow me
Oh yeah! Let's try and start a flamewar, wouldn't we? Would be amusing....
There is an "english" link at the top of the page - pointing to http://road-gmbh.de/en/index.html
"The amount of overhead required for running a multitasking operating system really isn't compatible with the hardware being used (that is, its speed), and isn't compatible with the way its being used anyway."
You're quite simply wrong. Windows CE/Smartphone stuff is actually less efficient in many areas than Linux. For one, the use of XIP (which MS seems to prefer) for most applications eats a lot of flash and cuts down on performance. A typical PocketPC image is generally much larger than a Qtopia and Busybox based Linux fs and kernel.
And multitasking is perfectly suited for a PDA despite what you might say. I doubt Windows CE would have had any acceptance as a PDA platform if it did not have multitasking capability.
The cpufreq stuff in Linux gives comparable or better net power consumption for a wide variety of tasks as well.
The linux kernel is a win here because it gives respectable performance without having to put up with the hassle of a crippled API like Windows CE (anyone that has programmed CE apps of any significance knows exactly what the C stands for).
You have to realize that many of these phones are using processors like Freescale and Intel PXAs that are power efficient, yet they are among the fastest ARM implementations available. These processors are many many times faster than any 386...so are you saying that Linux should never have been created? They are thoroughly fast enough to run graphical environments like Qtopia and even a surprisingly large number of roms on MAME.
It's a win because with Linux you get a fairly stable platform with the ability to use many POSIX and POSIXish libraries, many that are PDA relevant (OpenOBEX, Bluetooth) (plus have things like UNIX shell scripting and python for hackers). JFFS2 for all its problems is still more robust than that abortion called IPSM.
You should be aware that for ARM platforms (what most of these phones are anyway) there is work being put into linux 2.6 that uses the domain feature of the ARM MMU to make context switches extremely fast.
It sounds like you are completely clueless when it comes to running software on smaller systems and really don't have a fucking clue what "overheads" are involved in running a system like Linux..
You should check to see what your drinking water pipes are made of.
Mod up...
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
A hackable phone with WLAN. I guess it won't be long before someone puts a VoIP client on there.
Use WLAN to make cheap calls and GSM for backup if there is no WLAN available.
there is no other mail client that looks like that. black background windows logo in the top right, the windows fade bar on top, the word formatting toolbar right above the text box... it's outlook. but who cares.
have we not already seen something like this in the Motorola A720 ... seems to recall reading something on /. re: the specs on the A720, though said device apparently will never reach North America ... it has been available in Japan and some say EU for well over a year, if not 2 years ...
Question Authority before IT questions You
Actually, that's a mock-up, using an Outlook 97 or 98 screenshot as the window on it.
Look more closely.
Looking a little more closely, I now see why it's an Outlook window - the window title for the screenshot (I copied the image URL) is "remote access to a stationary PC".
Still CLEARLY a mock-up, though. If this (the other picture they had) doesn't look like a mock-up, I don't know what does.