1.4mm Thick Gigabit Ethernet Cable

TheIonix writes "Flat network cables aren't anything new, but I'm pretty sure ones like this are. Japanese accessory king Elecom today announced the "LD-VAPF/SV05" network cabling, coming in at 1.4mm thick." Also here's their press release if you can read Japanese.

Comments

.14mm thick

[mirko]

is that supposed to be thin or thick ?
because optivcal fiber seems thinner.

Re:.14mm thick

[Short Circuit]

The whole cable is 1.4mm thick, not just the wire. Optical fiber has a jacket that significantly increases the cable thickness.

Shielding?

[Manip]

Most of the thickness of standard Ethernet cabling is not the metal wire but the protection of that wire from EM radiation and physical damage. This ulti-thin version might not be able to withstand those conditions which could result in data corruption or loss.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you considered that maybe they thought of that? Maybe to call yourself an ethernet cable you have to meet certain specifications.

That said .. anyone have numbers?

Re:Shielding?

[KyleJacobson]

Im guessing they took that into consideration and have developed it to withstand physical damage and such. From the looks of it, it can be closed in a door and have no damage, and walked on with no damage. Hopefully you are wrong and they got this right so I can finally run cable from room to room and be able to close my door.

Re:Shielding?

[gl4ss]

the whole point of making such announcement would be that you would have solved that shielding problem.

the real novelty of this thing(if you watch the pics) is that you can run it through thin places(like windowstills.. no need to bore a hole to the wall).

Re:Shielding?

[Broiler]

OK first off what is an Ethernet cable? You can not buy one at a store. You can buy a CAT5, CAT5E, CAT6...cable at nay computer store.
Second twisted pair UTP)is not shielded. http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition /0,,sid7_gci213234,00.html/

Re:Shielding?

[Gaewyn L Knight]

Most ethernet cable used today is UTP... which stands for 'Unshielded Twisted Pair'. Their is no 'EM protection' built into the cable other than the arrangement of the wires to prevent crosstalk in the individual strands.

If they can provide enough 'twists' and correct pair placement then they can easily provide just as much protection as standard Cat-5/Cat-6 that we use today.

PS People should also NOT use shielded twisted pair... in most environments it actually hurts signal quality do to it's jacket effectively being a single strand of conductor to pick up stray noise from 110V, ballasts, etc...

Re:Shielding?

[omach]

As far as I can se are they specifying Cat5. That almost certainly means they have a large number of twists/inch which gives a good protection against M-field induced interferance.
E-field interferance is not such a large problem as the data is transfered in differential mode and the CMRR is rather high in the equipment.

Re:Shielding?

[afidel]

Well, if you are going to use STP you need to be using equipment designed for it. Equipment designed for STP needs to have a good ground plane and needs to bring that plane out to each port. Between the grounding of the jacket and the twisted pair STP cabling should not be worse performing that UTP, and in some environments is MUCH better. Of course in any invironment with enough RF noise to warrant STP I would just use fibre and not have to worry about the RF at all =)

Re:Shielding?

[dickens]

It's not just crosstalk. Twisting improves "Common Mode Rejection" because the twists cause any interference to be picked up with opposite polarity on any signalling pair.

Obviously, IANA EE.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

In a house that you own, you dont NEED to close the doors, but if you want some privacy with your wife from the rest of the house because of company staying over or other things and there are cables running through doors, this is a viable solution...

Fuckin tool

Re:Shielding?

[orasio]

I believe that you are referring, by "standard Ethernet cabling", to RG-58, or to the garden hose that was used for 10base5 ethernet.

Re:Shielding?

[thefogger]

I am not a network cabling specialist, but at least here in Germany ist quite difficult to find pure UTP cabling. The standard seems to be FTP (Foiled Twisted Pair) which has a metal foil underneath the outer coat. There's a thin bare wire which connects to the shielding inside each jack. The jacks themselves have additional contacts which connect to matching metal contacts on the sides of the plugs.

Cheers, Fogger

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most ethernet cable used today is UTP...

Really? What is "ethernet cable"?
Ethernet is a layer 2 protocol... cabling is layer 1. You can run Ethernet over Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, coax (10Base2, 10Base5), single-mode/multi-mode fiber, and probably lots of other media types.

Sorry, I just see too many people talking about "ethernet cable" when there is no such thing.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you use guns in and actual ammunition in defense of liberty, or are you limited to just the boxes?

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

The same can be said for you. And yes for me too. We're all fucked up

Re:Shielding?

[ajs318]

Two conductors of small cross-section in intimate proximity carrying equal currents in opposite directions make a very poor antenna.

Small cross-section isn't a problem. Opposite directions are easy to arrange: all you need is a resistor on the far end, bigger than the resistance of the cable {which depends on the cross-section; more area == less resistance}. Equal currents require differential drive arrangements {one goes high while other goes low -- think motor reversing circuit -- not hard} and that the terminating resistor on the far end is smaller than the input resistance of the receiver. {Spot the conflicting requirements here ..... the whole of engineering is really just about finding the best compromises between incompatible "ideal" requirements to produce a solution that will work under real-world conditions.}

Intimate proximity is traditionally ensured by twisting the wires together, but bonding them side-by-side in a flat configuration works almost as well, if you can live with the fact that there is actually going to be some directional antenna functionality, but it's very directional.

Twisting helps to cancel this out somewhat, by ensuring that any radiated fields tend to cancel one another out: somewhere further along the cable, a signal will be emitted with the opposite phase; and if the twists are close enough that the conductor is in intimate proximity to its opposite counterpart, the two will cancel out.

Exactly how close is "intimate" depends on the wavelength, of course.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

The unwanted signal (noise from interference for example) would be common on both conductors of a pair, so not opposite polarity, but yes you have the right idea.

Re:Shielding?

[InfiniteWisdom]

OK first off what is an Ethernet cable? You can not buy one at a store.

A google search for "ethernet cable" finds 682,000 pages that disagree with you.

By your argument, I guess you can't buy a car either... you can only buy a Honda Civic EX 1.5 5-sp Manual, Toyota Corolla CE 4-sp Auto etc.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

"OK first off what is an Ethernet cable? You can not buy one at a store. You can buy a CAT5, CAT5E, CAT6...cable at nay computer store."

An ethernet cable is the standard that the most people are using -- CAT5. It's a simplified name so that more people can understand it without being frightened away by technical terms. Only nitpicking nerds would care to discern the different types. Do you use that mouth to talk to your mother? She must be shocked to hear the words coming out of your mouth!

"CAT5, CAT6, Slashdot..."
"My god, my child is a COMPUTER NERD! *faints*"

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Concurring with the other reply to your post, you really didn't have to be an ass over semantics that don't matter.

Re:Shielding?

[i8a4re]

You're right on need a good grouding plane, but there are cases where UTP will perform better than STP. The shielding will create a capacitive coupling with the signal. As the frequency goes up, you will lose more and more of your signal. So 10 Mbps will perform better over STP, but gigabit, especially on a long run, probably won't perform very well if at all over STP.

Re:Shielding?

[TeknoHog]

By your argument, I guess you can't buy a car either... you can only buy a Honda Civic EX 1.5 5-sp Manual, Toyota Corolla CE 4-sp Auto etc.

I think the parent meant that UTP cable is not limited to Ethernet use. Like there's no such thing as a Windows PC because the machine can run other operating systems as well.

On the other hand, there are people who would just want to buy Windows PCs and Ethernet cables and not worry about the technical details.

Re:Shielding?

[-brazil-]

Really? What is "ethernet cable"?

A cable used for Ethernet.

You can run Ethernet over Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, coax (10Base2, 10Base5), single-mode/multi-mode fiber, and probably lots of other media types.

And your point concerning the statement "Most ethernet cable used today is UTP." is what exactly?

I just see too many people talking about "ethernet cable" when there is no such thing.

Sure there is. As you say yourself, it comes in a lot of different varieties, and, as the grandparent poster said, the most commonly used ones are UTP.

Re:Shielding?

[ortholattice]

The shielding will create a capacitive coupling with the signal. As the frequency goes up, you will lose more and more of your signal. So 10 Mbps will perform better over STP, but gigabit, especially on a long run, probably won't perform very well if at all over STP.

You are so wrong it's not funny. Doesn't anyone take basic electrodynamics anymore? A cable is a transmission line. Assuming the characteristic impedance is properly matched, as it should be for any high-speed application (i.e. not audio), the speed of the signal and the frequency response have nothing to do with the capacitance per unit length. The speed is typically around 0.7 the speed of light regardless of the capacitance per unit length. An ideal (theoretical) transmission line has a perfectly flat frequency response regardless of the capacitance per unit length. High-frequency losses are mainly due to skin effect, which has to do mainly with the resistance and thickness of the metal. Skin effect has nothing to do with capacitance per unit length.

Re:Shielding?

[Broiler]

The better analogy would be transportation. There are multiple types of transportation, but no transportation car.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the parent meant that UTP cable is not limited to Ethernet use.

For instance, im using a partially untwisted one for a stereo antenna. Im using another one with the jacket removed for a cat toy. The uses are endless.

Re:Shielding?

[PalmKiller]

I suspect the metal shielding is there because of this more than for protection

Re:Shielding?

[InfiniteWisdom]

Why? because that's the level of abstraction that's most convenient to your argument?

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

I fail to see how you could easily run this cable in small places. Granted the cable is only 1.5mm thick, but you still have the plugs on either end to concern yourself with, unless people are going to crimp the cabling themself, which given the size of the cabling, would be quite the task for most.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ethernet cable is a generic term referring to
all three, plus the variants. Just as car is a
generic term referring to a large class of vehicules.

Re:Shielding?

[Broiler]

Why? because that's the level of abstraction that's most convenient to your argument?
Just trying to stay within the boundaries of your own argument.
OK, how about this, a search on Google for Santa Clause produced 484,000 hits. Just because Google can find it doesn't mean it exists.

Re:Shielding?

[seeded]

No Santa Clause?! yes, Broiler, there is a Santa Clause.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

hopefully you're wrong about them being created so thin so people could do shotty and impermanent cable installations. i'd imagine they did create them as more of a space thing. think about your typical wire-ladder loaded up with cat5e, or worse yet cat6 wires, these are what,like a fifth of the size? your wire ladder has just become that much smaller and unobtrusive.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Kyle, do you have hopes of ever having sex with a living female human or are you just resigned to your fate? Please answer seriously - no personal attacks, I am intrigued by your existence.

Re:Shielding?

[gl4ss]

**I fail to see how you could easily run this cable in small places. Granted the cable is only 1.5mm thick, but you still have the plugs on either end to concern yourself with, unless people are going to crimp the cabling themself, which given the size of the cabling, would be quite the task for most.**

then you fail to read the article(or look at the pics).

and yes, it would mostly be crimped by the installer and custom cut, but then again it's not exactly for consumer self-done installations

Re:Shielding?

[pianophile]

I can pee standing AND have multiple orgasms!

Simultaneously? Wait, on second thought maybe I don't want to know...

Re:Shielding?

[biglig2]

I'll go out on a limb and suggest it is a cable that you can run Ethernet over. This is a broad definition, of course, but that does not make it an invalid one.

For that matter, CAT6E is no good for my friend Ernies ethernet network - the RJ45 doesn't fit his switch's AUI ports no matter how hard I push it in.

Anyone who wants to find a joke about Gay sex in there, I hear Kuro5hin are hiring moderators...

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a she! Or, she's a he! Mu!

Re:Shielding?

[spdt]

A terrible argument, this is.

Ethernet does define the physical layer, but does not tie it to one specific type of cable. Ethernet was originally defined using coaxial cable, which is much different than the twisted pair you must be used to. Your parent post was referring to the fact that there are different types of cable (coax, twisted pair, even fiber) that can be used when you need an "ethernet cable".

Re:Shielding?

[spdt]

Actually, ethernet does define the physical layer, as well. That's where the terms 10Base2 and 10Base5 come from, if I'm not mistaken.

Re:Shielding?

[unitron]

"I think the parent meant that UTP cable is not limited to Ethernet use."

Nor is Ethernet limited to twisted pair, shielded or otherwise. That BNC connector on old Ethernet NICs is for co-axial cable.

Re:Shielding?

[Anonymous Coward]

A little late to be replying to you, but just noticed this now... I actually have sex on a regular basis with my wife, don't understand why people are wondering about that...
God forbid someone on /. has a wife and possibly kids and a computer in their room... I would like to have my door closed when I am having sex with my wife if there is company spending the night, or in the near future when we have kids... Use some common sense people

Flatwire

[Jjeff1]

I'm not sure if it's out yet or not, but Flatwire has talked about this at least a year ago.

Re:Flatwire

[Jjeff1]

Shame on me for responding to my own post, but I wanted to note that DeCorp also makes that flatwire product for audio, video and electrical wiring as well.

Re:Flatwire

[megaversal]

Last year (during summer) when I was in Japan, I bought a bunch of Elecom cables (CAT6 though, but the same thin design). They also sold CAT5 (10/100) cable at the same store I got my CAT6, so I'm assuming the real "news" is that they now have gigabit-capable CAT5 cable in the thin variety, not that flat cable is something new, or that even gigabit varieties of flat cable are new.

Re:Flatwire

[stefanlasiewski]

I'm curious how this performs in comparison to traditional twisted-pair cable.

The wavy lines in the back of the photo look like "twisted pair" in two dimensions, but it seems like that would only be effective against EMF coming from either side, whereas traditional twisted-pair is effective against EMF coming from all directions.

But maybe it's good enough-- not everyone needs 100% throughput, especially in a home environment.

Re:Flatwire

[megaversal]

I haven't heavily tested my cable (Elecom flat CAT6), but in normal use, I get the same speeds as my friends who have regular gigabit cables on a cheap D-Link gigabit switch (upwards of 12MB/s -- they have Powerbooks, I have a Gateway; all built-in NICs).

Re:Flatwire

[NeoSkandranon]

Just out of curiousity, do they make above average cables, or is this a Monster Cable type of thing?

Re:Flatwire

[megaversal]

Do you mean pricing-wise?

If I remember, 7 meters of the flat cat6 at the time was much cheaper than anything I saw in the US for standard cable (which I buy in bulk, but I also bought the cable in Akihabara, known for its ridiculously low prices).

Also, check out http://www2.elecom.co.jp/cable/lan/index.asp Even without knowing Japanese, you can get a general idea of the types of cables they offer (they have tons of other networking products too).

Re:Flatwire

[NeoSkandranon]

Well, i meant pricing wise and gimmick wise (are their cables actually better/do they make a difference, or are they marketed heavily)

Translated Page

[bigtallmofo]

Google Translation of press release.

Re:Translated Page

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, it takes a special kind of mod to moderate a translation of a page linked straight from the article summary as "Offtopic."

Re:Translated Page

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say it takes a special kind of mod to moderate such a valiant effort up.

Re:Translated Page

[Anonymous Coward]

How is that off topic? Its a translation of the press release for people who don't read japanese, which is 99.9% of the Slashdot audience. And the mods modding this offtopic is fuckin ridiculous. What the hell happened to this dump? First only timothy posts stories for likea month, and they all suck. Now the mods are fuckin brain dead, and I don't mean peter jacksons first movie. I mean completely fuckin stupid. As in voted for Bush.

Re:Translated Page

[lpangelrob2]

The translation was ?????? and didn't really tell me more than I could've figured ??????, but I do have to say that the picture of the cable in the window was ?????? cool... although I'm not sure what happens to ?????? when you start running cat-5 cable outside. Could I use it to theoretically hook up a weather station outside to my ?????? inside?

Re:Translated Page

[wcrowe]

"All your 1000Base-T are belong to us."

Re:Translated Page

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not "effort" or individuals that are supposed to be moderated. It's posts. (Though the stupid Karma system counteracts this goal...) A link to a translation is "informative".

Re:Translated Page

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll take some of that special bread, with some garlic butter please. Oh, and throw in a few of those whores, too.

Re:Translated Page

[artemis67]

1) Japanese web page
2) Google translator
3) ??????
4) Profit!

Re:Translated Page

[makomk]

Quite. If you're going to write a Japanese to English web translator, please get it to transliterate kana into a romanised form for words it doesn't know. Chances are the the reader will be able to guess the meaning of most of them, on tech pages at least...

RE: Coolness...

[fshalor]

Can't wait to see them bringing down the ceilings in old campus buildings. (We always run stuff in the plenum. :) 0 )

I'm still not sure I'm okay with the potential for interfreaence in these... it's just too thin... I'd love to see how many u can stack on top of one another before they break.

Useful

[DarkSarin]

If the pics are accurate, and you can really shut the window (sorry I don't read Japanese), then this is some cool stuff. I can see it being used to hide cabling and make it less obtrusive.

Other than that, they had better be selling it for close to normal cable prices, or I can't think of anyone who would buy very much of it.

Re:Useful

[Capt James McCarthy]

Sharp bends in your cable (closing a window on it) will degrade your throughput.

Re:Useful

[DarkSarin]

I know that this is normally the case, but the question is how this stuff holds up.

Re:Useful

[Anonymous Coward]

It would work if the window slides sideways with the closing edge touching the cable, which is what I think this one does.

Re:Useful

[jim_redwagon]

call me naïve, but isn't having a cable running thru a window be more obvious and obtrusive than thru a wall jack? ;-)

Re:Useful

[sharkey]

Possibly. Still, running it a couple inches off the floor through a sliding door as shown in the picture might be preferable to many homeonwers, and definitely to renters, than drilling through the inside and outside walls to run in-wall cables.

All fine and good

[PDA_Boy]

But surely a large file will not fit through such a small cable? You'd need to hammer them down first, which is an unwanted chore. Easier than making them small enough to transmit wirelessly, I guess.

Re:All fine and good

[slimak]

its pretty easy to just keep ziping the files over and over until the result gets small enough -- even for large files (CD image or something) 5 times is generally enough for my needs.

Re:All fine and good

[Anonymous Coward]

But surely a large file will not fit through such a small cable?

I can't believe you're so naive! Ever heard of file compression?

Re:All fine and good

[dances with elks]

the ones should be ok, they're quite thin but I'm just not sure about the zeros

Re:All fine and good

[PDA_Boy]

Oh... compression... like those things for flattening roads... clever!

Re:All fine and good

[sphealey]

> But surely a large file will not fit
> through such a small cable?

AT&T used to have a commercial where a guy was sending so many faxes that a pig-in-a-python-sized lump of data went travelling down the wire, wrecking havoc wherever it went. I actually fell on the floor laughing the first time I saw it because we had a person in our office at the time who I had accused of doing exactly that.

sPh

Re:All fine and good

[suffe]

Just encode the zeros as two ones and you are set to go.

Re:All fine and good

[Epistax]

It's a clear liquid, how can it possibly clear a clog?

(Sorry, it's an Ad I've seen here in upstate NY for a drain remover appealing to the stupidity in people)

Re:All fine and good

[L0neW0lf]

But surely a large file will not fit through such a small cable? You'd need to hammer them down first, which is an unwanted chore. Easier than making them small enough to transmit wirelessly, I guess.

What, you've never heard of data compression? ;)

Re:All fine and good

[Anonymous Coward]

Just don't send the zeros. The one are the important ones. Who cares if you don't have anything.

Re:All fine and good

[corngrower]

Just thread the wire through the zeros and slide them along the outside of the wire. They can't fall off. That's what I've been doing for some time now.

Re:All fine and good

[Bob The Cowboy]

Well no problem, then!

At the end you just put the zeroes in by hand where the gaps are! I'm sure a perl script could be written...

Re:All fine and good

[SirTalon42]

How can it grab the clog?

Its a liquid, and don't liquids just run right through drains?

Re:All fine and good

[the_weasel]

My solution was to NOT send the zeros. Anytime you don't get a 1, just assume you would have recieved a zero instead. :)

Re:All fine and good

[bad_fx]

Of course if it's an audio file, mp3 for example, you can also reencode it to a lower bitrate at one end, then rereencode it back to the higher bitrate at the other. Lots of folk used to do this sort of thing in ye olde days of Naptster and so forth. Ayup. Yehaw. ;-)

Re:All fine and good

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, not all data will pass through this kind of cable. For example, your databases will have to be restricted to flat file formats.

jay!

[Anonymous Coward]

That is going to save a heuuuuge amount of space at larger NOC. Way to go .jp!

Oh, and first post!

Babelfish?

[aendeuryu]

Babelfish translation...

Re:Babelfish?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's odd that the Katakana isn't translated.

Note: Katakana is used mostly to pronounce words that are non-Japanese. So, for those wondering...

The kana just above the top line reads "News Release" (Ni-Yu-Su Ri-Ri-Su).
The first line of kana that has what looks like a capital "I" followed by a "fishhook" is the company name, "Elecom" (E-Re-Ko-Me).
And the lines starting with the capital "I" just before the words "category 5" is "enhanced" (E-N-Ha-N-Su-Do).

Oh, and "Rippa-na!" to the Erekome kaisha!

baka gai-jin

thick?

[Anonymous Coward]

i think you you mean 1.4 mm Thin. wink wink

Optical Fiber

[kc0re]

I guess I don't understand what's the point in this article other than "informational". We have optical fiber cable in my office, it can't be any thicker than about 2 mm's.

I really appreciate the fact that people are generating new technologies, to make things thinner, however, this is where stuff should be going, not groundbreaking news.

Re:Optical Fiber

[Minupla]

It's interesting because fiber is pretty damned sensitive to things like going around corners and being run over with office chairs and a whole lot of other things can make it a challenge to deploy to the desktop. That's why gig over cat 5e is way more popular these days then over fibre. Outside of the machine room fibre isn't a popular solution. And definatly if you're going to run it around window tracks or under carpet with roller chairs, you don't want to use fib...

Min

Re:Optical Fiber

[TJ_Phazerhacki]

#1. Slashdot isnt just reserved for groundbreaking news.

#2. This is actually kinda cool - I'd like to see the interference before I'd act, but Id much rather run a flat cable under some carpet at our office than string through the celing AGAIN....

#3. I'd really like to see your fiber cable do the 90 degree bends like in that picture. Go ahead, we'll wait for you to replace the expensive broken cable to post your response...

Re:Optical Fiber

[dj245]

And definatly if you're going to run it around window tracks or under carpet with roller chairs, you don't want to use fib...

Min

The handwritten signiture kind of defeated that joke. If he was cut off, he wouldn't have bothered writing "..." and "Min", would he? Oh well, maybe he was dictating.

Re:Optical Fiber

[Minupla]

LOL

Actually my phone rang and I had to do real work, so I had intended that to read as fIbe (long I, a shortened form of fibre) as I reached for the phone to find out whom had broken what this time.

Sorry for any confusion aobut my intent.

Min

Re:Optical Fiber

[Charcharodon]

Well because a very nice copper router and cabling will cost you next to nothing compaired to fiber.

We run fiber at work, but it's only to connect out lying buildings for distance and security, and for some of the longer runs inside. Inside on the short runs you can find anything from coax (they won't throw nothing away, it's insane) to 1000bT.

Why not run over copper, it's fast it's cheap and until it exhausts it's limits or fiber becomes a whole lot cheaper and easier to work with then it will still be king.

Re:Optical Fiber

[Anonymous Coward]

You dropped the last two letters from fiber but replaced them with significantly more periods. You didn't have time for the extra few key presses?

Re:Optical Fiber

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Since when can you run your average piece of fiber cable through a sliding door, then still be able to close the door and not damage the cable? Same goes for windows, and many other things.

Not all of us are able to have the perfect setup when it comes to cabling/wiring.

Re:Optical Fiber

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when was the last time you ran fiber through a damn sliding door?

Re:Optical Fiber

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Never. But I do have an Ethernet cable running out a window, and now I can't close the damn thing.

The most important problem...

[Jimpqfly]

... is not thickness, it's the cable ITSELF I think... I'd rather see some important research on WIFI than this kind of invention...

Re:The most important problem...

[KyleJacobson]

While WIFI would be good to expand on, some of us must use cable no matter what comes out. I work in a building where we can't have any wireless device, cell phones, pda, pages, tape recorders, etc... So cable like this can come in handy, especially when we are so limited.

Re:The most important problem...

[Jimpqfly]

I understand that, I'd just rather see research on the "we can't have any wireless device" side :)

Re:The most important problem...

[AviLazar]

Luckily for you, then, that we can do research on more then one field/topic at any given point and time so we have multiple technologies and choices.

Re:The most important problem...

[Bequita]

Wire serves a purpose - it is more secure. It will always be more secure than wireless. Security will sometimes trump convenience, and therefore research on both wired and wireless each has their own place.

Ironically enough, they're trying to become more alike. Wireless is trying to become more secure, and wired is trying to become less obtrusive.

Re:The most important problem...

[poot_rootbeer]

I'd rather see some important research on WIFI than this kind of invention...

ME TOO

Instead of a cable that runs between two pieces of electronic equipment that will never move relative to each other, requires little power to propagate a signal, has nearly unlimited bandwidth potential, and is relatively difficult to snoop, let's all switch over to wireless! I mean, it only takes more power, is more susceptible to snooping, and resides in a finite frequency spectrum which is getting more crowded by the day...

Re:The most important problem...

[Ride-My-Rocket]

The most important problem is not thickness, it's the cable ITSELF I think... I'd rather see some important research on WIFI than this kind of invention...

On a similar note: why are we still talking about improving the fuel efficiency of modern fuel sources: solar power, fossil fuels, natural gas? I'd rather see some important research on cold fusion than this kind of improvement....

I'm not sure

[varmittang]

I'm not sure if I would want to run my ethernet cable though a window like they have pictured. And like someone said before, does it have good protection of the data going though the cable? Because it would be pointless to run this cable if its easy to cause data loss. If they little to no data loss, and a good price, I might want to use it instead of some regular size wires.

Re:I'm not sure

[yincrash]

It's labeled as Cat 5 which means it has met certain specifications. It appears that it costs 2,400 yen which is a little more than 20 dollars for half a meter of cable (and the flat part is less than half of that).

Translation of press release

[sczimme]

"We are disrespectful to cable of girth. Can you see that we are serious? Join me or die. Can you do any less? For special lucky data, use Elecom LD-VAPF/SV05 network cabling."

Re:Translation of press release

[Anonymous Coward]

We cannot achieve much with such thin ethernet cable. But you Americans. Wow! Cable so big!

flat==better

[Neuropol]

less crosstalk in flat cables. wound pairs generate magnetic fieids.

these should help reduce that, as well as being all around handy for tough install locations or special needs.

Re:flat==better

[dunc78]

With differential signals, as the signals that travel over Cat-5 are, you want twisted pairs, not flat cable. The coupling between the wires of a twisted pair is what helps to reject interference. You can buy ribbon where the twisted pairs are side-by-side instead of in a round configuration, but I don't know if they make this ribbon with the characteristics required of cat-5 cable.

I see this post on a new site everyday

[nev4]

The problem with with reading Engadget, Gizmodo, IDFuel, BoingBoing and Slashdot is that sometimes one story will just start on one and eventually be posted to all of them...

Re:I see this post on a new site everyday

[Anonymous Coward]

Get back to work.

The Boss.

UTP doesn't have shielding!

[PornMaster]

The U in UTP is Unshielded. Standard Ethernet doesn't use shielding. But it does use the twists in the cabling to combat interference.

It looks like this flat cable is only for very small sections, for which you can probably get away without the twists if you've got another way to handle the interference.

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding!

[Anonymous Coward]

Completely agree here. I believe the standard is to not to untwist more than .5" of cable. Any more than that, and you will have problems with NeXT.

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding!

[aaronl]

It's not just to combat interference. The twists are done in such a way to also limit crosstalk, and use the reflections in the pairs to speed up data flow, limit the effect of external interferance, and allowing higher line bandwidth and better SNRs. Shielding might even mess this up by reflecting signal back into the strands.

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding!

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's be clear here, the twists limit crosstalk from one PAIR to another, not the cross-talk from one wire to the other wire in the pair. As a matter of fact, the whole point of balanced transmission rests on the 'crosstalk' (coupling) between the two wires.

I really don't know what you mean by 'reflections in the pairs', and why you'd think those speed up data flow, usually reflections in a transmission line mean improper termination, and corrupt the signal.

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding!

[anethema]

The reason the twists are done, is because on the Rx end of the cable, each pair goes into a differential amplifier. This amplifies the difference in voltages on the two lines. Any noise/crosstalk/etc common to the two lines doesnt get amplified. It actually gets nulled out by the Common Mode Rejection Ratio(CMRR) of the amp (60db or more usually).

So, when you twist the wires together, you are ensuring that any noise that hits the wire, his both wires, in phase. This allows for very long runs. MANY techs work in this way. Nearly all serial techs, altough, some are implemented better than others.

I have no idea what you're talking about with the 'reflections in the pairs speeding up data flow'. AFAIK that makes no sense at all. You never want reflections in a transmission line.

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding!

[punkass]

Your cable will be bought out by Apple? (Yes, I know what near end cross talk is...)

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding!

[Anonymous Coward]

if you've got another way to handle the interference

Easy - simply wrap it in the tinfoil left over from making yourself a hat...

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding!

[Anonymous Coward]

"You never want reflections in a transmission line."
A hardware guy at work was just telling me how PCI signaling works. Something about supplying only half of the Vcc, and leaving the other end unterminated. The reflection coming back doubles the voltage to Vcc. Perhaps that'll make more sense to others than it did to me...

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding!

[spdt]

The twists are done to reduce the impedance in the transmission circuits. By having a pair of wires with different voltage potential very near to each other, you create a long, thin capacitor. This is where people get the term "crosstalk". By twisting the wires, you introduce more inductive reactance, which (ideally) cancels the capacitive reactance, and allows your data to transfer (near the resonant frequency of the circuit) with less attenuation.

Wow!

[RicochetRita]

Now I'll be able to cram even more cables between rack'd components! Oh happy day!

R3

Re:Wow!

[jrockway]

> Stuff that matters: circuit-breakers vacuum-cleaners coffee makers, calculators generators matching salt&pepper shakers

What about automatic circumcisers?

I thought the point was to twist it?

[BurpingWeezer]

How does this solve the problem of the wire becoming an antenna? The whole point of twisting the wire is to eliminate interference isn't it? An untwisted wire (actually pair) is the basic component to an antenna isn't it?

Wait a minute...

[catdevnull]

I'm no EE, but isn't the idea of CAT5/6 to have twisted pair to cancel out RF? It seems that sticking it against a large aluminum door frame [as pictured] would exacerbate the "antenna" you've created. Unless, of course, you're trying to create an ineresting "wireless" network.

Re:Wait a minute...

[Enigma_Man]

The twistedness actually is there to cancel out crosstalk. There isn't really any shielding for RF (either receiving or sending). The twistedness attempts to create pairs of wires that always appear to be 90 degrees in reference to the other wire. Any PCB designer knows that to get the least interference from lines, you try to cross them at 90 degrees, so they only "overlap" at a very small point. Parallel lines act like capacitors to eachother, and that's why we get crosstalk.

-Jesse

Re:Wait a minute...

[catdevnull]

Cool. Thanks.

Re:Wait a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Shut up before you spread your misinformed views further, making my life even more difficult when I have to explain the truth to people that listened to you first.

Re:Wait a minute...

[Monkelectric]

Any PCB designer knows

Shows what you know! Ive designed several PC boards and I have no clue about that.

Re:Wait a minute...

[Enigma_Man]

If you use Eagle, and use the auto-router for the traces, it is configured by default to attempt to do that for you. In the auto-router config, there is a drop-down that has the options "/ - \ | *" (there may be more, I forget) that give the preferred orientation of the traces. Usually the top board is - and the bottom board is |, hopefully resulting in nice 90 degree crossing lines.

-Jesse

Re:Wait a minute...

[Quantum Fizz]

Any PCB designer knows that to get the least interference from lines, you try to cross them at 90 degrees, so they only "overlap" at a very small point.

No, the twisted wires aren't twisted to cut capacitance between those two wires. It's the crosstalk between parallel channels that you want to cut down on. The twisted pair itself is basically a poor-man's transmission line, with characteristic impedance of 93 Ohm or thereabouts, depending on the twist pitch. Each twisted pair contains signal and ground (ie, it's return), and ideally should have zero net current flow within the pair (like coax). Ie, the current flow in the pair goes 'there and back again' for the signal/ground. By twisting them you effectively couple them together better, so they're less likely to crosstalk to the other pairs, either through capacitive or mutual inductuve coupling.

While there is definitely capacitance between the two twister pair lines, there is a roughly constant mutual inductance that lets it approximate a tramsission line w/ real impedance (ie, no filtering to first order). This is how typical 50-Ohm and 75-Ohm Coax cable works too, but they're better shielded and have a better-defined characteristic impedance. (Ie, you can form a TEM wave in coax, but not so well in twisted pair).

So by twisting you are forming a more-isolated transmission line channel, which will reduce crosstalk between the other twisted pairs, not between the two wires in the pair, as they are ultimately tied together.

Re:Wait a minute...

[Monkelectric]

Just like an EE to not know a joke when he see's one :)

Re:Wait a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

If he's an EE, I'm a 7 foot tall ballerina. The guy knows nothing, and using Eagle is a sign of a rank amateur.

Re:Wait a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, someone with a clue. It's obvious that /. is primarily a software site, not hardware, but the misinformation spouted by basement hobbyists as fact is disturbing.

Re:Wait a minute...

[catdevnull]

FWIW: I posted in the form of a question--I didn't know or pretend to. Thanks to those who didn't smack me down but set it straight (or tried to).

Everyday's a school day!

Re:Wait a minute...

[unitron]

" Each twisted pair contains signal and ground ..."

Sounds like a description of single-ended, which is what you have with co-axial cable. Wouldn't it make more sense for twisted pair to be operated as differential, so as to take advantage of common mode rejection?

Re:Wait a minute...

[catdevnull]

I *asked* a question. I'm so sorry my question added stress to your life. It must be difficult enough for you to be a complete moron.

Re:Wait a minute...

[Enigma_Man]

Using Eagle is the sign of I don't pirate things, and need a free tool to do small PCBs with that works under Linux and isn't "PCB" which sucks. Eagle does just fine for hobby work. I don't design PCBs at work, but I am an EE.

-Jesse

Has existed for some time in TV applications

[elgatozorbas]

Probably the purpose of this cable is to pass SHORT narrow sections, like the window shown. This also exists for TV applications e.g. to bring your satellite signal (dish on the roof) inside.

I do not read Japanese, but can imagine

1) this cable is rather expensive
2) the loses/reflections are higher than for normal cable

This is speculation, of course, but probably you don't want to make your entire home network from these cables...

Re:Has existed for some time in TV applications

[Enigma_Man]

I wonder if using one of these cables decreases the maximum length of the entire run possible... like, shortens the spec a bit. Or if they have a maximum number of possible "flat" cables you can use per run to keep it within spec.

-Jesse

Re:Has existed for some time in TV applications

[RollingThunder]

I believe that just having extra sockets reduces the signal, and thus the run length.

Wired vs. Wireless

[hey]

I like to see wired vs. wireless networking duking it out. Wireless has increased security and range lately. But then Wired has gigabit! Who will be the winner! Stay tuned.

Re:Wired vs. Wireless

[thunderbee]

Also, wired won't bathe you in very probably harmful microwave radiation.

Re:Wired vs. Wireless

[AviLazar]

When you said "duking it out" first thing that came to mind was "duke nukem forever" - and then i thought "i guess he really doesn't want to see this happen"

I would think, overall, wired would win out - not just from sheer bandwidth, but also the ability to not lose as many data packets - especially if your in a "noisy" area. My girlfriend and her roomates all use macs (blah) and they have a mac airport device...they also live a block away from Love park in Philly where they setup wifi - and now their airport is useless...i gave them an old netgear router i had (i want to help them with the airport, but that would probably require me to play with a mac)....

So to answer your question...i would think wired will still win - - though not in the portability "ahh yes, i feel like playing counterstrike from my porch today"

Re:Wired vs. Wireless

[j0shwalk3r]

I would like to see apples vs. oranges duking it out. An apple did inspire gravity, and has cool computers named after it. But orange does have a color named after it, and the juice. Who will win! Stay tuned.

Re:Wired vs. Wireless

[CharlieHedlin]

Well, wireless lans are at a much lower power output than cell phones, and they are typically operated much further from your brain (although with the wifi voip phones this doesn't apply).

If you are worried about wireless, move to the mountains or put on a tinfoil hat.

Re:Wired vs. Wireless

[AviLazar]

overrated how? Because i made a joke with my answer? God forbid - idiot.

Thick ethernet?

[gerardlt]

Did anyone else read the subject and think "Thick Ethernet? What do we want to bring that back for?"

Re:Thick ethernet?

[sharkey]

Because a 4 foot length of thickwire makes a damn fine LART, particulary if you have a broken terminator on the end of it.

Re:Thick ethernet?

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah and what good is a cable that's only 1.4mm long!

Re:Thick ethernet?

[Cmdr TECO]

Can you imagine how hard it's going to be to screw teeny little taps into a 1.4mm thick cable?

CAT5=UTP: UNSHIELDED Twisted Pair (n/t)

[Demon-Xanth]

Mod parent up. Mod grandparent down.

Re: Coolness...

[OldeTimeGeek]

You won't have to worry about the dust. You can't use this anyway.

The National Electrical Code requires that wiring in a plenum has a special teflon cladding that won't burn and fill the ducts with smoke in the case of a fire. I didn't see this mentioned in the article...

In the interest of fairness

[syntap]

Here's a link to the page translated from French to German, to include some of our European members that too often get overlooked.

Re:In the interest of fairness

[Anonymous Coward]

Cunt.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[lukewarmfusion]

Define "normal" cable prices. I realize that "internet" pricing should be cheaper, but when I went out looking for a good place to buy bulk cables (30+), I couldn't find a single retail place with a reasonable price.

7 ft. Cat-6, blue:
Best Buy - $17

L-Com - $8 (as low as $7 if you're buying quantity)

I have no affiliation with L-Com, and I'm sure there are others out there like this, but I try to spread the word when I have a good experience with a vendor. I ended up ordering 30 3-ft cables for just over $2 each. The price was fantastic and the service was great.

The story's dated Friday.

[MurkyWater]

This is Slashdot it's not groundbreaking.

I believe it does.

[necrodeep]

Most of the Flat wire designs I have seen actually 'twist' the pairs within the design.

If you look at: http://www.decorp.com/product/data.htm (which was posted prior) showing another design you can actually see the pairs 'twisting' within the flat cable. Actually from the whitepapers I have read the noise on the line should be less with this type of design. I just wonder how practical it is for buisnesses to run in existing infratructure.

price

[p373]

Their site lists the cable shown in the window picture at 2,520 yen, or $24 USD. That's a bit much for such a short piece of cable. Maybe the price will go down in the future, or maybe they are the Japanese version of Monster Cable (a huge rip-off)

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[interiot]

The problem I've had with online-cable sites is that inevitably shipping plays a big part in the price (L-com will sell you 4 7ft cat5e cables for $3.29 each, plus approx $2.00 shipping EACH). But the shipping cost is also highly variable, eg. some sites include more of the product cost in the shipping cost, others less. So, if you want to buy 3 cables, you should get it from one place, and if you want 10 cables, you should buy from an entirely different place. I wish there was a meta-website that did all these calculations for you...

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[aaronl]

Home Depot, Lowes, sometimes places like Sam's Club, BJ's, Costco. Most DIY type places. Any decent internet hardware store. Sounds like you're not ordering bulk cable anyway, but pre-crimped cable. 1000' for around 70$ for cat5e. Price goes up/down depending on if you need plenum, cat5 or cat 6, etc.

So basically, you paid 60$ for 90' of wire, a markup of around 1000%, or closer to 500% after you buy a whole mess of RJ-45 connectors. Of course, then you don't have 3' cables, you have whatever you need.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[way2trivial]

sheesh
7ft 350MHz CAT5e Patch Cable 4PR Molded Snagless Blue
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/mas terid=228354/search=cat5%20blue%20snagless
Price range: $1.36 - $11.99 from 19 Sellers

Glass is thiner.

[Kenja]

I use fiber optic gigabit. Its far thiner then the stuff they're talking about.

Re:Glass is thiner.

[Anonymous Coward]

I use fiber optic gigabit. Its far thiner then the stuff they're talking about.

We are so proud of you. Now go roll over your fiber optic cable with a chair. Now bend it around corners. What? It doesn't work anymore?

Re:Glass is thiner.

[Anonymous Coward]

I call bullshit

At my university we used fiber everywhere (down to the network card). I've bent it around furniture, rolled over it with a chair, etc and never had one broken. The only cable that has gone bad on me was in storage for a few months, under a bunch of things that must've cracked it. That's over 10 years BTW. The last 5 in a lab with 5-10 computers.

Likewise I've had UTP cables break on me (not counting those whose tabs break off). So, it's no difference.

Hell, the fact that you can check a fibre cable with a FLASHLIGHT, or even the overhead lights, makes it much nicer to work with anyway.

Of course, costs, etc, may be different, but as a user, it's just nice.

Re:Glass is thiner.

[Anonymous Coward]

We used that at the last place I worked.

Still don't know how that backhoe got up to the fifth floor.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[way2trivial]

yeah.. pricegrabber.
as you window shop, click "add to shopping cart"
on individual item pages.
when you are done, they'll show you total cost ordering from multiple merchants, and total cost ordering all from the same merchant (if possible)

ONLY shortcomming, is that is always assumes a ship quantity of one per item on list- but it's still very close to your desire.

Because there's all this talk of interference...

[kennyj449]

The cables are supposedly "reinforced" with Aluminum. It's possible that this means that there is a thin layer of aluminum sandwiching the wiring, or backing the insulation. This would effectively shield the cables from outside interference, if this is a concern.

As for crosstalk, though I could most certainly be wrong here, if no two adjacent wires carry a single, the other wires will effectively diminish crosstalk (think about 80-pin ATA-66/100/133 cables.)

I'm no expert on RF, but I'd suspect that either mechanism alone could do the trick.

I can't think

[StarKruzr]

of a reason why you wouldn't be able to use shielded cable with Ethernet, can you?

Re:I can't think

[dunc78]

One reason is that there is no place on an RJ-11 connector to ground the shield. The pins are all for differential signals and the body is made of plastic.

Re:I can't think

[spectre_240sx]

Well, if RJ-11 was the common connector for ethernet, then you might be right. RJ-45 has taken that spot, however, and I've seen quite a few grounded RJ-45 connectors.

Re:I can't think

[petecarlson]

Because it costs more and is a pain to work with. Now for outside runs to an AP I use STP which is shielded and should be grounded at the point it enters the building (this is code in Baltimore). For inside runs there is little reason to use STP.

Re:I can't think

[dunc78]

My bad, mixed up the phone connectors with the ethernet connectors. Anyhow, seeing as about 99% of the RJ-45 connectors that I have seen in use (being conservative because I can't honestly say that I have ever seen a grounded RJ-45 connector) do not have grounded connectors it seems that it is pretty well accepted that in most environments, shielded cat-5 is not needed.

Re:I can't think

[spectre_240sx]

That I can certainly agree with. Most of the time UTP is fine for the job. There are situations, however, when STP is very helpful. For instance, the local internet service provider here uses it on all of their fixed point wireless installs.

Oh, and for informational purposes:
grounded rj45 connector

Re: Coolness...

[Anonymous Coward]

> We always run stuff in the plenum.

You mean like a Prince Albert? What kind of a freak are you?

Re: Coolness...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm still not sure I'm okay with the potential for interfreaence in these... it's just too thin... I'd love to see how many u can stack on top of one another before they break.

As long as the cable is still composed of twisted pairs (which they must be to be considered category 5), interference shouldn't be an issue. This is why cat5 is not shielded.

Beware - only Cat 5

[fedders]

I'm in the category cable industry and would be weary of using this cable for Gigabit Ethernet. The release only mentions that the cable is rated at Cat 5 (Not Cat 5e) which means it is only good for speeds up to 100 Mb/s. You need a true (verified) Cat 5e cable to run 1000 Mb/s (Gigabit) ethernet.

That said, this would be find for most home networks.

Re:Beware - only Cat 5

[quis]

Who would actually need gigabit for home use? 802.11g is plenty fast enough for streaming video around no? What's more if you're using cable in a server room or something then I don't see that it matters so much that it's thinner than normal cat5 cable. Another slashvertisment?

Re:Beware - only Cat 5

[tkam1]

Actually I read the Japanese version and they call Cat5e "Enhanced category 5"/ "enhansudo kategori 5" and that's what's written in the press release. I think that this word is so technically advanced, that this word is not yet in the formal Japanese dictionary. In the tech books, yes, but translation sites probably won't pick it up. Pretty soon they'll be speaking english but with a Japanese accent.

Re:Beware - only Cat 5

[imkookoo]

Several places in Japan offer gigabit Internet to consumers (for relatively cheap... Something like $50/month). It's not a dedicated line, but of course since all users don't usally use the line at the same time, you don't want to restrict the users because of that.

Re:Beware - only Cat 5

[Matt_Bennett]

Seriously- where do you get this? The spec for gigabit ethernet (check it for yourself- Clause 40- you can get it for free from the IEEE website) has no mention of "Cat 5e" at all- it specifically states that gigabit ethernet must: Support operation over 100 meters of Category 5 balanced cabling as defined in 40.7 - in 40.7 they state that the bandwidth of the signal is approximately 80 MHz- about the same as 100 Mbit, except that all four pairs are used for transmit and recieve.

Re:Beware - only Cat 5

[unitron]

"...and would be weary of using this cable for Gigabit Ethernet.

I don't see why this cable should tire you out any more than any other kind but I can see where you might be wary of it.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[coachvince]

The only real excuse for not making your own cables is not knowing the 568A/568B wiring patterns. And now I offer you a solution for that... http://www.cafepress.com/568a568b

jinjin boki shimashta

[Anonymous Coward]

dozo.

Re:First Post!

[Anonymous Coward]

second place is the first loser

NO FEAR

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[lukewarmfusion]

Making 35 3-foot cables sucks. I made my own cables to run from the office to the bay (about 70 ft each), but I wasn't interested in the hassle of crimping 2-3 foot pieces.

Big in Japan

[rastakid]

Ohhh, you're begin in Japan.. tonight! Big in Japan!

Power?

[PhraudulentOne]

I want to know if I can run power over ethernet using this new cable. We do Fixed Wireless installations a lot, and right now we have to drill into the house, or find some other sneaky way of getting inside. It would be nice if we could use this stuff for a short hop through a window and then get outdoor-rated cable for the rest of the run.

It's not the size that counts....

[affliction]

It's how you use it.

It's all about the fire in the wire.

Similar Stuff

[klinsi]

already exists as coaxial cable. at least here in germany you get that at your every major home-depot-clone.

What i'm looking for (without any success yet, that is) is highly flexible ethernet cable, braided wires, stp, cat5 for 100Mbit, as carry-with-me cable for networking to be plugged between my laptop and "the wall".

Personally, i don't like the standard patch cables, because they are so awfully stark/tenacious.

what i'm looking for should be more like microphone cable.

Any ideas out there?

(oh, yes, i am able to put on the RJ45s myself.)

Re:Similar Stuff

[cthulhu11]

I think the adjective you were after there is "stiff". Did your laptop come with a cable? My ~1999 Dell came with a crappy 3com pcmcia ethernet card and a very thin & flexible RJ45 cable that folds up into a small bundle. It's probably not "rated" for 100mbit, but works fine with it, and I've not seen any operational difference between it and a Cat[5-6] cable.

Costs

[JMan1865]

From the press release:

10m - 3,600 yen
20m - 6,000 yen
30m - 8,400 yen
100m - 24,000 yen

Window Kit - 2,400 yen

So, if you buy in bulk (100m) - it comes down to around $.70 per foot.

Not cheap, but for the niche application, not obscenely expensive.

depends

[Anonymous Coward]

fitting a wall jack kinda destroys decor

sure you can recess the box in the wall and bury the cable in the plaster. if you want to redecorate afterwards......

fitting one surface with cable in trunking doesn't make quite such a mess but you still are left with the ugly trunking on the surface (and if you remove it you will be left with all the mounting holes or places where adhesive has ripped off the paint.

running out through windows under carpets etc is usefull on temporary installs where you don't want to totally mess up the decor with power tools.

DVI?

[Coppit]

What I want is a thin DVI cable with a detactable connector. My stinkin' contractor put a conduit in for me, but it's 1" in diameter and has a 90 degree bend. :(

Re:DVI?

[Pinback]

Would a HDMI cable fit? There are adapters to and from HDMI to DVI.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[Moofie]

How much does it cost my boss to have me sitting here crimping cables vs. sending a PO?

Sure, if I need one or two, it's no big deal. But what if I need 200?

And to whom should I be making my excuse? Is there some Authority who decides what is and is not worth my time? If it's you, please give me your contact information so I can decide whether I should bring my lunch to work tomorrow or not.

My WLAN cable

[Timo_UK]

is even thinner...

Re: Coolness...

[Leebert]

The National Electrical Code requires that wiring in a plenum has a special teflon cladding that won't burn

PVC itself is fairly fire retardant, but it releases Hydrogen Chloride when heat is applied to it. Plenum rated cable burns, but it doesn't release HCl when it does so, and thus is required to be used in environments where air will be circulated.

Spectrum issues

[grahamsz]

We simply don't have the bandwith right now to do everything over wireless. The only way we're ever likely the have the bandwidth we need is to keep moving into even higher frequency ranges.

Unfortunately as the frequency goes up the signal is less likely to bend around obstaces and work well indoors.

Plus new wire research can have implications for long distance carriers and short connections inside your computer, since those things cant really go wireless either.

Small DVI connectors

[Game Genie]

12" PowerBooks have a mini DVI port that is roughly 1/2" wide and come packaged with a mini DVI -> DVI dongle. I don't know if this is a standard connector or not, but it would certainly be worth looking into if you need to cram DVI cable into such a tight conduit.

Plagiarism?

[kmcrober]

The submitter's comment seemed familiar to me. Gizmodo posted this yesterday:

"Flat network cables aren't anything new, but I'm pretty sure ones like this are. Japanese accessory king Elecom today announced the "LD-VAPF/SV05" network cabling, coming in at 1.4mm thick."

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/peripherals/14mm-th ick-gigabit-ethernet-cable-035823.php

Since most Gizmodo entries aren't copied to Slashdot, I'm assuming it's not the same person. Maybe I'm wrong, and if I'm not, it's not that big a deal... but is it so hard to write your own copy? There's no excuse for stealing prose from another site.

now my apartment...

[Axis of Weasel]

now my studio apartment will be ~49.6mm bigger!!

sweeet

Re: Coolness...

[Anonymous Coward]

That makes sense.. However, the GP mentioned Teflon coatings should be used in plenums. When Teflon is heated sufficiently, it releases HF, which is no better than HCl...

Where you can get these cables

[Shinzaburo]

Just in case you are wondering where you can get these cables, they should be available for pre-order from our site within 24 hours:

http://shinza.com/

Availability is expected within 3-4 weeks.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[KUHurdler]

That depends, do we factor in the time you waste surfing slashdot, instead of making cables?

Get back to work.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[coachvince]

If your time is too expensive for you to crimp 200 cables, it's probably too expensive for you to run and plug in 200 cables.

I haven't checked it out, but one poster mentioned a markup of 1000% for premade cables.

If you have a person on staff who will be installing cables (and, in most cases, going room to room, and probably installing switches, and plugging the cables into the equipment) that person should be the one to make cables up. Of course, they should also be the person who checks the "store-bought" cables to make sure they're good before installing. Or is that not cost-effective?

As far as to which Authority to make your excuse, it is you. If you feel that making cables is beneath you, or your time is too valuable, fine.

Sorry if I made you feel defensive, but I'm the type to voice my opinions, and I don't preface them with IMHO. That's just an apology in advance.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[Moofie]

You are not the boss of me.

Re:Useful [Somewhat Offtopic]

[Moofie]

"The only real excuse for not making your own cables is not knowing the 568A/568B wiring patterns"

This statement is patently false, and that's what I was arguing against. I know the wiring patterns perfectly well, and that's not the reason I don't make cables.

I DON'T run cable when I can avoid it. I DO buy boxes o' patch cables so I don't have to make them. If you're paying 1000%, time to look for a different supplier.

Re: Coolness...

[Mattintosh]

No... Teflon is not the substance you're looking for.

Teflon is used for low-capacitance ratings, not necessarily for plenum cable.

Plenum cable is expensive, though. CAT5e is about $70/1000ft. Plenum CAT5e is $170/1000ft. And if you're wondering how to tell the difference just by looking at the jacket, well, you'll see some markings on it... plenum jacketting says "CMP" or "CL2P" or "CL3P", while non-plenum jackets say "CMR" or "CL2R" or "CL3R". And if you see one that says "FMP" or the like, that's fire-alarm-rated cable (and it's probably red).

Re: Coolness...

[Anonymous Coward]

But its not twisted pairs, its 8 wires running parallel to each other, like an ATA cable. And ATA cables only work because every other one is a ground so that the transmitting lines don't interfere with each other. So, technically, this isn't CAT 5 (or 5e or 6 or anything else classified by the IEEE)

Re:UTP doesn't have shielding! Not necessarily!

[Anonymous Coward]

Look up S-UTP or S/UTP. It only has a single shield instead of one for every pair as on STP. Note that e.g. in Switzerland consumer stores are generally selling S-UTP for at home (less e-smog).

Re:reflections speeding up data flow

[acaspis]

I have no idea what you're talking about with the 'reflections in the pairs speeding up data flow'.

Most probably, they have reinvented faster than light communication, but they daren't claim it.

Rental unit?

[Psychofreak]

If closing dors is a problem then I must assume that you live in a rental thatdoes not allow wiring to be pulled. Take a tri to your local home improvement store and look at what networking hardware is avaliable. For about US $100 I was able to pull 2 phone lines and 2 network drops to 3 bedrooms and the kitchen(8 new lines of both).

Then only special tool I required was a fishtape. I already had the utility knife, drill with 3/4" spade bit, and screwdriver.

The RJ-45 connectors that go into the wall do not require special tools to assemble. I still went to Radio Shack for patch cables. Home Depot charges 2x as much. I COULD have bought the connector tool and gone blind reciting "Orangewhite orange greenwhite blue bluewhite..." but the tool is almost US$50 for the cheep one!

Since I am only using 2 of the drops I pulled (now at least) Getting the tool to make my own patch cables is too expensive. If I get more than 3 network devices at the same time I will probably get the tool and break even vs premade cables. That would be 6 new cables of various length.

In any hoot, I'll have to upgrade way beyond my 4 port 10-base hub before that happens. The point is I'll be done, and never need to pull new cables again.

Oh, per my eletrician consultant leave about a foot of slack in the wall at each end so you can replace the ends several times when they go bad without pulling new wire.

Have fun!

Phil

Re:Rental unit?

[headwes]

RadioShack has a crimping tool for only $34. Catalog number is 279-405. I've had mine for a few years now--no complaints.

Re:Rental unit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I am currently in an apartment, and would not want to go through that hastle even if they would let me. We are planning on moving in a month or so, and when we buy our house, her brother is an electrition that I will force to do everything I need lol... But thanks for the tips and some prices :)

no, the question is,

[way2trivial]

HOW THIS STUFF FOLDS UP

thankyou, I'll be here til tuesday...

Hand Translation (yes, I'm a geek)

[TheoMurpse]

OK I did a hand translation of the entire thing, but then, no matter how hard I tried, I could not get around /.'s lameness filter, which is, ironically, lame. So, after going so far as to replace the model names with English words until I got tired of that, and still /. not allowing my post, I just stuck the translation on my blog. I apologize, and am not looking for random hits to my blog, which is itself about studying abroad in Japan.

http://studyinjapan.blogspot.com/