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ESA and NASA Consider Joint Mission To Europa
ewg writes "In defiance of the monolith, the European Space Agency and NASA are in the early planning stages of an automated joint mission to Europa, Jupiter's watery moon. This follows the triumphant Cassini-Huygens mission to Saturn's moon Titan. "All these worlds are yours, except Europa...""
Get the quote right, at least:
"All these worlds are yours..."
Vincent J. Murphy
Spandex Justice
Ok, I'm not supposed to use that word then? Ok fine. I'll just say, "sounds like Europe but without the Europeans (or a decent oxygen supply)".
. . . for putting the line from the Clarke novel right in the intro and getting it out of the way.
.
This will eliminate about half of the impulse entries on this subject.
That said . .
Heyyyyy, how 'bout them Probes! Whoooo! Go probes!
Stefan
Hopefully not 2010. That could only be a bad thing. I hope they attempt no landings there.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Hope they get a EuropaRail pass this time.. lot cheaper than the last trip.
Heh, sorry, the first time I read this I read "Joint Mission to Europe."
-Pan
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
Que lame jokes about unit conversion.... now. No, seriously. Please do it right, guys at ESA and NASA.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
What's the difference?
You don't want the monolith coming back to earth and taking away our collective inteeligence as punishment, do you?
Maybe the monolith would come back and make monkeys MORE intelligent than us, just to keep us busy...
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
Depending upon your point of view, all of the above could be construed as Science Fiction, too.
I was wondering why all of my hairbrushes started floating this morning and why John Lithgow was wearing that stupid hat. (I keep trying to tell myself that that movie never happened but alas ...)
"It's difficult to meditate on amphetamines." - Joe Walsh
You'd be surprised how some people disagree with you.
"Here's a fun fact: the moon has turned to blood!" -- Newscaster, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
Long histories of blody war?
Naaw, Science Fiction is only for entertainment (that occasionally spurs creative application of concepts). The former are all documents which different types mass hysteria are based upon.
Southwood's plan is for the US to settle for building a simple 'relay satellite' and to get their glory probe into orbit around Europa so that they can claim all of the credit.
Why would NASA want to do all of the hard work and spend all of the money to put an ESA orbiter at Europa??
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
none of those 3 have been any better at predicting the future than a Sci.Fi. book. So why give any weight to them?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
There's a good page discussing life on Europa, and the issues concerning exploration of the moon, here.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Just a concern about safety.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
Depending upon your point of view, all of the above could be construed as Science Fiction, too.
I appreciate and agree with the point you're trying to make, but I disagree with your choice of labels. The Bible et. al. might be construed as "Soft-Sci Fi" maybe, but I'd consider including the Bible, the Koran, and the Maya Codex under the heading of "Science Fiction" (of any kind, soft or not) to be a fundamental misuse of the term. Science Fiction is supposed to be fiction based on science, however loosely.
"Fantasy" would be a more accurate heading for those works, as in "Fantastic Fiction." After all, they include such notions as "magic," "god(s)" etc. that really have no foundation whatsoever in science.
I've always found it unfortunate that fantasy ("Lord of the Rings" etc.) is grouped with science fiction, as I consider the two genres to be no more alike than Murder Mysteries and Romance (which enjoy their own, seperate sections in the bookstore). This doesn't mean that science fiction and fantasy can't sometimes be combined, just as one can have a romance/mystery novel, but that doesn't change the fact that science fiction and fantasy are fundamentally different, just as mysteries and romance novels are.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
You guys are missing the point... We receive the warning *after* we attempt to land there with an automated probe.
I, for one, welcome our new chlorophyll overlords.
The Shuttle is a nice toy but JIMO and a nuclear powered spacecraft is clearly the way to go. NASA should kill the Shuttle and build the JIMO.
This is my sig.
C'mon Europe!
Be proud of your heritage!
I am glad to see cooperation between the two continents. I know it is fashionable to be pro-Europe/Anti-American or Anti-European/Pro-American. However, ultra-nationalism ends up being a detriment to mankind as a whole.
I hope we continue to build bridges between the continents...
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
ESA and NASA have both had their own internal problems with communication and organization (units of measurement; Beagle 2). With both of them cooperating, won't they be almost certain to make a big mistake somewhere? :-)
I know Europeans use metric
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Those who ignore the future
are doomed to prepeat it
Arthur C. Clarke is a prophet of god. The one true god: Rama!!! After all, he predicted that after 2001 we would have free long distance worldwide. Well? There's IP telelphony taking the world by storm. No charge for long distance calls ever again!!! How dare you blaspheme the great prophet Clarke!!!! May Rama burn your eyes out with plowshears and beat them into swords!!!
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
How do you know? Perhaps you aren't using the correct translation.
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
You know, when I saw a link to an article that is to shed light on the dangers of a trip to Europa, and I saw that the linked domain contains the name "Bowman", I honestly expected the content to be vastly different than that.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I'm not worried about a couple of kilos of plutonium - I'd be more concerned if they found an independent form of life (probably bacterial-like). Maybe somebody (in a later mission) will want to bring some back. The worst diseases are often those that recently jumped a species barrier (think SARS or AIDS) and haven't had time to coevolve with the host. That might be a good reason to attempt no landings there ...
So, is China building a "space station"? Don't be surprised when you find out its really a ship. (And Shipwrecks some poor chinese scientist on Europa) Oh, Arthur C. Clark must be so proud.
meh
Naaw, Science Fiction is only for entertainment (that occasionally spurs creative application of concepts). The former are all documents which different types mass hysteria are based upon.
That's a true distinction, most of the time. Unless you're L. Ron Hubbard, in which case at least a portion of your science fiction / fantasy IS intended to befuddle and create mass hysteria.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
They will repost the removed articles *twice*.
That, boys and girls, is how dups are born.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
One phrase: "Metric vs. US customary"
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
What the hell happened to the JIMO mission?
This follows the triumphant Cassini-Huygens mission to Saturn's moon Titan.
The Huygens probe was a technical success. But ESA's handling of the landing event left a lot to be desired. If there is another big mission lets hope that the sharing of initial results with the public is handled more openly.
an ill wind that blows no good
"..., I would like deep-penetrating radar"
I'd like to see a permanent orbiter that can map out the moon in detail first.
Select a target for something similar to "comet busting".
Then drop several probes into prime targets.
Further, lets put some robotics onboard these probes.
Look at the heavy equipment used in the Huygens probe.
Albeit its great for durability, there has to be a more compact way to design the connectors.
Look at these pictures:
Huygens Internals
Huygens RS232 Connectors
Surely you can save space and weight with a more efficient connector than an RS232 jacket.
Look at how compact electronic devices are.
Get Sony to help with development.
Be good for some advertising I'd think.
Esa Nasa gonna takea all gungans to Europra, Anni?
Fantasy is a sub-genre of Science Fiction. It contains fictional science. That is the definition of Science Fiction. Magic and trolls and what not do not exist in real life therefore a fictional science needs to be created in order to explain it.
That is really stretching the definitions of both magic and science beyond the breaking point. By that definition religion creates fictional science to explain things, which is nonsense. Whether they are truthful or not, religions are not science. Whether magical worlds can be articulated that are perfectly self-consistent (they can, at least to the "dust-mote" level) or not, magic is not science...though as Arthur C. Clark did point out, a sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from science. But that refers to our inability to comprehend, not a fundamental legitimacy of magic as science.
In any event, most fantasy never tries to explain why magic works, and that that does, generally doesn't do so with any semblance of science, Robert Shea's adventures being a notable exception. Which doesn't disprove my point: a few science fiction/fantasy crossover novels that blend the two does not two disparate genres unify, any more than romance and horror are one and the same simply because a few novels have been written that incorporate elements of both.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Goddammit, I didn't get an anal probe!!
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The correct quote is "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", but I guess we all knew that...
This reminds me of the DepthX submarine which was described in a recent issue of Wired. The probe would drop down, melt through the ice, and then autonomously search for hydrothermal activity on the sea floor.
r tfolio351/pages/352-EuropaProbe.htm (neat painting)s /jvanleer/astro%20sum01/astro101/missions_to_europ a.htm r ef.asp
The group working on it is currently putting together a version to explore and search for life in a rather hostile water-filled cave in Mexico. They've got a progress report here, with many details and pictures.
Some other links related to a Europa probe:
http://www.tsgc.utexas.edu/archive/design/europa/
http://www.cosmographica.com/gallery/portfolio/po
http://www.cascadia.ctc.edu/facultyweb/instructor
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20021102/fob3
Scientific articles:
The Challenge of Landing on Europa
Possible ecosystems and the search for life on Europa
others
you havnt read the bible till you've read it translated to japanese and back to english via babelfish.
As long as they bring their measurements tables with them, I don't foresee any problems. heheh
The science fiction works author's intent is verifiable and the author hjimselfs admits and claims it to be fiction.
This is not true for the other books.
Europa is full of stars.
It's more like "Those who post on Slashdot are doomed to repeat it."
"It" being the same damned joke over and over.
It's like I'm in some bad "Star Trek" meets "Doctor Who" meets "2010" time travel episode or something...
"All these worlds" my ass.
How about, "All my fists are yours in the face, except my foot, which has attempted a landing in your ass."
[awaiting judges' score for best turn-of-phrase]
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Unless you're Orson Welles, in which case a suitable presentation of an SF classic certainly can produce mass hysteria...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
I'm sure Uranus could use a good vacuuming from time to time, being so difficult to reach and all.
Duh! The Esa is there already. Talking of unfair competition...
Looks like Europa is covered with snow at the moment. Remember to bring a snow shovel! :-)
In any event, most fantasy never tries to explain why magic works, and that that does, generally doesn't do so with any semblance of science, Robert Shea's adventures being a notable exception. Which doesn't disprove my point: a few science fiction/fantasy crossover novels that blend the two does not two disparate genres unify, any more than romance and horror are one and the same simply because a few novels have been written that incorporate elements of both.
That is not the point at all. Science Fiction is technically any story that has any elements that cannot be explained in our understanding of science. Hence, they only way to resolve it is by changing or adding to that understanding. Does the author have to explicitly say that he has created a fiction scientific unverse? No, often it is quite obvious. Magic, whether you call it technology or not doesn't matter, is not supported by our view of science. Therefore it is a fictional universe based on fictional science.
Many books/films/stories which are considered SciFi never explain how anything works (Firefly, War of the Worlds, Stranger in a Strange Land) but they are SciFi still. Science Fiction is an extremely broad topic and has many sub-genres which is why they are usually seperated out in bookstores to make organizing and finding things easier.
Now who's the evil, evil, evil person that edited the section heading to both a) conform to the Wikipedia Manual of Style and b) break the in-page link at the beginning of the article?
So they've finally given up finding intelligent life in America, eh?
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
all ... except europa ? where it is from?
Deliriant isti Americani.
No, it's just that some of us can't learn from 2001/2010 because they never made any damned sense to us :)
Best I got out of those films was a good "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." sample for errors, and my first exposure to the word "monolith" :)
When was the last time the Europeans helped us send a ship to America ?
The fact that average joe clueless still thinks that space should be one huge dick size comparison is a big part of what's preventing us from doing truly collaborative big science missions on a regular basis and reaping the scientific knowledge just waiting to be taken from such missions.
Well...to be honest, it is "Joe Clueless"'s tax dollars that are being spent on space research. And, honestly, pride is just about the only return that he's likely to get out of it (and perhaps a couple of those false-color artworks that NASA churns out for general consumption). He's not going to get a cure for cancer, a faster modem, or simply a bigger TV out of it.
Before you scorn Joe Clueless, remember that you are trying to ride a vast mass of him and his fellows and convince them to give you enough to do your work. That's man-hours of his life working over a hot grease pit at a burger joint that you're taking away. Don't begrudge him the penis-measuring that is the only real compensation that you are giving back to him.
a spacecraft on the surface will have to survive ~3.2 million rads/day. the galileo and cassini probes have survived short term exposures of that magnitude but they almost always got messed up pretty good (safemode at the least, permanent damage of instruments at the worst).
:-)
anything built for a surface mission would have to be unbelievably radiation hardened compared to any spacecraft flown so far.
i think it's safe to say there will be no manned europa missions for the forseeable future
for any long term surface mission (more than say, 30 days) you would definitely want to burrow under the ice.
They ought to go to Phobos instead, and see if it has enough hydrogen (ideally water ice) and carbon to supply fuel for a cheaper and safer variant on Mars Direct.
More like fantasy. The science in the Bible is simply awful and not realistic at all.
That is really stretching the definitions of both magic and science beyond the breaking point.
How so, they're the same thing.
At which point you stopped reading and shut off your brain. Had you continued reading the very same paragraph, you would have seen:
magic is not science...though as Arthur C. Clark did point out, a sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from science. But that refers to our inability to comprehend, not a fundamental legitimacy of magic as science.
Arthur C. Clark's "law" refers to limitations in our perceptions and abilities to understand a sufficiently advanced technology. It does not, and never has, implied that hocus pocus equals science.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I'm sorry Dave; I can't allow you to do that. No really Dave, the monolith thing? - not kidding... You really do not want to piss off what lives beneath the ice.
What the hell happened to the JIMO mission?
Allow me to quote: linoleo's Recent Submissions
Title / Datestamp
NASA axes Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter / Wed February 09, 1:53 / Rejected
It all happened on the sly, tucked away as a side note to the decision to deorbit Hubble. NASA has sunk to new lows. (So has Slashdot for rejecting the story. And for making me reformat the above to defeat their lame lameness filter. Why the fsck is whitespace considered a 'junk' character? Bah.)
Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard